Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

[mjj]

Hey Everyone,


I just found your site while searching for a possible move to Hawaii and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys on this subject. I just got back from a week long trip to Oahu (my first and only real vacation) and I had such an incredible time that I'm actually pretty depressed to be back in California. The people are the main reason I miss it. My friend and I met so many nice people from all over, even the locals were nice to us, freely gave out their numbers to hang out. Had a blast at the Karaoke bar and they wouldn’t even let us chip it to help pay. People smile and greet you like they really meant it. I've never been a very social person or rather I've never been able to be a very social person but over there it was so easy, people are nice to you first so you have problem being friendly in return. I found the entertainment and alcohol to actually be a bit cheaper and with the friendly service you don’t even mind tipping.

I'm half white / half Filipino but I look 1000% white, so it doesn’t really help anything and didn’t find any trouble with the locals like I've been reading up on. I was also traveling with a pinoy that actually looks pinoy so that may be the reason (maybe they thought he was local).

Furthermore, wow, I have never seen so many beautiful Asian girls in one place at one time in my life and from what I hear the stream is never ending. (I generally date asian girls anyway, white girls don’t like me because I don’t drive big trucks, motorcycles, etc, you know the general stereotypes that put those girls out of reach). I find the Japanese girls particularly intriguing and I don’t know why.

By the time it was time to go I couldn’t wait to get home and start looking for a job on Oahu, get rid of things I don’t need and start taking Japanese classes. But, after reading the forums for a few hours I have become deflated as I guess things are how I thought they were. So I wanted to get some feed back from you guys on the reality of Hawaii and what you think my prospects might be.

I'm 25, single, no real attachments to California (though was born here). I only see my parents a few times a year anyway so that’s not a problem. I currently make around $65,000 a year running IT for small companies with 7 years experience and I can do pretty much any IT related job. I have about 30K in the bank from a home sale, not that I'm really willing to spend it all to go broke and come home to the mainland if that’s a real risk?

So my questions are:

1. Did I just get lucky and meet some good people who treated me nice because I was a tourist (and a haoles traveling with an Asian looking person)? Or are people generally this friendly to everyone? Would it be different if I lived there?

2. Are jobs really that hard to come by? even worse if your not from there and are clearly white? Any one know about IT jobs in particular?

The idea was pretty much dead in my mind until I read some of the just do it posts so I wanted to get your guys feedback before I give up the idea and get bummed, the bottom line is, if Hawaii really is as unwelcoming to mainland "invaders" (particularly white guys), then that kinda cancels the reasons I wanted to live there.

Please post any and all thoughts on the subject negative or positive hit me with the raw truth.

Thanks a lot.

Mike

[kamuelakea]

So my questions are:

1. Did I just get lucky and meet some good people who treated me nice because I was a tourist (and a haoles traveling with an Asian looking person)? Or are people generally this friendly to everyone? Would it be different if I lived there?

2. Are jobs really that hard to come by? even worse if your not from there and are clearly white? Any one know about IT jobs in particular?

Mike

Yes and Yes. Hawaii is like anywhere else. Read the police beat in the daily online papers. Murder, rape, highest in property crime, highest in Meth use, etc etc. You got the good and the bad.

As far as "locals" versus "Haole", you just have to understand what it is. It is an attempt by the 90% of Hawaii population of immigrants to try to feel "more local" den da odda guy. The only way they can do that is at the expense of someone else. It is not limited to "local" and "haole". 3rd Generation Filipinos will tease and demean newly arrived filipino immigrants regarding their accent etc. Kama'aina Haoles love to publically attack malahini haoles. Of course "Asians" in general try to morph into pseudo-Hawaiians to anyone ignorant enough to buy it. Once you understand the big picture, you won't take it as personally.

As far as income. You would be in the top 5% in income at 65,000. And with 25 year olds, you would be in the top .1%. Expect to take a whopping pay cut with increased costs for food and energy relative to California.

[1stwahine]

Aloha and Welcome Mike! You have a good persona about you anyway. People can feel one's heart from a mile away. Hawai'i is SPECIAL. Most folks in general are caring and will show you what is the true meaning of Aloha and Love. There is still the those out there who are grouches...they are minimal. Das Life anywhere you go.

Life is what you make of it. Keep positive, hang around people who will not bring you down. Especially, people who will make you laugh and smile all the time. Reality ~ jobs. As long as you have skills and heart to survive and are willing to make the sacrafice to succeed...you will. No matter where you go.

Good Luck and God Bless

Auntie Lynn

[Whitepoint3rchum]

Hey Everyone,


...I'm actually pretty depressed to be back in California.






WTF? Seriously sir, California is no placed to be depressed about living. Trust me. California compared to the vast majority of other states is HEAVEN.

[manoasurfer123]

Furthermore, wow, I have never seen so many beautiful Asian girls in one place at one time in my life and from what I hear the stream is never ending. (I generally date asian girls anyway, white girls don’t like me because I don’t drive big trucks, motorcycles, etc, you know the general stereotypes that put those girls out of reach). I find the Japanese girls particularly intriguing and I don’t know why.

Aloha Mike...
I agree 100% Hawaii's wahines are beautiful!:p
Is there something with that name mike that seems to love the local girls so much out there? Another HT poster Mike Lowery seems to have the same views at times. http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=9689:rolleyes:

good luck on finding a job here

[Supercub]

My advice is this: do NOT judge Hawaii based on this message board. People like to discuss controversial issues, and those controversial issues often involve race and "local" versus malahini. Take it with a grain of salt.

Your week in O'ahu is almost certainly not a 100% accurate reflection on life in Hawaii. You were on vacation after all. However, your experiences do reflect the character of Hawaii to a certain extent.

[pzarquon]

Mike,

First of all, know that Kamuelaka's outlook on life is pretty much all race-based (review his posting history for some context), and that many if not most of us disagree strenuously with his point of view. It's one that you should be aware of, as you'd easily run into other Kamuelaka's here, but just know that it's not representative. The "local haole" I know are very helpful of "malihini haole," the Filipinos I know help the newcomers from the Philippines, and so on.

IMHO, life isn't all about getting ahead at the expense of others, attacking and dominating, and the like. Though I'm sure some "natural order" folks feel that way.

But I'll tell you one thing, if you lookfor racism and conflict, you'll find it. It'd be naive to say it doesn't exist. And if there's one thing Kamuelaka says that even I say, it's that Hawaii is very cognizant and open about race. I'd say that differs from racism, but folks can disagree. We talk, joke, and yes, fight about it often, but that's 'cause it's right there. It makes some folks uncomfortable. I doubt these conversations can happen as easily in a homogenous community.

Anyway. My main point: vacation Hawaii is not everyday life Hawaii. If you stayed a week, but only saw the sights and ate at all the nice places, you have no idea what life is like for those who have to earn a living here. If you stayed in Waikiki, and drove up to Haleiwa, and saw the Arizona Memorial and Polynesian Cultural Center, I'm sure you had a good time, but you're definitely on track with your concerns, because you had nothing to worry about except having a good time and ogling Asian girls.

You were on vacation. In which case, yes, your Hawaii trip was sheltered and naive. Yes, you were treated differently because you were visiting. The visitor industry wanted your money, the locals knew you were leaving. :p

Everyday Hawaii life is like night and day compared to the tourist's life. People can spend two hours a day in traffic. Work two or three jobs to pay $1,800 rent on a small, old house way out of town, only dreaming of the day they can save up enough money to buy a $600,000 home. In addition to housing, we pay more than most for gas, for groceries... like everywhere else, we stress about public education, incompetent and corrupt politicians, overdevelopment and failing infrastructure... we lament that we can't provide opportunities for our own kids, and yes, lament the influx of outsiders. I live in paradise, but have to force myself to appreciate that sometimes. "Making a living" is one of the biggest obstacles to "quality of life," and even locals sometimes don't have the opportunity to enjoy their home. A decade ago, I had realized I hadn't been to the beach in years.

(Having kids knocked sense into me. If I'm going to struggle to raise them here, they're going to know why we're here. Otherwise, we might as well be someplace else.)

Does that make you automatically the devil? Not to everyone. Are you automatically out for being white? Not to everyone. The harder you work to understand life here, the more folks will be understanding of your perspective. But we've seen it thousands of times before, and you're bound to get pushback. (Let's just say your views on Asian girls and their "accessibility" are also familiar, and similiarly naive. But that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.) Don't fight it. Listen to it.

You could do it, but it ain't easy. So at least you've taken the first step and stuck your neck out here. Good for that.

Now, you say you do IT management for a small company with about seven years experience. I'm in about the same boat, born and raised here, and I'd just about sell my left arm for $65k. Those salaries exist here, to be sure, and there are still a lot of overpaid IT directors I'm sure. But I'll tell you this -- that "low unemployment" you keep hearing about exists primarily at the minimum-wage end. There's a lot of pressure and competition from mid-level careers on up. People with "manager" in their title at one job still hold down a second job somewhere else in order to pay the mortgage.

As Kamuelaka notes, you're doing well for your field. Well, take any field, and knock it down 20 percent. That's about where Hawaii's at. Why? Because people are willing to work for less, given the competition.

So my first piece of advice? Find your job before you get on that plane.

Find a place to live, too.

You have $30K saved up, and that's great. If only all Hawaii dreamers had that in the bank. Honestly, you're ahead of the game right there.

But you're smart to not to want to burn that all up in a fool's errand. You could hop the next jet over, get a small Waikiki studio, and burn through your savings 'til you get established, but you don't have to. People do recruit from the mainland, and if you have the background you say you do, your chances could be worse. Yes, you could find a job in a month, but it could take six. So start your hunting there.

But spend that time doing more research, too. I'm glad you found HawaiiThreads.com, because you'll get more honest and varied answers here on your quest than just about anywhere else I know. You can buy books, you can find other Hawaii dreamers to cheer you on, but interacting with the people who are actually living, and not vacationing, here, is quite valuable.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Pzarquon said it all perfectly, IMHO.

[tutusue]

[...]Work two or three jobs to pay $1,800 rent on a small, old house way out of town, only dreaming of the day they can save up enough money to buy a $600,000 home.[...]
And that $600k probably gets them the same small, old house way out of town that they'd been renting!

[Miulang]

Welcome to HT, Mike:
What everyone else has stated here is true to some extent. How true it is for you would depend on how you react to what others think.

One thing that is not just opinion is this annual study (http://starbulletin.com/2006/09/29/news/story04.html)of what people in Hawai'i earn. The latest report was issued last Thursday, and it indicates that while people in service industry (i.e., hospitality) make wages that exceed those of people working in comparable jobs elsewhere, professionals consistently make less (by about 20%) than their counterparts on the Mainland. So if you want to be a service technician, you probably won't have too much of a problem finding a job; but if you want a supervisory or higher position, you will have a rougher go at finding a job, and it will definitely pay less than a comparable job on the Mainland, unless you work for a large multinational company and can transfer to a comparable position in Hawai'i. Larger ocmpanies (like IBM) will transfer you and give you a cost of living allowance to offset any decreases in pay you might otherwise receive.

Miulang

[manoasurfer123]

I've worked for the state now for 7 years... Even If I continue in my "Technical" position... I still won't be making 65,000 per year in 20 years at the current pay scale that the State has set.:mad:

It's not an IT position... however, IT professionals here in Hawaii seem to be a dime a dozen and they don't get paid what they should.

[tikiyaki]

mjj, I'm glad you made it over here from TikiCentral.com . As you can see, the folks here are really helpful with the "reality" of living in Hawaii.
It ain't vacation, and those 50's Waikiki Postcards and Shag paintings look great, but they're not real.
Take the people here's advice, they know what's up.

Don't be discouraged by it, learn and make educated decisions.
Like I told you over there, this is a very useful forum for finding out the real skinny.

Good Luck, and Aloha.

HT'ers...sorry, but I sent another "I wanna move to Hawaii" person here.
I think people with the dream are best served by getting the truth from you guys. :)

[tutusue]

Personally, I think PZ's post #7 above should be made part of the FAQ...the 'So ya wanna move to Hawaii' section! ;)

And, no, I'm not being facetious as I, too, had the same dream many, many years ago. I made it come true and have never regretted it for even one second.

ETA: MJJ...as I see it, your major stumbling block will the the $65k job. The cost of living in so much of California is sky high that moving to Hawaii may not come as much of a financial shock to you.

The question becomes...Can you live and are you willing to live on less? If so, can you psychologically accept a lower income without becoming resentful? I'm going thru these same issues with my daughter right now. She's quite a bit older than you, grew up in Hawaii, attended college on the mainland and never came home because she found a career in SoCal. Twenty-one years later she's now homesick and wants to come back. She can afford to return but the big question I keep asking her is can her ego handle the cut in pay. She says yes! I've asked her to do a lot of soul searching. As much as I want her back I want even more for her to have all of her ducks in a row! Her passion is traveling. That will be impacted by her return. Only she can decide how much of a hit she's willing to take in that area before she starts feeling resentful.

Me? Hawaii was always my ultimate travel destination so I solved the back and forth expense by moving here!

[craigwatanabe]

I'm living my dream here in Hawaii. Stay out of congested Honoluu and off of Oahu for that matter if you want to live paradise. Yes gas prices are higher here on the Big Island but the quality of life is closer to Paradise as one could imagine. Very laid back lifestyle out here, no urban chaos, just real folks who live life one day at a time.

[manoasurfer123]

I'm living my dream here in Hawaii. Stay out of congested Honoluu and off of Oahu for that matter if you want to live paradise. Yes gas prices are higher here on the Big Island but the quality of life is closer to Paradise as one could imagine. Very laid back lifestyle out here, no urban chaos, just real folks who live life one day at a time.
However, Not much jobs in the IT industry on the Big Island.

Not, nearly as many jobs at all that I feel worth taking a pay cut for! Otherwise I'd be there already!

[mjj]

ETA: MJJ...as I see it, your major stumbling block will the the $65k job. The cost of living in so much of California is sky high that moving to Hawaii may not come as much of a financial shock to you.


You are right, I'm not very shocked by cost of living as I live in South Orange County which is pretty expensive, most people here too cannot afford to own anything more than 4 walls and roof here either. Also the gas prices really were nothing we have seen before here.

I am putting alot of thought in to the money issue. I guess really the answer to that kind of depends on the answers of my original questions. If Hawaii is really as special as I got the feeling it was then I'd venture to say I could live with a pay cut. Based on how many thoughfull and warm replies I have already received from two different message boards I'd say it might just be true! That says alot about the people, or atleast about the people who frequent these boards.

Thank a lot.

[MadAzza]

I'm half white / half Filipino but I look 1000% white

Well, you already have the odd idea (only in Hawaii!) that "white" is an ethnic group, so you should fit right in.

I've worked for the state now for 7 years... Even If I continue in my "Technical" position... I still won't be making 65,000 per year in 20 years at the current pay scale that the State has set.:mad:

Oh, you're angry about that, are you?

If I had a job where I had time to post to Hawaii Threads 27 times a day during my shift, all at the taxpayers' expense, I wouldn't be bitching about it, at least not in public. I'd be ashamed to.

You could get out of that cushy job and compete in the private sector, but then you'd have to actually work. Probably not an attractive alternative.

[mjj]

Well, you already have the odd idea (only in Hawaii!) that "white" is an ethnic group, so you should fit right in.

Is it not true that in the context we are speaking that it doesnt matter what my background is? I look like a "Haole" and will be treated as such.

[MadAzza]

Is it not true that in the context we are speaking that it doesnt matter what my background is? I look like a "Haole" and will be treated as such.

Yes, it matters. It furthers the idea that "white" is an ethnic group. Otherwise, why mention the Filipino part? (Rhetorical question.)

[mjj]

Yes, it matters. It furthers the idea that "white" is an ethnic group. Otherwise, why mention the Filipino part? (Rhetorical question.)

This is true, that part really doesnt matter either when it comes down to what we are talking about here.

[helen]

By the way what sort of sub-field of IT are interested in? Programming? System Administration? Networking? User Support? Setting up desktops on people's desk? Troubleshooting hardware?

[tutusue]

You are right, I'm not very shocked by cost of living as I live in South Orange County which is pretty expensive, most people here too cannot afford to own anything more than 4 walls and roof here either.[...]
My daughter lives in Irvine. I'm guessing you're a bit further south. I'm originally from Laguna Beach. The cost of living there may be a bit higher than Hawaii, esp. factoring in the property taxes. I know someone who lives in an older, small, charming, bungalow style 3/2, 5 blocks up a hill from the beach. Her prop. taxes are $14,000./year. Unbelievable. Even if I sold my Hawaii condo I couldn't afford to return to Laguna. My daughter's prop taxes in Irvine are $5000+/year.

As a couple of my clients and I told my daughter...it's about quality of life. That's why I live in Hawaii and I think that's her main reason for wanting to move back. I know I was willing to make financial sacrifices to live in Hawaii. The truth is, those sacrifices are what led to the increase in my quality of life. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, tho'!

[Mahi Waina]

Anybody that is making an issue out of your ethnicity is not likely to have much effect on your ability to make a living, so just ignore them. Beware of the bosses/owners/managers (haole or otherwise) with the attitude that they can pay you for less than what you are worth, or work you to death, because they are doing you a favor by giving you a job in Hawaii. True, the competition is greater, but that never seems to apply to their compensation! It's those buzzards, not the locals, that drove me away.

I wish some of the more vitriolic anti-haole posters here realized that we have a lot more in common as victims of rich and/or power mad sociopaths than I had in common with my ex-bosses, who didn't treat me any better though we were of the same ethnic extraction.

[Jonah K]

You are right, I'm not very shocked by cost of living as I live in South Orange County which is pretty expensive, most people here too cannot afford to own anything more than 4 walls and roof here either. Also the gas prices really were nothing we have seen before here.
Ah.... South Orange County... no wonder you want to move to Hawai'i. :cool: If you aren't too concerned about buying a house, it's probably a little cheaper to live in Hawai'i. Here's a "cost-of-living" calculator to play around with:
http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html?type=to


Furthermore, wow, I have never seen so many beautiful Asian girls in one place at one time in my life and from what I hear the stream is never ending. (I generally date asian girls anyway, white girls don’t like me because I don’t drive big trucks, motorcycles, etc, you know the general stereotypes that put those girls out of reach). I find the Japanese girls particularly intriguing and I don’t know why.

By the time it was time to go I couldn’t wait to get home and start looking for a job on Oahu, get rid of things I don’t need and start taking Japanese classes. But, after reading the forums for a few hours I have become deflated as I guess things are how I thought they were. So I wanted to get some feed back from you guys on the reality of Hawaii and what you think my prospects might be.
However, if the above two paragraphs are any indication of your primary reason for moving to Hawai'i, you might want to consider moving to Guam instead. IT jobs are rather plentiful there, it has a relatively low cost-of-living, and you shouldn't have much of a problem getting a Japanese girlfriend (or two). ;)

[mjj]

My daughter lives in Irvine. I'm guessing you're a bit further south. I'm originally from Laguna Beach. The cost of living there may be a bit higher than Hawaii, esp. factoring in the property taxes. I know someone who lives in an older, small, charming, bungalow style 3/2, 5 blocks up a hill from the beach. Her prop. taxes are $14,000./year. Unbelievable. Even if I sold my Hawaii condo I couldn't afford to return to Laguna. My daughter's prop taxes in Irvine are $5000+/year.

As a couple of my clients and I told my daughter...it's about quality of life. That's why I live in Hawaii and I think that's her main reason for wanting to move back. I know I was willing to make financial sacrifices to live in Hawaii. The truth is, those sacrifices are what led to the increase in my quality of life. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, tho'!

Yes, I live in Irvine as well, and its just far too expensive to own here right now but I'm imagining what you get for 1200 rent here is alot nicer than what you will end up with in Hawaii.

I guess I need a second, thrid, and fourth trip to have a look around see what the conditions are like.

[mjj]

Ah.... South Orange County... no wonder you want to move to Hawai'i. :cool: If you aren't too concerned about buying a house, it's probably a little cheaper to live in Hawai'i. Here's a "cost-of-living" calculator to play around with:
http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html?type=to


However, if the above two paragraphs are any indication of your primary reason for moving to Hawai'i, you might want to consider moving to Guam instead. IT jobs are rather plentiful there, it has a relatively low cost-of-living, and you shouldn't have much of a problem getting a Japanese girlfriend (or two). ;)


hmm, interesting, how are the beaches? the people? might be worth a visit :)

[mjj]

Guys, I just want to make clear, I would not be looking for trouble at all, I am fully open to the culture, its just stories and articles like these that have me worried:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.culture.hawaii/browse_frm/thread/e6eb3bb27d19528d/8e6fe72227c14615?lnk=st&rnum=8&hl=en#8e6fe72227c14615
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.culture.hawaii/browse_frm/thread/90af9e909478e161/bdd87208c82c18a9?lnk=st&rnum=4&hl=en#bdd87208c82c18a9

and the other stories of road rage found on this site, etc.

[Jonah K]

hmm, interesting, how are the beaches? the people? might be worth a visit :)
The beaches are quite nice, especially Fafai Beach and Tanguisson Beach, even though most of the tourists prefer the beach at Tumon Bay. As for the people, I'd say that the Guam locals are as friendly as the locals in Hawai'i (maybe even more so). :D Here's a link to some general info....
http://www.guam-online.com/

[tikiyaki]

Guys, I just want to make clear, I would not be looking for trouble at all, I am fully open to the culture, its just stories and articles like these that have me worried:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.culture.hawaii/browse_frm/thread/e6eb3bb27d19528d/8e6fe72227c14615?lnk=st&rnum=8&hl=en#8e6fe72227c14615
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.culture.hawaii/browse_frm/thread/90af9e909478e161/bdd87208c82c18a9?lnk=st&rnum=4&hl=en#bdd87208c82c18a9

and the other stories of road rage found on this site, etc.


Not for nothin' but did you look at the date on those posts ? They're 10 years old. Perhaps things have changed a bit since then...I don't know.

[i-hungry]

MJJ,

There's bad in Hawaii too. I'm not going to list any of them but you'll see it sooner or later.

I still rather live in Hawaii than the mainland.

[MadAzza]

One thing's for sure: If you are not Asian/part-Asian (that is, if you are of largely European ancestry), and if bad things happen to you in Hawaii, people will tell you it's somehow your fault, that "life is what you make it," you must have provoked them and so on. This is a curious phenomenon that I haven't experienced elsewhere -- victims of crime being held responsible for causing the crime.

One late evening several years ago, after I had rid the park across from my house of some druggies, I was ganged up on by 30 or so of their friends, most of whom appeared to be teenagers and showed up a few minutes later. Part of the attack happened ON MY PROPERTY. When the police came, they chose to ignore my obvious head injury and instead told me that if I pressed charges, they would take ME to jail. I, a middle-aged, suburban woman in a "good" neighborhood -- never mind the pack of howling thugs standing around yelling "Fucking haole!" and other racist comments in full view/earshot of the police, who -- gosh it all! -- just happened to be of the same basic racial/ethnic makeup as my attackers.

The police decided to ignore all that, stood on my front step and told me this to my face -- that they would take ME to jail. I was calm, I wasn't using bad language and I had a head injury from where one young "local" male had hit me with a full can of soda. My neighbors, who witnessed the attack, verified my version of events. When I inquired as to the logic of the police officers' approach, they became aggressive and even more threatening.

I felt intimidated and afraid, and I haven't fully trusted the police in Hawaii since. And I'm not easy to intimidate. The one positive outcome was that it gave me an understanding, however slight, of what it must be like to be a black person in America, constantly hassled by non-black police officers.

By the way, I spent three years on Guam. If you're going to move "out here," I would recommend Hawaii.

[helen]

The police decided to ignore all that, stood on my front step and told me this to my face -- that they would take ME to jail.

Did they say why they would take you to jail?

[MadAzza]

It had something to do with the police not being able to tell "who did what" and it being a case of my word against theirs. Well, excuse me, look at my damn head! And it wasn't my word against theirs -- I had witnesses.

Racism, pure and simple.

[1stwahine]

It had something to do with the police not being able to tell "who did what" and it being a case of my word against theirs. Well, excuse me, look at my damn head! And it wasn't my word against theirs -- I had witnesses.

Racism, pure and simple.

Maddie, Did you file a complaint with the Police Commission? You had witnesses and injury. I'm sorry such ugliness happen to you.

Hugs

Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

It had something to do with the police not being able to tell "who did what" and it being a case of my word against theirs. Well, excuse me, look at my damn head! And it wasn't my word against theirs -- I had witnesses.

Racism, pure and simple.
That's horrible, Maddie! But I can also think of a couple of other reasons why (besides racism) the cops might have threatened to take you in: 1) you "inconvenienced" them by forcing them to show up and do their jobs or 2) because you weren't in Waikiki, you probably weren't a tourist and therefore you were expected to "deal with" the situation yourself (as in getting some of your local "friends" to wreak revenge). I'm sure if this little incident happened to you in the middle of Waikiki, the cops would be a hell of a lot more diligent in their followthrough.

Miulang

[MadAzza]

Maddie, Did you file a complaint with the Police Commission? You had witnesses and injury. I'm sorry such ugliness happen to you.

Hugs

Auntie Lynn

Thanks, Auntie! No, I didn't want to incur more cop wrath upon me. They knew where I lived. I'm not *that* stupid! Stick your head out, get it cut off. No, thanks.

Anyway ... I do support HPD, and I still call the cops when I feel the need to report something. I have *good friends* who are cops. I try not to blame the whole dept. for my bad experience, but at the same time, it did affect me. I see things in a different way now, and I am more understanding of certain racial problems others experience. So it's not all bad!

But it does get my hackles up when people spout that old line about "life being what you make it" and "treat everyone with respect and you'll be fine." 'Cuz it just ain't true, not always. Besides, I refuse to treat thugs and scum with respect. Why reward bad behavior? (And ignoring it is almost as bad as rewarding it.)

[1stwahine]

Anyway ... I do support HPD, and I still call the cops when I feel the need to report something. I have *good friends* who are cops. I try not to blame the whole dept. for my bad experience, but at the same time, it did affect me. I see things in a different way now, and I am more understanding of certain racial problems others experience. So it's not all bad!

Maddie, you are an intellegent woman with a strong personality.:D I also support HPD and have nephews who are Officers. Soon my daughter will be one too. The problem still exist within HPD of Azzholes who continue to make HPD look bad. The ugliness of racial discrimination is present in our islands and I'm sorry it continues. As a mother and grandmother, I have taught my children to accept all no matter what color, race or religion a person is. I will continue to instill the same into my grandchildren.

Tonight, I cry for you Maddie. I wish my arms could go through my screen to give you a Big Honi Honi. We must go out one night. I still owe you a Birthday Night Out On the Town!

I Love You

Auntie Lynn

[tutusue]

Guys, I just want to make clear, I would not be looking for trouble at all, I am fully open to the culture, its just stories and articles like these that have me worried:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.culture.hawaii/browse_frm/thread/e6eb3bb27d19528d/8e6fe72227c14615?lnk=st&rnum=8&hl=en#8e6fe72227c14615
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.culture.hawaii/browse_frm/thread/90af9e909478e161/bdd87208c82c18a9?lnk=st&rnum=4&hl=en#bdd87208c82c18a9

and the other stories of road rage found on this site, etc.
That newsgroup is alt.culture.hawaii...the absolute cesspool of usenet. Ignore it. Really.

If ever there was a case FOR road rage, it was this past Sept. 5 when this incident (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=10084) occured. I'm sure there were a lot of angry people but my daughter mentioned more than once that the lack of road rage that she witnessed would've never happened in Cali. Road rage is universal, btw. I'd much rather drive in Hawaii than Cali. Honest.
[...]But it does get my hackles up when people spout that old line about "life being what you make it" and "treat everyone with respect and you'll be fine." 'Cuz it just ain't true, not always. Besides, I refuse to treat thugs and scum with respect. Why reward bad behavior? (And ignoring it is almost as bad as rewarding it.)
Wow, Maddie. What a horrible experience. Altho' not as bad, I, too, had a similar experience. I was stunned at the way the HPD handled it...or should I say, didn't handle it...all the way up to the chief of police.

I think your key words above are 'not always'. I strongly believe that one reaps as one sows but...nuthin's 100%. Ca-ca happens unfortunately.

[Buzzy]

This is an interesting thread, cause I'm interested in something similar. Not Oahu, but Puna, BI. And I'm a lot (a LOT) older, but instead of IT my field is law. I'm doing immigration law in Seattle/Tacoma now, but dream of farming in Hawaii, also doing law.

It's difficult to find much information about the immigration situation in Hawaii. Would there be any need for this service in Hilo? If I change fields, is there much need for any kind of law in Hilo? Dumb question, because human nature being what it is, there's always a need for lawyers. However, I'm more interested in what could actually be useful to people there, and if those needs are already amply supplied.

Also, I am perfectly willing to take a drastic cut in pay to live in Paradise. Seems to me the less money you have the less harm you can do to nature. Just a thought.

You folks are cranky but pretty wonderful. I live on an island full of cranky wonderful people now, so think I'd be at home there. I went for a work week (not vacation) to Hilo and Puna and could hardly force myself to leave.

Also, can anybody help me figure out how to start a string here.

Thank you all.

[WindwardOahuRN]

But it does get my hackles up when people spout that old line about "life being what you make it" and "treat everyone with respect and you'll be fine." 'Cuz it just ain't true, not always. Besides, I refuse to treat thugs and scum with respect. Why reward bad behavior? (And ignoring it is almost as bad as rewarding it.)

"Give aloha and you'll get aloha."

Pass the Zofran, please.

As per the ethics of my profession I am bound to provide care for all who are entrusted to my care.

Doesn't render me deaf or blind, however.

Pffffft. Spare me the stink-eye, middle-finger displays from the glowering members of the boldly-tattoooed "Sons of Samoa" as I render care to one of their esteemed members to the best of my ability.

The "give/get" thing is wishful thinking, sometimes. Always proper for a first attempt and always worth a try, but sometimes just like spitting in the wind.

I do my twelve-hour shift and go back home. No delusional thinking here.

[manoasurfer123]

we need to realize that the cops here live by discretion and not by law.

Nuff said.

[1stwahine]

we need to realize that the cops here live by discretion and not by law.

Nuff said.

Manoa, No one is Above The Law!:rolleyes: They may think they are...but someday they will be behind bars themselves. For your information...the majority of the Men and Women in Blue who took the Oath upon becoming HPD Officers continue to uphold it with Pride and Dignity!

Auntie Lynn

[Jonah K]

This is an interesting thread, cause I'm interested in something similar. Not Oahu, but Puna, BI. And I'm a lot (a LOT) older, but instead of IT my field is law. I'm doing immigration law in Seattle/Tacoma now, but dream of farming in Hawaii, also doing law.

It's difficult to find much information about the immigration situation in Hawaii. Would there be any need for this service in Hilo? If I change fields, is there much need for any kind of law in Hilo? Dumb question, because human nature being what it is, there's always a need for lawyers. However, I'm more interested in what could actually be useful to people there, and if those needs are already amply supplied.
Puna probably has a greater need for lawyers specializing in criminal law than it does for those specializing in anything else. Of course, you can always set up a table at the Maku'u Farmers' Market like Cynthia Linet and offer 20 minutes worth of legal advice for $20. ;)
http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/articles/2006/01/30/local/local04.txt


Also, can anybody help me figure out how to start a string here.

P.S. There's usually a "New Thread" button at the top and/or bottom of the forum...:)

Cheers,

Jonah K

[nachodaddy]

This is an interesting thread, cause I'm interested in something similar. Not Oahu, but Puna, BI. And I'm a lot (a LOT) older, but instead of IT my field is law. I'm doing immigration law in Seattle/Tacoma now, but dream of farming in Hawaii, also doing law.

It's difficult to find much information about the immigration situation in Hawaii. Would there be any need for this service in Hilo? If I change fields, is there much need for any kind of law in Hilo? Dumb question, because human nature being what it is, there's always a need for lawyers. However, I'm more interested in what could actually be useful to people there, and if those needs are already amply supplied.

Also, I am perfectly willing to take a drastic cut in pay to live in Paradise. Seems to me the less money you have the less harm you can do to nature. Just a thought.

You folks are cranky but pretty wonderful. I live on an island full of cranky wonderful people now, so think I'd be at home there. I went for a work week (not vacation) to Hilo and Puna and could hardly force myself to leave.

Also, can anybody help me figure out how to start a string here.

Thank you all.

Welcome to HT, Buzz. I get on Vashon now and then, mostly to check out the nurseries. If you are growing stuff on Vashon, you will have a ball in Puna.

Immigration Law???? hmm......would think that the major port of entry is Honolulu. Ag crops on the Big Island may have a need for your services, seasonal stuff. Coffee on the Kona side.

Also, someplace on here, in a thread I cannot find cuz the search function is not working for me, someone placed some stats on the state of the population (influx, folks leaving, where are they coming from, etc). That would give you some numbers and I suspect a check of the local phone book would give you the numbers of lawyers. Then you compare the two. Kinda a "what the market will bear" approach.

Also check out the Star Bulletin at http://starbulletin.com/ and search for "immigration" "INS", "farm workers", stuff like that for concerns in the press.

Good luck!!!!!

[pzarquon]

Can you live and are you willing to live on less? If so, can you psychologically accept a lower income without becoming resentful?Given the recent discussion about making less in Hawaii, I thought this article (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Oct/02/bz/FP610220354.html) in yesterday's Honolulu Advertiser was worth mentioning.

Honolulu wages 3% more than annual wages (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Oct/02/bz/FP610220354.html)

That kind of headline is what gives some folks false hopes in their plans of relocating. Actually reading the article reveals that a lot of Hawaii's higher than average wages are in specific fields (hotel clerks 77 percent higher, nurses 27 percent higher, electricians 46 percent higher), and that we also have lower than average wages in others (teachers 7 percent lower, accountants 11 percent lower, and programmers 14 percent lower).

And for whatever reason, the Advertiser puts the real counterpoint at the end (or deep on an inside page in the print edition):Byron Gangnes, associate professor of economics at the University of Hawai'i, said the so-called pay premium often does not make up for the high living costs in Hawai'i, which exceeds costs on the Mainland by 30 percent to 40 percent.In other words, even if your pay in Hawaii was 30 to 40 percent higher than the national average -- and I think we all know that's pretty unlikely -- at best you'll make ends meet about as well as you would in the average Mainland city.

Like Tutusue said, you have to take a good look at your expectations and how you measure quality of life. Some folks might be happy with a dusty, hot, overpriced studio apartment so long as it's a block from the beach, some folks might not.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Not to mention the articles in today's SB and Advertiser about our having the highest median rents in the country. $995/month? Eeek. I haven't rented in a long time so that was kind of a shock for me.

[AbsolutChaos]

Not to mention the articles in today's SB and Advertiser about our having the highest median rents in the country. $995/month? Eeek.

Sigh...I miss the times when I was paying rent that low here...
:(

[1stwahine]

Sigh...I miss the times when I was paying rent that low here...
:(

I can imagine how much you would "sigh" if I told you some of the rents people pay for living in Public Housing. Then again, living in P.H. is a whole different ball game.:eek: heheheh

Auntie Lynn:D

[manoasurfer123]

I can imagine how much you would "sigh" if I told you some of the rents people pay for living in Public Housing. Then again, living in P.H. is a whole different ball game.:eek: heheheh

Auntie Lynn:D

No tease us Auntie...

You have told me...!!! and If I were eligible.... I would take it in a heartbeat!

Your 3brm was MUCH cheaper than my 1brm if I remember correctly!:o

Question... aren't the units there rented on sliding scales? Or does everyone pay the same rent depending on the amount of rooms?

[1stwahine]

No tease us Auntie...

You have told me...!!! and If I were eligible.... I would take it in a heartbeat!

Your 3brm was MUCH cheaper than my 1brm if I remember correctly!:o

Question... aren't the units there rented on sliding scales? Or does everyone pay the same rent depending on the amount of rooms?

No tease us Auntie...

You have told me...!!! and If I were eligible.... I would take it in a heartbeat!

Your 3brm was MUCH cheaper than my 1brm if I remember correctly!:o

Question... aren't the units there rented on sliding scales? Or does everyone pay the same rent depending on the amount of rooms?

Rent is calculated by each household's income minus certain allowances. The size of the unit is decided by the amount of persons in the family. In my case, I have a three bedroom because my children were with me when I moved here. They no longer reside with me.;) I've been on the waiting list for a one bedroom for the Disabled for several years.

Auntie Lynn

[1stwahine]

No tease us Auntie...

You have told me...!!! and If I were eligible.... I would take it in a heartbeat!

Your 3brm was MUCH cheaper than my 1brm if I remember correctly!:o

Question... aren't the units there rented on sliding scales? Or does everyone pay the same rent depending on the amount of rooms?

Rent is calculated by each household's income minus certain allowances. The size of the unit is decided by the amount of persons in the family. In my case, I have a three bedroom because my children were with me when I moved here. They no longer reside with me.;) I've been on the waiting list for a one bedroom for the Disabled for several years. The last time I checked...the waiting list is over ten years.

Auntie Lynn

[SouthKona]

Honolulu wages 3% more than annual wages.
Heck, that is immediately offset by our "excise tax" system, where the same dollar is taxed over and over again. The buyer of a product pays a 4% "excise tax" (not a "sales tax") to the state when buying the product. The seller pays an additional 4% to the state on the sale (because it is income to the seller). And if the seller of the product uses the income to pay a contractor or farmer or other "non-employee" type person, the recipient pays another 4%.

Sorry to digress....

[Queenolu]

Heck, that is immediately offset by our "excise tax" system, where the same dollar is taxed over and over again. The buyer of a product pays a 4% "excise tax" (not a "sales tax") to the state when buying the product. The seller pays an additional 4% to the state on the sale (because it is income to the seller). And if the seller of the product uses the income to pay a contractor or farmer or other "non-employee" type person, the recipient pays another 4%.

Sorry to digress....

What you have said here is the same in many other state in the union. We pay the same thing where I am. As a buyer, we pay tax when we buy a product. As a seller of a product or service, I pay tax to the state on the income. And as a contractor... you have to pay tax on the income you accepted for your service because that is income.... as an employee, you pay tax both federal and state on the income you made.

So, this is just not in Hawai'i alone. It is done all over the U.S....

[WindwardOahuRN]

So, this is just not in Hawai'i alone. It is done all over the U.S....

No, not quite.

Big difference here is that you pay tax on damn near EVERYTHING. Groceries, rent, visits to the doctor, etc, etc, etc.

This article explains it in more detail:

http://starbulletin.com/2003/03/16/news/story6.html

[SouthKona]

What you have said here is the same in many other state in the union. We pay the same thing where I am. As a buyer, we pay tax when we buy a product. As a seller of a product or service, I pay tax to the state on the income. And as a contractor... you have to pay tax on the income you accepted for your service because that is income.... as an employee, you pay tax both federal and state on the income you made. So, this is just not in Hawai'i alone. It is done all over the U.S....

Hawaii is different in that we have an excise tax, and the structure is different than a sales tax. "Sales tax" taxes at the point of sale, but "excise tax" taxes at every turn. Also, the excise tax that is paid by an independent contractor or self-employed person is in addition to federal and state income taxes.

[Queenolu]

No, not quite.

Big difference here is that you pay tax on damn near EVERYTHING. Groceries, rent, visits to the doctor, etc, etc, etc.

This article explains it in more detail:

http://starbulletin.com/2003/03/16/news/story6.html

Hawaii is different in that we have an excise tax, and the structure is different than a sales tax. "Sales tax" taxes at the point of sale, but "excise tax" taxes at every turn. Also, the excise tax that is paid by an independent contractor or self-employed person is in addition to federal and state income taxes.

Thank you for the information.

[mjj]

Update:

I took everything in to consideration and used the fact that I was depressed from Hawaii and thinking bout quitting my job to negotiate a raise to $75,000 / year. At this rate I think its not realistic to move to Hawaii until if/when I am making real money that doesn't tie me down to a daily job. I guess for now I will just come to Hawaii to play and enjoy what it has to offer. I have been really wanting to visit lately due to this cold spell hitting California as of recent.

Thanks for all your input guys.

[Vanguard]

I don't want to backtrack, mjj, but I have a question.

You said you met some cool people who gave you phone numbers.

Where were you when you met these people? How far from Waikiki were you?

I'm just trying to better visualize your experience.

[mjj]

I don't want to backtrack, mjj, but I have a question.

You said you met some cool people who gave you phone numbers.

Where were you when you met these people? How far from Waikiki were you?

I'm just trying to better visualize your experience.

No problem. I don't mind recalling it. Specifically it was at the Karaoke Hut which I believe was in/near Waikiki. Also some cool people at club FemNu.

I know, I know, maybe we would have instead have been met with lead pipes if we were in another part of the island (if thats what your getting at) :)

We made our rounds through the island up to the north shore where we went sky diving and all that. But most of the fun was in Waikiki.

[1stwahine]

No problem. I don't mind recalling it. Specifically it was at the Karaoke Hut which I believe was in/near Waikiki. Also some cool people at club FemNu.

Club FemNu? Yep! It can be real COOL!:p

HACHACHA!!!:D

Auntie Lynn

[mjj]

Club FemNu? Yep! It can be real COOL!:p

HACHACHA!!!:D

Auntie Lynn

Yes, some very beautiful women there.

The funny thing is more than one person on the island told me that this was just eye candy if you want the real deal you need to go to Thailand. Everyone speaks so highly of the place.

[Vanguard]

No problem. I don't mind recalling it. Specifically it was at the Karaoke Hut which I believe was in/near Waikiki. Also some cool people at club FemNu.

I know, I know, maybe we would have instead have been met with lead pipes if we were in another part of the island (if thats what your getting at) :)

We made our rounds through the island up to the north shore where we went sky diving and all that. But most of the fun was in Waikiki.

That's cool. You may have even met cool local people, and not just the "transients", i.e. people who have moved to Hawaii recently, and will probably move from Hawai'i months later. Now that I think about it, proximity to Waikiki in itself isn't a damning factor to a clean experience for you, as I do recall going to the Honolulu Zoo for an event which seemed to have a lot of longtime Hawaii residents. But I would still try for some excursions away from Waikiki next time, and see how you feel.

If you want to be careful, take another trip before making a full blown plan to move. Try to meet people, and even take sociological notes. See if you can come up with mental statistics; how many long term residents you chat with, and if you like them or not. Personally, I think anyone with an open mind can make friends in Hawaii; a race factor may be there, but I believe it can be overcome. The bottom line is, you have to like it there, and you have to like people.

Also consider "island fever". Examine your own behavior. Do you like to take long drives to different cities and states? In Hawaii, you can drive around your island in a few hours, and that's that. This can be upsetting to some people.

Try to check out a lot of residential neighborhoods, to see which ones you like and would enjoy living in.

I suppose now I'm getting into very well visited territory so I'll stop babbling :)

[1stwahine]

Next time you come, contact me. I'll give you a Full Island Tour dat you won't find in the Tour Groups! I'll show you the in's and out's of Oahu! You wanna see eye candy? HAHAHAHAHAHA Just let me know.

Auntie Lynn

[mjj]

That's cool. You may have even met cool local people, and not just the "transients", i.e. people who have moved to Hawaii recently, and will probably move months later. Now that I think about it, proximity to Waikiki in itself isn't a damning factor to a clean experience for you, as I do recall going to the Honolulu Zoo for an event which seemed to have a lot of longtime Hawaii residents.

If you want to be careful, take another trip before making a full blown plan to move. Try to meet people, and even take sociological notes. See if you can come up with mental statistics; how many long term residents you chat with, and if you like them or not. Personally, I think anyone with an open mind can make friends in Hawaii; a race factor may be there, but I believe it can be overcome. The bottom line is, you have to like it there, and you have to like people.

Also consider "island fever". Examine your own behavior. Do you like to take long drives to different cities and states? In Hawaii, you can drive around your island in a few hours, and that's that. This can be upsetting to some people.

I suppose now I'm getting into very well visited territory so I'll stop babbling :)

Well, I thank you a lot for the advice. They were indeed locals born and raised (but I'm not sure they were "Hawaiian"). Hell the funny thing is they seemed to envy us being from California as much as we did them living in Hawaii and one was trying to move to San Diego (thats a mistake if you ask me, I'd so take Oahu).

I'm really a self contained kinda person I don't care to drive all around and I mean its not really that far by plane. I think the humidity would bug me eventually though.

But anyhow, if you take a look up about 3 posts you will see that I have since decided against it. I'm a kick back person but I'm really pale and I just don't think I could handle living in a place where theres a good chance get my head bashed in on any random walk or wrong turn. That and I found its not truly possible for me to take the kind of paycut it would require.

I'd really like to visit again soon though.

I'm going to Amsterdam and Germany in March and I don't think its going to be as warm :P

[mjj]

Next time you come, contact me. I'll give you a Full Island Tour dat you won't find in the Tour Groups! I'll show you the in's and out's of Oahu! You wanna see eye candy? HAHAHAHAHAHA Just let me know.

Auntie Lynn

Thank you for the offer but I think I might be a little too young for you at 25 :)

[1stwahine]

Thank you for the offer but I think I might be a little too young for you at 25 :)

Dear Heavens! I wasn't talking about me! :eek: Oh! No!!!! :o I know many places....I said I'll give you a TOUR! Read carefully.

Too funny.

I can hear the laughter in the room.

Stop it everybody!!

Auntie Lynn

[tutusue]

Dear Heavens! I wasn't talking about me! :eek: Oh! No!!!! :o I know many places....I said I'll give you a TOUR! Read carefully.

Too funny.

I can hear the laughter in the room.

Stop it everybody!!

Auntie Lynn
8/8/08????? :D

[mjj]

Dear Heavens! I wasn't talking about me! :eek: Oh! No!!!! :o I know many places....I said I'll give you a TOUR! Read carefully.

Too funny.

I can hear the laughter in the room.

Stop it everybody!!

Auntie Lynn

LOL, oh man, I can't read, the first part sounded cool but then I read the second part as "You wanna see my eye candy?????". How funny!

I'd love a tour! I think we might visit again in late August. I don't think I can stay away.

That reminds me. I heard they banned smoking there now? I'm not really in to smoking (cigs anyway) but it was so prevalent I cant even imagine Hawaii with out it. I must admit while intoxicated I did it just like everyone else (hell I felt out of place not smoking there). Can't believed they banned it.

[1stwahine]

8/8/08????? :D

Nope! To young to DATE!:p

LOL, oh man, I can't read, the first part sounded cool but then I read the second part as "You wanna see my eye candy?????". How funny!

I'd love a tour! I think we might visit again in late August. I don't think I can stay away.

Great! We got that cleared!!! You almost gave me a Heart Attack!:eek: j/k
Just let me know one month in advance. Ok? Ok!

Looking forward to meeting you.

Auntie Lynn

P.S. You won't be the first HT Member I've given a Tour to. You'll be safe. Honest.

[Vanguard]

I'm a kick back person but I'm really pale and I just don't think I could handle living in a place where theres a good chance get my head bashed in on any random walk or wrong turn.

Did the crime level skyrocket in just a few short years? Hawaii may not be 100% crimeproof, but I didn't find Honolulu to be any worse a place for crime than major cities on the east and west coast. The only city I ever felt uncomfortable in was (pre-Katrina) New Orleans.

[mjj]

P.S. You won't be the first HT Member I've given a Tour to. You'll be safe. Honest.

Very cool. I look forward to it as well :).

[DiverDown808]

Forget this tour talk, Aunty. Where's this eye candy ? I wanna see !!!! But shhhhhhhhh, our secret ok ? ok

:D

[PoiBoy]

I got CANDY...I could serve you on da block! :D

Its so paunny! :D