Fat versus smoke

[dick]

Since we're all going off on that scourge known as second-hand smoke, and how it's robbing our insurance dollars... I'd like to see the societal ills such as macaroni salad and the ubiquitous "loco moco" banned, since that crap clogs arteries, and, ultimately, milks the health insurance industry thanks to heart bypasses, diabetes, and gastric bypasses.

Sure that might be a bit of a stretch, but you get my point. While fat (yeah, I said it) people might not affect me "directly" with something like smoke, I and those of us with health insurance are affected by thier health problems.

"Oh, not all "big people" have health problems..." And the same goes with smokers... so let's see where this goes...

[newroots]

well... If you place a law on what people should eat , and shouldnt eat. than thats messing around with their freedom a whole lot more , than placing a law on what people should smoke.

eating ... eating is a natural form of consumption. people need to eat..

smoking on the other hand.. is not a natural form of consupmtion. people dont need to smoke.

so theres one way to look at it.


you cant stop people from eating. most especially in guam. ask anyone whos been here.... the food ... is crayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyzie

[mr508ma]

Hey Dick, I can relate... i am a fat person, not obese, but 6', 300+, and got this way when i quit smoking & took up eating.. so i gave up smoking to be healthier & now have to give up eating to try to lose the weight i gained... and on top of that have health insurance & are frustrated by the rise, for it turns out to be more than the pay increase we been fighting for..

It's a no win situation... people will always be sick and need medical, Dr's will always want more money, Insurance will alway rise along with gas, milk, ect.. it's inflation... do we stop producing meat, so we have more cows to lower the cost of milk ??

The tough part is tobacco is a natural grown product like any fruit or veggie, just cause you burn it, it affects others... maybe candle fumes cause hunger & make people obese ??? LOL

you are one step ahead of most of the world, for you already live in Paridise

oppps, outside of being fat, ex-smoker, and part deaf, i am somewhat healthy & pay insurance too..

[Pua'i Mana'o]

like being a reformed smoker who *hates* smoke, I am also someone who pulled down from the obese range through diet and exercise in these last five years and is livid with what we call "local food choices". The only fast food option I will choose is Subway. We haven't brought soda into this house in years. Only brown rice is allowed in my rice cooker. And, I am the gal contemplating saltless shoyu. ;)

[AbsolutChaos]

From the American Cancer website:

A Smoker on Payroll Can Cost Firms Up to $3,800 (http://www.acsworkplacesolutions.com/newsdetails.asp)

And frrm USA Today:

It places the annual cost at an additional $460 to $2,500 per obese person — those who are 30 or more pounds over a healthy weight. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-09-11-obesity-workforce_x.htm)

[AbsolutChaos]

Since we're all going off on that scourge known as second-hand smoke, and how it's robbing our insurance dollars... I'd like to see the societal ills such as macaroni salad and the ubiquitous "loco moco" banned, since that crap clogs arteries, and, ultimately, milks the health insurance industry thanks to heart bypasses, diabetes, and gastric bypasses.

Public is going in that direction. It started with having to slap nutritional labels on everything. Now there have been more lawsuits aimed at fast food companies for serving "unhealthy" foods. KFC and Wendy's have switched to a different cooking oil to get rid of trans fat in the food. L&L (at least the one in Walmart) offers brown rice and salad instead of mac salad and rice. McDonalds has added more salads/grilled chicken to their menu. Taco Bell has the fresco option at all their restaurants, where you can get fresh salsa instead of the cheese and sauce.

There's talk of raising prices on unhealthy food and making it cheaper than healthy food, as well as an anti-obesity day similar to the American smoke-out.
http://www.ghchealth.com/american-cancer-society-now-believes-obesity-is-as-dangerous-as-smoking.html

I think that the anti smoking laws started out in a similar place; little by little our food will be regulated too.

[timkona]

I spent the last 4 years trying to lose 30 lbs. I did it. And I have kept it off. Was 242. Now 212, or a little under. HARDEST DAMNED THING I EVER DID. "May I have 1/2 scoop rice, please, and a Coors Lt instead of a Sam Adams"

But I did it. And if I can do it, then anybody can do it. Fat is a CHOICE, just like smoking. When I hear lame-asses talk about "I just can't lose the weight" while both hands move through the food like a steam shovel, I just smile.....and then put on my shoes and go for a brisk walk. People always say "Hey, what you runnin from?". My answer: "The Grim Reaper".

As for food choices in Hawaii, that's a funny one. Hard to find the vegetable at most Luau's. Oh, you mean the frozen peas in the Mac Salad? :cool:

[Leo Lakio]

As has been noted repeatedly in the other thread, you cannot compare the two as equals. Second-hand eating is not a health risk to the non-eaters in the same room.

[WindwardOahuRN]

I spent the last 4 years trying to lose 30 lbs. I did it. And I have kept it off. Was 242. Now 212, or a little under. HARDEST DAMNED THING I EVER DID. "May I have 1/2 scoop rice, please, and a Coors Lt instead of a Sam Adams"

But I did it. And if I can do it, then anybody can do it.

Not necessarily. Not everyone is as special as you are, Tim. :rolleyes:

Do you sneer at overweight people to their faces or have the decency to do it behind their backs?

I deal with obese patients every day at my job. Some are well over 500 lbs. There are human beings in there, you know. The factors that lead to obesity are often complicated and not all that easy to overcome for many.

For you to smugly assert that "if I can do it, then anybody can do it" is rather cruel.

[blueyecicle]

MY husband smokes and I am fat (according to today standards)! So I am in both worlds.
But he smokes outside, and I am actually healthy.

I don't think you can just judge either one.

My husband quit doing drugs and quit drinking several years ago and cannot quit smoking, he is trying but it is hard. Now he has MS and it's even harder to quit.

Me? I have always been not a size 0, more like a 12 even when I was a kid, my mom always told me how fat I was. Now I am heavier but I stay healthy. everyone has issues, you can't blanket either one....period.

There are more reason for being fat and smoking than just lazy, or addicted.
My husband hates not being able to stop smoking. I would like to be a bit thinnner but who wouldn't.
Doesn't make someone a bad person or the SOLE reason there is a strain on healthcare costs.
Healthcare costs have too many factors to just blame one or the other or both.
There are many other factors.

[WindwardOahuRN]

As has been noted repeatedly in the other thread, you cannot compare the two as equals. Second-hand eating is not a health risk to the non-eaters in the same room.

It might be in the case of kim chee...:eek:

[Palolo Joe]

I'm not judging fat people, but they do most certainly affect my quality of life when I'm forced to occupy space near them in public places.

Just the other day, I'm riding The Bus, and this extremely overweight man decided that he just had to stand in the aisle next to my seat. Which meant my face was conveniently located right next to his ass.

I tried to lean back, but I couldn't get away. I tried to lean forward, but the bus would lurch and I almost got ass-slapped a few times. I had to settle for putting my arm up and elbowing the bag he was carrying to leverage his ass out of my face.

Not to mention, there were both open seats AND wide open stretches of bus aisle. He didn't have to park himself next to me. Instead of worrying about second-hand smoke, I had to worry about ass fumes -- a most definite health risk.

Unless the person has a health condition that prohibits them from losing weight, I don't see how the "I did it, you can too" mantra is a bad thing.

[lavagal]

...Just the other day, I'm riding The Bus...

My husband rides the bus and regales me with similar tales/tails. He also enjoys the self-important middle and high schoolers who like to test newly learned profanities on the bus. That's another cross normal bus riders have to endure.

As for smokers versus fat people...I find staying in shape is a very hard thing to do that requires a life-long commitment. I've yo-yoed, but, am resigned that I will need to exercise daily in some capacity to stay healthy. I don't like smoking and wish people could quit more easily. I try to understand how difficult it is to throw off such an addiction. I can only applaud those who do.

[GeckoGeek]

Since we're all going off on that scourge known as second-hand smoke, and how it's robbing our insurance dollars...

Sorry, the "insurance dollars" aspect was a side bar of the health aspect. If the only concern is insurance dollars, there's ways of fixing that. Transfat tax, obesity tax, higher insurance rates depending on lab results. Whatever. Pick your political poison. It's just money, it can be balanced.

[Hope]

Hmmm...and we could add a "man" tax, too...after all, most violent crimes, murders, molestations, car jackings, drug dealing, auto thefts, domestic violence, drunk drivers, etc. are committed by men. They fill up the vast majority of prisons, so they should have higher taxes, too. :rolleyes:

[tikiyaki]

I'm not judging fat people, but they do most certainly affect my quality of life when I'm forced to occupy space near them in public places.

Just the other day, I'm riding The Bus, and this extremely overweight man decided that he just had to stand in the aisle next to my seat. Which meant my face was conveniently located right next to his ass.

I tried to lean back, but I couldn't get away. I tried to lean forward, but the bus would lurch and I almost got ass-slapped a few times. I had to settle for putting my arm up and elbowing the bag he was carrying to leverage his ass out of my face.

Not to mention, there were both open seats AND wide open stretches of bus aisle. He didn't have to park himself next to me. Instead of worrying about second-hand smoke, I had to worry about ass fumes -- a most definite health risk.


LOL ! ass fumes. :eek:

[GeckoGeek]

Hmmm...and we could add a "man" tax, too...after all, most violent crimes, murders, molestations, car jackings, drug dealing, auto thefts, domestic violence, drunk drivers, etc. are committed by men. They fill up the vast majority of prisons, so they should have higher taxes, too. :rolleyes:

You've completely missed my point. Read my first sentence again. If the complaint that the "effect on others" is just insurance premiums, then there are ways of shifting that burden so that it's fairly shared.

As for the problem with men, who do you think raised them? :p

[Bard]

It might be in the case of kim chee...:eek:

Hah! I was gonna say, too, it depends on how badly you want some of what that other person is eating. Second hand donut eating for example can be pretty deadly for your weight ;)

I've been working for about a year and a half or so (biking to work and back about half the time, reducing fat and refined sugar, etc) and lost about 20 pounds so far (6', a little under 210lbs now). I've made few dietary sacrifices, t's made me feel so much better and while I've yo-yo'd too, I've gone down more than up. I figure I have another 20-30 to go. I feel bad for people who honestly can't lose it (I know they're out there). It's like a full time hobby to try to properly manage your calories and exercise. Death by abundance...

What killed my solid downward trend was visiting Hawai`i actually... :P So much good food to try.

[808shooter]

How about a Fat Tax to go along with the Sin Tax that covers cigs?

If you buy unhealthy food, we slap a tax on you that goes towards healthcare coverage.

Yes what a brilliant idea!

:D

[GeckoGeek]

If you buy unhealthy food, we slap a tax on you that goes towards healthcare coverage.

Ah, but what is unhealthy food? Some things seem to flip-flop. First eggs were bad, now they're good. Hard to keep up.

[Miulang]

How about a Fat Tax to go along with the Sin Tax that covers cigs?

If you buy unhealthy food, we slap a tax on you that goes towards healthcare coverage.

Yes what a brilliant idea!

:D
This already kind of exists in some states. For example, food that is not already processed (like raw vegetables, uncooked meat, milk, eggs, etc.) is not taxed, but deli food and soda and candy bars (basically anything processed) is taxed along with nonedible things like soap and toilet paper; prescription medications are not taxable but over the counter medicines bought at a drug store are taxable.

Miulang

[808shooter]

Ah, but what is unhealthy food? Some things seem to flip-flop. First eggs were bad, now they're good. Hard to keep up.

I propose creating a new Hawaii State Department of Food Assessment. It will be responsible for measuring how unhealthy a food item is and assess the appropriate tax.

:D

[GeckoGeek]

I propose creating a new Hawaii State Department of Food Assessment. It will be responsible for measuring how unhealthy a food item is and assess the appropriate tax.

:D

And watch all the special interest groups battle it out? That could be kinda entertaining.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

let's go all the way:

-in our public schools, everyone, both student and staff, should weigh in, and get alloted their school lunch according to Weight Watcher guidelines.

-its time to sue the high fructose corn syrup mafia and the enriched flour cartel.

-outlaw meats; too many cows on the planet as it is, wreckin' the environment. Let's make them, piggies, and goats all endangered species by underbreeding the suckers. Plus, the ocean will thank us, by letting the fishes grow back.

-and put tobacco on decriminalization status; no more Philip Morrises of the world. Private citizens are allowed to grow only three tobacco plants at a time, with their medical card...oh wait, my bad, I meant their religious card. Tobacco goes back into its native American sacrament status. So to get that religious card, you have to show on your tax returns that you contribute to the Native American Indian Churches (casinos).

:p

[sinjin]

Mark my words. Someday airlines will charge passengers by the pound. Maybe some taxes and insurance premiums could be similarly calculated.

[Miulang]

Mark my words. Someday airlines will charge passengers by the pound. Maybe some taxes and insurance premiums could be similarly calculated.
SWA already refuses to board avoirdupois-ly challenged people unless they want to spring for the price of a second seat.:eek: Their reasoning is that other people don't like having people "dripping over" in their seats into their neighbors' personal space.

Miulang

[808shooter]

Mark my words. Someday airlines will charge passengers by the pound. Maybe some taxes and insurance premiums could be similarly calculated.

actually I really think that one day in the not so distant future, folks predisposed to specific medical conditions will be charged an insurance premium based on their genetic profile.

I'm not so worried as I hope individual genetic mapping is affordable at the retail level in my lifetime.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/legislat.shtml

[808shooter]

SWA already refuses to board avoirdupois-ly challenged people unless they want to spring for the price of a second seat.:eek: Their reasoning is that other people don't like having people "dripping over" in their seats into their neighbors' personal space.

and you know what? I kinda feel bad for those folks that are totally overweight. They should get a discounted rate to first class because as uncomfortable as it is to sit next to them, it's gotta be worse for them.

[AlohaKine]

Obesity / morbid obesity will take 20 yrs of your life on average. Smoking is now 3 or 4 yrs. Cigs are safer now these days ( filters, chemistry changes, ect. ) and people smoke less than 30 years ago.

Better a smoker than a fatty.

[WindwardOahuRN]

and you know what? I kinda feel bad for those folks that are totally overweight. They should get a discounted rate to first class because as uncomfortable as it is to sit next to them, it's gotta be worse for them.

In my profession I see many morbidly obese patients. In addition, I have personally known quite a few people who have had gastric bypass surgery. What so many often forget is that there are real people, genuine souls, within those huge bodies.

As challenging as it is to take care of these people I cannot help but feel compassion for them. Whatever brought them to this point is irrelevant. Morbid obesity often brings terrible loneliness and isolation to its sufferers. I doubt very much that any of them would wish the terrible circumstances of their lives on their worst enemies.

That was a nice bit of compassion on your part, Shooter.

Happy Holidays....:)

[Leo Lakio]

What so many often forget is that there are real people, genuine souls, within those huge bodies.Example: think how much you would now give to be able to sit next to Israel Kamakawiwo`ole, just one time.

[sinjin]

Example: think how much you would now give to be able to sit next to Israel Kamakawiwo`ole, just one time.Just as long as it wasn't in coach.:D

[craigwatanabe]

Example: think how much you would now give to be able to sit next to Israel Kamakawiwo`ole, just one time.

I sat down next to him back in the days of Kaimuki Intermediate. Both of us were in the councellor's room after getting involved in separate fights. At first I didn't notice Israel sitting next to me because I was tending to my bloody nose.

Then this high voice said, "Eh Braddah Craig go use dis for your nose" and this tent of a shirt came flying over me. Yeah he was big even as a teenager. Israel...his friends call him that, everybody else called him IZ. :(

[AlohaKine]

In my profession I see many morbidly obese patients. In addition, I have personally known quite a few people who have had gastric bypass surgery. What so many often forget is that there are real people, genuine souls, within those huge bodies.

As challenging as it is to take care of these people I cannot help but feel compassion for them. Whatever brought them to this point is irrelevant. Morbid obesity often brings terrible loneliness and isolation to its sufferers. I doubt very much that any of them would wish the terrible circumstances of their lives on their worst enemies.

That was a nice bit of compassion on your part, Shooter.

Happy Holidays....:)

I think what you say is true. I would not force them to be thin if they didn't want to. Provide them with choice and information.

More and more smokers are not lonely, we are forced to form new "clicks".

[CranBeree]

for the smokers...have you seen what a smoker's lung(s) look like? just wondering? i used to smoke up to 2 pks a day. i quit when i started coughing blood and get winded going up my porch steps :P :eek: i quit 6 yrs ago.. my husband quit about 3 months ago...after beign a smoker of over 20 yrs.

[Composite 2992]

let's go all the way:

-outlaw meats; too many cows on the planet as it is, wreckin' the environment. Let's make them, piggies, and goats all endangered species by underbreeding the suckers. Plus, the ocean will thank us, by letting the fishes grow back.

:p

Human beings evolved as omnivores. No denying millions of years of evolution. Deprive someone of meat products long enough and they'll develop serious nerve disorders from the lack of vitamin B. Deprive them of fresh vegetables long enough and they'll develop scurvy. While you can get calcium from spinach you really get more useful calcium from dairy products.

As for "bad" foods, add potatos and white rice to that list. These have glycemic loads equivalent to that of pure sugar. And that can lead to the development of type 2 diabetes. Check out Harvard Medical's website for more info.

http://hms.harvard.edu/public/disease/nutrition/nutrition.html
http://hmiworld.org/hmi/issues/May_June_2005/around_diet_guide.html
http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/050465.html

All things in balance. Some fat is good. Too much is bad. Some red wine is good. Too much is bad. Especially the following morning!

As for tobacco, I have a friend whose funeral I attended a month ago. He was a smoker and didn't see his 53rd birthday. My dad smoked. Lung cancer got him. Same with my cousin. And my dad's best friends both got taken by emphysema. They were smokers, too.

[AlohaKine]

for the smokers...have you seen what a smoker's lung(s) look like? just wondering? i used to smoke up to 2 pks a day. i quit when i started coughing blood and get winded going up my porch steps :P :eek: i quit 6 yrs ago.. my husband quit about 3 months ago...after beign a smoker of over 20 yrs.

I've smoked over a pack a day for 16 years and I feel great. My chest doesn't hurt, I breath excellent according to the doctor's blow test machine, and I never cough up any blood. I've heard it affects different people differently. Kept me nice and lean also.

My father was a smoker. He quit at age 50 and gained over 100 lbs. He died of an OBESITY related heart attack at age 58. Non-smoking killed him.