Rebuilding Mo'okini Heiau?

[Miulang]

The 1,500 year old Mo'okini heiau (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061124/NEWS0101/611240367/1003/NEWS)on the Big Island suffered extensive damage during the Oct. 15 earthquake. Experts estimate that it would cost around $200,000 to find qualified kanaka maoli rock wall builders to restore the heiau.

But the current guardian of the heiau, kahu Leimomi Mookini Lum, has stated that she does not want the dislodged rocks to be disturbed:

"It has been here 1,500 years," she said. "I'm not going to change it. I'm 80. I don't look that good, but I looked good when I was 20."
Ah, to have the grace and the wisdom to know when it's OK to let something age (and deteriorate) in its own time and not try to fix it.:cool:

The Haida Indians on their native homeland in the Queen Charlotte Islands (Haida Gwai'i) have the same philosophy. Their ancestors carved incredible totem and funerary poles in ancient times. When the villages were abandoned, the totems were allowed to disintegrate into the mist rather than be salvaged and put into museums somewhere.

Miulang

[timkona]

Ah, to have the grace and the wisdom to know when it's OK to let something age (and deteriorate) in its own time and not try to fix it.

Allowing symbols of a culture to "age & deteriorate" gracefully in it's own time is part of the death of the overall culture.

Were I trying desperately to preserve and perpetuate a culture, it seems that restoring antiquities to their original state would be a good way to pass on so many cultural skills to a new generation ie Masonry, Rights of Worship, Social Heirerarchy, etc etc.

This is just more symptoms of "looking back" rather than "looking forward".

[Miulang]

Ah, to have the grace and the wisdom to know when it's OK to let something age (and deteriorate) in its own time and not try to fix it.

Allowing symbols of a culture to "age & deteriorate" gracefully in it's own time is part of the death of the overall culture.

Were I trying desperately to preserve and perpetuate a culture, it seems that restoring antiquities to their original state would be a good way to pass on so many cultural skills to a new generation ie Masonry, Rights of Worship, Social Heirerarchy, etc etc.

This is just more symptoms of "looking back" rather than "looking forward".

Then again, TK, you are from another culture and expect all cultures to behave as yours does...NOT! And thank god for that.

Miulang

[Jonah K]

Allowing symbols of a culture to "age & deteriorate" gracefully in it's own time is part of the death of the overall culture.

Were I trying desperately to preserve and perpetuate a culture, it seems that restoring antiquities to their original state would be a good way to pass on so many cultural skills to a new generation ie Masonry, Rights of Worship, Social Heirerarchy, etc etc.

This is just more symptoms of "looking back" rather than "looking forward".
I agree. Too bad Lum's family members lack the requisite skills to restore the heiau. Might as well finish knocking it down and construct some earthquake-proofed, affordable housing units in its place. ;)

[Miulang]

I agree. Too bad Lum's family members lack the requisite skills to restore the heiau. Might as well finish knocking it down and construct some earthquake-proofed, affordable housing units in its place. ;)

Unless the people for whom the heiau represents something worth restoring (i.e. the kanaka maoli) intercede and persuade kahu Lum that it is important to restore it, I think she is correct in her thinking.

Jonah, am I correct in understanding that the general public cannot tour the heiau anyway, that it is used for cultural education for kanaka maoli kids and for rituals reserved for the kanaka maoli?

Miulang

[Pua'i Mana'o]

If Mrs Lum would call upon the people to come and make a community service project out of it, the heiau would be restored. She is old and tired. Bless her, but this IS a sign that the next kahu should step forward, with Mrs Lum's blessing, and call upon the people to kokua.

This is about mana, not money.

[timkona]

Aloha Pua'i,

I hope that Kanaka Maoli decide to preserve and reconstruct the Heiau. It may be cultural/religious to Hawaiians, but it is also historical/important to society as a whole.

Aloha Miulang,

Please reconsider your position on this particular issue. Cultures may come and go, but the issues surrounding their perpetuation or demise are always rooted in the present. Mrs. Lum may be overwhelmed by the prospect of rebuilding due to her age. But youngsters, like yourself, can help to round up and motivate a new generation. Apathy will only help to accelerate the demise of the culture of these beautiful islands.


I enjoy a variety of cultural practices - Christmas, Thanksgiving, Juneteenth, Fishing, my daughter in Hula, Country Music, Cinco de Mayo, Football, etc etc. One does not need to be native to a given culture to feel the pain of cultural icons that are no longer deemed important.

I say rebuild the Heiau, and when you need some donations to help the cause, I am a good one to call.

[Miulang]

Aloha Pua'i,

I hope that Kanaka Maoli decide to preserve and reconstruct the Heiau. It may be cultural/religious to Hawaiians, but it is also historical/important to society as a whole.

Aloha Miulang,

Please reconsider your position on this particular issue. Cultures may come and go, but the issues surrounding their perpetuation or demise are always rooted in the present. Mrs. Lum may be overwhelmed by the prospect of rebuilding due to her age. But youngsters, like yourself, can help to round up and motivate a new generation. Apathy will only help to accelerate the demise of the culture of these beautiful islands.


I enjoy a variety of cultural practices - Christmas, Thanksgiving, Juneteenth, Fishing, my daughter in Hula, Country Music, Cinco de Mayo, Football, etc etc. One does not need to be native to a given culture to feel the pain of cultural icons that are no longer deemed important.

I say rebuild the Heiau, and when you need some donations to help the cause, I am a good one to call.
As Pua'i stated above: it is the duty of the kanaka maoli to restore their sacred heiau. It is not up to people on the outside to tell the kahu what should or should not be done to their "religious" icons. It's not about money, it's about mana. And if the kanaka maoli are apathetic (my guess is there are legions of them who are not and would very gladly help restore the temple if the kahu asked them for that), then they are the ones who will suffer the loss the most.

The reason I get creeped out in history museums is because of all the cultural relics that are on display. I keep thinking, "would the person who owned this xxxx really want others to see this?"

Miulang

[Jonah K]

Unless the people for whom the heiau represents something worth restoring (i.e. the kanaka maoli) intercede and persuade kahu Lum that it is important to restore it, I think she is correct in her thinking.

Jonah, am I correct in understanding that the general public cannot tour the heiau anyway, that it is used for cultural education for kanaka maoli kids and for rituals reserved for the kanaka maoli?

Miulang
Prior to the October 15th earthquake, the general public was allowed to visit the Mo'okini heiau. During the 1970s, the site was cleaned up by the Lums with help from the local community after it has fallen into disrepair over the years. Weeds were removed, trails were restored, and protective walls were constructed in order to preserve and maintain the site for future generations. As Pua'i has indicated, Lum is old and tired; however, no one in her family is quite yet ready and willing to take over the responsibility of maintaining the heiau (and usually a new kahuna nui can't take over until their predecessor dies). :(

No one thought twice about repairing the earthquake damage to Hulihe'e Palace....:cool:

[Miulang]

No one thought twice about repairing the earthquake damage to Hulihe'e Palace....:cool:

But Hulihe'e Palace is not a sacred temple, either.;)

Miulang

[Jonah K]

But Hulihe'e Palace is not a sacred temple, either.;)

Miulang
However, it is a historic site that's worth preserving like Mo'okini heiau. I wonder if Lum's Roman Catholic upbringing influenced her decision not to repair the heiau....:confused:

[Miulang]

However, it is a historic site that's worth preserving like Mo'okini heiau. I wonder if Lum's Roman Catholic upbringing influenced her decision not to repair the heiau....:confused:

Why do you think her Roman Catholic upbringing would influence her decision, though? Is she not supposed to be keeping the best interests of the kanaka maoli in mind?

Miulang

[Jonah K]

Why do you think her Roman Catholic upbringing would influence her decision, though? Is she not supposed to be keeping the best interests of the kanaka maoli in mind?

Miulang
If the Vatican were damaged by an earthquake, Lum would probably wish to repair it. ;)

Unfortunately, by allowing Mo'okini heiau to remain in a state of disrepair, she's not necessarily keeping the best interests of the kanaka maoli in mind -- she's keeping her own best interests in mind. :cool:

[SouthKona]

There might be more to this than just the Lum's opinions or wishes.

http://starbulletin.com/2006/11/23/news/story03.html

When Castle & Cooke Inc. and Bishop Estate donated the heiau to the state in 1978, the land transfer contained a stipulation that the state would have to consult with Lum or her successors on all matters relating to the heiau. Other stipulations banned archaeological excavations or restorations. Lum said she is committed to letting the structure age

Maybe restoration is forbidden under terms of the title transfer?

[Mike_Lowery]

Title transfer aside, I think Native Hawaiian traditions are best left to Native Hawaiians themselves--especially the preservation aspect. If I were a Native Hawaiian, I would not appreciate cultural and maybe even ethnic outsiders suggesting what should be done to a heiau.

From another scope, I don't like it when cockfights are considered cruelty to animals. Let me and my people have our derbies. :cool:

[Miulang]

Title transfer aside, I think Native Hawaiian traditions are best left to Native Hawaiians themselves--especially the preservation aspect. If I were a Native Hawaiian, I would not appreciate cultural and maybe even ethnic outsiders suggesting what should be done to a heiau.

From another scope, I don't like it when cockfights are considered cruelty to animals. Let me and my people have our derbies. :cool:
Question: when the cockfights are over, do the losers of the matches get put into a stewpot or are they just tossed into the opala pile?:confused:

Miulang

[Mike_Lowery]

Question: when the cockfights are over, do the losers of the matches get put into a stewpot or are they just tossed into the opala pile?:confused:

Miulang

True gamecock lovers won't eat their birds. Besides, gamecocks are too muscular to enjoy as a dish. Some fighters take'em home to bury'em, some dump'em in the bushes.

[Jonah K]

There might be more to this than just the Lum's opinions or wishes.

http://starbulletin.com/2006/11/23/news/story03.html

When Castle & Cooke Inc. and Bishop Estate donated the heiau to the state in 1978, the land transfer contained a stipulation that the state would have to consult with Lum or her successors on all matters relating to the heiau. Other stipulations banned archaeological excavations or restorations. Lum said she is committed to letting the structure age

Maybe restoration is forbidden under terms of the title transfer?
Under the title transfer, the heiau is allowed to be repaired; however, Lum gets the final "say-so" as to whether or not repairs are to take place. Funding and Lum's future successor are real underlying issues here. The budget of Mo'okini Luakini, Inc. has always been rather limited throughout the years and there's a distinct possibility that no one in Lum's 'ohana has been properly trained to eventually take over. Thus, in Lum's view, it's probably better to let the heiau fall into disrepair, instead of trying to maintain it. :(

Here are a few links that might be of interest...;)
http://www.hawaii.gov/lrb/passed/600sb.html
http://starbulletin.com/2001/07/01/news/story6.html
http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2004/06/14/daily81.html

[brianca]

Title transfer aside, I think Native Hawaiian traditions are best left to Native Hawaiians themselves--especially the preservation aspect.


that would be great if they native hawaiians all spoke with a single voice, but short of that there has to be a way to determine who speaks for the native hawaiians. I guess it's bumpy as the head of the restored kingdom?

[craigwatanabe]

I have to agree with Miulang on this one. Yes this heiau has historical value but it's also a sacred place. In the spiritual sense, this heiau was damaged for a reason. As the caretaker Lum would seem to have that spiritual understanding as to it's demise.

If the "Gods" so to speak had desired to have this heiau destroyed or damaged for a reason, we as mortals are not the ones to interpret it otherwise...meaning things happen for a reason. If Lum felt in her spiritual ways that this heiau needs to be left in this natural state then she has that final say.

The damage to this heiau was a natural occurance not one caused by man, so as stewards of the Aina Lum feels the damage was deliberately done by forces beyond our own (perhaps) and we shouldn't be meddling with nature or this spiritual act.

Circumventing the actions of any Hawaiian god is a no no and the only person closest to this heiau spiritually is kahu Leimomi Mookini Lum and she is the final say on this issue...she is an elder and her wisdom is one to be respected regarding this.

[brianca]

there is also the stance that Lum probably takes that the title transfer is not valid since no one owns the land in the first place. the caretakers can maintain it as they wish so long as they don't violate the laws of the nation.

[Mahi Waina]

gamecocks are too muscular to enjoy as a dish.

That's why you marinade them and make chicken papaya.

[1stwahine]

That's why you marinade them and make chicken papaya.

Many years before we would always partake in the delicious soups of chicken papaya or chicken paria made of gamecocks. However, it is too dangerous today to eat it. They use medicines to enhance the performance of the gamecocks to fight.:(

Auntie Lynn

[Leo Lakio]

Aloha Pua'i,
I hope that Kanaka Maoli decide to preserve and reconstruct the Heiau. It may be cultural/religious to Hawaiians, but it is also historical/important to society as a whole.
Aloha Miulang,
Please reconsider your position on this particular issue. Cultures may come and go, but the issues surrounding their perpetuation or demise are always rooted in the present. Mrs. Lum may be overwhelmed by the prospect of rebuilding due to her age. But youngsters, like yourself, can help to round up and motivate a new generation. Apathy will only help to accelerate the demise of the culture of these beautiful islands.As someone who has not made up their mind where they stand on this topic (and as an outsider from the subject, it would matter little what I decided anyway), I thank you all for the ongoing discussion and excellent points and perspectives. I particularly enjoyed reading this very respectful post from Tim.

[Jonah K]

I have to agree with Miulang on this one. Yes this heiau has historical value but it's also a sacred place. In the spiritual sense, this heiau was damaged for a reason. As the caretaker Lum would seem to have that spiritual understanding as to it's demise.

If the "Gods" so to speak had desired to have this heiau destroyed or damaged for a reason, we as mortals are not the ones to interpret it otherwise...meaning things happen for a reason. If Lum felt in her spiritual ways that this heiau needs to be left in this natural state then she has that final say.

The damage to this heiau was a natural occurance not one caused by man, so as stewards of the Aina Lum feels the damage was deliberately done by forces beyond our own (perhaps) and we shouldn't be meddling with nature or this spiritual act.

Circumventing the actions of any Hawaiian god is a no no and the only person closest to this heiau spiritually is kahu Leimomi Mookini Lum and she is the final say on this issue...she is an elder and her wisdom is one to be respected regarding this.
Ah...where to start. If one knows the stories of Pa'ao (a Samoan priest who extensively modified the Mo'okini heiau during the 11th Century and introduced the kapu system), Pilika'aiea (a Samoan chief who was a progenitor of Kamehameha), and Hewahewa (the last high priest of the Pa'ao line who converted to Christianity and actively destroyed most of the heiau during the 19th Century) it's somewhat ironic that Lum (a Christian descendant of Kuamo'o Mo'okini who first built a heiau at the site during the 5th Century) doesn't wish to see the earthquake damage repaired. :cool:

While I understand Lum's desire not to repair the earthquake damage at the Mo'okini heiau, it's probably going to negatively impact efforts to educate people about its history and traditions. As long as the mo'olelo of the Mo'okini heiau is passed on to future generations, the hundreds of kanaka maoli that were sacrificed there will not have died in vain. Less than ten years after the Waha'ula heiau in Puna (the first heiau built by Pa'ao in Hawai'i) was destroyed by a lava flow in 1997, most Puna residents know virtually nothing about it. :(

[Miulang]

Ah...where to start. If one knows the stories of Pa'ao (a Samoan priest who extensively modified the Mo'okini heiau during the 11th Century and introduced the kapu system), Pilika'aiea (a Samoan chief who was a progenitor of Kamehameha), and Hewahewa (the last high priest of the Pa'ao line who converted to Christianity and actively destroyed most of the heiau during the 19th Century) it's somewhat ironic that Lum (a Christian descendant of Kuamo'o Mo'okini who first built a heiau at the site during the 5th Century) doesn't wish to see the earthquake damage repaired. :cool:

While I understand Lum's desire not to repair the earthquake damage at the Mo'okini heiau, it's probably going to negatively impact efforts to educate people about its history and traditions. As long as the mo'olelo of the Mo'okini heiau is passed on to future generations, the hundreds of kanaka maoli that were sacrificed there will not have died in vain. Less than ten years after the Waha'ula heiau in Puna (the first heiau built by Pa'ao in Hawai'i) was destroyed by a lava flow in 1997, most Puna residents know virtually nothing about it. :(

Jonah, do you think having a kanaka maoli historical group (like the group that is responsible for the upkeep of Hulihe'e Palace) approach kahu nui and offer to help find the resources to rebuild Mookini luakini, that she might reconsider her stance? I mean, the very best reason for restoring it is so that 7 future generations of kanaka maoli kids will be able to see what their ancestors built.

Even though there are many photographs of the heiau, there is nothing like being able to see it in real life...to appreciate the enormity of the task of building it in the first place.

There are a couple of heiau in Waiehu called Pihanakalani and Hale Ki'i (above the Hawaiian Homelands subdivision) that I visit quite frequently. About the only thing remaining is the rock walls that helped shore up the sand hills upon which the temple stood. It's now on the State list of historical sites. The State at one time erected a ceremonial hut with thatched roof, but that has deteriorated over time, so that all that is left is a short rock wall that outlines the position of the hut. I go up there to see the panoramic view of Kahului Harbor and Central Maui, but I also go there to feel the wind that blows across that desolate-looking plain. Am I glad that this site has not been completely restored but allowed to weather as nature intended? Yes.

A large heiau that has been completely restored is Pi'ihanahale Heiau in Hana. I have walked next to that heiau and been blown away by the immense proportions (both in height and width). Am I glad that this heiau was restored completely? Yes.

Is each and every heiau as important as the next? I don't know enough ancient Hawaiian history to be able to tell. Maybe it's a matter of deciding that some heiau should be restored and others allowed to age and die gracefully.

Miulang

P.S. I think I may be related (through my late uncle) to the Mookini ohana, so I guess I have some "emotional" attachment to this heiau.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I think that the article was prematurely definitive. Through the makahiki season, opportunity will arise to allow for the bloodline of Pa'ao to grapple with this decision.

[Jonah K]

Jonah, do you think having a kanaka maoli historical group (like the group that is responsible for the upkeep of Hulihe'e Palace) approach kahu nui and offer to help find the resources to rebuild Mookini luakini, that she might reconsider her stance? I mean, the very best reason for restoring it is so that 7 future generations of kanaka maoli kids will be able to see what their ancestors built.
Officially, Mo'okini heiau hasn't been a luakini (a large heiau where ruling ali'i prayed and human sacrifices were offered) since the early 19th Century. During the late 1970s, Lum rededicated it as a heiau ho'ōla or a "healing heiau." Before Pa'ao enlarged it and turned it into a luakini during the 11th Century, Mo'okini heiau was a heiau waikaua or a "heiau used to insure success in war." As for a kanaka maoli group convincing Lum to allow repairs to the heiau, I'm sure that Lum gave her original decision much thought and I don't expect her to be swayed from it. Within 20 years or so, the decision to allow repairs to Mo'okini heiau will most likely be left to another person or entity anyway.


Is each and every heiau as important as the next? I don't know enough ancient Hawaiian history to be able to tell. Maybe it's a matter of deciding that some heiau should be restored and others allowed to age and die gracefully.

Miulang

P.S. I think I may be related (through my late uncle) to the Mookini ohana, so I guess I have some "emotional" attachment to this heiau.
Some heiau are historically important while many were not. A heiau ma'o or "green-stained kapa heiau" was pretty insignificant; however, a heiau po'o kanaka or "human-sacrifice heiau" was usually a more important affair. Mo'okini heiau (along with Pu'ukohola heiau and several others) are important because of their role in Hawaiian history. If these heiau are forgotten, it's kind of pointless to teach people about Kamehameha and other ruling ali'i. :cool:

I think that the article was prematurely definitive. Through the makahiki season, opportunity will arise to allow for the bloodline of Pa'ao to grapple with this decision.
The Mo'okini bloodline predates the Pa'ao bloodline by around six centuries. If I were a Mo'okini descendant, I'd probably tell those "Samoan interlopers" to take a hike. :p

[timkona]

Somehow I am drawn to this thread like a skeeter to a zapper on windless, humid night.

Everything that ages is worthy of a little reconditioning once in a while. I like to go to the bone doctor and get my "cracks" even though I'm still young. My house got new paint on the roof last year. The Palace was gettin a do-over before the earthquake even hit. The heiau, any heiau, (especially that birth heiau in Kahaluu, Kona for the ladies and the keiki) should be cleared of weeds and especially Kiawe, and some rocks that have fallen need to be place back up, and maybe there ought to be a day of learnin' & teachin', and Uncle gotta fire up the bbq, and there should be music and Hula and the party should go into the night.

And Mrs. Lum should be required to tell a story for at least 2 hours about everything she knows about the heiau to an audience consisting of all the 55-70 year olds at the party. And then all them old folks should dance for the memories and to show the youngsters what's happening.

Now that would be a party.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

If I were a Mo'okini descendant, I'd probably tell those "Samoan interlopers" to take a hike. :p

yeah yeah yeah...c'mon Jonah. You know better than this. Pa'ao came from Pago Pago, but he became of our genealogy. Just like Hawai'iloa. Just like Pele. And according to Kamakau, Pa'ao built both Waha'ula and Mo'okini; those rocks are of his mana, blessed by the blood of human sacrifice (((shudder))).

My na'au still says that her stand on this issue is the opening of the door for the next kahu to rise and take his/her place, earn her blessing, and then set to the task of rallying the kanaka to tend to our heiau. In fact, it might become that which we all rise to malama all of our heiau.


</hope>

[Jonah K]

yeah yeah yeah...c'mon Jonah. You know better than this. Pa'ao came from Pago Pago, but he became of our genealogy. Just like Hawai'iloa. Just like Pele. And according to Kamakau, Pa'ao built both Waha'ula and Mo'okini; those rocks are of his mana, blessed by the blood of human sacrifice (((shudder))).

My na'au still says that her stand on this issue is the opening of the door for the next kahu to rise and take his/her place, earn her blessing, and then set to the task of rallying the kanaka to tend to our heiau. In fact, it might become that which we all rise to malama all of our heiau.

That's why I said "if I were a Mo'okini descendant." While Pa'ao expanded the Mo'okini heiau, Kuamo'o Mo'okini was the one that first built it. As descendants of Pa'ao and Pilika'aiea, some of us are technically "Samoan interlopers." :cool:

There's probably a grandchild (or two) that Lum's training to eventually take over, so I'm willing to wait. A decade or so is but a small blip in the 1,500 year history of the Mo'okini heiau. ;)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

agreed.

(this is all I wanted to say, but since the board software bapped me for being too pithy, I shall say, "ok uso, I agree wit you" :p )