Do we want more trash or not?

[pzarquon]

Fascinating.

Much to the satisfaction of "let the market decide" folks, a private company has gotten federal approval to ship garbage to the mainland. Not to offer relief to a city whose landfills are overflowing and whose politicians refuse to commit to a solution (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=3877), but because it's cheaper to ship than to take it to a city facility.

Sure, the government toyed with the idea of shipping trash, but politicians lacked the will to push it very far. And a private company takes the initiative to do the legwork and paperwork to make sure it's okay to haul garbage across the sea.

So what thanks does this company get for innovative thinking, and reducing -- even if in a small way -- the amount of garbage going into our own overflowing dumps? Saving money, making more money, and paying more taxes like a good business should?

The city wants to stop them. The city wants that trash. Because the city needs the revenue it gets from charging refuse companies to dump at its dumps. Forget landfills and the environment and rampant NIMBY-ism, it's all about fees. Sheesh.

But... what's the city going to do? Assert a kind of "eminent domain" over trash? I mean, once I've given my garbage to ACME Co., can't ACME Co. do whatever it wants with it? Well, sort of. Actually, it's just that before, "paying the city to take it" was the only option. They've come up with another.

[helen]

Doesn't the city have a place to burn trash to make electrical power or has that been shutdown?

If the facility is still running having a steady flow of trash to make power is reasonable.

[lavagal]

To me it's interesting that in The Advertiser (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jan/11/br/br0346925187.html)article, the officials quoted seem to be pretty casual about what to do with the waste. when the Waimanalo Gulch was nearing capacity, plenty of area residents were raising a stink about it. It was just recently discussed (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007701090336), right?

[joshuatree]

I don't know, on one hand, alleviating the need for space for trash is great. But this seems to be the wrong way. I actually don't want to see trash shipped out. It makes our trash problem too convenient. If we are stuck with the trash, people learn to be more aware of recycling and how to make less trash. Conveniently shipping them away removes this urgency. As usual, people never act until they feel the pain. I'd say let the trash stay. I always try to minimize the amount of trash I make. So it doesn't bother me.

[pzarquon]

Doesn't the city have a place to burn trash to make electrical power or has that been shutdown?Yes, we have the H-Power plant. But trust me, there's a lot of waste that doesn't get burned for energy. A lot of it can't be so handled. Hence, the overflowing landfills.

Trust me, the problem is not a fear of running out of useful trash. It's not wanting to make a tough decision on choosing a new landfill location, but also not wanting to give up the fee income for the existing one now that someone's ready to ship the trash elsewhere.
As usual, people never act until they feel the pain. I'd say let the trash stay. I always try to minimize the amount of trash I make. So it doesn't bother me."Let the trash stay... where it is," you mean? I'd imagine residents near Waimanalo Gulch probably don't feel quite the same way. Long before you feel any pain, they'll be neck-deep in everyone's "minimized" trash. :)

Apparently there's a state law that controls where waste goes. I find that fascinating. If I put it in a trash bin and hand it over to a private company, they have to take it to a city landfill for a fee -- they can't ship it to the mainland. If I seal it in a box, though, the private company (or anyone) could send it to the mainland via the USPS with no problem. One man's trash...

[craigwatanabe]

One thing about living on the Big Island is that we don't have refuse pick up. As a result we tend to throw away only things we need to. The rest is recycled or sent to recycle centers.

At the Keaau recycle center/transfer station, items that would normally be thrown out such as aquariums, baby strollers, book cases and other household waste can be taken to the recycle section where people can take for free items that others throw out, you know...recycled?

But because we have to haul our own trash to the transfer stations, we tend to be more akamai about what we throw out to minimize what we have to haul in our cars.

Honestly if everybody was told they would have to throw out their own rubbish, we'd think twice before throwing away items that are still useful in a recycled way.

[alohakat]

You have no trash pick-up on the BI? Wow, not anywhere? (except, I'm sure, resorts...)

That would change one's trash habits greatly.

Are there private recyclers then?

[joshuatree]

"Let the trash stay... where it is," you mean? I'd imagine residents near Waimanalo Gulch probably don't feel quite the same way. Long before you feel any pain, they'll be neck-deep in everyone's "minimized" trash. :)

No, what I mean is to keep Oahu's trash, Oahu's trash. Perhaps a new landfill needs to be found but realistically, some place on the island will have to be a landfill. Just like some place on the island will have to be a cemetary, or a power plant, or a sewage treatment plant, etc. NIMBY everywhere will not make anything work. But since everyone is always NIMBY, maybe that will force people to be more mindful of how much trash they produce. Conveniently shipping it away will not foster any sense of responsibility. You say the poor residents near Waimanalo Gulch, what about whatever poor resident near the landfill where our trash will be shipped to?

[pzarquon]

You say the poor residents near Waimanalo Gulch, what about whatever poor resident near the landfill where our trash will be shipped to?Well, there's a lot more space on the Mainland to bury trash than on Oahu. Washington and Idaho want our trash (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/29/AR2006052900881_pf.html), and have "plenty of room." I doubt those landfills were plopped in someone's backyard (which you'd have to do on an island), and it sure sounds like the area benefits from the private industry.

And as I mentioned at the outset, this is primarily about money. Washington would make money taking our trash, the same way the city currently does. The only difference is, the city is coming up on a capacity crisis, as well as facing a clear lack of willpower. If our elected officials want to punt, how can they complain when someone else comes up with a better plan?

[GeckoGeek]

If I seal it in a box, though, the private company (or anyone) could send it to the mainland via the USPS with no problem. One man's trash...

There's this website called eBay..... :D :p

[joshuatree]

Well, there's a lot more space on the Mainland to bury trash than on Oahu. Washington and Idaho want our trash (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/29/AR2006052900881_pf.html), and have "plenty of room." I doubt those landfills were plopped in someone's backyard (which you'd have to do on an island), and it sure sounds like the area benefits from the private industry.

And as I mentioned at the outset, this is primarily about money. Washington would make money taking our trash, the same way the city currently does. The only difference is, the city is coming up on a capacity crisis, as well as facing a clear lack of willpower. If our elected officials want to punt, how can they complain when someone else comes up with a better plan?

It's true the mainland has more room but I don't really believe the people of Washington and Idaho want our trash, the waste management firms and the politicians with ties to them certainly do.

As for their landfill not being someone's backyard, who knows? Maybe it was once sacred ground for some natives? Heck, the cities of Milipitas and Montebello in California are built on top of old landfills. I mean, couldn't we just ship our garbage to Kahoolawe? No one lives there, no one's backyard. But I'm pretty sure you will say it has cultural value. I'm not against finding a resolution for our trash issue but I do find it hypocritical at times when people in Hawaii are so anti-mainland, don't come here, stay away. Yet, please take our trash? And as the article states, what about possibility of contamination? Bringing in non-native species?

[GeckoGeek]

Honestly if everybody was told they would have to throw out their own rubbish, we'd think twice before throwing away items that are still useful in a recycled way.

I disagree. The difference is that the BI has developed a convenient way to recycle/freecycle. Throwing away is the easy way to deal with what you no longer want. There's no freecycle bin out in front of the house.

[sinjin]

Where will the trash be shipped to?

[joshuatree]

I disagree. The difference is that the BI has developed a convenient way to recycle/freecycle. Throwing away is the easy way to deal with what you no longer want. There's no freecycle bin out in front of the house.

Or what if there was no service to pick up your garbage, you gotta bring it yourself to the neighborhood collection point. But there will be curbside service to pick up recyclables? Maybe that will maximize the incentive to minimize trash? :D

[GeckoGeek]

Or what if there was no service to pick up your garbage, you gotta bring it yourself to the neighborhood collection point. But there will be curbside service to pick up recyclables? Maybe that will maximize the incentive to minimize trash? :D

No doubt. The path of least resistance.

However, getting back to the BI, from the description, everyone is hauling both their trash and recyclables. They just stack the "good stuff" to one side where anyone can pick though it and take it home. So freecycling is just as easy as disposal. And it's done where everyone goes anyway, so it works. If something sits in the freecycle pile too long - makes the move to the other pile. All in all, a good solution.

[craigwatanabe]

I disagree. The difference is that the BI has developed a convenient way to recycle/freecycle. Throwing away is the easy way to deal with what you no longer want. There's no freecycle bin out in front of the house.


Before you disagree understand one thing we don't have bins of any sort in front of our houses either. Everything we recycle and throw away is hauled to the transfer stations where recycle stations are located.

Believe it or not Oahu has transfer stations too but many of you on Oahu fail to utilize them. Waimanalo has a transfer station, so does Pearl City.

And yes throwing away things is the easy way out and that's why these recycle centers are located AT the transfer stations where one would discard unusable items.

Oahu has become so used to trash pick up that one starts to become complacent on recycling. We don't have recycle bins for trucks to pick up, we take them to the same recycle centers for the HI-5 programs. But we recycle a lot more than plastics and aluminum cans. We recycle durable goods. Kinda like a Good Will store but you don't get a receipt for a "donation" and you don't have to pay when you see that discarded but perfectly good TV set in the recycle shed.

[Miulang]

I thought the issue of Honolulu's shipping of opala to the Mainland was make die dead. But according to this story (http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/12170192/detail.html), the Honolulu City Council is supposed to meet with the Mayor to iron out details for having it happen.

People keep talking about "ways to solve the 'opala problem." Perhaps in the short run, shipping it to Washington would keep the Waimanalo landfill open a few more years, but that solution is denying the root cause of the problem: too many people not practicing enough recycling; too many people consuming too much that creates too much waste. Is the County doing all it can to promote recycling? Are consumers looking at the waste they are producing and doing things to stop creating it?

Maybe instead of talking about cramming more people into smaller units in higher buildings, the time has come to start talking about limiting population density and growth as well as where people can build homes.

As controversial as it may be to some folks, maybe there's something to be said for returning Hawai'i to a sovereign nation: at least then it could control the number of people moving to Hawai'i, which can't be done as long as Hawai'i is a state.

Miulang

P.S. the area in Washington where they are proposing to dump your trash is kinda in the middle of nowhere---for now (it's near Roosevelt, WA). So until and unless development encroaches on it, that landfill should be pretty much out of the way of everyone. And the way they treat waste today in landfills is markedly different from how they used to treat it anyway...on Maui, the old Apana "junkyard" (the place where opala was dumped before the Central Maui landfill in Puunene was created) is now filled over and has become part of Maui Lani, where McMansions are being built. Back in the days when that landfill was active, people would throw EVERYTHING---garbage, motor oil, you name it---much of it toxic and potentially still capable of leaching through to the ground on which those megamansions are being built...and do you really think many of the homeowners know what's under the ground their houses are built on?

[Miulang]

the area in Washington where they are proposing to dump your trash is kinda in the middle of nowhere---for now (it's near Roosevelt, WA). So until and unless development encroaches on it, that landfill should be pretty much out of the way of everyone. And the way they treat waste today in landfills is markedly different from how they used to treat it anyway...
Roosevelt, WA (http://www.a2zgorge.info/community/towns/roosevelt.htm), pop, < 100 inhabitants (79 as of the 2000 census)
The Roosevelt Landfill is considered a state-of-the-art 10.5 MW landfill gas fueled power plant. It is located in a remote landfill site in Roosevelt, Washington for Utility District No. 1. of Klickitat County. The facility incorporates five reciprocating internal combustion engines that burn filtered, dried and compressed landfill gas. The project was completed in 1999. Roosevelt Landfill is lined with compacted clay and high density polyethylene plastic, to prevent "leachate" from contaminating the groundwater. Leachate is the result of rainwater leaching pollutants out of the garbage. Pipes collect the leachate so it can be treated safely. A different set of pipes collects the methane gas which naturally results from decomposing garbage. The gas is pulled through the pipes and burned above ground in high temperature "flares." This prevents contaminants in the methane gas from polluting the air. The garbage is dumped into "cells," or sections, to manage leachate and to systematically organize the unloading procedure. Every day the garbage is covered with soil to eliminate odors and to discourage seagulls, rodents, and other scavengers. The Roosevelt Landfill property covers 2,545 acres (2.5 times the size of Lake Stevens or 10 times larger than Green Lake in Seattle). Through the jobs provided, the Roosevelt landfill is a significant economic contributor to Klickitat County. Source: Snohomish Solid Waste System


Miulang

[GnosticWarrior]

IMaybe instead of talking about cramming more people into smaller units in higher buildings, the time has come to start talking about limiting population density and growth as well as where people can build homes.

As controversial as it may be to some folks, maybe there's something to be said for returning Hawai'i to a sovereign nation: at least then it could control the number of people moving to Hawai'i, which can't be done as long as Hawai'i is a state.



I think the easiest path would be for Kanaka Maoli to maximize all entitlements available to them. I am not one so I didn't spend anytime to see what they have. But, if they can receive a private school education and housing at a cheaper costs than the average local, then they should be able to have less expenses and have a greater ability to save money. Invest this money saved and their financial wealth would compound overtime. As the generations get more educated and investments grow they should become more influencial and have greater resources in determining the destiny of Hawaii. Being frugal and using only what one truly needs doesn't seem like it would be a foreign concept to the Kanaka Maoli.

If the technology that exists today where available to the Kanaka Maoli during the times of Capt. Cook's arrival and the knowledge of world wide trends were possible, would the sovereignty of the Kanaka Maoli remain intact till today? Would they have been able to prepare themselves for the changes to come? Better to have been conquered by America than anyone else right? Well I believe that today the ability to gain knowledge of global trends is possible. When an earthquake happens else where in the world we in Hawaii can know of this and can prepare for what might possibly happen. Kanaka Maoli or not, those who are born and raised in Hawaii, what are you doing to prepare for the global forces occuring? Legal recognition or anything that depends on govt. is a high opportunity cost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost) to me. The only person one can truly rely on to do what is necessary to accomplish the objective is him/her self. If others are willing to move in the same direction, more power to everyone.