"Rome" on HBO [Archive] - HawaiiThreads.com

zff

January 17th, 2007, 09:21 AM

Anyone here watch "Rome" on HBO?

I know there are at least a few, since I found one thread (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=10336) that mentions it. To be honest though, I'm a little surprised there appear to be so few here that watch it. It's a fantastic show!

The second season started this week, and watching the first episode, I remember why I love this show so much. It picks up right where season one left off, with Caesar's body still lying on the senate floor and Mark Antony still standing just outside.

For those of you who watched it...

Do you think Erastes Fulmen really killed Vorenus's children? The part of me that likes happy endings hopes not, but I think it will be interesting to see how losing everyone he loves unravels the normally moral Vorenus. It will also be interesting to see if marriage will change the normally not-so-moral Pullo.

I'm also eager to witness Octavian's carefully calculated brutality as he takes control of Rome and wages war with Mark Antony. I love the way the writers put a bit of spin on history, so it will be interesting to how much Octavia (having been left by Antony for Cleopatra) had to do with her brother going after Antony and Cleopatra.

I just hope the second season covers that much since it's going to be the last. From what I've read, the show just costs too much to produce. I've read that an older actor will play Octavian from episode 6 and on, so I'm hoping we'll at least get to see a Roman emperor by the last episode.

AbsolutChaos

January 17th, 2007, 03:03 PM

My boyfriend enjoys watching it. I don't have HBO myself, so I miss out on a lot of great HBO shows. I kinda like Entourage, but that's another thread.

Marco

January 17th, 2007, 04:55 PM

Haha, I forgot I even started that thread. Probably because it seemed like there was only one or two other people here that followed HBO.

Anyways, I love reading about ancient history and so was a big fan of the first season of "Rome". We had HBO last year, but had to cancel it because it was just too expensive. But I got a buddy of mine to tape the first episode of season 2 for me and watched it the other day. Good stuff.

As for your spoiler questions (I don't know how you did that spoiley thing, but doesn't seem like it matters anyways since I think we're the only two that watch it here :p ):
- I think Vorenus' children are still alive. Fulmen knew that he was a dead man, and wanted it to be quick and painless. So he told Vorenus something that would enrage him and make him do what he did. At least, that's how I saw it. My slant on it is Fulmen prolly sold them as slaves and maybe they'll appear toward the end of the season to save Vorenus from the dark road he seems headed.
- I like how Vorenus and Pullo seemed to have switched places: now Vorenus is the bad boy and Pullo is the conservative married man. It looks like Vorenus is going to be the new leader of the Aventine, from the previews of the next episode.
- Octavian and Antony should be really interesting to watch. The kid who plays Octavian is great. That kinda sucks that they're going to replace him with an older actor midway thru this season.
- I loved that scene where Antony kills Pompei's son. Just had to mention that.

One thing I wish they had shown was Antony's famous speech at Caesar's funeral. Oh well.

Oh, and just in case Tiabla reads this (from my original thread): we just got thru the first season of "The Wire" and are partway thru the second season. You're right, it's a fantastic show. Omar might be right up there with Al Swearengen as my favorite character of all time!

cynsaligia

January 17th, 2007, 06:17 PM

oh, i love love love "rome." i stayed up til 4:00 a.m. on a monday morning once to watch several eppies at once off of HBO on demand. i got the beau addicted, sorta, too.

vorenus is HOT!! and the beau doesn't mind i hold that opinion.

zff

January 17th, 2007, 06:26 PM

One thing I wish they had shown was Antony's famous speech at Caesar's funeral. Oh well.I KNOW! Me too! I was looking forward to that during the entire off-season. I figured they would either show it in the first or second episodes. I was a little disappointed with that.

- I think Vorenus' children are still alive. Fulmen knew that he was a dead man, and wanted it to be quick and painless. So he told Vorenus something that would enrage him and make him do what he did. At least, that's how I saw it. My slant on it is Fulmen prolly sold them as slaves and maybe they'll appear toward the end of the season to save Vorenus from the dark road he seems headed. [...] It looks like Vorenus is going to be the new leader of the Aventine, from the previews of the next episode.It would be interesting to see Vorenus build a successful criminal business -- with criminal commitments he can't back out of -- only to have everything go into an upheaval again when he discovers his children are alive. He's still a senator, isn't he?

- I loved that scene where Antony kills Pompei's son. Just had to mention that.Yes, that was a great scene. I also loved that scene where Fulmen, disgusted at Antony's conduct at Caesar's funeral, was going on about dignity and respect -- despite what was going on on the staircase behind him. Did you catch that? Hilarious.

Marco

January 17th, 2007, 11:06 PM

vorenus is HOT!! and the beau doesn't mind i hold that opinion.

lol. Vorenus is hot, eh? My wife thinks that Pullo is hot. I'm horrified at the lack of taste that both of you show :p . Where's da love for Antony?

It would be interesting to see Vorenus build a successful criminal business -- with criminal commitments he can't back out of -- only to have everything go into an upheaval again when he discovers his children are alive. He's still a senator, isn't he?

Hmm. You're right. Vorenus is still technically a senator, given that Antony's bribe worked and they all keep their status. It should be veeeeery interesting to see what kind of storyline they go with that. I assumed that Vorenus was going to be the new underworld boss, like Tony Soprano. I wonder how he'll balance that with his political position?

Yes, that was a great scene. I also loved that scene where Fulmen, disgusted at Antony's conduct at Caesar's funeral, was going on about dignity and respect -- despite what was going on on the staircase behind him. Did you catch that? Hilarious.

Haha. No I missed it. I'll have to go back and check that out.

I also forgot to mention the scene where Brutus looks at his mom and says "You too, Mother?" Classic. I assume it's a play on the whole "Et tu Brutus?" that Caesar is supposed to have said when Brutus stabbed him. I've read differing accounts, but the most accurate states that Caesar didn't say anything to Brutus. Anyways, I like how they put that in there. Very clever and funny.

I'd also say that the relationship between Vorenus and Pullo is really touching. The affection that the two have for each other is really genuine. I think I've rewound and played that gladiator fight from season one at least 20 times!

Can't wait for the next episode...

Tiabla

January 18th, 2007, 10:11 AM

zff

January 18th, 2007, 01:42 PM

I also forgot to mention the scene where Brutus looks at his mom and says "You too, Mother?" Classic. I assume it's a play on the whole "Et tu Brutus?" that Caesar is supposed to have said when Brutus stabbed him. I've read differing accounts, but the most accurate states that Caesar didn't say anything to Brutus. Anyways, I like how they put that in there. Very clever and funny.You sound like you're a big fan of history, or at least of ancient Roman history. I was always fascinated by their engineering achievements, but the actual events and people have never interested me much.

Until now.

Ever since I started watching this show, I've read gigabytes worth of stuff on Roman history, including places, events and people from Romulus to Constantine the Great. All very fascinating stuff.

I'm sure history purists are probably complaining about the liberties the show's writers are taking, but I think it's all great. I've read enough to know Octavia should have children or Octavian should've been in Illyria, but if the writers hadn't "tarted up" the stories a bit, I might never have been interested enough to learn those things on my own.

Besides, I think the show provides wonderful insight into what life must have been like back then. I love the little throw-away scenes like Caesar's and Atia's slaves discussing dinner party plans or Vorenus's younger daughter scurrying across a deserted forum.

reineke

January 20th, 2007, 06:36 PM

Kinda pricey but Netflix should have it as well. One of my favorites :) BTW, anyone who liked Rome should try I, Claudius. It's a bit dated (1977) and Romans sometimes look a tad too British lol but the story is very gripping. Based on a just as addictive novel by Robert Graves.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FJH4X2/bookstorenow59-20

http://www.amazon.com/I-Claudius-Derek-Jacobi/dp/B00004U12X/sr=1-1/qid=1169353963/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8111672-4794547?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

buzz1941

January 20th, 2007, 09:17 PM

Try also Robert Harris' novels "Imperium" and "Pompeii."

kiwidiva

January 21st, 2007, 05:50 AM

ROME ROCKS!

My husband heard about it so bought Season 1 on DVD and we both totally got hooked. If you don't have HBO, definitely buy the DVD - it's a bit pricey but I think it's worth it.

An added feature in the DVD is the interactive onscreen guide prepared by the series' historical consultant, Jonathan Stamp. It helped us to understand a lot of the rituals that were performed and the language used.

Now that the second season has started, we have HBO and I loved the first episode but I think I preferred watching it on DVD. For one thing, we didn't have to wait a week for the next installment! Also, I miss the interactive guide, I mean, why did that fat lady put her nipple into the mouth of Cesar's corpse? I suppose I could look it up but I miss that whole, touch of a button convenience.

What I didn't like is that 2 of my favorite characters were killed off at the end of season 1 - Niobe and Cesar. My husband is glad Niobe is dead (well, he's about to leave for Iraq and has warned me not to "do a Niobe" while he's away at war - LOL) and as for Cesar, as my husband said, we knew he was going to die. Yes, we knew it was going to happen and we knew how and we even knew when but I'm still going to miss him. The actor who portrayed Cesar (Ciaran Hinds) is BRILLIANT!

Pullo IS hot and so is Antony! Just love those BAD BOYS! :p

zff

January 22nd, 2007, 03:24 PM

An added feature in the DVD is the interactive onscreen guide prepared by the series' historical consultant, Jonathan Stamp. It helped us to understand a lot of the rituals that were performed and the language used.Wow, that makes the DVDs worth it right there.

Regarding the most recent episode... did anyone catch what Atia whispered into Cleopatra's ear?

Marco

January 22nd, 2007, 04:42 PM

I must admit I was unimpressed with Rome. While the production values were amazing (and they better be for $100 million!), I found the story lacking. The characters seemed cartoonish and the story was plodding at times. Rome is still better than 90% of what's out there, but I didn't think it was up to par with the other great HBO dramas. Still, I just read a New Yorker review in which a reviewer who was lukewarm about the first season loved the second season, so I'll probably check out the second season when it comes out on DVD.

That's too bad you didn't like it. I'm not gonna try to change your mind, cuz I everyone's got their own tastes, but I don't think the characters were that cartoonish. Not anymore so than a gay, black, Robin Hood figure who robs from the bad and gives to the good while walking around with a shotgun and whistling the Farmer in the Dell :p . I'll admit that it can be a little slow, but I'm into Roman history, and it doesn't bother me much.

Regarding the most recent episode... did anyone catch what Atia whispered into Cleopatra's ear?
I just watched it earlier this afternoon and I didn't catch it all, but I heard the word "trollop" at the end. So I doubt the beginning of it was a feel-good farewell.

And to your earlier post, yeah, I'm a big fan of ancient history: Roman, Greek, you name it. Unfortunately, it's not my major, but whenever I get a chance at a free elective, I'll take a history class.

Great second episode. Really intense encounters: Antony/Atia with Cleopatra, Antony with Vorenus, Antony with Octavian. I guess the common theme is Antony. The guy who plays him is just amazing.

You caught who was in those slave wagons at the end of the episode, yeah?
:D

zff

January 22nd, 2007, 05:47 PM

Great second episode. Really intense encounters: Antony/Atia with Cleopatra, Antony with Vorenus, Antony with Octavian. I guess the common theme is Antony. The guy who plays him is just amazing.

You caught who was in those slave wagons at the end of the episode, yeah?
:DYes, I did! Your theory was correct!

I really liked that fight between Antony and Octavian. It was sloppy and realistic, not the typical choreographed Hollywood fight sequence. It sort of reminded me of the fight between Tony Soprano and Ralph Cifaretto, except in Rome's case, I knew no one was going to die.

Marco

January 31st, 2007, 02:17 PM

I really liked that fight between Antony and Octavian. It was sloppy and realistic, not the typical choreographed Hollywood fight sequence. It sort of reminded me of the fight between Tony Soprano and Ralph Cifaretto, except in Rome's case, I knew no one was going to die.

Another classic fight was the one between Dan and Captain Turner from the third season of Deadwood. HBO knows how to depict realistic fights. They're so far ahead of the curve when it comes to quality compared to network television.

**************

Just watched last weeks episode and here's a few of my thoughts (note: spoilers ahead)

What I liked:

The scene between the slave/assassin and Servilia. Great dialogue, great acting.
Antony's reaction as Ciceros speech was read. The guy who plays Antony really does a great job of showing what a self-destructive mess Antony was. I think he's one of the best characters currently on TV. Also, I felt bad for the poor schmuck who had to read Cicero's speech. lol
I liked Brutus' Jesus scene for some reason.
Finally seeing Agrippa.

What I didn't like:

I know there are major time gaps that have to be filled in since this is the last season, but some scenes seemed way too rushed. It would have been nice if they could've smoothly transitioned the time leaps.
I don't like how they did the split between Pullo and Vorenus. I think the reason for it is because the two are going to end up being on opposite sides (Pullo with Octavian, Vorenus with Antony), but it still seems like Vorenus was way too quick to end their relationship after all they'd been thru.
The historical inaccuracies bug me a little. Like portraying Cicero as a spineless coward. That's not quite accurate. He wasn't so much a coward as a survivor. And he didn't defy Antony until the Philippics. And Octavia was by all accounts a strong and intelligent woman, not this weak, clueless little girl that the show portrays her to be.

Anyways, this is the best show on television, in my opinion (though that should be taken with a grain of salt. The only other shows I currently watch are ESPN, Animal Planet/National Geographic, and cartoons).

zff

February 6th, 2007, 01:11 AM

Wow, this week's episode was awesome.

The cold war between Atia and Servilia isn't so cold anymore, ay? According to what I've read on Wikipedia, both are supposed to die soon. Looks like it's going to be good. I wonder what the hell Timon is going to do now, and I wonder if Atia is going to send anyone after him.

I don't think this new older Octavian looks anything like the previous one, but I still see an uncanny resemblance.

What I didn't like:
The historical inaccuracies bug me a little. Like portraying Cicero as a spineless coward. That's not quite accurate. He wasn't so much a coward as a survivor. And he didn't defy Antony until the Philippics. And Octavia was by all accounts a strong and intelligent woman, not this weak, clueless little girl that the show portrays her to be.
Most of what I know about the period is what I've learned since I started watching the show, but yeah, I know what you mean.

I like to imagine that some of these historical inaccuracies are due to the fact that history is mostly written by its victors. I'd imagine Octavian would've wanted history to remember his sister as a strong woman and to forget the relationship his mother had with Antony. I know that doesn't explain away all the discrepancies, but it's a fun theory to entertain while watching the show.

cynsaligia

February 9th, 2007, 05:13 AM

Regarding the most recent episode... did anyone catch what Atia whispered into Cleopatra's ear?

"die screaming, you pig-spawned trollop."

i wish we still insulted each other so colorfully today. ;)

kiwidiva

February 10th, 2007, 10:37 PM

That was a classic line! What a pity some of you didn't hear it!!

Pua'i Mana'o

February 11th, 2007, 09:00 AM

"die screaming, you pig-spawned trollop."

i wish we still insulted each other so colorfully today. ;)

sort of on-tangent: for years, my friends and I would joke if pidgin evolved a bit differently in reconciliation with the evolution of English from the 19th century until now, to wit:

What doth you like?
Witherfore stay 'oe?
Begone with thine dumb ass!

and so forth...

zff

February 12th, 2007, 02:02 PM

This last episode was kind of interesting... What do you suppose Atia is up to, and do you think Octavian bought it?

Marco

February 13th, 2007, 12:52 AM

This last episode was kind of interesting... What do you suppose Atia is up to, and do you think Octavian bought it?

I'm not really sure what you mean. What do you think Octavian should have "bought"?

It's historical fact that Octavian teamed up with Antony and Lepidus to form their triumvirate and defeat Brutus and Cassius. So, even as weak as they made Lepidus seem in the episode, it's still historically accurate, as far as I know.

The new Octavian really came into his own, in this episode. I hated the switch in the previous episode, but I have to admit, the new guy captures all the mannerisms and accents of the young Octavian perfectly. He was 21 when he formed the Triumvirate and defeated Brutus at Phillippi, so I reluctantly agree that it was the right choice to make that change.

I liked this episode a lot (big surprise, yeah?), but I was a little surprised at a couple of things:
- Octavian not anticipating Ciceros countermove after declaring Brutus and Cassius murderers. He seemed to show a lot more intelligence in the first season, and should have anticipated that move. At least in my opinion, he should have.
- The Vorenus and Pullo relationship is still interesting, but I don't like how they seem totally separated from historical events, which is opposite from what occurred in the first season. i.e. Pullo actually fathering Cleopatra's baby, their encounter with Pompeii and letting him go free, Vorenus playing a role into how Caesar was murdered, etc. I dunno. I just liked how they were portrayed as unintentional players in history in the first season. Now, it seems like their roles are rather inconsequential.

I'm looking forward to next week, where we might actually see a battle occur. I loved Antony's cameo and hope he gets more screen time next week. They could devote an entire episode on Antony going shishi and I'd watch it!

zff

February 13th, 2007, 03:14 PM

I'm not really sure what you mean. What do you think Octavian should have "bought"?Well, Atia is not one to apologize to anyone, not even her own son, unless it was part of a greater (and probably more sinister) self-serving scheme. On the surface, it would appear that she is making reparations with her son because she realizes he is a stronger ally than Antony. I think this is what she wants Octavian to believe, and I think he bought it.

I don't buy it though. I think Atia is up to something evil, but I'm not sure what. Whatever it is, I'm sure it doesn't end well for Octavian. I suspect she and Antony are conspiring to kill him, actually. I don't see how Atia was able to talk Antony into the triumvirate so easily without promising him Octavian's head eventually.

The Vorenus and Pullo relationship is still interesting, but I don't like how they seem totally separated from historical events, which is opposite from what occurred in the first season. i.e. Pullo actually fathering Cleopatra's baby, their encounter with Pompeii and letting him go free, Vorenus playing a role into how Caesar was murdered, etc. I dunno. I just liked how they were portrayed as unintentional players in history in the first season. Now, it seems like their roles are rather inconsequential.YES! YES! YES! I wholeheartedly agree. That is the biggest thing the show is missing this season. I especially loved it when we see the attack on Marc Antony on the way to the Senate had nothing to do with stopping his veto; it was because someone wanted revenge on Pullo for killing a cheating gambler the night before. That was hilarious.

History (as far as I know) has no record of Atia and Antony being involved, so it was necessary for Octavian to have Antony marry his sister to solidify the triumvirate. The show tells a different story, however, and I don't quite see how the writers will justify Antony marrying Octavia. I hope some clever and interesting twist will explain this all in the next few episodes, and I hope it involves Vorenus and/or Pullo.

WindwardOahuRN

February 13th, 2007, 04:17 PM

ARRRGGGH!

When I saw the listings for "Rome" I figured they were reruns. Like the "Sopranos" and "Six Feet Under" stuff.

I can't believe I've missed the first few episodes of this season.

Anyone know if they'll be doing one of those "catch up" marathons?

Marco

February 15th, 2007, 10:30 AM

Well, Atia is not one to apologize to anyone, not even her own son, unless it was part of a greater (and probably more sinister) self-serving scheme. On the surface, it would appear that she is making reparations with her son because she realizes he is a stronger ally than Antony. I think this is what she wants Octavian to believe, and I think he bought it.

I don't buy it though. I think Atia is up to something evil, but I'm not sure what. Whatever it is, I'm sure it doesn't end well for Octavian. I suspect she and Antony are conspiring to kill him, actually. I don't see how Atia was able to talk Antony into the triumvirate so easily without promising him Octavian's head eventually.

Shoots, I see what you mean now. You could be right, but I think you're giving too much credit to Atia. In my opinion, she's above average in intelligence and has a certain cunning, but not even close as akamai as she thinks she is, when compared to thinkers like Caesar and Octavian. And I really doubt Atia would conspire to kill her own son. As nasty and mean as she is, she does seem to care in her own strange way about her children. And I know the show is taking liberties with history (which doesn't bother me as much as it used to), but Atia is supposed to have died by now. Servilia, too.

YES! YES! YES! I wholeheartedly agree. That is the biggest thing the show is missing this season. I especially loved it when we see the attack on Marc Antony on the way to the Senate had nothing to do with stopping his veto; it was because someone wanted revenge on Pullo for killing a cheating gambler the night before. That was hilarious.

Yah, that was really funny. They've accidentally shaped Roman history all by themselves! I guess you could say it started right in the first episode of season one, when they rescued Octavian from the Gauls and brought him to Caesar after finding his Eagle standard. If they hadn't done that, Octavian would prolly have been killed or enslaved, and that would be the end of that.

Windward: I'm not sure, but I always thought they didn't do those marathons until just before the last episode, or near that time. You could probably catch up using HBO On Demand. There's only 4-5 episodes left, I think.

WindwardOahuRN

February 18th, 2007, 08:36 AM

Windward: I'm not sure, but I always thought they didn't do those marathons until just before the last episode, or near that time. You could probably catch up using HBO On Demand. There's only 4-5 episodes left, I think.

Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for it.

And I think I'll avoid this thread for now. :)

cynsaligia

March 19th, 2007, 04:19 AM

:(

gaaaaah...if i understand correctly, tonight's eppy of rome (episode 21--something in latin that means something like, even the gods cannot stop a hungry man) next to last. i love this show terribly--almost as much as i loved BtVS, but perhaps more intensely, since its lifetime is shorter. it's great how what each character does or does not do affects another or others in unexpected ways. here are some predictions, which i've marked as spoilers bcs they might reveal stuff those who haven't kept up don't wanna know...yet:

pullo and vorenus end up having to fight on opposite sides. vorenus dies, but before doing so, he tells pullo what really happened with niobe. pullo then goes back and tells the children, and they forgive him. we see vorenus "dreaming" as he dies, that he is reunited with niobe.

ceasarion finds out about pullo.

we find out who antonia's father really is, or perhaps agrippa "becomes" her father after antony & cleopatra's defeat.

octavian, atia and octavia all make nice.

the truth about timon's brother comes out (tho this part of the story, i think, is poorly developed).

i never thought atia to be completely coldhearted, and the last couple eppies bear this out. she may be cunning, but i thought her cunning to be more "respectable" than servilia's and truly with her family's well-being, not just her own, in mind. after a certain point, servilia was all about personal revenge wrapped up in the "good of the republic." talk about psycho biotch!!

and how was brutus' "jesus" scene??! it made enough of an impression on me that, when the beau and a friend and i (we all watch rome), recently watched the 007 movie, "casino royale," and i spotted the actor who plays brutus chatting with M, i hissed, "JESUS!"

interesting how pullo and vorenus, as time goes by, become more and more like each other, or seem to trade places. they seemed so unlikely a pairing in the first eppy of the series.

i love the tension between antony and vorenus. with antony's propensity to stick his hoo ha anywhere and vorenus' uptightedness, i joke inwardly that in the end, they become lovers and live happily ever after. ;)

i read someplace that this may not be the last season, as earlier reported. the actor who plays pullo has supposedly said that he'd signed a five year contract. i'm too lazy to check on the internets if this is true. anyone else hear this, or better, know?