Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

[mel]

I stand corrected. You get a $10 discount for holding a HawaiianMiles card and booking a trip from the Mainland to Hawaii.....

While this topic has drifted, the central theme of this thread is "Hawaii's Interisland Air War," not the competition local airlines face on mainland and overseas route. So naturally when anyone mentions another discount, I am thinking "interisland" because this is where the "war" is taking place.

The air war was top of the news on Channel 2 KHON (http://www.khon2.com/news/local/4937896.html) tonight. It's at a point where the Hawaii Tourism Authority is concerned about the long term effects of the battle:

“Unprofitable airlines will cut back on service or ultimately could go out of business, which ultimately would not be good for the service of this state,” says Frank Haas, the Vice President of Marketing for Hawaii’s Tourism Authority....

Still the flying public loves the low prices afforded by the competition. They interviewed one lady who brought her children with her from Kauai to HNL for the price on what it cost her to fly alone last year.

And while the air fare war may not benefit the "local" airlines in the long run, the public definitely benefits as there are all kinds of price options to choose from in the current climate.

The report ended on a note that prices may rise next year.

So as I have said several times in these threads, "enjoy the ride" because we can never tell when prices shoot up to $100 each way between Lihue - HNL -Kahului - Kona - Hilo....

[joshuatree]

So as I have said several times in these threads, "enjoy the ride" because we can never tell when prices shoot up to $100 each way between Lihue - HNL -Kahului - Kona - Hilo....

If the airfare ever goes back to the "old" days, you will see history repeat itself. The number of people flying interisland will contract again, maybe even more this time because we will supposedly see the Superferry in the near future so that should shrink the size of the interisland pie regardless. Then the local airlines will lose money until the next bankruptcy.

[mel]

Aloha Airlines is reporting a 3rd Quarter loss of $10 million.

Details at this link. (http://starbulletin.com/2006/12/19/news/story02.html)

Aloha Airlines lost nearly $10 million in the third quarter -- more than four times its loss from a year earlier -- as an interisland fare war helped drag down revenue 13 percent.

The new financial loss piles on top of the $20.3 million Aloha lost in the first quarter of this year and the $2.8 million it lost in the second quarter.

On another note Island Air will fly a commuter route in California (http://starbulletin.com/2006/12/19/business/story01.html).

[Miulang]

According to a story in the Puget Sound Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2006/12/18/daily8.html?f=et80&hbx=e_du), Horizon Air (the sister carrier to Alaska Air) will also be flying into Long Beach, possibly in competition with Island Air. Island Air and BAG were awarded 17 slots while Horizon got 3 of the 20 slots that the FAA opened up in that market. I guess Long Beach is a desirable market because of its proximity to LAX.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

According to a story in the Puget Sound Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2006/12/18/daily8.html?f=et80&hbx=e_du), Horizon Air (the sister carrier to Alaska Air) will also be flying into Long Beach, possibly in competition with Island Air. Island Air and BAG were awarded 17 slots while Horizon got 3 of the 20 slots that the FAA opened up in that market. I guess Long Beach is a desirable market because of its proximity to LAX.

Miulang

Long Beach is a good relief airport to the Southern LA region since LAX is always clogged. It also has the right sized runways too because it served the production of 717s, now only the C17s.

[pzarquon]

You know, Hawaiian Airlines has been crowing about its national ranking as the best "on-time" airline for so long (three years), it was starting to get monotonous. So it was unexpected, for me at least, to find that Aloha Airlines dethroned its longtime rival (http://www.prnewswire.com/news/index_mail.shtml?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-03-2007/0004499107&EDATE=), at least for November. They also reportedly had the fewest complaints and lowest volume of misplaced luggage.

There must be something about the constant, short-haul flights that interisland airlines make to give them such a statistical edge in these national surveys. Still, number one is number one, and even as a flyer who prefers Hawaiian, I gotta give Aloha some props.

By the by, the family and I flew "go!" over the New Year's holiday weekend. No frills, to be sure, but efficient, fast, and reasonably friendly. With price matching, I doubt I'd use 'em again, but if they happen to have ridiculous low fares compared to Aloha and Hawaiian for a particular trip, I'd consider it.

[GeckoGeek]

I take the "on-time" thing with a grain of salt. I'm not sure what the exact rules are, but I think there's ways they can re-schedule so it arrives "on-time". Even if it isn't the time that the printed booklets say is the right time for it. If it takes off late, it's got a "new time".

[aloha-anon]

I take the "on-time" thing with a grain of salt. I'm not sure what the exact rules are, but I think there's ways they can re-schedule so it arrives "on-time". Even if it isn't the time that the printed booklets say is the right time for it. If it takes off late, it's got a "new time".

go! Airline are the experts on this!

[GeckoGeek]

go! Airline are the experts on this!

So how cum they not on top of the ratings?

[aloha-anon]

So how cum they not on top of the ratings?

oh padawan you have no idea what is going on over there.

If I posted what I know NOBODY would believe me it is incredulous. :eek:

[Miulang]

Little Pacific Wings is launching PW Express (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jan/17/br/br6174953802.html)beginning Feb. 1, and will offer seats on regularly scheduled flights between Honolulu, Maui, Lanai, and Moloka'i for $29, all seats, all times.

Considering what it costs to fly Island Air to Lanai and Moloka'i (albeit in larger planes), more residents of Lanai and Moloka'i will be able to take advantage of the cheaper fares that people on the larger islands enjoy during the interisland airfare wars. Like SWA, you can only purchase tickets on PW Express via their website or on the phone.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Little Pacific Wings is launching PW Express (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jan/17/br/br6174953802.html)beginning Feb. 1, and will offer seats on regularly scheduled flights between Honolulu, Maui, Lanai, and Moloka'i for $29, all seats, all times.

Considering what it costs to fly Island Air to Lanai and Moloka'i (albeit in larger planes), more residents of Lanai and Moloka'i will be able to take advantage of the cheaper fares that people on the larger islands enjoy during the interisland airfare wars. Like SWA, you can only purchase tickets on PW Express via their website or on the phone.

Miulang

Island Air (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jan/19/br/br3405829617.html)has decided to match PW Express' cut rate fares to Lanai and Moloka'i (sorta). They will now have fares that are $32 OW for 9 of the 37 seats on their prop planes, to match the $29 OW fares of the 9-seat PW Express planes. That's kind of an interesting strategy for Island Air, but it's a good opportunity for people who live on Oahu and Maui to go holoholo on Lanai and Molokai and ride in a larger plane.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Island Air (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jan/19/br/br3405829617.html)has decided to match PW Express' cut rate fares to Lanai and Moloka'i (sorta). They will now have fares that are $32 OW for 9 of the 37 seats on their prop planes, to match the $29 OW fares of the 9-seat PW Express planes. That's kind of an interesting strategy for Island Air, but it's a good opportunity for people who live on Oahu and Maui to go holoholo on Lanai and Molokai and ride in a larger plane.

Miulang

Where is go! Express in all of this? :D

[Miulang]

Where is go! Express in all of this? :D
I think go!Express (aka Mokulele Air) is being held up in court because go! announced the name of the company prematurely.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

I think go!Express (aka Mokulele Air) is being held up in court because go! announced the name of the company prematurely.

Miulang

Wow, I wonder how they get by then if they are shut down for now?

[Miulang]

Wow, I wonder how they get by then if they are shut down for now?
Mokulele is still flying, but under Mokulele Air, not go!Express.

Miulang

[aloha-anon]

I think go!Express (aka Mokulele Air) is being held up in court because go! announced the name of the company prematurely.

Miulang

The word is Mesa's own pilots will sue over go!, possibly even be legal to strike if go! Express ever flies.

:eek:

New York Times has a very interesting story last week about Jonathan Ornstein the CEO of go!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/19/business/19air.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&ref=business

here are some excerpts.

'[Jonathan Ornstein] is loud, volatile, insulting, doesn't listen to the other perspective.'

While 'Pay scales are low at airlines like Mesa . . . In the year ended Sept. 30, 2006, Mesa paid [Ornstein] about $1.6 million in cash and stock and he had a $2.8 million gain from exercising stock options.'

'China, in addition to being a huge growth opportunity, gives Mesa a place to send its planes should it lose business with bigger airlines in coming years. And the ability to shift planes abroad also gives him more bargaining leverage with the pilots union - ask for too much and the planes you're flying disappear. 'The same CEO was the focus of the anti-go group H.E.R.O. The last we heard between HERO and Ornstein he had threatened the employees at least twice publicly and even more via private channels.

[joshuatree]

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Feb/05/br/br0614259378.html

Okay, not quite following what HA/AQ are requesting here. The article states if fuel is purchased in HNL's foreign trade zone and the flights leave Hawaii, there is no tax. Does HA/AQ not have this same benefit for their out of state flights? Or are they not purchasing their fuel from the foreign trade zone? Or do they want this perk for their interisland flights too?

[mel]

Mokulele Airlines received its first Cessna 208 Caravan planes that will be flying as Go! Express.

Details at this link. (http://starbulletin.com/2007/02/06/business/story01.html)

The new commuter service will start with $19 fares this April according to the article link above.

[Miulang]

Mesa (http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2007/02/12/daily46.html?f=et71&hbx=e_du) announced a continuation of the $29 fare, although it appears that the numbers of seats and routes are restricted. HA and AQ are expected to follow suit (matching the number of restricted seats and routes) for the duration of the promotion.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

http://starbulletin.com/2007/02/21/business/story01.html

$9.6 million loss for the fourth quarter and a $40.5 million loss for the year.

Hawaiian had the highest percentage of seats filled of any nationwide carrier at 86.4 percent.

But there's no relief in sight in the interisland market, Dunkerley said.

Hawaiian's cost-control initiatives this year include beginning to shift its reservation call center operations to the Philippines, and its information technology and accounting jobs to India to reduce costs.

That will help offset expected increased maintenance costs

Although fuel costs rose edged up just 0.9 percent in the quarter to $60.4 million from $59.8 million, they represented close to 26 percent of Hawaiian's expenses.

Is it just me or is this more of the same reactive thinking? Cost-control is key and the two things they aren't even bothering to look at are the planes and the fuel. Where's the fuel hedging? Why a jet plane for inter-island? You can only cut people so much before that can't be cut anymore, not unless if you fold.

[Miulang]

Mesa is taking the leaders (including an Aloha Air pilot) of the anti-go! website, www.dontflygo.com (http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2007/02/26/daily45.html?jst=b_ln_hl)to court, claiming that the website is spreading false claims and hurting business for go!.

Mesa's suit alleges that Uslan and his John Doe co-defendants have "caused injury and damages to Mesa" and "directed defamatory statements" at Mesa and its chief executive. It also accuses them of trademark infringement.

In its lawsuit, Mesa asks the court to enjoin Uslan and the other defendants from using the airline's trade names and service marks and "from making false and defamatory claims or statements about Mesa Airlines." It also asks the court to order Uslan to reveal the identities of the owners and content providers for the www.donflygo.com Web site. Finally, it asks the court to award punitive damages and attorneys' fees.


This should get dirtier and more interesting as time goes on.

Miulang

[Random]

Island Air (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jan/19/br/br3405829617.html)has decided to match PW Express' cut rate fares to Lanai and Moloka'i (sorta). They will now have fares that are $32 OW for 9 of the 37 seats on their prop planes, to match the $29 OW fares of the 9-seat PW Express planes. That's kind of an interesting strategy for Island Air, but it's a good opportunity for people who live on Oahu and Maui to go holoholo on Lanai and Molokai and ride in a larger plane.
Or for people who want to return to the neighbor island more often.

But for me, anything smaller than turboprop commuter aircraft like DASH or DeHaviland makes me queesy. Bad enough I have to keep asking for seat belt extender.

[mel]

Is it just me or is this more of the same reactive thinking? Cost-control is key and the two things they aren't even bothering to look at are the planes and the fuel. Where's the fuel hedging? Why a jet plane for inter-island?

While the major airlines may know that flying fuel efficient turboprops interisland may help with their bottom line, the public prefers jets. And I don't think either Hawaiian or Aloha would want to go all prop interisland if the other or Mesa continues to fly jets.

The one flying the jets will use that as a competitive advantage to increase passenger traffic on the facts that jets will get people to their destinatiion faster and in more comfort (i.e. less turbulance)... of course they could set a higher fare, but if the turboprop airline uses lower fares, I am sure the jet operator would want to at least match that for some if not all seats... as it is now.

Plus there will always be a segment of the population that will refuse to ride anything but a jet. While advancements in prop planes have been many, they still suffer somewhat from the mistaken perception of being old fashioned technology.

[dick]

Plus there will always be a segment of the population that will refuse to ride anything but a jet. While advancements in prop planes have been many, they still suffer somewhat from the mistaken perception of being old fashioned technology.

When I rode this: http://starbulletin.com/2006/03/22/business/story02.html - it felt as though I was riding a jet (we flew to OGG and back to HNL). There was some slight vibration at startup and at the start of takeoff, but other than that there was no real difference.

Time-wise it was a tad slower than a jet, but not by much.

[mel]

I've ridden in several types of prop planes and I have my favorites and not so favorites.

Ones I liked: Gulf Jetstream 35 (or something like that); DeHavilland Dash 7; Saab 340

Ones I remember being on: Convair 340, Convair 640, DC-6, Shorts 330; YS-11 many times on Mid Pacific Air

The one I hated: DeHavilland Twin Otter DH6 (flew like an old bumpy bus)

The one I wanted to ride: Q400

Unfortunately the Q400 was in the Hawaii market for too short of a time for me to try. Island Air prices did not exactly match the promo prices offered from Go, HAL and AQ at the times I flew last year. The Q400 is one of the latest new technology turboprops; part of the Dash 8 series, which I also never flew.

[joshuatree]

While the major airlines may know that flying fuel efficient turboprops interisland may help with their bottom line, the public prefers jets. And I don't think either Hawaiian or Aloha would want to go all prop interisland if the other or Mesa continues to fly jets.

The one flying the jets will use that as a competitive advantage to increase passenger traffic on the facts that jets will get people to their destinatiion faster and in more comfort (i.e. less turbulance)... of course they could set a higher fare, but if the turboprop airline uses lower fares, I am sure the jet operator would want to at least match that for some if not all seats... as it is now.

Plus there will always be a segment of the population that will refuse to ride anything but a jet. While advancements in prop planes have been many, they still suffer somewhat from the mistaken perception of being old fashioned technology.

A lot of what you said is true back in the day but today's more of a myth which HA/AQ can dispel if they put some effort into it. Like you mentioned, the Q400 is a very modern prop that actually eliminates a lot of the old disadvantages of prop vs jet. All HA/AQ needs to do is maybe even lease one and rotate it into their service schedule to introduce prop back to the public and acclimatize them in the process.

Speed, HA's 717 has a max cruising speed of 506MPH. Q400 - 405MPH. Longest distance served in the interisle market is 216 miles. So assuming if we can somehow get the plane at max cruising speed from the moment we leave the gate to the moment we pull up to the gate, Lihue to Hilo will take 26 min on HA. If a Q400 flew, it would take 32 min. So you shave off 6 min on a jet. On the shorter routes, this time savings would be even less. The old props could never do 405MPH so this is not to say jets had no place in the interisle market but time's changed with rising fuel and labor costs.

Comfort, true a Q400's cabin is still smaller than a 737 or 717 but that's because the Q400 is a 70 pax plane vs the other two which are over 100. But when looking at seating arrangements, the Q400 is very comparable and definitely outclasses go!'s CRJ-200s for comfort. So no worries there.

Ultimately, it won't take much effort to win the public over on new props. I recall HA's latest figures were something of 86% load factor, that would be about 100 pax assuming their 717's are rated at the max 117 single class configuration. That would mean every Q400 they fly would be full and profitable since the op costs on a Q400 is also lower. The $19, $29, $39 fares are unrealistic, we all know that. So would you rather see an airline take charge and use a prop so they can perhaps charge $55 and be profitable or back to the old days of near $100? Since HA/AQ employees are so critical that they care about Hawaii's flying public, why won't they do something that will benefit them and the public? Sure, go! may match fares with their jets, but you can certainly afford to bleed longer if your op costs is lower. And depending on where the next price wars hit, maybe if the price would be around $45, your competitor may be bleeding but you may be breaking even with a prop. I think it has a lot to do with the unions too. Pilots would not want props because their salaries would be readjusted to prop pay which is less than jet pay.

[aloha-anon]

Mesa Airlines is sueing a pilot from Aloha Airlines.

Heres some links

http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2007/02/26/daily45.html?surround=lfn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_mACg9A9x0

http://www.mesavsuslan.com/

[Random]

The one I wanted to ride: Q400

Unfortunately the Q400 was in the Hawaii market for too short of a time for me to try. Island Air prices did not exactly match the promo prices offered from Go, HAL and AQ at the times I flew last year. The Q400 is one of the latest new technology turboprops; part of the Dash 8 series, which I also never flew.
Which airline had the Q400? And where do I search on the web for info/spec on Q400?

[Miulang]

Which airline had the Q400? And where do I search on the web for info/spec on Q400?
Island Air has them, but they are being mothballed (sent up to the Mainland to service routes up here). They are manufactured by Bombardier (http://www.q400.com/q400/en/home.jsp).

Miulang

[mel]

1. Island Air only had one Q400 flying interisland at the time they decided to get rid of it. It is long gone, probably flying for another airline now or their new start-up. The 2 other Q400s that were ordered for the Hawaii market never made it here.

2. One of the advantages of the larger Boeing 717 and 737 flying interisland is that both Aloha and Hawaiian allow you 2 carry-ons. When I flew Go I think it was only 1 carry-on since the plane is smaller. I would assume the same for Island Air's Dash 8 and the smaller Q400 if it were still in service here. Many people don't travel light.

[Random]

1. Island Air only had one Q400 flying interisland at the time they decided to get rid of it. It is long gone, probably flying for another airline now or their new start-up. The 2 other Q400s that were ordered for the Hawaii market never made it here.
Already did some googling and wiki-searching to realize that the DASH 8 and Q are one and the same. Island Air are currently using the 37-passenger 100 and 200 series (aka Q100 and Q200). Too bad I never did come around to trying out the 70-passenger 400 series.

What was Mahalo's aircraft in the 90's? Those were good.

Actually, of the mid-size/commuter prop aircraft in the world which is best in terms of fuel efficiency, safety performance, and low maintenance?

[mel]

Yes, the Q series (http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=122) is an advanced derivative of the successful Dash 8 (http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=121) series of turboprop aircraft. The Dash 8 was originally a product of DeHavilland of Canada. The firm was sold to Boeing which was later acquired by Bombardier. The new owners I think were the ones who saw the potential with the Dash and expanded the line to what we have today. Bombardier also makes the CRJ 200 (http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=125) jets that Mesa / Go flies.

Mahalo Airlines flew the Fokker F27 (http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=217) and the ATR 42 (http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=41).

[joshuatree]

Interesting, United acquired a minority stake in Aloha. Does this strengthen Aloha? Or a foreshadow of things to come, Aloha being bought up by UAL?

[Miulang]

Interesting, United acquired a minority stake in Aloha. Does this strengthen Aloha? Or a foreshadow of things to come, Aloha being bought up by UAL?
Probably means more codesharing for Aloha in the short term. I think HA used to code share with UA. But I think it's a good move for Aloha because Aloha needed the capital and with UA's major hubs in the Midwest (Chicago, Denver), it'll help them penetrate the interior part of the US where they don't currently fly. Might help them on the East Coast, too, although American kinda has that market sewn up.

I'm thinking that they are also taking advantage of the fact that the Visitor's Bureau is also embarking on a major campaign to lure tourists from the Midwest, and this would be a great tie in for Aloha, too.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Probably means more codesharing for Aloha in the short term. I think HA used to code share with UA. But I think it's a good move for Aloha because Aloha needed the capital and with UA's major hubs in the Midwest (Chicago, Denver), it'll help them penetrate the interior part of the US where they don't currently fly. Might help them on the East Coast, too, although American kinda has that market sewn up.

I'm thinking that they are also taking advantage of the fact that the Visitor's Bureau is also embarking on a major campaign to lure tourists from the Midwest, and this would be a great tie in for Aloha, too.

Miulang

I can't think of much more code sharing since both have been code sharing since the 1990s. Anytime anyone flying UA from anywhere wants to fly between the Hawaiian Isles, UA refers to Aloha. I don't recall HA ever code sharing with UA, maybe way far back, I know AA for sure. The fact that UA's stake provides a cash infusion to Aloha doesn't bode well for Aloha, they only emerged from bankruptcy not that long ago. UA themselves also emerged from bankruptcy not that long ago.

[Miulang]

I can't think of much more code sharing since both have been code sharing since the 1990s. Anytime anyone flying UA from anywhere wants to fly between the Hawaiian Isles, UA refers to Aloha. I don't recall HA ever code sharing with UA, maybe way far back, I know AA for sure. The fact that UA's stake provides a cash infusion to Aloha doesn't bode well for Aloha, they only emerged from bankruptcy not that long ago. UA themselves also emerged from bankruptcy not that long ago.

This followup story (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117823540025991534.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)expan ds on what is going to happen in this new agreement:

CHICAGO -- United Airlines and its long-time Hawaiian airline partner Aloha Airlines said they plan to expand their existing marketing alliance in a deal that will give United a small minority interest in the Honolulu-based carrier and a seat on its nine-member board.

United, owned by UAL Corp., has since the 1990s had a arrangement in which its passengers are transferred onto Aloha's interisland Hawaiian flights. Now, after a couple of months of negotiations, United and Aloha will enhance their code-sharing relationship -- in which one sells as if it own the seats on the other's planes and offers reciprocal frequent-flier benefits -- by putting Aloha's flight code on all of United's nonstop flights to Hawaii from the U.S. mainland and on United's daily flight from Honolulu to Tokyo.

The two carriers also plan to look for ways to share facilities where they intersect and find ways to be more efficient, they said. United, the nation's No. 2 airline based on traffic, will not be putting money into Aloha in return for its minority stake, the two companies said. And there is no language in the letter of agreement that would let United have the opportunity to buy the smaller airline, which is closely held and whose major owner is Yucaipa Cos., an investment firm headed by Ron Burkle.


Meanwhile, feisty little Pacific Wings (http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2007/04/23/daily43.html?from_rss=1)keeps competing against Mesa for some of the subsidized routes up here on CONUS and is winning! :cool: Their little business plan of winning routes and then not using federal money to subsidize the runs appears to be working in their favor.

Miulang

[MixedPlateBroker]

Not sure which model we flew, but we took Island Air between HNL and Kapalua last year and couldn't have been happier.

Boarding and disembarking were relatively lightning quick. Plus I was served a cold Sam Adams minutes after takeoff. It was the perfect accompaniment to the plate lunches we had picked up at one of the better take-out places in Kahalui (Cyn remembers the name). Now that's flying in style.

[Miulang]

Boarding and disembarking were relatively lightning quick. Plus I was served a cold Sam Adams minutes after takeoff. It was the perfect accompaniment to the plate lunches we had picked up at one of the better take-out places in Kahalui (Cyn remembers the name). Now that's flying in style.
If it was near the airport, that was probably Da Kitchen.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

To give a minor stake plus a seat on the board for no cash infusion must mean Aloha must be getting some meaningful non-cash perks from UA. Aside from closer code sharing and a revised mileage program, I wonder if perhaps UA will provide ground service to Aloha's planes on CONUS and vice-versa for UA planes in HI. I've seen Aloha ground crew vehicles serve UA planes in HI in the past but maybe they won't bill each other going forward? Also, maybe in terms of fuel hedging, parts acquisition, and plane acquisition, perhaps Aloha can leverage UA's connections?

On another note, the Embraer E190 received ETOPS 75 rating today. Work is now being done to reach ETOPS 120 rating. If it ever reaches ETOPS 180, I wonder if there will be any HI-CONUS flights on such a small plane.

[Miulang]

To give a minor stake plus a seat on the board for no cash infusion must mean Aloha must be getting some meaningful non-cash perks from UA. Aside from closer code sharing and a revised mileage program, I wonder if perhaps UA will provide ground service to Aloha's planes on CONUS and vice-versa for UA planes in HI. I've seen Aloha ground crew vehicles serve UA planes in HI in the past but maybe they won't bill each other going forward? Also, maybe in terms of fuel hedging, parts acquisition, and plane acquisition, perhaps Aloha can leverage UA's connections?

On another note, the Embraer E190 received ETOPS 75 rating today. Work is now being done to reach ETOPS 120 rating. If it ever reaches ETOPS 180, I wonder if there will be any HI-CONUS flights on such a small plane.
Hedging on fuel prices would be a very good thing. With UA being the #2 carrier in the US I'm sure their fuel discounts are large. They could definitely work together on ground maintenance, too, particularly on the West Coast, where UA has a no-frill airline called Ted that competes with Alaska for the West Coast-Mexico route already. In Ted's fleet are CRJ200s and 700s, SAAB340s, Dash8s, Embraer370s, and EmbraerJ145s.

Miulang

[Miulang]

It's also interesting that United uses subcontractors for its regional, short haul feeder routes on CONUS, including Mesa. They fly under the United Express (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Express)name. I think I read somewhere that the United Express contract represents a significant revenue stream for Mesa. So United may be hedging their bets by courting another regional carrier like AQ which could conceivably replace Mesa eventually (much in the same way as Pacific Wings is looking for markets outside of Hawai'i) because negotiating with Mesa and Ornstein has been really prickly no matter who Ornstein is dealing with.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

It's also interesting that United uses subcontractors for its regional, short haul feeder routes on CONUS, including Mesa. They fly under the United Express (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Express)name. I think I read somewhere that the United Express contract represents a significant revenue stream for Mesa. So United may be hedging their bets by courting another regional carrier like AQ which could conceivably replace Mesa eventually (much in the same way as Pacific Wings is looking for markets outside of Hawai'i) because negotiating with Mesa and Ornstein has been really prickly no matter who Ornstein is dealing with.

Miulang

Unless Aloha is going into the regional market on CONUS, I can't see how Aloha will replace Mesa. But Aloha's closer ties with UA may help stem against go! as UA to a degree can keep Ornstein in check if he wants to keep his contracts as United Express.

[Miulang]

Unless Aloha is going into the regional market on CONUS, I can't see how Aloha will replace Mesa. But Aloha's closer ties with UA may help stem against go! as UA to a degree can keep Ornstein in check if he wants to keep his contracts as United Express.

With United at their back supporting them, it wouldn't surprise me if, like Pacific Wings, AQ decided to go after part of the United Express market now held by Mesa. They would do this to keep their staff employed and their planes operating if they needed to cut back further on interisland service due to competition.

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

We haven't heard anything from aloha-anon (an insider source, as a pilot for Aloha Airlines) here on HT for a while. I wonder if his employer insisted upon his silence?:confused:

[oggboy]

I just hope this will help Aloha Airlines survive. Along with Hawaiiian Airlines these two Airlines have outlasted alot of airlines due to de-regulation. How many went under Pan-Am, Eastern, Western, ect.

[aloha-anon]

We haven't heard anything from aloha-anon (an insider source, as a pilot for Aloha Airlines) here on HT for a while. I wonder if his employer insisted upon his silence?:confused:

nope just lurking, and being entertained by everybodys take on the recent events.

[aloha-anon]

Mostly everything that can be said has been said already. Its now just time to sit back and watch Mesa lose the conga line of lawsuits lined up against them.

Ornstein will not talk his way out of this one.

He will end up either in prison, a nut house or he will flee the country.

You heard it here first.

[cynsaligia]

Not sure which model we flew, but we took Island Air between HNL and Kapalua last year and couldn't have been happier.

Boarding and disembarking were relatively lightning quick. Plus I was served a cold Sam Adams minutes after takeoff. It was the perfect accompaniment to the plate lunches we had picked up at one of the better take-out places in Kahalui (Cyn remembers the name). Now that's flying in style.


actually, twas a plate lunch we picked up in lahaina on the two and a half hour drive from the hana airstrip where we did the ultralight thing to kapalua. and the plate lunch was from aloha mixed plate. we had the shoyu chicken and i think one of the hawaiian plates. i can't remember details very well, but it did taste reeeeeheeeeeheeeeely good, and everyone on the plane was very envious. a couple semi-seriously offered to pay us for our food. anyway, after the long lahaina-hana airstrip-kapalua drive and eating nothing but trail mix and a shared protein bar in between, scarfing down those plates and gluggling down that beer made any turbulence there might have been seem inconsequential. besides, hello! we had just gone on an ultralight. if i was gonna worry about the dangers of flying, i would have done so over hana.

to tell the truth, i'd do the interisland ultralight thing if it weren't cost prohibitive to do so. that's fun!

course, i'm the kinda girl who can ride the zipper over and over and over (literally) again, without getting sick, and laughing all the while.

[joshuatree]

HA announcing some layoffs. Can't say the interisland air war is the direct cause but definitely has some role in it. Hopefully, this will make HA even leaner. Maybe they should find more ways of reducing fuel consumption, winglets on their 767-300s?

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/May/24/br/br1308495672.html

[aloha-anon]

HA announcing some layoffs. Can't say the interisland air war is the direct cause but definitely has some role in it. Hopefully, this will make HA even leaner. Maybe they should find more ways of reducing fuel consumption, winglets on their 767-300s?

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/May/24/br/br1308495672.html

And Mesa is feeling the Aloha back on the mainland as well. mesalies.blogspot.com (http://mesalies.blogspot.com) tells all

[MonkeyMan]

Aloha Air can bite me.

I really liked Aloha and wanted to support them, so booked a round-trip flight from HNL to OAK at spring break. On the way over, we went HNL, KOA, OAK. All good. Flew Aloha Air. Sweet crew, clean, modern, well-kept plane, nice seats, comfortable.

All good. Then we flew Southwest to our ski destination, and came back to OAK for our return flight home. Return flight was Aloha Air from Oakland... nice planes, leather seats, legroom, legendary on-time service.

We're sitting in OAK feeling all good, waiting to board at the Aloha gate, when over the intercom comes a nice, friendly announcement: "Ladies and gentlemen, we are proud to announce that today's Oakland-Honolulu flight will be operated by Omni International, in proud partnership with Aloha Airlines. We hope you will enjoy your flight."

WTF?? What does THAT mean? I thought I bought a ticket on Aloha. Who the hell is OMNI INTERNATIONAL?

(I invite you, dear reader, to Google yourself a little info on Omni International, at this point in the tale.)

At the appointed time, we boarded our flight, all on-time, just like you're used to with Aloha Air. All good.

Then we sat there while one guy fumbled up and down the plane, trying to find seats for his kids and a space for his huge carry-on bag.

But there didn't seem to be enough seats to accommodate everybody. The flight crew kept walking up and down the aisle, counting heads. "Hey! We found one back here!" So they stuck one of this guy's kids in the seat and kept looking for other, open seats. They finally found a seat for the other kid, but had nowhere to stick the big guy himself.

They counted heads a few more times, then gave up and stuck him in one of the stewardessesses (Thank you, Rap Reiplinger!) JUMP SEATS near the emergency exits over the wings. This was near us and I could see the guy was proudly wearing his FAA ID card on an ALPA lanyard around his neck.

He chatted with the crew and ho'omalimali with some other flight attendants who were obviously trying to grab a free flight back home. There were a bunch of them, maybe 5 or 6 others trying to squeeze on the overbooked flight.

This stalled our appointed departure time considerably. We left the gate nearly 40 minutes after we were supposed to have left for KOA.

Aloha had "sold" us to Omni Air.

The plane had boarded on time, but they stalled at the gate for 40 minutes trying to squeeze in an Aloha pilot and his family flying home on standby. Moved people all over the plane, stall, stall, stall. Finally moved some folks around, put the kids together and the pilot rode one of the stewardess' jump-seats.

We left late and we overheard the vacationing pilot talking to people sitting near him. "Oh, this pilot is taking his time going over. He's in no particular rush."

They had sort of Scotch-taped the Aloha logo on a bunch of stuff and pretended to be Aloha, but was really junky plane, microscopic seats, hard as rock, packed to the gills, so narrow my fat arse barely fit.

The movie was shown on 19" CRT monitors that swung down from the ceiling. (One poor bugga of average height, while walking down the aisle to the lua cranked his head firmly on the hangingn CRT!) The displays were faded, was hard to see the picture.

The captain suggested we close our windows to facilitate movie viewing so I went to close mine, only to discover that I had NONE! It was gone. Worse, while fumbling with the window, trying to find the window shade, THE WHOLE WINDOW FRAME CAME OFF IN MY HAND!!!! I banged it back into place with my fist and used a magazine for a window shade. The audio coming through the seat jack kept cutting in and out. After 30 minutes of James Bond, I gave up and listened to music on my iPod.

The flight took 6:15 minutes from Oakland to Kona. Our connecting flight was supposed to be at 3 p.m. from Kona to Honolulu. We pulled up to the gate at about 3:05 or 3:10 and they were still boarding.

A whole bunch of us charged off the Omni plane as fast as could and ran to the Aloha gate.

They told us the Aloha flight was full and that we would be put on the next flight an hour later. Grumble like hell! So the girl at the gate says, "We'll give you a voucher for another neighbor island round trip and we'll put you on the next Aloha flight at 4 p.m." We were satisfied with that and calmed down.

She collected our tickets so, supposedly, they could get the future passes made.

Then 2 other gate agents showed up and took over. They started typing stuff into the terminal at the gate, but they pretty much ignored us. Then one of them turned around and told us to leave the gate area. We refused, because they had all our boarding passes and we were waiting for the future passes. They turned around and ignored us some more.

We waited and waited.

In the mean time, they started boarding passengers through the gate next to us! First was little kids. We thought maybe first class... They let a whole bunch of guys on the plane, then turned to us. They pulled out our boarding passes which they had collected, tore them and sent us toward the plane.

So I asked where my future round trip tickets were.

The gate agent tells me, "You're not getting one. You were late from Oakland."

YIKES!!!! That set me off.

"That wasn't our fault. That was your fault! And the other gate agent promised us passes! That's why we were standing here for the past hour!"

Her answer: "Look, if you want to argue, go stand on the side and we'll let everyone else board first. Maybe you'll get a seat then, or maybe you'll go on the next flight! Take it or leave it."

HOLY CRAP!

My family was halfway to the plane already. I decided to go with them. But I promised the gate agent that would be the last time I fly Aloha. I told her, "From now on, I fly GO!"

We were on the road for 12 hours from early this morning until we got home. Man, was I pissed.

I'll never again fly Aloha unless I have no other options.

[mel]

My preference for flying interisland is usually not Aloha since they use the oldest planes flying interisland... used Boeing 737-200x series that went out of production in the late 1980s. I heard of other complaints about Aloha's Hawaii to mainland service too.... while the 737-700s are newer, some people say they are way too small to be flying such a long distance in comfort.

[tikiyaki]

Her answer: "Look, if you want to argue, go stand on the side and we'll let everyone else board first. Maybe you'll get a seat then, or maybe you'll go on the next flight! Take it or leave it."



The best way to deal with a belligerent employee is to read her name badge, and then say "I'll be sure to tell your regional manager you said that, __________ (her name)".

And then report her cranky ass...That's absolutely UNNACEPTABLE behavior.

Unfortunately, I get so hotheaded, I forget to follow my own above advice, but it's always best to just rat out people like that.

MM...that's a bad horror story...sorry you had to endure such bad business practices....

I had a pretty good experience on GO when I flew between islands....I would recommend them.

[joshuatree]

My preference for flying interisland is usually not Aloha since they use the oldest planes flying interisland... used Boeing 737-200x series that went out of production in the late 1980s. I heard of other complaints about Aloha's Hawaii to mainland service too.... while the 737-700s are newer, some people say they are way too small to be flying such a long distance in comfort.

If the 737-700's cabin is fitted to provide the same pitch and space as larger planes, then technically, it should be no worse than flying a widebody plane. However, speaking from experience on flying Aloha's 737-700, the fact that you visually see a smaller cabin and the flight is average 5 hours, makes one feel cramped. I flew one from HNL-OAK and we were a little short of the halfway point when there was a mechanical failure and we dropped below the clouds and flew back to HNL. No spare plane, no comp, we had to wait it out while they fixed the plane. Got into OAK at 3AM local time. You know the airport's closed when you land on the runway and your plane turns on the same runway and uses it as the taxiway to get to the terminal as quickly as possible. I felt bad for the few souls whose final stop is at Vegas. Haven't flown on any Aloha flights since.

[aloha-anon]

Aloha Air can bite me.

Aloha had "sold" us to Omni Air.

The plane had boarded on time, but they stalled at the gate for 40 minutes trying to squeeze in an Aloha pilot and his family flying home on standby. Moved people all over the plane, stall, stall, stall. Finally moved some folks around, put the kids together and the pilot rode one of the stewardess' jump-seats.

As an Aloha employee who was working the few days the Omni charters flew, allow me to correct your description.

No standbys made it upon any of those flights so your entire description is askew. This was SPRING BREAK and there were NO EMPTY SEATS on ANY AIRLINE flying the West Coast to any hawaiian destination.

This Aloha Pilot and his family were most definitely on confirmed tickets. You should have thanked him for splitting up his family so you could sit next to your companion.

Thats Aloha.

I had a pretty good experience on GO when I flew between islands....I would recommend them.

hahahahaha I hope they have a pilot to take you there next time you fly them! Mesa and go! pilots are quitting in droves. Mesa lost 75 pilots in April and 300 YTD. Mesa has shut down 14 cities on the mainland and gave up the entire State of New Mexico to Maui's little Pacific Wings. The writing is on the wall.

Remember Aloha and Hawaiian DO NOT HONOR go!'s tickets so when go! cancels a flight or loses your bags you are ON YOUR OWN.

[cynsaligia]

wow, aloha-anon!

if you work for aloha, you just did your employer no favors. in fact, you accomplished quite the opposite.

[aloha-anon]

wow, aloha-anon!

if you work for aloha, you just did your employer no favors. in fact, you accomplished quite the opposite.

Hows that?

[Random]

Remember Aloha and Hawaiian DO NOT HONOR go!'s tickets so when go! cancels a flight or loses your bags you are ON YOUR OWN.
That's unfair to single out one pool of customers, when they could simply convert them one by one. If you help them when go! could not, they will think twice about making future flight reservations with go!

[oceanpacific]

I usually fly ALOHA for my inter-island jaunts, for the following reasons:

1) more flights from Honolulu to Hilo, and vice-versa;
2) more of the less-expensive seats available;
3) more convenient flight times available;
4) drive-in check-in in inter-island parking structure - but, not utilized since the parking jam has commenced.

HAWAIIAN'S assigned seating is an advantage.

I've gone to the west coast by HAWAIIAN, but not ALOHA.

I have yet to travel by GO!

[aloha-anon]

That's unfair to single out one pool of customers, when they could simply convert them one by one. If you help them when go! could not, they will think twice about making future flight reservations with go!

A little history lesson may be in order then...

This is why neither AQ or HA will honor go!'s bags... its from last year.
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2006/09/18/daily62.html?jst=b_ln_hl

This is nothing but an all out cage match between Hawaiian, Aloha and Mesa. HA & AQ however still carry each others bags and passengers even after 60 years of an often bitter rivalry themselves.

[Random]

A little history lesson may be in order then...

This is why neither AQ or HA will honor go!'s bags... its from last year.
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2006/09/18/daily62.html?jst=b_ln_hl.
I thought it was a clever marketing strategy on the part of go! Ooh! I didn't realize h.e.r.o* are supposed to be untouchable. What they going do? Increase the rate of baggage thefts and negligence (than their normal rate)? Ooh!

*lowercase intended

P.S. Until they add Molokai (back) to their flight route, I could care less for any of the three airlines if they shut down.

[pzarquon]

The people who froth at the mouth, railing against the evils of go! are the number one reason I plan to fly them again.

I flew go! once, mostly out of curiousity. It wasn't bad, though I wouldn't normally go out of my way to do it again - I tend to fly Hawaiian (Aloha has never impressed me). Decided to write up a little blog post, and put together a little video.

Well, the comments I have to keep deleting from the review and the video are so juvenile, so vulgar, so ridiculous, that they're successfully pushing me back to fly go! again. The relentless and embarassingly mushmouthed attacks on go! and Mesa -- as documented in the news, as seen everywhere on the web, and of course here at HT -- make me only more hopeful for their success.

Oh, sure, this will all end in tears. Someone will go out of business, thousands of people will be out of a job. But if the loser is either of our incumbent carriers, I'm no longer sentimental about them. They demonstrated no loyalty to their local customers, and will get none from me. And the fact that they have such idiots on their payroll doesn't help. Good riddance.

[LikaNui]

I caught a blurb on the 5pm news that go! is offering interisland tickets for.... are you sitting down?....
$9. No typo. Nine dollars. 90% of a ten dollar bill.
And apparently Aloha has matched it, and Hawaiian has gone to $25. The promotions supposedly run through September 30.
Clearly there are a ton of restrictions, and I imagine there are maybe two seats per flight at those prices.
Nine bucks is ridiculous. I think I'll wait until flights are free. Or maybe the airfare wars will get so crazy the airlines will pay us to fly.

:p

[oceanpacific]

I caught a blurb on the 5pm news that go! is offering interisland tickets for.... are you sitting down?....
$9. No typo. Nine dollars. 90% of a ten dollar bill.
And apparently Aloha has matched it, and Hawaiian has gone to $25. The promotions supposedly run through September 30.
Clearly there are a ton of restrictions, and I imagine there are maybe two seats per flight at those prices.
Nine bucks is ridiculous. I think I'll wait until flights are free. Or maybe the airfare wars will get so crazy the airlines will pay us to fly.

:p


My sister called me about the $9 fare. So, I went on-line and bagged a RT to Hilo in mid-June for nine bucks each way (just under $30 with taxes) with ALOHA. Also, a mid-July flight to Kona ($9 to, $49 back (just under $70 with taxes), also on ALOHA. HAWAIIAN had nothing lower than $39.

I don't expect any free flights ............

[joshuatree]

I caught a blurb on the 5pm news that go! is offering interisland tickets for.... are you sitting down?....
$9. No typo. Nine dollars. 90% of a ten dollar bill.
And apparently Aloha has matched it, and Hawaiian has gone to $25. The promotions supposedly run through September 30.
Clearly there are a ton of restrictions, and I imagine there are maybe two seats per flight at those prices.
Nine bucks is ridiculous. I think I'll wait until flights are free. Or maybe the airfare wars will get so crazy the airlines will pay us to fly.

:p

That beats Skybus's $10 seats by a buck. I'm curious to see how Skybus will fair, they just started service on 5/22 I believe. Completely modeled after Ryanair. You want checked in baggage? First two is $5 a pop. Thereafter, think it's something like $50 a pop. Like theaters, you are not allowed to bring your own food, gotta buy. No seat assignments, no jetways. Gotta check in at least 30 min before flight because the agents working the check in counters move to the back to work the boarding gates, how's that for maximum use of personnel? Pliots make $63k flying A319s and the FAs make $9/hr with no per diem. I wonder how the AQ/HA folks feel if something like Skybus came to Hawaii? :D

[shaveice]

wuz lucky and booked a round trip for 3 next month to maui at $9 each. couldn't find a weekend so i had to choose a tuesday but at that price, i'm not complaining :)

[aloha-anon]

The people who froth at the mouth, railing against the evils of go! are the number one reason I plan to fly them again.

I flew go! once, mostly out of curiousity. It wasn't bad, though I wouldn't normally go out of my way to do it again - I tend to fly Hawaiian (Aloha has never impressed me). Decided to write up a little blog post, and put together a little video.

Well, the comments I have to keep deleting from the review and the video are so juvenile, so vulgar, so ridiculous, that they're successfully pushing me back to fly go! again. The relentless and embarassingly mushmouthed attacks on go! and Mesa -- as documented in the news, as seen everywhere on the web, and of course here at HT -- make me only more hopeful for their success.

Oh, sure, this will all end in tears. Someone will go out of business, thousands of people will be out of a job. But if the loser is either of our incumbent carriers, I'm no longer sentimental about them. They demonstrated no loyalty to their local customers, and will get none from me. And the fact that they have such idiots on their payroll doesn't help. Good riddance.

Anybody who doesn't agree with pzarquon is an idiot!

[aloha-anon]

This article in todays Fresno paper shows Mesa is pulling out of 12 cities where they charged anywhere from $200 to $400 a ticket. (http://www.fresnobee.com/local/sv/story/50259.html)

Reason?

"Cant make money." even after the federal government pays the airline a subsidy that maxes out at $200 per passenger.

"But not even a subsidy of up to $1.6 million a year for the combined Visalia/Merced route could offset the increase in fuel and other expenses"

Immediately after this article was printed the $9 sale was announced in Hawaii.

All makes perfect sense to me.

[mel]

I just got a $9 ($18 R/T) reservation on Hawaiian Airlines from HNL to ITO and back for late next month. I have to thank GO! Airlines for forcing HA and AQ to match ticket prices in the marketplace and allow me to once again see my family on the Big Island for a reduced fare. Gotta love the competition even when I am flying on an incumbent.

FYI - The R/T based on the $9 promo fare is $18 but the damn Sept. 11 terrorist tax is another $11.80 pushing the price up to nearly $30. Damn those terrorists!
:eek:

[cynsaligia]

As an Aloha employee who was working the few days the Omni charters flew, allow me to correct your description.

No standbys made it upon any of those flights so your entire description is askew. This was SPRING BREAK and there were NO EMPTY SEATS on ANY AIRLINE flying the West Coast to any hawaiian destination.

This Aloha Pilot and his family were most definitely on confirmed tickets. You should have thanked him for splitting up his family so you could sit next to your companion.

Thats Aloha.



hahahahaha I hope they have a pilot to take you there next time you fly them! Mesa and go! pilots are quitting in droves. Mesa lost 75 pilots in April and 300 YTD. Mesa has shut down 14 cities on the mainland and gave up the entire State of New Mexico to Maui's little Pacific Wings. The writing is on the wall.

Remember Aloha and Hawaiian DO NOT HONOR go!'s tickets so when go! cancels a flight or loses your bags you are ON YOUR OWN.

wow, aloha-anon!

if you work for aloha, you just did your employer no favors. in fact, you accomplished quite the opposite.

Hows that?


aloha-anon, why don't you print out menehune man's complaint and then your responses, and show it to aloha's upper management? i'm sure they'll explain it to you. *snort*

[joshuatree]

FYI - The R/T based on the $9 promo fare is $18 but the damn Sept. 11 terrorist tax is another $11.80 pushing the price up to nearly $30. Damn those terrorists!
:eek:

Yep...and with the way security is, am I the only one that wonders if this security fee is even spent right? One look and you can see all the flaws in the system.

Airports - they feel like they are built backwards. Most of the eating establishments should be before the security gates, not after. Heck, you may even bring in more revenue since friends and family members can hang out with the pax before flight time. You also move more airport employees out of the "secured" zone, thereby reducing risk even more, you know, the inside job scenario.

Carry-ons - the whole 311 deal is a joke. What's to prevent several pax getting together their 311s to form a larger pool of liquid?

First class / Econ class discrepancies - if any meals served in econ, it's plastic ware, but first still gets silverware? Uh..what, terrorists don't buy F tix? And first is even closer to the cockpit.


I agree with PZ on his sentiments. The heavy propaganda by pro AQ-HA folks may have pushed neutral riders into the go! camp. I remember that rally HERO held, it was all about don't fly go, Mesa is evil, AQ/HA are good guys, etc. But not once, have I seen anything in any rally where they simply just thanked those who faithfully used AQ/HA. And the ironic thing is, for those AQ/HA faithful, you are happy with the $9, $19, $29, $39 tix but if go! wasn't around causing trouble, you would never have had that opportunity.

[oceanpacific]

In sharp contrast to the present "price-war," we went to Hilo in December 2005. It cost over $800 RT for five of us. That's $160+ RT for each, $80+ one-way. You'd be scrambling for $59/one-way fares on the "bread/milk flight" departing Honolulu at 5:30 AM. :eek:

It doesn't seem that long ago when coupons were $174 for six ($29/each), but, then again, that was at least 25 years ago. Time does fly .............

[mel]

Yep...and with the way security is, am I the only one that wonders if this security fee is even spent right? One look and you can see all the flaws in the system.

Yep, I often wonder when I am sitting in the waiting area about some of those issues you brought up in your post.


AQ/HA. And the ironic thing is, for those AQ/HA faithful, you are happy with the $9, $19, $29, $39 tix but if go! wasn't around causing trouble, you would never have had that opportunity.

That is why I thank Go! for being in the marketplace. They have driven down the price of inter-island travel. This is good for budget minded consumers.

As I have stated several times, I prefer Hawaiian Air mainly because I like their Boeing 717 planes better than the older Aloha Airline 737-200s. Whenever I book I fire up Hawaiian's website first and see what is available and affordable. If there were not any $9 tickets for the time I decided to travel, I certainly would have checked the websites of Aloha, Go, and Island Air.

With tickets selling for $9 suddenly the $39 tix that were available at HA did not seem like that great of a bargain as they were last year. Still, $39 is a great price when you think about the $79 and $125 or so tickets that were the norm before Go/Mesa entered the marketplace.

Granted the cheap fares won't last forever, so again I highly recommend that people who want to travel interisland, enjoy the ride now because I know it will hurt when prices go back up.

Of course by late summer/fall, the Hawaii Superferry will offer still another inter-island travel option.

[808shooter]

booked flights for my family of five in aug on go!

thanks for the $9 flight deals!

[shaveice]

in addition to my trip to maui in july for 3 at $9, i went back online and booked another trip to maui for 3 in sept and got lucky this time (saturday flight). as mel said, this is a rare opportunity and it makes perfect sense to enjoy the ride while we can....

[Lei Liko]

My stepdad flies in and out of KOA to HNL every week on AQ and while his company pays for the majority of his flights, he's still responsible for some of them. That said, I was in website hell Sunday night booking his flights until September. We were lucky because we were able to get all his segments for $9.

At the same time I went ahead and booked a few weekend getaways for myself. How wonderful that flying interisland suddenly became cheaper than my weekend bar tab!!:D

[aloha-anon]

I agree with PZ on his sentiments. The heavy propaganda by pro AQ-HA folks may have pushed neutral riders into the go! camp.

And the lack of bin space or room for surfboards on flights full of $9 pax pushes them right back. If that doesn't do it, one approach into OGG over McGregor on an average trade wind day in the light little canadian airplanes will.

Heavy propoganda?!?!? Aloha's Stu Glaubeman always has "no comment", Hawaiian's Keoni Wagner doesn't say much either. The only "minister of disinformation" is the go! CEO Ornstein.

[joshuatree]

And the lack of bin space or room for surfboards on flights full of $9 pax pushes them right back. If that doesn't do it, one approach into OGG over McGregor on an average trade wind day in the light little canadian airplanes will.

Heavy propoganda?!?!? Aloha's Stu Glaubeman always has "no comment", Hawaiian's Keoni Wagner doesn't say much either. The only "minister of disinformation" is the go! CEO Ornstein.

Possible but that just means go! need bigger planes. As for approach with some wind, yeah, the 737 will fare better than the CRJ based on size. That's like saying a Ford Expedition will do better in a collision with a Geo Metro.

Propaganda referring to the HERO folks and the internet posters that literally try to shove down your throat the preachings about the evils of go! If anything, AQ and HA management is doing the right thing by not mentioning a word and focusing on the lawsuits.

Sounds like from the other posters that the $9 fares have been pretty much taken up. At this point, those $9 seats don't hurt any of the airlines, you figure they were unused seats.

[Random]

Possible but that just means go! need bigger planes.
No need bigger plane. Just install racks on the wings and fuselage. And have surfers sign waivers if their boards become dislodged during flight.

:p

[shaveice]

did you guys hear that go extended the $9 fare to weekdays up to december? and hawaiian matched that fare so i checked and booked some roundtrip tickets for october...

[mel]

For 12 hours only starting at 7 this morning, Go! is offering $1 airfare for $2 R/T. Travel now to December.

http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/11/news/story01.html

[joshuatree]

For 12 hours only starting at 7 this morning, Go! is offering $1 airfare for $2 R/T. Travel now to December.

http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/11/news/story01.html

I suspect one won't find too many slots. 1000 OW tix is 500 RTs and they've spread them out till 12/15. But definitely headline grabbing.

[mel]

Go's website is very busy this morning. It's still trying to load in my flight information.

[Ms_Aloha_Nui]

Was just told by Go! CSR that the site is down....try again in 30 minutes....

[mel]

That figures. I got a server error on my go miles log-in and the reservation pane just let the cursor spin around with no update. Demand probably far exceeding supply of $1 tickets and certainly putting a huge load on their server. Tried Hawaiian Air, they have no matching fare. Did however buy higher priced tickets today for travel during Christmas holiday (before all the low end fares of the high end are gone)....

Will keep on trying Go for a $1 flight.

Let my Mac beachball spin.

[aloha-anon]

obviously the $9 fares did not help.

go! is desperate. Fly them at your own risk. On the mainland Mesa has pulled out of at least 18 cities in the past month. They are losing pilots at an alarming rate. 350 or more have quit this year alone.

[mel]

I am sure a lot of people will fly Go! at their own risk if the price is only $1 each way. If they can pass this screen that is:

http://buzznet-98.vo.llnwd.net/assets/users16/macpro/default/msg-118158958071.jpg

My Christmas trip is booked on Hawaiian at the non $1 fare. So there is my support for "local" airlines that are owned by mainland investors.

Still trying Go for another impulsive travel date. Will keep trying and hopefully get past the screen above.

[1stwahine]

I've been trying since this morning too! I've been to Hilo only once...when I was in the 6th grade.:o I can afford $2.00 plus tax. Wat?! I'm PUA!!!:p

HAHAHAHAHA

Happy Kamehameha Day!

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/1stwahine/img-oahu-culture.jpg

Auntie Lynn

[mel]

The tax is $11.80.

[1stwahine]

The tax is $11.80.

Wow! Two plate lunches foa GO to see da Big Island!:D

Now all I gotta do is get pass the screen.

Mel, try go off so it will be one less person.:p

Auntie Lynn

[kiwidiva]

I keep getting "the screen" too!

But I did notice on their homepage they have a statement claiming that due to the overwhelming response they are experiencing slower than normal response times (duh!) and to make up for it, have added an additional 1,000 fares at $1 and extended the deadline until midnight tonight.

[1stwahine]

I keep getting "the screen" too!

Oh!! NO!! GO!! Away....juss joking!:p

Whoever gets on first let us know. I tired of checking. I like go moemoe already...I pau eat lunch. My eyes like close.heheheh

Good luck!:D

Auntie Lynn

[Karen]

What hits me as I listen to these news reports currently is wow, we have airfare wars now and the ferry isn't even running yet! Just wait.......I suspect one airline will be forced out of business and am sorry, but the airlines we have now AND ferry?! I don't think they can all co-exist, sigh.

that being said, I grew up in South Central Texas flying Southwest airlines more than any other. I could afford to travel thanks to that airline and never once did they make me mad in many years. Competition in the airfares is good and I'm sorry if some other airlines aren't able to keep up....that's what capitalism is.

[mel]

Competition in the airfares is good and I'm sorry if some other airlines aren't able to keep up....that's what capitalism is.

Exacto-mundo! :) This ongoing fare war shows how great the free market can be. Bring in competition and watch prices drop. Great for the consumers, even good for business. The ones that can adjust will survive and the one's that can't... well they go the way of the "dodo bird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo_bird)".

[1stwahine]

K-den...I finally got in.

But everything is SOLD OUT!:mad:

Only get $29.00 and da other fares open. The car rentals are outrageous!

I still going to the Big Island.;)

Auntie Lynn

[aloha-anon]

This is on another forum right now. Lots of people P.O'd with go!. It's all a big scam.

"website crashed" yeah right...

Its called the bait & switch and its illegal but who cares? Not Mesa! They are breaking many worse laws with their own employees and against Aloha and Hawaiian.

Didn't get a $1 fare? KITV wants to talk to you!

Hi,
I'm a producer at KITV in Honolulu. We have received many emails from folks who were unable to buy a $1 fare today on go!

We're looking for one of those people to do an on-camera interview with us. If you are interested, or just would like to give us more info, email us at newstips@thehawaiichannel.com.

Thanks!

[1stwahine]

heheheh....

We got our tickets!:D

It's my first time in decades to visit the Big Island. Any recommendations on Hotels and Car Rental companies. We'll be there three days and three nights.:D

Auntie Lynn

[Kaukura]

I love Hilo. Love it. I usually get to go 'for the day" every 3 months for our seminars we hold there. I usually pay my hotel myself and stay at Uncle Billy's on Banyan Drive just to relax for the day. I've stayed at naniloa and hilo hawaiian hotel, but Uncle billy's seems the friendliest (debbie and greg are always at the front desk to greet me) and I walk next door to the Naniloa and swim in the rock pools or walk around Queen Liliuokalani gardens or coconut island or go into town and walk around Hilo. Each time I go the closer to feeling like I could live there. If I had a car (which I never do), I'd love to drive further down to some black sand beaches. I've never seen one in Hawaii.

[1stwahine]

Mahalo Kakura!;)

In the StarBulletin http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/12/news/story02.html
$1 flights ground airline's system

Stop-and-go traffic clogs go! Web site
By Dave Segal

"Overwhelming response to the $1 fare sale by go! shut down the interisland carrier's reservation system for about eight hours yesterday -- just minutes after the one-year anniversary sale had begun.

Prospective travelers flooded the airline's office with phone calls and e-mails.

Go! -- a division of Phoenix-based Mesa Air Group -- responded by doubling the number of $1 fares to 2,000 and extending the 12-hour deadline another five hours until midnight, or until all $1 fares were gone.

Hawaiian Airlines and Aloha Airlines declined to match.

Go! said the shutdown occurred because its booking-engine provider, Sabre, had not supplied enough capacity to meet demand. The go! site generated 20,000 independent hits in the first hour."

We didn't get the $1.00 fare. However, we still booked our flights with Go! It cost us $ 139.60. We are looking forward to going to the Big island.:D

Auntie Lynn

[aloha-anon]

http://starbulletin.com/2007/05/31/news/corky.jpg

[joshuatree]

Uh....didn't AQ and HA follow as well on $9? :p

[aloha-anon]

Uh....didn't AQ and HA follow as well on $9? :p

Joshuatree, you just dont get it. This cartoon is evidence that mostly everybody in Hawaii finally understands Jonathan Ornstein is a total WHACK JOB.

Most of the passengers go! are the infrequent, unaffiliated flyer - who just don't know any better.

The latest $1 fare and routine $19 fares are proof positive that go! couldn't fill their airplanes if they paid people to fly.

[joshuatree]

Joshuatree, you just dont get it. This cartoon is evidence that mostly everybody in Hawaii finally understands Jonathan Ornstein is a total WHACK JOB.

How does one cartoon = mostly everybody in Hawaii? I find the cartoon funny because it shows the man (go!) beating himself with the $9 club and the caption asks if AQ and HA will follow. We all know they did so I picture two more guys beating themselves with the same club. :p

Most of the passengers go! are the infrequent, unaffiliated flyer - who just don't know any better.

Okay.....so since you are so confident only the infrequent, unaffiliated flyer uses go!, please raise AQ and HA's fares back to pre-go!. Let's revisit the numbers then.

The latest $1 fare and routine $19 fares are proof positive that go! couldn't fill their airplanes if they paid people to fly.

If you paid people to fly on go!, I'm pretty sure the planes be booked solid. A page out of Ryanair's playbook?

[Karen]

What?! Some people don't believe the website crashed from too much traffic at once? with fares under twenty bucks people think it was bait and switch?! shaking my head, sorry, not being rude just honest. Hell yeah, with everything...going up on this rock, you bet an airfare like that has people traveling that haven't in long time.

[aloha-anon]

Peter Forman is the Author and historian we see on the news from time to time. He also wrote the book on Hawaii's Airlines.

Year One Interisland Air War Victors: The Incumbents (http://airlinesofhawaii.blogspot.com/)


That's right, Aloha and Hawaiian Airlines get my nod at the 12 month mark in their lively dogfight with newcomer go! Airlines. It's been one wild contest so far, but the incumbents have shown serious strength in repelling the invasion by newcomer go! Airlines. How objective is this conclusion? Take a look.

When go! entered interisland service in June of 2006, the startup carrier brought a fleet of 50-passenger regional jets to Hawaii and challenged the established carriers on routes from Honolulu to Kauai, Maui, and the Big Island. Go!'s plan was to win favor with Hawaii air travelers by offering low fares and sell itself as a lower-cost alternative to Hawaii's traditional carriers. Go!'s 50 passenger RJs would establish a beachhead in the islands, and once loads increased to a certain level, phase two would begin. That phase included the introduction of 90-110 seat jets prior to the summer of 2007. The larger jets are more comfortable and offer lower seat-mile costs than the 50-passenger RJs. If go! could bring in the larger jets and fill them up, Hawaiian and Aloha Airlines would have much to worry about. Well, we're less than a week away from the official beginning of Summer 2007, and no larger jets are in sight.

Here's a summary of what went wrong for go!

1.

Go! management didn't understand the price elasticity of the market. If interisland ticket prices go down 20%, does the amount of traffic increase at least 20%? Nope, not even close. Startup carriers such as Southwest could actually generate more traffic than they took away from other carriers when they entered a market. Why can't that be done here in Hawaii? Because nobody is driving between the islands. That's a pool of potential travelers that's simply not available to win over. Furthermore, with hotel rooms running $200 a night, chopping $30 off the cost of an airline ticket doesn't make a neighbor-island trip a bargain. The net result is that with ticket price cuts well in excess of 50%, the market produced an extra 8% increase in passengers, at best.
2.

Aloha and Hawaiian increased capacity, instead of decreasing it. Hawaiian Airlines has been flying with systemwide load factors approaching 90%. If an interisland fare war increased the number of travelers, Hawaiian would be turning away passengers on many flights unless it upped its capacity. Increased capacity meant that go! must earn its passengers, rather than receiving them by default because the competition was full. By turning the financial screws to the incumbents, management at go! expected Aloha Airlines in particular to cut capacity in order to slow the drain of cash. Aloha knew better than to reward such behavior.
3.

The public reacted negatively to go!'s predatory practices. In a September 2006 legal action, an attorney for Hawaiian Airlines introduced emails between a Mesa Airlines executive and a consultant for Mesa. The consultant said that Mesa's Hawaii project didn't make sense as long as Aloha was still in the picture, and the Mesa executive replied that Mesa should enter the market so that no one else does and give Aloha “the last push”. Further, a document sent to Mesa investors showed that Mesa planned to raise prices at its go! unit once Aloha was out of the way. Mesa's CEO defended the email as just being a joke. Hawaii residents didn't buy that argument nor a number of other ludicrous claims, and the credibility of the airline's management plummeted. A year of $39 and below tickets has only confirmed the predatory nature of go! Airlines.
4.

Aloha released the Sabre Study. This study, paid for by Aloha but conducted by a third party, concluded that with 62% of seats filled, Aloha needed $50 per ticket sold to break even, Hawaiian needed $55 per ticket, and go! needed a whopping $67 per ticket just to break even. The results of this study contrasted greatly with go!'s attempt to sell itself as the low-fare airline because it was the low-cost airline.
5.

Profits at go!'s parent company have recently turned into losses. Mesa's market value has dropped 25% during the past year. Cash on hand has dropped significantly in the past year and Mesa may be experiencing a serious, long-term shift in its profitability. The parent company can no long afford a long-term experiment in trying to displace an established carrier from the Hawaii interisland market.

And what did the incumbent carriers do right?

1.

Aloha and Hawaiian didn't cut capacity when threatened, and they matched fares. These were two critical moves to prevent go! from establish a beachhead here in the islands. If go! had succeeded in introducing 100-passenger jets and filling them up, the losses for Aloha and Hawaiian would become unbearable at some point.
2.

The incumbent airlines took top national honors for on-time performance and customer satisfaction. In other words, both Hawaiian and Aloha ran dependable and passenger-friendly operations.
3.

Neither Aloha nor Hawaiian have made any serious mistakes so far. Neither airline over-reacted to $9 or $1 fares. They've provided enough seats to match the competition, but they've shown restraint when prices were so low they were silly. Both incumbent airlines show that they are well managed and able to change course quickly to adjust to the market.
4.

Hawaiian has racked up the highest load factors in the industry. High load-factors are an indication of either excessive discounting or significant popularity with the traveling public. In Hawaiian's case, it's the latter.
5.

Aloha has shorn up its credibility as a survivor. Aloha's largest shareholder is now a savvy billionaire, airline legend Gordon Bethune has come aboard as Chairman, and United Airlines will be taking an equity position in the Hawaii carrier.

When Will the Fat Lady Sing?

There will be no peaceful coexistence in this battle. Go! came into the fight with a desire and need to sink at least one of the competitors, and its actions have consistently supported this aim. Losses are enormous at all three interisland operations, but seldom will an airline pull the plug on its operation during the summer months. These are the months with the greatest potential for profits. Lately go! has been trying creative ways to shake the competition, such as $1 fares and fare specials not released to the media. So far, Aloha and Hawaiian have been able to respond quickly and intelligently.


This autumn will be a critical time in this battle. In September, Hawaiian Airlines gets its day in court against Mesa. Most observers believe that Hawaiian has an excellent chance of proving that Mesa breached a confidentiality agreement with Hawaiian. Such an agreement should have prevented Mesa from using certain information against Hawaiian until an agreed upon number of years had passed. One remedy would be to require Mesa to cease their go! operation for a prescribed period of time. Large damage awards are possible as well. Aloha stands ready to have its similar claims heard in a future court hearing. Court action could well be the method for ending this bitter fight. Hawaiian and Aloha have prevented go! from bringing in the big jets, and both airlines will survive to see their day in court. This is a huge victory for the incumbents.

posted by Peter Forman | 3:18 AM | 1 comments

[aloha-anon]

What?! Some people don't believe the website crashed from too much traffic at once? with fares under twenty bucks people think it was bait and switch?! shaking my head, sorry, not being rude just honest. Hell yeah, with everything...going up on this rock, you bet an airfare like that has people traveling that haven't in long time.

We don't just think the recent fares were a bait and switch but actually the entire airline. Go! promises to rid you of the HA/ AQ Duopoly but if/when you ever get to see what you will be given in exchange you would call it much worse things than just a bait & switch.

Mark Dunkerly said it well when he called it "a mirage"

Things are not what they seem.

[mel]

As consumers go, most people don't care about an airlines' long term future if another firm in the same market is offering a good to extraordinary deal on ticket prices and travel.

Pricing is for now. The public makes up their mind as to whether or not to fly NOW and not 2, 3 or 5 years down the road, when perhaps there will only be one or two airlines.

NOW is the time for cheap fares.

NOW is the time consumers take advantage of those cheap fares, whether they be a dollar, $9, $19, $29 or $39. Most people don't care if it is Go, Hawaiian or Aloha. Whoever has the cheapest seat NOW will get the public's cash to fly to a neighbor island.

If in the future when one of the airlines leaves the market, and prices do inevitably go up, then you know what... the traveling public will adjust. They will cut back on flying inter-island and see grandma or grandpa not 2 or 4 times a year, but maybe only once a year, or once every 2 years.

If Go drives Hawaiian or Aloha out of business then surely Go and the remaining incumbent will raise prices and the public will adjust.

If the the 2 incumbents drive Go out of the market, they for sure will raise prices, and the public will adjust. Maybe not for the good of the airlines once they realize the sticker shock of $119 inter-island fare for coach class seating again as the bargain rate.

But that is in the future. The time is NOW and the bargains are to be had NOW. People have taken advantage of the fare reductions.

Surely $1 fares were the cause of Go's website crash because the DEMAND was created. The demand for $39 fares (which is a good price) on the same day as the $1 fare was simply not there, noting that both Hawaiian and Aloha's websites functioned normally as they always do.

So yes, the traveling public took advantage of the fares and tried to get in. At offices all over the state the next day after the Go fare, people were asking "did you get the dollar ticket"? Most like me probably did not, but I am happy for the people who did.

Thanks Go for making inter-island travel affordable, even if it is only for NOW.

Who knows, there may not be a tomorrow. Enjoy the ride!

[Karen]

Mel, I can't add a thing, well stated. You nailed it.

[MonkeyMan]

Aloha Air pulls a bait-and-switch every time they sell one of their flights to Omni International.

[GeckoGeek]

Aaaaaaand. What about the Super Ferry? I think it's going to put limits on what the two survivors can jack the prices up to when the 3rd one is sent packing.

[mel]

Yep, the Superferry will be another option to consider in inter-island travel. It remains to be seen if they will play the low ball fare game with the airlines.

[aloha-anon]

Aaaaaaand. What about the Super Ferry? I think it's going to put limits on what the two survivors can jack the prices up to when the 3rd one is sent packing.

And who on earth is going to ride the superferry when airfares are $19? Bad timing for the superferry. They are sailing right into the twin Hurricane's Snafu and Fubar.

Timing couldn't have been WORSE for the superferry, they have investors also who want to see a return.

Hey Maybe JO was hired by AQ & HA to help burn the superferry. Ah, yes, nothing like the sound of black helicopters in the morning.

[LikaNui]

Yep, the Superferry will be another option to consider in inter-island travel. It remains to be seen if they will play the low ball fare game with the airlines. I doubt it will happen straight away. They'll probably be darned full for a while, with folks just wanting to try the new experience. Once the newness wears off, then we'll see what happens.

[aloha-anon]

KHNL calls go! "desperate"
Analyst: Cheap Airfares Desperate Move by Go Airlines
http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=6667453&nav=0bov

while the Star Bulletin prints several letters, one calling the "ho-neymoon" with go! over.
http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/17/business/story02.html

The honeymoon with go! has come to an end
Mesa's demands that Aloha and Hawaiian reduce capacity is proof to me that the honeymoon with go! is over. If go! couldn't fill their much smaller and slower airplanes with $39, then $29, then $19 and $9 tickets, nothing will. You get what you pay for. Now that the ho-neymoon is over and reality is setting in, like any other unstable, dysfunctional relationship, the blaming and retaliation has begun.

Jonathan Fangul
Honolulu

Mesa failed in its bid to take down Aloha
Mesa tried to put Aloha out of business, and as screwed up as Aloha was last year, Mesa couldn't pull it off. Despite the clearly predatory actions of Mesa, Aloha is doing better than ever this year, securing several top spots in national customer satisfaction rankings. Mesa can't fill their planes with pilots on payroll let alone $1 passengers. Mesa should just leave already. Take your phony philanthropy to China and don't come back Mr. Ornstein!

Larry Risley
Mokuleia

Sale blunder probably drove customers away
Concerning go!'s $1 fares: This appears to be a psychological blunder, so Aloha and Hawaiian airlines need not worry. By offering such low fares but not allowing anyone to access them, go! has alienated a great number of local people rather than entice them.

William D. Perri, Ph.D.
Clinical psychologist,
Kilauea

Ornstein having 'fun' at others' expense
I was appalled to read Jonathan Ornstein, the CEO of go! and Mesa Airlines, considers the unstable interisland market to be fun ("go! anniversary," Star-Bulletin, June 7).

As the leader of a large company which has significant influence on the lives of thousands of families, I would expect Mr. Ornstein to act in the best interest of his shareholders, employees and customers. Instead, Mr. Ornstein chose to satisfy his personal love of competition and created go! airlines to make "coming to work fun" for himself.

In the article, Mr. Ornstein reasons that "always being small" made him very competitive. It seems that being small has also made him bitter and vindictive. Mr. Ornstein has brought his big airline and big pocketbook to Hawaii to beat up the comparably tiny airlines of Hawaii. Now that Mr. Ornstein is the big kid, he is having "fun" beating up smaller kids in their own backyard. I wonder if it made Mr. Ornstein happy to read about the Island Air and Hawaiian employees who have recently lost their jobs. Is that part of the fun?

Scott Robinson
Honolulu

[joshuatree]

Superferry will be serving a different type of customer, one that would want to bring their own cars and assorted cargo. The only hindrance I see is the PUC rule of not permitting any unaccompanied cargo trucks on board. If SF can get the PUC to revise that rule, SF will be serving a wider audience than the airlines. Maybe even compete for Aloha Cargo's business.

Mel really nailed it. The anti-go folks keep going on like a broken record that we're screwed if go! wins because they will jack up the price, etc etc. It doesn't matter who wins, the winner will jack up the price after this battle is over. The sky is falling argument doesn't even float because if an incumbent does go under, there is still a remaining incumbent, Island Air, and Superferry to keep the competition healthy. It's called a free market and I'm glad to finally see it play out in this state. Too long has the welfare state mentality run its course. Why else do you see so many of Hawaii's brightest leave year after year when they graduate? Cuz there's no competition and no opportunity, you gotta have old boy network connections to get you places. I guess AQ forgot about its roots considering that was the very reason AQ was founded upon. This whole loyalty argument is bull. People shop at Walmart when they opened up, people bought Hondas & Toyotas when they came to these shores, people will shop at Target when they open up.

And what exactly will AQ/HA plan to do if the court finds go! not guilty? Or what if go! is levied a fine but is allowed to stay? As far as I can see, AQ/HA has done nothing in this past year to better position themselves in the interisland market. All they have done is simply matched go!'s fares which is all reactive measures. And the funny thing they like to boast about right now, they've added capacity so it's pissing go! off. Hmm...I remember just a few years ago, people were complaining how AQ/HA were reducing capacity and making travel times less convenient. Interesting how an evil company like go! is needed to remedy that situation.

[joshuatree]

Former era of 'loyalty' didn't bring low prices
It seems go! can't have a promotion without hearing about how they are out to put someone out of business and how they aren't loyal to Hawaii. Does no one remember how loyal Hawaiian and Aloha were before go! started flying last year? The guys at Aloha keep saying that the airlines have to charge $50 to make money flying interisland. If that's the case, why were the other "loyal" airlines almost always charging more than $100 each way? We should all thank go! airlines for coming here. If they leave, then we'll be stuck with the two who really know how to put people out of business.

I, for one, fly go!.

Chris Papero
Kakaako



God Bless go! God Bless our troops
I am the mother of an Army soldier who was injured while on duty in Iraq. My son suffered a tremendous crushing of his right foot. He was med-evacuated to Tripler Hospital and I was missing work from flying back and forth from the Big Island for months. I started to suffer from a depletion of my resources and decided to ask for help from our interisland airlines.

I wasn't asking for charity, just maybe a discount for flights to and from Honolulu to see my son and tend to him at Tripler. I noticed on a flight that go! had a sign on the plane that said "We support our troops." I am here to say that go! does support our troops because they were the only airline that responded to my need.

I was contacted by Chris Wyland, vice president for go! He listened to my story and then offered to help. I could not believe it! They are still flying my son and I back and forth for his continuing care. Mr. Wyland has even taken the time to personally call my son Michael to wish him well and thank him for his service. He is just now beginning to walk, but his recovery has been very slow and painful for him.

I am so very grateful for go! airlines. As a resident, I appreciate what they have done for the people of Hawaii. We understand that this is a special case, but we feel very fortunate that go! has been there in our time of need. Please print this letter. I want to thank go! for what they have done for us. They will know who I am. Thank you go! I promise you, we are go! passengers forever! God Bless go! God Bless Our Troops!

Bea Hanson
Kona



Aloha and Hawaiian overcharged for years
It seems kind of strange to criticize go! airlines for trying to offer cheaper fares to the local travelers. I remember having to pay almost $250 for a round-trip ticket to Hilo a few years ago before go! started flying here. If Aloha's and Hawaiian's own consultants say that they should charge $50 to make money on interisland flights, why were they trying to rip us off all those years? Also, how does Hawaiian Air's outsourcing of hundreds of local reservations and other jobs to the Philippines support Hawaii and its workers? Saying that go! is trying to put Hawaiian and Aloha out of business when go! is much smaller is like saying Longs is trying to put Wal-Mart out of business by having its weekly sales.

Kasey Chock
Honolulu



go! made interisland travel affordable again
Congratulations to go! airlines in achieving their one-year anniversary. Their introduction to the interisland market has certainly helped make air travel affordable again for families, and the average person.

I also like the ease of flying out of the commuter terminal.

They seem to be the JetBlue of Hawaii.

Way to GO!

Toshi Kawai
Honolulu

[dick]

Well, I'm looking forward to the superferry so I can use my own car when I go interisland. And fill it with crap either coming or going. Very limited on the amount of stuff I can take with me now on a plane.

Thinking as a musician, my band could do outer-island gigs, and bring our own amplifiers and equipment on the ferry. Something not possible (or prohibitively expensive) now.

Until then I'll keep flying go! Nothing but good things to say about that airline.

[GeckoGeek]

Superferry will be serving a different type of customer, one that would want to bring their own cars and assorted cargo.

Granted, it's a different customer, but it will still be a moderating influence on what the airlines can charge. If the airlines try to charge too much, then more people will switch to the ferry.

[mel]

I think that Superferry will not be playing the deep game of chicken at the outset with fares when competing with the airlines. The Superferry will be charging fares in the $50 range for individual passengers. That is less than the pre-Go airline prices that Aloha and Hawaiian Airlines were charging @ around $79 - $89 per ticket.

[aloha-anon]

The only hindrance I see is the PUC rule of not permitting any unaccompanied cargo trucks on board. If SF can get the PUC to revise that rule, SF will be serving a wider audience than the airlines. Maybe even compete for Aloha Cargo's business.


I think Aloha's largest cargo customer is Loves bread. Even if the SF allowed trucks on board, Loves (or any other company) would never tie up their entire ground fleet for two days to make one delivery. With Aloha, they drop off their load, then continue making dozens of other deliveries throughout the day.

SF picked a horrible time to come to Hawaii. In fact, they couldn't have picked a WORSE time to come.

The Hawaiian and Environmentalist protests will seem like church picnics compared to the negative yields as none of our airlines or the interloper seem to be giving up any the fight any time soon.

[Karen]

What a wonderful report about Go! Airline, thanks for posting. Sounds like what I came to know and expect from Southwest Airlines. No wonder Jet Blue is such a good one, as they were founded by former Southwest employees. I haven't flown in years but if I do fly interisland, Go! will get my business.

[AlohaKine]

I don't worry about it much because I loath flying now adays. Long lines, long waits, all the security hassles, no outside smoking areas, crowded aircraft, cheapskate service, and so on. "Friendly Skies" - not any more.:( It's like being in a concentration camp one of my friends once said. I agree. I guess they could get away with treating customers like sh*t because the airport was the only easy way off the island. :(

I can't wait untill the Superferry starts running. I've been on the one in Seattle and I don't have to deal with all the above B.S. There's plenty of room and it's much more enjoyable. The word hospitality was not unknown to them unlike the airlines and airports. :)

[Karen]

Aloha, no more friendly skies doesn't just apply to the islands. I've noticed that it is much less friendly since the seventies and early eighties, for example. My sis retired from Southwest Airlines and she said that the employees are much less friendly cuz the public is.

She worked as a stewardess, and in reservations on the phone and said that when she started with them in like '80, I think it was that people were more polite in general, and that the last ten years that she got many more rude and obnoxious callers per day. she said the bennies were great and the pay good, but it was no longer worth getting dumped on daily and biting her tongue, for the most part.

Society as a whole is more stressed and less kind and patient, just like, generalizing here.....the kids have less manners than more than twenty years ago, in my opinion of course.

[aloha-anon]

What a wonderful company! Lets all fly go! this summer. I gladly give my business to draconian tyrants who rule with iron fists!

/sarcasm

http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2007/06/18/daily54.html?surround=lfn

Mesa lawsuit against pilot goes to court
Pacific Business News (Honolulu) - 6:58 AM HAST Thursday, June 21, 2007

Mesa Air Group's lawsuit against Mike Uslan, a former Mesa pilot now flying for Aloha Airlines, is scheduled for a hearing Monday in U.S. District Court in Phoenix. Mesa operates the go! interisland air service.

The lawsuit, filed in Arizona in January, alleges that Uslan participated in a Web site -- www.dontflygo.com (http://www.dontflygo.com) -- that Mesa claims is misleading, violates its trademark over the use of "metatags" and makes defamatory statements against the airline and its CEO, Jonathan Ornstein. Mesa, which operates the interisland airline go! in Hawaii, seeks an injunction to remove the site and to identify its authors.

In a motion to dismiss the lawsuit, filed March 14, Jeffrey Miller, Uslan's attorney, argued that Mesa filed the lawsuit in Arizona to make it expensive and inconvenient for Uslan to defend himself and to intimidate people from speaking out against Mesa's business practices in Hawaii.

Mesa's attorney, David Rogers of Phoenix-based Squire Sanders, did not respond to PBN's request for comment.

I bet Ornstein also likes to make girls cry and kick small animals around. What a pathetic loser. He can't counter sue Aloha so he sues one of their pilots! AMAZING!

And now lets get some posts how this can be justified. C'mon its really easy. You can justify anything if you try hard enough.

[DaFerret]

I think you should just let it go aloha-anon. People not affected by all this friction, whether they're employed by HA or AQ or have a direct relative or friend employed by them, won't really care. They've nothing invested in either company so when it comes down to it, it's only about low fares.

And if low fares are all that matters, who are you, or anyone, to try to take it away from them? Let them fly Go!. Let them enjoy themselves while it lasts.

[joshuatree]

Justify in what sense? Why Mesa did it? Or why Mesa chose Arizona? If it's the former, Uslan appears to have a role in the Hawaiian vs Mesa case so that is a factor plus the dontflygo.com issue. It it's the latter, having home court advantage helps. Removing all emotional ties aside, it's a strategy move. When Cisco sued Huawei for copyright infringements, they chose to file suite in Texas as opposed to California, headquarters for Cisco, because Texas courts deal with tech cases swiftly and usually in the plantiff's favor. Huawei settled out of court.

And it did accomplish one thing for Mesa so far, the dontflygo site is hardly what it was anymore.

[aloha-anon]

And it did accomplish one thing for Mesa so far, the dontflygo site is hardly what it was anymore.

So you are saying because Mesa was able to squash a persons right to free speech via fear of a lawsuit this is a good thing? Please elaborate or correct me if I misunderstood you.

[Karen]

Darn tootin I'll be flying Go! I'm already living in Tax hell or heaven here, whichever way you choose it, and I am being forced to pay for a rail system that I say will be begging for riders after the new wears off, and I have heard from enough peole that are pleased with their flight experience on Go! So....

Go! Go!....Go! LOL and I don't mean "go away." :D

[joshuatree]

So you are saying because Mesa was able to squash a persons right to free speech via fear of a lawsuit this is a good thing? Please elaborate or correct me if I misunderstood you.

No, I'm saying if their agenda for filing suit against Uslan is to cripple the dontflygo website, then it's mission accomplished for them since I see the site now merely redirects to other newslinks. You asked for justification of their actions, I'm just giving you the analysis. Ultimately, does this constitute right or wrong, good or bad, will be decided by the judge on Monday.

[GeckoGeek]

squash a persons right to free speech

"Free speech" is not an absolute right. There are limits. There is NO RIGHT to defamation, which is what the suit charges.

This issue will have it's day in court.

[cynsaligia]

aaaaaand let's be reminded that "free speech" is about our right to say our mind without the GOVERNMENT squashing us. if Joe Public or ACME Co believes Al Eyre is defaming him/it, then Joe Public/ACME has every right to pursue the matter in court, and win for damages if the judge or jury finds that the plaintiff had cause.

eric and i haven't flied go! yet (busy w/school & work) but Al's rabid diatribes have made us determined to do so the next time we holiday on one of the neighbor islands, assuming that taking the titan with all our snorkeling gear etc onto the superferry doesn't end up being a better alternative.

oh wait...i just remembered...we were invited to hang out on paul brown's estate next month! we might be flying go sooner than i thought!

:D

[aloha-anon]

http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/23/business/story02.html

Aloha pilot asks court to dismiss Mesa lawsuit (http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/23/business/story02.html)

Aloha Airlines pilot Mike Uslan makes about $68,000 a year flying Boeing 737-200s from Honolulu to the neighbor islands.

Mesa Air Group Inc., which operates the 1-year-old Hawaii carrier go!, has annual revenue in excess of $1.3 billion.

In a case pitting David against Goliath, the 37-year-old pilot and his Honolulu-based attorney, Jeffrey Miller, will ask U.S. District Judge James Teilborg on Monday in Phoenix to dismiss a lawsuit that Mesa brought against Uslan in January for his alleged involvement in an anti-go! Web site. A motion filed by the Hawaii-based Uslan and his attorney seeks to dismiss the complaint due to lack of jurisdiction.

The question we need to ask is do I want my hard earned money to go to a company that supports over 3,000 local families with kids in our schools, that owns real estate in our neighborhoods and has deep roots in the community or do we want our money to fund another beach mansion for Ornstein so he can kick more people off "his" beach.

[pzarquon]

Losses widen at Aloha Airlines (http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=5949)
Aloha Airlines, pressured by the interisland airfare war and trying to cope with high fuel prices, lost $24.3 million in the first quarter — its 14th consecutive quarterly loss. The privately held carrier, which emerged from bankruptcy in February 2006, had a net loss of $20.3 million a year ago.Speaking of the airfare war...

go! currently has a $19 special, if you buy your tickets (http://www.iflygo.com) by 9 a.m. tomorrow (for travel through July 12). Hawaiian Airlines just announced it will match, if you buy your tickets (http://www.hawaiianair.com) by noon to