Legislature to ponder private jet purchase

[Miulang]

Of all the things to wish for, Sen. Colleen Hanabusa is introducing a bill to allow the State (i.e., you, the taxpayers) to purchase a private jet (http://starbulletin.com/2007/02/04/news/story01.html)for $1.9 million. The excuse? The high cost of travel for elected officials who need to get from island to island.

Seems to me some legislators have decided to become more high mucka mucka and have a private jet at their beck and call. The Gov. and the DOT are disavowing any knowledge of the bill.

So just how many RT airfares on go! could state officials buy for $1.9 million? And that just covers the cost of the plane, not the fuel and ongoing maintenance charges!

SB1977 was introduced by Senate President Colleen Hanabusa, by request. Hanabusa said someone approached her to introduce the bill at the last minute, but she couldn't remember whether it was forwarded to her office by a fellow lawmaker or a constituent.

"Right now, I'm not in my office so I can't tell you who asked me to introduce the bill. It's not a bill that I came up with," Hanabusa said in a telephone interview yesterday.

Hanabusa said Wednesday's hearing should be interesting. She recalled a similar discussion when she was Judiciary Committee chairwoman several years ago and a bill to buy a plane to transport prisoners came up.

..."The state does spend a lot of money in terms of travel costs," Hanabusa said. "But the question is going to be whether the additional costs, of course, the maintenance and the personnel cost and so forth, how that all becomes justified.

Can you say, "political junkets, here we come" to the tune of $1.9 million plus $250/hour of flight time?:mad:

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Grrrrrrrr.....the $ can be used for the Hungry and Homeless!!!:mad:

Da Nerve!


Auntie Lynn

[helen]

Way big difference between thinking about it and actually going and spend the money to do it. And right now they are only thinking about it.

[Miulang]

Way big difference between thinking about it and actually going and spend the money to do it. And right now they are only thinking about it.
That they're even thinking about it, given more pressing problems like the homeless situation, is pretty astounding. That and the fact that the person introducing the bill, Sen. Hanabusa, apparently has no recollection of who suggested that it be submitted (since Sen. Hanabusa said it wasn't her idea but one that was given to her at the "last minute" either by a colleague or a constituent) really makes me wonder if the legislators are really taking the time to do their homework before submitting bills. More than likely it'll die a quiet death, but because the local dailies made note of it, there could be a hidden agenda on the part of the newspapers. Or maybe it was just a very slow news day in the Legislature.

Miulang

[Hellbent]

it should come out of their pay. in fact, how about a pay cut anyway? they should get minmum wage.

[joshuatree]

I like to see the record books to see how much in travel costs did our politicians rack up in a year? I seriously doubt it's $1.9 mil. I'm not talking about room and board, or food stipend, just the cost of plane rides. And you can't factor in any trips to anywhere outside of Hawaii either because the little plane they are considering buying doesn't have the range to take them there so throwing those figures in is stuffing the figures.

But assuming if the books do show that it would be cheaper to have the state own and operate their own plane, I don't see why Hawaii should bid on Alaska's 20+ year old jet. If the state wants a private jet, they should look at the new class of VLJs (Very Light Jets). The Eclipse 500 only costs ~$1.5 mil new.

[helen]

Shelling out the initial 1.9 million dollars for the purchase of the jet (or plane as the case maybe) would be a one time thing. It is the on going cost to run the jet, like fuel, landing fees (which might be wavied), salary cost for the plane's crew, cost for the ground crew or hiring out to an aircraft maintenace firm, spare parts and other supplies to operate such a craft that needs to be compared what the state is spending for air fare travel.

Even if one compares the on going cost of operating such a jet to be much lower than what is spent on air fare, it doesn't have the flexibity that commerical routes have to offer and the state jet can only be at one place at a time, where as if members of group needed to be at different places at the same time.

[joshuatree]

Even if one compares the on going cost of operating such a jet to be much lower than what is spent on air fare, it doesn't have the flexibity that commerical routes have to offer and the state jet can only be at one place at a time, where as if members of group needed to be at different places at the same time.

Actually a private jet will give you more scheduling flexibility as it doesn't abide by a fixed schedule. And different groups can be accommodated by staggering the flight schedules of the different groups. But you are right if there is a group of people that exceeds the plane's capacity at one time. I still doubt the justification for a private plane. I don't think there are THAT many business trips by politicians between the islands annually.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

why a jet? why not a cessna? Something little, easy on the gas, wind up da rubbahbands and can shoot 'em from Hilo to HNL in 90minutes.

[helen]

Then again this begs the question as to who can use the state jet? For sure it would be the governor and the lt. governor. The other state cabinet members?

Members of the Legislature?

[craigwatanabe]

Why not just make government travel free for government officials and give the airlines a tax break for accomodating the state government.

If our elected officials don't want to give out many tax breaks, then they will limit their travels to important ones only.

Seems to me it's better to use what's available and negotiate some bartering system with what you have that the other wants. Airlines can give out free tickets...legislators can vote on tax breaks.

Oh but democrats don't like tax breaks. Stupid me I forgot.:rolleyes:

[Miulang]

Craig's idea is a good one, and there's also another alternative: if the State buys up large blocks of tickets, they could probably get smoking discounts on the per ticket price. Corporations do that all the time and I don't see why the State doesn't do that too. I bet they could get tickets for less than the $29 OW that go! offers. Plus, it'll be good for whichever airline company that gets the contract because they'd get the money up front and would be guaranteed the fare, even if the ticket went unused. Put the contract up for competitive bidding and see what happens. Do this every 2 or 3 years and control travel expenses that way.

Miulang

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Craig's idea is a good one, and there's also another alternative: if the State buys up large blocks of tickets, they could probably get smoking discounts on the per ticket price. Corporations do that all the time and I don't see why the State doesn't do that too.


they already do that with the interisle carriers. I think the idea of a State Jet is crocked.

[craigwatanabe]

there's also another alternative: if the State buys up large blocks of tickets, they could probably get smoking discounts on the per ticket price. Miulang

But Miulang...there's a smoking ban in effect:D

[Hellbent]

What the government needs is a old chinese man in the approvals. "$900k for Nuuanu signs? I got a son in law who can do it for $3k"
"$1.9M for a jet? Heres $150, go get bus passes or use the superferry, you approved it"
Maybe its because I'm naive about politics, but I dont think the politicians should be able to give themselves raises. They should get minimum wage, then a bonus based on how useful they were after their term ends. :)

[joshuatree]

What the government needs is a old chinese man in the approvals. "$900k for Nuuanu signs? I got a son in law who can do it for $3k"
"$1.9M for a jet? Heres $150, go get bus passes or use the superferry, you approved it"
Maybe its because I'm naive about politics, but I dont think the politicians should be able to give themselves raises. They should get minimum wage, then a bonus based on how useful they were after their term ends. :)

I concur that politicians should not be able to give themselves raises. Imagine if we could all do that. But I actually think an attractive wage should be set, not minimum. You want to attract qualified people, not just anybody. However, in return for a premium salary, these folks should be held to very strict standards.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I concur that politicians should not be able to give themselves raises. Imagine if we could all do that. But I actually think an attractive wage should be set, not minimum. You want to attract qualified people, not just anybody. However, in return for a premium salary, these folks should be held to very strict standards.

not to quibble, but:

--I don't think there's a single elected official who ran because of the attractive salary they currently enjoy on the taxpayer's dime, and

--elected officials should be held to very strict standards regardless of what their salary is.

[joshuatree]

not to quibble, but:

--I don't think there's a single elected official who ran because of the attractive salary they currently enjoy on the taxpayer's dime, and

--elected officials should be held to very strict standards regardless of what their salary is.

Perhaps you might know better than me, what is the current salary range?

True, but you have to admit, at min wage, strict standards are less adhered to.

[GeckoGeek]

I wonder if this isn't going to come back and haunt Hanabusa when she runs for re-election. This is a real stinker of an idea.

[helen]

I don't think the idea itself is what is going to get into trouble but rather she can't remember who forward this proposel to her.

[GeckoGeek]

I don't think the idea itself is what is going to get into trouble but rather she can't remember who forward this proposal to her.

Or that she just tagged her name on it to get it submitted. She's that casual about things that have her name on them? Or is she "owned"? No matter how you cut it, it doesn't look good.

[LikaNui]

A good editorial in today's Star-Bulletin at this link (http://starbulletin.com/2007/02/06/editorial/editorial01.html).
Early in the article it mentions maintenance and staffing expenses, which have been mentioned here on HT as well. I hadn't seen any mention of insurance, which surely ain't cheap! Forturnately the editorial did mention it (in passing) farther down.

[craigwatanabe]

I don't think the idea itself is what is going to get into trouble but rather she can't remember who forward this proposel to her.

I think you're right on that one. You don't introduce anything for consideration without doing the homework on who is asking you to do it.

Something's fishy here. You don't get that high in politics by forgetting who you're talking to.


I say "Yes", that this episode will come back to bite her in the butt when it comes time for re-election.

[Adri]

I don't think the idea itself is what is going to get into trouble but rather she can't remember who forward this proposel to her.

I know some legislators feel it is their duty to represent their constituents by instroducing whatever legislation is requested to be introduced by their constituents even if they may not personally agree with the content of the legislation. They then trust the legislative process to sort things out and trust that "bad" legislation will be screened out during the hearing process. Some legislators distance themselves from legislation they have introduced but might not agree with by adding "By Request" to it, I guess to make it clear that it wasn't their idea. I'm dunno if that's what happened in this case. Also, some legislators (and given her high profile, I would imagine Hanabusa is one of them) see, discuss and introduce so many bills, they might honestly not remember who requested which bill to be introduced.

I do think the jet purchase is a bad idea and the legislation dies.

[1stwahine]

Deleted by Poster.heheheh

Legislator will decide das why.

Auntie Lynn

[Hellbent]

How long is the typical legislation session again? 40 days a year?

[mel]

How long is the typical legislation session again? 40 days a year?

60 actual legislative days barring any extension. Factor in 14 recess days, a handful of holidays and weekends you get around 80 days. The legislature usually adjourns first Thursday in May, this year on the 3rd.

Legislative Calendar (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/info/time/time.asp?press1=info&press2=time)

The state doesn't need an airplane.

[GeckoGeek]

I know some legislators feel it is their duty to represent their constituents by instroducing whatever legislation is requested to be introduced by their constituents even if they may not personally agree with the content of the legislation.

So I'm curious as to who wanted to introduce that. Someone with an airplane to sell? The list of people who would benefit seem kinda small. That's why I'm not quite buying into the quote above.

[1stwahine]

Found out from another Forum it didn't PASS last night!

The airplane bill was introduced "by request" by Senator Hanabusa for State Rep. John Riki Karamatsu. That was revealed yesterday.


Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

Found out from another Forum it didn't PASS last night!

The airplane bill was introduced "by request" by Senator Hanabusa for State Rep. John Riki Karamatsu. That was revealed yesterday.


Auntie Lynn
So I google'd his name and discovered his blog (http://jonriki.livejournal.com/). He's a young whippersnapper (32) which may explain why he thought having a State-owned aircraft was a good thing.:o

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Da question remains ~ Good Golly Miss Molly! How come she couldn't rememba who gave it to her? She is the Senate President isn't she? OMG!!! :eek:

She betta buy a PLANNER or something!:p

Auntie Lynn:D

[Miulang]

Da question remains ~ Good Golly Miss Molly! How come she couldn't rememba who gave it to her? She is the Senate President isn't she? OMG!!! :eek:

Well, yeah, that doesn't look good. And she was running to be your US Senator? Yikes. Makes the makule guys like Inouye and Akaka look like geniuses!:D

Miulang

[Adri]

So I google'd his name and discovered his blog (http://jonriki.livejournal.com/). He's a young whippersnapper (32) which may explain why he thought having a State-owned aircraft was a good thing.:o

Miulang

Who requested that Karamatsu introduce his bill or was the plane purchase really his idea? Was his bill marked "by request" as well? It's most common at the leg for there to be "companion" bills so that if one bill gets introduced in the House, it also gets introduced in the Senate and representatives and senators cooperate to introduce each other's companion bills.

[Miulang]

Who requested that Karamatsu introduce his bill or was the plane purchase really his idea? Was his bill marked "by request" as well? It's most common at the leg for there to be "companion" bills so that if one bill gets introduced in the House, it also gets introduced in the Senate and representatives and senators cooperate to introduce each other's companion bills.

From his blog, Rep. Karamatsu is saying he introduced HB 336. It would be up to him to fess up whether it was his idea or one of his constituents'. But you gotta wonder, if the request came from one of the voters in his district, what were that person's motives? Did he have a slightly used aircraft he wanted to sell?:rolleyes:

But even in Rep. Karamatsu's case: did he do any homework (like, couldn't he or his aides have looked into what the maintenance would have cost on the plane) before he submitted his bill, or was he just trying to score points for the number of bills he submitted? I would rather have a legislator submit fewer, more substantive bills than one who cluttered up the legislature with frivolous bills that took time away from debating more serious matters.

House Bill 336, Appropriation for State-Owned Aircraft - Appropriates $1,900,000 for the department of transportation to purchase a state-owned aircraft to be used in the conduct of state business. Requires the department to adopt rules concerning the use and maintenance of the aircraft. (Rep. Karamatsu's Senate Companion Bill: Senate Bill 1977 introduced by Senator Hanabusa)

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Well I guess we know who's not gonna win the next election:D

[adrian]

Can't they just rent helicopters?

[Leo Lakio]

Or they could connect up with Hobart (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=10535).:p

[craigwatanabe]

DOH!!!!!:eek:

[LikaNui]

Or they could take the SUPERFERRY!!!

:D

[Miulang]

Or they could take the SUPERFERRY!!!

:D
They could hold their meetings on the Superferry. There'd be enough time to get most of their agenda accomplished while on board the boat. Does the State use filibusters often?:D When the boat gets to its destination, they could then go on their junkets (just like Djou et al are going to Paris in the springtime to check out the "trams on rubber tires" that Honolulu might be buying).

Miulang