New Kaka`ako aquarium?

[LikaNui]

Four days ago in the SuperFerry thread, there was a mention of Ko Olina giving up their $75 million tax credit and how it might go to Kaka`ako, and I wrote “But who the heck thinks we need another aquarium in Kaka'ako? Fix and improve the one we already have, I say. But we should probably start another thread for that topic.”
Well, here is that new thread and poll.
Decided to start it after seeing Lee Cataluna’s column today (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070211/COLUMNISTS02/702110359/1120), her first topic upon her return. She feels as I do on the topic.
What say you? Do we need a brand new aquarium in Kaka`ako (or anywhere else), or not?

[LikaNui]

Wow. Already five votes NO and to just keep the Waikiki Aquarium. Zero votes for a new one in Kaka`ako, and zero votes for one anywhere else.
Keep those votes coming, folks!

[craigwatanabe]

We could use an Aquarium here on the Big Island and a better zoo, and a theme park, a Chucky Cheese, Zippy's...:(

Amazing how statistics can really throw things out of perspective. I was the only vote for having an aquarium somewhere else and my single vote represents roughly 30% of those voted.

[tutusue]

I love our little aquarium next to the ocean and I also love the concerts held outside. I have mainland friends who feel it's too small, almost laughable, and doesn't do the undersea world of Hawaii justice. In all honesty, I haven't given the subject of aquariums much thought even when the proposed Ko`olina aquarium was in the news. Personally, I don't see any need to move it to Kakaako or anywhere else.

[Miulang]

The State only needs one "world class" aquarium. Too bad that it's on Maui. You wanna see a world class aquarium in Hawai'i? Just come to Maui then.;)

Lee in her column mentioned the Seattle Aquarium. It's not "world class" anymore (used to be when we had orca shows back in the 1960s---before it became illegal to capture orcas in the wild and put them in aquariums). It will become "world class" again once the multimillion dollar revitalization project is pau on the waterfront in about a year (prime tourist area).

But world class in Seattle is not the same as world class in Hawai'i: we don't have the colorful reef fish or honu Hawai'i has: we have salmon, rockfish, sea urchins and anemonies and sea otters and seals. We can't capture any more of our beloved orcas to show.

The city to the south of us (Tacoma) has a "world class" aquarium at Pt. Defiance Park. They have the same kinds of sea creatures that we have in the aquarium in Seattle, but they also have belugas (love those lil white whales with the beautiful eyes).

The $75 million tax credit should be used for developing more housing and services for the homeless and those who can't pay the market rate for housing. Staring at fish is nice, but seeing people living on the beach--in their cars or in tents or with no cover at all-- instead of just visiting the beach for the day, is most definitely NOT nice.:(

Miulang

[scrivener]

I object to the use of the word "need" in this poll, as if "need" were the only consideration. Remember, Hawaii's economy is tourism-based, and therefore defies any notion of "need." Tourism is a luxury.

This is why the mayor's continued insistence on pushing only projects the city of Honolulu "needs" is ridiculous. Sure, we don't need a lot of things in order for us to live good, healthy lives, but having them makes things a lot better, and if it makes the tourists' experience better, I would consider that a need.

We don't NEED an aquarium. I, personally, do not even NEED the one we have now, 'though I love it dearly and know people who work (and have lived!) there. But need is not a word that really should enter into the discussion here; what should really be discussed is whether or not it would be good for all (or at least many) interests.

[craigwatanabe]

I object to the use of the word "need" in this poll, as if "need" were the only consideration. Remember, Hawaii's economy is tourism-based, and therefore defies any notion of "need." Tourism is a luxury.

This is why the mayor's continued insistence on pushing only projects the city of Honolulu "needs" is ridiculous. Sure, we don't need a lot of things in order for us to live good, healthy lives, but having them makes things a lot better, and if it makes the tourists' experience better, I would consider that a need.

We don't NEED an aquarium. I, personally, do not even NEED the one we have now, 'though I love it dearly and know people who work (and have lived!) there. But need is not a word that really should enter into the discussion here; what should really be discussed is whether or not it would be good for all (or at least many) interests.


I think if our economy is tourism based then anything that attracts them is necessary for our economy to thrive. In that case then we do need certain facilities.

[WindwardOahuRN]

My daughter and three of my granddaughters from CA were here a few weeks ago. We went to the aquarium.

Just like in Lee's column, the two youngest (2 and 3.5 years old) screamed out "NEEEEEMOOOOOO!!!!" when they saw the clown fish in the tanks.

They LOVED that place. My daughter remarked that they had been at the Monterey Bay Aquarium a few months before and had not been nearly as excited by it. Too damn big.

I love that little aquarium too. I was thinking of volunteering there, actually. I could see myself introducing toddlers to sea cucumbers and hermit crabs.

[1stwahine]

The $75 million tax credit should be used for developing more housing and services for the homeless and those who can't pay the market rate for housing. Staring at fish is nice, but seeing people living on the beach--in their cars or in tents or with no cover at all-- instead of just visiting the beach for the day, is most definitely NOT nice.:(

Miulang

Exactly my feelings too.;)

I bring Antonio to the Aquarium. We love Love it. "Fishy, Fishy!!" My little one always says....

Auntie Lynn:D

[WindwardOahuRN]

Exactly my feelings too.;)

I bring Antonio to the Aquarium. We love Love it. "Fishy, Fishy!!" My little one always says....

Auntie Lynn:D

'ZACTLY!

The heck with what the tourists want.

Most of them are headed to Maui anyway, after they see Pearl Harbor.

[D'Alani]

We definitely do not need a new aquarium. Tourist come to Hawaii for its natural beauty, clean air, beautiful beaches, and because a lot of them still consider Hawaii a paradise. They don't come to visit an Aquarium when they can just as easily go snorkeling...and I know not everyone know how to swim. Keep the Kaka`ako waterfront as it is with all the open space it now provides.

[scrivener]

Most of them are headed to Maui anyway, after they see Pearl Harbor.
Citation, please.

[Miulang]

Citation, please.
Latest analysis of travellers (http://www.hvcb.org/trends/documents/TIU06-03ChangingVisitorAnalysis.xls)to Hawai'i from the HCVB (released this month).

"Compared to five years ago, Hawai‘i visitors are notably more likely to visit only one island during their stay in the state. Single-island visitors, who accounted for 73 percent of arrivals in 2000, now account for 77 percent of the market.

The number of arrivals who come for a Neighbor Island-only stay has also risen (from 32% in 2000, to 36% in 2005), especially for US West visitors. Parallel with the decrease in multi-island stays, the number of persons who engage in O‘ahu and Neighbor Island ""combo"" visits has declined as well (23% in 2000, down to 19% in 2005).

While O‘ahu’s share of U.S. travelers decreased between 2000 and 2005, the island made notable gains in the Japan (+1.4 percentage points) and Canada (+6.2 percentage points) markets.
"


Miulang

[lavagal]

Last summer we visited Adventure Aquarium in Camden, NJ. Not exactly what you'd expect to find in one of the state's, if not the country's, most crime ridden cities. But it is magnificent. And it draws the crowds. It has incredible displays, a shark tunnel, and even displays where scores of Nemo and Dora fish hang out with sea anenomes.
Our little aquarium is cute, but antiquated.
I don't object to a new aquarium in Kakaako. I'd prefer it there than one out at Ko Olina. I dare to disagree with those who assert that our cute little aquarium is sufficient.

[alohabear]

We could use an Aquarium here on the Big Island and a better zoo, and a theme park, a Chucky Cheese, Zippy's...:(

Amazing how statistics can really throw things out of perspective. I was the only vote for having an aquarium somewhere else and my single vote represents roughly 30% of those voted.I agree. Something like that could boost tourism on the Eastside. The zoo is ok because it's free. Maybe they could move Rusty to the "rainforest" zoo.

[LikaNui]

Good comments; interesting poll results.
Maybe if it was felt we had to have a new aquarium (see, Scriv? I didn't say "need"!) they could build it on all the empty space next to the Hawaiian Waters Adventure Park (which I thought was ridiculous to build, too), or perhaps next to Sea Life Park in Waimanalo. Just tossing those out.
I love what we have right now. Hell, if they tear it down, wouldn't they just build yet another awful hotel?
I think it was RN who said they'd thought about volunteering at the Waikiki Aquarium... most excellent! Hana hou.

[Keanu]

'ZACTLY!

The heck with what the tourists want.



I concur.:)

[Pomai]

All this relocating of major attractions is head-spinning. The Stadium. Now an Aquarium.

Rebuild the stadium on the same Halawa property. Keep the name, ALOHA STADIUM. Perfect central location. If they need more parking, make a multi-tiered lot on the side. But preserve most of the open lot for tailgating! Common.. that's a must!

Knock down Sea Life Park and rebuild it into a world-class Aquarium on the same property. Keep the name, SEA LIFE PARK. You couldn't ask for a better view, with Rabbit Island behind.

Both perfect, just where they are. That's the way we know it, and that's the way it should continue. They both just need structural updates. ;)

[Miulang]

If Oahu does get another aquarium, would it only get a one-time credit or would it become another black hole for the taxpayers of Honolulu and the
State?

How regularly would residents of Honolulu visit it as opposed to the tourists, knowing that admission rates (if it's built by the developer) would hover in the $25/ticket/adult range (it costs $23/adult to visit MOC)?

The Maui Ocean Center was built for about $20 million in 1998. It was developed by Coral World (a major internationally known developer of marine parks). I don't know if it got any tax credits from Maui County initially (they may have gotten some incentives for acquiring the land at that particular site, although that site was vacant scrub land for years and years once cane planting decreased, because it's so windy), but they are now supported through admissions and memberships and grants. Maalaea Triangle Partnership LLP owns the complex next door that houses the Pacific Whale Foundation and some restaurants and touristy shops.

Miulang

[lavagal]

Knock down Sea Life Park and rebuild it into a world-class Aquarium on the same property. Keep the name, SEA LIFE PARK. You couldn't ask for a better view, with Rabbit Island behind.

Both perfect, just where they are. That's the way we know it, and that's the way it should continue. They both just need structural updates. ;)

Sea Life Park is owned by a company in Mexico, they lease land from my employer, Oceanic Institute, who leases the land from the state. Maybe Sea Life Park's executives considered the idea already. Maybe for some reason, they don't see the need for it. There certainly isn't enough room for it. The land goes all the way up to the top of the ridge...which tends to send down boulders on occasion. There's a lot of land, but not much of it is stable enough or suitable enough to build an aquarium.

Since the idea of building the aquarium hit me below the belt (was that intentional?) why not think of other places to put one, without displacing those of us whose employer would be shut down? What about the old Kahuku Sugar Mill area?

[i-hungry]

I agree with Lee Cataluna. I also say that Waikiki Aquarium isn't "needed" either. But its already there so it should stay.

[LocoBoy]

Quote by scrivener: I, personally, do not even NEED the one we have now, 'though I love it dearly

Don't need it but love it?


As for me, I dig the aquarium and wouldn't mind a better one.

[craigwatanabe]

The Aquarium in Waikiki is a fantastic place! My kids always enjoyed going there and long for an aquatic showcase in Hilo. It's a safe way to learn and understand our reefs around our islands.

The Big Island lacks venues such as a good place to see our marine life. Why is it that when looking at the state as a whole, the only consideration remains Oahu? Everything is all about Oahu and forget the rest of the state.

Okay so fine another aquarium isn't needed on Oahu, but what about the neighbor islands? We are part of the state of Hawaii too.

[lavagal]

The Aquarium in Waikiki is a fantastic place! My kids always enjoyed going there and long for an aquatic showcase in Hilo. It's a safe way to learn and understand our reefs around our islands.

The Big Island lacks venues such as a good place to see our marine life. Why is it that when looking at the state as a whole, the only consideration remains Oahu? Everything is all about Oahu and forget the rest of the state.

Okay so fine another aquarium isn't needed on Oahu, but what about the neighbor islands? We are part of the state of Hawaii too.

I don't have a problem with that! I know Maui has one. If the Big Island wants one, why not? I wonder why developers don't bring it up.

[Kungpao]

Last summer we visited Adventure Aquarium in Camden, NJ. Not exactly what you'd expect to find in one of the state's, if not the country's, most crime ridden cities. But it is magnificent. And it draws the crowds. It has incredible displays, a shark tunnel, and even displays where scores of Nemo and Dora fish hang out with sea anenomes.
Our little aquarium is cute, but antiquated.
I don't object to a new aquarium in Kakaako. I'd prefer it there than one out at Ko Olina. I dare to disagree with those who assert that our cute little aquarium is sufficient.

I'm with you on this Lavagal... Except for maybe I'd prefer near Ko Olina. Thanagain, I'm biast. My parents own a timeshare there so that's where I stay when I visit.

Aquariums, to me aren't just pretty to look at the fish. They're rather educational and the way an aquarium is run helps teach ignorant folk how to care for the ocean and all it's surroundings. I was appalled at the amout of people that were on the reefs at Hanauma Bay after just viewing the mandatory video telling them not to! The Little Aquarium on Waikiki is wonderful! Albeit too small for my liking but I was amazed at the pools they had with all the coral clippings to be brought back into the ocean and all the conservation and education they gave. The Aquarium on Maui was definitely cool too although I was rushed through it and didn't get to spend much time in the tunnel. Monterey Bay Aquarium is one of my favorites. I love how they have a section that is fed right from the ocean. Adventure Aquarium in Camden, NJ was neat too. Definitely no what you'd expect in that neighborhood at all. I spent a good hour watching the LARGE sea turtle and equally LARGE Ray that they had in their large tank. Course this frightened me to think that Steve Irwin was swimming with these large Rays.

[Kungpao]

'ZACTLY!

The heck with what the tourists want.

Most of them are headed to Maui anyway, after they see Pearl Harbor.

I concur.:)

I don't get it. These types of venues are the ones that HI could be assessing tourist taxes on. Why doesn't the state do it? I would think that HI would benefit from collecting money from tourists in this sense no? I mean make it like a surcharge and if you are a HI resident, you don't have to pay it? I suppose that's another topic...:confused:

[lavagal]

Tourists fuel our economy. Ask anyone who has a hotel job, a taxi job, an airline or an airport job, dances at the Polynesian Culture Center, runs a parasail or snorkeling concession, rents surfboards, maintains a bed and breakfast, sells iced tea at an ABC Store, works at Germaine's Luau, owns a fancy restaurant or a hole in the wall store in Chinatown. Why is it so hip to piss on tourists?

I think Hawaii, a destination farther from any other place on earth, in the center of the Pacific Ocean, SHOULD have a WORLD-CLASS aquarium to explain the sea around it, the plight of the fish in the oceans, the beauty of corals and the little Nemo and Dora fishies that live there. Think of the partnerships that could be created between Hawaii's colleges and an aquarium. Think of the internship and job opportunities. Tourists who plan their trips would surely visit. School kids would go on class trips. Residents would bring their guests. And residents would be amazed an awed themselves. I do not SCUBA, probably won't, but I love all things of the sea. I think aquariums provide an educational service, and they trigger emotions right before delivering you to the gift shop where they get one last chance to raise funds to keep from operating in the red.
Let's find another segment of society that is more deserving of being picked on. Like legislators! They spend OUR money. At least tourists spend their own money!

[D'Alani]

I don't get it. These types of venues are the ones that HI could be assessing tourist taxes on. Why doesn't the state do it? I would think that HI would benefit from collecting money from tourists in this sense no? I mean make it like a surcharge and if you are a HI resident, you don't have to pay it? I suppose that's another topic...:confused:

One venue where the state is missing out on a lot "tourist tax" is the non existence of a larger hotel room tax for non residents which our legislators continue to shut down. Check out your hotel bill whenever you visit other states.

[Miulang]

The Aquarium in Waikiki is a fantastic place! My kids always enjoyed going there and long for an aquatic showcase in Hilo. It's a safe way to learn and understand our reefs around our islands.

The Big Island lacks venues such as a good place to see our marine life. Why is it that when looking at the state as a whole, the only consideration remains Oahu? Everything is all about Oahu and forget the rest of the state.

Okay so fine another aquarium isn't needed on Oahu, but what about the neighbor islands? We are part of the state of Hawaii too.
Lavagal is right: if the Big Island wants an aquarium, why not find somebody who's willing to build it? Doesn't have to be as big and sprawling as Maui Ocean Center (which really is world class) but something smaller, maybe an aquarium the size of the Waikiki Aquarium and make it more for the residents and not for the tourists so it's more affordable (even with a 10% kama'aina discount, admission prices for an adult at MOC are still > $20, and how many locals can afford to go someplace that charges $20/head all the time? For a family of 4, that would be close to $100, nevermind the food and the souvenirs that you would end up buying.:eek: Does UHH have a marine biology dept.? Maybe a developer could work something out with the UH and have a little aquarium on the Big Island that can also be used for research purposes.

Miulang

[Kungpao]

I'm not hip on pissing on tourists... mainly cause I'm one myself but in my own view, I wouldn't see it as being pissed on for being a tourist. I would see it as a way to give back to the place that I'm being a tourist in. I could go on about other things like sales tax but it's not the place. As a tourist... I personally feel that it's rather cheap to go out there as opposed to going on vacation in let's say Chicago to visit my folks where sales tax is 9%

[Miulang]

I'm not hip on pissing on tourists... mainly cause I'm one myself but in my own view, I wouldn't see it as being pissed on for being a tourist. I would see it as a way to give back to the place that I'm being a tourist in. I could go on about other things like sales tax but it's not the place. As a tourist... I personally feel that it's rather cheap to go out there as opposed to going on vacation in let's say Chicago to visit my folks where sales tax is 9%
The "tourist surcharge" for Hawai'i is pretty steep, Kungpao, if you rent a hotel room or condo or a car, plus the fact that you don't get any "kama'aina discounts" which are worth about 10% off the price of admission at some of the local attractions and restaurants. Hawai'i is and always has been a place where upper middle class and rich folks love to play.

Miulang

[Hellbent]

I finally got to visit the Waikiki Aquarium. I liked it, but the only other aquarium I've visited is the San Diego or was it San Francisco? Either way it was much bigger.
I dont agree that people only come here for sand and sea; while maybe alot do, I cant swim, so scuba is sort of out for me. As I stated before, I'd like to see a casino on 1 island, and a disney-like resort on another.
I'd say build a newer bigger one if it replaces the old one (in another location) but another one to compete? no.

[Kungpao]

The "tourist surcharge" for Hawai'i is pretty steep, Kungpao, if you rent a hotel room or condo or a car, plus the fact that you don't get any "kama'aina discounts" which are worth about 10% off the price of admission at some of the local attractions and restaurants. Hawai'i is and always has been a place where upper middle class and rich folks love to play.

Miulang

Hmm... i suppose I didn't notice. I feel like i pay more for the things I do closer to home than there....

Thenagain, i'm a cheap SOB and scour around for all the best deals I can get.



BTW... I'm not upper middle class. I just chose to spend my money certain ways. Work hard... play harder....

[craigwatanabe]

Hmm... i suppose I didn't notice. I feel like i pay more for the things I do closer to home than there....

Thenagain, i'm a cheap SOB and scour around for all the best deals I can get.



BTW... I'm not upper middle class. I just chose to spend my money certain ways. Work hard... play harder....

Ahhh but if you worked smarter you'd be upper middle class by now:D

[Keanu]

Tourists fuel our economy. Ask anyone who has a hotel job, a taxi job, an airline or an airport job, dances at the Polynesian Culture Center, runs a parasail or snorkeling concession, rents surfboards, maintains a bed and breakfast, sells iced tea at an ABC Store, works at Germaine's Luau, owns a fancy restaurant or a hole in the wall store in Chinatown. Why is it so hip to piss on tourists?

The tourism industry places tremendous pressure on the local environment and culture. Increasing visitor arrivals lead to overcrowded beaches, strained natural resources, clogged roadways and overburdened natural areas. In addition, the effect of adding millions of tourists to the islands’ population each year has an as yet unmeasured impact on our island's limited water resources. More tourists means more roads, more traffic, more power plants, greater freshwater and electricity demands, increased development pressure, and more pollution. Moreover,tourism growth brings the degradation of native Hawaiian’s cultural heritage values. Are tourist dollars worth all this? I don't think so.

I was born and raised here, like my parents, grandparents, and great parents before me. I worry that the Hawaii my son grows up in will be nothing like the Hawaii I grew up loving.My sentiments have nothing to do with the "hipness" of "pissing on tourists" and everything to do with the survival of my island home.

The land doesn't belong to us; we belong to it, and the sooner people realize this, the better off Hawaii will be.

[Keanu]

Tourists fuel our economy. Ask anyone who has a hotel job, a taxi job, an airline or an airport job, dances at the Polynesian Culture Center, runs a parasail or snorkeling concession, rents surfboards, maintains a bed and breakfast, sells iced tea at an ABC Store, works at Germaine's Luau, owns a fancy restaurant or a hole in the wall store in Chinatown. Why is it so hip to piss on tourists?

The tourism industry places tremendous pressure on the local environment and culture. Increasing visitor arrivals lead to overcrowded beaches, strained natural resources, clogged roadways and overburdened natural areas. In addition, the effect of adding millions of tourists to the islands’ population each year has an as yet unmeasured impact on our island's limited water resources. More tourists means more roads, more traffic, more power plants, greater freshwater and electricity demands, increased development pressure, and more pollution. Moreover, tourism growth brings the degradation of native Hawaiian’s cultural heritage values.

I was born and raised here, like my parents, grandparents, and great parents before me. I worry that the Hawaii my son grows up in will be nothing like the Hawaii I grew up loving.My sentiments have nothing to do with the "hipness" of "pissing on tourists" and everything to do with the survival of my island home.

Weren't you the one who said that it would be a good idea to use the old Kahuku Sugar Mill as a location for an aqaurium? That in itself should show that your logic is rather reckless.

The land doesn't belong to us; we belong to it, and the sooner people realize this, the better off Hawaii will be.

[tutusue]

[...]I was born and raised here, like my parents, grandparents, and great parents before me. I worry that the Hawaii my son grows up in will be nothing like the Hawaii I grew up loving.[...]
A curiosity question, Keanu...
Have you asked your parents if they had the same worry for you when you were growing up? Were you fortunate enough to have your grandparents and great grandparents around to ask them the same question? It'd be interesting to know if each generation saw changes that caused them the same concerns you're feeling now for your son.

My dad and I are kamaaina Laguna Beach!!! I distinctly remember him remarking on the negative changes from when he was a kid. Once I had kids, I started noticing the changes and longed for them to live in the same unfettered town and times that their grandpa and I had lived.

Then...I moved to Hawaii! :D

[lavagal]

The land doesn't belong to us; we belong to it, and the sooner people realize this, the better off Hawaii will be.

True. And so it always blows my mind when I see disposable diapers left on the beach. Protect the aina. Blame tourism. I guess we can blame tourism for graffiti throughout Hawaii, too. But that's another thread.


You can reject tourism all you want. But who exactly is listening to that argument? The governor? The Legislature? HVCB? City Council? Is the argument to stop tourism? How will you stop tourism? Wouldn't accepting it and managing it well be a better approach?

[Miulang]

True. And so it always blows my mind when I see disposable diapers left on the beach. Protect the aina. Blame tourism. I guess we can blame tourism for graffiti throughout Hawaii, too. But that's another thread.


You can reject tourism all you want. But who exactly is listening to that argument? The governor? The Legislature? HVCB? City Council? Is the argument to stop tourism? How will you stop tourism? Wouldn't accepting it and managing it well be a better approach?
Well, as far as "ruining" Hawai'i, it ain't just the tourists who are causing the problems! There are some beaches on Maui that only the locals inhabit that are littered with cigarette butts, beer bottles/cans, dirty poopy diapers. In fact, in many ways, the tourists do respect Hawai'i's beaches more than the locals do.

And the big box stores would not be coming to Hawai'i in droves if the locals weren't clamoring for them. So everybody who's in Hawai'i---residents and tourists--could be contributing to the demise of Hawai'i as a paradise.

Miulang

[Keanu]

A curiosity question, Keanu...
Have you asked your parents if they had the same worry for you when you were growing up? Were you fortunate enough to have your grandparents and great grandparents around to ask them the same question? It'd be interesting to know if each generation saw changes that caused them the same concerns you're feeling now for your son.

My dad and I are kamaaina Laguna Beach!!! I distinctly remember him remarking on the negative changes from when he was a kid. Once I had kids, I started noticing the changes and longed for them to live in the same unfettered town and times that their grandpa and I had lived.

Then...I moved to Hawaii! :D

I haven't asked my parents that question, perhaps I should. Both of my parents grew up in the Kahalu'u/ Waiahole area (Where they still live today) and not much has changed there over the years, thankfully. In restrospect, It would have been a very good question to ask my grandparents, as Hawai'i was a much different place when they were growing up.

[lavagal]

Well, as far as "ruining" Hawai'i, it ain't just the tourists who are causing the problems! There are some beaches on Maui that only the locals inhabit that are littered with cigarette butts, beer bottles/cans, dirty poopy diapers. In fact, in many ways, the tourists do respect Hawai'i's beaches more than the locals do.

And the big box stores would not be coming to Hawai'i in droves if the locals weren't clamoring for them. So everybody who's in Hawai'i---residents and tourists--could be contributing to the demise of Hawai'i as a paradise.

Miulang

Amen to all that. So I'm CERTAIN everyone would even enjoy a BIG aquarium.

Does anyone want to ask me how much New Jersey has changed since I grew up? I go back because it's a favorite place, has great childhood memories for me, but it is so different. I don't feel as though I belong anymore. I've lived here longer than I lived there. I certainly wouldn't want anyone like Keanu and those of you whose families go back generations to ever feel as though you didn't belong in Hawaii. I don't wish that on my husband's family, nor my own children, who were born here.

[Keanu]

True. And so it always blows my mind when I see disposable diapers left on the beach. Protect the aina. Blame tourism. I guess we can blame tourism for graffiti throughout Hawaii, too. But that's another thread.

Blame for our Island's woes fall upon many people...locals and tourist alike. Having said that, I will ignore your sarcasm as there are more pertinent issues for me to concern myself with.


You can reject tourism all you want. But who exactly is listening to that argument? The governor? The Legislature? HVCB? City Council? Is the argument to stop tourism? How will you stop tourism? Wouldn't accepting it and managing it well be a better approach?

Who's listening? Not the people who should be that's for sure. Unfortunately our State and County governments are short sighted and incorrigble.They decided long ago that they will continue to throw all of their eggs in one basket (The tourism industry). Realizing that tourism is and will probably always be a sad reality for us, the alternative would be ecologically sustainable tourism. The impacts of the visitor industry upon the environmental, social, cultural, and economic fabrics of the local community should always be taken into account, not as a formality but as a requirement whenever new developments are proposed.

[Keanu]

In fact, in many ways, the tourists do respect Hawai'i's beaches more than the locals do.

I will respectfully disagree with you. I have spent much of my life in and around Hawaii beaches... needless to say, I don't see things the same way you do. There are good people on both sides of the fence but to say that tourists respect Hawaii's beaches more than the locals do is a bit presumptous. I'm sure Kala Alexander and his friends would disagree with your comments as well.


And the big box stores would not be coming to Hawai'i in droves if the locals weren't clamoring for them. So everybody who's in Hawai'i---residents and tourists--could be contributing to the demise of Hawai'i as a paradise.



I share your sentiments here. Fwiw, I haven't spent a dime in Walmart. :D

[Miulang]

I will respectfully disagree with you. I have spent much of my life in and around Hawaii beaches... needless to say, I don't see things the same way you do. There are good people on both sides of the fence but to say that tourists respect Hawaii's beaches more than the locals do is a bit presumptous. I'm sure Kala Alexander and his friends would disagree with your comments as well.

The State managed beaches (where both locals and tourists play) are great on Maui...clean, well maintained.

The COUNTY beaches (where tourists don't generally visit because they don't have the "proper" facilities and don't rank highly in the tourist guides---like Baby Beach in Sprecklesville) are the places I usually visit, and they are always littered with butts, bottles and diapers. I was always taught to leave things in BETTER condition than when I arrive, and I usually pick up trash when I see it. There are lots of other places on Maui where only the locals go where you see the same thing. I can only speak with authority about Maui. Could the County do more to help the locals keep their private locals-only beaches clean? Sure, they could provide portapotties and more trash cans, but would the locals use them?

EVERYBODY in Hawai'i--kama'aina and malihini alike--has an obligation to malama 'aina, because if everyone leaves that to the next person, before you know it, nobody will care.

Miulang

P.S. Maui until very recently was also called the "abandoned car sculpture" island because we had lots of abandoned cars littering the highways. That was partly the fault of the County because it closed down the only car recycler for awhile, but only LOCALs would abandon junker cars, not the tourists. And talk about lazy...locals are dumping all kinds of 'opala all along the road (Pulehu Rd.) immediately outside the Central Maui Landfill. If the dump is closed, why not just take the 'opala with you to dump when it's open??? Instead, you have plastic bags, pieces of paper and lord only knows what else blowing in the breeze all along Pulehu Rd. Thank god the tourists don't normally travel on that road. They would be appalled.

[LikaNui]

to say that tourists respect Hawaii's beaches more than the locals do is a bit presumptous. So you think that it's tourists who discard zillions of derelict cars and rusty refrigerators and bald tires and broken stoves and termite-riddled cabinets along the side of Hawai`i's roads, sometimes mere feet from the entrance to free garbage dumps? :rolleyes:

And to LavaGal -- methinks your tongue-in-cheek comment on this went WHOOSH right over a couple of heads. :p

[LikaNui]

I was always taught to leave things in BETTER condition than when I arrive, and I usually pick up trash when I see it. Amen. As the saying goes, "Take only photographs; leave only footprints."

Instead, you have plastic bags, pieces of paper and lord only knows what else blowing in the breeze all along Pulehu Rd. Thank god the tourists don't normally travel on that road. They would be appalled. Sadly, on O`ahu it's on back roads and on major roads too. :(

[Keanu]

So you think that it's tourists who discard zillions of derelict cars and rusty refrigerators and bald tires and broken stoves and termite-riddled cabinets along the side of Hawai`i's roads, sometimes mere feet from the entrance to free garbage dumps? :rolleyes:


Feel free to come back to the discussion when you're able to make a distinction bewteen beaches and roads.Next time, try not to let your feeblemindedness get in the way.:p

[Miulang]

Feel free to come back to the discussion when you're able to make a distinction bewteen beaches and roads.Next time, try not to let your feeblemindedness get in the way.:p
That's kinda OT anyway, Keanu. (mea culpa, I may have been the one who derailed it in the first place). This thread is about whether the County should give a developer a $75 million tax credit to build a new aquarium in Kaka'ako. If anything, the subtext of this thread is whether a new aquarium should be built more for the taxpayers or for the tourists. I think that's where the conversation veered off to the beaches and highways of Hawai'i.:D

Miulang

[Keanu]

That's kinda OT anyway, Keanu. (mea culpa, I may have been the one who derailed it in the first place). This thread is about whether the County should give a developer a $75 million tax credit to build a new aquarium in Kaka'ako. If anything, the subtext of this thread is whether a new aquarium should be built more for the taxpayers or for the tourists. I think that's where the conversation veered off to the beaches and highways of Hawai'i.:D

Miulang


:)

I'll accept blame for the topic diversion. Thanks for bringing the original topic of conversation back into play.

[lavagal]

So you think that it's tourists who discard zillions of derelict cars and rusty refrigerators and bald tires and broken stoves and termite-riddled cabinets along the side of Hawai`i's roads, sometimes mere feet from the entrance to free garbage dumps? :rolleyes:

And to LavaGal -- methinks your tongue-in-cheek comment on this went WHOOSH right over a couple of heads. :p

USED TO IT! :rolleyes:

[Miulang]

"Nemo" was brought up a little earlier in this thread. Not many people know (and the local aquariums don't really tell people this) but the clownfish from which the Nemo character was created are not Hawaiian reef fish and therefore not representative of what snorklers see.

Yellow tangs, Moorish Idols, hinalea, kole, ta'ape, aholehole , manini and mamo are the common Hawaiian reef fish.

Clownfish (ocellaris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocellaris_Clownfish) or percula) are endemic to the South Pacific, and waters off Indonesia and the Philippines. They're also bred and hatched in captivity now because they are so hardy. I have a couple of tank-raised tomato clownfish in my own tank right now, in fact.

One other cool thing about clownfish is they can change sexes! And if you have 2 of them in your tank, they'll agree with each other somehow that one will be the boy clownfish and the other will be the girl clownfish (and the female is always the LARGER one).;)

Miulang

[Kungpao]

Ahhh but if you worked smarter you'd be upper middle class by now

HAHA! Oh but only if my chosen proffession would allow me the the opportunity to make more money. Sadly, a CAD Draftsman can only make so much.

"Nemo" was brought up a little earlier in this thread. Not many people know (and the local aquariums don't really tell people this) but the clownfish from which the Nemo character was created are not Hawaiian reef fish and therefore not representative of what snorklers see.

Yellow tangs, Moorish Idols, hinalea, kole, ta'ape, aholehole , manini and mamo are the common Hawaiian reef fish.

Clownfish (ocellaris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocellaris_Clownfish) or percula) are endemic to the South Pacific, and waters off Indonesia and the Philippines. They're also bred and hatched in captivity now because they are so hardy. I have a couple of tank-raised tomato clownfish in my own tank right now, in fact.

One other cool thing about clownfish is they can change sexes! And if you have 2 of them in your tank, they'll agree with each other somehow that one will be the boy clownfish and the other will be the girl clownfish (and the female is always the LARGER one).

Miulang

I had a tank raised clown once even had an anemone that it got along with. I'd love to have a maroon/gold clown! Sadly, I moved and trying to move a marine tank is quite difficult and it didn't survive.:( Not to mention that a pet store allowed me to buy a choc chip starfish without informing me that it would eat the anemone:mad:

Next time someone's at the Waikiki aquarium, could you look at the exhibit that has how they run the water filtration system with the computer? I was going to write the manufacturer down to see if they made anything for home use but I forgot to.

Ultimately, I'd like to have a 100+ gallon bow front with live rock and a triangle triggerfish;)

[Miulang]

Ultimately, I'd like to have a 100+ gallon bow front with live rock and a triangle triggerfish;)
Heh. I've had some very expensive sashimi in my tank! Flame angels, Potter's angels, plus yellow tangs, squirrelfish, Hawaiian cleaner wrasses, coris wrasses, bird wrasses, ta'ape, etc. etc. Even had an aholehole I nicknamed Bubba who, by the time of his untimely demise, grew to be about 6 inches long, which was way too big for the 45 gallon tank I have! Finally I realized I was not meant to be the parent of really expensive Hawaiian reef fish (maybe it's because I don't clean the tank often enough and aren't religious about measuring chemical levels or water temperature) so I now just have "colorful" fish that are tank raised: my 2 tomato clowns and a couple of yellow tailed blue damsels!:D

Triggerfish are very very aggressive little buggers. And they love to chew on coral!

Miulang

[Miulang]

I'm really rather impressed with your legislators this session. Not only are they debating critical issues like CON and Superferry, but they are considering using the $75 million tax credit to help support affordable housing on the North Shore (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070214/BUSINESS02/702140360/1071). I think this would be a much better use of your taxpayer dollars than an aquarium would be.

A controversial $75 million state tax credit originally meant for an aquarium at Ko Olina Resort & Marina would go toward tax credits for affordable rental housing and tourism training facilities on the Leeward Coast, under a bill advanced by a Senate committee yesterday.

The measure would repeal the Ko Olina tax credit and instead establish tax credits of up to $50 million for affordable housing projects and up to $25 million for educational and training facilities operated together with visitor accommodations in the area.

To qualify for the tax credits, housing projects must rent all units to households with incomes at or below 60 percent of the Honolulu median income, which the state says is no more than $42,780 for a family of four. The housing and training facilities would be within the Leeward Coast, defined as Senate President Colleen Hanabusa's district, which spans Nanakuli to Makaha.



Did Sen. Hanabusa introduce this bill, since it's her district that would benefit from its passage?

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

I'm really rather impressed with your legislators this session. Not only are they debating critical issues like CON and Superferry, but they are considering using the $75 million tax credit to help support affordable housing on the North Shore (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070214/BUSINESS02/702140360/1071). I think this would be a much better use of your taxpayer dollars than an aquarium would be.



Did Sen. Hanabusa introduce this bill, since it's her district that would benefit from its passage?

Miulang

She probably did but cannot remember who asked her to do so:D

[1stwahine]

She probably did but cannot remember who asked her to do so:D

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Too Funny!!!!:p

Good catch Craig!

Auntie Lynn:D

[craigwatanabe]

Tanks eh auntie!

Now back to the poll. I take offense to the selection that says "we" don't need another aquarium. Who is "we" the state of Hawaii or just Oahu?

Yeah maybe Oahu doesn't need one but I think we should be all encompassing when asking if there should be another aquarium anywhere in the state of Hawaii.

[LikaNui]

I take offense to the selection that says "we" don't need another aquarium. Who is "we" the state of Hawaii or just Oahu?Point taken, Craig. But when I started this thread, it was strictly about aquariums on O`ahu and not the outer islands. Thread drift got it off topic. So perhaps you could start another thread about aquariums on the outer islands, and include a poll for that too? Sounds like a good thread to me.