Homeless Dumping? Or Urban Myth?

[tvguy]

I'll start this thread off by saying I have no intention of offending anyone, homeless or mentally ill, but here's something I've been wondering about for awhile. I remember hearing rumors of homeless people on the mainland being supplied one-way tickets to Hawaii. And from what I'm seeing now I'm wondering how true this may be. I'm by no means a racist, or one who easily stereotypes folks, but man, a lot of the guys who are panhandling at intersections sure don't look like they are from here. I always thought panhandling on the streets was something I only saw when visiting the mainland. And anyone notice the same guys alternating between Vineyard, Kahala, and Pearl Ridge? I also drive through Iwilei frequently, and I swear there's a lot of "non-local" looking homeless who don't look like they were born and raised here.

Just today, I was approached by two disheveled (ok, and smelly too) Hispanic men asking for some change near old Stadium Park. "Senor, have you got any change?" Once again, I'm not one to stereotype, but these guys REALLY seemed out of place. How or why did they get here? On another occasion, the last time I traveled to Honolulu from San Francisco, I happened to notice a homeless guy in the waiting area. Believe me, this guy looked like he lived at the airport. A little while later, I see him board the plane, and after we land at HNL, he walked off with nothing in his possession.

Or maybe I'm just wrong and unfairly pigeon-holing these folks and being a paranoid local. Thoughts?

BTW, my favorite guy with a sign sits across the Liliha McDonald's with a sign the reads, "Will play baseball for food."

[helen]

I had the impression that this is an out of date rumor. You are not imply that this is still happening post 9/11?

[SusieMisajon]

You shoulda asked the guy.

[tutusue]

Auntie Lynn addressed this subject recently. Don't know whether it was in HT or her blog. Anyway, iirc, it's not an urban myth. Many mainland homeless people have been given one way tickets to Hawaii when numbers drop at the IHS. They need to keep the count up to keep their funding. Hopefully Lynn will pop in here and direct you to her post. And, hopefully, I didn't butcher the explanation too much.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Auntie Lynn addressed this subject recently. Don't know whether it was in HT or her blog. Anyway, iirc, it's not an urban myth. Many mainland homeless people have been given one way tickets to Hawaii when numbers drop at the IHS. They need to keep the count up to keep their funding. Hopefully Lynn will pop in here and direct you to her post. And, hopefully, I didn't butcher the explanation too much.

IME, many of our homeless have been given one-way tickets by their FAMILIES on the mainland.

Mentally ill,substance abusers, burdens on their families...we see it all the time. It is up to us to try and establish contact with next of kin. Most times, several family members show up, declare that they "want everything done" and then take off again.

[tvguy]

Wow. So my next question is what kind of solution is there? How does this affect our already-growing homeless population? Obviously, this is the U.S.A. and people are free to move about as they wish. We can't just send them away and make them a burden to someone else. But how much of a burden does this put on resources? Does this burden us as taxpayers? Hard times.....

[Glen Miyashiro]

This is one of the reasons why I think that Hawaiʻi's independence from the USA isn't a crazy idea. If we were a sovereign nation, we could restrict immigration from everywhere else. As long as Hawaiʻi remains a part of the USA, we will have no power to stop U.S. citizens from moving here, because the commerce clause of the U.S. Constitution guarantees them that right.

[WindwardOahuRN]

This is one of the reasons why I think that Hawaiʻi's independence from the USA isn't a crazy idea. If we were a sovereign nation, we could restrict immigration from everywhere else. As long as Hawaiʻi remains a part of the USA, we will have no power to stop U.S. citizens from moving here, because the commerce clause of the U.S. Constitution guarantees them that right.

Sure. And maybe we could declare that every day would be the first day of Spring. Every heart would have a new song to sing. And we'd sing of the joy every new day would bring.

:::All together now:::

Dream on.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Everybody hold hands, and we'll sing Hawaiʻi Aloha. :rolleyes:

[GnosticWarrior]

We live in a world of limited resources. So govt. can't adequately provide basic food, shelter, clothing, medical, and education to everyone who wants it without sacraficing some to those who need it the most. Govt. must do a better job of determining who should be focused on and honestly who get's excluded. I think we should focus on homeless children first and the parents of those children second. All other homeless are excluded until all homeless children are adequately provided for. This is one way to minimize outside homeless from taking away resources from those from here.

[1stwahine]

In Post #337 of How so we help the Homeless Thread?

It is not an Urban Myth!!!!

As for IHS...I've heard stories as well from a man and woman who lived there. I wrote about it in my Blog somewhere. If what they told me is true...it is horrors.:eek: The jest of it. IHS puts out a an advertisement on the mainland. They purchase one way tickets for transients and pick them up at the airport. Transport them directly to IHS. This is done to make sure the capacity of people is kept at a certain level so they can keep receiving Federal Funds.

Too hard to believe? I thought so too. But not when I serve the Hunger and the Homeless at KauKau Wagon on Saturdays. I ask "Where do you come from?" I've been asking...it's always the same. Most of them come from the Mainland.

Yes. We have our little elderly oriental ladies and local people who come. We are there not to judge nor talk about religion. We are there to feed. However, I can not help but wonder where do these people come from. Surely they have families who love them.

For everyone has a story to tell.

Auntie Lynn

As for the ones asking foa money. It was mentioned here before too. The three men who frequent Vineyard/Liliha and School Streets are ALL Cocaine Addicts!!! Do not give them one cent. They make $$$ then go Chinatown and purchase their Crack Cocaine to Smoke and Laugh at the people who fall for their puppie sad faces and moomoo legs as they limp and walk. But did you know when they are pau collecting $$$ ~ they run to Chinatown to get their first HIT of the day!

When they see Leimomi coming ~ they head the other way. One of these days...I plan to hold a sign too. As I stand in the sun right along side of them, tell motorists NOT to give $$$ to these DRUG ADDICTS!!!

[joshuatree]

Wow. So my next question is what kind of solution is there? How does this affect our already-growing homeless population? Obviously, this is the U.S.A. and people are free to move about as they wish. We can't just send them away and make them a burden to someone else. But how much of a burden does this put on resources? Does this burden us as taxpayers? Hard times.....

Get Dateline to run a story on it. Media exposure usually works well on problems like these.

[Lei K]

I'll start this thread off by saying I have no intention of offending anyone, homeless or mentally ill, but here's something I've been wondering about for awhile. I remember hearing rumors of homeless people on the mainland being supplied one-way tickets to Hawaii. And from what I'm seeing now I'm wondering how true this may be.

Wow, I had no clue this was happening. As if Hawai`i's homeless problem isn't bad enough.

[1stwahine]

Get Dateline to run a story on it. Media exposure usually works well on problems like these.

The Harry & Jeanette Weinberg Foundation, Inc. is a Mighty and POWERFUL Company. Anyone who dares to investigate is bound to fall to ruins. :eek: There are those who know the Truth but are too afraid to speak out. :rolleyes:

This is no manini stuff. This is billions! They don't care. They DONATE plenty to our communities but in return they receive much more from Federal grants. It's business. Money makes money. Simple.

Media exposure? It's not gonna do nuttin.:(

Power, Money and Greed ~ ring a bell?

It should.

Auntie Lynn

Oh! Btw: Why do I write about it? Cause I'm Pua and PuPule! HAHAHAHAHAHA

[joshuatree]

You're probably right but also remember, Dateline is NBC and NBC is also a very powerful media. You pit a titan against a titan. ;)

Dateline's done a myriad of topics, from catching internet predators to tracking down international phishing scams. Somehow, I don't think they will be afraid of HJW Foundation if they are interested in investigating this issue.

[1stwahine]

You're probably right but also remember, Dateline is NBC and NBC is also a very powerful media. You pit a titan against a titan. ;)

Dateline's done a myriad of topics, from catching internet predators to tracking down international phishing scams. Somehow, I don't think they will be afraid of HJW Foundation if they are interested in investigating this issue.

Hmmmm...you may have something there. Afta all there once were some mighty Powerful Bishop Trustees who wen fall!:p heheheh

Auntie Lynn

[WindwardOahuRN]

In Post #337 of How so we help the Homeless Thread?

It is not an Urban Myth!!!!



As for the ones asking foa money. It was mentioned here before too. The three men who frequent Vineyard/Liliha and School Streets are ALL Cocaine Addicts!!! Do not give them one cent. They make $$$ then go Chinatown and purchase their Crack Cocaine to Smoke and Laugh at the people who fall for their puppie sad faces and moomoo legs as they limp and walk. But did you know when they are pau collecting $$$ ~ they run to Chinatown to get their first HIT of the day!

When they see Leimomi coming ~ they head the other way. One of these days...I plan to hold a sign too. As I stand in the sun right along side of them, tell motorists NOT to give $$$ to these DRUG ADDICTS!!!

A while ago I was stopped at the light just before Vineyard on the Pali, just before the underpass. There was one of the guys I think you are talking about, holding a cardboard sign: "HUNGRY."

The man in front of me rolled down the window of his car and called the guy over. Then he handed him a protein bar.

There was much profanity on the part of the receiver. :rolleyes:

Do you know what happened to the couple that was there around Christmas time? The woman was horribly scrawny. She didn't look long for this world.

[1stwahine]

A while ago I was stopped at the light just before Vineyard on the Pali, just before the underpass. There was one of the guys I think you are talking about, holding a cardboard sign: "HUNGRY."

The man in front of me rolled down the window of his car and called the guy over. Then he handed him a protein bar.

There was much profanity on the part of the receiver. :rolleyes:

Do you know what happened to the couple that was there around Christmas time? The woman was horribly scrawny. She didn't look long for this world.

HAHAHAHAHA

The giver was SMART. Protein Bar.:p Me ~ I would give WHACK WHACKS!!!

I don't remember a couple. More than like they congregate in Chinatown. It is a haven for Drugs and Illegal Activities.:o

Just a reminder folks. Don't give $ to anyone. If you must give ~ give like the man who gave a Protein Bar. It is wiser to give to a known charity. One that is LOCAL and one which you can see for yourself how the funds are used. It doesn't have to be $$$. Clothes and just being kind.

Love and ALOHA ~ is the Key.

[tvguy]

The man in front of me rolled down the window of his car and called the guy over. Then he handed him a protein bar.

There was much profanity on the part of the receiver. :rolleyes:


Sorry, couldn't resist this one.....beggars can't be choosers. :)

[Lei K]

A while ago I was stopped at the light just before Vineyard on the Pali, just before the underpass. There was one of the guys I think you are talking about, holding a cardboard sign: "HUNGRY."

The man in front of me rolled down the window of his car and called the guy over. Then he handed him a protein bar.

There was much profanity on the part of the receiver. :rolleyes:

I've actually seen something like this happen around here. At a freeway offramp there was a couple sitting with "hungry" signs. A person actually got out of their car to go to their trunk (holding up traffic) and got a bag full of groceries. It looked as if they just bought these things and was kind enough to give these people food they had just bought for themselves.

The "hungry" people got mad, refused the food and told them they'd much prefer money, though they didn't say it quite as nice. :eek:

People like these make folks who would normally help out jaded. I think it's sad that these people ruin things for those out on the streets, really hungry, who would appreciate the food.

[Leo Lakio]

The whole scenario is awful - but I have seen some creative sign-makers on the streets of Seattle, including "Ninjas killed my father - need money for karate lessons."

[1stwahine]

People like these make folks who would normally help out jaded. I think it's sad that these people ruin things for those out on the streets, really hungry, who would appreciate the food.

I mentioned before about having Categories of The Homeless.

Those like the ones you posted are the will nuts! Those who WILL NOT do nuttin to make their LIFE betta. People who take advantage of the system and anything they can. They are the scum of the scum. Why should they work when they have discovered a way to live day to day from Government Programs and People's pity.

The have nut's ~ are those who have but not enough to make it.:o

The nut nut's ~ Those who have mental illness and wonder through Society. They can be a danger if provoked. Especially, when not on medication. Many go about in their own world. Every so often, one of them commits a crime that brings attention to the problem and then it is forgotten again.

I can go on and on but you get the picture.

Who gets hurt? The children. It becomes a vicious cycle.:(

Auntie Lynn

[modpirate]

Most impressive beggar I ever saw was a guy with a sign that said "WHY LIE? I WANT A BEER." I'll bet a lot of people gave him money for his honesty alone.

[1stwahine]

A common one in Chinatown is "I like borrow DOLLA!" Of course, with no intention of repaying!:p

Auntie Lynn

[blueyecicle]

Most impressive beggar I ever saw was a guy with a sign that said "WHY LIE? I WANT A BEER." I'll bet a lot of people gave him money for his honesty alone.

We sees those ALOT here (oregon)....except they say WEED or CHEW or DRUGS.
It's sad really.

[ptosis]

[QUOTE=tutusue;138884 homeless people have been given one way tickets to Hawaii when numbers drop at the IHS. They need to keep the count up to keep their funding.[/QUOTE]

?? It's the other way around, go to social services and they ask if you have family in mainland, they send you one way ticket out of Hawai'i. Cheaper for the state that way.

Need I.D. to stay at I.H.S.

Need electric bill or Rental Agreement, in order to get Hawai'i state I.D. (no accept mailed bills).

Need I.D. to get on plane

Yess folks, you NEED a rental agreement or electric bill along with the Birth certificate and other certified legal documents in order to get I.D.

Without proper I.D. become a non-person like in old Russia - and you wonder why they are Fr#$king homeless?

Heartless what you said, totally cold.





SewageKingPublic_hearing_on.html (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/217791/epa_will_conduct_a_public_hearing_on.html)

[cynsaligia]

a few years ago, the beau and i once had dinner at a bday party held at indigo. there was a lot of food left so we went home with six styro boxes. on the way home, we were stopped at the pali-vineyard intersection where there was a scrubby looking guy holding up one of those signs. eric called him over and handed him one of the plastic bags holding three of the styro boxes. he very gratefully took it.

earlier this year, eric bagged a bunch of plastic bottles and put them in the back seat of my car (we've been carpooling in my little coupe instead of us both driving, him in his full sized truck, since he and i work fairly near each other). eric told me his intent was to give it to one of the homeless people who hold signs at intersections.

the opportunity didn't come up for weeks so finally eric gave the bag to one of the maintenance people at his work since s/he recycles more often than we do.

eric's motivation for this was because one day, we were at the intersection of liliha and vineyard where one of the homeless signholders stood. i, remembering the leftover food incident a few years ago, got all moosh-hearted and started to reach into my bag for some dollar bills. eric stopped me at that time and i gave him a two minute lecture about how we have so much and they have so little blah blah blah.

so if there's any truth to the idea that these signholders will use my cash for drugs, i'll not pull my wallet out again.

[na alii]

And anyone notice the same guys alternating between Vineyard, Kahala, and Pearl Ridge?
There's this one guy that walks with a limp. He doesn't even have a gimp leg. One day we were dining at Denny's Pearlridge and the same guy was in Denny's changing all his ones to bigger bills at the cashier and ordered a take out drink at the same time. So we watched this guy and noticed he walked normally heading towards the area he panhandles and then as he gets closer he starts limping. What a fake this guy is.

[1stwahine]

so if there's any truth to the idea that these signholders will use my cash for drugs, i'll not pull my wallet out again.

There's this one guy that walks with a limp. He doesn't even have a gimp leg. One day we were dining at Denny's Pearlridge and the same guy was in Denny's changing all his ones to bigger bills at the cashier and ordered a take out drink at the same time. So we watched this guy and noticed he walked normally heading towards the area he panhandles and then as he gets closer he starts limping. What a fake this guy is.

Once again, please do not give to anyone holding signs and asking for $$$ at the various intersections. They are DRUG Addicts!!!

The guy you mentioned at Denny's PearlRidge is the same guy who panhandles at Vineyard/Liliha too. He has the nerve to alternate days. His own schedule. Yes. He doesn't limp. He can run very fast!!! Especially, when he wants his drugs.:mad:

Hmmm...I think it's time to make a formal complaint to our neighborhood boards and HPD. It is then that we can get rid of scum bags like these. No sense complaining and not do nuttin.

Auntie Lynn

[Hellbent]

I had a customer who is a police officer and he said they cant really do anything. Should we jail them and give them free food? I'd like to know a solution, as I asked this in another thread - theres more and more of them out nowadays. I heard they make alot of money panhandling. Most just look sad. I work too hard for my money to give it away, most look capable of working. Ive seen that big guy with the limp; I think he could bench press more then me. Ive also seen him at Kapolei, I think hes from that side. LOL he probably gets in a benz after a 'hard day of work'.
Itll take an amputee or a bedraggled mom with 2 'kids' before I even think of pulling out any cash. I'd give away food if I saw one that actually deserve it tho, nix the drug/alcohol/hooker money.

[1stwahine]

It would be great if the Media would Edumacate the Public and Warn about these Panhandlers we've been discussing on HT!;)

Auntie Lynn

[Palolo Joe]

Yess folks, you NEED a rental agreement or electric bill along with the Birth certificate and other certified legal documents in order to get I.D.

I just got a state ID last year. Had to stand in line forever in that building across from Iolani Palace.

Did NOT need a rental agreement or an electric bill, however. Copy of my birth certificate and a social security card, plus the necessary form, was all I needed.

That, and cash to pay for the privelege of getting a new piece of plastic to carry around.

[Samurai123]

Just some information on our homeless population:

1. For the most part our homeless population is primarily made up of life time or long time Hawaii residents. The last comprehensive study of the homeless population was done in 2003 by SMS Research under contract with the City and State. That study found that 49.5% of the homeless population was lifetime Hawaii residents. Another 17.7% were long time residents (lived in Hawaii for more than 20 years), and another 16.8 % have lived in Hawaii for more than 5 years. Collectively you have about 67% of the homeless population being long time residents and if you add in the people who have lived here for more than 5 years the percentage rises to 84 percent. So basically recent arrivals (those living here less than 5 years) make up a small percentage of the homeless population, and in fact only 3.3% of the homeless population lived here less than a year. In summary, the homeless issue is really a local issue, and the majority of people who are homeless have lived in Hawaii for a long period of time, not mainland transplants. BTW the vast majority (87.5%) are U.S. citizens.

2. The myth of mainland cities sending their homeless to Hawaii is for the most part a myth. Does it happen, yes but not as often as you think, and it happens most often when the homeless person on the mainland has family or friends in Hawaii who will take them in. Emergency shelters like the Institute for Human Services have stated over and over again that other cities are dumping homeless in Hawaii. What does happen on the mainland is the one way bus ticket out of town. Cities in warm weather climates like Phoenix, Tucson, and even Albuquerque frequently complain of getting transplanted homeless from places like Boulder, Denver, Salt Lake City and the like. If you want to get someone out of town, it is probably cheaper to get them on Greyhound rather than and airline. By the way, some of our homeless agencies also provide the homeless with one way tickets out of town, but mostly if the person has a place to stay once he/she arrives. BTW, let’s get a grip here. Do you think that agencies like IHS actually put out an S.O.S. to send more homeless to Hawaii? Frankly IHS has been operating pretty much at capacity since its inception. As the ONLY emergency shelter in urban Honolulu there is no shortage of clientele, as a matter of act, they have had to put limits on how long people can stay there because demand is so overwhelming.

3. Sadly, the number of homeless persons in Hawaii is rising. The latest homeless count was conducted on January 28, 2007, it showed a total of 3,750 homeless on Oahu, a 28.2 percent increase over the last count in 2005 that showed 2,925 homeless on Oahu. The 2007 study, which will be released shortly also showed a “migration” of the homeless population, to places like the Waianae Coast, North Shore, and other outlying areas, while to percentage of the homeless population residing in urban Honolulu declined. On interpretation of this is that when the City closed Ala Moana Park and began to sweep other places like Kapiolani Park and Diamond Head, it did not “solve” the homeless problem, it just moved it to other locations. Note: counts like the ones done in 2007 and 2005 are just that, body counts. The 2003 study was the last one that provided detailed demographic data on the homeless population.

4. The homeless mentally ill who are among the most visible of the homeless population are also the most difficult to treat. Studies have shown that most of them are unaware of their condition, and are resistant to treatment and assistance. They also are the most represented in the “chronically homeless” population. The chronically homeless population includes individuals who have been continuously homeless over a year or have had four episodes of homelessness over the past three years (a federal definition). Treating these guys is not as simple as yelling at them to take their meds. Sometimes it takes years of outreach before they will accept help. Many homeless mentally ill are also substance abusers who use drugs to mask and cope with the symptoms of their psychosis have been victimized on the streets, and have compounding medical problems such as hepatitis, HIV/AIDS, and opens sores, infections, dental problems and the like. They are by far the hardest to treat, its not a liberal thing or a conservative thing, its hard to treat someone who is genuinely afraid of strangers, who may view medications as poison, and are unaware that there is anything wrong with them.

5. The majority of sheltered and unsheltered homeless persons are not receiving government benefits. Most of the folks who are receiving benefits like Section 8 rental assistance, welfare and the like can for the most part maintain their housing. Most homeless receive subsistence goods like food from charitable organizations, a surprising number of homeless, particularly homeless families living on the Waianae Coast, have adults who hold regular employment. Case managers and outreach workers do try and sign-up the homeless for benefits, but many government benefits are not readily available. The wait for Section 8 rental assistance is close to 7 years now.

Housing is a major challenge in Hawaii and a significant factor in our increasing homeless population. Rents here have increased on average by 5 to 7 percent annually, but wages have not kept up (about 3% annually). Our rental housing vacancy rate is in the 3% range but it has increased slightly which is a sign that more rental housing is available and that should moderate rental rate increases. We can have a whole long discussion on the housing market, but basically what is happening is that rising housing costs and limited supply are continuing to push even working families into the ranks of the homeless. Unfortunately, the trend will probably continue until the next economic downturn in the state economy which tends to moderate housing prices and demand.

[1stwahine]

J2. The myth of mainland cities sending their homeless to Hawaii is for the most part a myth. Does it happen, yes but not as often as you think, and it happens most often when the homeless person on the mainland has family or friends in Hawaii who will take them in.

I invite YOU to come to Kaukau Wagon on any Saturday and tell me it's part of a myth! I see the Homeless and the Hungry face to face and I know it's not a Myth. I ask where they come from and they tell me.:mad: Many are afflicted with Mental Illness and are Dual Diagnosed. Yes...they came to IHS.

Auntie Lynn

btw: What you wrote is old news...we know all dat!
Ohhh..excuse. It's your Term paper!!

[LocoBoy]

Then there the regulars that stand outside the 7-11's and beg for money. Rather than give them money I tell them I'll buy them something to eat and maybe half the time they turn that down!!?? Just goes to show that some do just want the money for you guessed it....booze or dope.

[1stwahine]

Then there the regulars that stand outside the 7-11's and beg for money. Rather than give them money I tell them I'll buy them something to eat and maybe half the time they turn that down!!?? Just goes to show that some do just want the money for you guessed it....booze or dope.

As stated in Post #22. There are various "Categories" of the Homeless and the Hungry.

"Those like the ones you posted are the will nuts! Those who WILL NOT do nuttin to make their LIFE betta. People who take advantage of the system and anything they can. They are the scum of the scum. Why should they work when they have discovered a way to live day to day from Government Programs and People's pity."

The worse of them are Drug Addicts and Alcoholics. They know how to manipulate, steal, anything to get something foa FREE!!

But why should a bunch of bad apples spoil it for those who desperately need assistance? Why should Society look down upon those who truly need HELP? No matter what category a person is in, they are human. We can not let our hearts be hardened. I have a hard time dealing with it too. However, I put it aside because each time I go to KauKau Wagon, I face it head on. I'm not there to judge...I'm there to feed. And so my heart and mind is cleared of all prejudice...until the next Saturday.:o

Auntie Lynn

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w161/1stwahine2/pk027.jpg