Another reason to eat locally grown food

[Miulang]

Was the tainted wheat gluten from China that affected so many of our pets just the tip of the iceberg? When we eat food from cans, do we really know where all the ingredients came from (even if the origin of the product itself may be from the US)?

The answer may be a resounding NO, if this story (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18078824/)is to be believed. China, which now exports more goods than the US, has a long history of adulterating food produced there with chemicals and practices that might be banned elsewhere in the world. With lax inspection at the Chinese end and insufficient controls at our end of the chain, the likelihood of human-based poisoning from Chinese-imported food products is fairly high.

Even reading food labels may no longer be sufficient, because as with cars, even if the final product is labelled American, some of its components may have been procured elsewhere.

So about the only way you are guaranteed to know what is going in your mouth is to purchase the raw ingredients from a reputable local source and prepare it yourself.:(

Miulang

[Hellbent]

sounds like time for the 100 mile diet? (http://100milediet.org/category/about/)

also HW article on it locally (http://honoluluweekly.com/cover/story-continued/2006/04/no-shoyu-no-milk-no-bread-no-rice-2/)

[tikiyaki]

Yikes. While I knew that most everything is manufarctured over in China, I didn't realize that FOOD PRODUCTS was part of that. That's scary, because China is like the wild west over there. Lax laws, low quality control, very little business scruples, and health codes ?... Pulleeze.

Having a widget like an MP3 player, a lamp, or the promotional drink coasters for my new Tikiyaki Orchestra CD (http://www.tikiyakiorchestra.com) made over there is one thing, FOOD is another entirely. That's scary. In a country where some unthinkable things are edible, this could be dangerous.

Wow, that's cause for alarm.

[Hellbent]

can you give exaples of what is an unthinkable edible thing? i think every culture has something like that. haggis. natto. rocky mountain oysters.

i could probably agree with the other stuff tho.

[Pomai]

Having a widget like an MP3 player, a lamp, or the promotional drink coasters for my new Tikiyaki Orchestra CD (http://www.tikiyakiorchestra.com) made over there is one thing, FOOD is another entirely. That's scary.Nice plug Tiki! On that note, I'm in line to BUY a copy of your T.O. CD when it's released. Sounds nice. ;)

The only problem with locally-grown or made anything is it's often more expensive than the competition due to high overhead (read real estate), processing, manufacturing and distribution limitations and/or general higher cost of doing business in the islands. On the plus side, most Hawaii products have excellent quality standards, which, for the most part, justifies the higher prices.

I like the line in the movie Top Gun when the Commander tells "Mav" and "Goose" that if they keep messin' around, they'll be "flying rubber dog sh#t outta' Hong Kong". :D

[tutusue]

Nice plug Tiki! On that note, I'm in line to BUY a copy of your T.O. CD when it's released. Sounds nice. ;)[...]
Oooh...me too...me too!!! Love it. It's perfect for my (eventual) Little Grass Shack! Love the graphics on the site, too!

Back on topic...think I'll take the local farmer's markets a bit more seriously! :eek:

[joshuatree]

Does anyone here think the food sold here in Hawaii is overpriced to the point of gouging? I know there's the extra cost of shipping but when you see some of the prices for food in other states; and I'm talking about the same mass produced, non-organic, pesticide laced, genetically modified food; I wonder if stores use the whole "everything has to be shipped in" as a huge excuse for the prices they charge.

[tikiyaki]

Sorry for the shameless plug guys :rolleyes:
Didn't mean to derail the thread.

Anyway, I really hope this doesn't start affecting food products we use everyday. There are supposedly a reported 39,000 cases of dogs being affected by the Menu Foods issue from a month ago. That's scary.

[CranBeree]

shipping/freight charges is not an excuse...it is freekin expensive to ship stuff here and therefore passed on to the consumers.

[joshuatree]

shipping/freight charges is not an excuse...it is freekin expensive to ship stuff here and therefore passed on to the consumers.

It's expensive but is it that much where food prices is like double or maybe even triple of what you find on CONUS? I've seen $0.39/lb sunkist oranges, $0.20 for a bunch of green onions, $0.69 for 5 cloves of garlic, etc. I don't think you can remotely find those prices in Hawaii. And those aren't clearance items either. Maybe we just gotta work at getting rid of the Jones Act? No other state gets more affected by the Jones Act than Hawaii. Every other state, including Alaska, has a land route option.

[CranBeree]

It's expensive but is it that much where food prices is like double or maybe even triple of what you find on CONUS? I've seen $0.39/lb sunkist oranges, $0.20 for a bunch of green onions, $0.69 for 5 cloves of garlic, etc. I don't think you can remotely find those prices in Hawaii. And those aren't clearance items either. Maybe we just gotta work at getting rid of the Jones Act? No other state gets more affected by the Jones Act than Hawaii. Every other state, including Alaska, has a land route option.


think of it as ...when a company brings a product in and sells it to you, they have to mark it up to make some profit, then add on the shipping/freight charges... well there went the prices. do you know that sharper image marks up by 400% to cover costs, sales rental etc etc...shoe stores mark up by a certain percentage also..i forget its been so long since its been since over 10 years that i've seen the account..i was interning at a shoe store in Ala Moana doing accounts payable...a shoe at cost was between $4-5 and was retailed for $49.99.

[Miulang]

It's expensive but is it that much where food prices is like double or maybe even triple of what you find on CONUS? I've seen $0.39/lb sunkist oranges, $0.20 for a bunch of green onions, $0.69 for 5 cloves of garlic, etc. I don't think you can remotely find those prices in Hawaii. And those aren't clearance items either. Maybe we just gotta work at getting rid of the Jones Act? No other state gets more affected by the Jones Act than Hawaii. Every other state, including Alaska, has a land route option.
Getting rid of the Jones Act would help bring prices down and possibly create a "lifeline" for Hawai'i in times of shipping strikes on the West Coast. But it still wouldn't address the quality control issues with imports from Asia...I can tolerate defects in manufactured goods, but NOT tainted food!:eek: And if we think Hawai'i has issues with invasive species now, can you imagine what things would be like if ships, harboring alien pests, were allowed to dock directly at ports in Hawai'i? Bugs from some parts of Asia would absolutely love the climate in Hawai'i.

Miulang

P.S. Getting rid of the Jones Act might also help the people seeking sovereignty further their case for independence if there was less reliance on CONUS for critical goods.

[scrivener]

I wonder if stores use the whole "everything has to be shipped in" as a huge excuse for the prices they charge.
Of course that's part of it, but when costs are higher for everything from labor to taxes to property, even without shipping expenses, the retail prices will be higher. Our minimum wage is two dollars per hour higher than the Federal minimum wage; I know I don't have to tell you how much more it costs to own land; fuel costs, even for strictly in-state transportation and energy, are going to boost expenses more than they would where fuel is cheaper (which is just about everywhere on the mainland).

It's just what it costs to live here.

[joshuatree]

think of it as ...when a company brings a product in and sells it to you, they have to mark it up to make some profit, then add on the shipping/freight charges... well there went the prices. do you know that sharper image marks up by 400% to cover costs, sales rental etc etc...shoe stores mark up by a certain percentage also..i forget its been so long since its been since over 10 years that i've seen the account..i was interning at a shoe store in Ala Moana doing accounts payable...a shoe at cost was between $4-5 and was retailed for $49.99.

But in your example, you are comparing apples to oranges. Food are items of necessity. Shoes and Sharper Image are items of luxury.

Aside from marking up for the extra shipping charge, I don't see why there needs to be a major markup for profit. The prices I quoted for food on CONUS are prices those stores are making a profit on.

[CranBeree]

But in your example, you are comparing apples to oranges. Food are items of necessity. Shoes and Sharper Image are items of luxury.

Aside from marking up for the extra shipping charge, I don't see why there needs to be a major markup for profit. The prices I quoted for food on CONUS are prices those stores are making a profit on.

uhmm..that whole concept would apply to food to. trust me i know these things. but then again you could always try your hand at being buyer for a distributor.

[joshuatree]

Getting rid of the Jones Act would help bring prices down and possibly create a "lifeline" for Hawai'i in times of shipping strikes on the West Coast. But it still wouldn't address the quality control issues with imports from Asia...I can tolerate defects in manufactured goods, but NOT tainted food!:eek: And if we think Hawai'i has issues with invasive species now, can you imagine what things would be like if ships, harboring alien pests, were allowed to dock directly at ports in Hawai'i? Bugs from some parts of Asia would absolutely love the climate in Hawai'i.

Miulang

P.S. Getting rid of the Jones Act might also help the people seeking sovereignty further their case for independence if there was less reliance on CONUS for critical goods.

You are right about food quality control. That's another issue, something I believe the Jones Act has zero power in addressing. And before people get all hyped up that tainted food only comes from Asia, remember the tainted salads coming from California a few months back? It can happen from any source.

As for invasive species from foreign ships, it's not just the ships, it's the containers. And that already happens as containers cross borders without any hindrance in today's world. Btw, where are all the environmental groups when it comes to Matson's China - Long Beach Express route? They actually send a container ship from Ningbo/Shanghai to Long Beach, then it swings back down to Hawaii, then to Guam, then back to China. You've already got your invasive species route happening as we speak. But everyone got on the bandwagon with pitch forks and torches when it came to the HSF? :rolleyes:

http://matson.com/china/index.html

[Miulang]

But in your example, you are comparing apples to oranges. Food are items of necessity. Shoes and Sharper Image are items of luxury.

Aside from marking up for the extra shipping charge, I don't see why there needs to be a major markup for profit. The prices I quoted for food on CONUS are prices those stores are making a profit on.
I don't know if this is true in Hawai'i, but the typical operating margin of most supermarkets is anywhere from 1-3% (except for Whole Foods possibly), which isn't very much, when you look at the markups of nonessential goods at places like Sharper Image. So if that margin also holds true for Hawai'i, then the grocery stores are not the ones who are ripping you off. More than likely, the middlemen---the folks who get your food to you---are the ones who are making the most profit. Eventually, unless something is done, pretty soon your choices of where you buy your food might be limited to the big boxes---the Safeways, Costcos and WalMarts---who can buy in huge quantities. You might not have your Times or Star Markets forever, unless you continue to show loyalty to them now.

One way your food costs are reduced is that essential food is not taxed when you buy it. I can't remember if when I went to Sack 'n Save the other week whether or not I paid a sales tax on the half gallon of Haleakala Dairy milk and loaf of Home Maid Bakery bread I bought, though.

Up here, there is no tax on most food except deli and softdrinks and candy. Other consumables like toilet paper are taxed.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Of course that's part of it, but when costs are higher for everything from labor to taxes to property, even without shipping expenses, the retail prices will be higher. Our minimum wage is two dollars per hour higher than the Federal minimum wage; I know I don't have to tell you how much more it costs to own land; fuel costs, even for strictly in-state transportation and energy, are going to boost expenses more than they would where fuel is cheaper (which is just about everywhere on the mainland).

It's just what it costs to live here.

I'm actually not buying those arguments. I am not denying doing business in Hawaii is expensive but I do believe there is a lot of price gouging based on the ingrain presumption that it's the extra shipping costs, high cost of labor, and cost of real estate.

The food prices I listed as examples from CONUS were obtained from grocery stores in Southern California. Minimum wage in Hawaii is $7.25 an hour. Cali's is $7.50. Cost of land? Cali's is right up there with Hawaii. Gas? Average price of 87 octane regular for Hawaii this week is $3.20. For Cali, $3.26. So the only other variable is shipping. I find it hard to believe shipping translates to a price increase of two to three times. Btw, the example of 5 cloves of garlic, those were garlic imported from China, a shipping distance much further for Cali than for Hawaii so you see why I question the food prices?

[CranBeree]

ok..here is a little known deal or maybe you guys do know...

Western Family, Times, Best Yet (i forget the rest of the private labels)

those are all under Meadow Gold.... they just change the boxes.

if your milk doesn't say Island Fresh, then it's from California. shipped over in those huge tubular things...i forget what tehyre called exactly..if you know what im talking about remind me...if you do know and you see those things on the road and it says Agmark..it contains orange juice...blah blah blah... just a little trivia for your day! :cool:

[joshuatree]

uhmm..that whole concept would apply to food to. trust me i know these things. but then again you could always try your hand at being buyer for a distributor.

No it wouldn't. Based on your belief that shipping costs would make food two to three times the cost of food on CONUS, why isn't that pair of $49.99 shoes not $149.99 in Hawaii because of the shipping? :D

Being a buyer for a distributor would still mean you gotta work under their excessively greedy MOs so what's changed? All you will learn is that they want excessively fat profit margins, again, not as big of an issue with luxury items vs items you need to live, food.

[CranBeree]

No it wouldn't. Based on your belief that shipping costs would make food two to three times the cost of food on CONUS, why isn't that pair of $49.99 shoes not $149.99 in Hawaii because of the shipping? :D

Being a buyer for a distributor would still mean you gotta work under their excessively greedy MOs so what's changed? All you will learn is that they want excessively fat profit margins, again, not as big of an issue with luxury items vs items you need to live, food.

i didnt say only the shipping/freight..i said ..go read what i wrote... i think you missed about the part about GP and rent and all that stuff. and the shoe cost was actually between $4-5. Retailed at $49.99

p.s. produce/meat/fish etc. needs to get to Hawaii within 24 hours..and also for all items requriing consumption also must go through customs clearance /FDA etc.

[joshuatree]

i didnt say only the shipping/freight..i said ..go read what i wrote... i think you missed about the part about GP and rent and all that stuff. and the shoe cost was actually between $4-5. Retailed at $49.99

I did read what you wrote but I already stated once that profit on items of luxury can't be compared on par with items of necessity. Also, I also already stated that the food prices I quoted for CONUS is already at profitable prices so your statement of needing to tack on more to price of food in Hawaii for profit is either 1) irrelevant because the CONUS prices I started with are already market prices which includes profit or 2) the sellers in Hawaii are excessively gouging which leads back to my original post.

I replied to another poster comparing costs in Hawaii with Cali. They are practically eye to eye with the only exception of shipping.

[CranBeree]

joshuatree: i seriously hope you don't like sashimi or any type of fish for that matter. you would die knowing what the markup is.. :eek: :D

I did read what you wrote but I already stated once that profit on items of luxury can't be compared on par with items of necessity. Also, I also already stated that the food prices I quoted for CONUS is already at profitable prices so your statement of needing to tack on more to price of food in Hawaii for profit is either 1) irrelevant because the CONUS prices I started with are already market prices which includes profit or 2) the sellers in Hawaii are excessively gouging which leads back to my original post.

I replied to another poster comparing costs in Hawaii with Cali. They are practically eye to eye with the only exception of shipping.

ok...any food item....has to make GP (GP from 35% and up) ...so yes you are right about the high prices..but then in turn thats' how companies make money.

you could also go swap meet or farmer's market if you dont want to pay that right? your choice.

did you read the part about food items having to be here within 24 hours etc?

[joshuatree]

joshuatree: i seriously hope you don't like sashimi or any type of fish for that matter. you would die knowing what the markup is.. :eek: :D

ok...any food item....has to make GP (GP from 35% and up) ...so yes you are right about the high prices..but then in turn thats' how companies make money.

you could also go swap meet or farmer's market if you dont want to pay that right? your choice.

did you read the part about food items having to be here within 24 hours etc?

Oh I have my moments when I crave for sashimi but I don't know why you think I have no clue to product markups. I don't dispute with you that a seller will try to sell a product at the highest possible price. But sashimi is considered a luxury item. I can't recall the last time the UN providing sashimi to the masses in a hunger crisis. Besides, the prices for sashimi in Hawaii and on CONUS ain't that far apart. Sashimi is in short supply with overfishing and there's a world demand that dictates the pricing very closely.

My whole point in this discussion is that people in Hawaii are practically being gouged on basic food items because the excuse has been, shipping costs. Yes, shipping costs should indeed make the food prices a bit more than CONUS but not at 100% or 200% of prices on CONUS. Someone in the Hawaii food chain supply is clearly making bank. And people of Hawaii are willing to accept it because we're all so preconditioned with the shipping explanation.

Regarding certain food items having be here within 24 hours. That's a lot of exaggeration given today's refrigerated containers. Unless you are referring to live fish, or of similar nature, there is no need to have items here within 24 hours. Have you ever bought a 5 lb box of Tyson frozen chicken drums and wings? Or how about a 5 lb box of frozen shrimp from the Philippines or Vietnam? None of those items are 24 hours, especially when you look at the box timestamps and those items were processed like 3 months prior.

I do try to find alternate avenues like farmers markets, etc. Chinatown would probably be the easiest bet in finding cheaper food.

As for any food item has to make profit from 35% and up. Isn't that just greed? Where is it written in stone? Costco's mantra is to never make more than 15% profit off an item. There's profit and then there's greedy profit.

[CranBeree]

Oh I have my moments when I crave for sashimi but I don't know why you think I have no clue to product markups. I don't dispute with you that a seller will try to sell a product at the highest possible price. But sashimi is considered a luxury item. I can't recall the last time the UN providing sashimi to the masses in a hunger crisis. Besides, the prices for sashimi in Hawaii and on CONUS ain't that far apart. Sashimi is in short supply with overfishing and there's a world demand that dictates the pricing very closely.

My whole point in this discussion is that people in Hawaii are practically being gouged on basic food items because the excuse has been, shipping costs. Yes, shipping costs should indeed make the food prices a bit more than CONUS but not at 100% or 200% of prices on CONUS. Someone in the Hawaii food chain supply is clearly making bank. And people of Hawaii are willing to accept it because we're all so preconditioned with the shipping explanation.

Regarding certain food items having be here within 24 hours. That's a lot of exaggeration given today's refrigerated containers. Unless you are referring to live fish, or of similar nature, there is no need to have items here within 24 hours. Have you ever bought a 5 lb box of Tyson frozen chicken drums and wings? Or how about a 5 lb box of frozen shrimp from the Philippines or Vietnam? None of those items are 24 hours, especially when you look at the box timestamps and those items were processed like 3 months prior.

I do try to find alternate avenues like farmers markets, etc. Chinatown would probably be the easiest bet in finding cheaper food.

As for any food item has to make profit from 35% and up. Isn't that just greed? Where is it written in stone? Costco's mantra is to never make more than 15% profit off an item. There's profit and then there's greedy profit.


i will edit to say 48 instead of 24 hrs...airlines are have a minimum requirement of 48 yhrs..(call the airlines if you so desire)

as for the fish comment, forget it, it was meant to be a joke.

as for the 35% and up, no its not written in stone but then again it isn't your company.

i think if you really want to choose to understand the situation, then you would have to work in the industry itself.

k.....off to enjoy the rest of my Friday.
Cheers!

[Miulang]

Another way to connect with the food you eat (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070415/BUSINESS11/704150335/1071). And there's a local Hawai'i chapter, too.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Only a little more than 1% of the food imported (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070422/BUSINESS09/704220342/1080/BUSINESS) into this country is inspected by the FDA, which means a little less than 99% is slipping through, potentially causing harm to us. The only time the FDA will really scrutinize any product is AFTER reports have surfaced about poisoning or illness or the exporting country is known to have had problems in the past.

Last month alone, FDA detained nearly 850 shipments of grains, fish, vegetables, nuts, spice, oils and other imported foods for issues ranging from filth to unsafe food coloring to contamination with pesticides to salmonella.

And that's with just 1.3 percent of the imports inspected. The other 98.7 percent? It's not inspected, much less detained, and goes to feed the nation's growing appetite for imported foods.

Each year, the average American eats about 260 pounds of imported foods, including processed, ready-to-eat products and single ingredients. Imports account for about 13 percent of the annual diet.

"Never before in history have we had the sort of system that we have now, meaning a globalization of the food supply," said Robert Brackett, director of the FDA's Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition.

FDA inspections focus on foods known to be at risk for contamination, including fish, shellfish, fruit and vegetables. Food from countries or producers previously shown to be problematic also are flagged for a closer look.

Consider this list of Chinese products detained by the FDA just in the last month: frozen catfish tainted with illegal veterinary drugs, fresh ginger polluted with pesticides, melon seeds contaminated with a cancer-causing toxin and filthy dried dates.


Miulang

[greentara]

Yikes. While I knew that most everything is manufarctured over in China, I didn't realize that FOOD PRODUCTS was part of that. That's scary, because China is like the wild west over there. Lax laws, low quality control, very little business scruples, and health codes ?... Pulleeze.

Having a widget like an MP3 player, a lamp, or the promotional drink coasters for my new Tikiyaki Orchestra CD (http://www.tikiyakiorchestra.com) made over there is one thing, FOOD is another entirely. That's scary. In a country where some unthinkable things are edible, this could be dangerous.

Wow, that's cause for alarm.


Love the music... :cool:

When I'm visiting Kaua'i I live on Pokie, (sp?) from the Korean deli, what I buy at the farmers market and what I get from the trees on the land I live on ~ oranges, papayas, bananas, and other citrus fruits. Coffee is no more expensive than SF the only thing that is a bit pricy is EVO, I will be bringing large bottles back when I visit SF. Dairy is expensive but I don’t eat dairy so it’s no big deal. I have a discount card for Foodmart and prices there are not bad. If you eat a lot of processed food I guess it could be expensive ~ it won’t be a problem to eat locally when I’m living there.

[Miulang]

The FDA is finally waking up to the fact that if pet food, which is supposed to be highly regulated, can be contaminated by chemicals, then perhaps they also need to start testing human food products more diligently. They are especially concerned about imports from China (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/24/AR2007042402539.html?hpid=topnews), as well they should be.

In this age of globalization of the food supply, and with China exporting so much of it to this country, you never know whether that processed food product you're eating---that was made in the US---might contain some adulturated ingredients that were used by a company to decrease its manufacturing costs.

By value, China is the world's No. 1 exporter of fruits and vegetables, and a major exporter of other food and food products, which vary widely, from apple juice to sausage casings and garlic. China's agricultural exports to the United States surged to $2.26 billion last year, according to U.S. figures -- more than 20 times the $133 million of 1980.

China has been especially poor at meeting international standards. The United States subjects only a small fraction of its food imports to close inspection, but each month rejects about 200 shipments from China, mostly because of concerns about pesticides and antibiotics and about misleading labeling. In February, border inspectors for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration blocked peas tainted by pesticides, dried white plums containing banned additives, pepper contaminated with salmonella and frozen crawfish that were filthy.

Since 2000, some countries have temporarily banned whole categories of Chinese imports. The European Union stopped shipments of shrimp because of banned antibiotics. Japan blocked tea and spinach, citing excessive antibiotic residue. And South Korea banned fermented cabbage after finding parasites in some shipments.

As globalization of the food supply progresses, "the food gets more anonymous and gradually you get into a situation where you don't know where exactly it came from and you get more vulnerable to poor quality," said Michiel Keyzer, director of the Centre for World Food Studies at Vrije University in Amsterdam, who researches China's exports to the European Union.




Miulang

[Miulang]

It's been a good news/bad news (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070507/NEWS01/705070359) kinda day...
Hawai'i's production of fresh fruits and vegetables has roughly doubled since the 1960s as farms have shifted away from plantation crops to staples such as tomatoes, bananas, cabbage and sweet potatoes.

But the amount of imported fresh produce has more than tripled in the same period.

The result is a tipping of the import vs. local balance in the direction of imports.

In 1960, Hawai'i farmers provided half of the vegetables eaten in the Islands. By 2005 they were only growing one-third of what was consumed, according to Hawai'i Department of Agriculture figures. The local market share of fresh fruit has fared slightly better, falling from 57 percent in 1960 to 42 percent in 2004, in the most recent data.

The drop in market share for local producers comes as farmers grapple with an array of challenges including urban encroachment, high land costs, stiffer environmental regulations and competition from growers worldwide.

"It's tough competing with the Mainland because land costs, water costs, labor costs are all higher," said Milton Agader, co-owner of Twin Bridge Farms in Waialua. "Not only do you have to grow a good product, but you've got to be really good at marketing."

...In the past 45 years, Hawai'i's agriculture sector has undergone a profound shift away from large single-crop plantations to so-called "diversified" crops, which include everything except sugar cane and pineapple.

Hawai'i's farm acreage has fallen from 2.6 million acres in 1960 to 1.3 million acres in 2004 in large part because of the closing of sugar cane and pineapple plantations. Operations such as Twin Bridge farms have helped keep plantation lands in agriculture by growing niche crops such as asparagus.

The situation is more severe for meat, milk and egg producers. Hawai'i has suffered a steep decline in livestock operations. Since 1999, 26 commercial livestock operations in Hawai'i have shut down — a 41 percent drop, according to a survey conducted last year by the University of Hawai'i College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources. During that period, the state's poultry sector has been nearly wiped out while the number of milk, egg and pork producers has fallen sharply in part because of rising feed and transportation costs and a lack of available long-term leases on private-sector agricultural lands.

After a decade of mostly declining sales during the 1990s, agriculture overall is on steady footing, thanks to the growth of specialized crops such as coffee, papaya, macadamia nuts and microalgae.


Miulang

[Noelani Josselin]

:p It's so wonderful to have a small garden. Recent months my children and I have been harvesting the fruits of our labor, mangos, papayas, lili koi, bananas, eggplants, tomatoes, bell peppers, green onions, string beans, Taro and sweet potatoes. :D
It's alot of work, but it quality time spent with the Ohana in the garden, in the kitchen and at the table!
and it saves us Money!
It is also great to “mahele” hookupus or gifts from our garden to neighbors who fish and hunt. It is reassuring to know that my Ohana’s food source is of the highest quality and is not tainted! (hey, OK , may be not the Ramen noodles...) It is also important to remember to Malama or take care of our “Ahu puaa” and our “Kai”/ (Land-Community and the Sea) and it will take care of us!

As for those franchise stores who have a "box" in every local town, these "boxes" make so much "trash" accesible from China or where ever its coming from! I prefer to shop at Foodland,Big Save, Kojima's, Sueok'as...Its great to see these local mom and pop stores banning together to compete against the franchise.

Fact is; I have been "conditioned" to visit these boxes at least every month for essentials"

Aloha,:cool:

Noelani Josselin
Wailua Kauai Hawaii

i will edit to say 48 instead of 24 hrs...airlines are have a minimum requirement of 48 yhrs..(call the airlines if you so desire)

as for the fish comment, forget it, it was meant to be a joke.

as for the 35% and up, no its not written in stone but then again it isn't your company.

i think if you really want to choose to understand the situation, then you would have to work in the industry itself.

k.....off to enjoy the rest of my Friday.
Cheers!

[tutusue]

[...]I prefer to shop at Foodland,Big Save, Kojima's, Sueok'as...Its great to see these local mom and pop stores banning together to compete against the franchise.[...]
And, let's not forget Tamura's...on Oahu!!!

[Karen]

Oh, that garden listed above sounds wonderful!

We have avocadoes, tangerines, banana, Lychee, a few potatoes and more herbs than I can name. I wish I were more of a gardener, am glad hubby's getting into it a bit more but for now I'll get to a community market when I can.

I'd dig having fresh tomatoes and bell peppers from my own yard. Oh, cucumbers, too. Do they also grow well here?

[MixedPlateBroker]

I recommend the produce stand on the corner of Waialae and 9th Avenue. Good daily supplement to the weekly trips to Chinatown. Screaming bargains on fresh shiitake, basil and papaya (four varieties). And check out Kalihi for animal protein. There's a meat market on almost every block. Safeway's for canned goods and tp. :p

[kthor]

China, which now exports more goods than the US, has a long history of adulterating food produced there with chemicals and practices that might be banned elsewhere in the world. With lax inspection at the Chinese end and insufficient controls at our end of the chain, the likelihood of human-based poisoning from Chinese-imported food products is fairly high.

Miulang


you know my aunt had a friend who come back from a trip in China sometime this year (2007), before leaving China she develop pain in the stomach and had diarrhea all the way when she got back home in CA. after several days she went to the hospital and they found some sort of worms in her system that no medical drugs and surgery can remove (not sure what type of worms)..aun't friend is now in Coma believe just happened this week due to the worms in her system ..

I don't think i'll head to china until the goverment can address the tons of problems they have..with more than 1.4 trillion dollars in reserve, you would think they'll do more to address this type of problems..

[Miulang]

And if the FDA has its way, food safety in imported food is going to get even worse for us here in this country. The government agency would like to close 7 of the 13 labs (http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/0718biz-foodsafety0718.html)it operates around the country! Why? They claim it's to "save money" and "become more efficient".:eek:

One way to protect yourself is to read labels more closely. There are new labelling laws that are going into effect that will tell you where the food is from. The only unfortunate thing is manufactured products (like packaged, canned or frozen prepared food items) won't have to list the countries of origin of their component parts. So buy "whole foods" and prepare meals yourself rather than buying premade food. That way you will always know what is going into the food you're putting into your body.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

I'm so glad the Big Island is blessed with many farmer's markets where you can get three papaya or avacado for a buck. And they're all fresh.

[glossyp]

I've stopped purchasing any item that will go on or in our bodies that is labeled "Made in China". What is amazing to me is how much of what is in our markets is from China. We'll always purchased as much locally grown produce as we can and find that the large Marukai on Dillingham has a really impressive selection of local produce at excellent prices.

[Miulang]

I've stopped purchasing any item that will go on or in our bodies that is labeled "Made in China". What is amazing to me is how much of what is in our markets is from China. We'll always purchased as much locally grown produce as we can and find that the large Marukai on Dillingham has a really impressive selection of local produce at excellent prices.
That's an excellent start, but that still won't protect you completely if you buy anything that's manufactured in the US from component parts/ingredients that might have come from outside the country. The pet food disaster is one example: food was made in this country and Canada, but the tainted gluten was imported from China. The pet food labels wouldn't have China anywhere on them.

Also, you're lucky you live in Hawai'i and can get fresh tuna, mahimahi and swordfish. Stay away from the frozen stuff (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/17/health/main3066755.shtml?source=RSSattr=Health_3066755)be cause it might have come from China and could contain higher levels of mercury than is safe. Frozen shrimp from Asia could contain antibiotics or salmonella.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Stay away from the frozen stuff because it might have come from China and could contain higher levels of mercury than is safe.

Good thing the labels in the local supermarkets where I shop tell me where the frozen fish is from.

Not like you would know, from thousands of miles away in Washington.

Again, stop playing Chicken Little. It's annoying.

[LikaNui]

:rolleyes: That's an excellent start, but that still won't protect you completely if you buy anything that's manufactured in the US from component parts/ingredients that might have come from outside the country. Or it just as easily might not have. :rolleyes:

Stay away from the frozen stuff because it might have come from China Or, it might not have.

and could contain higher levels of mercury than is safe. Or, could not.

Frozen shrimp from Asia could contain antibiotics or salmonella. Or, you know... could not.

Conjecture. Projection. Ifs, ands, maybes. Speculation.
Be afraid, people. BE VERY AFRAID.
The sky might be falling.

[kthor]

the only thing is, many of the fresh fish, lobster, crabs in hawaii's supermarket aren't grown locally. Many of those came from Chinese/Korean fish dealers in China/Korea. scary

:eek:

[Miulang]

Here are some interesting reasons (http://news.aol.com/story/_a/buying-american-its-not-in-the-bag/n20070711071209990116)why just reading a label may not completely tell the story about where a package of food came from:

Countries of origin always are labeled if they're high prestige - though not always clearly. Take olive oil. A side trip to the oil aisle shows a row of glowing yellow and light-green oils, many labeled "Imported from Italy." But a careful reading of the back label shows that while the bottles may have come from Italy, most of the oil inside comes from Spain, Greece and Tunisia, with some Italian oil thrown in....

The islands near the bakery are overflowing with fresh-baked bread, rolls and croissants. And while they were baked here - Lempert peeks through the door to point out the ovens and the rising racks - they weren't actually made here, a guess confirmed by one of the hair-netted employees wheeling out fresh loaves.

The dough "comes in either chilled or frozen, and it's baked off here," he says.

There are two clues to whether the market actually makes its own baked goods. "If you don't see mixers or flour on the floor, it wasn't made here," Lempert says.

That said, the ingredients are almost certain to be from the USA, simply because we grow a lot of wheat that becomes flour, as well as producing all our own milk and eggs, he says...

No chicken is imported, and given the size of the U.S. meat industry, you might think that everything but prosciutto comes from the USA. But a call to the American Meat Institute reveals that about 16% of beef is imported, much of that coming in as trimmings that go into ground beef.

"They come from all over the world. An American who eats a lot of hamburger will be eating imported beef," says Dave Ray of the American Meat Institute. But "these aren't steaks, cuts, chops and ribs," which would be American-raised.



Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

the only thing is, many of the fresh fish, lobster, crabs in hawaii's supermarket aren't grown locally. Many of those came from Chinese/Korean fish dealers in China/Korea. scary

You got any links to back up your BS?

Many? More like some. Ever get on a plane and actually spend some time here? Ever been to the fish auction?

Here are some interesting reasons why just reading a label may not completely tell the story about where a package of food came from:

Back to bloating your post count, I see. What does that link have to with locally-grown food?

[Miulang]

This has everything to do with what you guys eat. Most of your stuff is coming from somewhere else (http://www.alternative-hawaii.com/agriculture/index.htm). The majority of the food you consume is imported from somewhere else.

Contaminated frozen catfish, etc (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/05/AR2007070502240.html).

US food imports rarely inspected (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18132087/)

US bans fish imported from China (http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jun2007/2007-06-29-09.asp)

House Congressional panel on food safety report from 7/17/07 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070717/pl_afp/healthusfoodsafety_070717193721)

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

This has everything to do with what you guys eat. Most of your stuff is coming from somewhere else. The majority of the food you consume is imported from somewhere else.

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

Frozen catfish and imported canned goods from Asia. It COULD be an issue, but is it?

NOPE.

Keep stirring the pot, Chicken Little.

Why don't you worry about "your" stuff up there on the mainland. We don't need you opining from atop your high horse thousands of miles away.

[LikaNui]

The majority of the food you consume is imported from somewhere else. Oh... my... GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: Attention, citizens of Hawai`i nei -- Effective immediately, STOP EATING. I mean, COMPLETELY stop eating! Don't take another single bite until that person in Seattle says it's safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could die! Your intestines could grow out of your nose! You could... oh, Lord, it's just too horrible to contemplate!
How could I ever have survived all these years without these Seattle-based pearls of wisdom?!?
Hey, wait a second. Is all the food in Seattle GROWN in Seattle? Isn't the "majority of food" in Seattle "imported from somewhere else" too? Attention, citizens of Seattle! Effective immediately, STOP EATING!!
No no. Wait.
Almost everyone on Planet Earth eats a "majority of food" that's "imported from somewhere else"!!!
Attention, citizens of Planet Earth!

Oh, never mind.
False alarm.
Again.
:rolleyes:

:cool:

[CranBeree]

jsut an FYI, for some companies, they do require and comply with guidelines to state that food si safe for consumption. such as Kona Kampachi, when they found out that the feed they use could have been tainted, they recalled everything that went out and sent out a notice that they were testing their feed for contamination. luckily, it wasn't contaminated. and if memory serves me correctly, if a company were to bring in a product from China, that company has to have a ceritifed letter/healt cert stating its safe for human consumption.

[anapuni808]

umm, I think I remember reading someplace that Miulang was born/raised on Maui? Why does everyone keep treating her like she has never been to the islands?

I agree that we don't need all the panic stuff coming our way. Most :D folks on here are smart enough to be aware of where their food comes from and whether it is "safe" without being lectured about it.

I just don't think we need to keep attacking the messenger.

but, you all can attack me now for saying the above. I can take it. :p

[LikaNui]

umm, I think I remember reading someplace that Miulang was born/raised on Maui? Why does everyone keep treating her like she has never been to the islands? Reverse that question: Why does she keep lecturing us like we've never been here? We live here.

I agree that we don't need all the panic stuff coming our way. AMEN to that.

Most folks on here are smart enough to be aware of where their food comes from and whether it is "safe" without being lectured about it. AMEN to that too!

but, you all can attack me now for saying the above. I can take it. :p I imagine you could, but I don't know why anyone would "attack" you for saying something that most of us agree with.
[/high five]

[1stwahine]

AMEN!! To LikaNui's Post!!

Fran, I'm delivering Mango's to you this morning!:D

Lynn

[Miulang]

Bottom line. Hawai'i, more than on CONUS, relies on imported food (like 90% of it). You can stick your fingers in your ears and go "nananana". But if you actually read some of the stuff I've been posting, it will give you some information you need to know if you want to be prudent about the choices you make at the supermarket. Caveat emptor. I'm not forcing you to believe anything I say; if you don't like it, put me on ignore.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

But if you actually read some of the stuff I've been posting, it will give you some information you need to know See, that's where I and many others have a problem, Miulang. What you just posted is, once again, your lecturing us and it clearly implies that we are incapable of finding that information on our own and/or that we don't follow the news as much as you do.
And that's not only offensive, it's just plain wrong.

[Miulang]

See, that's where I and many others have a problem, Miulang. What you just posted is, once again, your lecturing us and it clearly implies that we are incapable of finding that information on our own and/or that we don't follow the news as much as you do.
And that's not only offensive, it's just plain wrong.
As if others don't do it too? Just put me on ignore, Lika, or do you just like to see yourself in the role of schoolteacher? You're not an administrator of HT and you should only speak for yourself. I have not broken any rules on this board, just providing information for anybody who wants it.

[LikaNui]

You're not an administrator of HT No, but that does remind me that the HT Admin has indeed strongly -- and publicly -- suggested to you in the past that you start your own blog, for all your lectures and "the sky is falling" panic posts.

and you should only speak for yourself. Perhaps you've missed the posts to you from many other people, saying basically what I say?

I have not broken any rules on this board Nor have I. And as long as you continue to treat HT readers as inferior idiots and continue trying to scare folks or cause panic -- and as long as your posts continually use ifs and maybes and might be's and could be's -- I will continue to reply however I darned well please.
As will others.

[LikaNui]

Miulang -- PaloloJoe has mentioned several times that you're just trying to bloat your post count, so in case you haven't looked recently, here are the Top 10 as of right now:

Miulang -- 8,005

Almost 1,000 more than 1stWahine -- 7,071

Over 2,000 more than HT's owner, Pzarquon -- 5,932

Almost double the amount of
Craigwatanabe -- 4,906
TutuSue -- 4,203
Leo Lakio -- 4,200

Over 4,000 posts more than
HT moderator Helen -- 3,851
Adrian -- 3,254

And over 5,000 posts more than
Glen Miyashiro -- 2,931
HT moderator Mel -- 2,927

PaloloJoe is clearly correct in saying that you're trying to bloat your post count. And now perhaps you understand why many of us are unhappy that you're clearly intentionally dominating HT with your fear-factor posts.

:mad:

[Leo Lakio]

Just wondering...why does anyone care anything about post counts? Do you get a prize for it, or money, or recognition in the HT Hall of Keyboard-Wearing-Out-Ness? Does anyone really follow those little numbers? Why should anyone care who posts how much?

I used to find it interesting in my first few months of HT, back when the chicklet system was also in place - now, I don't care a whit. Seems like a rather petty topic, and I wouldn't care if that information went away (like the reputation system did, and I'm glad to see it gone.) The number of times someone adds to a thread has no bearing on the content (or perceived quality of said content) of their posts.

As for what Miulang (or anyone, for that matter) contributes, the decision to call it lecturing or informing or sharing or complaining or whining or teaching rests with your own individual interpretation - and it doesn't necessarily apply to anyone else's perpsective.

As for the concept of giving posts from the Islands more value than those from elsewhere - well, until Admin says "HT is for Island residents only," that bird don't fly.

Finally, to paraphrase the Dalai Lama of Tibet (not a resident of Hawai`i, so his voice may mean nothing to some of you): "If anything I say has value to you, great. If not, just ignore it."

Have we bashed each other enough for today? Oh, I forgot - I'm from Seattle (and I'm not even from Hawai`i originally), so I don't count. Except for the number of my posts, I guess - better catch up to Tutusue. :rolleyes: Sheesh.

[helen]

Just wondering...why does anyone care anything about post counts? Do you get a prize for it, or money, or recognition in the HT Hall of Keyboard-Wearing-Out-Ness? Does anyone really follow those little numbers? Why should anyone care who posts how much?


I was kind of wondering about that too. During the time of the reputation system the number of post that you have for your account did determine the amount of reputation points you could give, which was set at 1 reputation point for every 100 post that you did. In Muliang case of 8000+ posts that's 800 points of reputation she could assign to a post. A person could just earn an extra square (which was given for every 500 points earned) whenever she gave a reputation.

Nowadays post counts might make sense for those going through the ranks but once you get to Ali'i the number of post you make doesn't convey anything.

[LikaNui]

Leo and Helen -- I think you're missing my main point, which I have now boldfaced for you:

And now perhaps you understand why many of us are unhappy that you're clearly intentionally dominating HT
with your fear-factor posts.

The problem is the incessant negativity of her posts. The endless "little boy who cried wolf", glass-is-half-full, everything-can-kill-you, none-of-you-people-are-bright-enough-to-read-much-less-understand-the-news stuffs.
The post count numbers merely show how damned often it happens.

[Miulang]

Leo and Helen -- I think you're missing my main point, which I have now boldfaced for you:



The problem is the incessant negativity of her posts. The endless "little boy who cried wolf", glass-is-half-full, everything-can-kill-you, none-of-you-people-are-bright-enough-to-read-much-less-understand-the-news stuffs.
The post count numbers merely show how damned often it happens.
And as long as you and PJ insist on stalking me and chastising me, then I consider us even. Quit stalking and perhaps you might not be so fearful. If you chose to interpret the stuff I post as being fear mongering, then I suggest you look at the yourself at the mirror and ask yourself if you are a good representative of what Hawai'i is supposed to stand for...tolerance and ALOHA. You might also want to consider the fact that I have never, ever said anything negative about YOU. Do you want me to start now?

[helen]

If you want to rebuttal someone for what they said in a post that's fine, but to use the reason of "bloating (or increasing) one's post count" as the justification for entering into a thread doesn't make any sense.


As for the concept of giving posts from the Islands more value than those from elsewhere - well, until Admin says "HT is for Island residents only," that bird don't fly.

Oh, I forgot - I'm from Seattle (and I'm not even from Hawai`i originally), so I don't count.

How comfortable would you feel if people outside of Seattle suggest to you that you should buy brand X instead of brand Y? Or you should always carry 2 umbrellas on your person and keep a third one in our car. Carry two more umbrellas if you originally hail from the east of the Rockies, otherwise one would do. You can minus one umbrella if you spent time in Alviso, CA, but you need to keep 2 more in the trunk if you travelled on the 101, I-40 or the 580 highways?

[Miulang]

If you want to rebuttal someone for what they said in a post that's fine, but to use the reason of "bloating (or increasing) one's post count" as the justification for entering into a thread doesn't make any sense.




How comfortable would you feel if people outside of Seattle suggest to you that you should buy brand X instead of brand Y? Or you should always carry 2 umbrellas on your person and keep a third one in our car. Carry two more umbrellas if you originally hail from the east of the Rockies, otherwise one would do. You can minus one umbrella if you spent time in Alviso, CA, but you need to keep 2 more in the trunk if you travelled on the 101, I-40 or the 580 highways?
If you thought about it, you would either take it to heart or ignore it completely, not get so upset that you have to flame someone. Knowledge is a very powerful tool to those who choose to use it.

BTW: Helen, I DO carry 2 umbrellas in my car;) And why is giving people information considered "bloating" one's thread count, when frivolous comments and flames aren't considered the same?

[joshuatree]

You can minus one umbrella if you spent time in Alviso, CA, but you need to keep 2 more in the trunk if you travelled on the 101, I-40 or the 580 highways?

Alviso? You don't need umbrellas there but a raft would be useful, that whole town is below sea level and is so tucked away and different, it feels like you've stepped into Mexico just by crossing over the 237. :D

[1stwahine]

I'm patiently waiting foa my LOCAL GROWN WATERCRESS dat I going add to my Chinese Roast Pork dat I wen buy from Chinatown. But my loving PK still neba bring it home.:( I'm starving. So I going open one can of sardines and eat it with poi dat was made from local grown taro.

Do you tink the sardines is SAFE for eating?:rolleyes:

Ainokea!!! I going eat um anyway!!

Auntie Lynn:p

[helen]

Bottom line. Hawai'i, more than on CONUS, relies on imported food (like 90% of it). You can stick your fingers in your ears and go "nananana". But if you actually read some of the stuff I've been posting, it will give you some information you need to know if you want to be prudent about the choices you make at the supermarket. Caveat emptor. I'm not forcing you to believe anything I say; if you don't like it, put me on ignore.


Of course we do, the bulk of the stuff that Hawaii consumes is imported from some where. And from time to time something bad happens, but sooner or later the problem will get fixed and things will get back to normal.

[Palolo Joe]

Wow. Having a job kept me from all the excitement.

But I'm here now.

Bottom line. Hawai'i, more than on CONUS, relies on imported food (like 90% of it). You can stick your fingers in your ears and go "nananana". But if you actually read some of the stuff I've been posting, it will give you some information you need to know if you want to be prudent about the choices you make at the supermarket. Caveat emptor. I'm not forcing you to believe anything I say; if you don't like it, put me on ignore.

Bottom line, all your posts do is serve to stir up fear and freak people out unecessarily.

And I'm not going to put you on ignore. I'm going to call you on your lies.

As if others don't do it too? Just put me on ignore, Lika, or do you just like to see yourself in the role of schoolteacher? You're not an administrator of HT and you should only speak for yourself. I have not broken any rules on this board, just providing information for anybody who wants it.

I'm not breaking any rules by calling you on your crap. And I don't plan on stopping, either.

Just wondering...why does anyone care anything about post counts? Do you get a prize for it, or money, or recognition in the HT Hall of Keyboard-Wearing-Out-Ness? Does anyone really follow those little numbers? Why should anyone care who posts how much?

Because it interferes with other users' enjoyment of Hawaii Threads. When I come to HT, I'm looking for stimulating conversation, without excessive bloat from pointless and off-topic posts.

Not like you would understand, because you tend to do it as well.

Seems like a rather petty topic, and I wouldn't care if that information went away (like the reputation system did, and I'm glad to see it gone.) The number of times someone adds to a thread has no bearing on the content (or perceived quality of said content) of their posts.

I disagree. The number of times someone adds to a thread ABSOLUTELY has bearing on the "perceived quality" of the content.

I don't want to click a thread and see 10 Chicken Little posts from Miulang. It's a waste of time, and I've discovered on numerous occasions that she simply DOESN'T KNOW WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT.

As for what Miulang (or anyone, for that matter) contributes, the decision to call it lecturing or informing or sharing or complaining or whining or teaching rests with your own individual interpretation - and it doesn't necessarily apply to anyone else's perpsective.

Never said it did. I speak for myself, and you sure ain't going to stop me from voicing my opinion.

As for the concept of giving posts from the Islands more value than those from elsewhere - well, until Admin says "HT is for Island residents only," that bird don't fly.

Hawaii Threads isn't solely for Hawaii residents, but it sure as hell is about HAWAII. If you want to start posting about how "we" should do things differently here because that's how it works "back in the States," well, then we're going to have a problem.


Oh, I forgot - I'm from Seattle (and I'm not even from Hawai`i originally), so I don't count. Except for the number of my posts, I guess - better catch up to Tutusue.

And it's these type of asinine comments that remind me to stay the course. For every wanna-be Hawaii resident on here, there should be two or three ACTUAL residents to provide the right perspective.

And as long as you and PJ insist on stalking me and chastising me, then I consider us even. Quit stalking and perhaps you might not be so fearful. If you chose to interpret the stuff I post as being fear mongering, then I suggest you look at the yourself at the mirror and ask yourself if you are a good representative of what Hawai'i is supposed to stand for...tolerance and ALOHA. You might also want to consider the fact that I have never, ever said anything negative about YOU. Do you want me to start now?

Stalking you? Please.

There's a function on HT that allows you to see the latest posts. That's what I check. If you happen to be in one of those threads spewing bullcrap, then I'll jump in to call you on it.

I can look in the mirror, no problem. Hawaii Threads is a VERY SMALL part of my life, and I don't need to prove to you or anyone else on here that I'm doing my part to make Hawaii better for my family and future generations.

Oh, and Miulang, you HAVE said negative things about me in the past. That's why I won't tolerate your BS now.

[Miulang]

Of course we do, the bulk of the stuff that Hawaii consumes is imported from some where. And from time to time something bad happens, but sooner or later the problem will get fixed and things will get back to normal.
If you want to take your chances knowing that the government is not doing much to keep you safe (lots of news stories all over the place about that, along with the ongoing Congressional hearings), that's fine. But since you have to eat something, wouldn't you rather try to make sure it's the purest and freshest quality stuff, though? We all tend to believe things eventually will fix themselves, until we're the ones who get sick or who know someone who gets sick from tainted food, and then we rant and rale and demand to know why things are the way they are.

[joshuatree]

But since you have to eat something, wouldn't you rather try to make sure it's the purest and freshest quality stuff, though? We all tend to believe things eventually will fix themselves, until we're the ones who get sick or who know someone who gets sick from tainted food, and then we rant and rale and demand to know why things are the way they are.

I agree in trying to make sure it's purest and safest but since you've already pointed out 90% of goods get imported in Hawaii, just exactly how much can one control or do?

[Miulang]

I agree in trying to make sure it's purest and safest but since you've already pointed out 90% of goods get imported in Hawaii, just exactly how much can one control or do?
According to one of the stories I cited, all chicken comes from the US (none is imported) so chicken should be reasonably safe (taking the usual precautions against food-borne bacteria like salmonella). Beef is safe as long as it's cuts of beef; hamburger could come from somewhere else (16% of hamburger meat is imported from outside the US). I always just buy top round steak and chop it up myself in the food processor at the time I need it if I want hamburger or ground beef (this also tends to limit your exposure to e.coli, which tends to grow rather quickly in ground beef because of all the surfaces; it's harder for bacteria to grow on slabs of beef).

For fish? Because most fish does have to have a country of origin listed, I only buy wild caught stuff and I try not to buy frozen or previously frozen (definitely not the stuff like farmed Atlantic salmon). Now that I know what happens with farmed shrimp, I will look for American caught shrimp instead of going to the Chinese supermarket and buying the frozen, thawed out shrimp (almost all shrimp in this country is sold frozen or thawed out, unless you can find locally grown ones, like the ones from Kahuku), most of which is coming out of shrimp farms in China or Thailand.

As much as possible, I try to stay away from canned, processed food unless the label says it is grown and processed in the US. Other than that, just buying seasonal and locally grown stuff is the safest, although even that's not safe sometimes (e.g., the salmonella and e.coli on fresh spinach from California a few months ago). Most of the major supermarket chains are pretty good about labelling countries of origin of the fruits and veggies too, which is a big help, so you can decide if you want to eat those Chilean peaches or Mexican tomatoes. And once you guys get your Whole Foods Market, everything has country of origin labels in that store.

All cheese should be safe (again, taking the usual precautions against bacterial contamination) as are chicken eggs (all domestically produced, even though you guys might get them from the Mainland, but then I believe those are irradiated or treated somehow) and fresh milk (no guarantees with the powdered stuff, though). Baked bread is for the most part safe since the wheat is produced in the US. Depends on what additives are added, so reading the bread label and opting for those with the fewest ingredients is probably prudent.

I'm just trying to stay away from pre-packaged stuff and preparing my most of my food from scratch because even though the label might say "Made in America" you never can tell where some of the ingredients (especially some of the spices, etc.) might come from. Some of the beloved Chinese preserved veggies and spices I now would not use or trust, given all the news that's been coming out of China about the growing and manufacturing conditions of their food products.

Forget about bottled water; unless it's imported stuff (like Evian or Perrier or Fuji), it more than likely came out of a municipal water supply. The tap water in Hawai'i is very tasty and costs way less, plus you're not using those plastic bottles so you're saving a little bit of petroleum.

It really is a bummer that we have to take matters into our own hands when it comes to our food; it used to be bad enough that we read the labels for things like transfat and calories and sodium; now we gotta worry about where it's all coming from too!:mad:

The Health Dept. up here just passed a couple of ordinances that will cause big changes for restaurants and fast food places: Transfats in meals are being banned as of next year, and all restaurant chains with 10 or more stores have to include nutrition information for all their menu items. Like you guys, I resent that the government thinks we can't decide for ourselves what's good or bad for us, but if these rules help keep a few more people from dying of heart disease, then I guess it's what they have to do to protect us from ourselves.

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

The problem is the incessant negativity of her posts. The endless "little boy who cried wolf", glass-is-half-full, everything-can-kill-you, none-of-you-people-are-bright-enough-to-read-much-less-understand-the-news stuffs.
The post count numbers merely show how damned often it happens.Thanks, LN, but I think many of us have our pet topics that we like to jump in on regularly. You yourself have been accused of overdoing it in picking on the Honolulu Weekly - I don't happen to think you do, but I can see how someone else might read it that way.

If a particular poster annoys me with their posting style, whether it be one time or eight thousand times, I am grateful that HT has the "ignore" function (I wish other boards did so.) Put someone on it, and the annoyance is gone - poof. And that's where I have some control.

But if I keep engaging them in back-and-forth pettiness, then I am equally annoying. "Two to tango" and all that...

[Leo Lakio]

How comfortable would you feel if people outside of Seattle suggest to you that you should buy brand X instead of brand Y? Or you should always carry 2 umbrellas on your person and keep a third one in our car. Carry two more umbrellas if you originally hail from the east of the Rockies, otherwise one would do. You can minus one umbrella if you spent time in Alviso, CA, but you need to keep 2 more in the trunk if you travelled on the 101, I-40 or the 580 highways?Kind of a convoluted analogy, but I think I see where you are going. The answer is: I don't care. I don't lose sleep over it, I don't get my panties in a bunch over it, I don't get high blood pressure over it.

And if it's on HT, I can "ignore" them, and I never need know about them again. So easy to resolve.

[Palolo Joe]

The answer is: I don't care.

Good for you. Glad it's working out.

However, there are others that don't appreciate being told what to do. Especially when it's somebody from thousands of miles away spewing Chicken Little BS from her high horse.

It's tiresome. And if you'd rather click ignore and hide from it, fine.

I'd rather deal with the crap head-on.

[LikaNui]

Thanks, LN, but I think many of us have our pet topics that we like to jump in on regularly. You yourself have been accused of overdoing it in picking on the Honolulu Weekly - I don't happen to think you do, but I can see how someone else might read it that way. Nah, the Weakly is just over-sensitive. I'm proudly an equal opportunity pit bull and I've probably posted just as many shots at the Advertiser and the Star-Bulletin and the various broadcast media as I have at the Weakly. (And hey, don't forget Chris Haire's "Media Watch" column in the Weakly where he blasted other media in town! Oh. Wait. That column got cancelled.) I just call 'em like I see 'em. Some folks may not like reading it, but they haven't proven me to be wrong, just outspoken. :D
If media types are too thin-skinned and whine about a media critic, they need to change careers.
(Which reminds me, what's Tiny T. doing these days, anyway? No more Advertiser page, no more FM show. Heh. :p )
When I read something that sets off my Bullsh*t Meter (or when someone attacks or even just messes with people who can't defend themselves) I'll continue my Quixotic quest of advocacy and fairness.
Anyone who doesn't like my posts is welcome to use the Ignore button.
I won't.
:cool:

[tutusue]

Just wondering...why does anyone care anything about post counts?[...]and I wouldn't care if that information went away (like the reputation system did, and I'm glad to see it gone.)[...]Except for the number of my posts, I guess - better catch up to Tutusue. :rolleyes: Sheesh.
During my almost 2 years on HT I've seen several references to bloating post counts. While I understand the reference, I don't understand the reason. Are there really people who post with the goal of increasing their count in mind? People who look at their number as a source of satisfaction? I, too, would be happy to see the numbers disappear. Personally, I don't like my number! Makes me look like I have nothing better to do with my time when, in reality, I fire 'em off!!!

I love HT's quote feature. It helps me to keep my post count down a bit.

And, for me, the "ignore" feature rocks! :p

All of the above is my reason to eat locally grown food! :D

[anapuni808]

tutusue - if you would flash back to the end of 2006, when a certain person left this board (and another one too), one of the problems that occurred with that person was the # of his posts, # of his new threads and well, just his general nature. I watched as the "inflation" happened on the other board - in just a couple of months, he had caught up to & passed just about everyone - including the moderators & owner of that board! It had this weird kind of fascination to it.

and since I'm sure he still "lurks" around these boards - he is probably dying right now to respond but...........:p

[1stwahine]

Are there really people who post with the goal of increasing their count in mind? People who look at their number as a source of satisfaction?

Earlier in the day, I requested to have my Post Count to be set back to Zero so no moa Pilikia. I LOVE HT! I don't care about how many Posts I have. I get no satisfaction from it. My satisfaction comes from sharing Aloha and Love.;)

Ok..ok...sometimes I get pisst. I'm only Human.:o

Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

This time it's products made by Castleberry Foods (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070724/BUSINESS09/707240328/1071):

State officials yesterday warned retailers and consumers to avoid opening or eating 92 different products made at a plant linked to a botulism outbreak.

At least two of the items, which range from chili sauce to corned beef hash to dog food, were found in Hawai'i yesterday, according to local officials. The canned meat products made by Castleberry's Food Co. were included in an expanded voluntary product recall announced by the manufacturer over the weekend.The products being pulled are canned chili (http://starbulletin.com/2007/07/24/news/story01.html)sold at Costco and supermarkets like Foodland:
Cattle Drive chili, one of the recalled products, is sold at several Hawaii stores, a state Health Department spokeswoman said. Costco has removed the cans from shelves.

Foodland, which carries Best Yet chili, another recalled product, has also pulled the cans from shelves.

[helen]

Nice to know that the State of Hawaii's Department of Health and local supermarkets are on the ball with this outbreak of botulism.

So what about other locations around the country (or world) are your local Health Departments and stores dealing with this crisis as well?

[Karen]

Helen, that's an excellent question. Sigh, dang watching the news about this, what came to my mind was the dollar stores that often have brands of food even and it'll be brands that are a bit obscure and they are selling them cheaply. Are these stores "on the ball" about this?

[Miulang]

Anyone who's interested in knowing how and where big business is producing most of the food you eat today should try to make it to a free screening of
"Our Daily Bread (http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/13/features/story01.html)" up at the UH next Wednesday evening.

The Austrian documentary by Nikolaus Geyrhalter explores industrial food production and high-tech farming, set against a soundtrack of the sounds of conveyor belts and giant machines. The observations are presented without comment.

It will be shown at 7 p.m. next Wednesday at the University of Hawaii-Manoa's Yukiyoshi Room, Krauss 012 as part of the Sakamaki Extraordinary Lecture Series.

"Our Daily Bread" won the jury award at the 2005 International Documentary Festival in Amsterdam, was named best film at the 2006 ECOCINEMA Film Festival, took the grand prize in the 2006 Paris Festival International of Films on the Environment and was a selection in the 2007 New York Film Festival.

Admission is free. Call 956-8246.

[Lalalinder]

Anyone who's interested in knowing how and where big business is producing most of the food you eat today should try to make it to a free screening of
"Our Daily Bread (http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/13/features/story01.html)" up at the UH next Wednesday evening.

that sounds great. we'll be in town by then, so we'll try to make it.

[Miulang]

that sounds great. we'll be in town by then, so we'll try to make it.

Lucky you! Wish I could go see it too!:)

Miulang

[Lalalinder]

Lucky you! Wish I could go see it too!:)

Miulang

it might be on netflix if you have that.

[GeckoGeek]

"Our Daily Bread (http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/13/features/story01.html)"

You can find a couple of excerpts on YouTube.

[Miulang]

With the recent tainted food scares, the whole issue of "truth in labelling (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20314236/)" is rearing its ugly head again.

The Agriculture Department, bowing to pressure from the meat lobby, the grocery industry and a Republican-dominated Capitol Hill, postponed the launching to 2004, then 2006 and finally to 2008, with the exception of seafood, which has been labeled since 2005. But the litany of recent reports on tainted food -- E. coli in spinach, salmonella in peanut butter, botulism in chili and the still-growing list of tainted Chinese products -- has prompted action.

Last month, the House Agriculture Committee updated the labeling law and the full House included it as part of a complex and long farm bill.

But don't expect labels to immediately sprout throughout grocery stores. The Senate still has to weigh in, and then the Department of Agriculture has to write rules telling everyone in the food supply chain what the law actually demands. Also, President Bush has threatened a veto of the entire farm package because of its tax and farm-subsidy implications.

...The updated law would require that beef, pork, lamb, goat, fresh and frozen fruits and vegetables carry a label with the origin of the food. The no-man's-land of labeling would be the grocery store aisles of processed food in cans, jars and pouches. Labeling country-of-origin for processed food is voluntary and the new law would not change that.



Miulang

[GeckoGeek]

and the full House included it as part of a complex and long farm bill.

Let's put the blame where it belongs - putting a bunch of marginally related things into one "package" so the pork has to be passed with the essentials.