The Trask Sisters

[Lei K]

I hear a lot of negative about the Trask sisters that I'm starting to wonder, does anyone on HT actually like them? Threads that involve these women (Haunani-Kay especially) turn out not so nice.

My very haole husband is fond of Haunani-Kay Trask even if, odds are, she wouldn't like him very much. Maybe on one of his off days I can get him to register and explain why.

It's a curiousity of mine, does anyone have anything positive to say about Haunani-Kay or Mililani?

[scrivener]

I am something of a fan of Haunani-Kay. She sat in on a creative writing class I was in at UH-Hilo shortly after her most recent anthology of poetry was released, and we got to talk a LOT about writing. She does consider herself a writer, with no qualification on it like "political" or "Hawaiian." I don't think her poetry is the greatest, but it reads the way poetry by a thinking writer reads. That goes a long way with me. I went in expecting to be disappointed; I left feeling that I'd learned a thing or two about the writing process.

I disagree with the way Ka Lahui has done things, but I agree (mostly) with their model for soveriegnty and I believe it's one of the more workable models (nation-within-a-nation status).

So yeah. Count me a fan.

[Keanu]

I hear a lot of negative about the Trask sisters that I'm starting to wonder, does anyone on HT actually like them? Threads that involve these women (Haunani-Kay especially) turn out not so nice.

My very haole husband is fond of Haunani-Kay Trask even if, odds are, she wouldn't like him very much. Maybe on one of his off days I can get him to register and explain why.

It's a curiousity of mine, does anyone have anything positive to say about Haunani-Kay or Mililani?

I have much respect for the Trask sisters. Some people have issues with the messages they convey and because of that, they dislike them. I however, have only respect for them and know of others within the Hawaiian Community that share my sentiments.

[alohabear]

I have much respect for the Trask sisters. Some people have issues with the messages they convey and because of that, they dislike them. I however, have only respect for them and know of others within the Hawaiian Community that share my sentiments.The only thing that erks me about then is the fact that Trask is a very haole name and they always BADMOUTH the white people.

[PoiBoy]

Need more kanaka like Haunani-Kay.

[Keanu]

The only thing that erks me about then is the fact that Trask is a very haole name and they always BADMOUTH the white people.

The Trasks are part caucasian. They don't bad mouth white people, only those they consider "haole".

[Leo Lakio]

I think one of Keanu's points matches my attitude: they come across as abrasive, so it's sometimes hard to get past the messenger in order to really listen to the message. But I want to hear their story, and I wouldn't ask them to deliver it any differently than the way they feel is right.

[Lei K]

Youtube.com link to an interview with Mililani Trask for people on HT not too familiar with her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKOkPUuumF4

[Keanu]

For the record, I consider alohabear to be "haole". He is haole in my book so henceforth, I will refer to him as "haoleboy".

[alohabear]

The Trasks are part caucasian. They don't bad mouth white people, only those they consider "haole".
From Honolulu Magazine:Trask played a formative role in the creation of the University of Hawai'i's Center for Hawaiian Studies, and became the university's first full-time professor of Hawaiian Studies. She caught flak in 1990 for suggesting a "haole" UH student return to the Mainland, but remains unrepentant about her vocal opposition to what she sees as continued injustice: "For a long time, people have been accustomed to Hawaiians being soft, sweet and kind, willingly accepting of their oppression. That time has passed. We are articulate, educated, angry, forceful. I'm proud to represent that."
She has done a lot to help the Hawaiian culture. I would say the Trasks are 3/4 caucasian, and they pick who they want to be racist to.

[alohabear]

For the record, I consider alohabear to be "haole". He is haole in my book so henceforth, I will refer to him as "haoleboy".That's cool...BTW Keanu we are still waiting for your answer on the question Timkona asked you on another thread.

[Lei K]

I can't talk for my husband but I do know one of the things he likes so much about Haunani-Kay is how she speaks. He feels that Kanaka should be powerful with their message to get it across to people, especially here on the continent. A lot of times he and I don't agree with how I talk to people about Hawaiian issues. He thinks I'm too nice about it and people are going to think Hawaiians are just fine with how their lives are if I act so aloha like about it. He tells me nothing will change unless I act upset and passionate about the cause. He thinks that if theres too much aloha people will just brush off what I say.

[Keanu]

That's cool...BTW Keanu we are still waiting for your answer on the question Timkona asked you on another thread.

I will respond to Tim when I have finished my research. I will send my response to Tim directly. Whether or not he wishes to disclose that information with you is up to him.

[alohabear]

I will respond to Tim when I have finished my research. I will send my response to Tim directly. Whether or not he wishes to disclose that information with you is up to him.I was just wondering(like MANY on this board)because your statements were made so public ,I and many who responded to that thread were waiting ,but if you like keep 'um private....that's cool
Aloha!

[greentara]

From Honolulu Magazine:
She has done a lot to help the Hawaiian culture. I would say the Trasks are 3/4 caucasian, and they pick who they want to be racist to.

Perhaps Haole is a state of mind??? I just started Native Daughter and so far I agree with what she is saying. :cool:

[timkona]

Racist White Woman

I could kick
Your face, puncture
Both eyes.
You deserve this kind
Of violence.
No more vicious
Tongues, obscene
Lies.
Just a knife
Slitting your tight
Little heart.
For all my people
Under your feet
For all those years
Lived smug and wealthy
Off our land
Parasite arrogant
A fist
In your painted
Mouth, thick
With money
And piety

Wow.....that is poetry. Tito, get me a tissue. Apartheid is always a good answer. Right?

"In Hawaii, I am probably the most famous racist," she said,"

A quick search of the internet revealed so many vile, racist remarks that I am shocked. (and it takes a lot to shock me). If these are the types of people revered in the culture of the islands, then it should be no surprise that the culture is on the ropes. She is a cancer, unseen, unfelt, that is certain to kill the host organism.

[Leo Lakio]

does anyone have anything positive to say about Haunani-Kay or Mililani?I think it's safe to put Tim in the "no" column on this question.

[greentara]

Racist White Woman

I could kick
Your face, puncture
Both eyes.
You deserve this kind
Of violence.
No more vicious
Tongues, obscene
Lies.
Just a knife
Slitting your tight
Little heart.
For all my people
Under your feet
For all those years
Lived smug and wealthy
Off our land
Parasite arrogant
A fist
In your painted
Mouth, thick
With money
And piety

Wow.....that is poetry. Tito, get me a tissue. Apartheid is always a good answer. Right?

"In Hawaii, I am probably the most famous racist," she said,"

A quick search of the internet revealed so many vile, racist remarks that I am shocked. (and it takes a lot to shock me). If these are the types of people revered in the culture of the islands, then it should be no surprise that the culture is on the ropes. She is a cancer, unseen, unfelt, that is certain to kill the host organism.

LOL ~ Perhaps she is speaking in metaphor Tim. ;)

[alohabear]

I think it's safe to put Tim in the "no" column on this question.Could be those are the most positive things Tim can say.

[Leo Lakio]

I will respond to Tim when I have finished my research. I will send my response to Tim directly. Whether or not he wishes to disclose that information with you is up to him.Oh, man...that is SO not fair...remember:I will gladly post those numbers when I finish my research. :)Seriously, Keanu, I hope you will post publicly - and if you don't, then I hope Tim will share your information with us. The general rule of etiquette is to NOT post a PM into a thread - but you've herein granted permission for him to do so. Your research will be a valuable piece of the ongoing discussions.

[scrivener]

Wow.....that is poetry. Tito, get me a tissue. Apartheid is always a good answer. Right?
Just so you know: I agree that this is not good poetry; it is, however, not representative of the poetry in her collection. Tim, does it make any difference to you (I ask in all sincerity) to know that this is not aimed at white women in general, but one particular white woman for whom Haunani-Kay felt this aggression? She is not targeting white women as a population, but one PARTICULAR white woman. I asked her to clarify this and this is how she explained it.

I think we've all felt this way about one person at some time.

[Lei K]

but one PARTICULAR white woman. I asked her to clarify this and this is how she explained it.

That was my guess as she said woman and not women.

[PoiBoy]

Its a powerful piece. I never read anything like it....imo betta than that academia follow the rules structured garbage.

[timkona]

Well Scriv, perhaps it was aimed at one particular woman. But the quote about being the most famous racist is quite revealing.

I am now certain, and I mean ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN, that I know nothing about racism. I simply don't get the concept. You could bonk me on the head, and I guarantee I won't understand.

It's really tearing at my self-esteem to realize there is something I'm not good at. I'm gonna work on this. Doggone it, I have been able to learn most things ever presented to me. I WILL learn to be a racist eventually. Is there any kind of self help tapes, or online programs. Maybe hypnosis, or some kind of prescription medication would help. Time to Google.

Anybody got any other ideas that might help me learn to be a better racist??

[pzarquon]

I hear a lot of negative about the Trask sisters that I'm starting to wonder, does anyone on HT actually like them? Threads that involve these women (Haunani-Kay especially) turn out not so nice.They're outspoken community leaders with their hands in a whole mess of controversial topics. They're lightning rods. They're intensely provocative, frequently wrong, but articulate and decisive and brilliant. They cause a stir, but they know exactly what they're doing when they do. So you could put me in the "like" column, too.

I dealt frequently with both Trask sisters at UH (Haunani-Kay in particular), both as editor of Ka Leo and as a student in Hawaiian Studies. I respected them always, and liked them... most of the time. Though she wasn't a Trask, I was also a fan of Lilikala Kameeleihiwa.

I say this even though they, at varying times, denounced me and Ka Leo. Even though there was a Campus Center protest against us and our "racist" publication right outside our office. Even though I was told that I may be part Hawaiian, but because I disagreed with some particular sovereignty model, I was simply "misguided." (The horror of a Hawaiian disagreeing with another Hawaiian!) They also responded to interview requests, handled themselves professionally, helped us publish a regular all Hawaiian language column... and defended us when we refused to print translations.

Of course, my appreciation is not unwavering. They anger me sometimes, too. I just remind myself that many of the things other activists and activist groups do (ACLU, PETA, etc.) make me shake my head or feel disgust. But at the same time, I'm usually glad that they're there.

[Miulang]

There are ways passionate people can express their fervor for a topic or cause without casting others in a disrespectful light, however.

When you look at a Maya Angelou or a Barbara Jordan---and both are very commanding presences---you see that in the way they carry themselves and the way they speak, they don't need to hurl expletives or invectives, and yet they still can get their points across. I think more people listen when the volume is turned down than when the volume is loud and the words hurtful. Another example: Ghandhi. He moved a country and world without uttering any profanities.

Miulang

[Keanu]

Oh, man...that is SO not fair...remember:Seriously, Keanu, I hope you will post publicly - and if you don't, then I hope Tim will share your information with us. The general rule of etiquette is to NOT post a PM into a thread - but you've herein granted permission for him to do so. Your research will be a valuable piece of the ongoing discussions.

http://www.lafavre.us/harp/new-harp.jpg

:)

[Leo Lakio]

:D Tim only got a violin --- I rate a full-on harp! (Stop stringin' me along, man.)

[buzz1941]

"Lightning rod" is a good description. I think people often mistake the Trask sisters for the political and cultural parts they play. It's almost like having a real live avatar.

I disagree with much of what they say. However, by sheer force of personality and intellectual brilliance, they're trying to strike a balance in decades of hypocrasy. My limited real-life experience with them was delightful, however. They are bright, amusing, articulate and passionate. And a real pain in the okole. That's a good thing in a world full of mealy-mouthed middle-roaders.

[PoiBoy]

That's a good thing in a world full of mealy-mouthed middle-roaders.
Very well put buzz.

[alohabear]

Today I happened by the festival craft fair. Many people were there embracing the Hawaiian culture, racially the besides the Kanaka Maoli and Japanese nationals, the caucasians(local and tourists)were embracing the culture the most. No fighting, no bad mouthing just happy smiling faces.

Maybe the Kingdom was stolen, but that was over 100 years ago. If the Kanaka Maoli want rights owed to them because of the overthrow they should go for it, but(IMO) they should do it as a PEOPLE. Leaders like Trask should get together with the other Hawaiian leaders in a Ho'oponopono and iron out the differences among their OWN people before going for what is owed to them, then maybe someone will listen.


Aloha

[craigwatanabe]

So what makes one of the Trask sisters more noble than that Waianae Family in which both uttered that now infamous Non Hate Crime words: F*ck and Haole in the same breath?

When you take the battle that far below the belt, I'm sorry my respect for either went out the door and I gladly put the label of ignorant on their foreheads.

As one good Kanaka Maoli friend of mine said after she said that, "No mo head dat wahine".

Poetry or not Scriv, das some really hateful words that makes Imus' Ho statement look like reciting the A-B-C's in 1st grade.

There is no place for crap literature for that. Her other stuff...okay but keep it outta da public eyes and ears. Our keiki don't need to hear or read horrific stuff like that. She should have known better as a scholar :rolleyes:

[scrivener]

Poetry or not Scriv, das some really hateful words that makes Imus' Ho statement look like reciting the A-B-C's in 1st grade.

There is no place for crap literature for that. Her other stuff...okay but keep it outta da public eyes and ears. Our keiki don't need to hear or read horrific stuff like that. She should have known better as a scholar.
Craig, when Michael Madsen cut the ear off a police officer in Reservoir Dogs, did you take that to mean Michael Madsen hates cops? And when Christopher Penn later shot that same cop dead, did you think Penn was a cop-killer? Or did you perhaps think Quentin Tarantino, who wrote the script and directed the film, was the real cop-hater?

No, you thought none of those things because you understood that film is not life. You get that there's a separation between the creator of a work and the narrator/actor/persona in that work.

Haunani-Kay, by putting these feelings onto paper, is not guilty of hate-speech. I agree that it's not a very good poem; however, whatever it is, it is not necessarily meant to be taken as the exact, literal feeling of the person who wrote those words.

As for "no place for crap literature like that," I can't disagree more. America is the best place in the world for crap literature like that and great literature like John Steinbeck's, and every sort of literature in between, because when artists create art, while the overwhelming majority of it is going to suck, the good stuff, the stuff that captures perfectly a moment, a feeling, a thought, or a personality is the stuff that keeps us the people we are.

What kids are going to even see that poem? It was published in an anthology by a mainland house and almost nobody bought the thing. I bought it, and I've got it signed by the writer. It is a reminder to me of the day I learned to connect with a writer and not with an image given me by writers or broadcasters.

Besides, if kids are reading thoughtful literature, even of this sort, wow! What a wonderful springboard for turning the kids on to other great poetry, or to open dialogue about what causes someone to feel feelings like this. If more kids read poems like this, I guarantee the crime rate would go down.

[LikaNui]

I agree that it's not a very good poem; however, whatever it is, it is not necessarily meant to be taken as the exact, literal feeling of the person who wrote those words. I find it hard to believe that what Trask really meant was that she wanted to be friends with that woman.
Correction: I find that impossible to believe.
Her level of anger, hatred and violence cannot be construed in any other way than anger, hatred, and violence.

If more kids read poems like this, I guarantee the crime rate would go down. Surely you jest? There have been dozens of murders and mass-murders and other sick and violent crimes that have been committed by kids who claim they got the idea from a movie or a TV show or from some other "art form".
There's no doubt that Trask is intelligent, there's simply well-founded doubt about her sanity.

:mad:

[scrivener]

Surely you jest? There have been dozens of murders and mass-murders and other sick and violent crimes that have been committed by kids who claim they got the idea from a movie or a TV show or from some other "art form".
I jest not. Lika, if kids started reading literate poetry, they'd be smart. Reading makes you smart. Reading helps you succeed in school. People who succeed in school are far, far, far, far less likely to commit property crime. You think this poem is hateful? It isn't nearly has hateful as portions of Macbeth, the Canterbury Tales, Les Miserables, and just about every opera I can think of (which I grant you is not very many). Kids who read Slaughterhouse 5 or Catch 22 in elementary school do not, I'd wager, end up commiting "mass-murders and other sick and violent crimes." In fact, who are the kids who say they read violent poetry and that's what led them to committing the crimes you name?

[timkona]

Pzarquon wrote - They're intensely provocative, frequently wrong, but articulate and decisive and brilliant.

Frequently wrong AND brilliant ...... at the same time. :cool:

Perhaps that is an oxymoron. :rolleyes:

[LikaNui]

Well, you got me there, Scriv. The kids crimes were blamed on movies and TV and music, and perhaps comic books and paperbacks and for sure there have been copycat crimes of things kids saw in the news.
However, I cannot, in good conscience, cite a crime committed because of poetry, as you noted.
:o

But there's always a first time.
Like you, I'm a strong advocate of reading, for kids and adults. Clearly, Trask's "poem" is not on my 'recommended reading' list.
And I have to say that upon reading her "poem" my first thought about Trask was in the words of the great and wise philospher Don Henley: "I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass."

:cool:

[scrivener]

Like you, I'm a strong advocate of reading, for kids and adults. Clearly, Trask's "poem" is not on my 'recommended reading' list.
And I have to say that upon reading her "poem" my first thought about Trask was in the words of the great and wise philospher Don Henley: "I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass."
I'm glad we can agree on the reading. :)

Now, really. Look at the poem. Do you not feel the same way toward racists? I am not a hateful person, but when I have heard of some of the things people have done to other human beings because of some idea of superiority, it has filled me with the kinds of feelings (the KINDS of feelings) expressed here. This is not a poem about Auntie Myrna drinking coffee at the McD's. It's about some hateful, scornful, racist woman. Seems to me that if this kind of violence were called for maybe it'd be toward people like that. In any case, worth discussing.

[PoiBoy]

I jest not. Lika, if kids started reading literate poetry, they'd be smart. Reading makes you smart.
Eh I guess my folks were stupid according to you. Thats why their accomplishments baffle scientist today.
Not a very well thought out statement.

Good thing haole came to Hawai'i too.....to teach the natives how to read. Make them civilized and smart.:rolleyes:

[MonkeyMan]

Anybody got any other ideas that might help me learn to be a better racist??

Start a KKK chapter?

[scrivener]

Eh I guess my folks were stupid according to you. Thats why their accomplishments baffle scientist today.
Not a very well thought out statement.
Please. Where did I ever say that not reading makes you stupid?

[MonkeyMan]

Eh I guess my folks were stupid according to you. Thats why their accomplishments baffle scientist today.
Not a very well thought out statement.

Good thing haole came to Hawai'i too.....to teach the natives how to read. Make them civilized and smart.:rolleyes:

Ohhh, ooh!! I heard dat guy TimKona starting one club! You should go join!

Eh, where you wen' learn for talk Engrish so good?! I like go dakine school!

[PoiBoy]

Please. Where did I ever say that not reading makes you stupid?

Didn't need to. It certainly implys that.

quote you " Lika, if kids started reading literate poetry, they'd be smart. Reading makes you smart."

#1 reading poetry does not make someone smart.(you are wrong)
#2 by saying "If kids started reading literate poetry, the'd be smart" then backing that statement up with "reading makes you smart." You imply that people that don't read would not be smart. You also imply that kids that don't read literate poetry are not smart.
not smart=stupid

It can easily be interpreted as such.

Please work on your statements.

[scrivener]

#1 reading poetry does not make someone smart.(you are wrong)
#2 by saying "If kids started reading literate poetry, the'd be smart" then backing that statement up with "reading makes you smart." You imply that people that don't read would not be smart. You also imply that kids that don't read literate poetry are not smart.
not smart=stupid

It can easily be interpreted as such.

Please work on your statements.
If you insist. Let us take the first part of your post. "Reading poetry does not make someone smart." This is incorrect. There are a great many ways to be smart, as Howard Gardner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Gardner) puts forth. I'm an ardent fan of Gardner, but even without theories of multiple intelligences, I would think that my posting record on HT is pretty clear: I hold valuable all kinds of intelligences. Reading poetry certainly DOES make you smart, as does playing sports, performing in plays, participating in church activities, and fixing cars. Anything (well, just about) done thoughtfully and with passion makes you smart. You can disagree if you want, but I'll come back at you with documented research that supports literacy as a critical key to staying out of trouble.

As for your second statement:

If Jane Fonda is a woman, but you are not Jane Fonda, does that mean you are not a woman? No. A statement such as "if A then B" is not logically equivalent to "if not A then not B." Take a look at this truth table and you will see:

http://chalkdust.mitchellkdwyer.net/images/truthtable.png

If it's been a while since you've looked at symbolic logic, the table basically breaks down like this. Columns 1 and 2 show all the combinations of two statements being either true or false. Column 3 is a conditional statement: If A then B. In our case, if you read, then you become smart. When A is true and B is true, A --> B is true. When A is true and B is false, A --> B is false, and so on.

Columns 4 and 5 show the different combinations for the inverses of the two statements A and B. In our case, ~A means "You didn't read" and ~B means "You didn't become smart." Column 6 is the conditional statement "If you didn't read, then you didn't become smart." As you can see, columns 6 and 3 are not identical, meaning they are not logically equivalent.

One way to look at it is this: Your mom says that if you clean your room, your uncle will give you ten dollars. You get distracted and you DON'T clean your room, but when your uncle comes over, he gives you ten dollars anyway because you're his favorite nephew. Not cleaning your room did not result in your not getting ten dollars, right? Because unless you put an "IF AND ONLY IF" statement in there (symbolically, A <--> B), "If not A then not B" is not logically sound.

As a bonus, I put column 7 in to show you what a logicaly equivalent statement looks like. Column 7 is the conditional statement "if not B, then not A." As you can see, it is identical to column 3, and therefore logically equivalent.

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_table)'s a pretty good article on truth tables, and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens) is a VERY good article explaining Modus tollens, the logical reasoning behind column 7. Oh, and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denying_the_antecedent)'s an article explaining the fallacy of "if not A, then not B." Sorry, I wrote all that above but couldn't remember the name of the fallacy, which is "denying the antecedent." It's been a few years.

I hope this helps.

[Miulang]

Ahhh, logic. Too bad homo sapiens has this very inconvenient habit of defying logic at the most illogical times (except maybe for Spock, but he was only half-human).;) I bet there are people in this world who are still trying to prove that 1+1 does not equal two (yes, I was a victim of "modern math").

Miulang

[glossyp]

Craig, when Michael Madsen cut the ear off a police officer in Reservoir Dogs, did you take that to mean Michael Madsen hates cops? And when Christopher Penn later shot that same cop dead, did you think Penn was a cop-killer? Or did you perhaps think Quentin Tarantino, who wrote the script and directed the film, was the real cop-hater?

No, you thought none of those things because you understood that film is not life. You get that there's a separation between the creator of a work and the narrator/actor/persona in that work.
Earlier in the thread you noted that the poem was addressed to a specific woman. That alone makes the comparisons you draw here invalid. Never mind that Madsen and Penn are actors playing parts. Perhaps you could draw a tenuous line to Tarantino as the script writer and speculate that he may be a cop hater, but overall, the comparison makes no sense. I don't see how you can separate Trask from the work and say she did not hate/despise/revile/want to destroy the subject of the poem, when it is quite clear that she did. One thing that can be said about the poem is this: there is no ambiquity and no need to look for the deeper meaning, it is all right there.

If more kids read poems like this, I guarantee the crime rate would go down.
Maybe reading poetry in general, but reading poetry of violent imagery as a crime deterrent? Do you have data to show this to be true?

[timkona]

Scriv's logic post is the greatest post I have ever seen on HT.

Everybody should bookmark that, and refer to it at least once a month.

(scriv gets extra oats in his feed bucket tonight)

[PoiBoy]

If you insist. Let us take the first part of your post. "Reading poetry does not make someone smart." This is incorrect. There are a great many ways to be smart, as Howard Gardner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Gardner) puts forth. I'm an ardent fan of Gardner, but even without theories of multiple intelligences, I would think that my posting record on HT is pretty clear: I hold valuable all kinds of intelligences. Reading poetry certainly DOES make you smart, as does playing sports, performing in plays, participating in church activities, and fixing cars. Anything (well, just about) done thoughtfully and with passion makes you smart. You can disagree if you want, but I'll come back at you with documented research that supports literacy as a critical key to staying out of trouble.
ah an academic governed by rules. Rules you swallowed from someones elses mind then regurgitated. Sad that you look at a "table" for truth.
Did you use it with god?
Howard Gardner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Gardner) is not the authority on anything to me.
Instead of analyzing my post ....take a look at yours.

[greentara]

Scriv's logic post is the greatest post I have ever seen on HT.

Everybody should bookmark that, and refer to it at least once a month.

(scriv gets extra oats in his feed bucket tonight)

His post brought back nightmares for me all of the long hours I spend in the tutorial center trying to get through symbolic logic with a "C" ~ just barely made it. Hardest course in all of my college years. Couldn't wait to sell my book back to the book store to negate all memories. However, I must say I totally respect people that do "get it". The premise fascinates me. r.e.s.p.e.c.t. Scrivener ;)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I hear a lot of negative about the Trask sisters that I'm starting to wonder, does anyone on HT actually like them? Threads that involve these women (Haunani-Kay especially) turn out not so nice.

My very haole husband is fond of Haunani-Kay Trask even if, odds are, she wouldn't like him very much. Maybe on one of his off days I can get him to register and explain why.

It's a curiousity of mine, does anyone have anything positive to say about Haunani-Kay or Mililani?

their actions and deeds are consistent with their beliefs, and I appreciate their collective integrity, passion, love for our people, and desire for our holomua, so much so that they are willing to stick their necks out as they have over the years.

That said, our families are very close, and even so, I have battled with at least one of them over the years. I look at that experience soberly and distance has allowed me to get over taking it so personally, as I did, because it wasn't about ((me)), it was about all those I believed needed my advocacy and defense.

And today, if I run into her, we can sit, chat, eat lunch together, bring it up (or not), hash, rehash, understand that we will never agree on that chapter of our lives, and still respect each other. We have so much common ground, and so much that we disagree upon, that I look forward to seeing her. By sharing that belief in the greater good for Hawaii and our people, it is in those differing povs that we make our cases stronger.

Hawaiians would be a poorer place without them and though I harbor no desire to draft a press release on their behalf, ;) I gladly defend the heart and contributions of the Trask Sisters.

[craigwatanabe]

Okay so I come back to this thread and am dumbfounded by Scriv's logical analysis of Jane Fonda.

Yes she's a woman but she's among other things a lot of things including logic that was interpreted as negative in the eyes of humanity where logic cannot be construed as the way of life.

If life was built around logic, we wouldn't have wars, poverty, and all things contributed to human emotion.

In their poetic ways of communicating their subjective thoughts on other races, they fail to see that it is they that have become the racist in their contempt of humanity in general.

Logic cannot be used as a tool of measure when applied to such subjective words as found in poetry.

Logic cannot be used as a tool of measure when applied to human emotion. Emotion covers such a broad area it becomes shades of grey. Logic fails to see these subtle variations of reality. It only sees peaks and dwells and cannot comprehend the vastness of space between.

If that were the case then the bible would be three words: Believe or die and not an epic in human discipline for belief structure.

When the Trasks stood across the State Capitol with a banner that associated Haoles with a negative word, that act crossed the lines of human decency whether it was poetic or not, she targetted Haoles in a negative way...Hate Crime by the laws we are governed by.

There is no place for verbage like that and I say again, her poetry reciting vulgar acts against humanity is in no way thoughtful or can be construed as making one smarter. It makes one hateful. Plug that into your equation.

[scrivener]

I agree with most of what you say about logic. That logic stuff was posted in order to demonstrate that saying "People who read become smart" is NOT saying "People who don't read do not become smart."

[anapuni808]

When the Trasks stood across the State Capitol with a banner that associated Haoles with a negative word, that act crossed the lines of human decency whether it was poetic or not, she targetted Haoles in a negative way...Hate Crime by the laws we are governed by.

Sorry to take your post & crop it to just this one paragraph but I wanted to make a commment. I was there, in front of Washington Place, holding a sign with everyone else the day of the infamous incident. First of all, it was not a banner - it was a sign, held by Haunani-Kay. (I know - nit picking). While there, my white skin was not made to feel unwelcome because I was there in solidarity with the protest. The Trask sisters are controversial yes - but they are very passionate about the theft of their nation. We may not agree with their methods but I admire their bravery and strength in taking the stands they do. and for being loud, proud & in your face! I cannot in any way claim acquaintance with the sisters but anyone who does know them, knows they don't hate all people with white skin. "Haole" is not just defined as a skin color, its also how a person behaves and conducts themselves in their community. I can understand that, and have no problems with it.

[LikaNui]

I was there, in front of Washington Place, holding a sign with everyone else the day of the infamous incident. I'm curious, and this goes to anyone -- were there children there? And if so, what lessons did they learn?

:confused:

[timkona]

Gosh darn it LikaNui...Stop being so poignant.

From Auntie Haunani-Kay, the keiki are learning cherished traits of humanity, like racism, hatred, loathing, bitterness, entitlement, and a whole variety of other useful human behaviors. She should be proud of the example she sets for the keiki. Think of all the good she doing for the people.

[craigwatanabe]

To answer the question, yes there were children present. LOTS of them!

I do understand the intensity of what they were attempting to showcase, that the native Hawaiian has had enough and has reached critical mass to the point of vulgar statements.

BUT when she got to that point and lashed out with those words, she lowered her standards to those in which she was contesting...the White Man. She became her worst enemy by becoming one of them. Instead of maintaining her poise, she guttered out and became what she was fighting against.

The passion I do understand as I would also become so agitated that nothing was getting done and no forward movement in my cause has occured, yes I too would become as passionate as her. BUT there are ways of communicating effectively and swearing ethnic slurs is not a good way.

In my book she basically lost it...had enough of it...popped a vein...you name but she lost her cool and lost my respect at the same time. Hopefully she has learned from that and has moved on to better ways of fighting a battle.

I really hope so because she is a driving force behind mending an open wound that has infected Kanaka Maoli. You don't heal with hatred.

[Lei K]

"Haole" is not just defined as a skin color, its also how a person behaves and conducts themselves in their community. I can understand that, and have no problems with it.


This is a lot like how my husband thinks. The way he uses haole is for how someone conducts themselves.

A lot of times he says to his step mother, "Geez you act sooo haole," not that she really understands what that means. :p He says that because she acts VERY high makamaka. "Haole" by my family, towards my husband, is used as an endearing term, "Haoleboy." I guess it's one of those words that can mean so many things mattering on how it's said. I grew up hearing it used in the Hawai`i school system as in "F*ckin Haole" (Northern European/American). I tend to use it with a much more broad "foreigner" definition. ANYTHING foreign to Hawai`i.

My white as white can be, nothing in him that's could be considered exotic or dark, husband takes absolutely no offense to haole, no matter how it's used. Matter of fact sometimes I think it's his favorite word. As I said he loves Haunani-Kay Trask. :D On a personal level, I love her strength and passion. I think she inspires many to do something finally.