How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

[islandguy]

This is a question I have been pondering for the last few weeks...

How much $$ do you REALLY need to make to live in hawaii? My wife, son, and I lived there for 5 years recently, and we only made about $2500 a month, and we had plenty of money.

Keep in mind that we do not use credit cards, pay CASH for everything, and hold to a budget. We had a good time there, and I dont see why people claim it costs a fortune to live there... I wonder where they were living or what their "standard" of living was (what they chose to spend their money on, vs what they really needed).

Comments welcome...

[tutusue]

Was your $2500./mo. gross or net?

This is an interesting topic because I, too, don't need much more that. However, I don't have a mortgage, a spouse or a child living at home.

Please tell us how you did it.

[kthor]

was looking at Hawaii real estate at oahua island and was amazed that prices are comparable 2 California homes. Ewa beach, Central oahua and leeward coast have homes under $500k . I didnt know that.

Think my dreams of living in Hawaii might come true sooner than I expected.

[craigwatanabe]

First let me congratulate you on being able to live here with no major financial issues because that is not an easy task to do.

However (ahh you knew that was coming:D ), it is expensive to live here especially with a family.

If you rent have a small family in town then it's actually doable to live decently.

Rent is generally smaller (albeit lately not by a large margin) than mortgage payments. Renters don't have to pay for property taxes, home owners insurance, or all utility costs.

We all of course know the benefits of owning a home. However month to month expenditure wise, renting will save you a few bucks on your monthly budget.

With one child living costs are lower as well. I have six boys so I know it costs a lot to feed six bottomless pits.

With no credit cards you pay no additional monthly payments. Is that good? Heck yeah but I've been in retail for three years now and generally when a customer pays only in cash, it typically means they didn't have a high enough credit score to get a credit card or for that matter qualify for a home mortgage, so in the long run they rent and pay no credit card fees every month.

Good for a monthly budget, bad if you budget annually where the tax benefits of home ownership typically eclipse any annual savings over renting.

For those who have poor credit ratings, and fit into this profile, that means qualifying for government subsidies. WIC provides an excellent way for low-income earners with young children (babies and toddlers) to get a couple gallons of milk and quarts of juice plus cheese and other products for free!

For all of those who fit into any of these profiles and there are quite a few more freebies out there to reduce the cost of living here in paradise. Then there are those that are in the GAP Group. Earning too much for subsidies, earning too little to live comfortably.

These are the people that suffer from the high costs of living here in Hawaii.

They do not qualify for Section 8 housing so they pay the full amount for rentals. They do not qualify for a home mortgage because their monthly debt is too high.

With no subsidy support to offset essential purchases (food, medical, insurance, housing, etc) and no mortgage to shelter their income, life can be a bit stressful when it comes to making ends meet.

This happens everywhere in the US but here in Hawaii it is definately an issue as we cannot simply cross the state lines to Nevada and buy our groceries tax free.

It doesn't help that our electrical costs are the highest in the nation either.

Okay so the headlines read Hawaii has the most millionaires per capita. Per Capita doesn't have to mean cash assets.

President Clinton at one time wanted to redefine who is "rich". I can't remember the exact dollar figure but because of the cost of homes here in Hawaii, his definition would have made virtually all Hawaii home owners as rich and would have been taxed at a higher rate (it's the Democratic way...tax the rich). That suggestion died in flames on the floor of Congress.

None the less it seems you have to own a home to be considered "well off". Unfortunately Hawaii has a higer than normal amount of renters here and that's a problem.

If you can get by with $2500 a month, pay your rent, utilities, gas, food, insurance and still have money in the bank, then that is remarkably good. I'd stay the course or not wipe my feet because you definately stepped in some major dog poop because it is not the norm by a long shot.

To live comfortably with a short driving distance on Oahu typically requires a rent of close to $2,000 per month for a family of four. Maybe $1600 but finding that is harder as they are scooped up rather quickly.

Live out of town and you daily commute becomes expensive due to fuel costs. When I visited Honolulu a couple of weeks ago to help fix my sister in law's condo in Mililani I drove my wife every morning on the zipper lane to get to downtown Honolulu. I was shocked as I peered at the H2 and the Nimitz overpass in the regular lanes to see a mass of cars with their lone occupant in EVERY CAR stuck in that mess.

So you live in town and pay a higher rent to offset lower fuel and automobile maintenance costs. Makes sense. I live 22-miles out of Hilo and make the commute three times a day. I spend over $500 per month on gas because of it. That's $500 that could have gone into a higher priced home in Hilo.

Same as Honolulu pay more to live closer, pay less to commute as a result.

But with high rent/mortgage, gas, electricity, food and taxes, a typical family of four CANNOT make it on $2500 per month and have a decent savings account IF they are GAP Group wage earners. The only ones that can live with any less stress are those on some subsidy support, the frggin rich or those with less than the standard family size.

And when I say subsidy support, that includes parents that watch their adult children's kids instead of paying over $760 per month in child care costs like most of us do.

$2500 per month? Break it down for me and let's use it as a template for the rest of us because if it's true you're onto something. I'm a bit skeptical here. Remember it has to be "Comfortable living" I could make my family survive on $2500 per month but we'll be missing a few meals and will be eating those in the dark occassionally. Oh and definately dial up service:D

[tutusue]

was looking at Hawaii real estate at oahua island and was amazed that prices are comparable 2 California homes. Ewa beach, Central oahua and leeward coast have homes under $500k . I didnt know that.

Think my dreams of living in Hawaii might come true sooner than I expected.
Hawaii's cost of living is very comparable to SoCal in general and Orange County in particular. I'll narrow that down to Laguna Beach 'cuz that's my home town and I'm familiar with the costs. It costs me less to live in Hawaii than it did to live in Laguna.

Keep in mind, tho', that the Oahu areas you mention above equal long commute times if you work in town during normal business hours. Traffic has become horrendous. I live in Makaha (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?address=&city=Makaha&state=HI&zoom=6&style=2) (leeward coast...probably the least expensive real estate area on Oahu) and work in town. I live that far away because living oceanfront was affordable when I bought my condo during the mid 1980s. It's still affordable by Hawaii standards but a heckuva lot more expensive now. In mainland terminology it's considered "the wrong side of the tracks"! However, I never have to commute during peak traffic. Much of the time I can work from home and much of the time I can sleep in my office which is completely set up for over-nighters. I refuse to drive in bumper to bumper traffic or when overly tired. Fortunately, I have that flexibility.

[tutusue]

[...]With no credit cards you pay no additional monthly payments. Is that good? Heck yeah but I've been in retail for three years now and generally when a customer pays only in cash, it typically means they didn't have a high enough credit score to get a credit card or for that matter qualify for a home mortgage, so in the long run they rent and pay no credit card fees every month.
[...]
For those who have poor credit ratings, and fit into this profile, that means qualifying for government subsidies. WIC provides an excellent way for low-income earners with young children (babies and toddlers) to get a couple gallons of milk and quarts of juice plus cheese and other products for free![...]
Personally I don't think it makes any difference if one is financially fit or financially fractured. If this small family pays cash instead of using credit cards (regardless of the reason why) and manages to live comfortably, by their standards, on $2500/mo. in Hawaii...good on 'em!!! Each of us will have our own standards that affect what income we need. I'd love to hear more about how they did it. Subsidies, government or otherwise, are a whole diff'rent ball o' wax and would greatly alter the reasons behind how this family made do.

[greentara]

Hawaii's cost of living is very comparable to SoCal in general and Orange County in particular. I'll narrow that down to Laguna Beach 'cuz that's my home town and I'm familiar with the costs. It costs me less to live in Hawaii than it did to live in Laguna.

Keep in mind, tho', that the Oahu areas you mention above equal long commute times if you work in town during normal business hours. Traffic has become horrendous. I live in Makaha (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?address=&city=Makaha&state=HI&zoom=6&style=2) (leeward coast...probably the least expensive real estate area on Oahu) and work in town. I live that far away because living oceanfront was affordable when I bought my condo during the mid 1980s. It's still affordable by Hawaii standards but a heckuva lot more expensive now. In mainland terminology it's considered "the wrong side of the tracks"! However, I never have to commute during peak traffic. Much of the time I can work from home and much of the time I can sleep in my office which is completely set up for over-nighters. I refuse to drive in bumper to bumper traffic or when overly tired. Fortunately, I have that flexibility.

My cost of living will be much less when I move to Kaua'i. Nothing is more expensive than San Francisco ~ even the gas is about the same. My rent will be much less, smaller place but that's perfectly ok with me. I'm sure I can find a job that pays comparable in the hotel/tourist business, which is very similar to the job I have now - (event manager in large convention center). However, I don't have children and would think that would make a big difference, if one had to pay school fees. I am constantly hearing the mantra, "oh I would love to live there but it's so expensive", not true for me. :D

PS ~ I love Laguna, favorite place in So Cal

[tutusue]

[...]PS ~ I love Laguna, favorite place in So Cal [...]
I Love SF (and Sausalito, Tiburon and Mill Valley), favorite place in No Cal!!! And, yes...both comparable to Hawaii when it comes to cost of living.

[craigwatanabe]

Sausalito is a nice place. Last time I went there I was impressed.

Kauai on the other hand...hmmm is the rent there cheap? considering the price for homes were higher than on Oahu.

What kind of job opportunities abound on Kauai? I had to travel to Kauai every year for the Gas Company and quite frankly there's not a whole lot going on over there plus general growth seemed to be spreading in two opposite directions.

I'm serious about those I encounter at Home Depot telling me about credit cards. When I finally convince them that if they want to build their dream house we can outfit it with all of their appliances at once with no interest or payments for one year. If you like you can pay it off slowly over the year without accruing interest. Same as cash. It makes sense. That way you can have your washer/dryer, microwave oven, stove sink refrigerator Plasma tv all at one time with a year to pay it down with no interest.

It's a no brainer and I eventually convince that customer to apply for the Home Depot consumer credit card to take advantage of this offer. As long as you pay it off in 12-months you don't pay any more than if you bought everything paycheck by paycheck for that same time period. The difference is that you get to use everything instead of wishing for it.

Then the credit check comes in and whoops not approved. To get denied for a credit card such as Home Depot means their rating was so bad they couldn't get a car loan from a loan shark practically. It happens.

So anyway let's see how can a family of four make it on $2500 per month?

Let's break it down...:)

[islandguy]

Rent $900 to live on base, ACTUAL AMOUNT DEDUCTED FROM OUR MILTARY PAY, not some imaginary amount of $$$ that is not real money, a real $12k a year ADDED to pay, and is taxable income...

Food $300 a month

Car, ZERO, we owned it (honda civic)

Insurance $349 every 6 months for full coverage

Cable internet $44 a month

Electric ZERO Water ZERO (remember, we are paying $900 a month RENT!)

Heath Insurance ZERO

$1244 every month in BILLS

Now, deduct what we MADE...

$2200 a month pay AFTER taxes,
divided by the number of hours each of us worked in army (60 hours a week)
so thats 60 hours a week for a total of 240 hours a month divided
by the take home pay of $2200 thats approx $9.17 a hour.

$956 a month left in spending $$$$.

As far as the credit question goes, we have excellent credit, because when we did use credit, we payed everything on time, and have no deliquencies....

And as far as savings, we have almost 100k CASH in the bank....

Who says you cannot SAVE $$$ being in the military, is the same person who is BROKE 1 week after payday!

[islandguy]

was looking at Hawaii real estate at oahua island and was amazed that prices are comparable 2 California homes. Ewa beach, Central oahua and leeward coast have homes under $500k . I didnt know that.

Think my dreams of living in Hawaii might come true sooner than I expected.


I am wondering if people are living a lifestyle that EXCEEDS their income...
you know...gotta have a NEW CAR, gotta have NEW DESIGNER CLOTHES, gotta EAT OUT 3x a week, gotta have the BLING BLING... you know... those kinda questions...

[greentara]

Craig:
Sausalito is a nice place. Last time I went there I was impressed.

Kauai on the other hand...hmmm is the rent there cheap? considering the price for homes were higher than on Oahu.

What kind of job opportunities abound on Kauai? I had to travel to Kauai every year for the Gas Company and quite frankly there's not a whole lot going on over there plus general growth seemed to be spreading in two opposite directions.

You are right Craig the price of homes on Kaua'i are higher than San Francisco. My situation is probably a little different. I have friends on Kaua'i that have rental property and I'm getting a deal that most people would not get. Also, I am in the hospitality business and already have a couple of job prospects in the hotel industry ~ not worried about finding a job, all I'm considering is how much do I want to work and how much play time do I want to enjoy the beauty of the Island. Not looking for night life just looking to lead a clean healthy life and peruse my dance, music, art, diving and spiritual development. I also fly free due to a family member that works for the airlines so if I need a dose of “City” I can always fly back, but I don’t see that happening very often.

PS. I have credit cards with a 0 balance ~ won't get caught in that trap again. But I think everyone needs a credit line of several thousand for emergencies ~ not for bling....;)

[greentara]

I'm serious about those I encounter at Home Depot telling me about credit cards. When I finally convince them that if they want to build their dream house we can outfit it with all of their appliances at once with no interest or payments for one year. If you like you can pay it off slowly over the year without accruing interest. Same as cash. It makes sense. That way you can have your washer/dryer, microwave oven, stove sink refrigerator Plasma tv all at one time with a year to pay it down with no interest.

And what happens if they have a balance after a year? Are they charged interest on the entire purchase? A lot can happen in a year...

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Rent $900 to live on base, ACTUAL AMOUNT DEDUCTED FROM OUR MILTARY PAY, not some imaginary amount of $$$ that is not real money, a real $12k a year ADDED to pay, and is taxable income...

Food $300 a month

Car, ZERO, we owned it (honda civic)

Insurance $349 every 6 months for full coverage

Cable internet $44 a month

Electric ZERO Water ZERO (remember, we are paying $900 a month RENT!)

Heath Insurance ZERO

$1244 every month in BILLS

Now, deduct what we MADE...

$2200 a month pay AFTER taxes,
divided by the number of hours each of us worked in army (60 hours a week)
so thats 60 hours a week for a total of 240 hours a month divided
by the take home pay of $2200 thats approx $9.17 a hour.

$956 a month left in spending $$$$.

As far as the credit question goes, we have excellent credit, because when we did use credit, we payed everything on time, and have no deliquencies....

And as far as savings, we have almost 100k CASH in the bank....

Who says you cannot SAVE $$$ being in the military, is the same person who is BROKE 1 week after payday!

Homes that sold for approx 260K @ 5% interest (a good median number for Hawaii for a decent 3bd, working class neighborhood that isn't centrally located near anything) is $1400/month, and that's without the additional house insurance and land tax factors, which is another $2-300/month.

If you own your own home, you pay for your own utilities

$200/month electric (provided you get those solar panels on that roof and propane in the stove and don't run a/c at all!)
$50/month water
$20/month sewer bill
don't forget propane, internet, phone, cable, if you do that tv thing.

2007 Reality Check: Try finding a 3bd home for $260K. Good luck at getting that 5% interest rate, too.

[tutusue]

Rent $900 to live on base, ACTUAL AMOUNT DEDUCTED FROM OUR MILTARY PAY, not some imaginary amount of $$$ that is not real money, a real $12k a year ADDED to pay, and is taxable income...

Food $300 a month

Car, ZERO, we owned it (honda civic)

Insurance $349 every 6 months for full coverage

Cable internet $44 a month

Electric ZERO Water ZERO (remember, we are paying $900 a month RENT!)

Heath Insurance ZERO

$1244 every month in BILLS
[...]
Just curious, how did you arrive at the $1244. figure?

[tutusue]

[...]And as far as savings, we have almost 100k CASH in the bank....[...]
Almost $100K...in the BANK...as in a savings account? Really? Hopefully it's in, at the very least, a money market account earning at least 5%. Or, is "cash in the bank" a simple, worry free choice for you? I mean no disrespect by this...just curious.
I am wondering if people are living a lifestyle that EXCEEDS their income...
you know...gotta have a NEW CAR, gotta have NEW DESIGNER CLOTHES, gotta EAT OUT 3x a week, gotta have the BLING BLING... you know... those kinda questions...
Of course...when one's spending exceeds their income there's gonna be a problem. Just look at our homeless situation. Many of the working homeless do not have the income you did while in Hawaii. They make less and often have larger families. And there are householders making one heckuva lot more than you who are living hand to mouth due to the reasons you state above.

You mentioned your rent was $900. for military housing. That's very inexpensive by Hawaii standards. Had you not been military and were thrust into the regular housing market it would've substantially eaten into that monthly discretionary income of yours.

How do you limit groceries to $300/mo for 3 people?

You and your wife obviously have a budget in place that works for both of you. Congratulations. This is an interesting thread. Thanks for starting it.
[...]And what happens if they have a balance after a year? Are they charged interest on the entire purchase? A lot can happen in a year...[...]
I don't know Home Depot's policy but I was shocked to find out that's how DiscoverCard works! I pay my bill oline in full each month. One month I made a typo and missed paying my entire balance by .03...yes...3 cents!!! I didn't discover it 'til the next month's statement when a finance charge appeared based on the full amount. Hmmm...maybe that's why it's called..."Discover" card?! :D Anyway, I called customer service immediately and they removed the charge.

Craig, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't HD, like others, hope there's a carry over balance as the income from interest is substantial?

[WindwardOahuRN]

Wait---did I see "on base"??

Now that changes things substantially, I think. Correct me if I am wrong.

Along with the zero zip nada health insurance thing....and probably more, if I had the time to investigate further.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Wait---did I see "on base"??

Now that changes things substantially, I think. Correct me if I am wrong.

Along with the zero zip nada health insurance thing....and probably more, if I had the time or inclination to investigate further.

[Menehune Man]

Okay now, how to truly say?
There are people living in Hawaii with no real incomes, to handouts (welfare and otherwise), to working multiple jobs,
to comfortably wealthy, to insanely rich!

I'm just glad I have food in the fridge for dinner... and a wife that's a great cook. :D

[greentara]

Okay now, how to truly say?
There are people living in Hawaii with no real incomes, to handouts (welfare and otherwise), to working multiple jobs,
to comfortably wealthy, to insanely rich!

I'm just glad I have food in the fridge for dinner... and a wife that's a great cook. :D


You got the right idea Menehune Man ~ give thanks for the small favors in life..."things" don't make you happy. The more you have the more you have to worry about. Simplify your life and you will find happiness. ;)

[greentara]

I don't know Home Depot's policy but I was shocked to find out that's how DiscoverCard works! I pay my bill oline in full each month. One month I made a typo and missed paying my entire balance by .03...yes...3 cents!!! I didn't discover it 'til the next month's statement when a finance charge appeared based on the full amount. Hmmm...maybe that's why it's called..."Discover" card?! :D Anyway, I called customer service immediately and they removed the charge.

Craig, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't HD, like others, hope there's a carry over balance as the income from interest is substantial?

Same thing happened to me with Dell Tutu, that's why I'm really carfull about this "no interest" thing. I just got a Discover card ~ no interest ~ so your post was a heads up for me ~ thanks.:)

[craigwatanabe]

For those who have the discipline to pay their bills on time, a consumer credit card actually works when coupled with no interest and no payments for 6 or 12 months.

Home Depot isn't in the debt business it's in the home improvement business. Let's say you have a construction loan. You have so many days (months) to complete your construction and convert that loan into a standard home mortgage.

If you're a owner/builder building your home paycheck to paycheck, in most cases you won't complete your construction by the mandated completion date according to the mortgage lender. If you cannot meet the deadline you face stiff penalties and subsequently you break the terms of your mortgage agreement and could possibly face a higher interest rate.

With the Home Depot consumer credit card or even the commercial credit card, you can buy all your building materials, appliances, floor and wall coverings at once (depending on your approved credit line), get your construction loan converted to a standard home mortage and escape any penalties.

Once you have a home mortage you can look into the possibility of refinancing, take the Home Depot credit debt and pay it off entirely with a home improvement equity loan and write that interest off completely.

With that completed you have a Home Depot credit card (with no annual fee) on hand for those unexpected emergencies such as a dead washer or refrigerator. Big ticket items that aren't normally factored in a family or home budget are easily taken care of with this line of credit. And you can defer those emergency purchases for half or a full year.

That's how you use these types of credit cards. Use it wisely and pay it off diligently and it can be a homeowners friend.

Now regarding how one can live on $2500...If you're military how in the world did you amass $100K in the bank? How long have you been in the military and what rank have you achieved because that is an incredable amount (and unwisely amount) to keep in a bank account where it's doing practically nothing for you earnings wise.

Plus you cannot compare "on-base" military housing to the real world outside in the civillian sector. And I assume that your military income covers COLA?

Plus you shop at the commissary or the base exchange. And you indicated you have no medical insurance costs either.

$300 per month food tab is really cheap at $100 per person per month that comes out to just under $4.00 per person per day. For your family that means $12 per day. That wouldn't even suffice for a basic dinner for my family let alone lunch and breakfast.

At $900 per month most civillian renters must pay at least one utility such as electric.

At first it seems you budget wisely then you indicate you have extenuating bills amounting to $1244. You have no credit card bills, you have no utility bills, you covered your car insurance, food, rent and basically every other incidental monthly fees required to run a family. You also indicate you have $100k in the bank. At $1244 earmarked as bills and the rest factored in for living expenses, that $2500 is depleted every month with nothing left for savings. How in the world do you amass six digits in a savings account?

[kthor]

And as far as savings, we have almost 100k CASH in the bank....

Who says you cannot SAVE $$$ being in the military, is the same person who is BROKE 1 week after payday!

Not Bad , not bad at all .. why not put that $100k in Mutual funds (fidelity - T-Rowe Price - Vanguard)? instead of da bank ?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Not Bad , not bad at all .. why not put that $100k in Mutual funds (fidelity - T-Rowe Price - Vanguard)? instead of da bank ?

for all we know, "in the bank" might be a figure of speech, because he might not want to share his asset allocation, if he got stuck with load funds, or nifty index funds, etc. ;)

[mikaela]

i have a permanent :( on my face after reading this thread...

a lot of replies seem so quick to chop islandguy down rather than being happy for him that he and his family were able to live comfortably on their income. i dunno... just weird reading it--maybe because i'm a newcomer?

i guess it's just the nature of discussion. *shrugs*

[islandguy]

i have a permanent :( on my face after reading this thread...

a lot of replies seem so quick to chop islandguy down rather than being happy for him that he and his family were able to live comfortably on their income. i dunno... just weird reading it--maybe because i'm a newcomer?

i guess it's just the nature of discussion. *shrugs*

Its probably because the doubters and haters dont have $100 in the bank, let alone $100k... just a guess...

[tikiyaki]

i have a permanent :( on my face after reading this thread...

a lot of replies seem so quick to chop islandguy down rather than being happy for him that he and his family were able to live comfortably on their income. i dunno... just weird reading it--maybe because i'm a newcomer?

i guess it's just the nature of discussion. *shrugs*

I didn't see as much "chopping" as curious inquiries.....

[craigwatanabe]

These are more than just curious inquiries because if he's doing something right it is more likely an exception and by telling someone coming to Hawaii that he can make ends meet with a mere $2500 per month for a family of three and put money in the bank to the tune of $100,000.oo without indicating how he is doing it plus not initially indicating how major monthly incidentals are being paid for by the US Government, he's actually doing a major disservice to those who want to come here and believe after reading his post that they too can make it on $2500 per month.

For practical reasons, it can't be done. Maybe living frugally on $2500 can get you by, but your quality of life isn't gonna be reflective of disposable cash assets amounting to $100,000 in the bank.

Show me the numbers and break it down.

[tutusue]

i have a permanent :( on my face after reading this thread...

a lot of replies seem so quick to chop islandguy down rather than being happy for him that he and his family were able to live comfortably on their income. i dunno... just weird reading it--maybe because i'm a newcomer?

i guess it's just the nature of discussion. *shrugs*

Its probably because the doubters and haters dont have $100 in the bank, let alone $100k... just a guess...

I didn't see as much "chopping" as curious inquiries.....
I have to agree with tikiyaki. I saw no "chopping". Doubting is healthy, to be expected and the reason questions were asked. Craig is probably the most qualified to respond in this thread as he is "self made" and understands the complexities of financial matters.

If islandguy posts a summary of his finances then he should expect people to doubt and ask "how"! For the most part, islandguy's numbers don't jive but that doesn't mean the numbers are incorrect. It just means there appears to be a missing piece to the puzzle...like equity from a home that was sold, an inheritance, length of savings history...something along those lines. And, if islandguy truly has "The Secret" <g>, we all wanna know what it is! Part of the puzzle is already known...military benefits.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread...it's an interesting one. The doubters can learn from those with experience and...vice versa! This has been a very civil thread! :D

[Pongs]

hmm I too, am very interested in how islandguy managed it. Seems to me $2500 may not always be enough even for a family of 1! living in any major city--rent being the #1 expense.

Pointers please?!? :o (besides putting away the credit cards)

[craigwatanabe]

Set up a budget and stick to it.

Many that fail financially or even have a hard time living paycheck to paycheck don't run a budget.

Many that feel that their income isn't enough really don't see the fact that it it their lifestyle that is killing them, not their bills.

Lunch is a perfect example of how one squanders their hard-earned income. Let's say you eat everyday at work at a cost of a plate lunch.

A typical lunch can be as much as $8.00 at McDonalds or higher at any of our finer eateries around Downtown Honolulu, but let's use $8.00 as our daily lunch allotment. That's $40 per week (Monday thru Friday). That's $160 per month! For some that's their monthly parking pass.

Then there's the sneak snack time at the vending machines. If a soda costs $0.75 and you drink two of em a day plus a 50-cent candybar, that's $2.00 per day or $56 per month.

Now we're up to $216 per month in just eating at work. And that doesn't include the occasional after work suck em up tab.

How much do you pay for gasoline? Do you carpool? Do you take the bus? Do you pay for monthly parking? All of these add up.

If you carpooled every other day you'd save roughly 50% on your monthly gas bill. If you live out in Mililani and commuted everyday to work in Downtown Honolulu your fuel bill would be a good $40 a week if you own an SUV (and I saw a lot of em heading town bound on the H-1). That's another $160 a month on gas. Carpool and cut that in half and you save $80 a month on gas.

Add that to the amount you eat and now you're at $296.00 per month in wasted spending. THAT'S ALMOST $300 A MONTH!

What is $300 a month? How about a car payment that you just can't seem to keep up with. How about those two credit cards that seem to come due between paychecks?

That's money you could have used to drop debt but instead squandered it needlessly and now you have creditors calling you on your cell phone racking up and taking away those precious free minutes.

Our family used to have Pizza Fridays at Pizza Hut. That weekly tab ran about $35.00. When I realized we were spending $140.00 a month on Pizza I realized we could do better so that ended.

When I realized we were eating out on the weekends at McDonalds because we were too tired to cook, that ended that $180.00 per month waste.

I used to go to the most convenient ATM machine and accepted that $1.50 surcharge. At four times a week that amounted to $24 a month. Instead I decided to try giving myself a single weekly allowance and took cash from an ATM I banked with. That saved me $18 a month in ATM fees.

What is $18 bucks worth per month? How about three gallons of milk plus enough left over for a can of Nestles Quik mix for the kids to replace the case of soda every other week, another savings.

The savings are small but when you add it up even $18 saved every month amounts to $216 per year. Imagine that paying another bank $216 a year for not banking there. Doesn't make ANY sense at all...but how many of us actually do it? Lots of us. And Islandboy is right about one thing. How many of us actually have $100 in the bank? By doing this one simple task I just mentioned, you'll not have $100 but over $200 in the bank. Not a whole lot but hey it's a start to saving money and in 100 years even you too can have $100,000 in the bank :D

By living by a budget you see how you spend your money and will make those corrections to save a few bucks here and there.

There's lots of ways to save money. One of the biggest is to buy late model cars and not new. Wait one year and let the original owner pay for the depreciation of that new car.

If you can move your credit debt to those zero-% for one year introductory rate credit cards. When that card is about to come due for interest, move it again and keep that debt from accruing interest. If you're like most you have a Providian or Capital One credit card or even a Hawaiian Miles credit card.

And like most you probably went past due one month and suddenly you're into that 23% to 29% high interest APR rate as a penalty. Move them over to an introductory card with 0% interest and pay it off interest-free! When the introductory term comes full term, move it again.

Why let these creditors abuse your income...use their tools and make it work for you on their nickle.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Its probably because the doubters and haters dont have $100 in the bank, let alone $100k... just a guess...

I cannot find a single doubter or hater on this thread, and it would quite suprise you the range of net worth to be found on this forum.

[GnosticWarrior]

CW, that was some very practical advice!!!

Interesting article in the Honolulu Advertiser (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Apr/11/ln/FP704110404.html) that said Hawaii has the highest percentage of Millionaire households in the nation and also the lowest percentage of people living in poverty! I was actually kind of surprised to learn this. But, we must be doing something right!

[Miulang]

CW, that was some very practical advice!!!

Interesting article in the Honolulu Advertiser (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Apr/11/ln/FP704110404.html) that said Hawaii has the highest percentage of Millionaire households in the nation and also the lowest percentage of people living in poverty! I was actually kind of surprised to learn this. But, we must be doing something right!
The "doing right" part is due in part to the large number of wealthy retirees who have chosen to make Hawai'i their retirement homes, not because the average worker in Hawai'i (who very often needs to work 2 jobs to survive) is making money hand over fist. They calculated the figures after excluding the cost of real estate, which would have made even more residents appear to be "millionaires" if that cost was left in.:(

Miulang

[greentara]

Set up a budget and stick to it.

Many that fail financially or even have a hard time living paycheck to paycheck don't run a budget.

Many that feel that their income isn't enough really don't see the fact that it it their lifestyle that is killing them, not their bills.

Lunch is a perfect example of how one squanders their hard-earned income. Let's say you eat everyday at work at a cost of a plate lunch.

A typical lunch can be as much as $8.00 at McDonalds or higher at any of our finer eateries around Downtown Honolulu, but let's use $8.00 as our daily lunch allotment. That's $40 per week (Monday thru Friday). That's $160 per month! For some that's their monthly parking pass.

Then there's the sneak snack time at the vending machines. If a soda costs $0.75 and you drink two of em a day plus a 50-cent candybar, that's $2.00 per day or $56 per month.

Now we're up to $216 per month in just eating at work. And that doesn't include the occasional after work suck em up tab.

How much do you pay for gasoline? Do you carpool? Do you take the bus? Do you pay for monthly parking? All of these add up.

If you carpooled every other day you'd save roughly 50% on your monthly gas bill. If you live out in Mililani and commuted everyday to work in Downtown Honolulu your fuel bill would be a good $40 a week if you own an SUV (and I saw a lot of em heading town bound on the H-1). That's another $160 a month on gas. Carpool and cut that in half and you save $80 a month on gas.

Add that to the amount you eat and now you're at $296.00 per month in wasted spending. THAT'S ALMOST $300 A MONTH!

What is $300 a month? How about a car payment that you just can't seem to keep up with. How about those two credit cards that seem to come due between paychecks?

That's money you could have used to drop debt but instead squandered it needlessly and now you have creditors calling you on your cell phone racking up and taking away those precious free minutes.

Our family used to have Pizza Fridays at Pizza Hut. That weekly tab ran about $35.00. When I realized we were spending $140.00 a month on Pizza I realized we could do better so that ended.

When I realized we were eating out on the weekends at McDonalds because we were too tired to cook, that ended that $180.00 per month waste.

I used to go to the most convenient ATM machine and accepted that $1.50 surcharge. At four times a week that amounted to $24 a month. Instead I decided to try giving myself a single weekly allowance and took cash from an ATM I banked with. That saved me $18 a month in ATM fees.

What is $18 bucks worth per month? How about three gallons of milk plus enough left over for a can of Nestles Quik mix for the kids to replace the case of soda every other week, another savings.

The savings are small but when you add it up even $18 saved every month amounts to $216 per year. Imagine that paying another bank $216 a year for not banking there. Doesn't make ANY sense at all...but how many of us actually do it? Lots of us. And Islandboy is right about one thing. How many of us actually have $100 in the bank? By doing this one simple task I just mentioned, you'll not have $100 but over $200 in the bank. Not a whole lot but hey it's a start to saving money and in 100 years even you too can have $100,000 in the bank :D

By living by a budget you see how you spend your money and will make those corrections to save a few bucks here and there.

There's lots of ways to save money. One of the biggest is to buy late model cars and not new. Wait one year and let the original owner pay for the depreciation of that new car.

If you can move your credit debt to those zero-% for one year introductory rate credit cards. When that card is about to come due for interest, move it again and keep that debt from accruing interest. If you're like most you have a Providian or Capital One credit card or even a Hawaiian Miles credit card.

And like most you probably went past due one month and suddenly you're into that 23% to 29% high interest APR rate as a penalty. Move them over to an introductory card with 0% interest and pay it off interest-free! When the introductory term comes full term, move it again.

Why let these creditors abuse your income...use their tools and make it work for you on their nickle.

Excellent advice Craig, because I have followed most of your tips I have a nice little cushion to enable my move. I have not paid interest on a credit card for the past year, they are paid off monthly or they are on a no interest for a year plan. My computer and digital camera from Dell ;) were paid off with no interest too. It can be done but it takes discipline and definitely bring your lunch, better for you and saves so much money. :D

[GnosticWarrior]

The "doing right" part is due in part to the large number of wealthy retirees who have chosen to make Hawai'i their retirement homes, not because the average worker in Hawai'i (who very often needs to work 2 jobs to survive) is making money hand over fist.

Yes, the avg. worker in Hawaii may not be making money hand over fist but they might have enough of the discipline that islandguy and Craig was talking about and are "doing right" to at least stay out of poverty and some might be home grown millionaires too. Just thought the Adverstiser article could have been the economic data to disprove some myths of how "bad" things are here in Hawaii. It might actually prove how "good" things are and we have lot more to smile about than frown. :)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Save for the last five years, I had spent my entire adult life living in Hawai'i's bear economy. Have you survived negative equity and balloon payments forthcoming? Do you have a trade or two under your belt? Have you seen the brain drain and what it did when your classmates are splitting for a better life, and you fight to stay in a place you love, especially when that place you love is country? Do you realize that many of our districts (and hell, whole islands) are federally-designated empowerment zones, because of economic adversity? If your washer breaks down, do you have a washboard and know how to handwash your clothes? And can you live like this while still making sure to fund your IRA? Are you grateful that you have enough fruit trees in your yard that your family will never starve?

I will never cut down my ulu tree, get rid of my washboard, or stop paying myself first. The late 1980s through 1990s innoculated the hell out of me; lessons I would never trade for anything.

[Miulang]

Yes, the avg. worker in Hawaii may not be making money hand over fist but they might have enough of the discipline that islandguy and Craig was talking about and are "doing right" to at least stay out of poverty and some might be home grown millionaires too. Just thought the Adverstiser article could have been the economic data to disprove some myths of how "bad" things are here in Hawaii. It might actually prove how "good" things are and we have lot more to smile about than frown. :)
Has it occurred to anyone that because Hawai'i does boast of the highest percentage of millionaires per capita and consistently one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country, that this might also encourage disenchanted people living on CONUS to want to move there, thus crowding out even more of the current residents?

Miulang

[greentara]

Save for the last five years, I had spent my entire adult life living in Hawai'i's bear economy. Have you survived negative equity and balloon payments forthcoming? Do you have a trade or two under your belt? Have you seen the brain drain and what it did when your classmates are splitting for a better life, and you fight to stay in a place you love, especially when that place you love is country? Do you realize that many of our districts (and hell, whole islands) are federally-designated empowerment zones, because of economic adversity? If your washer breaks down, do you have a washboard and know how to handwash your clothes? And can you live like this while still making sure to fund your IRA? Are you grateful that you have enough fruit trees in your yard that your family will never starve?

I will never cut down my ulu tree, get rid of my washboard, or stop paying myself first. The late 1980s through 1990s innoculated the hell out of me; lessons I would never trade for anything.


You are so right, learned to wash my cloths in a wash tub outdoors, roast an Ulu, (called breadfruit in Jamaica) on an open fire, lived with out indoor plumbing and electricity for a while. Best lessons of my life would not trade it for all the money on earth because I KNOW I can do it if I have to...life takes on a different meaning when you know you can survive with out the "things" provided by the modern world.

ps: would never cut down an Ulu tree ~ favorite food...as a matter of fact would never cut down any fruit bearing tree.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

well, my husband insists that our ulu tree has nefarious designs on our windshields and paint jobs. I tell him, "just move the car!"

[greentara]

well, my husband insists that our ulu tree has nefarious designs on our windshields and paint jobs. I tell him, "just move the car!"

Good for you when the going gets rough ya can't eat the car.;)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

yeah, but you cannot ride an ulu to work.

[greentara]

yeah, but you cannot ride an ulu to work.

that's assuming you have gas and a job available...:p the way this world is going you can never assume life will go on as usual.

[Miulang]

yeah, but you cannot ride an ulu to work.
Can! All you need to do is find somebody with a car who likes ulu and exchange that for a ride.:)

Miulang

[greentara]

Can! All you need to do is find somebody with a car who likes ulu and exchange that for a ride.:)

Miulang

Problem solved!!!!:D I love a creative thinker.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

let's not forget the economics in play. How much ulu for how much of a ride? Additionally, we have timetables and schedules to consider. For example, being at the mercy of the carholder's available time and diligence of maintaining said vehicle as well as my tree's personal cycle. Brokering the ulu<->vehicle exchange in a responsible and successful manner in the long term requires a business plan.

[Leo Lakio]

And environmental impact statements.

[Miulang]

let's not forget the economics in play. How much ulu for how much of a ride? Additionally, we have timetables and schedules to consider. For example, being at the mercy of the carholder's available time and diligence of maintaining said vehicle as well as my tree's personal cycle. Brokering the ulu<->vehicle exchange in a responsible and successful manner in the long term requires a business plan.
And crafting that business plan might require an MBA!:D (Whoever said "simple living" was going to get so complicated????)

Miulang

[Keanu]

Can! All you need to do is find somebody with a car who likes ulu and exchange that for a ride.:)

Miulang

Yeah but then you'd have to sit amongst the empty Budweiser cans in the bed of the old ford truck while making sure not to sit on the "macheti". ;)