Mac vs PC

[nikki]

I'm thinking of changing to Mac for home/personal use. Anyone here have a Mac? What are the main differences between Mac and PC, and pros and cons? Thanks!

[Pomai]

See this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHO8l-Bd1O4).

[gchun]

Nikki-

What are your reasons for considering the switch? I use both, depending on the task.

Here are some pros & cons

Mac Pros:
Good integrated multimedia software (iLife)
Less hardware incompatibility issues

Mac Cons:
Pricer than PC
Less software available than PC
smaller user base than PC
less hardware options than PC

PC Pro:
Less expensive, more bang for the buck
More options available for hardware, software
larger user base

PC Cons:
Installation & troubleshooting can be more difficult & involved
hardware compatibility issues (Although this has improved significantly with newer operating systems)
More prone to virus/spyware issues (but Macs are not immune and probably will have the same problems soon)

For general use (email, internet, word processing) it's a toss up between platforms. They perform similarly, so it's up to your preference in OS/hardware and price.

Hope this helps-
Garry

[tikiyaki]

I'd say it totally depends on what you're using your computer for.

Macs tend to be more savvy for creative stuff like recording music, video etc, but PC's have great stuff for that too.

The one real pro is that Macs are pretty immune to viruses.

[nikki]

See this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHO8l-Bd1O4).

Hah! Funny!!

[nikki]

Thanks for the info, GChun... very helpful.

[cynsaligia]

I'm thinking of changing to Mac for home/personal use. Anyone here have a Mac? What are the main differences between Mac and PC, and pros and cons? Thanks!

most of the folks at my work's IT dept think of me as one of their higher-than-average-knowledge type user. my beau, on the other hand, is a certified computer geek (literally). my beau's mom is a woman in her fifties who sometimes calls the beau for help working the DVR and is as knowledgeable about computers as today's grade school kids are about typerwriters.

anyway, in the last three years, the beau bought his mom a computer, himself a computer, and me a computer.

the beau bought himself a laptop PC. he's had to wipe it twice due to some problems that i would have, prior to meeting the beau, taken the thing to the computer priests and offered up prayers in the hopes that the computer gods would see fit to resuscitate it.

then beau bought me a mac mini. i previously owned a PC and i have waaaaaay less trouble with the mac mini than i ever did with the PC. very friendly to the non-computer-geek, but if you use a PC at work and a mac at home like i do, you have a few minutes when you switch computers that you and your fingers hafta "switch gears." what's nice tho is that if you don't have your own in-house computer geek like you do at work or like i do with my beau, the mac is rather nice to have bcs it's relatively problem free.

beau bought his mom an imac. remember what i said about her calling the beau re the dvr? well, she's called him more with questions about the dvr than the computer.

hope that helps!

[buzz1941]

Macs work right out of the box and do so beautifully

PCs don't. That simple.

[tutusue]

Macs all the way! That said...I've never even touched a PC so have no frame of reference. If I can use a Mac...ANYONE can! :D PZ understands!

[craigwatanabe]

I'm a PC guy and a Republican so I'll just keep my mouth shut. :)

[Jonah K]

I'm thinking of changing to Mac for home/personal use. Anyone here have a Mac? What are the main differences between Mac and PC, and pros and cons? Thanks!
Get a Mac. With the advent of Apple's Boot Camp (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/) and Parallels Desktop (http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/), the Mac can run Windows software (often better than many PCs). :cool:

[Paul Ogata]

I'm a Macintosh guy, and an Apple fan. You want ease of use, simplicity in set-up and a great looking product? Get a Mac.

My wife recently chose to work from home, but her office uses PC's. So she needed to get one that had remote desktop capabilities. We ended up getting a Toshiba Satellite from Best Buy. But before we opened it, we wanted to know exactly what kind of Windows Vista was in it, so that she could upgrade to the version of Vista that allowed Remote Desktop. (Here is problem number one: multiple versions of the same OS release?)

Once we found out which version of Vista we had, we found out that we had to spend $159 to upgrade to Vista Ultimate either via download or snail mail. But the laptop may or may not have included a "Windows Upgrade Anytime" CD which would have us to download the upgrade. (This is what we wanted to do.) Calls to Best Buy revealed that some computers came with the Ugrade CD, and some didn't. It was all up to the manufacturer if they wanted to include the upgradeable version of Vista. The Best Buy guy says they didn't know which was included. Several calls to Toshiba's "Customer Service" line were routed around and disconnected.

The moral of the story? Get a Mac. Apple makes the whole widget, as Steve Jobs is fond of saying. This means they make the computer, they make the software, and they make sure everything just works. And it does.

[tutusue]

Apple's ProCare (http://www.apple.com/retail/procare/) rocks! I wouldn't be without it.

[Sharks Cove Wahine]

I use PCs at work and wouldn't use anything but a Mac at home. I used to work in IT doing simple computer repair and such at work and came to love not only the ease of use a Mac has but it doesn't get the viruses, blue screens of death, random fatal errors etc.

If you are not into downloading drivers for you cameras, scanners, printers and so on the Mac is the way to go. I bought a Cannon Rebel and my Mac was ready to go with out loading anything, plug and play all the way!

[Paul Ogata]

Apple's ProCare (http://www.apple.com/retail/procare/) rocks! I wouldn't be without it.

Plus, don't you get VIP status at the Genius Bar?

[tutusue]

Plus, don't you get VIP status at the Genius Bar?
That's one of the many reasons it rocks!

[manoageek]

I switched from PC to Mac a few months ago and I couldn't be happier. I got a mac book pro.

[tikiyaki]

Macs all the way! That said...I've never even touched a PC so have no frame of reference. If I can use a Mac...ANYONE can! :D PZ understands!

Same here....tried a friend's PC once or twice, but my first computer purchase was a mac.

[greentara]

Macs work right out of the box and do so beautifully

PCs don't. That simple.

They do if you buy from Dell...I've had mine for two years ~ love it ~ and the only thing I needed to download was ITunes for the Pod. If I bought a new laptop I would consider Mac because my needs are mostly media, but for now I'm very happy with my Dell PC. :)

[craigwatanabe]

I'm a Macintosh guy, and an Apple fan.

No wonder you're in the comedy biz:D

Okay now regarding Dell. That was a poor excuse for a PC man! I bought a Dell for one of my college kids here on the Big ISland. When it crapped out and need to be sent back to Dell, they sent me a shipping box thru UPS.

When I picked up the box the woman there told me they get 30 of these shipping boxes for Dell per month. AND THAT'S ONLY IN THE HILO AREA!

Imagine Honolulu or even L.A. for that matter. As far as I'm concerned, Dell sucks. I'd rather buy a Toshiba or less yet, an HP than a Dell. I'm sorry as one who fixes computers, I see more Dells come to me for repair. HP is a close second though. If you're gonna buy a Dell, buy their extended service plan because you will use it:D

[greentara]

No wonder you're in the comedy biz:D

Okay now regarding Dell. That was a poor excuse for a PC man! I bought a Dell for one of my college kids here on the Big ISland. When it crapped out and need to be sent back to Dell, they sent me a shipping box thru UPS.

When I picked up the box the woman there told me they get 30 of these shipping boxes for Dell per month. AND THAT'S ONLY IN THE HILO AREA!

Imagine Honolulu or even L.A. for that matter. As far as I'm concerned, Dell sucks. I'd rather buy a Toshiba or less yet, an HP than a Dell. I'm sorry as one who fixes computers, I see more Dells come to me for repair. HP is a close second though. If you're gonna buy a Dell, buy their extended service plan because you will use it:D

Wow, sorry you had such a negative experience with Dell but my laptop has been working just fine for over two years now. I also use a Dell at work and I have no complaints there either. The reason I decided on Dell was because of the research that my son-in-law did when he was buying computers for his law firm; he said Dell was the best price and best performance reputation. I did own a Toshiba (my first lap top) and I made almost $300 on a class action suit because of a recall ~ the disk drive was faulty. I must say I do have issues with Dell's Indian "Help" desk good thing I only had to contact them twice, that was enough. :D They drove me crazy!!!!!

[joshuatree]

No wonder you're in the comedy biz:D

Okay now regarding Dell. That was a poor excuse for a PC man! I bought a Dell for one of my college kids here on the Big ISland. When it crapped out and need to be sent back to Dell, they sent me a shipping box thru UPS.

When I picked up the box the woman there told me they get 30 of these shipping boxes for Dell per month. AND THAT'S ONLY IN THE HILO AREA!

Imagine Honolulu or even L.A. for that matter. As far as I'm concerned, Dell sucks. I'd rather buy a Toshiba or less yet, an HP than a Dell. I'm sorry as one who fixes computers, I see more Dells come to me for repair. HP is a close second though. If you're gonna buy a Dell, buy their extended service plan because you will use it:D

Dell is sorta like the Walmart of PCs, they are probably the most aggressive in trying to cut any costs out of the PC and it shows. Last I heard, they rerouted some of those tech calls back to call centers in the US, not because of backlash but because of quality issues.

And to be fair, PCs see more viruses and worms because most hackers target PCs. So the rise of the Mac and Apple can be a curse in some ways. As they become more mainstream, expect to see more hackers targeting them.

[craigwatanabe]

Wow, sorry you had such a negative experience with Dell but my laptop has been working just fine for over two years now. I also use a Dell at work and I have no complaints there either. The reason I decided on Dell was because of the research that my son-in-law did when he was buying computers for his law firm; he said Dell was the best price and best performance reputation. I did own a Toshiba (my first lap top) and I made almost $300 on a class action suit because of a recall ~ the disk drive was faulty. I must say I do have issues with Dell's Indian "Help" desk good thing I only had to contact them twice, that was enough. :D They drove me crazy!!!!!



You've only had them for two years...wait until next year when the power supply craps out and you have to buy a DELL power supply because a standard third party (better than Dell) PSU won't fit unless you modify the Dell computer case. BTW Dell uses 230-Watt power supplies, grossly underrated for DVD burning or gaming graphics or even Pentium 4 power needs. BTW that's for desktops. The laptop PSU's are okay.

Also the memory modules they use tend to go south after a few years for reasons I still can't figure out.

And lastly, the motherboards end up cracking due to expansion. Even their IDE cables that route the hard drive or the optical disks tend to fail sooner than most aftermarket cables.

In order to price Dells cheaper than what most system builders can build one from scratch, Dell uses inferior products when assembling a computer. About the only thing good I can say about Dell is that they use damned near bulletproof cases. But then again most people will only look at the cover and not the content.

Dell's laptops fair better than their desktops but in either case, they skimp on quality control in order to optain really low prices.

Talk to me in about a year and tell me Dell is the bomb. At 2-years ANY computer should give you trouble-free performance. I'd sell it before three years come up while it's still running great.

[jkpescador]

We have a Dell Frankenstein at work. It's "Frank" because so many parts have been swapped in that guy and it still doesn't work good. I never understood why Dell just didn't send us a new box and took the old one back. To me they would have just saved time and money.

We also aren't buying Dell.

We have a Mac to replace the Dell.

Mac and HP at home. We are moving to be more Mac centric. Also bought a Mac Mini for my mother-in-law. She does not call me like my Mom who has a Dell. I keep telling my Mom to call Dell support. There are just some things that you can't troubleshoot over the phone. :)

[greentara]

You've only had them for two years...wait until next year when the power supply craps out and you have to buy a DELL power supply because a standard third party (better than Dell) PSU won't fit unless you modify the Dell computer case. BTW Dell uses 230-Watt power supplies, grossly underrated for DVD burning or gaming graphics or even Pentium 4 power needs. BTW that's for desktops. The laptop PSU's are okay.

Also the memory modules they use tend to go south after a few years for reasons I still can't figure out.

And lastly, the motherboards end up cracking due to expansion. Even their IDE cables that route the hard drive or the optical disks tend to fail sooner than most aftermarket cables.

In order to price Dells cheaper than what most system builders can build one from scratch, Dell uses inferior products when assembling a computer. About the only thing good I can say about Dell is that they use damned near bulletproof cases. But then again most people will only look at the cover and not the content.

Dell's laptops fair better than their desktops but in either case, they skimp on quality control in order to optain really low prices.

Talk to me in about a year and tell me Dell is the bomb. At 2-years ANY computer should give you trouble-free performance. I'd sell it before three years come up while it's still running great.

Well, that certainly is depressing, and I guess you would know since you are a "computer guy" ~ now that you have ruined my day, what do you recommend for my next purchase, since I only have a short time left with my Dell.:(

[greentara]

You've only had them for two years...wait until next year when the power supply craps out and you have to buy a DELL power supply because a standard third party (better than Dell) PSU won't fit unless you modify the Dell computer case. BTW Dell uses 230-Watt power supplies, grossly underrated for DVD burning or gaming graphics or even Pentium 4 power needs. BTW that's for desktops. The laptop PSU's are okay.

Also the memory modules they use tend to go south after a few years for reasons I still can't figure out.

And lastly, the motherboards end up cracking due to expansion. Even their IDE cables that route the hard drive or the optical disks tend to fail sooner than most aftermarket cables.

In order to price Dells cheaper than what most system builders can build one from scratch, Dell uses inferior products when assembling a computer. About the only thing good I can say about Dell is that they use damned near bulletproof cases. But then again most people will only look at the cover and not the content.

Dell's laptops fair better than their desktops but in either case, they skimp on quality control in order to optain really low prices.

Talk to me in about a year and tell me Dell is the bomb. At 2-years ANY computer should give you trouble-free performance. I'd sell it before three years come up while it's still running great.

Well, that certainly is depressing, and I guess you would know since you are a "computer guy" ~ now that you have ruined my day, what do you recommend for my next purchase, since I only have a short time left with my Dell.:(

[craigwatanabe]

Take it out for a farewell dinner and sell it before it depreciates beyond worth or dies before hand.

I build my own and pick motherboards that will stay current for a few years. That way even my three year old "Project" will be Vista Capable when I'm ready to buy it.

Hey it's been giving you over 2-years of loyal service...that's longer than some personal relationships!

But I'd cut my losses and dump it before it burns you and it will...

[kdramafan]

You've only had them for two years...wait until next year when the power supply craps out and you have to buy a DELL power supply because a standard third party (better than Dell) PSU won't fit unless you modify the Dell computer case. BTW Dell uses 230-Watt power supplies, grossly underrated for DVD burning or gaming graphics or even Pentium 4 power needs. BTW that's for desktops. The laptop PSU's are okay.

Also the memory modules they use tend to go south after a few years for reasons I still can't figure out.

And lastly, the motherboards end up cracking due to expansion. Even their IDE cables that route the hard drive or the optical disks tend to fail sooner than most aftermarket cables.

In order to price Dells cheaper than what most system builders can build one from scratch, Dell uses inferior products when assembling a computer. About the only thing good I can say about Dell is that they use damned near bulletproof cases. But then again most people will only look at the cover and not the content.

Dell's laptops fair better than their desktops but in either case, they skimp on quality control in order to optain really low prices.

Talk to me in about a year and tell me Dell is the bomb. At 2-years ANY computer should give you trouble-free performance. I'd sell it before three years come up while it's still running great.

I have 2 Dell Desktop computers. One is over 3 years old and the other one I had it now for 18 months. Not one problem with either one. The power supply in the newer one is 350 watts. In both of them I have internal and external dvd burners. Both internal dvd burners as well as both large HD's in both of them are hooked up using SATA. Now I know one thing that was bad about the Dells and that was the type of DVD-Rom and Dvd Burners they were installing in their desktops. I know the Dvd-burners were Philips. Even though they were offering me a free dvd burner upgrade both times I purchased my Dells I pass up the offer. I installed Pioneer, LG, NEC and the last one was a 20x Lite-On.

Now lets talk about my Moms HP computers. Her HP she brought about 3-4 years ago the power supply died after 6 months. We took it back to Comp USA and they told us that is a known problem with this model. I said how come never said some thing about this when we brought that particular model. We are told only now they are finding out about this since more and more people are having power supply problems with this model. I tell them maybe you or HP should have a recall or something. So they replace the PS only to fail less than a year later. They replace it once again.

Not about a year later she buys a new HP 13 months later the HD starts acting up. I go with her to Comp USA. Good thing she purchased a extended warranty. Because it would of cost her money to replace the HD since the original warranty is only 12 months. They test the HD and says it's fine must be a virus. So they reformat the drive and do a fresh install on it. Take it home the next day. One day later she starts having problems with the HD. It boots up real slow. Now this just after a new restore has been done to the HD. Also about every other time she turns her computer it ask her if she wants to boot up in safe mode. So back we go and I am pissed as hell. I tell the idiots that the HD is bad. They boot it up at the store and it boots up fine. They look at me like I am a idiot. I told them it boots up fine sometimes and sometimes she has all these problems. So they are going to keep it over night. Which turned into a week until we went back and starting bitching about how long it takes to replace the HD. Hell I could of changed it myself and gotten her a bigger one. They finally bring it out and say it was a bad HD. I told them we won't be buying any more computers from them.

[craigwatanabe]

HP sucks too. I did say that didin't I:D

Anyway even at 380-watts you're still running under what I would consider safe. 400-watts or better in my book.

How much did your mom pay for the extended warranty? Hopefully not more than the cost of a replacement HD. :)

[mel]

I don't know what party has to do with this, but I'll declare that I am Republican and use and own Macs. Several over the years.

However where I work we are stuck in Windows hell, and several times there has been hell to pay with viral infections attacking the entire Windows network.

Lucky I bring my Mac laptop with me to work so I can still do some work while the Windows stuff is going crazy.

The good thing about Microsoft's and Apple's agreement of 1997 (and several follow-ups throughout the years) is that most of the MS office suite work seamlessly between the Windows and Mac versions... which means the Word and Excel files can swap from one platform to another without much trouble... at least on later versions of the Mac OS.

As for Dell, the workplace has them and we've had mixed results. I've seen brand new Dells die in weeks and some old ones chugging along without much hardware problems. I think your mileage will vary.

[Cameron]

I don't know what party has to do with this, but I'll declare that I am Republican and use and own Macs. Several over the years.

However where I work we are stuck in Windows hell, and several times there has been hell to pay with viral infections attacking the entire Windows network.

Lucky I bring my Mac laptop with me to work so I can still do some work while the Windows stuff is going crazy.

The good thing about Microsoft's and Apple's agreement of 1997 (and several follow-ups throughout the years) is that most of the MS office suite work seamlessly between the Windows and Mac versions... which means the Word and Excel files can swap from one platform to another without much trouble... at least on later versions of the Mac OS.

As for Dell, the workplace has them and we've had mixed results. I've seen brand new Dells die in weeks and some old ones chugging along without much hardware problems. I think your mileage will vary.
I would get a mac, but:

I HATE THOSE DAMN "GET A MAC" ADS.

No thank you Mr. Snarky Mac guy always, ripping on poor Mr. PC, spreading your FUD.

(I have more to say than that, but I'd just be wasting breath)

[craigwatanabe]

You know with those smug Apple ads running now, it's just a matter of time when Mac's will feel the brunt of a hacker. Smugness wasn't one of Apple's traits in the past, now it is. It reeks even when you walk into an Apple store. It's like you have to be hip to be seen inside one.

[buzz1941]

I had an old Mac Plus in the front window of the aerospace museum at the airport. I set up a repeating slide show on the machine and it ran for 2.5 years, 24 hours a day, without once crashing.

[MonkeyMan]

You know with those smug Apple ads running now, it's just a matter of time when Mac's will feel the brunt of a hacker. Smugness wasn't one of Apple's traits in the past, now it is. It reeks even when you walk into an Apple store. It's like you have to be hip to be seen inside one.

Bring it on.

[tikiyaki]

You know with those smug Apple ads running now, it's just a matter of time when Mac's will feel the brunt of a hacker. Smugness wasn't one of Apple's traits in the past, now it is. It reeks even when you walk into an Apple store. It's like you have to be hip to be seen inside one.

What, Craig, you're not HIP ? You're Craigwatanabee fer chrissakes. :D
Buy an Apple Craig, I guarantee you won't regret it.
Oh, and your 6 kids will love you for it

[joshuatree]

I had an old Mac Plus in the front window of the aerospace museum at the airport. I set up a repeating slide show on the machine and it ran for 2.5 years, 24 hours a day, without once crashing.

Once had a chance to pull up stats on a Cisco router in a very remote area. Uptime, something like 6 years. :D

[greentara]

Take it out for a farewell dinner and sell it before it depreciates beyond worth or dies before hand.

I build my own and pick motherboards that will stay current for a few years. That way even my three year old "Project" will be Vista Capable when I'm ready to buy it.

Hey it's been giving you over 2-years of loyal service...that's longer than some personal relationships!

But I'd cut my losses and dump it before it burns you and it will...

LOL :D very funny Craig. You know after reading this thread I think I will explore a Mac next time but I'll just keep the Dell until it dies and consider it an experiment in longevity...can’t focus on one more project at the moment considering all of the work involved with the move. I’m just burnt out on selling stuff ~ can’t part with the lap top at this point, I have too many photos and too much music on it.

I work in the convention business and we have Mac in house a couple of times a year and one reason I didn’t buy one is because I can’t stand their cooler than thou attitude.:p But most of my friends own Macs and they are having great luck with them. So I’ll let you know how our relationship progresses before I dump the Dell.

[Cameron]

I don't know how or why I quoted Mel up there. I must have hit quote and not realized.

[tutusue]

You know with those smug Apple ads running now, it's just a matter of time when Mac's will feel the brunt of a hacker. Smugness wasn't one of Apple's traits in the past, now it is. It reeks even when you walk into an Apple store. It's like you have to be hip to be seen inside one.
The Apple Store design is very, very cool...esp. the one in Kahala Mall. But, jeez, Craig...I'm just one, ol', unhip, untechie tutu who spends way too much time in the store!!! Oh wait...maybe the "hipness" will eventually rub off on me! Maybe? Ya think? :o

[tikiyaki]

The Apple Store design is very, very cool...esp. the one in Kahala Mall. But, jeez, Craig...I'm just one, ol', unhip, untechie tutu who spends way too much time in the store!!! Oh wait...maybe the "hipness" will eventually rub off on me! Maybe? Ya think? :o

Hey Sue, you're in "the biz", so, not matter what, you're a card carrying hipster...sorry, you have no choice. ;)

[buzz1941]

You know with those smug Apple ads running now, it's just a matter of time when Mac's will feel the brunt of a hacker. Smugness wasn't one of Apple's traits in the past, now it is. It reeks even when you walk into an Apple store. It's like you have to be hip to be seen inside one.

Actually, one of the main things that made me go Mac was PC owners. They kept standing around talking gibberish about coding prompts and frustrated attempts trying to get their machines to work. I realized these people were being "coded" by their machines instead of the user simply being able to use his tool...
All depends on what's important to you; the work you can accomplish on your computer, or the work you do to get your computer to accomplish something.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

You know with those smug Apple ads running now, it's just a matter of time when Mac's will feel the brunt of a hacker. Smugness wasn't one of Apple's traits in the past, now it is. It reeks even when you walk into an Apple store. It's like you have to be hip to be seen inside one.

that has been a threat looming over mac users' heads for years and years. We have dealt with worms and bugs and stuff before. Par for the course, as far as any computer user is concerned. However, when it comes to smug, having been a mac user exclusively for 15+ years now, I assure you that I have run into more than my fair share of it by the windows crowd, as if I was some dolt who really doesn't realize that the bus left an hour ago. The collective pity cannot be matched by a few mac commericals, trust me.

[Cameron]

I think half the problem with this argument is that both side want to say that their way is better, when in reality it all comes down to preference and opinion.

I personally use Linux, and I think it's the best thing that ever happened to computers. For me it just works! However, there are thousands of people for whom Linux just doesn't work. It makes me wonder what their complaining about, and why they are cursing a system that works so well for me. Naturally I want to sing praises and tell them that my way is the only way, but thats just not true.

[jkpescador]

Anyone like the Wow Vista commercials?

We have a Vista PC and the first comment was "huh ... looks like a Mac interface." :)

[craigwatanabe]

I think half the problem with this argument is that both side want to say that their way is better, when in reality it all comes down to preference and opinion.



I never said PC's were better. As a matter of fact I did say if you can afford a Mac then heck why not. AND Mac's have never had the threats of hackers in the past because they were always low-key. NOW however they are advertising, but it is the way they're advertising that is irking some people.

There are two ways to market a product. One way is to sell it's virtues, the other way is to denegrade the competition to make your product seem that much better. Why spend precious advertising dollars mocking the competition.

But the truth in advertising is simply this: If a product is that good you don't need to advertise it. BMW, Porche, even Jaguar never needed to advertise until they were hit with poor sales.

Apple never needed to advertise...

And it's not the Mac's that are keeping Apple afloat, it's the iPod! So why are they advertising Apple computers? Answer two paragraphs above.

A friend of mine programs Mac's. He's been doing it for decades! He told me once that what makes an Apple so easy to use up front is the myriad of complex code that runs quietly in the background. He also tells me that it doesn't take much to put that code into chaos once you know how to get in there. AND he did say that one day some program will leave that backdoor open and a hacker will find a way inside...and then it's all over for Apple's security.

And when that happens, it'll make Microsoft look like a blessed saint because so far there isn't a whole lot of tech support for Mac's if they go down.

If a PC running MS XP went down tonight, one could go down to CompUSA and pick up everything needed to rebuild a computer from the ground up. If a Mac went down, Oh well the Apple store opens bright and midmorning early the next day, but you won't find a motherboard for sale there.

PC's are relatively easy to fix, Mac's aren't. Kinda like a Chevy and a Ferrari. Ferrari's run fast and smooth but when they break...$$$$$ When Chevy's break any garage gearhead could fix one for a case of beer.

Anyway Mac's are great computers but I wouldn't be bragging about it, especially if I didn't know how the darn thing works because it will fail one day, there is no magic inside these computers. Plus when one starts to brag, bachi will soon follow, what goes around comes around. And that's my point of contention about Mac's, those commercials are all about bragging and that's not cool.

[DaFerret]

I have a PC for gaming and a MacBook for everything else. I enjoy both of them. If I weren't into gaming, I'd probably go for the cheapest laptop to get stuff done, which would probably be a MS laptop.

Back in the day I used to be really into customizing my PC and buying individual parts for it, but nowadays I just want to get a set and be done with it.

I like to attribute my purchase of a MacBook to the Halo Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect) since I had an iPod prior (of course, I also had a secondhand Powerbook 150 around '97-98, which incidentally was my first laptop). >_> I don't care for most of the Mac commercials but there are a few that I find funny.

I much prefer the Switch commercials. Or better yet... no commercials and only the positive word-of-mouth advertisements I heard when talking with friends who love their Macs.

[tutusue]

[...]Or better yet... no commercials and only the positive word-of-mouth advertisements I heard when talking with friends who love their Macs.
B-b-but DaFerret...that'd put me outta business! :D I was called to cast the voice over for the Cube spots and even offered the ad agency that I'd trade product for time! They couldn't do a trade...so I traded for money instead! ;) Gotta keep all those commercials comin' in...not just the Apple ones!

[DaFerret]

B-b-but DaFerret...that'd put me outta business! :D I was called to cast the voice over for the Cube spots and even offered the ad agency that I'd trade product for time! They couldn't do a trade...so I traded for money instead! ;) Gotta keep all those commercials comin' in...not just the Apple ones!
Oh! Ohhhh.... I meant, umm... no commercials that you don't work in/for/on!

[tutusue]

Oh! Ohhhh.... I meant, umm... no commercials that you don't work in/for/on!
I mute the shows and watch the commercials! I just happen to really like Apple's spots. You can give me a raspberry if ya like! :D

[buzz1941]

BTW, in terms of cost, the older Mac blue-and-whites are dirt cheap and they're easy to pop open and customize. They'll also attach to anything. I've rebuilt several from the ground up.

[craigwatanabe]

You can pick up an old G3 with OS9 for about $160 including shipping http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=IM350-AQUA-3B&cat=SYS

[cynsaligia]

PC's are relatively easy to fix, Mac's aren't. Kinda like a Chevy and a Ferrari. Ferrari's run fast and smooth but when they break...$$$$$ When Chevy's break any garage gearhead could fix one for a case of beer.

Anyway Mac's are great computers but I wouldn't be bragging about it, especially if I didn't know how the darn thing works because it will fail one day, there is no magic inside these computers. Plus when one starts to brag, bachi will soon follow, what goes around comes around. And that's my point of contention about Mac's, those commercials are all about bragging and that's not cool.

mr. watanabe--

what product doesn't "brag" to some degree or another? is the "bragging" that people object to about mac advertising really just an objection to how much the truth hurts?

i think your chevy/ferrari analogy fails in the sense that ferraris aren't exactly easy to drive. most people can't just get into a ferrari and expect to maneuver very well. i mean, you should be some sort of driving enthusiast if you're gonna buy a ferrari. on the other hand, a mac is much more approachable than a pc if you're a novice computer user (see what i said earlier about beau's mom and dvr vs. mac). i think that a better car analogy for the PCs v. mac would be a Ford Mustang v. Lexus ES (mind you, i'm not the car expert--the beau is, but he's not here for me to ask him). but i think this analogy works in that a stang is fairly ubiquitous, people like em, and there are a lot of home garage mechanic types who like doing all kinds of stuff with em, but would most grammas buy and drive a stang? naw. they'd be happier with a lexus, if they can afford it, bcs it's not so quirky, it's user friendly, it has practically everything most people would want in a car, all in one nifty and good looking package.

don't get me wrong--i'm more comfortable in the PC environment if only bcs i've used it for years at work. but i can definitely see the advantages for home use, esp if you aren't technically savvy or don't have a relative or sigfig at home who is a computer geek. besides, the people who aren't so savvy bout computers who buy a PC are more than likely to freak out and call in professional help for every single little error window that comes up and that costs money each and every time and therefore spend $$ on that, each and every time, so the $$ argument about macs being more expensive to repair, for now, falls short.

my own mom, who lives on the mainland, is a bit more savvy bout computers, and she owns a PC that she bought on her own. every time she calls/emails me bcs she can't open a link (which is many times more often than the beau's mom calls to ask about her dvr), i tell myself i need to buy her a mac the next time i visit her.

[craigwatanabe]

The comparison is that a fine tuned machine will run circles around a piece of...well a not so fine tuned machine. :rolleyes:

Mac's interface is designed to be easy to use up front because there's a crap load of stuff going on behind.

I like the KISS mentality, and for a user, Mac's win hands down, but a user doesn't see the inner workings of OS X where it's complex as hell. And that's where it's weakness is.

But for as long as Mac's use the same kind of drag the competition thru the mud marketing campaign, soon it'll be Apple that will be the big bad boy that needs a time out and join Bill Gates in the corner.

And then there will be Linux rising from the dead and wounded!

[cynsaligia]

I like the KISS mentality, and for a user, Mac's win hands down, but a user doesn't see the inner workings of OS X where it's complex as hell. And that's where it's weakness is. QUOTE]

on that point i can heartily agree, but most users don't care what they can't see. i mean, what percentage of american drivers look under their hood and can point out which puka is for the oil or know what kinda oil to buy? i'm not saying that percentage is the same percentage as the # of folks who know how to run a virus check versus who don't, but you get the idea of what i'm trying to say.

[QUOTE=craigwatanabe;143546]
And then there will be Linux rising from the dead and wounded!

aagh, me not computer geek! when someone says linux i think of charlie brown's friend with the blankey. *blush*

[craigwatanabe]

But you would care if and when your mac starts acting up. And you'd care even more if you cannot find someone to repair that mac before that Monday morning meeting presentation.

I fix enough PC's to know that there's a lot of computer users that simply do not update their virus protection or their spyware software. Like most automobile drivers that don't check the oil levels or tire pressure, they drive until the engine seizes up, just like computer users, they will disregard the update notices until a virus stops them dead in their tracks.

Mac's don't experience problems like this yet, but given time and too much "chip on the shoulder" advertising, there will be a successful hack into the operating domain of OS X and once in...It's a whole new ball game for Apple and too little knowledgable techies out there to fix it because Apple has been so secretive about it's systems.

[buzz1941]

I'm not exactly Mr. Fixit, and yet I've never had a problem getting a Mac to operate properly and quickly, either on my own or via a repair shop. (Yes, sometimes they wear out!)

I don't need to learn operating systems to get it to work. The only coding I know is html.

I've been using Macs daily for more than two decades, and in all that time I've only had one go down on me fatally, and even then all the data was rescued.

It's simply the best computer and the best computer interface ever designed, hands down.

Preferring PCs because they're easier to repair says a lot about the expected performance envelope of the PC. It's a failure mentality.

[Miulang]

Macs are for right brained, creative types who can't be bothered with learning the inner workings of their machines, only that they work. PCs are for left brainers who are always asking why this, why that? People who prefer PCs for home use also probably drive stick shift cars, too.:p

Miulang

[buzz1941]

Macs are for right brained, creative types who can't be bothered with learning the inner workings of their machines, only that they work. PCs are for left brainers who are always asking why this, why that? People who prefer PCs for home use also probably drive stick shift cars, too.

I must be a little bit of both.

I prefer to drive a stick, but still fail to appreciate the wonders of right-clicking.

[joshuatree]

I'm not exactly Mr. Fixit, and yet I've never had a problem getting a Mac to operate properly and quickly, either on my own or via a repair shop. (Yes, sometimes they wear out!)

I don't need to learn operating systems to get it to work. The only coding I know is html.

I've been using Macs daily for more than two decades, and in all that time I've only had one go down on me fatally, and even then all the data was rescued.

It's simply the best computer and the best computer interface ever designed, hands down.

Preferring PCs because they're easier to repair says a lot about the expected performance envelope of the PC. It's a failure mentality.

Here's the basic bottom line, it's all about expectations and the price you are willing to pay for it.

Macs - definitely very user friendly and less prone to problems. But this is because Macs are pretty much proprietary in design on both the hardware and software. The hardware and software were made for each other. So the downside of all this is you pay through the nose for a Mac. Yes, they are coming out with cheaper versions but the price you pay on a Mac any day will buy you some "higher end" PC stuff.

PCs - basically the Ford Model T in the computer world. Standardized hardware with an OS that tries to encompass all of it. End result, instead of getting "plug and play", reality sometimes is more like "plug and pray". Also, since the majority of computers in the world are PCs, they also attract the unwanted attention from hackers who only further complicate a novice user when hit by a bug, worm, or virus. But plus side, because it's standardized equipment, you have a myriad of choices of parts. You can build a franken PC from parts here and there. So overall, it's a lot cheaper. But like the model T, you better know how to get your hands dirty on a routine basis.

If OS reliability is the only criteria, heck, one should check out Unix. Now that's a very stable OS right there. ;)

[Cameron]

Well let me break the norm and say this, both operating systems suck.

OSX is flat out insult to the users who use it. In trying to be simple, it has alienated it's users and in turn treats them like retards. Yes I'm calling the same simplicity that you praise, an insult to your intelligence. They hide and lock away anything that might confuse you or allow you to mess something up, as if you are too stupid to read warning signs. Not to forget to mention the large icons and graphical prompts. What, are words so hard to read that you need a big flashing picture to direct you? While some users are contented with this system I hardly find it a bragging point. If you want to brag, then brag about how you don't get viruses because your on a bsd based operating system. If you want to brag about how easy it is to connect to network devices, then start touting the greatness of netconf. You have great printer support, well thats CUPS. Oh wait, you have no idea what those things are, and are totally ignorant to the fact that they were all borrowed from *nix? Well then I guess you will want to brag about how everything just works, then start bragging about the fact that you have an operating system that was designed to work on expensive hardware that you had no choice but to buy just so you could have your operating system of choice. Hardware that you have little or no control over. And while you laugh at pc users because they're upping their systems so that can run a new version of their operating system instead of one that was made 6 years ago, you forget that when Mac releases it's next os you for the most part won't have the choice to upgrade your system. I guess that means a whole new system.

Ok so that was a little ranty, and directed more to the users than the os, but I'm in a ranty mood.

Now for windows. While I can't directly attack pc users for their arrogance, I can say this. Windows flat out sucks. Not much more needs to be said. The shortcomings are evident, and over discussed. The only way MS will ever be able to compare with Apple is if: (1)hardware vendors are required stick to a strict set of standards (2)Microsoft becomes a hardware vendor, and only allows it's os to be installed on MS hardware. Number one will never happen because MS can't even follow standards it's self (just look at ie and w3c compliance), and number two wouldn't work because all the hardware vendors would yell antitrust. Regardless of whether they fix their os or not MS will continue to dominate because they've made sure that they are the standard, and as long as they have that they can and will continue to produce crappy products, because they can.

[Cameron]

Here's the basic bottom line, it's all about expectations and the price you are willing to pay for it.

Macs - definitely very user friendly and less prone to problems. But this is because Macs are pretty much proprietary in design on both the hardware and software. The hardware and software were made for each other. So the downside of all this is you pay through the nose for a Mac. Yes, they are coming out with cheaper versions but the price you pay on a Mac any day will buy you some "higher end" PC stuff.

PCs - basically the Ford Model T in the computer world. Standardized hardware with an OS that tries to encompass all of it. End result, instead of getting "plug and play", reality sometimes is more like "plug and pray". Also, since the majority of computers in the world are PCs, they also attract the unwanted attention from hackers who only further complicate a novice user when hit by a bug, worm, or virus. But plus side, because it's standardized equipment, you have a myriad of choices of parts. You can build a franken PC from parts here and there. So overall, it's a lot cheaper. But like the model T, you better know how to get your hands dirty on a routine basis.

If OS reliability is the only criteria, heck, one should check out Unix. Now that's a very stable OS right there. ;)

That more or less a less angry version of what i wanted to say :p

[tikiyaki]

Macs are for right brained, creative types who can't be bothered with learning the inner workings of their machines, only that they work. PCs are for left brainers who are always asking why this, why that? People who prefer PCs for home use also probably drive stick shift cars, too.:p

Miulang

YES !!!! THANK YOU.....As a person who does music for a living, and uses computers to do it, I can't tell you how important this point is. The LAST thing you need when you get a creative idea is the technology roadblocking you. Unfortuntaely, the softwre still does this, so there is a learning curve, but at the end of the day, it's about getting that idea down before it vanished from your brain.

Well let me break the norm and say this, both operating systems suck.

OSX is flat out insult to the users who use it. In trying to be simple, it has alienated it's users and in turn treats them like retards. Yes I'm calling the same simplicity that you praise, an insult to your intelligence. They hide and lock away anything that might confuse you or allow you to mess something up, as if you are too stupid to read warning signs. Not to forget to mention the large icons and graphical prompts. What, are words so hard to read that you need a big flashing picture to direct you? While some users are contented with this system I hardly find it a bragging point.

I do....see above. Sorry, but sometimes you just want big roadsigns and pointing arrows. No insult to my intelligence, when you have a creative idea, you don't need ANYTHING getting in the way of that. I don't wanna have to be an egghead to do my creative work. I wanna put my energy into the work I'm doing, not the tool I'm using to do it.

[buzz1941]

Actually, by the time you buy all the PC periperals and cards that bring the computer to bottom-line Mac standards, the price isn't all that different.

[craigwatanabe]

ummm actually the price difference is pretty big.

You can buy a screaming gaming machine for about the price of a standard Mac. The problem is you can't run screaming games on a standard Mac.

And Buzz yes you've used mac's for over 20-years with no major hiccups, that's because Macs haven't been targetted YET.

My whole point is that with Apple's rather smug ads running lately, it will piss off some PC hackers and become a target for abuse in the future.

The difference is that PC users who are used to it already, just get it fixed and go on. Mac users pay a lot for protection and reliabililty so the desire to actually learn about their machine is back burnered.

As one customer said one day at: I pay top dollar for a top of the line product...I expect top dollar service.

If you can afford those statements then by all means get a Mac. But most are students and working professionals who couldn't drop a thousand bucks at the drop of a hat when their Macs break and need another.

But if you know a midnight techie (like most of us computer builders work thru the midnight hour) then resolution is just a phone call and a Zippy's zip pack at any hour!

When my computer went down, it came back up in a couple of troubleshooting hours. When a friends Mac G5 went down he had to send it in. One week later he was back on the job.

I learned how to fix PCs because I use them. You won't learn how to fix a Mac even if you do use them because they rarely fail...yet. BUT when hackers had enough of the Mac ads, they will rant at Macs and target their deceit against them. The difference is Mac users won't know what hit them because their knowledge base of how to use their computer was inadequate.

I tell my wife and kids that drive cars that it is their responsibility to properly maintain the vehicles they drive like checking fluid levels and keeping tire pressure at the right amount. You just don't drive till it drops.

Computer users need to take on that same level of responsibility (cuz I see a ton of em come in) when using their computers. But as a Mac user if you don't take that responsibility because you do have a remarkably well built machine, one day even that well-oiled Mac will fail and then what will you do?

Will you simply go out and get another one and drop a rent payment to buy your computer?

It's just a matter of time before Macs become targetted, and those smug ads are just the ticket to start the attacks.

Mac users can continue to live in their protective cocoon but when the cocoon cracks be ready for the real world cuz it's gonna rush in with a fury. It's just a matter of time.

[joshuatree]

Actually, by the time you buy all the PC periperals and cards that bring the computer to bottom-line Mac standards, the price isn't all that different.

I had to do a double take on that one. :confused:

Mac mini $599 - 1.66GHz Intel Core Duo, 512MB (2x256MB) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300), 60GB Serial ATA, 24x Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW), Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory

Dell Dimension E521 $649 - AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual-Core 4000+, NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE Integrated Graphics GPU, 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs, 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive, 15 inch E156FP Analog Flat Panel, 16x DVD+/-RW Drive

[Cameron]

Actually mac users aren't prone to viruses because OSX is a bsd/unix based operating system. While it is true that part of the reason that there are less viruses for Osx is because it's small market share, it is equally true that *nix systems are more secure and seemingly more difficult to compromise.

[tutusue]

[...]But as a Mac user if you don't take that responsibility because you do have a remarkably well built machine, one day even that well-oiled Mac will fail and then what will you do?[...]
Get it fixed...just like PC users do! I love ProCare. It rocks! Oh, and HMAUS Brown Bag clinics, too! We have good resources, really! :rolleyes:

[acousticlady]

[quote=Miulang;143573]Macs are for right brained, creative types who can't be bothered with learning the inner workings of their machines, only that they work. PCs are for left brainers who are always asking why this, why that? People who prefer PCs for home use also probably drive stick shift cars, too.:p

Miulang[/quote

Well......as a physicist who works in digital signal processing......I whole-heartedly disagree with what you are saying.

[Miulang]

[quote=Miulang;143573]Macs are for right brained, creative types who can't be bothered with learning the inner workings of their machines, only that they work. PCs are for left brainers who are always asking why this, why that? People who prefer PCs for home use also probably drive stick shift cars, too.:p

Miulang[/quote

Well......as a physicist who works in digital signal processing......I whole-heartedly disagree with what you are saying.
Which part? left brain driving an automatic transmission car, or right brain owning a PC? And it's not an absolute rule of thumb, just an observation.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Get it fixed...just like PC users do! I love ProCare. It rocks! Oh, and HMAUS Brown Bag clinics, too! We have good resources, really! :rolleyes:

That's nice, but here on the Big Island Mac repair is virtually non-existant.

There will always be a line drawn in the sand between Mac and PC. Like I've said earlier, if you got the bucks then go ahead. But the feeling of bliss will be compromised as Apple decides to become the one bragging. Nobody likes a show off.

[acousticlady]

[quote=acousticlady;143698]
Which part? left brain driving an automatic transmission car, or right brain owning a PC? And it's not an absolute rule of thumb, just an observation.

Miulang

:D definitely the left brain driving the automatic! I took it as an observation. I'm new to this - need to learn to use the little faces more:D:D

[craigwatanabe]

[quote=Miulang;143705]

:D definitely the left brain driving the automatic! I took it as an observation. I'm new to this - need to learn to use the little faces more:D:D

little faces mean you're being creative...right brain

[tutusue]

Hey Sue, you're in "the biz", so, not matter what, you're a card carrying hipster...sorry, you have no choice. ;)
Hip by default, huh?! :D I work with some of the hippest people one could ever meet. And there the comparison ends!!! Still, they include me in many of their get togethers! They're younger than my kids by a decade fer crissakes! I'm always flattered!

As you know, Tiki, the majority of "us" are Maccies and we're in a very creative industry. So the Macs=creative line that was drawn earlier in this thread is pretty darn accurate.

I remember during the early 90s when first wading thru Mac waters, I called on a Mac person for help. He gave me a piece of advice I've never forgotten. He did "something" to my Mac...can't remember what...and showed me what he'd done. When I whined and wondered if I'd "ever learn it" he said..."You don't have to learn it.". IOW, I didn't have to learn EVERYTHING about the Mac. I didn't even know what was ok not to know! Still don't! So I whip out my ProCare card! ;)

[buzz1941]

It's definitely a different learning curve on a PC. I have to use one every once in a while and all the extra hoops PC owners have to jump through to complete simple tasks seems like a waste of time.

But it's a good thing that PCs are so easy to repair -- because you'll be doing it more often!

[craigwatanabe]

At least you don't have to buy the new Apple flavor of the year with a lower price to boot.

[tikiyaki]

Hip by default, huh?! :D I work with some of the hippest people one could ever meet. And there the comparison ends!!! Still, they include me in many of their get togethers! They're younger than my kids by a decade fer crissakes! I'm always flattered!

As you know, Tiki, the majority of "us" are Maccies and we're in a very creative industry. So the Macs=creative line that was drawn earlier in this thread is pretty darn accurate.



Hip by default....maybe, but you're getting invited to parties, so , hip, by hipster standards too...Sorry Sue, you're hip. :p

There is a roped off table with your name on a reserve card waiting for you.

You PC guys have fun with your PC's. I'll have fun with my Mac....either way, we get done what we have to get done, and that's all that matters...

Craig, you sound like you're got a micropchip on your shoulder. :D

Lighten up guy, it's just age old advertising...

Remember too, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are friends from way back.

[craigwatanabe]

It may be age old advertising, but for Apple it isn't what they were in their humble beginnings and with this bold advertising they've launched, they have become part of the monster they were championing against.

That's what I'm saying. In the past Apple has made itself a name by making reliable (albeit expensive) computers. Hackers stayed away because Apple never attacked anyone or became the monolith MS had. Now with sales soaring and ad campaigns mocking their competition, they have become as targetable as MS has in the past.

This isn't a chip on a shoulder by any means. This is fair warning that what is happening to MS will happen to Apple with an attitude like that.

If you ask me I think it's more the Apple crowd that has the chip on the shoulder mocking PC's for their unstable OS platforms.

This is humble talk man. People think they're safe behind their Macs, and for now they are, but keep up the trash talk and soon Apple will be licking it's embarrassed wounds after what I will dub as the first major Virus to attack an Apple OS as: The BIG MAC Attack. Nothing is sacred, not even Apple.

One thing I do agree on regarding the strengths of Apple computers is their carving out a niche in the music and video production industry. Ever since the first Macintosh came out following the Apple II series, Apple was able to garner a greater percentage in that field amazingly not against MS but a very popular computer called the Commodore 64 that held ground well into the mid 90's.

But as I've said before, even Apple stole their GUI from Xerox way back before the rise of MS' GUI. So what goes around, comes around. Yeah so what if Vista looks like a 6-year old Mac desktop. Apple has been saying that ever since Windows 3.1 came out. And Xerox had been saying that (and sued Apple) when Apple came out with the Macintosh. It's no big wahoo to anyone who's been in the computer biz since the 60's.

[Honoruru]

One thing that frustrates me about both PCs and Macs is when they introduce a new OS. I hate it! It means more money out of my wallet.

I own an old iMac (OS 9.1) and a PC (XP Professional—it’s a Dell, by the way, going on 4 years). I need (want) to upgrade, but I can’t afford to upgrade both.

Windows has gone to Vista and the Mac upgrade (Leopard) is on hold till October (from what I hear). I really haven’t been keeping up on the upgrade front, so I went to CompUSA to test drive Vista. I wasn’t too impressed with the interface (it’s kinda Mac-like, OS 10 at least), but when I did an application test and test drove MS Word 2007, which was designed for Vista, it floored me. It’s totally changed, and not necessarily for the better! If this is your first word processing program (and your word processing requirements are simple), this might be OK. But if you are into heavy formatting, and accessing and retaining the formatting of older versions of Word (95, 98, etc.), then you might be in trouble. Has anyone here tried Vista and/or Office 2007?

For me, I’m heavily leaning towards a MacBook or MacBook Pro, but Apple has delayed the next OS till October. So, for all of you Mac addicts out there, will I be missing anything if I buy a Mac in the summer? I need to upgrade my software, too ... but that’s another story ... or is it?

btw: I used to work in advertising, but I’m not commenting on that battle front... at least not at the moment.

[Miulang]

I dunno if I'd actually try to "upgrade" any PC from an older version of Windows to Vista. I've heard too many horror stories of things going wrong. Better to bite the bullet and start from scratch (reformat and load). I'm not going to upgrade my PC to Vista. I'll just trash it when support for XP ends and start with a new PC. (or get a new PC when this one dies, whichever comes first) The only reason I'm on XP now is because my '98 PC crashed about 2 years ago.

Miulang

[Honoruru]

From my mini-research, I came to the same conclusion. I'll wait till my XP dies before I upgrade. My sister bought a new computer, HP with Vista (mainly because her old computer died), but her copy of PhotoShop, which I gave her, cannot install. It's incompatible. I don't know how many other of her software/hardware are incompatible, but I've read and heard a lot of horror stories.

But the same could be said about Mac updates. When I bought my iMac (OS 9.1) there was a big issue about QuarkXpress and incompatibility with OS 10.xxx. and how printers (commercial printers, not personal printers) would respond.

[joshuatree]

Unless you have some app you so badly need and it only runs on the latest OS, the wise thing to do is to stick with the old OS till support dies. It will be the most reliable OS. This is why you will still find companies using Windows 2000.

It's like buying a car. If a car model introduces an all new design, yes, you got the wow, cool factor. But you are also buying the most problem prone year model for that generation because the bugs haven't been worked out. If you buy the last of the model year for a specific generation, it will be the best, bug free version. This was many years ago but I bought the last of one generation of Civic and I had a roommate who bought the first year of the next generation. He had a whole lot more problems than I ever had, which was zero for me.

[Cameron]

But it's a good thing that PCs are so easy to repair -- because you'll be doing it more often!

You keep spouting that line, but it's no more valid than the first time you said it. Hardware is hardware, the higher the quality the better the performance and lifespan. Yes, Macs are made with decent hardware, but that doesn't mean that all other PC manufactures sell crap. Making the generalization that all other non-mac PCs break often because non-mac users have the choice to buy cheapy computers is ignorant. Of course a 200$ e-machine shouldn't be expected to last forever, It can but for that price it shouldn't be expected. Again, it's all about choice, with non-mac PCs you have a choice, with macs there is no choice.



That's what I'm saying. In the past Apple has made itself a name by making reliable (albeit expensive) computers. Hackers stayed away because Apple never attacked anyone or became the monolith MS had. Now with sales soaring and ad campaigns mocking their competition, they have become as targetable as MS has in the past.

Craig, while this has been argued before, and is certainly a possibility, it is a lot harder to compromise a properly secured *nix system. There have been several competitions to break into a properly secured osx machine and there has been little success. Not to say there hasn't been any successes at all. There have been a plethora of 0day exploits, but Apple does a good job at keeping them patched. While market share undoubtedly plays a small part in OSx's lack of viruses and other nuances, it is more reasonable to say that it takes more sophisticated hackers and viruses writers to compromise a *nix system, where as windows systems(at least from xp down, I haven't been following vista at all)have and can be cracked by any little scriptkiddie with a bit of VB knowledge.

Sorry Craig, I'm not a big fan of apple but the arguments weak.

Want some Irony to go with this argument! Macs most well known un-patched security flaw is MS offices macro feature:D

[craigwatanabe]

Sorry Craig, I'm not a big fan of apple but the arguments weak.

Want some Irony to go with this argument! Macs most well known un-patched security flaw is MS offices macro feature:D


No need to apologize:D But the more sophisticated the OS the more flaws can be found. Simplicity rates in my book.

I used to design circuits that maintained accuracy. The more accuracy needed the more sophisticated the circuit became until it became agonizingy harder to troubleshoot.

My friend who programs Macs is one of complexity. When we were kids we were locking our bikes to a light pole in front of Kahala Mall. He wrapped his chain thru every part of his bike until it looked like a serpant choking it's prey.

When he locked the padlock I looked at him and said, "Great job but you forget to lock it to the pole".

Mac's are like that, the complexity of it's operating system is hidden from the user thru a simple GUI. This user simplicity limits what you can do with it if you chose to be creative and must rely on licensed programs.

But behind that OS is a complex network of address lines and that's where the complexity will spell it's demise. Too many ways in. And my friend did tell me as a programmer that once the back door is left open on a Mac OS, all hell will break loose. There is a door, all programmers make one for their benefit.

One day a hacker will find one unlocked...it's just a matter of time.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I don't understand the arguments at all. System upgrades in OSX are what set the system apart and easy to do. Simply copy your apps and user folder over to a portable hd, install the system, and copy your apps and user folder back, and you're done. On my Titanium PB, I upgraded to 10.4.9 with a complete clean install in under 1hr, with no glitches and no conflicts whatsoever. No need to reinstall wireless networks, bookmarks, preferences, anything.

Also, being compatible with unix is not stealing, it's called being cross-compatible and adaptable, and it's highly intelligent. The unix underpinning is what makes it possible to avoid Cameron's first point anyway - you can get in via terminal to any of the underlying architecture and tweak away to your heart's content. If you think it's unconfigurable, you clearly do not understand mac hardware.

I have owned many Macs. I learned them as I got them. I didn't know unix, but once I got OSX, I did a few tutorials. I have sat in only one class in these last 15+ years of owning/using macs, and by rtfn, along with acquainting myself with help features and menu pull-downs, the computer has consistently been easy for the self-taught user. My average mac lasts a good five years, at least. Up until OSX, I might have wiped out/rebooted the OS a few times, but my last computer, (Titanium 2001) I did so only one time, and it is still running. My new macbooks work flawlessly.

[mel]

A few more points on the Mac.

1. The MS Word macro virus has been around for at least 10 years if not longer. I think it started effecting Word from version 5.0 back in the System 7.0 days. That was like 1991 or so. The simple thing to do was/is to disable macros. Works for me as I have never used macros. I don't use Word that much.

My favorite Mac word processor has and will always be Write Now 4.0. It is simple to use but sadly abandoned by its owners about 10 years ago. It still works on my old Powerbook 3400, a Mac Plus and my Mac Plus emulator (http://minivmac.sourceforge.net/) that runs on a memory stick and compact flash card (one for OSX and the other for Windows XP).

2. Macs are not totally immune to viruses. There have been viruses for the Mac since the earliest of days. Anti viral programs and utilities have been published to take care of them. The last major viral outbreak for the Mac was around 1998 when something called the Hong Kong virus (I think that was the name) infected some Macs.

3. Currently for OSX which sits on top of BSD Unix as noted in previous posts, there are no known viruses. However the possibility does exist that the OSX layer could be infected if someone took the time to fool around and make something that messes up Aqua. But as Cameron states, it is harder to do something nasty with Unix.

4. Recently some kind of vulnerability was announced for Apple's (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=17871) Quicktime movie player. This announcement is one of several that gets announced from time to time. Apple has been pretty good in sending out updates and patches to fix OSX from possible security threats... just like I assume Microsoft does with Windows (I go home from work and come back the next day and the PC says please restart to finish upgrade).... We get similar stuff with OSX.

5. I would tend to agree with Craig that if a serious virus or other type of malware finally makes it in the Mac world, many users will be seriously effected. Just like Windows users.... it just hasn't happened to Mac users in a big way for a long time. I think reactions and fixes will be predictable when that day comes.

6. I think it you use older versions of the Mac OS (like OS 9.2 or earlier), the chances of being hit by malware is slim since the user base for those earlier OS's are in decline. The only malware to worry about are the ones that everyone knows of (about 70 of them I think).

While I use PCs at work, for home and all other uses I am Mac all the way. I even have my Mac laptop with me when I am work because there are times I need to do stuff like photos, and it is way better to use Photoshop in my Mac vs. having nothing like that on the work PC. At least I can save the photoshop file in a format that the PC with Windows understands and import it to whatever document I am working on in Windows.

[Cameron]

4. Recently some kind of vulnerability was announced for Apple's (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=17871) Quicktime movie player.


There was also another one not too long ago where hackers exploited a bug in safari.

[buzz1941]

So, have we scared Nikki enough on her original question that started this thread? Mac users are arrogant and ignorant of what's under the hood, and their comeuppance is imminent, whilst PC users can happily McGyver their machines to operate again when they're so often struck down by infection or malfunction.

I quite well remember a techhead at the Hawaii Newspaper Agency imperiously telling me that Macs will never succeed. I should, he said, invest in a CP/M computer made by Zorba!

Nikki, get a Zorba:

http://www.computermuseum.li/Testpage/TelconZorba1983.htm

[craigwatanabe]

Oops, oh well I guess it did get a bit hot here. Okay truce. PC's have their issues and Macs...are okay.
:)

[Leo Lakio]

I've used 'em both - I like 'em both.

I wouldn't say PCs are "better" for a lot of the tasks I use them for; I'm just more used to them, as that's what's been provided in my work environments.

But when I've done audio editing and album production, I preferrred Macs all the way.

[Cameron]

If you disagree with anything you find on this page, you are wrong.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

:p @ maddox

[buzz1941]

Remember that Guy Kawasaki, Duke's kid, was originally hired by Apple to be the "Mac evangelist." Yes, evangelist was the job title.

[Miulang]

Speaking of Mac bugs, Apple just released a fix for the QuickTime flaw (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/?hpid=news-col-blogs).

Miulang

[MixedPlateBroker]

The Mac vs. PC debate has been around almost as long as Coke vs. Pepsi. And although the latter choice is mostly a matter of personal taste, the subject of this thread can be resolved in a purely logical fashion.

I'm sure Nikki has been somewhat boggled by the salvos from each platform's camps of supporters and detractors. And I'm sure we can all agree that each platform has its pros and cons. But I think what would serve her better is a needs-based solution.

Say Nikki loves playing FP shooters online and transcoding DVDs to MPEG4 and most of her third-party applications are PC-only. Or maybe she wants the cheapest possible cpu/monitor combination. Then a PC would make more sense.

Maybe Nikki browses the web a lot, enjoys putting together edited family videos, slideshows or newsletters. Or perhaps she uses her computer for statistical analysis or physics modeling. Then a Mac would make more sense.

I think we all need to keep in mind that no one platform is the best for all purposes and that it's always good to keep track of the defects and weaknesses of componentry:
* Certain laptop batteries (even some Macbooks) have a tendency to immoliate their host systems and anything nearby
* Dell customer support is lacking
* HP is better at making printers than computers

All that being said, my ideal system would be a custom-built Intel quad-core, water-cooled box dual-booting Vista & Linux with four 1TB HDs running RAID 6 feeding video to a 50" 1080p flat-screen LCD ... if someone else were paying for it all. :D

[joshuatree]

You forgot one thing, what is Nikki's budget?

[buzz1941]

Basic rule: What programs do you want to run? Get the platform that works best for your programs.

[Composite 2992]

I quite well remember a techhead at the Hawaii Newspaper Agency imperiously telling me that Macs will never succeed. I should, he said, invest in a CP/M computer made by Zorba!

Gee, I wonder what that hack is up to today?

[craigwatanabe]

You forgot one thing, what is Nikki's budget?

Actually I would preface by saying, "What software has Nikki already invested in" If you have the complete MS Office Suite, Various PC games or PC based peripherals she may have to reinvest in Mac software, games and Mac based peripherals as well.

BTW I loved that website you posted Cameron: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

Like I said before, the last time I walked into an Apple store I felt as if I just walked into a Starbucks or a Borders, just didn't feel Hip enough. I guess board shorts, slippers and an Nvidia t-shirt didn't help at all.

I went up to this malnourished employee and asked, "Can this thing run hacked programs?" You should have seen the look on her eyes. I told her I got a hacked version of OS 9 (of course I was lying thru my teath), and suddenly several people gravitated to me to "tell me more".

"Got it off the internet but I lost the website so all I have is a burned DVD disc at home". When she couldn't answer me (I think her jaw was frozen open) I shrugged my shoulders and walked out. That was a few years ago at the Ala Moana store.

[Cameron]

I went up to this malnourished employee and asked, "Can this thing run hacked programs?" You should have seen the look on her eyes. I told her I got a hacked version of OS 9 (of course I was lying thru my teath), and suddenly several people gravitated to me to "tell me more".

"Got it off the internet but I lost the website so all I have is a burned DVD disc at home". When she couldn't answer me (I think her jaw was frozen open) I shrugged my shoulders and walked out. That was a few years ago at the Ala Moana store.

Do mac users not know what software piracy is or something?

[jkpescador]

Actually Windows can run on a Mac. So Windows programs can run on it too.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/windows.html

FYI, I'm in a dual environment.

At work I tried to load some Adobe products on Vista and it pretty much said no. For a couple other products Vista said there are known compatibility issues. It made me wonder if it's because Adobe and Microsoft are competing with each other. Anyway upgrading the software programs will cost a lot of money. Everything else loaded and seems to work fine.

[Brad White]

I am left... and right brained. I enjoy knowing how things work and I like to be creative. I was probably among the first musicians in the State to be using computers... not only for music but for running the bizz side as well. 30 years ago I had to spend 100's of hours to make my databases... now you can go out and buy quicken for $50. I was so excited with my 300 baud modem and the green text that came in from "out-there". For a while I had both PC's and Macs. One for music and the other for non-creative things... eventually I gave away my PC's and found the mac just took over. Today I spend most of my hours being creative... but I am also a problem solver. Over the last 15 years I have had to take our Macs in for repair maybe 3 times... I have never had to reinstall an OS... never. I have never had a virus or malware... nor have I ever heard of my Mac friends encounter one as well.

The average PC user is more likely to be a normal non-tech-type, without a clue to how anything works or why. They are lost when their PC doesn't work, or is slowing down or just breaks. Those people would have been much better off with a Mac. I know this because I am involved with computers everyday... I have neighbors and relatives, and every single one of the PC users have to call someone to come get their computer because of problems about every 6 months or so. This is the reality for the average PC computer owner... not the wiz-kid PC gamer who builds his own computers.

[Jonah K]

Actually Windows can run on a Mac. So Windows programs can run on it too.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/windows.html

FYI, I'm in a dual environment.

At work I tried to load some Adobe products on Vista and it pretty much said no. For a couple other products Vista said there are known compatibility issues. It made me wonder if it's because Adobe and Microsoft are competing with each other. Anyway upgrading the software programs will cost a lot of money. Everything else loaded and seems to work fine.
I stated the same thing earlier (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=142441&postcount=11). :cool: I've been running Windows XP on my Intel Macs for over a year with few problems. This is 2007, not 1997, so most of the "Mac vs. PC" arguments are somewhat spurious. :rolleyes:

[tikiyaki]

As much as I love MAC's, I'm totally annoyed right now, because my main workhorse G5 is down ..... AGAIN. I've replaced the Logic board in it twice and the superdrive once. At this point, I may excercise my Lemon Law rights, and demand a new one. One of the techs that came to my house told me I can do that, after 3 serious repairs.

On the other hand, I have 2 iMacs that I've had since 2003 that have had NO problems.

Sometimes you just get a sour one. Either way, I still love my MACS but right now I'm annoyed.

One thing I know. I'll NEVER get a new Apple without getting APPLE CARE.

I would be out about $1500 right now if I didn't have it.

Oh well, guess I'm outta commission for a few days....bummer, I have so much work to do. :(

[jkpescador]

Anyone discussing have shares of HP, DELL, AAPL, or MSFT? :)

[Jonah K]

Anyone discussing have shares of HP, DELL, AAPL, or MSFT? :)
Yeah, I own shares of MSFT & AAPL. :)

[Beachboy]

Nikki, you'd be doing yourself a favor picking up a Mac! Online support groups for Macs are boundless. On the other hand there is hardly any for the PC on the internet.
Plus, like someone else noted. You are virtually cruising the internet ten minutes out of the box with a Mac. I think Apple spend twice as much money than any other computer companies in R & D aspect of the business. This means a good consumer product for the end user. I can't even begin to right down all the things Apple has done for the computing world. They were the first with just about everything cool with computers.

Now with the Intel Macs you can run Windows, Linux Operating systems too on your Mac. Blue screen of death....not on a Mac. They last longer than any other PC on the market.

Also, today Macs don't really cost more than PC's. That tends to be something of the past. As for software, sure there is more software on a PC. Apple doesn't feel the need to offer up 10 different versions of Solitaire to it's user base. I hear a lot of people say,"there isn't enough games on the Mac platform". Besides, that's what "Game Consoles are for,right?

Nikki, if you gotta ask which is better for you. Then a Mac is your ticket for many reasons. Plus their new OS will be coming out at the end of summer! I mean Apple's OS is so awesome Windows tends to copy Apple's OS more than not.

Get yourself a white MacBook, you'll never suffer buyer's remorse!!!!:D

[buzz1941]

Interesting point from Beachboy I'd wondered about. Yes — wouldn't games be better on a dedicated games platform, like WII or PlayStation? Buying a computer just to play games seems like overkill.

[DaFerret]

Interesting point from Beachboy I'd wondered about. Yes — wouldn't games be better on a dedicated games platform, like WII or PlayStation? Buying a computer just to play games seems like overkill.
Depends. I like the fact that console games, once released are pretty much solid and not choked with bugs (every exception to the rule, and I can name a few).

However, I love the fact that I can modify many of my PC games. Take Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, for example. I believe you can download and install the official mods on an Xbox, but you can't install any of the user made mods that have been cropping up ever since the game launched. With my PC version of Oblivion, I can get new weapon, armor and character model textures. I can add new towns, NPCs, quests. Teams of people even create Total Conversion mods where they use the base system of Oblivion but create their own worlds.

Recently, a friend of mine was excited over the fact that he was able to download two new maps for Halo 2 for Xbox. But they costed him two bucks a map. Chump change, yeah? There's lots of First Person Shooter games for the PC that folks have created maps themselves. Even game development companies have created new maps and the PC gamers can download them for free.

I like console gaming but presently, even with PS3 and Xbox 360, PC games have the potential for being better in terms of longevity and easy to enhance, both by the developers as well as the fan base. And visuals and sounds are very spectacular in their own right in PC games. F.E.A.R. is a good example. Not only in its visuals and sound effects but also that it's a good game, which can both be extended by multiplayer options and an expansion. The official expansion is anywhere from $30-40. Console games can't be expanded on, yet.

There are many advantages to PC gaming and none of them are the latest rendition of Solitaire or Mine Sweeper. :P

If someone (like me) bought a PC just to play games, they should get the best they can afford. But if games, or video/audio editing for that matter, isn't really an issue, it shouldn't matter which platform you buy. Just get something you like and would meet your needs.

[joshuatree]

Also, today Macs don't really cost more than PC's. That tends to be something of the past.

Uh, please refer to post #65. As I understand, the Mac mini does not come with a monitor nor keyboard nor mouse. Want an Apple mouse and keyboard, $49 + $29. Apple 20" monitor, $599. So...$599 + $49 + $29 + $599 = $1276. Even if I upgraded the quoted Dell package with a 20" monitor so it's even with the Apple, it's $779. We still haven't matched up the RAM, HD size, and the DVD drive.

[craigwatanabe]

Nikki, you'd be doing yourself a favor picking up a Mac! Online support groups for Macs are boundless. On the other hand there is hardly any for the PC on the internet.
Plus, like someone else noted. You are virtually cruising the internet ten minutes out of the box with a Mac. I think Apple spend twice as much money than any other computer companies in R & D aspect of the business. This means a good consumer product for the end user. I can't even begin to right down all the things Apple has done for the computing world. They were the first with just about everything cool with computers.

Now with the Intel Macs you can run Windows, Linux Operating systems too on your Mac. Blue screen of death....not on a Mac. They last longer than any other PC on the market.

Also, today Macs don't really cost more than PC's. That tends to be something of the past. As for software, sure there is more software on a PC. Apple doesn't feel the need to offer up 10 different versions of Solitaire to it's user base. I hear a lot of people say,"there isn't enough games on the Mac platform". Besides, that's what "Game Consoles are for,right?

Nikki, if you gotta ask which is better for you. Then a Mac is your ticket for many reasons. Plus their new OS will be coming out at the end of summer! I mean Apple's OS is so awesome Windows tends to copy Apple's OS more than not.

Get yourself a white MacBook, you'll never suffer buyer's remorse!!!!:D

Nikki don't listen to Beachboy...he drives a Honda Element, and you know people that drive Elements...:D Actually there are a ton of PC support groups as well as tech forums out there for PC's (cuz we need em).

I'll tell you the real reason why I'm a PC'er: Building PC's is a hobby of mine and I love hitting the thrift shops and picking up an old Pentium II or III, gutting it out and building a decent internet computer for people who couldn't afford a computer (less a Mac). You can do this with PC's. Take an old PCI graphics card and couple it with a Pentium I running MMX technology and 256Mb of ram, toss in a Linux-based OS and viola you're cruising the internet from spare parts.

[buzz1941]

You can Frankenstein together a Mac blue-and-white into a most excellent machine for less than $200. I've done several.

[mel]

Uh, please refer to post #65. As I understand, the Mac mini does not come with a monitor nor keyboard nor mouse. Want an Apple mouse and keyboard, $49 + $29. Apple 20" monitor, $599. So...$599 + $49 + $29 + $599 = $1276. Even if I upgraded the quoted Dell package with a 20" monitor so it's even with the Apple, it's $779. We still haven't matched up the RAM, HD size, and the DVD drive.

One of the demographic groups the Mac Mini (http://www.apple.com/macmini/) is targeted for are current PC owners. The Mac Mini will take your PC keyboard and your PC monitor. All you do is buy the Mac Mini and plug in those components if you already have them.

[Brad White]

I bought a mac mini for $499 plus a keyboard and LCD monitor for a total of $200. So for $700 I had a great little computer.

[DannyWilliams]

See this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHO8l-Bd1O4).



awww man dat was HILARIOUS!


I loved Jobs plops down a House like figure and Gates asks what that?
Jobs sez its a iHouse!
Gates: A iHouse? But theres No Windows?


classic :D


And Window Media Clips aka WMV are watchable on Mac now........ woooo hooo!

[Hellbent]

You too can be a special and unique snowflake and buy a Mac. Mac fanatics scare me. That being said, once I can afford it, I want to buy a macbook. I took some olelo classes awhile ago, and would like to practice iMovie. In a previous life I was a commercial arts major, now I fix PC's, go figure. If creative==mac, I guess we'll see.

In my experience as a computer tech, Compaq's were the crappiest PC's. Since the merger, that includes HP too. I recommend Dells to people who dont want to pay much for good product.

---
Isnt the advent of virii on Mac's because of the changeover to Intel chips?
IMO, Vista is unnessary. In fact, I think for most peoples needs win95 would be fine. Most people use their PC for email and internet. Maybe solitaire. Which reminds me, I should go try out ubuntu.

[jkpescador]

http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/05/mac_vs_pc_south.html

Mac vs. PC parody South Park Style.

[Hellbent]

Interesting point from Beachboy I'd wondered about. Yes — wouldn't games be better on a dedicated games platform, like WII or PlayStation? Buying a computer just to play games seems like overkill.

Consoles have their uses, but for hardcore gamers, its all about the PC. Consider it like vehicles. You could get along with a bicycle or hyundai (consoles, in this example) or you could roar along with a fine tuned Ferrari (high end PC).
I have a xbox 360, nintendo DS, PSP, and a PC that I just upgraded the CPU (AMD price slash=awesome, $95 CPU for a dual core!), bought the 2nd best video card out there ($380 for a 8800 640mb).
What I'm trying to say is it depends on your level of gaming enthusiasm. Solitaire? buy a pack of cards $3.

also, i dont only play games on my pc - i use it for everything. photoediting, videoediting, videos, music...

[Composite 2992]

For those with environmental concerns, here's some green reasons to buy a Mac.

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple/

[joshuatree]

I bought a mac mini for $499 plus a keyboard and LCD monitor for a total of $200. So for $700 I had a great little computer.

True, you can further reduce the cost but if you're buying an all Apple product, including Apple brand monitor and accessories, there is no truth to claims that the price of an Apple is comparable to a PC. PCs have a whole lot of faults but pricing is one of its strong points.

[buzz1941]

If Apples cost twice as much but last twice as long....

[MixedPlateBroker]

It's a slight tangent, but does anyone remember Power Computing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Computing) back in the 90s? They were an Apple licensee specializing in building breathed-on systems around Mac's Moto guts. Pretty impressive for the time. Similar concept to what Alienware now does with Wintel.

[Beachboy]

check out this blog/site, it will answer a lot of questions concerning the Mac vs PC debate.

http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2005/04/of-course-macs-are-more-expensive.html

[Beachboy]

Uh, please refer to post #65. As I understand, the Mac mini does not come with a monitor nor keyboard nor mouse. Want an Apple mouse and keyboard, $49 + $29. Apple 20" monitor, $599. So...$599 + $49 + $29 + $599 = $1276. Even if I upgraded the quoted Dell package with a 20" monitor so it's even with the Apple, it's $779. We still haven't matched up the RAM, HD size, and the DVD drive.

Yo, Joshuatree whatcha been smoking? Check out this pricing of Apple vs Dell:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6625581.html

[craigwatanabe]

Oh my there's a problem with Mac's: http://www.techspot.com/news/25159-study-finds-manufacturing-defect-in-ibook-g4.html

[mel]

The problem with the laptops is well known in Mac circles. Just like the one about the Sony batteries that catch fire in Apples, Dells, Sonys and other laptops. Certainly hasn't stopped people who wanted Macs from buying them.

[tikiyaki]

I bought a mac mini for $499 plus a keyboard and LCD monitor for a total of $200. So for $700 I had a great little computer.

Brad, is that your recording/composing setup?

[joshuatree]

check out this blog/site, it will answer a lot of questions concerning the Mac vs PC debate.

http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2005/04/of-course-macs-are-more-expensive.html

The RISC vs CISC debate doesn't apply anymore considering Apple switched over to Intel chips.

Yo, Joshuatree whatcha been smoking? Check out this pricing of Apple vs Dell:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6625581.html

While Dell and most PC makers try to make their fattest profit on the higher end machines, if you shop around, HP has a system similar to the Mac Pro for about the same price after rebates. Also, you haven't factored in systems comprising of AMD chips nor have you factored in lesser PC brands or home built systems. Apple has definitely done better with pricing but as I've pointed out, it is still more expensive on the whole, particularly with the lower end offerings.

[Brad White]

I just saw this....

http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/5497


Seth wrote:

At NYU I would say its very similar. My program which is very computing intensive went from about 30% macs 3 years ago to about 90% today. We also have seen our Computer lab go from 75% PCs to just having a few for specialized tasks. A complete reversal.

I don't think the trend has been as dramatic across campus but I think our program is the bellwether of things to come.

Posted on Fri, 05/11/2007 - 10:11am| reply
Scott wrote:

To comment on the general situation at Georgetown besides the Law Center, I'd say the Mac penetration among first year students this year had to be about 50% or higher. And looking around at the library I'd say overall about 30% of students are using Macs.

Posted on Fri, 05/11/2007 - 11:53am| reply
Robert L. Mitchell wrote:

To clarify, Georgetown has two campuses besides the Law Center: the College of Arts and Sciences (main campus), and the Medical Center. The total campus population is about 14,000 students. I would assume that Scot is talking about the main campus.

Posted on Fri, 05/11/2007 - 2:54pm| reply
Jonathan wrote:

Here at Harvard, it seems to be a rather similar situation. A quick glance around the library suggests that about half of students are using Macs, and in classes, the rate is often higher (as an aside, it seems like Mac users are more likely to actually take their laptops out of their rooms, for some reason). I recall that at one recent meeting for an organization, eight out of the nine laptops in use were Macs.

[craigwatanabe]

I think the day Mac's overtake the business world is when they start offering incentives such as Dell's and HP's business solutions. When working at the Gas Company, we used to buy Dell's and HP's by the pallets. Each company would offer tech support and peripheral add-ons with bulk purchases of PC's and servers.

Does Apple offer similar incentives? And are there any business-class software support for Mac's for large data base programs such as SAP, Orcom Mirror Pond, People Soft or even MS' Great Plains? These are major database systems used by a lot of Fortune 500 companies.

[buzz1941]

I notice the Mac guy in the commercials has cleaned up a little.

[Leo Lakio]

I notice the Mac guy in the commercials has cleaned up a little.I have trouble taking him seriously as a spokesperson, after several years portraying the geeky and annoying Warren Cheswick on "Ed."