Get your US passport!

[Miulang]

Anybody who doesn't already have a valid US passport and who's thinking of getting one should wikiwiki apply for it while there's still a chance that you will be issued an RFID-free one (I got mine in Feb. and it doesn't have the chip embedded in it)

If you wait until after July, here's what you'll get (and there's even a Hawai'i connection in it!). The new "American Icon (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/weekinreview/29macfa.html?ref=us)" passport will be like the ones you get a World's Fair...each page has a different image on it and you race around trying to get as many stamps as possible. The last page has an image of Diamond Head printed on it.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Actually, I think the new passport looks pretty cool. If the concern is RFID and perhaps the ability for someone to scan your passport while you are walking around, etc, with the passport in pocket; here's a very simple solution. Have your RFID passport slipped in a sheet of foil. That should pretty much interfere with someone trying to scan your RFID chip.

[Miulang]

Another reason to get a passport: within the next few years (unless Congress repeals the law), your drivers' licenses can't be used to board a plane even when travelling within the US unless each state agrees to comply with standardized rules for the licenses under the Real ID Act of 2005. They can't be used as an acceptable form of ID. You can't open a bank account or apply for credit with a non-compliant driver's license or apply for a job, either. And the states are all complaining that they don't have the funding (and the feds didn't think about providing any either) to replace all the current drivers' licenses so they meet the new standard (shades of No Child Left Behind!)

The Real ID Act of 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act):
After December 31, 2009, "a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a state to any person unless the state is meeting the requirements" specified in the Real ID Act. States remain free to also issue non-complying licenses and ID's, so long as these have a unique design and a clear statement that they cannot be accepted for any Federal identification purpose. The federal Transportation Security Administration is responsible for security check-in at airports, so bearers of non-compliant documents would no longer be able to travel on common carrier aircraft.

In addition, the federal Social Security Administration, (42 USC section 666 (28)), requires the States to maintain a new hire directory. Employers would no longer be able to accept, or ultimately hire, bearers of non-compliant documents for employment.

Also, financial institutions are required to assist the Federal Parent Locator Service, (42 USC 666 (17)). Financial institutions would require compliant documents from all customers. Bearers of non-compliant documents would be denied financial or banking services.

Additional federal and state agencies who will require compliant documents are listed, in part, in 42 USC 666 (United States Code Title 42 Section 666).



This is going to be quite the moneymaker for the US State Dept. because each new passport costs the applicant close to $100 (plus the cost of 2 photos) and a renewal costs $67.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Foil impairs only a range of frequencies. The higher the frequency, the easier to block. Low frequencies simply pass thru most metallic material.

[Da Rolling Eye]

Can't travel within the US or board a plane, open a bank account or get a job with Non-compliant documents??? Now that sounds spooky, as in Nazi Germany or old communist Russia....or did I read that wrong? :(

[Miulang]

Can't travel within the US or board a plane, open a bank account or get a job with Non-compliant documents??? Now that sounds spooky, as in Nazi Germany or old communist Russia....or did I read that wrong? :(
Nope, you read it right!:mad: And for you guys in Hawai'i, it's extra bad. At least people on CONUS can travel by car to get between states. You guys---with water all around you---will have loads of problems travelling anywhere off your home island. Even HSF will require a passport!:eek: You could always swim the channels or buy your own boat or surfboard, I guess. The only other thing you guys can do is lobby your State Legislature to find some money to convert all your driver's licenses to comply with the Act. It might only cost you $25-30 each to do that, compared to the $100 to get a passport. The Washington State legislature already has told the State Dept. "no way Jose" unless the feds come up with some funding.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Foil impairs only a range of frequencies. The higher the frequency, the easier to block. Low frequencies simply pass thru most metallic material.

Then the next question would be, what frequency does the passport RFID operate at? If in the upper band, then foil would do the trick. This is of course, also factoring in that supposedly the info on the chip is encrypted and the RFID chip works only at super close proximity. With all these separate measures combined, the chip should be relatively safe.

Also, I doubt different brands of foil will be of different material. But if you can find foils of different material and use them together, that further interferes with someone trying to scan your chip.

[joshuatree]

This is going to be quite the moneymaker for the US State Dept. because each new passport costs the applicant close to $100 (plus the cost of 2 photos) and a renewal costs $67.

Miulang


Don't get me started on those jerks. It's all about ripping you off. Try giving them a call these days. You'll be lucky if your hold time is only an hour. Then just when you get someone, they hang up on you when you question some of their practices. Wish I could sue them.

[Miulang]

Don't get me started on those jerks. It's all about ripping you off. Try giving them a call these days. You'll be lucky if your hold time is only an hour. Then just when you get someone, they hang up on you when you question some of their practices. Wish I could sue them.
I applied for my passport renewal in January and it took 6 weeks to get the new one (they cashed my check for $67 right away, though!:rolleyes: ). And people who applied after Feb. are having to wait more than 8 weeks to get their passports, unless they want to pay extra to expedite (that's because people waited to apply for passports until they realized that they couldn't fly to Canada or Mexico without one and for now you don't need passports to fly to Puerto Rico or the Virgin Islands or Guam). If people drag their feet about applying for their passports now, can you imagine how long it's going to take during the last 6 months of 2009???:eek: Only about 25% of all Americans carry valid US passports right now.

Miulang

[Kaukura]

There's been talks of recent about having some sort of national identity card. maybe this is moving towards that direction. As of right now, the only single document I can think of that is accepted in each state as well as abroad is the US passport. Some states have drivers licenses that do not even have a photo.

Most countries in Europe and other countries have national identity cards and have had them for eons. Many of those countries require you to carry them at all times.

[Miulang]

There's been talks of recent about having some sort of national identity card. maybe this is moving towards that direction. As of right now, the only single document I can think of that is accepted in each state as well as abroad is the US passport. Some states have drivers licenses that do not even have a photo.

Most countries in Europe and other countries have national identity cards and have had them for eons. Many of those countries require you to carry them at all times.

But for us freedom-loving Americans, having anything that resembles a national ANYTHING is anathema, hence the ruckus. So when is a "national ID card" not called a national ID card? When the State Dept calls it a US passport.:mad:

Miulang

[joshuatree]

But for us freedom-loving Americans, having anything that resembles a national ANYTHING is anathema, hence the ruckus. So when is a "national ID card" not called a national ID card? When the State Dept calls it a US passport.:mad:

Miulang

I actually don't mind a national ID card. There's nothing anti-freedom so long as it's used properly. If we are gunning for a national ID, just make it mandatory that everyone has a US passport. Two birds with one stone. The only thing that I would be fighting for then is cheaper prices on passports. They are a ripoff at the moment. And pics should be included, shesh. If I have to provide the pics, then I shouldn't be restricted to dang mugshots.

[Miulang]

I actually don't mind a national ID card. There's nothing anti-freedom so long as it's used properly. If we are gunning for a national ID, just make it mandatory that everyone has a US passport. Two birds with one stone. The only thing that I would be fighting for then is cheaper prices on passports. They are a ripoff at the moment. And pics should be included, shesh. If I have to provide the pics, then I shouldn't be restricted to dang mugshots.
I'm sure the State Dept. would retort that the price of a passport today is CHEAP if you amortize it over the 10-year life of the passport. ("What?! It's really only costing you $10 a year to be able to move freely about your own country!") :p

Miulang

[joshuatree]

I'm sure the State Dept. would retort that the price of a passport today is CHEAP if you amortize it over the 10-year life of the passport. ("What?! It's really only costing you $10 a year to be able to move freely about your own country!") :p

Miulang

It's $18 for a six year license in HI so that's $3 a year. $27 for five years in Cali. What is it in WA? $25 for how many years? The State Dept ain't gonna win with their pathetic justification. Especially with their "expedite" fee. Can you say money whore? Maybe if they let me throw ones in their faces to degrade them, then I be content. :p

I wouldn't be so ticked off if they at least offered better customer service.

[Miulang]

It's $18 for a six year license in HI so that's $3 a year. $27 for five years in Cali. What is it in WA? $25 for how many years? The State Dept ain't gonna win with their pathetic justification. Especially with their "expedite" fee. Can you say money whore? Maybe if they let me throw ones in their faces to degrade them, then I be content. :p

I wouldn't be so ticked off if they at least offered better customer service.We pay $25 for a 5-year license. And we can renew our licenses once online, which means not having to go to a DOL office for eye exams for 10 years! Fortunately for me, my local DOL office is about a block away from where I live.

I know what you mean about lousy service from the State Dept. Used to be that you could get a passport by showing up at the local Immigration Office (now part of Homeland Security). Now everything is done via the mails.

And what does that US passport do for you when you travel abroad? Well, it certainly can't guarantee your safety. The US Embassies' main goal is to encourage US business interests abroad, not to protect us poor American citizens who sometimes get caught in precarious situations. Remember the FUBAR evacuation of Americans out of Beirut last year?????:mad:

Miulang

[Da Rolling Eye]

I actually don't mind a national ID card. There's nothing anti-freedom so long as it's used properly. If we are gunning for a national ID, just make it mandatory that everyone has a US passport. Two birds with one stone. The only thing that I would be fighting for then is cheaper prices on passports. They are a ripoff at the moment. And pics should be included, shesh. If I have to provide the pics, then I shouldn't be restricted to dang mugshots.

IMHO, it's a dangerous imposition on freedom, privacy, time and funds. A heck of a lot of families with choke kids are going to be SOOL as they won't be able to afford a "mandatory" ID, much less taking time off from work to spend long hours waiting in long lines or whatever it's going to take. Forget about that trip to Disneyland that they spent years saving up for, as the funds just went to getting stupid IDs just to travel in our own country. Personally, I resent the whole idea. On the CONUS, it probably won't be long before "check points" will be established between states. So, Miulang, you ain't out of the woods yet. ;)

"There's nothing anti-freedom so long as it's used properly." That statement says alot. Hitler used exactly this type of information to disarm the Jews. Our own country has misused such information and they'll continue to do so. They already have the capability to disarm Americans, as certain fed agencies already have access to gun owner's information. Not info on criminals who own guns, but that family next door that you go over once a month to share a backyard kalbi BBQ dinner with and you had no idea that the husband also owns a $10,000 shotgun that he keeps locked up and uses for skeet and trap shooting at monthly matches.

Next they'll be telling us we don't need to be carrying no steenking cards. Just let us inject this here micro chip in your necks....you sheep. Aiya! :rolleyes: ;)

[Miulang]

On the CONUS, it probably won't be long before "check points" will be established between states. So, Miulang, you ain't out of the woods yet. ;)



I'm not worried because I already have a passport that's good until 2017!;)
Yes, it's going to be a real nightmare for families with choke kids because each one will have to have a passport (maybe the State Dept. will give discounts for passports for children under the age of 16, since those children wouldn't be able to work, which is one of the times when you'll need some sort of legal ID in order to work). But nowadays, even newborns are issued SS#s to track them from the time they leave the hospital (and parents need those numbers for their income tax returns), so yeah, I think it's another one of those stupid laws (like No Child Left Behind) which might have good intentions but zero forethought about execution (the hows and the whens).

Miulang

[Surfingfarmboy]

I applied for a US passport in January, received it in March. I had to get one as I will be traveling to Okinawa in three weeks for a very brief period of time, and then later in the year (December) I will be off to Hong Kong and Macau. Cost me $97 plus $8 for photos taken at CVS.

Like Miulang mentioned, there is a Hawaii connection to my (and presumably every other recently issued) passport. I was surprised to see the picture of Diamond Head (okay, okay: Le'ahi) on the last page of where the passport is stamped. There is even a quotation by Ellison Onizuka attributed to him on the same page. This totally caught me off guard when I was first thumbing through the images of Americana, as I was going through each one of the scenes, identifying where they were or might be at in the USA, and while at the same time thinking to myself.."Sure..I bet Hawaii is going to be left out". I turn the last page over, and as bright as day, there it is in all its glory...Diamond Head!

[joshuatree]

IMHO, it's a dangerous imposition on freedom, privacy, time and funds. A heck of a lot of families with choke kids are going to be SOOL as they won't be able to afford a "mandatory" ID, much less taking time off from work to spend long hours waiting in long lines or whatever it's going to take. Forget about that trip to Disneyland that they spent years saving up for, as the funds just went to getting stupid IDs just to travel in our own country. Personally, I resent the whole idea. On the CONUS, it probably won't be long before "check points" will be established between states. So, Miulang, you ain't out of the woods yet.

"There's nothing anti-freedom so long as it's used properly." That statement says alot. Hitler used exactly this type of information to disarm the Jews. Our own country has misused such information and they'll continue to do so. They already have the capability to disarm Americans, as certain fed agencies already have access to gun owner's information. Not info on criminals who own guns, but that family next door that you go over once a month to share a backyard kalbi BBQ dinner with and you had no idea that the husband also owns a $10,000 shotgun that he keeps locked up and uses for skeet and trap shooting at monthly matches.

Next they'll be telling us we don't need to be carrying no steenking cards. Just let us inject this here micro chip in your necks....you sheep. Aiya! :rolleyes: ;)

Well, that was my second point. If there is to be a national ID, it might as well be the passport because it's already a working system, minimize cost. Then, if it is mandatory, they need to drop the prices of the passport, simple business knowledge, if you are going to bump the volume up, you can lower the price per unit.

Yes, freedom can be threatened by misuse of a national ID, but so is using your credit card, signing a rental lease, etc. Key is checks and balances. But a lot of problems in this country today, illegal immigration, ID theft, etc, is also because of a lack of a centralized system of ID.

Gun debate? I'll leave that one for another thread. :)

[Da Rolling Eye]

"Well, that was my second point. If there is to be a national ID, it might as well be the passport because it's already a working system, minimize cost. Then, if it is mandatory, they need to drop the prices of the passport, simple business knowledge, if you are going to bump the volume up, you can lower the price per unit."

....but many will still be asking....Why do we need a passport to travel in our own homeland? That's exactly like living in a facist state and traveling from town to town and being stopped at checkpoints to check your travelling papers and intinerary, making sure you're authorized to be where you are. As far as I'm concerned, if I want to go to Disneyland, it's nobody elses business to know when, where and who except those family members that need to know. Geez, the US is my home afterall. :(

"Yes, freedom can be threatened by misuse of a national ID, but so is using your credit card, signing a rental lease, etc. Key is checks and balances. But a lot of problems in this country today, illegal immigration, ID theft, etc, is also because of a lack of a centralized system of ID."

There you have it. Then why do we need a centralized system at all?
ID theft is always going to happen and can't really see how a centralized system would reduce it or relieve the grief it causes the vics. Illegal immigration.....laws are simply not being enforced, either being lax or on purpose. Illegals wouldn't be in the system anyway. Das wai dey illegoh, ah? :)

"Gun debate? I'll leave that one for another thread."

Nononononono no more gun debates. I was just trying to make a point.

Here's what I think. The fed powers that be just want your information at their fingertips so they don't have to do all that legwork to find the same information elsewhere. In the name of Homeland security, that's fine and dandy.....if the info is for a known terrorist. As for giving up certain freedoms for the sake of "security", remember, give them an inch............ and that's all I have to say about this whole ting. No like, dis is political an I paaauuu. :D

[craigwatanabe]

Then the next question would be, what frequency does the passport RFID operate at? If in the upper band, then foil would do the trick. This is of course, also factoring in that supposedly the info on the chip is encrypted and the RFID chip works only at super close proximity. With all these separate measures combined, the chip should be relatively safe.

Also, I doubt different brands of foil will be of different material. But if you can find foils of different material and use them together, that further interferes with someone trying to scan your chip.


Ahh but if I told you that, I'd be compromising national security. That's top secret, but I bet you could find it if you did a google search:rolleyes: The best block of RF is lead. It's dense enough to stop any RF from penetrating.

And there's no such syntax as close proximity.

[Miulang]

Ahh but if I told you that, I'd be compromising national security. That's top secret, but I bet you could find it if you did a google search:rolleyes: The best block of RF is lead. It's dense enough to stop any RF from penetrating.

And there's no such syntax as close proximity.
Yup, and that's why you get such crap reception for any wireless device (phone, pager, etc.) in the basement of a hospital or near a radiology room, which has to be lead lined.

Miulang

[blueyecicle]

Ugh I looked it all up and it will be nearly 500.00 for all of us to get passports!
Good lord, what family can afford that out of the blue??

But I plan on going to the Bahamas when we get settled so I better start budgeting now.:(

[joshuatree]

...but many will still be asking....Why do we need a passport to travel in our own homeland? That's exactly like living in a facist state and traveling from town to town and being stopped at checkpoints to check your travelling papers and intinerary, making sure you're authorized to be where you are. As far as I'm concerned, if I want to go to Disneyland, it's nobody elses business to know when, where and who except those family members that need to know. Geez, the US is my home afterall. :(

Well, that's the misconception of carrying a passport in your own homeland. I have a passport, when I travel abroad, yep it's going from checkpoint to checkpoint (customs), getting it stamped, etc. But when at home, it's no different than your Driver's License. I've tried using my passport at the bank, registering with HR at the new job, going into a club. No one stamps it nor do I have to go through any checkpoints. A passport used within the country is merely another ID like your Driver's License.



There you have it. Then why do we need a centralized system at all?
ID theft is always going to happen and can't really see how a centralized system would reduce it or relieve the grief it causes the vics. Illegal immigration.....laws are simply not being enforced, either being lax or on purpose. Illegals wouldn't be in the system anyway. Das wai dey illegoh, ah? :)

Well, it would actually help reduce ID theft. Driver's License was never intended to function as a form of ID, it was merely a license for one to drive. So a standardized national ID (passport) makes it easier to identify a fake one. If I showed you a Montana DL, would you even know what the real one would look like? I don't. :)

Also, some DMVs like Cali's had an issue with corrupt workers who sold real DL's for a price, ~$4000 a pop. Right now, I don't even know where passports are being made, I just know a new one gets mailed to me when I renew. So centralizing production of IDs will reduce the chance of crooks and forgeries. It will never eliminate the problem but it's all about keeping the problem under control.

Actually, many illegals are in the system. They assume people's IDs by using their SSNs, claim a whole bunch of exemptions so they get taxed little on the paycheck, then never bother filing taxes because the IRS won't be going after them but rather the victim. Think Dateline or some news reported one guy had his SSN used by 200+ illegals for jobs and he didn't know till the Feds came knocking on his door.

[joshuatree]

Ahh but if I told you that, I'd be compromising national security. That's top secret, but I bet you could find it if you did a google search:rolleyes: The best block of RF is lead. It's dense enough to stop any RF from penetrating.

And there's no such syntax as close proximity.

Well, I wasn't really asking for the specific freq but just merely pointing out a foil can still provide some cover depending on what the RFID freq is. Lead be great but I don't think they make lead foils? Possible, I have already see ads selling passport covers that claim to shield the RFID chip.

As for close proximity, I was actually thinking the other way around. A low power scanner would mean the RFID is only activated when real close like smart cards used in subways. But I'm sure crooks would be sporting high powered scanners. Maybe you need to wear a jammer with the passport? ECMs? :D

[Miulang]

Ugh I looked it all up and it will be nearly 500.00 for all of us to get passports!
Good lord, what family can afford that out of the blue??

But I plan on going to the Bahamas when we get settled so I better start budgeting now.:(
An alternative is to go to the US VI or Puerto Rico instead, because they are both considered part of the US. It'll be still the Caribbean, but you won't have to hassle with passports until 2010.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Maybe this national ID (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/us/09license.html)isn't such a hot idea after all...

The Homeland Security Department said Tuesday that it would plow ahead with national standards for driver’s licenses, despite a highly unusual level of activity by state legislatures opposed to the idea, and substantial second thoughts in Congress.

The department said it had received about 12,000 public responses to its draft rules, in a 60-day comment period that ended Tuesday. Russ Knocke, a spokesman, said the comments were mixed.

Comments at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing Tuesday were more negative. The chairman, Senator Patrick J. Leahy, Democrat of Vermont, complained that security rules were supposed to be “smart as well as tough” and predicted that state motor vehicle departments would not be able to cope with the requirements, which include verifying all documents presented by applicants. Even renewals will require birth certificates or other proof of legal residence. And the change will impose billions of dollars in costs on states and localities, Mr. Leahy and others said.


...According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, which has a clock on its Web page counting down the time until the law’s requirements take effect (368 days as of Tuesday), Washington and Montana have enacted laws pledging not to comply. In Idaho, the Legislature passed, and the governor signed, a budget specifying that expenditures for carrying out the law next year would be zero. Resolutions opposing the new licenses have been passed by one or both houses of the legislature, and in some cases signed by the governor, in Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Michigan, North Dakota and Utah.

...But Mr. Knocke, the spokesman for the Homeland Security Department, predicted that reluctant states would come around because people would demand it. Without the standardized licenses, they would need a passport to board an airliner, he said.

“Residents of non-Real ID-compliant states are going to displeased with their leadership,” he said.

While states have mostly complained about costs, others have raised privacy objections. The American Civil Liberties Union said Tuesday that the system as laid out by the Bush administration “streamlines identity theft.”


Miulang

[i-hungry]

You can use a lead bag that photographers use for protecting film at airport x-ray checks. Don't know how much they cost now but if you're paranoid about privacy then its probably worth getting.

[Miulang]

You can use a lead bag that photographers use for protecting film at airport x-ray checks. Don't know how much they cost now but if you're paranoid about privacy then its probably worth getting.
Wouldn't you look kinda silly with a lead bag over your head though?:D

Miulang

[Vanguard]

Let's say you already have a passport. Can you replace it and reset your expiration date without reporting it stolen (i.e. "I uhh, don't like my picture! yeah that's it!")?

[Miulang]

Let's say you already have a passport. Can you replace it and reset your expiration date without reporting it stolen (i.e. "I uhh, don't like my picture! yeah that's it!")?
I no tink so. Besides, that would probably ring some kind of Homeland Security alert ("now why would this person want to replace the picture on an active passport?":eek: )

Miulang

[shaveice]

if one's passport is good, say, till 2010, can you apply to extend it another 10 years (or whatever the time period is) now? off hand, i don't think so but i guess i'd consider it if it's an option...

[Miulang]

if one's passport is good, say, till 2010, can you apply to extend it another 10 years (or whatever the time period is) now? off hand, i don't think so but i guess i'd consider it if it's an option...
Not unless it was stolen or you lost it (and at this point, why would you want to renew it and pay an extra $67... plus your old passport doesn't have that RFID chip embedded in it).

Miulang

[shaveice]

Not unless it was stolen or you lost it (and at this point, why would you want to renew it and pay an extra $67... plus your old passport doesn't have that RFID chip embedded in it).

Miulang

ha! a clear indication that i had too many coronas with some ono nachos and salsa!