Leave the islands to the locals?

[ChicagoGuy75]

First of all, please no one take offense to this and I am not mad or anything when writing this but there's something that has been bugging me.

I was planning to move to Hawaii but I read about all these people moving there. My problem now is, is everyone moving there taking good jobs away from the locals? Also housing and ETC. I also heard that locals get some type of credit to make up the difference of living cost from the government.

I would feel like absolute sh$t if I moved to Oahu and was all happy when someone lost a chance for getting a good job. I have a good job where I am at and now just thinking that, maybe just visiting Hawaii and leave the island to the locals might be a better situation.

Am I wrong for thinking this?

[Lei K]

You have a good heart for even thinking that far into things.

[ChicagoGuy75]

You have a good heart for even thinking that far into things.

Thanks for the comment. When I lived on Oahu, I was a teenager and a part time job at a movie theater was all I needed. Like most people, I want a communitee (no matter where it is) to be a positive one, and maybe visiting would be the better decision.

But when I go on vacation this year, I will enjoy Hawaii for what it is, somewhere beautiful.

[Kaukura]

I dont know. Can't answer that. But when I moved here, I applied just like anybody else could have/did and found my job that way.

I "may" have come here with a different perspective on things, working for a large mainland bank for several years "may" have been seen as a fresh new direction with ideas that impressed them. I dont know.

Back in San Francisco, I met a guy who moved there from Honolulu just before I moved here. He got a job that I would have liked to have. Maybe it works both ways. Your life. Your decision.

[ChicagoGuy75]

Kaukura, yeah I hear you on the oppurtunity being my decision.

Pre-Sept. 11th I was a customs broker and had the chance to work in Japan, that's when I learned about their working programs that I would only be allowed a Short Term Visa and then would have to leave after a few years if I didn't apply for citizenship in Japan.

I guess this is a regular practice businesses in Japan has, and when I thought about moving to Hawaii that idea has been buzzing around my head. I know Hawaii doesn't have a short term Visa but I can understand that in Japan that they would want to hold jobs for their citizens.

I think it's more that I would be going to Hawaii without a job transferring me out there and would have to apply for a job when arriving.

[ErikaMarie]

In a way, I agree w/ you. In a way... I don't.

In my case, Hawaii does not have a nurse anesthetist school, so they are in desperate need, & are willing to pay $165k base per year starting.

All states need teachers, & my soon to be fiance is just that... So I don't see that we're taking away jobs from anyone.

BTW, jobs are out there for everyone to take. Some are harder to get than others... but your job now will open up when you leave, & the mainland has unemployed people just the same as Hawaii.

I would hope; however, that people who were born in Hawaii would have a higher chance of getting a job... That sounds illegal but it only seems fair, to me.

[WindwardOahuRN]

In my case, Hawaii does not have a nurse anesthetist school, so they are in desperate need, & are willing to pay $165k base per year starting.



Just curious---where did you get the " $165K base/yr" starting pay figure for CRNA's?

I've never heard it quoted that high but it would be nice. :)

[TATTRAT]

I agree with you, ChicagoGuy. It is a tough call. here is my take:

I am form Bermuda, but share a dual citizenship with the U.S.of A. I am very grateful. In Bermuda, locals have priority in the job market, if it can not be filled, THEN, others are considered. Here comes the double edged sword...If you fill a position with an outtie(outsider) their stay on the island can not exceed 4 years. Bermuda is a HUGE off shore financial hub as there is no taxes. There are a LOT of HUGE world wide known corporations that have buildings in BDA, and after 4 years, the person they have hired is acclimated, it tune with the job, stable, and then guess what...they have to leave.

I do not wish to offend anyone here, and the main reason I joined this site was to learn of another islands culture before I moved there. I know that there will/can be, certain Island prejudices(for lack of a better word), BUT it is the price anyone pays for moving to an island. Though Hawaii is a part of the United States, as Bermuda is to the UK, there is a sense of "should be welcoming", but that is not always the case.

Kudos for thinking of others, that is what I was doing in my first initial post here at HT. I wanted to be as respectful as possible to a culture that, even if a part of the U.S., was in fact very different from what I have experienced in the conus.

When it comes to work though, I am in the camp that, if the position is open, it is there for the taking. To me, the job market is fair game, and if you want it, you MUST pursue it. I am sure that there is a hierarchy involved but if you have a chance to get a foot in the door, do it. Jobs are open for a reason, and if a company is willing to have someone from the mainland move out to fill the position, then it must be for a reason. In my line of work, back in Bermuda, jobs were ALWAYS open. BDA natives want to relax and party at nigh, not be sweating it out in a kitchen till 3am, 6 days a week, and that is why the work force is diverse. What the locals choose not to do, someone else will.

I guess my point is, no matter where you are, if a job is open, it is there for the taking. It is up to the employer to make the call for there. If the employer wishes to give locals a priority, which I have NO issue with, then that is their right. If blessed with an opportunity, do it to it.

[ErikaMarie]

Just curious---where did you get the " $165K base/yr" starting pay figure for CRNA's?

I've never heard it quoted that high but it would be nice. :)

I read it somewhere many months ago, but I found this for ya:

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_localrangebell.asp?jobtitle=Certified+Nurse+A nesthetist&metrocode=250&geo=Honolulu%2C+HI+96801&narrowcode=HC05&zipcode=96801&yearsofexp=&jobcode=HC07000007&r=salswz_swzmatbll_psr&narrowdesc=Healthcare+--+Nursing&wsrcode=SW2&isswzupdateoptin=&isjswupdateoptin=&isnewsoptin=&choosesignup=0

[WindwardOahuRN]

I read it somewhere many months ago, but I found this for ya:

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_localrangebell.asp?jobtitle=Certified+Nurse+A nesthetist&metrocode=250&geo=Honolulu%2C+HI+96801&narrowcode=HC05&zipcode=96801&yearsofexp=&jobcode=HC07000007&r=salswz_swzmatbll_psr&narrowdesc=Healthcare+--+Nursing&wsrcode=SW2&isswzupdateoptin=&isjswupdateoptin=&isnewsoptin=&choosesignup=0

Very cool. Best of luck to you! :)

[Da Rolling Eye]

I also heard that locals get some type of credit to make up the difference of living cost from the government.


The only locals I know that get anykind of COLA (cost of living allowance) increase annually are fed or state employees. Don't know about state, but feds usually get less than 5%. I'm on fed disability and "sometimes" get a 2.5% increase in my benefits. Makes it rough living on a fixed income. :(

[poinographer]

Is your disability payment reduced an amount equal to whatever amount (if any) you earn via employment?

[Glen Miyashiro]

The only locals I know that get anykind of COLA (cost of living allowance) increase annually are fed or state employees. Don't know about state, but feds usually get less than 5%. I'm on fed disability and "sometimes" get a 2.5% increase in my benefits. Makes it rough living on a fixed income. :(Bzzzzt. State employees don't get a COLA at all. By contrast, the Feds get 25% (https://www.opm.gov/oca/cola/rates.asp).

[Glen Miyashiro]

First of all, please no one take offense to this and I am not mad or anything when writing this but there's something that has been bugging me.

I was planning to move to Hawaii but I read about all these people moving there. My problem now is, is everyone moving there taking good jobs away from the locals? Also housing and ETC.Yup. And yup.

I also heard that locals get some type of credit to make up the difference of living cost from the government.Bwaaaaahaahaah! Who told you that? :rolleyes:

I would feel like absolute sh$t if I moved to Oahu and was all happy when someone lost a chance for getting a good job. I have a good job where I am at and now just thinking that, maybe just visiting Hawaii and leave the island to the locals might be a better situation.

Am I wrong for thinking this?No. Stay home.

[ChicagoGuy75]

I am happy that people got involved in this conversation and was openly with their comments.

I am sure this was one of those conversations that some people don't want to discuss but is there in the back of their minds.

Whether moving or not to Hawaii seems more of a lacking question now, I am more looking forward to visiting my old neighborhood on Oahu and seeing some old friends.

[Mike_Lowery]

Yup. And yup.

Bwaaaaahaahaah! Who told you that? :rolleyes:

No. Stay home.
My feelings, exactly. Traffic has quadrupled in my area in the last year. Someone builds a road, and clowns are like, "hey, why not build 3058 more subdivisions along this road?" :cool:

[sinjin]

First of all, please no one take offense to this and I am not mad or anything when writing this but there's something that has been bugging me.

I was planning to move to Hawaii but I read about all these people moving there. My problem now is, is everyone moving there taking good jobs away from the locals? Also housing and ETC. I also heard that locals get some type of credit to make up the difference of living cost from the government.

I would feel like absolute sh$t if I moved to Oahu and was all happy when someone lost a chance for getting a good job. I have a good job where I am at and now just thinking that, maybe just visiting Hawaii and leave the island to the locals might be a better situation.

Am I wrong for thinking this?What if those good jobs exist because some other mainlander moved to Hawaii and created them. Do locals have a claim on those?

[WindwardOahuRN]

What if those good jobs exist because some other mainlander moved to Hawaii and created them. Do locals have a claim on those?

There are job openings here because they need to be filled. They should be filled by those who are most qualified to fill them. Mainland transplant or local, let the person who is most qualified win.

You'll probably find that preference is given to qualified locals anyway. Not necessarily out of warm and fuzzy feelings---just good business sense, considering that the average stay of a transplanted professional (of any profession) in Hawaii is about eighteen months. :eek:

[sinjin]

There are job openings here because they need to be filled. They should be filled by those who are most qualified to fill them. Mainland transplant or local, let the person who is most qualified win.

You'll probably find that preference is given to qualified locals anyway. Not necessarily out of warm and fuzzy feelings---just good business sense, considering that the average stay of a transplanted professional (of any profession) in Hawaii is about eighteen months. :eek:I work for the State of California. California actively recruits on college campuses around the nation to entice qualified applicants to relocate and thereby hire the best people from the largest pool. Does the State of Hawaii do that? Hell no. They require that you reside in the State for a year before you can even apply except in cases of extreme shortages of applicants. How does that serve the majority of residents?

[GnosticWarrior]

I believe in the best person for the job. From anywhere. I personally don't like the development that has occured on Oahu but, I neither own the land or have much say in the matter. There's a difference in who lives in Hawaii and who owns Hawaii. So if a person can afford a dwelling here and find a job to sustain it, that is you're right to do so. Obviously the people who own Hawaii has made it available to you. I just hope the people who migrate here are nice. I think I have the right to do the same in any of the other 49 states. I respect the laws of the U.S. and although its not perfect, I don't see a better system out there.

[sinjin]

I believe in the best person for the job. From anywhere. I personally don't like the development that has occured on Oahu but, I neither own the land or have much say in the matter. There's a difference in who lives in Hawaii and who owns Hawaii. So if a person can afford a dwelling here and find a job to sustain it, that is you're right to do so. Obviously the people who own Hawaii has made it available to you. I just hope the people who migrate here are nice. I think I have the right to do the same in any of the other 49 states. I respect the laws of the U.S. and although its not perfect, I don't see a better system out there.I personally have no problem attempting to homegrow qualified applicants through scholarship and/or apprenticeship. But giving preference to locals simply because they are locals by placing obstacles to potentially more qualified outlanders seems a disservice to the people of Hawaii.

[1stwahine]

Hmmmmm....Jobs are jobs. Anyone who meets the qualifications and can do the job should get the job. Example: HPD recruits from all over the United States. In the 156 Cadet Class there were many Local and a handful of Recruits from the Conus. More than 1/2 of the Cadets were eliminated. The Cadets from the Conus are ALL graduating on July 11th.

It doesn't matter where one comes from. There are Jobs!!! If you want to work ~ and you have the skills as well as the drive in what you want to achieve, you will make it no matter where you go.

Just my 2cents.

Auntie Lynn:D

[GnosticWarrior]

I personally have no problem attempting to homegrow qualified applicants through scholarship and/or apprenticeship. But giving preference to locals simply because they are locals by placing obstacles to potentially more qualified outlanders seems a disservice to the people of Hawaii.

Yes I agree! I think your idea of scholarships and/or apprenticeship programs to promote homegrown applicants are good ones. And while I would prefer locals, I prefer abilities even more. If local people truly care about Hawaii, they will lose this "It's who you know, not what you know" mentality. In the long run, in a competetive world, it's always what you know. Cronyism and nepotism, is bad for Hawaii. Captitalism and developing our ability to compete in the global world is good for Hawaii.

[LikaNui]

I also heard that locals get some type of credit to make up the difference of living cost from the government. Nothing from the government (that I can think of), but perhaps whoever told you that was thinking of the "kama`aina discounts" that some places give if you show proof of residency here?
A lot less of those discounts being offered these days, sadly...

:(

[cezanne]

You have a good heart for even thinking that far into things.

True dat.

To me, the jobs here are fair game to all. Besides there are lots of local people here who are leaving the islands for "better" opportunities on the mainland.

[Leo Lakio]

Of course, how do you define "locals?"

* People who were born in Hawai`i and never lived anywhere else?
* People who were born in Hawai`i, but who lived elsewhere and then returned?
* People who have family and roots in the Islands, even if they were born Mainland but now live Hawai`i?
* Anyone who has lived in the Islands for at least 20 years, no matter their origin?
* Anyone who doesn't honk their car horn? :D
* Anyone who isn't originally a Mainland haole? (There are many who would pick this option - even if they won't say so.) :eek:

Of course, you could always answer my question with the popular evasive reply: "If you gotta ask, you'll never know the answer."

[Glen Miyashiro]

You'll probably find that preference is given to qualified locals anyway. Not necessarily out of warm and fuzzy feelings---just good business sense, considering that the average stay of a transplanted professional (of any profession) in Hawaii is about eighteen months. :eek:That observation matches with my own experience... but I've never seen any hard statistics to back it up. Do you have some? If so, I would love to know so I can use 'em too!

[WindwardOahuRN]

Nothing from the government (that I can think of), but perhaps whoever told you that was thinking of the "kama`aina discounts" that some places give if you show proof of residency here?
A lot less of those discounts being offered these days, sadly...

:(

And just how many times do you need to go to the zoo or take a submarine ride? :D

And no, I have no hard statistics to back up the local vs mainland transplant hiring preference observation. The standard rationale for the practice is as I stated above---the propensity of transplants to leave Hawaii after less than two years here. Of course, there may be other reasons (oh say it isn't so).

[ChicagoGuy75]

What if those good jobs exist because some other mainlander moved to Hawaii and created them. Do locals have a claim on those?

Some people might not like this answer, but I would say as a business sense, the majority goes to the locals. It only makes sense that opening a business that serves the public would benefit from people from that area.

Someone mentioned about traffic getting worse since more housing is being built around highways. Over population is a major problem in Japan and in China, looking at those countries as examples, the results are very disturbing.

Lack of space and food can only bring down the economy. Pollution and garbage even becomes a problem.

Drive around and imagine the area being over populated by 5 times it is now, long lines are the grocery markets, over crowded beaches to a point that, as being someone from the area, wouldn't even enjoy living there.

I might sound like a bastard, but I say leave the islands to the locals.

[WindwardOahuRN]

I might sound like a bastard, but I say leave the islands to the locals.


Alrighty. Declare that all transplants, regardless of origin, pack up and head on back to where they came from. Deny all locals passage to the mainland. Return all locals to the islands. (Turnabout is fair play, after all.)

Then everything will fall gently into place, peace shall reign, and all will live happily ever after. :D

Of course, a good 75% or so of the nurses on my unit would be gone. So would a good chunk of nursing students. But it would all work out, I'm sure, eventually. Once all the defecting locally-born nurses were dragged kicking and screaming from their better-paying jobs in Northern California the staffing here would start to even out. After enough local-born nursing instructors were trained (most of the ones I see here are from the Phillippines or the mainland) things would get back on track. Lab staff would be a problem, too, along with....oh, you get the picture.

But it would be better. Really it would.

On a social note, all non-locally-born relatives of folks living here should be sent back to where they came from, too. Just to keep things fair, of course. Aloha, Tata---we love you dearly but ya just gotta go!

Yes, getting rid of all folks who were not born here would be a real good thing. Let's draw up a proposal and present it to the legislature. :p

[hedkikr]

Great topic. I've been "planning" to move to HI since college ('73) but @ each point, something made it impossible/ill-advised. Now, 2 1/2 years from soonest retirement, I'm "planning" again.

This thought (topic) also crossed my mind mainly since I've visited several times since 1976. It came to mind when I visited Hanauma Bay, noted the traffic in Waikiki, was restricted from getting to the toilet bowl...and last week saddeded by the closure of the Ocean View Restaurant (Kona) - now it's a generic, corporate, trendy, tourist-oriented eatery.

But keep in mind (as a Californian), there are SO many locals leaving the islands & ending up here. They all have Island Fever, want to make more $$$, own a home (also difficult in SoCal) and/or looking for more opportunities (scholstic & occupationally).

As a non-local, I'd vote for responsible immigration; essentially responsibly-minded people like yourself who have something of value to offer to the community. HI needs to be as self-sustaining as possible in the event oil prices make it impossible for Joe & Jane Average to fly their soon-to-be-pink bodies to HI for vacation.

(my 2 cents)

[timkona]

WindwardOahuRN is one of the more rational voices on this thread.

I like the way she highlights her points with dripping sarcasm to shed light on the pervasive ignorance that is part & parcel of life in Hawaii.

Having been here nearly 15 years, it is still surprising to me that so many in Hawaii embrace, nay, REVERE ignorance as if a virtue. You see it constantly in the Politics of NO.

Being stupid is neither funny nor cute. It is tragic.

[NoCal Boy]

Of course, how do you define "locals?"


I think this is the crux of the matter, and I find it telling that it's been unanswered so far in this thread.

This having been Asian American Heritage month and all, I'm reminded that being "local" is totally subjective, as Leo points out. One could make the argument that there are actually no such thing as "locals" in Hawaii. After all, didn't the Native Hawaiians themselves immigrate from across Polynesia? What's made our country great is the strength in diversity we've built from all the peoples who make up our population. If everyone had the "leave xxx to the locals" mentality, today I'd be SoChina Boy, never having met my wife who'd have been born and raised in Japan. ChicagoGuy could be RomeGuy or SeoulGuy or RioGuy. There would be no USA and all of our lives would be poorer for it. With the exception of the Native Americans, everybody in our country, including Hawaii, came from somewhere else at some point.

I might sound like a bastard, but I say leave the islands to the locals.

How far would you take this? Why stop at Hawaii? Should we in California take the same position against "non-locals?" I'm reminded regularly how lucky I am to be a "native" Californian when I meet people who make a life decision to move here from somewhere else. But I never hear of people hesitating to move here because they might take a job away from a "local". I know neither my grandparents nor my wife did before they moved here from Hawaii.

I'm going to take a wild stab and posit that the difference may be that it's impossible to tell at first glance whether one is "from" California. However, I'd venture to guess (and I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong) that when some "locals" first see a caucasian Hawaii resident their first impression might not be that he/she is even kama'aina.

Okay "locals", bring the pain!:p

[sinjin]

Native Americans are originally from Asia. Try telling them their status as "indigenous" is bogus.

Every year we have "Diversity Day" at my work. Booths for various ethnic groups etc. We even have had one for "Native" Califorrnians. Guess who proudly occupies that booth?

[NoCal Boy]

Native Americans are originally from Asia. Try telling them their status as "indigenous" is bogus.

Every year we have "Diversity Day" at my work. Booths for various ethnic groups etc. We even have had one for "Native" Califorrnians. Guess who proudly occupies that booth?

Well, I was going to go with "all humans are originally from the Pangea supercontinent" but I thought that was going too far.:p

I'm curious, is the intent of the native Californian booth a tongue-in-cheek kinda thing, or a nod to the native California tribes? Never heard of that one, even up here where the former "Columbus Day" is celebrated as "Indigenous Peoples Day". I'd guess most of the country would picture a native Californian looking like Jeff Spicoli.:D

[GnosticWarrior]

My definition of "Local" in the context of pertaining to Hawaii is someone who was at least born in Hawaii. It would be hard to black and white "Local". There's people who are nomadic so defining themselves based by Locale would be hard. Raised until adulthood would make it even easier to label one "Local". For me, once "Local" to Hawaii, it's for life. My grandmother was born in Japan, and lived there until age 5 until her parents immigrated to Hawaii. In my definition, she was never "Local" to Hawaii.

I didn't address this issue earlier cuz, why waste time labeling the children of the Earth? In the grander scale of things we all come from the same place.

[sinjin]

I'd guess most of the country would picture a native Californian looking like Jeff Spicoli.:DBingo! Exactly why I will have nothing to do with it and I was born in SoCal like my father before me(rare these days).

[greentara]

How far would you take this? Why stop at Hawaii? Should we in California take the same position against "non-locals?" I'm reminded regularly how lucky I am to be a "native" Californian when I meet people who make a life decision to move here from somewhere else. But I never hear of people hesitating to move here because they might take a job away from a "local". I know neither my grandparents nor my wife did before they moved here from Hawaii.


Okay "locals", bring the pain!:p

Exactly…I agree being from a place like SF, I have never thought of people from other places as taking away jobs from Natives. Living in Hawaii is not for everyone. When I tell people I’m moving they are shocked that I want to leave SF, where I was born. Some of those same people are from Hawaii. There are a lot of draw backs living on an Island ~ I know because I lived on one for nine years. But there is no question that some people are meant to live on an Island and I know I’m one of those people. It depends on how one relates to the locals. I’m not there to change their culture I’m there to honor their culture and walk lightly on the earth. You get what you put out....;)

BTW I love you're "don't call it Frisco" line my pet peeve:D

[acousticlady]

I'd guess most of the country would picture a native Californian looking like Jeff Spicoli.:D

They don't????? :p

[Glen Miyashiro]

State employees don't get a COLA at all. By contrast, the Feds get 25% (https://www.opm.gov/oca/cola/rates.asp).Then again, that might not last. Apparently there's talk about changing the system so that federal employees would get locality pay instead of a COLA (http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/02/news/story06.html).