Oh Man, Let the Finger Pointing Commence.

[ChicagoGuy75]

I was talking to someone at work and this conversation came up, and I have to ask.

When a friend of mine went to Ohio, the second they found out he was from Chicago they thought he would rob stores and shoot people.

When I was living on Hawaii, people said they thought I was too nice to be from a place like Chicago.
=======================================
So......with that in mind....where do you think the rudiest people come from when visiting? :D

And better yet, what is the first thing to come to mind when you hear they come from (their state)?

**Please note, the conversation I had at work was funny, hope this thread doesn't turn ugly.

[Random]

So......with that in mind....where do you think the rudiest people come from when visiting? :D
It's not location but the attitude that comes with the visiting person in question.

Although for me, I'm wary of people coming from the east than from the west. Of course, I hid it behind a polite smile. :)


And better yet, what is the first thing to come to mind when you hear they come from (their state)?
"Do I have my baton on my keychain?" (Don't own a gun yet.)

[Mike_Lowery]

hate to admit it, but I pay no attention to where they come from, but I umm...keep on my toes when the person is Caucasian. I'm just waaaaiting for them to show me how things are "supposed to be done." :rolleyes:

[shots fired]

[Kungpao]

[ducks under table]

In my tourist experience... some japanese tourists tend to be oblivious to their surroundings.


That's my nice way of saying those individuals have bumped in to me without acknowleging that they did or cutting in line (AS A GROUP) and even dare i say it... stepping on my feet without so much as an apology.

Course... me being from the East coast, area technically, I'm supposed to be the one that's pushy right? LOL "Hey I'm Walkin Here!":p

[sinjin]

[ducks under table]

In my tourist experience... some japanese tourists tend to be oblivious to their surroundings.


That's my nice way of saying those individuals have bumped in to me without acknowleging that they did or cutting in line (AS A GROUP) and even dare i say it... stepping on my feet without so much as an apology.I've found Chinese tourists to be far worse than the Japanese.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

**Please note, the conversation I had at work was funny, hope this thread doesn't turn ugly.

Get real.

[1stwahine]

**Please note, the conversation I had at work was funny, hope this thread doesn't turn ugly.

Get real.

heheheh....:p

[Leo Lakio]

hate to admit it, but I pay no attention to where they come from, but I umm...keep on my toes when the person is Caucasian. I'm just waaaaiting for them to show me how things are "supposed to be done." :rolleyes:

[shots fired]Frankly, ML, I'm glad you're willing to admit this out loud. Even if the behavior you described is a stereotype and a generalization (which means you know it can't be accurately applied to all), there might be a kernel of truth in it. I'm not going to sit here and make a reverse generalization about Caucasians NOT doing that, either - it would be equally inaccurate.

BUT, I can safely say that "my way is the best way" attitudes are not the sole property of any particular ethnic, racial, religious, cultural or geo-political group. Everyone tends to think that what's familiar to them is what's best in some fashion or another. Northerners do it when they travel in the American South, Chinese citizens do it when traveling in Europe, residents of Hawai`i do it when they are on the Mainland.

Only way to deal with it is to step outside your comfort zones when you are in an environment that is new or unfamiliar to you. Observe "local" ways with an attitude of "I don't recognize doing this that way - but I'm willing to give it a try." Keep awareness of your own attitudes, because you can't do a damn thing about anyone else's.

[Random]

Course... me being from the East coast, area technically, I'm supposed to be the one that's pushy right? LOL "Hey I'm Walkin Here!":p
You are where you come from. ;)

[sinjin]

You are where you come from. ;)No matter where you go, there you are.

[Peshkwe]

Oooo! Oooo!!

Condo Commandos!

Doesn't matter what ethnicity they are or location they originated from, seems like the all have the same attitude.

[glossyp]

The NY Times tackled the issue in the Travel section just this past week. Of course, they were looking at international travel as opposed to domestic, but it looks like the era of the "Ugly American" tourist has been superceded by the "Ugly Chinese" tourist. My personal favorites were always the "Euro Trash". They Came, They Toured, They Offended (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/weekinreview/27vite.html)

[WindwardOahuRN]

hate to admit it, but I pay no attention to where they come from, but I umm...keep on my toes when the person is Caucasian. I'm just waaaaiting for them to show me how things are "supposed to be done." :rolleyes:

[shots fired]

Yeah. Me too. (Shots successfully deflected.) :p

[WindwardOahuRN]

Deleted---falls under the heading of "why the hell bother?"

[Mike_Lowery]

And just what is it with the PC "caucasian" label being bandied about the forum? To me it sounds exquisitely euphemistic and vacuous, especially when the application implies another less generous moniker.


honestly, I've gradually moved to using "Caucasian" more than "haole" because I'd be a hypocrite to continue using "haole." I kinda don't like being referred to as a "Flip," "monkey," "dog eater," and worse, when on the mainland, "n_ _ _ _r".

[WindwardOahuRN]

honestly, I've gradually moved to using "Caucasian" more than "haole" because I'd be a hypocrite to continue using "haole." I kinda don't like being referred to as a "Flip," "monkey," "dog eater," and worse, when on the mainland, "n_ _ _ _r".

Aw gee, Mikey...I just deleted that post.

I notice locals at work using "caucasian" more frequently too. And I noticed that it happened after the Waikele haole-beating incident. It was very obvious, to me at least.

I have to say that I saw it as a bit of an attempt at reconciliation. I know that the people who were now referring to us white folks as caucasian had very certainly referred to us as haole only a short time ago.

I think they were ashamed, frankly. They didn't want to be part of something ugly. What else could I think?

The word haole, to me, has now come to approximate the N-word. Larry Price, the Waikele incident....there ya go.

It's not cute, it's not a homely Island colloquialism. It's an insult, and clearly meant as one. I didn't think that way when I first moved here. I think that way now.

I don't use Flip, Bukbuk, Chink, Jap, Nigger....why should I tolerate the use of a term of equal vitriol applied to me?

Oh yeah...because I deserve it. That "kernel of truth" crap.

And on that happy note, on California time, I'm outta here.

[Mike_Lowery]

Aw gee, Mikey...I just deleted that post.

I notice locals at work using "caucasian" more frequently too. And I noticed that it happened after the Waikele haole-beating incident. It was very obvious, to me at least.

I have to say that I saw it as a bit of an attempt at reconciliation. I know that the people who were now referring to us white folks as caucasian had very certainly referred to us as haole only a short time ago.

I think they were ashamed, frankly. They didn't want to be part of something ugly. What else could I think?

The word haole, to me, has now come to approximate the N-word. Frank Price, the Waikele incident....there ya go.

It's not cute, it's not a homely Island colloquialism. It's an insult, and clearly meant as one. I didn't think that way when I first moved here. I think that way now.

I don't use Flip, Bukbuk, Chink, Jap, Nigger....why should I tolerate the use of a term of equal vitriol applied to me?

Oh yeah...because I deserve it. That "kernel of truth" crap.

And on that happy note, on California time, I'm outta here.
Wonderful insights, you!

I figured I may as well stop making another wrong to make a right, because my family will never receive reparations for mistreatment on the plantations. :D

[LikaNui]

Frank Price, the Waikele incident....there ya go.


Larry Price.


;)

[WindwardOahuRN]

Wonderful insights, you!

I figured I may as well stop making another wrong to make a right, because my family will never receive reparations for mistreatment on the plantations. :D

Okay, one more shot.

I am now preparing petitions to be presented to Her Majesty the Queen of England, applying for reparations due my family for the decimation of Ireland in the late eighteenth century. I would, at the very least, like to be reimbursed for the fees incurred by my grandmother when she was forced to leave Ireland for the shores of Americay (not a misspelling) at the age of 16 thanks to the cruelties imposed by the English. I'd like a huge cash award but would be happy with a token settlement of a sack of potatoes. It's the thought that counts.

I would also like a bit of remuneration for the many family members who "disappeared" in Eastern Europe during the years preceding WWII. Parties in the lawsuit TBA (the principle players keep changing the names of their countries).

Class action suits for the Trail of Tears participants. Papa Doc victims. Can you say Idi Amin? I thought you could.

"Arbeit Macht Frei." Survivors---call 1-800-L'CHAIM.

The possibilities are endless.

[Keanu]

I don't think twice about using the word haole. I use it freely, without any qualms.

I certainly refuse to let transplants dictate the definition of hawaiian words to me.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Larry Price.


;)

LOL---do I have time to change it? Yeah...I think I do! :D

:::Where the heck did I get "Frank"??:::

Edit: done.

[Leo Lakio]

At present, the word "haole" doesn't bother me. I know the difference between "haole" and "haole," and I am NOT local, nor do I attempt to pass myself off as such.

But future circumstances may dictate a change, and I'm okay with some people being uncomfortable with the word.

Yes - that is a purposefully vague comment. G'night.

[1stwahine]

I am now preparing petitions to be presented to Her Majesty the Queen of England, applying for reparations due my family for the decimation of Ireland in the late eighteenth century. I would, at the very least, like to be reimbursed for the fees incurred by my grandmother when she was forced to leave Ireland for the shores of Americay (not a misspelling) at the age of 16 thanks to the cruelties imposed by the English. I'd like a huge cash award but would be happy with a token settlement of a sack of potatoes. It's the thought that counts.

I would also like a bit of remuneration for the many family members who "disappeared" in Eastern Europe during the years preceding WWII. Parties in the lawsuit TBA (the principle players keep changing the names of their countries).

Class action suits for the Trail of Tears participants. Papa Doc victims. Can you say Idi Amin? I thought you could.

"Arbeit Macht Frei." Survivors---call 1-800-L'CHAIM.

The possibilities are endless.

K-den. Wea do I stand in line foa mine....I'm a Lemurian descendant!:p

Yeeeehaaaaa!

Auntie Lynn;)

[WindwardOahuRN]

[QUOTE=Keanu;148074]I don't think twice about using the word haole. I use it freely, without any qualms.

Deleted. Not worth the keystrokes.

[1stwahine]

Forget it...Neba mind.

Carry on.

Auntie Lynn

[WindwardOahuRN]

The question for this thread was "So......with that in mind....where do you think the rudiest people come from when visiting?"

And so it began.:rolleyes:

Before it gets uglier.

STOP!!!

Life is too short to be wasted on fighting over an issue like this.

Love and ALOHA

Auntie Lynn:D

You're right, Lynn. I'm tired and getting nastier by the minute.

I'm headed for the edit button before it's too late.

[1stwahine]

You're right, Lynn. I'm tired and getting nastier by the minute.

I'm headed for the edit button before it's too late.

heheheh

You caught it before I took it off and I'm glad you did.

Good night RN!!;)

It's been a long day for me too.

Good night EVERYBODY!

I Love you ALL!!!

Auntie Lynn

[WindwardOahuRN]

At present, the word "haole" doesn't bother me. I know the difference between "haole" and "haole," and I am NOT local, nor do I attempt to pass myself off as such.

But future circumstances may dictate a change, and I'm okay with some people being uncomfortable with the word.

Yes - that is a purposefully vague comment. G'night.

:::Adjusting protective gauzy veil of vaguery about myself:::

G'night back atcha.

[Keanu]

Fine. In that vein, let the use of N****r prevail.

I don't see the connection. I was born and raised in Hawai'i and "haole" was always used to describe caucasians. Thanks but I don't need to be educated on the proper definition of a word I have used since I was a child.

My father refers to my son as his "haole" grandson because he is fair like his New York raised mother. Should I be upset at my father just because there are those like you who have a problem with the word? If you have a problem with the word, that's your problem, not mine.


Why should the silly sensitivities of those being insulted be considered?

Why should locals bend to the whims of transplants who lack the ability to conform? When I am a guess in someone's home, I don't dictate their house rules to them.


Pfft. Wimpasses should just toughen up already.

Oh...did I forget to mention slopeheads and gooks?

I don't use those words, either.

I'm not concerned about your choice of the usage of words.

[WindwardOahuRN]

I don't see the connection. I was born and raised in Hawai'i and "haole" was always used to describe caucasians. I find it extremely insulting that you, a transplant, feels so bold as to try and educate me on the proper definition of a word I have used since I was a child.

My father refers to my son as his "haole" grandson because he is fair like his New York raised mother. Should I be upset at my father just because there are those like you who gets their knickers in a bunch over the usage of the word? If you have a problem with the word, that's your problem, not mine.



Why should locals bend to the whims of transplants who lack the ability to conform? When I am a guess in someone's home, I don't dictate their house rules to them.



I'm not concerned about your choice of the usage of words.

Oh my. Substitute the mentality of the Old South, the vernacular used there, and it is a perfect analogy.

"It's what we've always called them." (Said with precious affection.)

Oh well....after all, it's only a word. :rolleyes:

I'm not all that concerned with your choice of word usage, either. Just observations. No demand to "bend to the whims."

Do what you want. Continue as you have always done. Whatever.

Just don't try to convince anyone with half a brain that it is nothing but an affectionate non-pejorative term.

That, Keanu, is truly insulting.

[Random]

LOL---do I have time to change it? Yeah...I think I do! :D

:::Where the heck did I get "Frank"??:::

Edit: done.
Oh, gee. I hope you're not thinking about Fasi unconsciously. :rolleyes:

[LikaNui]

Oh, gee. I hope you're not thinking about Fasi unconsciously. :rolleyes: That would be better than thinking of him consciously. :p
I thought maybe she meant DeLima. Or, since she's from New York, maybe Sinatra. Then again, she's in California now, maybe even Hollywood, so perhaps it was "Frankly, my dear.... "
And with that, we're right back on topic!

:D

[Keanu]

Oh my. Substitute the mentality of the Old South, the vernacular used there, and it is a perfect analogy.

"It's what we've always called them." (Said with precious affection.)

Oh well....after all, it's only a word. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: This is Hawai'i, not "the old south" so save your analogies, they mean nothing to me.


I'm not all that concerned with your choice of word usage, either. Just observations. No demand to "bend to the whims."

Do what you want. Continue as you have always done. Whatever.

Just don't try to convince anyone with half a brain that it is nothing but an affectionate non-pejorative term.

That, Keanu, is truly insulting.

Hmm, how ironic that you feel the need to express what you find "insulting".:rolleyes:

Fwiw, pickup a hawaiian dictionary and lookup the word's meaning for yourself.

[Lei K]

I'm with Keanu on this because I do not see a connection either.

My tutu and my mother's side of the family calls my husband their "haole boy" very lovingly. My middle son especially gets called their "haole" grandchild, also lovingly. I highly doubt my tutu, who writes my husband little love notes in our Christmas cards, looks down upon him like an old time southern person did a "n****r." Being looked down upon for no other reason than being born of her race is something she's VERY familiar with.

Do you know a lot of native Hawaiians that use haole as an insult?

By the way, speaking of a word that was very much used like the N word in a time not so long ago, lets not forget about how the word "kanaka" was used by the "haole" (their description of themselves, not mine) towards Hawaiians. :(

Please understand the true definition of haole. Also understand how Hawaiian people use the word towards their own fair skinned family members in a warm and loving way. Comparing haole to the N word is quite ridiculous. The N word was and is insulting in every context. The word haole has been in the Hawaiian vocabulary for a long time. Haole is a word that the white missionaries embraced to describe themselves. Did African Americans back in the day like being called n****r? So a word, a HAWAIIAN word, should not be used just because some (usually not Hawaiian) misuse it? I find that thought insulting.

All this political correctness is why people like Frank DeLima can't tell a damn joke anymore. Life on our islands used to be great, we used to be able to poke fun at eachother and laugh, no huhu. Now omgaaaaawd, do not call me a haole. Seriously, unless someone is using it as an insult then why get upset? You know, just as easily one of my "descriptions" can be used against me as an insult. Not just can be used, it HAS been used against me as an insult. But you know what, oh well, some people gonna be racist no matter what. Racist people come in all sorts of colors other than white. But on the most part, especially local kine, they like to joke, you know da dumb podagee jokes. I even say sometimes, "No can help, I get Podagee in me" and laugh. There's beauty in laughing about our differences, our quirks, and embracing that.

I get plenty descriptive terms, I'm a podagee, a kanaka, a cheap pake (lol) and damn proud. My keiki describe themselves as hapa-haole and have no shame. But maybe I'm living in a time that's lost forever and that's sad.

I don't know what else to say WORN, I like you, and hope you see where I'm coming from.

[ChicagoGuy75]

Okay.....so this wasn't the best thread to start.LOL.:rolleyes:

From nicknames and stuff alot of people use, I'll just go on the record and say that yes I am Japanese, yes I am also Native American, Polish and Danish.

My friends say hey Jap as a hello like a friendly rib but they would never say that when I am in certain company like other friends that are Japanese or in front of my parents, so the nicknames should really be used in certain company.

Alot of people I work with come from Texas and they say Chicago people are horrible drivers and rude. Anyone from Illinois knows if you travel to Wisconsin, you'll get a car horn beep, a middle finger and usually someone screaming, "Go home!!".

Me personally had nightmare experiences traveling thru Minnesota, and the deep south that involved getting guns pulled on me (also from cops) get strange looks to even that feeling it's time to leave.

My bad for starting this thread, just wanted to know what type or states people come from that you guys tend to think are just different, you might say.

[Kungpao]

You are where you come from. ;)

LOL The Philippines? Pleasanton, California? Indianapolis, Indiana? or Easton, Pennsylvania? :D


Edit: Wow this thread got ugly...

[sinjin]

The NY Times tackled the issue in the Travel section just this past week. Of course, they were looking at international travel as opposed to domestic, but it looks like the era of the "Ugly American" tourist has been superceded by the "Ugly Chinese" tourist. My personal favorites were always the "Euro Trash". They Came, They Toured, They Offended (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/weekinreview/27vite.html)From your link regarding Chinese tourists- “They behave as they would at home — there is a lot of pushing and shoving." This is what I experienced while visiting sites in Rome two summers ago.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Edit: Wow this thread got ugly...

Not really. Just people expressing opinions.

And I do know that the word "haole" can be used with affection. Perhaps the analogy I used was a bit out of line. Sorry about that.

But after living here over seven years now I have seen it used with more than a bit of disdain and lately, seen it used less often by locals who I know were using it more frequently previously. I truly was taken aback when I heard more than one use the word "caucasian" where they definitely would have used the word "haole" in the past.

It's been kinda weird. One guy has an extremely heavy local accent and often speaks pidgin. He was referring to me---a question about something local came up and I had the answer and he laughed and said "even the caucasian girl knows!" In the years I have worked with him I have never heard him use that word---always "haole." I was never insulted because he never used a nasty modifier. I can only think that he used the word "caucasian" because he decided that the word "haole" might be interpreted as insulting and he didn't want it to be.

I know the official definition of haole, as per Hawaiian dictionaries. No need to look it up. And if that definition was the only one that was ever intended by the use of the word this discussion would never even have come to pass.

[sinjin]

Not to throw rocks at the beehive but -

This is just my observation. Generally speaking, determining whether an appellation is offensive is the prerogative of the group to which it is applied.

Did I mention that I treasure you guys?:o

[WindwardOahuRN]

Not to throw rocks at the beehive but -

This is just my observation. Generally speaking, determining whether an appellation is offensive is the prerogative of the group to which it is applied.

Exactly. But knowing that a group or even an individual might find a word offensive should, in my opinion, send up a red flag to sensitive individuals that perhaps it's not all that advisable to use that word. If a word is open to misinterpretation as to its intention maybe it would be kinder to choose another word so as to avoid the possibility of offense.

No need for constantly feeling like you are walking on eggs but maybe just a bit of thinking before speaking might be nice. :)

[1stwahine]

Eeeeek!!!!!! Wat Happen???:eek:

I wen moemoe...wake-up to dis?

Is it SAFE?:p

Ok...ok. New day.

Everybody Honi Honi.

I'm HAOLE too.

Wat? I am. My grandson and grand-daughter WHITE!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Only ting I get Big Nose!!!!heheheheh

Made ya LAUGH!:D

[WindwardOahuRN]

Eeeeek!!!!!! Wat Happen???:eek:


Only ting I get Big Nose!!!!heheheheh

Made ya LAUGH!:D

Yeah, you did. :D

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Haole in its original usage, and in the 19th century metamorphosis was an empowering term. It was about origin and roots, not skin color and prejudice. But because lines have umbrageously blurred over the years I find myself in a generation where a word that meant nothing to me carries such power, that we are resorting to using clinical terms like "Caucasian" as if its sterility is somehow socially superior and effective than that which is a beautiful Hawaiian word.

This does not advance our society, imo. The solution is to take the meaning back. Haole is a type of kamaaina, along with Kepani, Pukiki and Pake. Malihini is for the tourist and the transplant. Eventually a malihini becomes kamaaina, and that individual determines when as part of his/her self-identity.

I am letting you all know now that this is the context as I grew up with, learned and understand the word, and how I use the word.