Plantation Hawaii Stikes Again.

[kamuelakea]

http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=6695307

So Hawaiis taxpayers will be giving employees laid off from Del Monte Plantation 1.2 million dollars to help them with rent and mortgage.

WHAT?

How many people in Hawaii have lost their jobs for whatever reason and no special bail out.

I thought that was what unemployment was for. Why cant they just collect unemployment like everyone else? Why cant the employer cover the costs the way many corporations do?

WHY?

Cuz they are "Planation" people.

I know they worked hard, I feel for their situation, but I dont see why one part of Hawaiis economy gets this special treatment.

UNREAL!

Wonder if the State Of Hawaii will bail out the TGIF Friday's who haven't even got a last pay check.

Doubt it.

[Menehune Man]

I Totally agree and understand the frustration!

I've lived here most of my life with a less than ten years away. (seeing the world).

Us regular joes who pay taxes and "just get by", unless fall into some special group, got's no programs foa us.

[Mike_Lowery]

I wouldn't say "plantation Hawaii strikes again." It's just a case of a union working for their employees.

[ploal5333]

I agree with you all here and I'm going off on a tangent - I feel the same way about affordable housing here. I don't see why the public feels gov't should provide affordable housing, whether it be in the form of rentals or ownership. In the old days if families couldn't afford a place to live they either lived with relatives or relocated to the Mainland. Whatever happened to 2nd or 3rd jobs? Budgeting?

America is so lazy. It's no wonder we're falling behind. :mad:

[Keanu]

I agree with you all here and I'm going off on a tangent - I feel the same way about affordable housing here. I don't see why the public feels gov't should provide affordable housing, whether it be in the form of rentals or ownership. In the old days if families couldn't afford a place to live they either lived with relatives or relocated to the Mainland. Whatever happened to 2nd or 3rd jobs? Budgeting?

America is so lazy. It's no wonder we're falling behind. :mad:


Government should at least provide a solution to affordable housing because they are partially responsible for the lack of affordable housing in the State.

As for the Del Monte employees, where are they supposed to go? you suggest they live with family or go to the contus, how feesible is that option for them considering their families live back in the Phillipines.

If their whole working lives have been involved in the Pineapple industry, what these people need is job training to help them find other forms of employment.

I really don't have a problem with my tax dollars going towards helping them.

Having worked in the Legislative branch of both State and City government, I know there are worse things our tax dollars could be used to fund.

[timkona]

Government should at least provide a solution to affordable housing because they are partially responsible for the lack of affordable housing in the State.

You sure about that?

Dwellings are a commodity. Therefore, price is a function of supply and demand. If anything, government responsibility for the lack of affordable dwellings starts and ends with over-regulation, which often stems from various forces in the Politics of NO, ie, EIS, Zoning, Bones, LUC, OSHA, etc. etc.

America has become an entitlement nation and the notion of personal responsibility has been abandoned. I feel sorry for the plantation folks, but the writing has been on the wall for 30 years, and that is enough time to plan for just about anything.

[kamuelakea]

Government should at least provide a solution to affordable housing because they are partially responsible for the lack of affordable housing in the State.

As for the Del Monte employees, where are they supposed to go? you suggest they live with family or go to the contus, how feesible is that option for them considering their families live back in the Phillipines.

I really don't have a problem with my tax dollars going towards helping them.

Having worked in the Legislative branch of both State and City government, I know there are worse things our tax dollars could be used to fund.

Going "Back" is what many people of many races have done when they lost jobs in Hawaii. They can go to the mainland like thousands of NATIVE HAWAIIANS have had to do.

Thank you for admitting that you even worked in the Plantation Asian state government. You and your type are the problem with Hawaii over the past 50 years.

If you believe in helping them, great. Get out your checkbook, put your money where your mouth is and give them some of your money. Let them move in with you. I'm serious. That's the way socialism should work. That's the Hawaiian way. Your way is the socialist asian way.

[Keanu]

Government should at least provide a solution to affordable housing because they are partially responsible for the lack of affordable housing in the State.

You sure about that?

Absolutely. You might have missed the part where I mentioned I worked for the legislative branch of both State and City government. You see Tim, I have an insight that you don't.


Dwellings are a commodity. Therefore, price is a function of supply and demand. If anything, government responsibility for the lack of affordable dwellings starts and ends with over-regulation, which often stems from various forces in the Politics of NO, ie, EIS, Zoning, Bones, LUC, OSHA, etc. etc.

If dwellings are a commodity, it is only because government has allowed it to be. That is about to change however. :)

Price is a function of supply and demand? If only it were that simple. As usual Tim, you are completely misguided on the issue. More regulation is needed, not less and from what I know, government agrees. Realty speculators should start looking for different ways to make money.:D

[Mike_Lowery]

Socialism, and maybe even communism, would be a solution to all society's inequalities. :cool:

[Keanu]

Going "Back" is what many people of many races have done when they lost jobs in Hawaii. They can go to the mainland like thousands of NATIVE HAWAIIANS have had to do.

I know of only 2 NATIVE HAWAIIANS that left for the contus when they lost a job in Hawaii, and one of them left for Alaska to pursue a hobby.


Thank you for admitting that you even worked in the Plantation Asian state government. You and your type are the problem with Hawaii over the past 50 years.

Plantation asian State government? sorry you're going to have to fill me in on this one.


If you believe in helping them, great. Get out your checkbook, put your money where your mouth is and give them some of your money. Let them move in with you. I'm serious. That's the way socialism should work. That's the Hawaiian way. Your way is the socialist asian way.

I don't have to, the State already does this for me. The State also sends my money to entities I personally don't support....you see I really don't have a say in the matter but that doesn't mean I have to be a whiney grump about it either.

[kamuelakea]

I know of only 2 NATIVE HAWAIIANS that left for the contus when they lost a job in Hawaii, and one of them left for Alaska to pursue a hobby.

Plantation asian State government? sorry you're going to have to fill me in on this one.

You are truly clueless and dangerous if you really do work for the state government.

You don't know what the Plantation Asian State government describes? Really?

As far as 2 Hawaiians leaving for hobbies, here is a link. California census 2005 estimates 145,830 Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders (.4%) lived in California only. Many if not most are Hawaiians. I know hundreds if not thousands who have left because of econmics.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html

You really need to get out of your Plantation Asian State government bubble. I don't think you can see the trees from the forest.

[Keanu]

You are truly clueless and dangerous if you really do work for the state government.Tsk, Tsk. I may be many things, clueless is not one of them.


You don't know what the Plantation Asian State government describes? Really?

Nope, not one that you are eluding to.You're just going to have to explain yourself.


As far as 2 Hawaiians leaving for hobbies, here is a link. California census 2005 estimates 145,830 Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders (.4%) lived in California only. Many if not most are Hawaiians. I know hundreds if not thousands who have left because of econmics.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html

Gee, I must have skipped over the part of the California census where it listed the number of Native Hawaiians who moved to California because they lost a job in Hawai'i.


You really need to get out of your Plantation Asian State government bubble.

And you need to stop being a whiney grouch. If I didn't know any better, I would have guessed that you were haole.

[kamuelakea]

And you need to stop being a whiney grouch. If I didn't know any better, I would have guessed that you were haole.

Not if,... you really don't know any better.

lemme guess, you one "local" ie Hawaiian Wanna Be but Nevah Will Be??????

I can't explain to you. You hopeless.

Either that or you one tourist.

[Keanu]

Not if,... you really don't know any better.

lemme guess, you one "local" ie Hawaiian Wanna Be but Nevah Will Be??????

I can't explain to you. You hopeless.

Either that or you one tourist.

I'm chuckling as I type. Sorry to burst your bubble but out of my four grandparents, only 1 had less than half Hawaiian koko. My grandma (Dad's mom) was a full blooded Kanaka. I don't have to wanna be Hawaiian, I am Hawaiian.

Let's not lose focus here. The topic of discussion is the 1.2 million in State funds that will be used to help these people out and for me this is not a big deal. If you really want to complain, you should take a look at the State and City budgets for a change. I'm sure you'd find much bigger issues to complain about.

[kamuelakea]

I'm chuckling as I type. Sorry to burst your bubble but out of my four grandparents, only 1 had less than half Hawaiian koko. My grandma (Dad's mom) was a full blooded Kanaka. I don't have to wanna be Hawaiian, I am Hawaiian.


This is message board BS.

You telling me you are a Hawaiian who knows only 2 Hawaiians that left Hawaii do to economics (job loss or no job, whatevah).

You telling me you have no idea what the term Plantation Asian State Government refers to?

Are you blind?

If you really are a Hawaiian, then I say as I sometimes do, "no wonder Hawaiians lost everything." You are one lolo Hawaiian.

Or maybe you're a Japanee-Wannabee?

You local boy you.

[Keanu]

This is message board BS.

You telling me you are a Hawaiian who knows only 2 Hawaiians that left Hawaii do to economics (job loss or no job, whatevah).

Actually only one left due to ecomomics and that is only because he got a great offer to work in Vegas (Construction industry). The other person I referred to left to explore Alaska. They both came back btw...because they missed home. The many Hawaiians I know, including family and friends, would never consider moving away from HOME because of economics.


You telling me you have no idea what the term Plantation Asian State Government refers to?

I have never heard this term used, not by anyone in the State or City government that I conversed with over the years.


Are you blind? My eyesight isn't 20/20 but no, I'm not blind so that old wives tale isn't true, LOL :p


If you really are a Hawaiian, then I say as I sometimes do, "no wonder Hawaiians lost everything." You are one lolo Hawaiian.

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


Or maybe you're a Japanee-Wannabee?


If liking Japanese Samurai shows apply, then yeah, I'm guilty as charged.

Seems to me that you've spent too much time in haoleville...brah, we don't live in a world where everything and everyone is equal. I'm happy for these workers, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

[kamuelakea]

You are not Hawaiian. I can smell it from your posts.

You are a Plantation Asian trying 4 ack.

End of thread for me.

As we say in Hawaiian, Sayunara Samurai.

Aloha Shoyu

Hawaiian Teriyaki

Bye Bye

[Lei K]

I don't have much to add to this thread other than my personal observation of Hawaiians leaving for the conus in my family.

We are the ONLY people in my immediate family who live on the conus (on both sides). But since we are talking Hawaiians, my kanaka side all still live back home. There have only been a handful who actually left to try to make a better life on the conus, but most came right on back (homesick). The majority of my kanaka family only leave to do church work/visit people in Utah and occasionally they go to that other Hawaiian island in Nevada.

Maybe it's where I live in So Cal (desert/valley, blah, no one really wants to live here area) that screws up my Polynesian connection. I know plenty Samoan people in my area but everytime I meet someone who claims to be Hawaiian or part-Hawaiian I find out they are Haole/Asian mixed (no kanaka koko) or they are 100% Asian.

I know the crazy statistics of Hawaiians who had to leave da `aina are true though, even if they aren't in my family. :(

I do wonder sometimes how many fill in that Hawaiian bubble on a form when they don't get any kanaka koko. :eek:

[GeckoGeek]

More regulation is needed, not less and from what I know, government agrees.

Oh, GREAT!!! NOW what are they going to screw up?!?!

And yea, "government agrees" - "government" never met a regulation it didn't like.

[beaker]

I have never heard this term used, not by anyone in the State or City government that I conversed with over the years.

It's just his way of using a divisive ethic slur while pretending it isn't a nasty ethnic slur. :rolleyes:

[kamuelakea]

It's just his way of using a divisive ethic slur while pretending it isn't a nasty ethnic slur. :rolleyes:

You are hilarious beaker.

Hawaii's Statehood Election was passed by mostly Plantation Asians.
Most of Hawaii's State Government since statehood has been made up of Asians.
Most of those Asians were decendants of those brought to Hawaii to temporarily work on the Plantations.
Since Statehood, most state jobs including elected, appointed or applied for have gone to Asians of Plantation decent. (check HGEA, HSTA, the legislature etc)

They are Plantation Asians. What else should we call them? Oh, I know,... "Localz", right?

What this all gets back to is the attempt by Asians in Hawaii to steal from Hawaiians the last thing they actually own, .... their identity.

There is nothing nasty about the term "One Real Kanaka" or "Missionary Haole" and there is nothing nasty about the term "Plantation Asian". Perfectly accurate descriptions.

You don't like the Plantation Asian term because it reminds you that you are an Asian (NOT Hawaiian) and you are an immigrant (NOT a faux-neo-Hawaiian-Lite). I will never figure out why Asians in Hawaii are so afraid of being Asian and an immigrant. If I was an Asian immigrant, I would try my best to be happy at being an Asian immigrant. It can't be fun going through life spending so much energy denying your true past and pretending to be something else.

[Leo Lakio]

It can't be fun going through life spending so much energy denying your true past and pretending to be something else.Yes - it's much more fun to spew ignorance while pretending that it's harmless. So, what happened to your earlier promise?End of thread for me.
As we say in Hawaiian, Sayunara Samurai.
Aloha Shoyu
Hawaiian Teriyaki
Bye Bye

[Pua'i Mana'o]

such a pilau thread.
:mad:

what was the point? Arguing the merits of government bailing out a specific industry? 'Corporate welfare', if you will? But what with the Plantasian huikau?

Jeezluiz Kamuela, you would think that the Kepani were single-handedly responsible for the overthrow, by reading your posts.

[beaker]

They are Plantation Asians. What else should we call them? Oh, I know,... "Localz", right?

Neighbors? Fellow citizens?


What this all gets back to is the attempt by Asians in Hawaii to steal from Hawaiians the last thing they actually own, .... their identity.


Victimhood mentality is a prison of one's own construction.


You don't like the Plantation Asian term because it reminds you that you are an Asian (NOT Hawaiian) and you are an immigrant (NOT a faux-neo-Hawaiian-Lite). I will never figure out why Asians in Hawaii are so afraid of being Asian and an immigrant. If I was an Asian immigrant, I would try my best to be happy at being an Asian immigrant. It can't be fun going through life spending so much energy denying your true past and pretending to be something else.

I'm "Asian"? Hahahaa. Who are you to say what some other person can feel their "identity" is? That's quite arrogant and disrespectful.

[kamuelakea]

such a pilau thread.
:mad:

what was the point? Arguing the merits of government bailing out a specific industry? 'Corporate welfare', if you will? But what with the Plantasian huikau?

Jeezluiz Kamuela, you would think that the Kepani were single-handedly responsible for the overthrow, by reading your posts.


They are responsible for the 2nd overthrow.

Funny thing is most people, including most Hawaiians, don't even see it.

Every Hawaiian can bitch and moan about the Missionary Haole's overthrowing the Queen. Fine. That's reasonable to complain about.

But nobody sees that Hawaiians have been displaced and replaced by the second overthrow committed by Plantation Asians. It has been a passive aggressive technique, unlike the Haole's who ruled by brut force and intimidation. But the results are similar. The Plantation Asians have used their sheer numerical advantage, their solidarity in democratic voting and their behind scenes (silent, secret) deal making to take total control. I'm not so concerned about political and economic control. To the winner goes the gold. But the truly offensive aspect is the way the Asian majority acts like they have some right to be in Hawaii or that they represent Hawaii any more than any other immigrant. That's what is Pilau.

Hawaiians don't even know whose Hawaiian anymore.

No different than Fiji and the immigant Indians (red dot kine). Only thing is that the Fijians recognize it and are fighting back today. Good for them.

Hawaiians like Pua'i Mana'o are defending the invaders and replacers. But if that's fine with enough Hawaiians, good, just shut up about sovereignty and get on with diluting and assimilating into the Asian "Locals" majority.

Nothing Pilau about truth and knowledge. But I know it hurts some to hear it.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

oh Kamuela, haven't we been doooowwwwn this road before? You start to confuse issues and get aggressive and accusatory, starting with an actual sober thought, but then bag off of it for a shit fire, and then I get disgusted at it and accuse your 'ike papa'u ass of sitting in traffic for the last 40 years, judging on how little you know about Hawaiian issues™ and what us kanakz are doing about it. Folks then leave us alone to take this thread into the ground at mach speed and ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana I am going to aloha you again.

So, instead of biting the bait, I am going to say two things:

1)corporate welfare is a worthy topic for discussion
2)the charge of the Second Overthrow is also a worthy topic for discussion

can we talk about it without getting stoopid? If I believe that its corporate welfare, I'd like to say so without being accused of being a haole-lover. On the other hand, if I believe that the industry deserves it because those immigrants were brought here and deserve help getting sent home, I'd like to say so without being accused of a being a Plantasian-lover.

I'd like to stick to the issues--which get plenty--and not let it dwindle into the unnecessary and yes, pilau. Let's not get in the way of the points that we are trying to make.

Can we, Kamuela? Can can? No can no can? What?

[Jonah K]

But nobody sees that Hawaiians have been displaced and replaced by the second overthrow committed by Plantation Asians. It has been a passive aggressive technique, unlike the Haole's who ruled by brut force and intimidation. But the results are similar. The Plantation Asians have used their sheer numerical advantage, their solidarity in democratic voting and their behind scenes (silent, secret) deal making to take total control. I'm not so concerned about political and economic control. To the winner goes the gold. But the truly offensive aspect is the way the Asian majority acts like they have some right to be in Hawaii or that they represent Hawaii any more than any other immigrant. That's what is Pilau.
Hmm, that description's a little simplistic and fails to take into account the "politics of marriage." No one held Lydia Kamaka'eha Paki at gunpoint when she married John Owen Dominis in 1862. Similarly, few Hawaiians were forced to marry "plantation Asians" or their descendants. However, many have done so in the past and will probably continue to do so in the future. :cool:


Hawaiians don't even know whose Hawaiian anymore.
Sometimes, this is the end result of the "politics of marriage."


No different than Fiji and the immigant Indians (red dot kine). Only thing is that the Fijians recognize it and are fighting back today. Good for them.
Fijians (and other Melanesians) had a different strategy for dealing with outsiders, compared to Tahitians, Maori, and Hawaiians. ;)


Hawaiians like Pua'i Mana'o are defending the invaders and replacers. But if that's fine with enough Hawaiians, good, just shut up about sovereignty and get on with diluting and assimilating into the Asian "Locals" majority.
I'm not going to say anything about Hawaiian sovereignty activists with surnames like Trask, Dorton, Burgess, Hee, Blaisdell, MacGregor, etc. and their failure to work together effectively; however, the battle for Hawaiian sovereignty was probably lost before it began.

Now getting back to the original topic. A mere $1.2 million to help over 500 displaced workers is less than $2,400 per person. For those that chose to remain in Hawai'i, $2,400 is probably enough to buy a couple of decent tents, a few blue tarps, a cooler, and some food. For Duke Aiona, that $1.2 million for the displaced workers is a way to start shoring up his support among the unions and the Pilipino community for a gubernatorial run. ;)

[kamuelakea]

No one held Lydia Kamaka'eha Paki at gunpoint when she married John Owen Dominis in 1862. Similarly, few Hawaiians were forced to marry "plantation Asians" or their descendants. However, many have done so in the past and will probably continue to do so in the future. :cool: however, the battle for Hawaiian sovereignty was probably lost before it began.Jonah, you actually beat me to some of the points you make. I think you are right. Hawaiians are one of the few cultures that freely abandoned their land, their culture, their religion, their identity.

Don't forget Pauahi married a haole. Kamehameha loved John Young and his Haole ways. Don't forget Liholiho abandoned the Kapu system. Kamehameha III created the Great Mehele with Haole support and guidance so that foreigners (HAOLES) could now purchase huge tracks of land. They dressed up in English clothes, wore European Crowns and costumes, spoke English eloquently, travelled to the United States and Europe, obviously facinated by European Royalty and American Wealth.

So Hawaiians have been the leaders at destroying and submitting their own culture to outsiders.

You may be absolutely right. Too late for Hawaiians. To this day they continue to fight to dilute and destroy what is left of real Hawaiian people and culture.

If that is the case, just don't try to convince me that any combination of immigrant blood in Hawaii is now a neo-Hawaiian. Don't tell me that "Localism" is any license to become a pseudo-Hawaiian.

BTW, the admin is threatening to ban me based upon this thread.

Nothing I said is racist.

Controversial? yes. Politically incorrect in Hawaii? Yes.

But racist? No way.

But I tole um, if you can't handle it, BAN ME.

Aloha

[timkona]

So let's see if I got this straight.

It's okay to defend the importance of being a Hawaiian, and of things Hawaiian, even when you are not really Hawaiian.

It's not okay to attack some of the institutions and behaviors that define being Hawaiian, or to cast a disparaging light upon poor decision making that might exist in Hawaiian History.

I better take some notes. Is there gonna be a test?

Here's the straight balls truth. Your pedigree don't matter. Too bad. So Sad. Your ma and pa screwed your mind good when you were young by teaching you that some races are more special than others.

One Planet. All Humans. Get over it.

[PoiBoy]

Jonah, you actually beat me to some of the points you make. I think you are right. Hawaiians are one of the few cultures that freely abandoned their land, their culture, their religion, their identity.

Don't forget Pauahi married a haole. Kamehameha loved John Young and his Haole ways. Don't forget Liholiho abandoned the Kapu system. Kamehameha III created the Great Mehele with Haole support and guidance so that foreigners (HAOLES) could now purchase huge tracks of land. They dressed up in English clothes, wore European Crowns and costumes, spoke English eloquently, travelled to the United States and Europe, obviously facinated by European Royalty and American Wealth.

So Hawaiians have been the leaders at destroying and submitting their own culture to outsiders.

You may be absolutely right. Too late for Hawaiians. To this day they continue to fight to dilute and destroy what is left of real Hawaiian people and culture.

If that is the case, just don't try to convince me that any combination of immigrant blood in Hawaii is now a neo-Hawaiian. Don't tell me that "Localism" is any license to become a pseudo-Hawaiian.

ahh brutha, I see you are frustrated. In talking to the cousins in Hawai'i, I can tell you that you're not alone. All you can do try to teach the little ones the ways of your ancestors and through them there is hope for the future.

[admin]

But I tole um, if you can't handle it, BAN ME.You were warned for personally attacking other users. And you weren't the only one to be warned. If you want to be banned, that can be accommodated. Otherwise, cool it, and we're cool.