Are you ready for the next shipping strike?

[Miulang]

According to the parties involved in the negotiations, only a "few" things are left to settle in the negotiations with the shipping clerks (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jul/18/br/br9631205874.html)in California: "minor" things like wages and benefits.:mad: The shipping clerks could have gone on strike as of this past Monday, but they are still at the negotiating table.

If they do walk, the longshoremen say they will honor the shipping clerks' picket line, which means that nothing will get shipped out of CA (40% of all goods get shipped into and out of LA and Long Beach ports) for the duration of a strike.

Better make that Costco run for rice, toilet paper, SPAM and sardines before everyone else does---just in case!

Miulang

[Karen]

Whew....at least the strike is on the other end and not here on our island docks. How much of our stuff comes through there, and not SF? Perhaps this is still a big worry because most of our stuff comes through the one place that could strike? Need input.....

[anapuni808]

Shipping strikes usually don't affect the military commisaries. It's only the ones of us who depend on civilian stores that get bothered. and as Miulang stated, approx. 40% of our supplies come out of LA/Long Beach so if they strike, there will be shortages. I don't know if that % is accurate but suffice to say that it is a LOT! and shipping strikes DO affect the docks here: no ships unloading means no work for our local longshoremen. That means a hit to the local economy also. Shipping strikes are not good for the islands at all.

[tikiyaki]

WHAT ? I just put a pallet full of furniture and household items on a boat yesterday to Hilo (sails today). This is a private company tho (DHX)

They didnt say anything to me so, hopefully I will be ok

[Miulang]

WHAT ? I just put a pallet full of furniture and household items on a boat yesterday to Hilo (sails today). This is a private company tho (DHX)

They didnt say anything to me so, hopefully I will be ok
Depends if the strike happens and if the longshoremen in Hawai'i honor the picket lines in CA. In that case, your stuff might get stuck on a boat somewhere until the strike is over.

Miulang

[Star of Gladness]

The last strike was not pretty

[helen]

It wouldn't. First of all no one has actually gone on strike. Secondly if they did go on strike it would affect the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach.

[Palolo Joe]

If they do walk, the longshoremen say they will honor the shipping clerks' picket line, which means that nothing will get shipped out of CA (40% of all goods get shipped into and out of LA and Long Beach ports) for the duration of a strike.

Better make that Costco run for rice, toilet paper, SPAM and sardines before everyone else does---just in case!


Umm... bull.

"Nothing will get shipped out of CA," you say? You're starting to sound like Chicken Little again.

http://starbulletin.com/2007/07/18/business/story01.html

This time, any potential shutdown doesn't figure to have as much impact in Hawaii as it did in 2002, because other ports in Oakland, Calif., and Tacoma, Wash., would continue operating.

Stop trying to whip people into a frenzy.

[Miulang]

It wouldn't. First of all no one has actually gone on strike. Secondly if they did go on strike it would affect the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach.

Not necessarily, according to this story in today's Pacific Business News (http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2007/07/16/daily27.html?f=et71&ana=e_du). The Hawai'i longshoremen working under the ILWU would honor the strike in California.

Miulang

[Karen]

I shop military commissaries once a week, and have here for 13 +yrs. When the strike at our docks happened a few years ago, dang, what year was that? we eventually were told we could only buy two packs of toilet paper at a time, so the strike can and did affect our commissaries that much. I can't know how a longer strike would affect us.

Did the workers in Southern CA. honor our last strike from here? Seems we were not given any indication they did.

I'm not worried about this current one. I don't see it strongly affecting us here.

[helen]

Not necessarily, according to this story in today's Pacific Business News (http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2007/07/16/daily27.html?f=et71&ana=e_du). The Hawai'i longshoremen working under the ILWU would honor the strike in California.

I can understand our local longshoremen not loading ships bound for Los Angeles or Long Beach where the strike takes place but what sort of logic falls into place where they refuse to work on loading (or off-loading) ships bound for places other than Los Angeles or Long Beach?

[LikaNui]

Not necessarily, according to this story in today's Pacific Business News (http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2007/07/16/daily27.html?f=et71&ana=e_du). That story seems very positive that a strike won't happen:

"Craig Merrilees, communications director with the 15,000-member International Longshore and Warehouse Union, said the 930 members of Local 63 OCU, or office clerical workers, made "good progress" before breaking off talks late Monday evening.
"Everybody's trying to reach a settlement," Merrilees said."

That's the UNION guys talking.

The Hawai'i longshoremen working under the ILWU would honor the strike in California. And Governor Lingle can use emergency powers in an Executive Order to order them back to work. Immediately.
It's been done in the past, here and all over the country.
There will, quite simply, be no shortage.
Why anyone would post something to inspire a panic escapes me.
:rolleyes:

[anapuni808]

Back in 2002, we didn't notice any shortages because it was a short strike. However, the strike back in the early 70's went on for 3 months and was not fun, and we had many shortages. and PJ is right - there are other ports for shipping. Plus, many merchants will bring things in by air now.

Karen - the strike you're talking about was on the docks of LA/Long Beach, not here. But, longshoremen will honor their union brothers. So what happens there does affect us here - if no ships are getting loaded, there is nothing to unload here.

As for myself, I'm not going to panic because I have 48 rolls of TP stashed away in my closet :D

[Karen]

Anapuni.....help me here. I remember a strike that was our own dockworkers, yes? no? Wow.....it was then said to be the first strike here in decades of time. Hmm.....well, onward thru the fog.

[GeckoGeek]

This time, any potential shutdown doesn't figure to have as much impact in Hawaii as it did in 2002, because other ports in Oakland, Calif., and Tacoma, Wash., would continue operating.

There was a strike in 2002? Man, I must be really suffering from CRS....

The one I (kinda) remember was late 60s/early 70s. Nasty. That's the one that causes everyone to quickly grab toilet paper and rice when supplies are threatened.

[helen]

Here is an entry from HawaiiStories about the walkout (http://www.hawaiistories.com/archives/004782.shtml) in 2002. It didn't last that long and even back then the walkout was on the mainland side where as the one in the 1970's it was workers on the Hawaii side that strike (it could have been the mainland side as well).

[mel]

I caught an article (http://starbulletin.com/2007/07/18/business/story01.html) about this possibility in yesterday's StarBulletin. In the afternoon I went to WalMart and bought 48 rolls of toilet paper. This adds to the 24 unopened rolls I already have that I bought about 2 years ago. Can never be unprepared for this kind of thing.

Plus with hurricane season still around, it is a good idea to stock up on staples and emergency supplies. Like the other day I just bought a new radio that has a weather band frequency since my other broke last year after the earthquake.

[craigwatanabe]

There was an old local comic strip called "Aloha Eden" where one guy tells the other that his basement was flooding. He runs off because he had his stash of toilet paper down there from the strike.

I remember that strike. No toilet paper and no rice. Lots of us ended up using paper towels and other means of cleaning up, so when the phrase "Dock Strike" hits the headlines, older folks instinctively go out and hoard the essentials.

Thank God for the Super Ferry. The potential strike couldn't come at a better time for the SF.

[mel]

No toilet paper and no rice. Lots of us ended up using paper towels and other means of cleaning up, so when the phrase "Dock Strike" hits the headlines, older folks instinctively go out and hoard the essentials.

Paper towels are quite thick and can clog the plumbing.

But yes, older folks do stock up. When I was living on the Big Island one of our neighbors had a whole room filled with toilet paper and rice just because there was an article or something that said "dock strike."

Now I don't know how the SuperFerry can save the day since most of our goods come on container ships from the mainland. I guess people on Kauai and Maui will be able to bring their vehicles to Honolulu and stock up here to take stuff back home. In that regard it is a good idea to stock up now before the neighbor islanders come here and compete for our supplies. :eek:

[joshuatree]

I understand stocking up on food in case of a possible strike but why is there always a mad dash for toilet paper? I mean, how bad is it when you run out of toilet paper? Just walk over to the bath tub and wash your behind. ;)

[SusieMisajon]

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=8798&highlight=pandemic

So, preps are not simply for the paranoid....when they've got you by the short and curlies.

[1stwahine]

I understand stocking up on food in case of a possible strike but why is there always a mad dash for toilet paper? I mean, how bad is it when you run out of toilet paper? Just walk over to the bath tub and wash your behind. ;)

The trick is to use crumpled up "pieces" of newspapers or magazines and den wash your behinds.;)

In dee old days ~ dey used large leaves.:)

I no kid you.

Auntie Lynn

[GeckoGeek]

In dee old days ~ dey used large leaves.:)

Toilet paper was invented because of indoor plumbing. Before that, no body would buy something just the throw it down the hole.

[GeckoGeek]

There was an old local comic strip called "Aloha Eden" where one guy tells the other that his basement was flooding. He runs off because he had his stash of toilet paper down there from the strike.

Corky Trinidad's old strip (he's currently the SB's editorial cartoonist.) In fact, I think I have that exact strip somewhere.

[timkona]

When I ran for Council, I gave a speech in front of the Longshoremans Union - ILWU.

The first thing I said to a room full of big guys was "When I run out of rice and TP, can I come to your house to get some?"

Needless to say, the stink-eye was everywhere. Right after that I said, "There is no problem with out school system. If your brat would shut the hell up, my daughter would be able to get an education."

Folks never elect the person who is telling the balls-to-the-wall TRUTH.

[1stwahine]

When I ran for Council, I gave a speech in front of the Longshoremans Union - ILWU.

The first thing I said to a room full of big guys was "When I run out of rice and TP, can I come to your house to get some?"

Folks never elect the person who is telling the balls-to-the-wall TRUTH.

Tim, I wish I was there. I would have given you a standing ovation!

Bravo!

Auntie Lynn

[tutusue]

[...]I mean, how bad is it when you run out of toilet paper? Just walk over to the bath tub and wash your behind. ;)
The trick is to use crumpled up "pieces" of newspapers or magazines and den wash your behinds.;)

In dee old days ~ dey used large leaves.:)[...]
Toilet paper was invented because of indoor plumbing. Before that, no body would buy something just the throw it down the hole.
Not to mention...corn cobs. Just google "corn cob"+toilet! <ggg>

[SusieMisajon]

Newspaper, leaves, corncobs, water, babywipes, toiletpaper, grass, sand, Sears catalogues, washcloths, washable flannel, fabric scraps, your left hand, the dogs tongue, a sponge, paper towels....

[helen]

How's about bulk ordering toliet paper from a web site and having it air shipped to Hawaii?

Sure it might be more expensive but then again toliet paper don't weigh that much.

[Miulang]

Besides wages, benefits and pensions, here are some of the other things (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ports17jul17,1,252909.story?ctrack=4&cset=true)on the table for the shipping clerks:

The union wants access to company computers to make sure their work has not been outsourced to nonunion employees. The companies want to leave vacant the jobs of departing temporary workers and those who quit or retire unless there is a true business need to replace them.


Miulang

[GypsyLika]

My ohana & friends always send me muchies & grindz from da islands and I've always told dem, hey you guys need toilet paper or something Hawaii no moe, I'll snail mail'um to you. :)

[Frankie's Market]

But yes, older folks do stock up. When I was living on the Big Island one of our neighbors had a whole room filled with toilet paper and rice just because there was an article or something that said "dock strike."

Yes, so very true. Happens every time the word "strike" is mentioned in the papers or on the TV news. The oldtimers instinctively head to Long's and proceed to buy out the store's entire stock of toilet paper, no matter if they already have enough for themselves for the next 6 months. Over the last 20 years, it's thoughtless people like them (not the ILWU) that have created shortages and inconvienienced everyone else through their panic-buying. :mad:

[anapuni808]

Frankie, if it wouldn't be too much trouble - can you give us all some actual examples of this "panic buying" you are talking about? I'm sure we "old timers" on here would like to know exactly when we have caused shortages that affected you. It's funny you say that because in an actual strike, there are limits to how much rice, TP and other paper products one can purchase. and of course, after a couple of months (such as in the early 70's), there is nothing to buy anyway. :(

and as someone mentioned yesterday - all this talk of panic buying is rather silly right now since there is no strike and nothing to induce panic buying is happening.

[Frankie's Market]

Frankie, if it wouldn't be too much trouble - can you give us all some actual examples of this "panic buying" you are talking about? I'm sure we "old timers" on here would like to know exactly when we have caused shortages that affected you. It's funny you say that because in an actual strike, there are limits to how much rice, TP and other paper products one can purchase. and of course, after a couple of months (such as in the early 70's), there is nothing to buy anyway. :(

and as someone mentioned yesterday - all this talk of panic buying is rather silly right now since there is no strike and nothing to induce panic buying is happening.

If you haven't personally been doing it, then I certainly wasn't talking about you, aikane. :)

But at the same time, there are folks who instinctively over-react to news about a "possible" work stoppage and go overboard on things like toilet paper. It happened when news of the ILWU's contract with the PMA expired in 2002 and the next day when I went to the Longs store in Kamehameha Shopping Center, their toilet paper shelves were totally bare. I asked what happened and the clerk told me there were shoppers that very morning who each bought as many toilet paper packs as they could cart out of the store. Some people only bought toilet paper, as a direct response to that news. In this way, their fear of a shortage was like a self-fulfilling prophecy, created by their actions.

We all know how that particular labor strife turned out. But nonetheless, it created an inconvienience for everyone else, who had to shop elsewhere just to buy a few rolls. But as far as whether panic-buying actually happens creating needless shortages at certain stores, it most certainly DOES HAPPEN. If you haven't personally experienced it at the stores that you happen to shop at, count yourself among the fortunate.

The only positive thing I can say about the wave of panic-buying the last time around was, at least there wasn't a shortage of spam, like at other times. Hmmm, maybe this is a sign that people in Hawaii are trying to live healthier? :D

[SusieMisajon]

Dock strike in late sixties...I remember no sugar, coffee, toilet paper, or spam.

[GeckoGeek]

Folks never elect the person who is telling the balls-to-the-wall TRUTH.

There's truth and then there's tact. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[1stwahine]

There's truth and then there's tact. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Is there a School to learn Tact? Cause I got Ballz to tell dee TRUTH but I don't have TACT!:(

But I'm willing to LEARN.;)

Auntie Lynn

[Leo Lakio]

Is there a School to learn Tact?Yes, but only its graduates know where it is --- and they are too tactful to tell you. And that's the truth. :p

[1stwahine]

Yes, but only its graduates know where it is --- and they are too tactful to tell you. And that's the truth. :p

heheheh...

Hey! Your wanted on A.P.'s Hale!! Pronto

Slurp Slurp!!

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Tact? I wen learn.:p

Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

The latest news (http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/articles/8630757.html)on negotiations: it's now up to the companies; the union submitted its "last, best and final" offer yesterday. Now everybody's waiting to see what the companies come back with as a counter proposal.

For what the clerks are asking, I might consider moving down to San Pedro and becoming a shipping clerk($53.00/hour + health insurance + 20 days of paid vacation to push paper around?)!:eek: Even the companies' last counter proposal on wages of $39.50/hour (up from the current $37/hour) looks pretty sweet to me.

Miulang

[tutusue]

[...]For what the clerks are asking, I might consider moving down to San Pedro and becoming a shipping clerk($53.00/hour + health insurance + 20 days of paid vacation to push paper around?)!:eek: Even the companies' last counter proposal on wages of $39.50/hour (up from the current $37/hour) looks pretty sweet to me.[...]
:eek: Egads...I'm in the wrong business. Where do I sign up?!

[joshuatree]

This is why unions will be the death of American jobs, not the outsourcers in other countries. $53/hr is their best offer? Heck I be looking into outsourcing the paperwork. This is simply the tail wagging the dog. And people wonder why companies become uncompetitive and fold.

[LikaNui]

$53/hr is their best offer? Remember the longshoremen's negotiations a few years back, where one newspaper article said that clerks in the longshoremen offices were making over $120,000 a year?!?!!!
:eek:

[Karen]

Aren't unions the main reason living here is so expensive? Not necessarily just cuz it's and islands and most things are shipped here, but the unions behind this, too?

PS....shipping clerks making more than our county prosecutor?? Either they are cheating us all, or he's sure getting ripped off.

[joshuatree]

Yes, unions are the main cause, if not a close second, as to why cost of living in Hawaii is so high. Imagine if there was no Jones Act, the cost of shipping would go down. Imagine if the debate of building rail did not involve union labor, I bet it would no where be the billions they are quoting. Yeah, I know, we can't undercut everything to a point where our standard of living degrades but $53/hr.....that's more like a king's standard of living.

[1stwahine]

Yes, unions are the main cause, if not a close second, as to why cost of living in Hawaii is so high. Imagine if there was no Jones Act, the cost of shipping would go down. Imagine if the debate of building rail did not involve union labor, I bet it would no where be the billions they are quoting. Yeah, I know, we can't undercut everything to a point where our standard of living degrades but $53/hr.....that's more like a king's standard of living.

Just to jogged your memories a bit on the different views regarding the Jones Act when Case and Akaka ran against each other. Akaka won.
Taken from our Sister Site at HawaiiNews.com
http://www.hawaiinews.com/archives/politics/000414.shtml

MODERATOR: Congressman Case, you and your opponent differ on the Jones Act, which requires that cargo ships between U.S. ports can only travel in ships built, owned, and crewed by Americans. Should Hawaii be exempt from the Jones Act?

CASE: Is it fair that our federal government creates a monopoly over any key aspect of life in Hawaii? Is it fair that our federal government provides one company, effectively, with the ability to control, to dominate, the lifeline that we have between here and the Mainland for all of our goods? Because that's exactly what the Jones Act does. Yes there's another company, but between them they're a duopoly and frankly Matson dominates that other company, they cross-ship cargo, as an example. 97, 98 percent of our goods come down here from the Mainland. They all come by shipping. We don't have the ability to go to rail, to buses, to trucks, even to air cargo -- that doesn't work, it's too expensive. So when somebody gets a hold of our lifeline, that's a dangerous sign for us. And we're paying for it in spades, thousands of dollars for each and every citizen of this country and this state, far more money for businesses that employ people and have to deal with those goods and services. That's not fair, and that's not the way it should be. We have laws in this country against the creation of monopolies, we believe monopolies are bad. Yet in this case, a federal law creates a monopoly. By the way, it's not just goods and services coming down from the mainland, it's also getting our products to the markets on the mainland. Let's take the cattle industry on the Big Island, or any of the other neighbor islands that I represent. That cattle industry wants to get its products to market as fast as possible. To ship from Kawaihae, in the case of the Big Island, to Stockton, California. They can't do that. Why? Because there's no shipping that can come in because Matson won't do it. Instead, they have to ship it to Honolulu, sit around Honolulu Harbor for a while, waiting for a ship. Consequence? Time is money. That's not the right thing, that's not the right business for our federal government to be in. I do believe in the repeal of the Jones Act, at least with respect to insular parts of our country like Hawaii.

MODERATOR: Senator Akaka, your response?

AKAKA: Yes. The Jones Act is a critical component to protecting local jobs and national security. There has been bipartisan support of that bill by all of the presidents. These leaders recognize as I do, the strategic importance of our ports and our high quality labor force working in the maritime industry. And the Jones Act protects all of these. The Navy League of the U.S. says that the Jones Act is critical to U.S. national security, and it also helps our economy. The domestic shippers and ship builders that come under the Jones Act do contribute in terms of federal taxes. Hawaii receives $232 million in taxes every year on this.

Auntie Lynn

[GeckoGeek]

Is there a School to learn Tact? Cause I got Ballz to tell dee TRUTH but I don't have TACT!:(

I wish. I could use some schooling myself. The only one I know of is the School of Hard Knocks - no tact and get one knock upside the head. ;)

[1stwahine]

I wish. I could use some schooling myself. The only one I know of is the School of Hard Knocks - no tact and get one knock upside the head. ;)

heheheh...

Das da one I wen GRADUATE from with Honors!

I wen learn how to give plenny Whack Whacks!:p

Ahhhh...to keep OT ~ I juss bought Toilet Paper and Rice. hahahaha
Wat? I'm an old fut!:o I scared. NOT!!!

Auntie Lynn

[GeckoGeek]

I wen learn how to give plenny Whack Whacks!:p

No, no, no .... you learn by GETTING wacks! :p

[1stwahine]

No, no, no .... you learn by GETTING wacks! :p

Eh!! Who you been talking to?:o

HAHAHAHAHAH

Wait till I see you at this year's Xmas Party!:D

Auntie Lynn

[craigwatanabe]

Yes, so very true. Happens every time the word "strike" is mentioned in the papers or on the TV news. The oldtimers instinctively head to Long's and proceed to buy out the store's entire stock of toilet paper, no matter if they already have enough for themselves for the next 6 months. Over the last 20 years, it's thoughtless people like them (not the ILWU) that have created shortages and inconvienienced everyone else through their panic-buying. :mad:

Lately it's not only the old timers. At Home Depot when the word goes out about a Hurricane bearing down on Hawaii, we run out of generators, batteries, flashlights and tarps. Who's buying them? Mostly local folks of all ages and ethnicities.

[SusieMisajon]

Just you wait til the word 'pandemic' comes by.

[joshuatree]

Lately it's not only the old timers. At Home Depot when the word goes out about a Hurricane bearing down on Hawaii, we run out of generators, batteries, flashlights and tarps. Who's buying them? Mostly local folks of all ages and ethnicities.


I see those items as being more important than toilet paper though. :D

As an isolated island chain, I wonder if our govt has the insight to stockpile anything?

[GeckoGeek]

At Home Depot when the word goes out about a Hurricane bearing down on Hawaii, we run out of generators, batteries, flashlights and tarps.

And a record number of returns when it fizzles out?

[Miulang]

Just you wait til the word 'pandemic' comes by.
Susie, I think the US is more prepared for a pandemic than we are for the "accidental" poisoning of the citizenry by tainted food (imported or grown domestically). At least the feds and the states have conferences and preparedness drills for such disasters every now and then. But they take a more laissez-faire approach to keeping the nation's food supplies safe. The state and federal governments are funding research and monitoring programs for bird flu and mad cow, but they're taking funding and facilities away from the FDA, which along with the Dept. of Agriculture, is supposed to be keeping our food supplies safe for consumption.

Miulang

[Frankie's Market]

Lately it's not only the old timers. At Home Depot when the word goes out about a Hurricane bearing down on Hawaii, we run out of generators, batteries, flashlights and tarps. Who's buying them? Mostly local folks of all ages and ethnicities.

Ah, but the threat of a shipping strike vs a hurricane's approach are two different animals and understandably need to be handled differently.

And while it is true that the threat of a hurricane might result in a "run" on certain items, the nature of the things we are talking about is different. Homeowners don't "stock up" on generators. They either have one that works or they don't. Similar with all the other Home Depot merchandise you mention. What I was talking about were folks who already had more than an ample supply of toilet paper (say 6 months worth) and they proceed to go out and attempt to buy 2 years worth in reaction to a news story about the "remote" possibility of a shipping strike. Toilet paper isn't suddenly going to "get old" like batteries in a year's time, right? This is what I meant by needless panic-buying.

But your point is taken, Craig. You do have a few "young 'uns" who are also guilty of needless panic-buying when it comes to the possibility of shipping disruption, which is what this thread was talking about. But hurricane/natural disaster preparedness is another matter.

[Miulang]

And while it is true that the threat of a hurricane might result in a "run" on certain items, the nature of the things we are talking about is different. Homeowners don't "stock up" on generators. They either have one that works or they don't. Similar with all the other Home Depot merchandise you mention. What I was talking about were folks who already had more than an ample supply of toilet paper (say 6 months worth) and they proceed to go out and attempt to buy 2 years worth in reaction to a news story about the "remote" possibility of a shipping strike. Toilet paper isn't suddenly going to "get old" like batteries in a year's time, right? This is what I meant by needless panic-buying.

But your point is taken, Craig. You do have a few "young 'uns" who are also guilty of needless panic-buying when it comes to the possibility of shipping disruption, which is what this thread was talking about. But hurricane/natural disaster preparedness is another matter.
For my parents' generation (the ones who were born or who were youngsters during the Depression or during WW2), they remember some of the shortages and rationing they endured back then, and sometimes I think they forget that in these times, having a 6 month supply of toilet paper is certainly more than enough to last through the longest shipping strike the government would allow before stepping in. Even without the threat of a shipping strike or other emergency, I remember my Mom stockpiling not only the TP and Spam and rice, but stuff like Crest toothpaste too!:eek:

Miulang

[Miulang]

<sigh> Contract talks between Local 63 (http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/articles/8712382.html)and the shippers is off again, and unless a major act of Divine Intervention occurs, it looks like the union folks will walk.:(

“Each side has moved as far as they feel they can go at this point and can’t go any further,” he said.

Earlier, John Fageaux Jr., president of the Local 63 Office Clerical Unit of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union, said workers were ready to strike.

“Talks are over. … We’ve gone as far as we could go and done everything we could do,” Fageaux said in comments to the radio station. “The next step is we’re going to get together with our group and determine when and where picket signs are going to go up.”



Miulang

[1stwahine]

<sigh> Contract talks between and the shippers is off again, and unless a major act of Divine Intervention occurs, it looks like the union folks will walk.Miulang

So wat? Do we go nuts and go to Longs NOW?:eek: :rolleyes:

Are we truly affected by this Strike?:confused:

Cause if not...stop making people SCARED!

Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

So wat? Do we go nuts and go to Longs NOW?:eek: :rolleyes:

Are we truly affected by this Strike?:confused:

Auntie Lynn
Depends on how long the walk out is for. If it goes on for too long, the feds could step in and invoke the Taft Hartley Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft-Hartley_Act), which would force the union back to the bargaining table with federal negotiators while they continue to work towards a settlement. Strikers would also have to go back to work during this period.

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Depends on how long the walk out is for. If it goes on for too long, the feds could step in and invoke the Taft Hartley Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft-Hartley_Act), which would force the union back to the bargaining table with federal negotiators while they continue to work towards a settlement. Strikers would also have to go back to work during this period.

Miulang

Ok Tita Miulang, You Book Smart.heheheh

I going buy TP, Spam and whateva's just to make shua. Den again, I no need cause I have my three kids who go Commissary!;)

Mahalo

Lynn

[Miulang]

Here's the interview on radio station KNX1070 (http://www.knx1070.com/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=890459) with a spokesman from Local 63 of the Marine Clerk's Union who talks about what happened earlier today and what is expected to happen now.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Depends on how long the walk out is for.

Depends = I DON'T KNOW

There are other ports that service the islands besides the one in Long Beach.

Chicken Little needs to Stop the Madness already.

[LikaNui]

Ok Tita Miulang, You Book Smart.heheheh
I going buy TP, Spam and whateva's just to make shua. Try wait, Aunty Lynn. There was not one single word about a possible strike affecting us here in today's newspapers or on any of the TV news programs tonight nor on the TV stations websites. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nothing.
Either someone is trying to scare you/us into panic buying, or else every single news outlet and journalist in the state of Hawai`i has somehow --incredibly! -- overlooked an extremely vital and critical story. Somehow I think it's the former, not the latter. :rolleyes:
A link was given here earlier to an interview on KNX radio... which is in Los Angeles. I saw no mention that Hawai`i was discussed in that interview, not even once. :rolleyes:
The sky is NOT falling.

[Miulang]

The only other major ports on the West Coast are in Oakland and Seattle/Tacoma.

According to this story (http://eastbay.bizjournals.com/eastbay/stories/2007/05/28/daily32.html), 80% of all the goods shipped to Hawai'i come through the California ports.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

According to this story (http://eastbay.bizjournals.com/eastbay/stories/2007/05/28/daily32.html), 80% of all the goods shipped to Hawai'i come through the California ports.

Once again... BULL.

Here's the original line from the story:

It is estimated that 80 percent of the goods consumed in Hawaii are shipped there by sea in containers that pass through California ports.

Key word that you so conveniently left out?

ESTIMATED.

It is estimated. That's a GUESS. Not a fact.

STOP PLAYING CHICKEN LITTLE ALREADY.

[helen]

The only other major ports on the West Coast are in Oakland and Seattle/Tacoma.

According to this story (http://eastbay.bizjournals.com/eastbay/stories/2007/05/28/daily32.html), 80% of all the goods shipped to Hawai'i come through the California ports.

a) This link has nothing to do with the current labor issue in Long Beach and Los Angeles.
b) So okay 80% of the stuff shipped to Hawaii comes from places like Long Beach, Los Angeles and Oakland but it does not say what percentage is from Long Beach and/or Los Angeles.
c) So far only one source has mentioned that the talks are stalled, a work stopage is threatened but so far no one has actually gone on strike.
d) There is still more than 20% of the stuff being shipped to Hawaii coming from places other than Los Angeles or Long Beach. Stuff is going to come here, we wouldn't be completely cut off from the world.

In fact stuff bound to Costco here should not be affected right? For instance the main headquarters for Costco is in Kirkland, Washington. Nearest port to them is Seattle which is not affected by this yet to come labor stopage.

[LikaNui]

And I have a different question about that same line, which said "It is estimated that 80 percent of the goods consumed in Hawaii are shipped there by sea in containers that pass through California ports."
What exactly does "pass through" entail? It doesn't say that 80% were loaded onto the ships in California. So how many of those containers were already on the ships when the ships made a stop in California before coming here? 79%, maybe?
The quoted sentence is vague and unresponsive.
Let's say that I drove my car from Kaneohe, stopped in Nu`uanu, and ended up in Honolulu. I "passed through" Nu`uanu, did I not? Even though that wasn't my starting point nor my ending point?
:rolleyes:

And I'm still waiting for an answer to my earlier post -- exactly why is it that NO media in Hawai`i have even mentioned a possible strike problem here? Could it be because... NOT A SINGLE EXPERT HERE PREDICTS ANY PROBLEM WHATSOEVER???
:rolleyes:

[Miulang]

a) This link has nothing to do with the current labor issue in Long Beach and Los Angeles.
b) So okay 80% of the stuff shipped to Hawaii comes from places like Long Beach, Los Angeles and Oakland but it does not say what percentage is from Long Beach and/or Los Angeles.
c) So far only one source has mentioned that the talks are stalled, a work stopage is threatened but so far no one has actually gone on strike.
d) There is still more than 20% of the stuff being shipped to Hawaii coming from places other than Los Angeles or Long Beach. Stuff is going to come here, we wouldn't be completely cut off from the world.

In fact stuff bound to Costco here should not be affected right? For instance the main headquarters for Costco is in Kirkland, Washington. Nearest port to them is Seattle which is not affected by this yet to come labor stopage.
LA/San Diego is the largest port on the West Coast. Oakland is next, then Seattle/Tacoma. LA/San Diego handles the majority of cargo going to Hawai'i. The work stoppage may only last for a few days, in which case, there wouldn't be a need to redirect cargo up to Oakland. If it had to be redirected to Seattle/Tacoma, it would delay shipments to you by days because everything would have to be trucked/railed up to Tacoma. The Tacoma facility is smaller than Oakland, which is smaller than LA/San Diego. The Seattle terminals are mostly used by cruise ships now. We do have Matson container ships leaving Seattle every week, but not many.

If the stoppage is more than a few weeks, the government will step in and invoke Taft Hartley because it would be way too disruptive for the entire nation's economy to let a strike go on for every long. The last really long strike Hawai'i suffered through was in 1971, and that one lasted a total of 134 days, including an 80-day cooling off period that was mandated by the federal government.

Given the fact that the US now imports more than it exports, I seriously doubt the government would let a strike ever go on that long again. But depending on how far apart the negotiations are right now (none of the negotiators is saying what the 2 sticking points are that led to the stalemate) any walkout could be days or weeks. Neither side would win in the case of a strike, and all consumers in the US would suffer (not just the consumers in Hawai'i).

Miulang

[Konaguy]

*yawn*, ummm can someone tell me what the problem is :p. They haven't gone out on strike yet. Even if they did go out on strike for a protracted period,
the president can force them back to work. So I'm not terribly worried about it.There is bigger issues that are out there than this.

[helen]

Assuming if a strike happens, delays in getting stuff shipped to Hawaii. As far as stuff being shipped from Hawaii to places like Seattle or Oakland no problem. As far as stuff from Hawaii to Los Angeles or Long Beach it's either going to wait here or get redirected to Seattle or Oakland depending on the situation.

[Miulang]

True. Here is a KNX1070 (http://www.knx1070.com/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=890457) interview with a spokesperson from the shipping companies about next steps. The union turned down a counter offer by the owners of a 14% increase in salaries and bennies over 2 years so that wages for everyone would be > $80,000. The salaries would go from $35 to $40 instead of the $53 the union wanted.

If the clerks go on strike, management will continue to try to do the work that the clerks do; if the ILWU Longshoremen decide to honor the picket line (as they have said they will do), then it would shut down both LA/San Diego.

Miulang

[Konaguy]

Assuming if a strike happens, delays in getting stuff shipped to Hawaii. As far as stuff being shipped from Hawaii to places like Seattle or Oakland no problem. As far as stuff from Hawaii to Los Angeles or Long Beach it's either going to wait here or get redirected to Seattle or Oakland depending on the situation.

Exactly my point. If all three ports (SEA, OAK, LAX) workers decided to strike I would be sweating bullets. But as it stands now, I don't see it severely affecting us. As freight will still move through SEA, and OAK.

This stoppage will affect the overall US economy more than Hawaii.

[LikaNui]

The work stoppage may only last for a few days (...)
If the stoppage is more than a few weeks, the government will step in and invoke Taft Hartley because it would be way too disruptive for the entire nation's economy to let a strike go on for every long. (...)
I seriously doubt the government would let a strike ever go on that long So now that you admnit there's nothing to worry about at all, I guess I'm missing why this whole thread started in the first place, and why some folks were falsely led to believe that panic buying was necessary.
:rolleyes:

[Karen]

Yes! :cool: If the darn thing was....about to start this week, I am ready. I don't think there's a close or cupboard that has much room to spare, course maybe we could use a bigger house.

[anapuni808]

We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for the Jones Act. Or if Hawaii were an independent nation again and not subject to US laws including the Jones Act. If there were shipping strikes on the west coast, we could receive goods direct from ships coming in from all over the Pacific. Instead those foreign ships take their goods to the west coast to be off loaded and re-loaded to an American flagged vessel to sail back here to the islands. all this requiring more shipping charges & delays in shipping.

did you know that in the days when sugar was produced & grown here - we payed more for C&H sugar than they did in California?

[helen]

Instead those foreign ships take their goods to the west coast to be off loaded and re-loaded to an American flagged vessel to sail back here to the islands.
Does that mean Spam and toilet paper come from Asia?

[anapuni808]

Does that mean Spam and toilet paper come from Asia?

Spam comes from Hormel, which is in Minnesota. but I would supsect that Hormel has other plants that make spam all over the world. But toilet paper could come from anywhere. So could our rice, coffee, tea, other paper products. What I'm trying to point out is that there ARE other places from which to obtain food and other goods like building supplies.

Even cars would cost less if those ships with, say, a KIA from So. Korea came directly here instead of west coast first.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this?

[helen]

You are right about the cars being shipped from South Korea or Japan. As far as toilet paper I might concede that the raw materials to make toilet paper might come from outside the USA but the finished product itself I think is done here in the US. However without a place in Hawaii to make toilet paper, it makes no sense to have the raw materials stop off here.

[Karen]

You mean my Toyota went from Japan to California, and then back here?

Seems to me that pineapples cost as much here as they did when I lived in California and that doesn't make sense to me.

[LikaNui]

I might concede that the raw materials to make toilet paper (...) Lord have mercy. Seeing the words "raw materials" and "toilet paper" in the same sentence? :o

:p

[SusieMisajon]

Whatchu guys arguing for? If you had already had preps in da house, there would be no need to go out 'panic buying', anyway. Just go over to Longs and stuff and watch the crazy show.

[GeckoGeek]

did you know that in the days when sugar was produced & grown here - we payed more for C&H sugar than they did in California?

Uhhhh, because it was grown here and only the first stage of processing was done here? It was sent to California (the "C" in C&H) for refining.

As for the whole thing about shipping going to the West Coast and then coming back, it might be a size of demand thing. Hawaii probably doesn't have enough demand to cause a big ship to stop here and drop off a few things. It's more efficient ($ wise) to go non-stop to the WC, break it up and repackage it with other stuff of a ship to here.

[anapuni808]

You are right about the cars being shipped from South Korea or Japan. As far as toilet paper I might concede that the raw materials to make toilet paper might come from outside the USA but the finished product itself I think is done here in the US. However without a place in Hawaii to make toilet paper, it makes no sense to have the raw materials stop off here.


Other countries in the world use toilet paper. Foodland occasionaly has a brand that comes from Canada. Americans aren't the only folks who wipe their okoles in the bathroom! :D

[LikaNui]

There was not one single word about a possible strike affecting us here in today's newspapers or on any of the TV news programs tonight nor on the TV stations websites. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nothing.
And still yet this morning... nothing.

[anapuni808]

Uhhhh, because it was grown here and only the first stage of processing was done here? It was sent to California (the "C" in C&H) for refining.

As for the whole thing about shipping going to the West Coast and then coming back, it might be a size of demand thing. Hawaii probably doesn't have enough demand to cause a big ship to stop here and drop off a few things. It's more efficient ($ wise) to go non-stop to the WC, break it up and repackage it with other stuff of a ship to here.

Yes, that was partly the reason for the sugar costing more here.

The problem with the ships is called the JONES ACT!!!! It has nothing to do with supply & demand.

[anapuni808]

You mean my Toyota went from Japan to California, and then back here?

Seems to me that pineapples cost as much here as they did when I lived in California and that doesn't make sense to me.

Yes Karen - the ship sails right past us, goes to Calif. Your car will get unloaded there, then loaded onto a Hawaii bound ship. It's called "transshipment" and it happens everyday.

NOW, maybe you might comprehend why a shipping strike in Calif. does affect the islands.

[GeckoGeek]

And still yet this morning... nothing.

The lack of coverage may be because it's simply not that serious yet. All the talk so far may just be posturing and not really considered serious by experienced labor negotiation observers. Isn't there a mandatory cooling off period, notice, strike vote, etc before it can happen?

[LikaNui]

The lack of coverage may be because it's simply not that serious yet. All the talk so far may just be posturing and not really considered serious by experienced labor negotiation observers. Yes, that was my whole point, as I imagine you and others had already realized.

[Miulang]

The threatened strike was settled (http://www.knx1070.com/pages/713916.php?contentType=4&contentId=716082)this morning. Now the union members just have to vote to ratify the deal.

Miulang

[1stwahine]

The threatened strike was settled (http://www.knx1070.com/pages/713916.php?contentType=4&contentId=716082)this morning. Now the union members just have to vote to ratify the deal.

Miulang

Great...lucky ting I neba but nuttin...except.heheheh

Auntie Lynn

[Leo Lakio]

Great...lucky ting I neba but nuttin.hehehehNow you can just wait until stores have sales on rice, t.p., and other not-so-perishables - then you can build yourself up a stash so that if a crisis DOES occur, you won't have to worry about huge runs or price gouging on those products. Isn't that similar to what Susie has been suggesting? Stock up when you don't have to, so that you won't have to when everybody else does.

[1stwahine]

I have a confession to make.

I went to Longs Drugs and bought my make-up, just in case.:p

Moa important than Toilet Paper and SPAM!:D

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Auntie Lynn

[LikaNui]

Here's the Breaking News item (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jul/26/br/br0149765823.html) from the Honolulu Advertiser:

L.A. port clerks, employers reach deal, avert strike

"Port clerks and their employers at the nation's largest port complex tentatively agreed on a new contract Thursday, preventing a strike that could have crippled shipping and cost billions of dollars, a negotiator said.
"The employers are pleased that the union recognized the substantial investment that (employers) have made and agreed to their last wage proposal," said Steve Berry, a negotiator for the shippers.
(...)
"A strike could have potentially disrupted the flow of goods to Hawai'i, which relies heavily on shipments from the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles. However, during past labor disruptions at the port complex, some Hawai'i-bound goods were rerouted through the port in Oakland."

The sky did not fall. No panic buying and stockpiling was necessary.
As predicted. :rolleyes:
We return you now to your regular programming.

:p

[Leo Lakio]

I have a confession to make.

I went to Longs Drugs and bought my make-up, just in case.:p

Moa important than Toilet Paper and SPAM!:D

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Auntie LynnYou got your priorities, at least.

[1stwahine]

You got your priorities, at least.

Yep!! I no like look like Sh*t!:p

HAHAHAHAHA

Auntie Lynn

[joshuatree]

You mean my Toyota went from Japan to California, and then back here?

Seems to me that pineapples cost as much here as they did when I lived in California and that doesn't make sense to me.

Depends on what kind of Toyota you have? Corolla, Matrix, Tacoma.....most likely from Fremont, CA. Camry? Probably Kentucky. Tundra? Texas.

[TuNnL]

I mean, how bad is it when you run out of toilet paper? Just walk over to the bath tub and wash your behind. ;)EEeeewww!!!! Let’s hope you don’t “leak” on the way there. :eek:

[TuNnL]

we can't undercut everything to a point where our standard of living degrades but $53/hr.....that's more like a king's standard of living.Hardly. An attorney working out of referrals from the Legal Aid Society’s “Affordable Lawyers” (here in Honolulu) makes almost double that. :eek:

[anapuni808]

Depends on what kind of Toyota you have? Corolla, Matrix, Tacoma.....most likely from Fremont, CA. Camry? Probably Kentucky. Tundra? Texas.

Thanks for adding this - good point.

[Karen]

Depends on what kind of Toyota you have? Corolla, Matrix, Tacoma.....most likely from Fremont, CA. Camry? Probably Kentucky. Tundra? Texas.

My Toyota was definitely made in Japan. The way you can know for sure is the VIN number. If it starts with a "J" as the first character, it's from there.