Non-Hawaiians seek entry into Kau Inoa registry

[Mililani]

William Burgess says if the 5 non-hawaiians are not allowed to register with Kau Inoa there will likely be a lawsuit. He says the U.S. Constitution forbids race discrimination in public voting.

Good grief!

[Leo Lakio]

Ah...Mr. Burgess does seem to have found his calling in life, doesn't he? Wonder what his wife's kanaka ancestors would say of his activities, were they still around today?

[Keanu]

Burgess is just a bitter old bag. I truely believe in karma;I wouldn't be suprised to see Burgess and his criminal cabal get their just comeuppance for their consistent attack on Hawaiian programs.

[GeckoGeek]

Hasn't anyone learned from Rice vs Cayetano? Race based voting isn't legal. Not until the Akaka Bill or something like it gets passed.

Say what you like about Burgess motives, but he may be doing everyone a favor. Because the first time these elected officials do something that gores someone's sacred cow, they'll run to the courts and the whole thing is likely to be ruled invalid due to illegal voting. He's preventing people from wasting a lot of time and energy only to get shot out of the water when things get rough.

[Keanu]

Hasn't anyone learned from Rice vs Cayetano? Race based voting isn't legal. Not until the Akaka Bill or something like it gets passed.

Say what you like about Burgess motives, but he may be doing everyone a favor. Because the first time these elected officials do something that gores someone's sacred cow, they'll run to the courts and the whole thing is likely to be ruled invalid due to illegal voting. He's preventing people from wasting a lot of time and energy only to get shot out of the water when things get rough.

Kau Inoa is Hawaiian-community initiative, nothing more than a registry at this point.

I for one am sick of hearing about the "Illegality" of these issues. If you want to talk about Illegal acts, let's start with the the annexation of Hawai'i and move on to Hawaii's plebiscite vote.

[timkona]

It is good to have pride in one's culture, race, ethnicity, etc.

But there is simply nothing special about being Hawaiian. Or American. Or Nigerian. Or Chinese. Or any other specific identity. It does not matter who your parents were. Or what your genes are made of. Or where you came from. Brown people mate with white people mate with red people mate with yellow people mate with mixed folks. Your sister looks hot. And she will love who she chooses, regardless of the colors. Does that anger you? Do you hate your nieces and nephews? Or do you hate your own children because your mate is a different race than you? See what I mean?

Racism, and racial ethnocentrism, is stupid. I bet the mixing of 3 more generations will water down any ethnocentrism to the point where it will no longer be a concern to anybody. So that means the racists have about 100 years left.

The caterwalling over Kau Inoa vs. Burgess reminds me of things I read about America right after the Civil War, and during the Jim Crow South era, when Modern Americans were singing the same tune as Hawaiians are today. Einstein can't run the clock backwards, and neither can you.

Humans are Humans. Welcome to Planet Earth.

PS - Wasn't there a story about how racism, and racial ethnocentrism, was eliminated from Earth when an Alien species attacked us.

[GeckoGeek]

I for one am sick of hearing about the "Illegality" of these issues. If you want to talk about Illegal acts, let's start with the the annexation of Hawai'i and move on to Hawaii's plebiscite vote.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Multiple wrongs lead to a path of anarchy.

I'm not against what they are trying to do, but they need to get something though so that Hawaiians can legally receive preferential treatment. That's not going to be easy, but that's the only way it will work. And what has happened is the key to getting that act though congress.

[GeckoGeek]

I bet the mixing of 3 more generations will water down any ethnocentrism to the point where it will no longer be a concern to anybody. So that means the racists have about 100 years left.

I'm not taking that bet. Yes, there will be mixing. But by in large people stick to their own kind. Not necessarily in a racial sense, but in a cultural sense.

I asked the question about dilution of blood to someone knowledgeable about the situation. The response was that is has greatly slowed. The existing blood quantum will be around for some time.

Maybe in a 1000 years it will be a non-issue. But not in 100.

[Miulang]

MY DH had an interesting idea (and he's haole but feels strongly about the plight of the kanaka maoli): the only things Westerners seem to understand are laws and copyrights and trademarks. Everytime someone thinks something is unfair, they head for the courts, right?

So there are some things that the kanaka maoli can "legally" prove belong to their culture: hula for one and ku (tiki) for another. If OHA or some akamai kanaka maoli group wanted to use the Western system to their own advantage, they could license "hula" and "ku or tiki". Anytime someone who was not kanaka maoli performed hula (or used the word "hula" in any way) or displayed a tiki, they would have to pay a licensing fee to the kanaka maoli. Then for sure the kanaka maoli would get rich.

If Westerners want to get petty, then the kanaka maoli could get petty, too. One of the main reasons why the kanaka maoli ended up in the situation that they have today is because they are so generous, kind and open about sharing what they have, be it their music, their dance, their language or virtually everything else about their culture.:(

Miulang

[LikaNui]

the only things Westerners seem to understand are laws and copyrights and trademarks. Oh puhLEEEEZE. What a massive generalization! Not to mention sheer and utter bullshift. You didn't really think that nonsense would go unchallenged, did you? :mad:

So there are some things that the kanaka maoli can "legally" prove belong to their culture: hula for one and ku (tiki) for another. Yeah right. I'll hold my breath waiting for a judge to make that ruling. :rolleyes:

If OHA or some akamai kanaka maoli group wanted to use the Western system to their own advantage, they could license "hula" and "ku or tiki". Anytime someone who was not kanaka maoli performed hula (or used the word "hula" in any way) or displayed a tiki, they would have to pay a licensing fee to the kanaka maoli. Then for sure the kanaka maoli would get rich. But then your so-called "Westerners" could do the exact same thing in reverse and charge the kanaka maoli for everything they use that the "Westerners" created. Wanna guess who'd come out ahead on that deal?
Sheesh.

If Westerners want to get petty, then the kanaka maoli could get petty, too. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

The next time you have an idea... just let it go.
:mad:

[Leo Lakio]

If Westerners want to get petty, then the kanaka maoli could get petty, too.Let's hope not, however. As already stated:Two wrongs don't make a right. Multiple wrongs lead to a path of anarchy.

[Whitepoint3rchum]

I'm going to have to agree with Muilang here. Point one: "Get off my property". Prima Facie.

That would be hilarious if the Kanaka Maoli did get some type of exclusive right to those two words. It would be interesting to see what the general public came up to replace them.

Lika Nui are you from Hawai'i? Just a point of curiousity, totally unrelated to anything in this thread. I just know the backgrounds of most of the folk here on HT (to a very vague degree, of course) but every time I come across your avatar I can't remember anything about you. Again no hostility here, just curious.

[Whitepoint3rchum]

Since when is being petty a wrong?

[Peshkwe]

Eh...easy way to shut em up...incorporate

Become a non-profit Mutual Benefit Corporation.

http://www.sec.state.vt.us/tutor/dobiz/forms/definitions/mutben.htm

[Mililani]

It's actually simple to resolve. Kau Inoa should have another register for those who would like to be part of the new hawaiian nation but have no hawaiian lineage.

Burgess and his goons want to be on the Kau Inoa list, they can sign up on that one! He is not hawaiian! His ancestors were not here, dey was down south making any kind to da popolo's. He's just bringing that same mentality to Hawaii.

It's amazing to see people defend Burgess and his kind. When they win suits they make megabucks off the people, but word things so smoothly that people believe the government will end up paying. WE, the taxpayers, are the government from whom he screws over!

[Mililani]

But there is simply nothing special about being Hawaiian.

YES there is! :D

Racism, and racial ethnocentrism, is stupid.

I agree, but racism is a white man's word. Why do you use that word so much? :confused: This has absolutely nothing to do with race! This has to do with keeping a people and culture intact.

The hawaiian's are only trying to hold on to what little is left. Too much has already been taken away, but apparently some people believe we should be left with nothing, but it ain't going to happen. There are more hawaiians learning how to play the white man's game. We would rather have things done peacefully, but if it turns ugly, we are better prepared today to stand up and fight for what is pono. We'll win. ;)

[Random]

Should I be curious about this issue, or the one where five Native Hawaiian filed suit against OHA (the one where they were supposed to help those with minimum 50% Hawaiian blood but they extend to those of lesser blood requirement)?

[glossyp]

I agree, but racism is a white man's word.

Actually, that is not true. The equivalent word exists in at least five other languages I can think of, and three of those are Asian. The concept of embracing one's own race and/or culture over others is certainly not exclusive to Caucasians.

[Keanu]

Actually, that is not true. The equivalent word exists in at least five other languages I can think of, and three of those are Asian. The concept of embracing one's own race and/or culture over others is certainly not exclusive to Caucasians.

According to the second edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, the earliest known usage of the word "racism" occurred in a 1936 book by an American "fascist", Lawrence Dennis, in "The Coming American Fascism". Kind of ironic huh? seems like Mililani was correct.:)

[sinjin]

IMO trying to beat the "white man" at his own game is the surest way to lose one's identity in the end. The more you behave like your enemy, the more you become like him. I would recommend turning your back on him. What form exactly that would take I cannot say. Just say NO to Spam would be a start.:D

[Mahi Waina]

IMO trying to beat the "white man" at his own game is the surest way to lose one's identity in the end. The more you behave like your enemy, the more you become like him. I would recommend turning your back on him. What form exactly that would take I cannot say. Just say NO to Spam would be a start.:D

Then you also say no to paved roads, schools and hospitals. Wouldn't it be better if we imua together?

[glossyp]

According to the second edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, the earliest known usage of the word "racism" occurred in a 1936 book by an American "fascist", Lawrence Dennis, in "The Coming American Fascism". Kind of ironic huh? seems like Mililani was correct.:)
Yes, in reference to the specific English word "racism". I was referring to the general concept of racism or racial superiority - perhaps too broad a definition for this discussion - and the existence of equivalent words in other languages/cultures.

[sinjin]

Then you also say no to paved roads, schools and hospitals. Wouldn't it be better if we imua together?Despite the fact that those things already existed in the world when my ancestors were still dressed in skins, I take your point. IMO, yes it is better to build a future together but I, as a haole, deserve no vote in the matter. It seems to me it would require that the haole not be characterized as the oppressor, the usurper, the invader any longer. I think that letting that go would not be an easy matter for many. I would only hope that whatever is the future of Hawaii, that it can be on terms decided by Hawaiians.

[GeckoGeek]

So there are some things that the kanaka maoli can "legally" prove belong to their culture: hula for one and ku (tiki) for another.

Won't happen. You can't copyright/trade mark an entire style. There's no precedent for copyrighting/trade marking traditional songs or dance. You can copyright a *new* song, but not a old one where the author is long dead.

Besides, it would require the Hawaiians to actually get together with one voice. From what I've seen that's been the biggest problem for them to get anywhere. If they could do that, then they could get a version of the Akaka Bill passed that they want and get official recognition for their status.

[Miulang]

Won't happen. You can't copyright/trade mark an entire style. There's no precedent for copyrighting/trade marking traditional songs or dance. You can copyright a *new* song, but not a old one where the author is long dead.

Besides, it would require the Hawaiians to actually get together with one voice. From what I've seen that's been the biggest problem for them to get anywhere. If they could do that, then they could get a version of the Akaka Bill passed that they want and get official recognition for their status.
Ahhh...this may be true today, but as you stated, laws are based on precedents. And if a precedent is set, then the laws can change. In Australia, for instance, the government there recognizes the aboriginal right of the first people to have trademarks placed on their "indigenous cultural intellectual property (http://www.artslaw.com.au/LegalInformation/Indigenous/ICIP.asp)". There's no reason on earth why some of the akamai young kanaka maoli who are going through law school today can't attempt to put something like what Australia has to protect its aboriginal people in place here in the US.

And believe it or not, the kanaka maoli activists are coalescing. The activists who aren't with Kau Inoa have gathered together in an informal group called Hui Pu. They are the political arm of the kanaka maoli movement.

Miulang

[GeckoGeek]

From the link given:

3. Does Australian law protect ICIP?
Australian law only protects some ICIP, including:




Works that are protected by Australian copyright law. Australian copyright law protects the material expression of an idea eg in a painting, a song that is written down or taped or a written story
Moral rights of individual artists
Designs that come under the Australian Designs Act

Australian law does not protect other aspects of ICIP, including:


The underlying idea or information that is put into a work eg the story told in a painting
A style or method of art eg cross hatching or dots
Some performances such as dance and music if they have not been recorded at all
In general, a community’s rights in an artwork



Looks like it's more a concept rather then law.

[Miulang]

From the link given:

3. Does Australian law protect ICIP?
Australian law only protects some ICIP, including:




Works that are protected by Australian copyright law. Australian copyright law protects the material expression of an idea eg in a painting, a song that is written down or taped or a written story
Moral rights of individual artists
Designs that come under the Australian Designs Act

Australian law does not protect other aspects of ICIP, including:


The underlying idea or information that is put into a work eg the story told in a painting
A style or method of art eg cross hatching or dots
Some performances such as dance and music if they have not been recorded at all
In general, a community’s rights in an artwork



Looks like it's more a concept rather then law.
Another example (http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?13+Duke+J.+Comp.+&+Int'l+L.+203#H2N1)...this could get interesting if the kanaka maoli ever decided to pursue this recourse (they already have been recognized by the UN as an indigenous people).:cool:

[LikaNui]

Were Hawaiians the very first to ever carve tiki? The very first to ever hula?
Seems to me that other Polynesian cultures were the originators and Hawaiians merely put their own spin on tiki and hula, which would make other cultures the owners of the wishful "copyright", eh?

[craigwatanabe]

Were Hawaiians the very first to ever carve tiki? The very first to ever hula?
Seems to me that other Polynesian cultures were the originators and Hawaiians merely put their own spin on tiki and hula, which would make other cultures the owners of the wishful "copyright", eh?

Oh well in the end we're all Chinese anyway right?:D

[Keanu]

Were Hawaiians the very first to ever carve tiki? The very first to ever hula?
Seems to me that other Polynesian cultures were the originators and Hawaiians merely put their own spin on tiki and hula, which would make other cultures the owners of the wishful "copyright", eh?

Hawaiians were the first to carve Ki'i with the images of Ku, Kane, Lono.

Hula originated in Hawai'i. Other Polynesian cultures have their own cultural dances but those dances are not Hula. Hi'iaka, the patroness of Hula, is a Hawaiian deity.

You're welcome.

[TuNnL]

Getting back to the topic, I believe Kau Inoa is even more urgent, now that the U.S. census bureau has come out with some questionable numbers (http://honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/NEWS01/708090342) for kanaka maoli. Apparently some are disputing the government’s assessment. So I would say, that makes it even more crucial that Kau Inoa limit their registry to those with native Hawaiian blood.

If anything, it will allow them to get a more accurate count of just how many kanaka maoli live in their homeland. :cool:

[timkona]

Mililani said "another registry" - ahh, separate but equal. Brilliant !!

Miulang thinks it IS special to be Hawaiian.

As I said, both of these arguments sound exactly like what white folks were saying 50 years ago.

Why would you mimic behaviors of people that you don't agree with?

History is a harsh task master.

[Miulang]

Mililani said "another registry" - ahh, separate but equal. Brilliant !!

Miulang thinks it IS special to be Hawaiian.

As I said, both of these arguments sound exactly like what white folks were saying 50 years ago.

Why would you mimic behaviors of people that you don't agree with?

History is a harsh task master.
The kanaka maoli ARE special because of what happened to them in the past. The world is coming to realize that indigenous people and their cultures are treasures and that they should be allowed to practice their culture in their own way. They should not have to be assimilated into the mainstream if they don't want to be assimilated. Indigenous people walked on their lands first, and they should be given respect for that.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

The kanaka maoli ARE special because of what happened to them in the past. Name one culture -- just one! -- anywhere on the planet, that has not suffered oppression in the past.
Explain why every other oppressed culture is not also special.
Explain how a given culture can be "special" if they have suffered the same as everyone else on the planet.
:rolleyes:

The world is coming to realize that (...) The entire world? Massive over-generalization, unsupported by factual references.
Or did you find that on Wikipedia?

:rolleyes:

[Whitepoint3rchum]

^ So what's up? Haven't gotten a response, which could be explained away by my being on ignore, but...

[timkona]

Change a few words in Miulangs post and it sounds something like this:

White people and white culture are a treasure and they should be allowed to practice their culture in their own way, White people should be given respect because when they got here, they took over.

Sounds silly huh? I'm all for practicing culture. Anybody's culture. Fun is fun no matter what label you put on it. Perhaps Hawaiians should bring back human sacrifice, and abandon the Christian religion, in order that they can have a little more legitamacy. Yeah right....and maybe white folk will start up slavery again. NOT !!

One of my favorite cultural pasttimes that many Hawaiian children partake in is called Soccer. Look at all those happy kids practicing their culture.

Inconsistency is the hallmark of most "indigenous" preservationists.

[Keanu]

Name one culture -- just one! -- anywhere on the planet, that has not suffered oppression in the past.

I might have to dig through my history books a little deeper but I'm pretty sure Anglos were never opressed by other cultures


Explain why every other oppressed culture is not also special.
Think location. Hawaiians are special here because these islands are their ancestral home.


Explain how a given culture can be "special" if they have suffered the same as everyone else on the planet.
Same as everybody else? You should back your comments up with facts.

[Keanu]

Change a few words in Miulangs post and it sounds something like this:

White people and white culture are a treasure and they should be allowed to practice their culture in their own way, White people should be given respect because when they got here, they took over.

Not even remotely similar Tim.


One of my favorite cultural pasttimes that many Hawaiian children partake in is called Soccer. Look at all those happy kids practicing their culture.



Pssst Tim, Asians are not Hawaiians. Well, not unless they have the magic koko.

[Keoni Martin]

More slimy lawyering done by the anti-Hawaiian group. I'm not really sure what these people want, since they don't seem to be adversely impacted by the existence of the list (which I haven't signed up for, since I don't really need another T-shirt). Perhaps Thurston Twigg-Smith needed to take up a new hobby after his retirement from the Advertiser, so he and his buddies helped form a little mutal appreciation society dedicated to annoying Hawaiian activists. Not that annoying activists isn't a bad thing, necessarily, but becoming one in the process is doubly annoying.

I don't have any unique ideas at all or opinions worth considering on the issue of Hawaiian sovereignty, but I believe that Hawaiians, just like every other people, have a right to have pride in their own ethnicity. Perhaps this is irrational; if it is, then it is an irrationality on the same level as pride in one's country or family. It is irrational because love is irrational. After all, isn't an ethnos merely a large extended family? There's nothing wrong, then, in being a little "ethnocentric"!

Of course, men commit atrocities in the name of ethnic pride, just as they do in the name of religion, or the nation, or whatever. But abuse does not invalidate proper use. As long as we make sure to differentiate the difference between fanaticism and piety, between nationalism and patriotism, and between racism and ethnic pride, then we can breathe easy. If Americans of whatever ethnicity want to celebrate their unique heritage, let them do so. There is no such thing as a "mere human" and thank God for that! Otherwise we'd be living in quite a dull society.

[LikaNui]

I might have to dig through my history books a little deeper but I'm pretty sure Anglos were never opressed by other cultures. "Might?" Oh, you definitely need to dig deeper. Or, assuming you had a decent edumacashun, just take a minute or two to think about what you just said.

Hawaiians are special here because these islands are their ancestral home. Ah, but Miulang did not say Hawaiians are special "here" -- she merely said they're special, period. Big big difference.

Same as everybody else? You should back your comments up with facts. Why? I said "Explain how a given culture can be "special" if they have suffered the same as everyone else on the planet." I didn't say everyone had suffered the same things, just that every culture has suffered, period.
Comprehension skills usually enable folks to have a better discussion, k?
:rolleyes:

[LikaNui]

More slimy lawyering done by the anti-Hawaiian group. I'm not really sure what these people want, since they don't seem to be adversely impacted by the existence of the list (which I haven't signed up for, since I don't really need another T-shirt). Perhaps Thurston Twigg-Smith needed to take up a new hobby after his retirement from the Advertiser, so he and his buddies helped form a little mutal appreciation society dedicated to annoying Hawaiian activists. Not that annoying activists isn't a bad thing, necessarily, but becoming one in the process is doubly annoying.

I don't have any unique ideas at all or opinions worth considering on the issue of Hawaiian sovereignty, but I believe that Hawaiians, just like every other people, have a right to have pride in their own ethnicity. Perhaps this is irrational; if it is, then it is an irrationality on the same level as pride in one's country or family. It is irrational because love is irrational. After all, isn't an ethnos merely a large extended family? There's nothing wrong, then, in being a little "ethnocentric"!

Of course, men commit atrocities in the name of ethnic pride, just as they do in the name of religion, or the nation, or whatever. But abuse does not invalidate proper use. As long as we make sure to differentiate the difference between fanaticism and piety, between nationalism and patriotism, and between racism and ethnic pride, then we can breathe easy. If Americans of whatever ethnicity want to celebrate their unique heritage, let them do so. There is no such thing as a "mere human" and thank God for that! Otherwise we'd be living in quite a dull society. This is the first time I've ever quoted an entire post, but I've done it in the hope that folks will re-read it. Unbelievably sensible, and it's Keoni's very first post here! [/applause] There's not a single word that I disagree with.
My basic point has always been that pride in ethnicity is perfectly fine. Demanding special treatment isn't.
Welcome to HT, Keoni!

[Keoni Martin]

My basic point has always been that pride in ethnicity is perfectly fine. Demanding special treatment isn't.
Welcome to HT, Keoni!

Mahalo nui loa. I hope you'll find my point of view to be refreshingly independent. I have my own unique ideas for promoting the Hawaiian nation, since I am in part one of the Tribe. Suffice it to say that they do not involve special lists or more Federal programs.

[GeckoGeek]

I believe that Hawaiians, just like every other people, have a right to have pride in their own ethnicity.

No disagreement there. But when they start forming groups with definitive entrance requirement (like blood quantum) rather then anyone who is interested, I start wondering what's up.

[Mahi Waina]

The world is coming to realize that indigenous people and their cultures are treasures and that they should be allowed to practice their culture in their own way. Miulang

This is an excellent point and brings a larger issue into the discussion. The US is barely hanging on to its status as the last 'superpower' and good riddance!

A lot of us have been fighting for minority (racial, women's, disabled, gay) rights for years, and neocons/PNACers are giving us a bad name through their last, desperate attempts to cling to imperialist ways.

My only caveat would be that if any nation, culture or religion would defend oppression against its own people, for example genital mutilation of young girls, then there needs to be a united effort by enlightened citizens of the world to stop it, by education or force if necessary.

Who would lead this force? It can't be the US, because there is no credibility left. If a leader emerges, it won't be a caucasian, but hopefully it will include like-minded caucasians as part of its constituency, and the healing can begin.

[Leo Lakio]

If a leader emerges, it won't be a caucasian, but hopefully it will include like-minded caucasians as part of its constituency, and the healing can begin.Why not? How can you heal if you begin with a tenet of exclusion?

[Mahi Waina]

Why not? How can you heal if you begin with a tenet of exclusion?

IMHO, of course:

We will be tearing down a system based on oppression and racism for the last two millenia, that just happened to be perpetrated by caucasian Europeans because they developed industrial technology first. I can totally understand how there would be mistrust of any caucasian purporting to lead the way to a new paradigm; that has been cruelly abused in the past, i.e. Christianity.

As a caucasian, I want more than anything to contribute to, and be accepted in, the new world community that I help build. I viscerally resent being excluded, as you would know from previous posts.

I would throw my support behind any third-world leader that demonstrated leadership, compassion and vision, even as my own government would brand me a traitor. For example, I am involved with advocating for developmentally disabled citizens. Hugo Chavez has put into law support structures that it will take decades for us to achieve in the US, even without the neocons taking us backwards since the 70's.

When I read the vitriolic posts against haoles in this forum, I despair in ever being accepted or taken seriously as a supporter of Hawaiian culture in my lifetime. So be it. There are still marginalized people that need help all over the world.

[sinjin]

When I read the vitriolic posts against haoles in this forum, I despair in ever being accepted or taken seriously as a supporter of Hawaiian culture in my lifetime. So be it.Sadly, acceptance of this is not something I'm willing to make the reality of my children's lives and so I may never live in the place I love above all others.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Kau Inoa is designed to be voluntary Native Hawaiian registry whose first mistake is to give any notion that the control and maintenance of said registry is in any hands other than the Hawaiian Civic Clubs. OHA's connection to Kau Inoa should be noted in that they funded the registry with computers to physically house/store the data, as well as paid for the PR campaigns.

But OHA does not control/maintain/have access to the registry. I needed to know this because I have the kuleana within my own family to research whether or not we should register.

http://www.hawaiimaoli.org/KauInoa/FAQ.htm

Historically, it was the role of the different Hawaiian Civic Clubs to champion for decisions that were made in the AhaOlelo (Legislature). These were the first grassroots lobbying groups. Long before relegating their activities to the latest parade, the Hawaiian Civic Clubs were responsible for rallying the people--kama'aina, malihini, mahiko, 'oihanahana--to push for legislation and social reforms. In this respect, Kau Inoa is true to the roots of the land in terms of the process by which one gathers data for something as important as future governance. I have made my stance very clear in the past regarding my distrust for an OHA-backed initiative, but because it is imperative to me to base my decision upon fact, I have opened my mind considerably on the Kau Inoa process--even if I have yet to agree that my family should register.

That said, this thread, like so many others, really seems to stick to the same 'ol same 'ol pattern displayed around here. How often must the term 'racist' be bandied about before any of us bothers to go back and relook at broad opinions on the topic?

C'mon gang. There are a lot of pearls around just HT on the subject, potentials, reasons for, and wary pitfalls of sovereignty, Hawaiian rights, Y2K concerns, racial melding, economic drivers and co-existing autonomy. Hawai'i has the answers right in our face. It behooves us to take critical looks at them and have the guts to embrace those answers.

[Keoni Martin]

It's funny that the post-colonialist mindset you exemplify is based on theories developed by white European men. It's simply a form of Marxism with race substituted for class. If anything good will happen for the indigenous peoples of the world, it will be based upon a return to local governance and agrarian traditions, not some utopian revolutionary rhetoric. Indeed, such utopian thinking was what caused the West to infuse their imperial adventures with demonic fervor. We must stop this nonsense somewhere. Simple is best. Hawaiians don't need a demagogue like Chavez, they need more farmers.

We will be tearing down a system based on oppression and racism for the last two millenia, that just happened to be perpetrated by caucasian Europeans because they developed industrial technology first.

[Mahi Waina]

It's funny that the post-colonialist mindset you exemplify is based on theories developed by white European men. It's simply a form of Marxism with race substituted for class. If anything good will happen for the indigenous peoples of the world, it will be based upon a return to local governance and agrarian traditions, not some utopian revolutionary rhetoric. Indeed, such utopian thinking was what caused the West to infuse their imperial adventures with demonic fervor. We must stop this nonsense somewhere. Simple is best. Hawaiians don't need a demagogue like Chavez, they need more farmers.

Utopian thinking is to believe that 6.4 billion people are going to go away so that 2 million indigenous people (estimated carrying capacity of Earth without technology) can live an agrarian lifestyle.

[Keoni Martin]

Better to have fertile soil than a bunch of hot air, in my unworthy opinion. Besides, I never said that everyone should live an agrarian lifestyle, or that such a state is desirable.

It has been estimated that the pre-contact population of Hawaii approached a million people. Now, given that the state of sururban sprawl has greatly decreased the acreage of arable land, we can't strictly return exactly to the way things were. On the other hand, the fact remains that we import 90% of our food. Imagine if somehow shipping costs soared beyond belief (like in most peak oil scenarios). We'd be dead. Therefore, for the sake of this land and its people, sustainable agriculture should be priority one. At least that's what this (mostly) non-Caucasian thinks.

Anyway, count me out of your revolution. But don't shoot me.

Utopian thinking is to believe that 6.4 billion people are going to go away so that 2 million indigenous people (estimated carrying capacity of Earth without technology) can live an agrarian lifestyle.

[joshuatree]

Imagine if somehow shipping costs soared beyond belief (like in most peak oil scenarios). We'd be dead.

I think we just go back to greener methods of shipping like back to sails.

[Mahi Waina]

Anyway, count me out of your revolution. But don't shoot me.

If you fight what Castle and Cook did in Hawaii, then you already joined the revolution, because Fidel Castro fought the same company (Standard Fruit) in Honduras. And if you think that is ancient history, google on 'Prescott Bush and John Foster Dulles.'

I'm not violent, but while we are talking, others are already shooting.

[DKP]

Everyone tends to forget who these plaintiffs are. Go to the library and look them all up on microfiche. Can you say arrogant? Can you say vultures? Can you say 'they'll never let Hawaiians have control of THEIR OWN destiny and wish to dominate in every aspect of business here?'

I hope you all know they work for A&B and the reamainder of the Big Five and are doing this for financial gain of both the companies involved and themselves.

It is quite simple (look this up for evidence...I'm tired of further explaining...and I mean look this up at the library and state gov. archives, NOT the internet):

Alexander & Baldwin own Matson. They bring in most of our shite. They are also the ones developing most of the remaining open spaces that are supposed to be zoned for agriculture. They have also been instrumental in obtaining lands that would be used for DHHL for their own development (which is where one aspect of their lawsuits come in). Less agriculture = more shipping weight = more profit.

They have us all by the balls w/the fuel surcharge. Ask most any farm/nursery here if you don't beleive.

Keoni Martin's comment was pretty accurate. After all, more than anything else, Hawaiian culture was a celebration of plant and ocean life in the Hawaiian Islands. Rather than removing the people from their environment, these guys wish to 'take the island from the boy'. Either way, it's an aggressive tactic that should be disrespected.

I wonder what 'Iolani Palace will be like this Friday?

[DKP]

Dupont, Monsanto, Dow, and Syngenta are also making it more difficult for farmers/nursery workers. I personally know someone who lost $12 mil. on Hawai'i island in product and is having the hardest time fighting Dupont in court (you'll see the story in Hawai'i Reporter very soon).

Overview
http://www.higean.org/what-impact.htm

[Keoni Martin]

I think we just go back to greener methods of shipping like back to sails.

Of course we will. But of course the snail-pace shipping speeds that sails and other pre-1900 methods of shipping that we might revert to as a result of peak oil will prevent us all from enjoying the level of consumption we have been used to until this point. All the better to turn to self-reliance.

[anapuni808]

I wonder what 'Iolani Palace will be like this Friday?

It won't look like it did last year. The Friends of `Iolani Palace hold the permit this year. There is a ceremony planned that will be respectful of the place and the people and will show recognition to the Kingdom.

[joshuatree]

Of course we will. But of course the snail-pace shipping speeds that sails and other pre-1900 methods of shipping that we might revert to as a result of peak oil will prevent us all from enjoying the level of consumption we have been used to until this point. All the better to turn to self-reliance.

Not necessarily, let us assume we can build modern computer controlled sailing ships, GPS, etc etc. Then all one needs is a fleet of these ships to provide the frequency. Yes, I know I'm dreaming but hey, who knows right? :)

[infinitypro]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y103/NEENZ/KAHNOOMAIYAHNEENZ.bmp
My sister Kanoe, my neice Maiyah and NEENZ.
REGISTERED. GOT OUR TSHIRTS. FILMED THE COMMERCIAL.

[pzarquon]

T-shirts aren't what Hawaiians are all about (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Aug/16/ln/hawaii708160308.html)
If Bill Burgess and his hui want Kau Inoa shirts so bad, they can have mine. [...] Why do they want the shirts so badly? What do they think comes with the shirts? Good parking at the Cazimeros' May Day concert? Twenty percent off a Sig Zane mu'umu'u? VIP seating at Merrie Monarch? [...] You could wear a Kau Inoa shirt, get your name on the list and your life would not change at all. If anyone thinks being Native Hawaiian means suddenly your life is easy or charmed, he couldn't be more mistaken.

[infinitypro]

T-shirts aren't what Hawaiians are all about (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Aug/16/ln/hawaii708160308.html)

I agree, as I almost often do with Lee Cataluna.

I accepted a long time ago that there are those in the world who find their purpose by engaging in behavior as does BURGESS. I disagree with him and his irritating affect.

What can I do? Continue as I've been raised: perserverence, acceptance, open-mindedness, to work hard, read, read, read...and guide my own children accordingly with hopes that their future will be better than the one I have provided. But, I also hope that they will experience a unified time for Hawaiian people...unfortunately, that may be too idealistic right now.

[GeckoGeek]

T-shirts aren't what Hawaiians are all about (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Aug/16/ln/hawaii708160308.html)

But isn't Kau Inoa about more then just T-shirts? Isn't that kind of a back handed comment on the group? (Perhaps accurate, but back handed just the same.)

[Hot Dog]

Ok: can I put my 0.02 in?

As someone who was born and raised in Hawai'i, but CANNOT PROVE his lineage, I say "DAS OK" Cuz I dont need a SHIRT to show my PRIDE!

I wont mention what "Nationalities" I am, but sufficed to say I Was NEVER close to either one, I've always been CLOSE to HAWAI'I.

Yes, there may be a difference in being "HAWAI'IAN" and being "FROM HAWAI'I", I respect that.

My feelings, however, will NEVER change. I LOVE MY LAND, 'cuz fo' ALL my LIFE, my land LOVED ME!

sorry if this is off-topic, just wanted to put my 0.02, das all!

-S-