Ahhhh China - A Proud Nation With A Long History!

[kamuelakea]

Gotta love the Chinese. No wonder my ancestor bailed out of that country bound for Hawaii. Their one party system actually makes Hawaii's one party system look tame.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070829/ap_on_re_as/china_forced_abortion

By ALEXA OLESEN, Associated Press Writer Wed Aug 29, 12:35 PM ET

QIAN'AN, China - Yang Zhongchen, a small-town businessman, wined and dined three government officials for permission to become a father.

But the Peking duck and liquor weren't enough. One night, a couple of weeks before her date for giving birth, Yang's wife was dragged from her bed in a north China town and taken to a clinic, where, she says, her baby was killed by injection while still inside her.

"Several people held me down, they ripped my clothes aside and the doctor pushed a large syringe into my stomach," says Jin Yani, a shy, petite woman with a long ponytail. "It was very painful. ... It was all very rough."

Seven years after the dead baby was pulled from her body with forceps, Jin remains traumatized and, the couple and a doctor say, unable to bear children. Yang and Jin have made the rounds of government offices pleading for restitution — to no avail.

[PoiBoy]

check out the documentary the dying rooms. it makes that article look tame.

Gotta love the Chinese.
gotta love the Chinese people, mostly decent hard working people. its their gov thats hmmmm. lots of stuff going on in china. and you gotta love that they were chosen to host the olympics. makes you go hmmmmmmm

[MixedPlateBroker]

Just wait til the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints gets a foothold there.:p

[GeckoGeek]

Just wait til the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints gets a foothold there.:p

Hmmm. Yes, that could be interesting. While they believe in families, they also believe in obeying the law of the land. They'd have to gain enough of a foothold to gain political clout before they could do much about it.

I think the Catholics would be more interesting.

[joshuatree]

check out the documentary the dying rooms. it makes that article look tame.


gotta love the Chinese people, mostly decent hard working people. its their gov thats hmmmm. lots of stuff going on in china. and you gotta love that they were chosen to host the olympics. makes you go hmmmmmmm

I think it's better to include them in world events such as the olympics. If you compare the country now to what it was 30 years ago, they've made tremendous leaps and bounds of progress. Although there is plenty of things still wrong there, you can actually find grass root movements there now such as pet's rights or environmental awareness. I rather prefer this evolution than a revolution because that would be an even uglier mess.

[Menehune Man]

It's wrong. Period.

Making jokes about various dimensions (yeah, I know it's denominations) of Christianity ain't cool. Lame people. All around. :rolleyes:

[tikiyaki]

China is a lawless, f*cked up place. My fiancee' is from Taiwan, and tells me horror stories about China all the time. It's blossoming economy will only benefit the government, because they take all the money. The people are really insignificant to the government.

Directly the opposite of the Japanese, they have little or no honor among people either. It's like dog eat dog over there.

That is a particularly sad story. :-(

[joshuatree]

China is a lawless, f*cked up place. My fiancee' is from Taiwan, and tells me horror stories about China all the time. It's blossoming economy will only benefit the government, because they take all the money. The people are really insignificant to the government.

Directly the opposite of the Japanese, they have little or no honor among people either. It's like dog eat dog over there.

That is a particularly sad story. :-(

So a few horror stories and you've got the entire picture? :confused:

The blossoming economy will obviously benefit the government but it has also benefited the people. And as the people benefit, they learn to demand more accountability from their gov't. Go visit China and NK and compare the two. For all the flaws China still has, and there are some pretty big flaws, they've advanced by leaps and bounds compared to 30 years ago.

The Japanese have honor? Boy did you open a can of worms. While they may be polite and honorable amongst themselves, I wouldn't call it honor when they have denial issues with their WW2 past. They can't even acknowledge and make a formal apology to the numerous comfort women yet they try to set up a private fund to pay them off. Oh, that's real honorable......

[Mahi Waina]

Cross-cultural comparisons are always dangerous. We debate whether to allow abortions, but would that be true if, like in China, we saw starvation as a direct result of overpopulation?

[joshuatree]

Cross-cultural comparisons are always dangerous. We debate whether to allow abortions, but would that be true if, like in China, we saw starvation as a direct result of overpopulation?

That's true, broad generalizations are always dangerous. While the original post was of a tragic incident, one that I believe the authorities involved should be hung, here's another incident that shows progress is happening. While the issue is manini, I'm pretty sure 30 years ago, you couldn't even protest over the issue.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070831/od_nm/china_hug1_dc

[PoiBoy]

Directly the opposite of the Japanese, they have little or no honor among people either. It's like dog eat dog over there.
(
Japanese honor :confused: Dont fall for that. Maybe no more honorable than other races. but I never heard of something like the Rape of Nanking. Its ranking pretty high on my worst atrocities ever list. Sickest sh*t imo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

and look on the net for pictures of it. Poor little babies. :( :mad:

[tikiyaki]

My fiancee' has spent ALOT of time over there doing business, and while the generalizations may be broad, it is more than just a "few incidents".

Maybe the comparisons to Japan were offsides, I admit that, I just know the many stories she tells me about China. Being born and raised in Taiwan, with a Chinese father, I take her word for it.

Look at the recent food and toy poisonings as a tip of the iceberg. There is alot more where that came from. Very little health codes in the food industry and regulations in business.

I'm just telling you what I've been told from someone who knows better than me.

Also, The Rape of nanking and WWII were a LONG time ago...historic events that the world has learned from.

[Leo Lakio]

I never heard of something like the Rape of Nanking.I'd suggest you investigate the atrocities of the Chinese when it comes to Tibetan nuns and monks. Or look into the Khmer Rouge regime of Cambodia. Or events in Rwanda from a couple of years ago.

There is no ethnic monopoly on horrendous human-on-human violence.

[joshuatree]

I'd suggest you investigate the atrocities of the Chinese when it comes to Tibetan nuns and monks. Or look into the Khmer Rouge regime of Cambodia. Or events in Rwanda from a couple of years ago.

There is no ethnic monopoly on horrendous human-on-human violence.

No there isn't, all we have to do simply look at our own country's history. This is why Tiki's broad sweep at how honorable the Japanese are is...broad.

[PoiBoy]

I'd suggest you investigate the atrocities of the Chinese when it comes to Tibetan nuns and monks. Or look into the Khmer Rouge regime of Cambodia. Or events in Rwanda from a couple of years ago..



PoiBoy said in post #11 "Its ranking pretty high on my worst atrocities ever list."

[PoiBoy]

edit......

[PoiBoy]

My fiancee' has spent ALOT of time over there doing business, and while the generalizations may be broad, it is more than just a "few incidents".

Maybe the comparisons to Japan were offsides, I admit that, I just know the many stories she tells me about China. Being born and raised in Taiwan, with a Chinese father, I take her word for it.


I'm just telling you what I've been told from someone who knows better than me.


If your wife is part Taiwanese aborignal, then that could partly explain why she has a certain opinion on the Chinese.

[tikiyaki]

If your wife is part Taiwanese aborignal, then that could partly explain why she has a certain opinion on the Chinese.

Actually, she was born and raised in Taiwan. Her mom is from Malasia, and her father from China.

When I speak of "honor" with regards to the Japanese, I'm more so referring to the present time. It's 2007, these types of atrocities are not being committed today in Japan (at least not that I'm aware of), while the initial post is speaking of China in the present tense.

To have that kind of atrocity happening today, in a country that is one of the new economic superpowers is simply barbaric. Especially being that it was lawfully allowed to happen.

Speaking of atrocities from more than 50 years ago, is, to me, not relevant to the initial post. This happened in China NOW.

[PoiBoy]

Speaking of atrocities from more than 50 years ago, is, to me, not relevant to the initial post.
You speaking of Japan/Japanese on post 3 is not relevant to this thread. You chose to bring it up for some reason.

To have that kind of atrocity happening today, in a country that is one of the new economic superpowers is simply barbaric. Especially being that it was lawfully allowed to happen.
is that reflective of their gov or the people? *no need to answer*

Directly the opposite of the Japanese, they(Chinese) have little or no honor among people either.

Both you and I in our initial posts in this thread made it clear what we thought of China's governement. Our differences of opinion come from your negative comments on the Chinese people. I place the blame on their government. Given the crap and atrocities committed by their government on the Chinese PEOPLE...I cut the people some slack and I think they have handeled the situation to the best of their abilities. I imagine it is as you say "dog eat dog" over there. But that is related of the high level of poverty in China...A lot of Chinese folks are struggling to feed their families.
I think its just plain dumb to blame the victims(and I know you didnt), and its quite clear that the Chinese people are victims.

If you walked a mile in their shoes..you would have different thoughts on them than what you have expressed in your previous posts. empathy should be practiced friend.

...
comparing the "current" situation of Japan/Japanese to the situation of China/Chinese is not wise. They are two different countries/cultures going through two different periods of their country's development. China is struggling with 1.3 billion people but has made leaps and bounds in recent years(as Joshua has already noted). Japan is relatively stable and has been for some time.

Perhaps 50 years from now you will have a different opinion on your future Masters ....the Chinese. :D

[joshuatree]

When I speak of "honor" with regards to the Japanese, I'm more so referring to the present time. It's 2007, these types of atrocities are not being committed today in Japan (at least not that I'm aware of), while the initial post is speaking of China in the present tense.

When you can't even acknowledge what happened, or even say sorry to the individual victims (not an apology to respective country), or even write a candid school textbook, how is that any different than committing the actual atrocities? I'm not saying the Chinese don't have their share of problems but to compare Japanese vs Chinese is a very touchy subject. Or even if Japanese vs Korean. The Japanese as a society, not individuals, haven't reached the level of reflection the Germans have which is why hardly anyone gives the Germans a hard time over their recent past.

[Leo Lakio]

PoiBoy said in post #11 "Its ranking pretty high on my worst atrocities ever list."You certainly did - and I'm right there with you. I only mentioned the other examples because you said this in the same post:but I never heard of something like ...and I wanted to help you out with a few other ones. All of these events (and many, many, far too many others) are horrid examples of human cruelty; I don't think I could stomach the required analysis to rank them on a list. (And I am sure you share that with me, my friend.)

[PoiBoy]

thanks Leo Lakio, my friend. I already knew about the events you mentioned. But for some reason I dumbed up that post. My lame excuse is lack of sleep...

[tikiyaki]

You speaking of Japan/Japanese on post 3 is not relevant to this thread. You chose to bring it up for some reason.


is that reflective of their gov or the people? *no need to answer*



Both you and I in our initial posts in this thread made it clear what we thought of China's governement. Our differences of opinion come from your negative comments on the Chinese people. I place the blame on their government. Given the crap and atrocities committed by their government on the Chinese PEOPLE...I cut the people some slack and I think they have handeled the situation to the best of their abilities. I imagine it is as you say "dog eat dog" over there. But that is related of the high level of poverty in China...A lot of Chinese folks are struggling to feed their families.
I think its just plain dumb to blame the victims(and I know you didnt), and its quite clear that the Chinese people are victims.

If you walked a mile in their shoes..you would have different thoughts on them than what you have expressed in your previous posts. empathy should be practiced friend.

...
comparing the "current" situation of Japan/Japanese to the situation of China/Chinese is not wise. They are two different countries/cultures going through two different periods of their country's development. China is struggling with 1.3 billion people but has made leaps and bounds in recent years(as Joshua has already noted). Japan is relatively stable and has been for some time.

Perhaps 50 years from now you will have a different opinion on your future Masters ....the Chinese. :D

I agree with you on all counts. Unfortunately, the conditions of ones surroundings can have a definite effect on the shaping of it's people. In the case of China, this is most likely the case. This is the case with other ethnicities too. The problem is when this kind of mentality if brought to the US and affects citizens of the US.

Here in LA we have a few ethnic groups bringing some rather unsavory attitudes and lifestyle practices here, which result in taxpayers paying for abuse of our government assistance programs....simply put...."using our system" while living some rather lavish lifestyles on government/taxpayer coin.

If you live in LA, you'd know what I was speaking of.

But, yes, Chinese people DEFINITELY suffer from a pretty corrupt government.