Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

[joshuatree]

No US state legislature is full-time. Here's how the states break down the work time (source is the National Conference of State Legislatures (http://www.ncsl.org/programs/press/2004/backgrounder_fullandpart.htm)):

So doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that we continue to use a part time structure considering there is so much that needs fixing in our state's system? Also, doesn't it seem to be a conflict of interest to have someone serve as a legislative member yet work outside to supplement their income? :confused:

I'm all for a full time legislature with high paying salaries to attract qualified, dedicated members. But along with the carrot, comes the stick. Any violations of ethics comes along a severe punishment.

The questions you pose are indeed a conundrum......

Plenty of conundrums to ponder...

1) You don't want to rely solely on tourism since they keep drawing in the retirees and chasing out Hawaii's talented youth, yet people continue to chase away ideas that could generate other forms of economy, ie, this ferry.

2) Neighbor islands complain of overbearing representation in the state's gov't by Oahu. They don't want to become another Oahu but the fact that Oahu has the majority of the population will always mean Oahu has the overbearing representation.

3) One talks about lack of homes and any new homes built are beyond affordable. Yet everybody doesn't want to see high rise, dense development which permits affordable units and has a smaller footprint on the land, thus enabling preservation of open land.

4) People are so hung up on protecting jobs that they literally make the cost of business prohibitive thereby choking the growth of jobs, a downward spiral.

[glossyp]

So doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that we continue to use a part time structure considering there is so much that needs fixing in our state's system? Also, doesn't it seem to be a conflict of interest to have someone serve as a legislative member yet work outside to supplement their income? :confused:

I'm all for a full time legislature with high paying salaries to attract qualified, dedicated members. But along with the carrot, comes the stick. Any violations of ethics comes along a severe punishment.
I prefer our legislators to be regular people with jobs or some other form of income. If they are paid high salaries and do nothing else but tell the rest of us what to do, how can they possibly understand what it is like to live in the community? The nature of politics is corrupting and a full time legislature would further the creation of a class of Mandarins dictating from positions of power. I would rather see term limits. Sorry for the topic drift.

[joshuatree]

I prefer our legislators to be regular people with jobs or some other form of income. If they are paid high salaries and do nothing else but tell the rest of us what to do, how can they possibly understand what it is like to live in the community? The nature of politics is corrupting and a full time legislature would further the creation of a class of Mandarins dictating from positions of power. I would rather see term limits. Sorry for the topic drift.

I think that problem is resolved by limiting terms. I feel it's corrupting to be in the gov't and having another job on the side. Best example would be to serve in the Senate and to be in the real estate business. That would be outright conflict of interest on any land development issues. Or to bring the topic back on track, what if someone worked on the board for HSF and is serving in the Senate?

[TuNnL]

TuNnl, you talk like you KNOW Lingle lied or broke the law.I don’t know where you are getting this, but that’s not what I was trying to convey.Here is her comment from the Advertiser today. I don't know if she is lying or not but do you?I don’t. She might believe what she is saying to be true. Whether or not it is, will again, depend on the on the investigation into how the deal came about.

Today’s Honolulu Advertiser (http://honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071014/NEWS09/710140356) brings us closer to the impetus of this scheme.

[1stwahine]

heheheh

Slightly "OFF Topic!"

Now I know you gotta give "dong dong" to dee Politicians when you "Lobby" if you like your Bills/Resolutions pass.:p

Das cROOKED pOLITICS.:mad:

Auntie Lynn

[LikaNui]

Good letter in today's Advertiser, including this excerpt from it:
Judge Joseph Cardoza based his ruling on the Superferry "being clearly a new technology and a new chapter in transportation in Hawai'i."
I don't understand. I can ship my car today, along with hundreds of other cars, to another island. I can fly today, to another island. Superferry is just another option for getting from one island to another.

I can walk in my backyard today, get Fiddle Wood (an invasive species) seeds stuck in my slippers, fly to Maui and spread the seeds.
If Superferry should not be in business because of the spread of invasive species, should any other mode of transportation be allowed to move people from island to island?

Look at our ocean waters. There are parasail boats, fishing boats, personal water craft, Coast Guard boats, Navy ships, rescue boats, etc., racing around. Some are able to go as fast as Superferry.
If Superferry should not be in business because of a possible whale collision, should any other fast boat be allowed in Hawaiian waters?

Is Superferry "clearly a new technology and a new chapter in transportation in Hawai'i?" No, it's not that new, it's just another boat that carries people and cars from island to island.

Points well made.

[woodman]

The above poste does not even bother to consider infrastructural development necessary to accommodate superferry operation.

This underlines my main opposition to such government sanctioned projects.

Someone (or someone"S") in the state government dropped the ball, and neglected to get appropriate input from off-island residents prior to ferry operation.

There should have been infrastructural development prior to Superferry operation.

...but that shouldn't stop forum-sanctioned Lika-troll from making continued objections.

Forum-sanctioned Lika-troll would be the first person raising objection to ANY review and oversight, like the UH softball stadium; even as his pals in the construction industry were building the bleachers to where the audience would not have adequate view of the field.

I just want to know how "I" can get a forum pass and have troll privileges like Lika-troll. (do I need to post links to Lika-troll flame-posts?)

BTW, this is NOT a subject that many other forum members are not already aware of.

::QUICK, someone ban this guy before all the other members can read this and review "Lika's" past posts::

[Leo Lakio]

Aw, c'mon, Woodman. Disagree with the poster, argue points with him, even "ignore" him if he bothers you that much - but there's no need to publicly call for banishment.

You've been here, what...almost three weeks? Spend a little more time wandering the block, getting to know the neighbors better. If you really have a problem with how the board's Admin is running things, let him know in private what you think. Trust me - he doesn't like being told how to police the place (made wise from personal experience here.)

And I'm trying (for some reason) to help you fit in here, okay? Try not to come back with the nasty snark level that you did last time (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=168049&postcount=108).

[woodman]

Leo L,

Please read more carefully.

I NEVER called for anyone being banned!

Aw, c'mon, Woodman. Disagree with the poster, argue points with him, even "ignore" him if he bothers you that much - but there's no need to publicly call for banishment.

WTF???
How many beers have you had?

If you’re referring to the following statement....
::QUICK, someone ban this guy before all the other members can read this and review "Lika's" past posts::

Rest assured that I’m OBVIOUSLY being sarcastic.
If anything, I was suggesting my OWN bannishment being discussed by senior membership of this forum.

http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/sarcasm.html

Or check brain power, here:

http://www.funeducation.com/products/iqtest/intro.asp?source=google

I think my post is a clear refection of senior membership (if not admin) shielding “preferred” members from objective scrutiny.

Other members already know about this, so it’s not like I’m revealing some well-kept secret.

...or is it just that you (or other preferred members) wish that I just shut-up and not discuss the matter?

We could, of course, open a thread with this as the main topic of discussion, but I think admin would be as likely to allow that as they would allow me to post copies of admin responses to my P/M's in open forum.

[infinitypro]

We could, of course, open a thread with this as the main topic of discussion, but I think admin would be as likely to allow that as they would allow me to post copies of admin responses to my P/M's in open forum.

Please stop. If you're unhappy, please go peacefully and with your dignity.

[LikaNui]

Forum-sanctioned Lika-troll would be the first person raising objection to ANY review and oversight, like the UH softball stadium; even as his pals in the construction industry were building the bleachers to where the audience would not have adequate view of the field. I had to laugh out loud at that one, as Woodman is 180 degrees off of the truth. I was one of those who screamed foul (pun intended) the loudest after the unforgivable screwup at the stadium. I mean, they didn't discover the viewing problem until two weeks before the new stadium was supposed to open. How the heck could that happen?!?
(For those who don't know, it turned out that most of the seats couldn't see home plate or the pitchers mound at all. Outrageous! It came down to either rebuilding the entire bleachers or raising the entire field several feet, which was the solution I believe they used.)
I don't remember how many millions of dollars were wasted on that design (a local architect, by the way) and construction. What a friggin' boondoggle.
Sorry to disappoint you, Woodman. :rolleyes:
And now, back to discussions of the SuperFerry. Intelligent comments are always welcome.
Immature childish petty ones only reflect poorly on their author. There might be a recent example or two around here somewhere.
:p

[woodman]

Please stop. If you're unhappy, please go peacefully and with your dignity.
I was never aware that I was without it, nevertheless, we are now off topic so if you have constructive input in regard to this please P/M me.

Can anyone tell me what assessments were done on Kauai road & transportation systems to accommodate superferry traffic?

Anything?

BTY the operative term is "accommodate".

[joshuatree]

Can anyone tell me what assessments were done on Kauai road & transportation systems to accommodate superferry traffic?

Anything?

BTY the operative term is "accommodate".

I don't believe there was any assessments but to counter your point, was there any assessments done on Kauai's road systems when Pasha Hawaii started up service? Or when YB started phasing in newer and way bigger barges that can carry up to 500 vehicles at a time?

[LikaNui]

Please stop. If you're unhappy, please go peacefully and with your dignity.

I was never aware that I was without it, nevertheless, we are now off topic so if you have constructive input in regard to this please P/M me.

There is clearly only one appropriate response, and if anyone is curious about the correct spelling, cut-and-paste this: BWAAAhahahahaha!!!

:)

[woodman]

I don't believe there was any assessments but to counter your point, was there any assessments done on Kauai's road systems when Pasha Hawaii started up service? Or when YB started phasing in newer and way bigger barges that can carry up to 500 vehicles at a time?

Thanks Josh.

I think that's very relevant, but it might also add fuel to the other side to say, "Ah-Ha!" ..and now, with the S/F you're going to compound the problems of Pasha.

BTW, what good is the ignore button if I can still read troll posts?

My ignore doesn't seem to work.

[LikaNui]

BTW, what good is the ignore button if I can still read troll posts? So you read the post at this link (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=170626&postcount=264) and have no comment? C'mon! I actually agreed with you about the baseball field! And I'm actually curious what you have to say about that.

[joshuatree]

I think that's very relevant, but it might also add fuel to the other side to say, "Ah-Ha!" ..and now, with the S/F you're going to compound the problems of Pasha.

This is why I perceive the whole anti-ferry argument as inconsistent and biased. The other companies don't have to face the same scrutiny and yet somehow, this ferry will bring doomsday.

[LikaNui]

One scary note in this article (http://honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071016/NEWS01/710160347) in today's Advertiser, talking about proposed legislation to let SuperFerry run during the EA and/or EIS process:

The state Legislature, however, would have the right to add conditions later if lawmakers were not satisfied.

Changing rules after the fact is the same nonsense that got us all into the mess in the first place.
:eek:

[joshuatree]

I saw that, I wish they had more details about what rules they are planning. This has dragged on far too long just like the go! trial which by the way, seems to have mysteriously disappeared, no news, nada. Gag order?

[GeckoGeek]

Well as if things weren't strange enough: YB gets a new barge (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071016/BUSINESS/710160326/1188).

"The Ho'omaka Hou, scheduled to begin service this month, is the largest that Young Brothers owns, at 340 feet in length, 90 feet in width and 20 feet in depth."

(oh, the HSF? 349' long, 78' beam)

"The first voyage of the Ho'omaka Hou will probably be to Nawiliwili, Kaua'i; it will then go into regular service to Kahului, Maui."

[LikaNui]

Well as if things weren't strange enough: YB gets a new barge (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071016/BUSINESS/710160326/1188). As they say in the commercials... "But wait. There's more!"
There was this story (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007710110345) in the Advertiser last Thursday (scroll down to the fourth item), and here's an excerpt:
Alaska Airlines celebrates its new service to Hawai'i tomorrow at Honolulu International Airport with performances by Alaska native dancers and Hawaiian dancers.
The airline will operate daily flights between Seattle-Tacoma International Airport and Honolulu. The airline also will offer nonstop service between Seattle and Lihu'e beginning Oct. 28. Service between Anchorage and Honolulu is scheduled to start Dec. 9.
And no mention of an EIS, or of any plans to halt invasive species, or...

:rolleyes:

[1stwahine]

Well as if things weren't strange enough:
"The Ho'omaka Hou, scheduled to begin service this month, is the largest that Young Brothers owns, at 340 feet in length, 90 feet in width and 20 feet in depth."(oh, the HSF? 349' long, 78' beam)


As they say in the commercials... "But wait. There's more!"
There was this story (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007710110345) in the Advertiser last Thursday (scroll down to the fourth item), and here's an excerpt:

And no mention of an EIS, or of any plans to halt invasive species, or...

I peeked on this thread early dis morn but got "off" fast cause I was SKED!:eek: NOT! Anyways, from da above POSTS, one can see how coocoos every ting is. Doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure things out!:rolleyes: Duh>>>>Hello? Somebody wake up and look at Big Picture!!!

Auwe!!!

We got some real Dummys in Office!:p

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Auntie Pupule

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/default.asp

Hawaii State House of Representatives
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/house/members/members.asp

Hawaii State Legislature Senate
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/senate/members/members.asp

[glossyp]

Here's a question. Does the fact that HSF is a non-union operation have something to do with the challenges they are facing? Discuss.

[1stwahine]

Here's a question. Does the fact that HSF is a non-union operation have something to do with the challenges they are facing? Discuss.

Try wait....I go call the Gov.'s office @ 586-0034 and go ask.:p

Just joking glossyp.

I going be serious.;)

Lynn

[oceanpacific]

Try wait....I go call the Gov.'s office @ 586-0034 and go ask.:p

Just joking glossyp.

I going be serious.;)

Lynn

Call Senator Colleen Hanabusa's office ..............

[1stwahine]

Here's a question. Does the fact that HSF is a non-union operation have something to do with the challenges they are facing? Discuss.

Call Senator Colleen Hanabusa's office ..............

Phone 808-586-7793

I called her office and asked "Nina."

I shua did.

She said "NO!"

Auntie Lynn

[tutusue]

I just received an email from a coworker with this link:
http://starbulletin.com/poll/
to unofficially vote for or against the HSF. Sorry if it's a repeat. I partially checked this thread and didn't find it.

[LikaNui]

A Breaking News item at this link (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Oct/16/br/br4206518973.html) says this:

State Sen. President Colleen Hanabusa today said that a majority in the Senate is willing to come back into special session to help save the Hawaii Superferry.
The Senate will confer with House leaders, who have already said there is consensus for a special session in their chamber. House Democrats are meeting in caucus tomorrow to consider the latest draft legislation.
Gov. Linda Lingle could call legislators back into session to allow the Superferry to resume service while the state conducts an environmental assessment on the project's impact on state harbors. I just received an email from a coworker with this link: http://starbulletin.com/poll/ to unofficially vote for or against the HSF. Thanks for that, Tutu. I don't know when they started the poll, but I see that 14,028 people have voted already and it's running 80% FOR the SuperFerry and only 20% against.

:)

[titilejomi]

..... I don't know when they started the poll, but I see that 14,028 people have voted already and it's running 80% FOR the SuperFerry and only 20% against.

:)

Lika you are slipping:cool:

fyi - The HSF solicited all members that signed up for email announcements from them to participate in this poll put out by SB today with a direct link to the poll.

P.S. I support the HSF;)

[craig foo]

Thanks for that, Tutu. I don't know when they started the poll, but I see that 14,028 people have voted already and it's running 80% FOR the SuperFerry and only 20% against.


What's the % on Oahu? What's the % on outer islands? An Enviromental Assessment process is a learning process and HSF Superferry was against it!
State of Hawaii citizens, especially Hawaii Island and Oahu are near as ignorant of HSF Superferry now as they were when they were first exposed to the US East Coast investment idea's plan for further Americanization of Hawaii.

A Breaking News item at this link (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Oct/16/br/br4206518973.html) says this:

Obviously the Hawaii Superferry scheme has played out essentially as planned: HSF Superferry will get what It wants! The bottom line is the same and, as usual for US corporations in Hawaii, Hawaii's indigenous culture, Hawaii and US taxpayers will essentially pay for all the costs of "the inconvenience" to the imposition of US HSF Superferry plans.

Here's a question. Does the fact that HSF is a non-union operation have something to do with the challenges they are facing? Discuss.
It would be far more worrisome for Hawaii outer islands were Superferry union-backed. The fact that it is not should be a union issue but it is not a union issue because "the union" no doubt sees the whole thing a future evangelical victim of its crappola capitalist addiction.

I feel it's corrupting to be in the gov't and having another job on the side.

So who is paying for the time that one of "our" 'elected representatives' spend at 'information sessions' with corporatist lobbyist? The lobbyist pays or the taxpayer pays for "the representative's" time ?
"Best example would be to serve in the Senate and to be in the real estate business. That would be outright conflict of interest on any land development issues."
Seriously? Let's contact the official state and/or IRS/licensing/permitting agency to tap their computers to tell us just who federal/state approved/tolerated (private -controlled) licensing-agency resides in the Hawaii State 'elected'-legislature.Or to bring the topic back on track, what if someone worked on the board for HSF and is serving in the Senate? [/quote]

[titilejomi]

.......
Or to bring the topic back on track, what if someone worked on the board for HSF and is serving in the Senate?

It's well known "now" that Speaker Calvin Say's Son is/was working for the HSF as an accountant and just got set aside *layed off* like other workers.

Thus, Say will have to admit to the conflict of interest due to his sons employment with HSF.:o

[infinitypro]

Had a wonderful weekend with my family from Maui, and they report that majority of their friends, associates, the communities are disappointed in the current situation with the Superferry.

They mentioned that the Farmer's were disappointed because the Superferry would have provided transportation of their refrigerated trucks, something that YB does not offer, and when they did it wasn't economical for the small farming businesses.

I also had the opportunity to talk with friends from Kauai whom were also disappointed as they had wanted to bring their personal vehicles to Oahu on shopping vacations, etc. They are in support of an EIS, but felt that the Superferry should operate while the EIS is being conducted.

Those that they've encountered on both islands that oppose the Superferry altogether are not indigenous to the island or State of Hawaii.

The poll that Tutusue listed above, as well as the one posted earlier from the SB shows an overwhelming support of the Superferry.

In the meantime, increased direct flights are scheduled without opposition?

It's well known "now" that Speaker Calvin Say's Son is/was working for the HSF as an accountant and just got set aside like other workers.

Thus, Say will have to admit to the conflict of interest due to his sons employment with HSF.:o

Exactly what conflict does he have to admit? Did I miss that he stated that in lieu of his support for the Superferry his son would get an entry level job? I read that he has asked the decision of the House to determine his conflict of interest prior to any decisions being made.

[Konaguy]

It would be far more worrisome for Hawaii outer islands were Superferry union-backed. The fact that it is not should be a union issue but it is not a union issue because "the union" no doubt sees the whole thing a future evangelical victim of its crappola capitalist addiction.

Craig, serious question here, do you think socialism or communism would be any better ?

[craig foo]

" ... had the opportunity to talk with friends from Kauai whom were also disappointed as they had wanted to bring their personal vehicles to Oahu on shopping vacations, etc."

So all of this crap has to do with Kauai 'residents' addiction to shopping vacations of Kauai elitedom's Lexuses, Mercedeses, Lincolneses, and Such and their Kauai-tax license plate registration compensating for Oahu-tax licenses?

"They are in support of an EIS, but felt that the Superferry should operate while the EIS is being conducted."

An EA or an EIS? I cannot imagine any truly knowledgable HSF Special-session-ferry Supporter=HSF Superferries Supporter being welcomingly receptive to an EIS process. It'll take at least a generation or two to complete it, and by then there'll be even less monk seals being alive to come to Waikiki, so why not just continue the genocide of non-human mammals and call it "progress" or somehow twist it to mean "progressive", but anyhow call it "uninterrupted profit"?

[infinitypro]

" ... had the opportunity to talk with friends from Kauai whom were also* disappointed as they had wanted to bring their personal vehicles to Oahu on shopping vacations, etc."

So all of this crap has to do with Kauai 'residents' addiction to shopping vacations of Kauai elitedom's Lexuses, Mercedeses, Lincolneses, and Such and their Kauai-tax license plate registration compensating for Oahu-tax licenses?

They are in support of an EIS, but felt that the Superferry should operate while the EIS is being co "


nducted.



They are in support of an EIS, but felt that the Superferry should operate while the EIS is being conducted.

Craig,

Please LEARN HOW TO QUOTE it's part of the FAQ.

I knew you'd be the first to skew my innocent conversation shared in this forum in opposition of your views. There are residents of Hawaii, living on Kauai in support of the Superferry for their own reasons whether you like it or not.

Acceptance allows for a free soul.

[admin]

Please use the multi-quote function and edit your posts to add to your thoughts if you're still within the edit window. Do not post multiple consecutive messages to respond to a series of comments, in other words. Combine them.

I frequently merge posts for y'all, but the end result isn't always ideal and heaven knows something could get lost in the shuffle. If you find new messages keep turning up while you were busy responding to an older one, that might be a good sign to take a break from the thread.

[craig foo]

Craig, serious question here, do you think socialism or communism would be any better ?

Communist theory is best. No ifs, ands, or buts about it! Is that clear enough?

[joshuatree]

Communist theory is best. No ifs, ands, or buts about it! Is that clear enough?

But that's still theory, don't think it fared too well in reality.

[anapuni808]

This isn't the first time an inter-island boat service has been in use - but that other one couldn't carry cars, only people. But it sure was fun, travelling by water instead of flying.

[LikaNui]

I don't know when they started the poll, but I see that 14,028 people have voted already and it's running 80% FOR the SuperFerry and only 20% against. I wrote that six hours ago, and just now checked the poll results again. Verrrrry interesting.
The disclaimer on that page says:
One vote per person, please. Multiple votes will be deleted. Note: Vote tallies may change during the week, as attempts to manipulate the voting are discovered and deleted.
And that clearly happened. Now, six hours after the figures I quoted above, the poll shows that 11,455 have voted... so there were about 2,500 multiple votes from people trying to skew the results.
But even more interesting is that the corrected tally after removing the fraudulent votes is now 85% FOR the SuperFerry (up from 80% earlier) and 15% against it (down from 20% earlier).
Clearly the holier-than-thou anti-ferry group tried to scam the poll.
The numbers don't lie.
Somehow, this behavior on the part of the anti's doesn't surprise me.
:rolleyes:

[tutusue]

[...]Clearly the holier-than-thou anti-ferry group tried to scam the poll.[...]
<untechie tutu hat on> Once I voted the poll doesn't allow me to vote again. How does one stuff the cyber-ballot-box, so to speak? :confused:

[craig foo]

" Communist theory is best. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. "

But that's still theory, don't think it fared too well in reality. Another topical thread may be in order, but not exactly being of the creative nature I'll continue here:

In reality, thus far, it has yet to appear in a socio-economic system for which it was predicted/prophesied/expected-to-be-manifested.

[TuNnL]

<untechie tutu hat on> Once I voted the poll doesn't allow me to vote again. How does one stuff the cyber-ballot-box, so to speak? :confused:Hmmm... should I or shouldn’t I tell you? *cackles fiendishly* I believe if you clear your browser’s cookies and get a different IP address assigned to you by your ISP, you should be able to register another vote. That’s just in theory, though. Clearly the Honolulu Star-Bulletin detected what they are doing and are taking corrective measures. ;)

[Keanu]

As they say in the commercials... "But wait. There's more!"
There was this story (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007710110345) in the Advertiser last Thursday (scroll down to the fourth item), and here's an excerpt:

And no mention of an EIS, or of any plans to halt invasive species, or...

:rolleyes:

Did the state use state funds to make improvements at the Honolulu International Airport or the Lihue Airport for the primary benefit of Alaska Airlines?

A lot of you are trying to make an argument that cannot be made, not with a straight face anyway.

[LikaNui]

<untechie tutu hat on> Once I voted the poll doesn't allow me to vote again. How does one stuff the cyber-ballot-box, so to speak? :confused: The Star-Bulletin didn't check each vote as they came in, but instead they apparently ran a check later, comparing ISP's for each vote and catching the anti-SuperFerry scammers.
Since roughly 20% of the early votes were scams, I believe the SB has increased the frequency of its checks.

[Miulang]

The key to Cardoza's ruling was that HSF was a "new technology" for Hawai'i by virtue of the fact that it carries both cars and passengers (none of the other modes of transportation in Hawai'i does that) even though car ferries have existed elsewhere for a long time. The reason why Alaska airlines didn't have to do an EA/EIS is because no additional facilities were required for them to bring their planes to Hawai'i and because airplanes as a mode of transportation existed previously.

Now I have a serious question for all the people who want HSF to run without an EA/EIS. Although I have serious doubts that this will happen ultimately (too many political futures at stake here), but assuming HSF is given the green light to run while an EIS is conducted over a couple of years: how many of you are willing to commit to making at least one round trip a month on HSF (your island of choice)? Because that's what it's going to take to keep HSF in Hawai'i. You can't just ride it once and expect that it's going to be here forever. After the initial curiosity about a trip wears off, will many of you venture aboard the decks of the Alakai in the middle of winter?:confused: There have been some calculations made on the basis of what HSF has said it needs for load factors that show that it will still be running in the red (sound like another mode of transportation?) to the tune of millions of dollars. And we all know that the HSF investors are not an eleemosynary organization that is running for the good of the people. Or perhaps you need to start saving some of your tax money because it may just come down to if you want to keep it, you might have to end up subsidizing it in perpetuity, like you do The Bus.

Miulang

[infinitypro]

The key to Cardoza's ruling was that HSF was a "new technology" for Hawai'i by virtue of the fact that it carries both cars and passengers (none of the other modes of transportation in Hawai'i does that) even though car ferries have existed elsewhere for a long time. The reason why Alaska airlines didn't have to do an EA/EIS is because no additional facilities were required for them to bring their planes to Hawai'i and because airplanes as a mode of transportation existed previously.

Now I have a serious question for all the people who want HSF to run without an EA/EIS. Although I have serious doubts that this will happen ultimately (too many political futures at stake here), but assuming HSF is given the green light to run while an EIS is conducted over a couple of years: how many of you are willing to commit to making at least one round trip a month on HSF (your island of choice)? Because that's what it's going to take to keep HSF in Hawai'i. You can't just ride it once and expect that it's going to be here forever. After the initial curiosity about a trip wears off, will many of you venture aboard the decks of the Alakai in the middle of winter?:confused: There have been some calculations made on the basis of what HSF has said it needs for load factors that show that it will still be running in the red (sound like another mode of transportation?) to the tune of millions of dollars. And we all know that the HSF investors are not an eleemosynary organization that is running for the good of the people.

Miulang

You asked and sorta answered your own question to sway?

Regardless, YES I would have paid for a RT Superferry plus vehicle once per month at a minimum .

[joshuatree]

Now I have a serious question .....

Does it really matter how many times people would ride the boat? Most pro-ferry folks are simply wishing for the boat to be given a chance. From there, it's all about the market economy. If they can't get themselves out of the red, then it's the same as every business that closes down. No one is asking to subsidize them, it's not The Bus which is public transportation.

The key to Cardoza's ruling was that HSF was a "new technology"...

As to new technology, how is it new? We are moving goods between the same islands, we are moving people between the same islands, we have other vessels out there with such speeds (speedboats and jet skis). Just because you put the three together does not equate to new technology. Are people that thrown off just because it does all three items at once?

[Miulang]

Does it really matter how many times people would ride the boat? Most pro-ferry folks are simply wishing for the boat to be given a chance. From there, it's all about the market economy. If they can't get themselves out of the red, then it's the same as every business that closes down. No one is asking to subsidize them, it's not The Bus which is public transportation.
If people want the service badly enough...i.e. it becomes a necessity, they will patronize it often enough to make it financially viable; otherwise, why go through the expense of calling the special session? Why make all the exceptions to the laws? And what happens if the boat goes under while the EIS is being completed? Wouldn't that make the state look even more stupid?



As to new technology, how is it new? We are moving goods between the same islands, we are moving people between the same islands, we have other vessels out there with such speeds (speedboats and jet skis). Just because you put the three together does not equate to new technology. Are people that thrown off just because it does all three items at once?
You answered your own question, Joshua. Yes, barges move cargo, small passenger boats go at high speeds. Jetskis are not allowed in the NMS during whale season. None of the other high speed boats are as large as HSF. Speed + volume kills. A power boat crashing into a whale will likely injure it but not kill it (more likely it will kill the people in the boat).Whale watching boats may bump into whales periodically. But because it's the whales they are looking for and because federal rules require being 100 yds away from the whales, they generally will idle while the whales are nearby; the HSF will not. Its intention is not to watch whales. I do think there should also be a limit to the number of whale watching boats that are licensed too.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

If people want the service badly enough...i.e. it becomes a necessity, they will patronize it often enough to make it financially viable; otherwise, why go through the expense of calling the special session? Why make all the exceptions to the laws? And what happens if the boat goes under while the EIS is being completed? Wouldn't that make the state look even more stupid?

If there is demand, the service will thrive. So again, why worry as in your previous post about how often people will use the ferry? The special session isn't to subsidize the ferry, it's to correct the fumbles made by the state in vouching to the ferry it can proceed without an EA/EIS and then backtracking. The implications go beyond this boat because the business community will be evaluating just how reliable is the state's word. HSF did not drop the ball on this one. You can think how evil their intentions may be but at the end of the day, they did everything required by the state. As for more stupid, so ordering an EA while HSF packs up isn't stupid looking? I think that's even worse. If the ferry can't make money on its own accord, it's not the state's fault. But right now, it definitely is the state's fault.




You answered your own question, Joshua. Yes, barges move cargo, small passenger boats go at high speeds. Jetskis are not allowed in the NMS during whale season. None of the other high speed boats are as large as HSF. Speed + volume kills. A power boat crashing into a whale will likely injure it but not kill it (more likely it will kill the people in the boat).Whale watching boats may bump into whales periodically. But because it's the whales they are looking for and because federal rules require being 100 yds away from the whales, they generally will idle while the whales are nearby; the HSF will not. Its intention is not to watch whales. I do think there should also be a limit to the number of whale watching boats that are licensed too.

Indeed I answered my own question, which is there is no new technology involved here. You sure sound very confident that a power boat crashing into a whale won't kill it, nevermind the fact that speed boats have propellers thrashing in the water in addition to the speed. I fail to see how it's OK for whale watching boats to bump into whales periodically. You seem to have forgotten HSF's policy which is to change course and steer away if a whale is spotted, not remain idle.

[Miulang]

Indeed I answered my own question, which is there is no new technology involved here. You sure sound very confident that a power boat crashing into a whale won't kill it, nevermind the fact that speed boats have propellers thrashing in the water in addition to the speed. I fail to see how it's OK for whale watching boats to bump into whales periodically. You seem to have forgotten HSF's policy which is to change course and steer away if a whale is spotted, not remain idle.

I like the fact that the ship's skipper and HSF management are so confident that their spotters will be able (in the dark) to see a breaching whale at 100 or 200 yds. I like the fact that the skippers and HSF management are so confident the boat can "turn on a dime" to avoid the whales. Now, have the passengers on the ferry thought about what it would be like to be standing up when this "whale avoidance" occurred? Are there belts on the seats to ensure that passengers won't get hurt or thrown to the floor when such a maneuver occurs? Gee, wouldn't HSF be liable for some pretty massive injury lawsuits if this happened? So wouldn't it be better not to avoid the whales because whales can't sue as opposed to hurting passengers, who can? When you get your tickets, make sure you read the "fine print" to see if it doesn't say something like "purchaser of this ticket holds HSF not responsible for any injury or expense incurred while the boat is in progress."

I don't like the fact that they didn't bother to file for an incidental take permit from the feds in case they did hit a whale. They were either being really cocky about their ability, or they are counting on no one telling the feds if they do strike a whale. To hit a whale without one of these permits racks up a really nice fine.

When whale boats bump into whales, the majority of the time it's the WHALES bumping into the boats (curiosity) while they are idling and not the boats hitting the whales, but the whale nudges have to be reported too. And if boats going less way less than 20 kts can hit whales, what exponential quantity do you want to give to a boat going faster than 20 kts?

Miulang

P.S. If a powerboat going full speed and an adult humpback whale ever collided, I'd bet the whale would survive better than the idiots in the powerboat would.

[joshuatree]

Seems like we're falling back on the sky is falling reasoning again. Spotting in the dark is done with night vision gear. Can you please tell me what other marine business plying these waters currently has any whale spotting? Maybe HSF's whale avoidance policy isn't satisfactory for you but I find it very ironic that no other company plying these waters have any whale policy as complete as HSF's yet you don't go prompting for an immediate stop to their business?

Now is that a fact or assumption that most times it's the whales bumping the boats? Why do you not call for an end to these whale watching tours? It's a fact that there have been whale strike incidents with them. With the ferry, it's been nothing but hypothesis at this point. And why is there this assumption that whales are dumb creatures? When you have something like the ferry shooting streams of water as propulsion, it generates a lot of noise. Whales will hear that far out. The ferry can turn on a dime, it doesn't even need tugs to park in the harbor.

[Konaguy]

Communist theory is best. No ifs, ands, or buts about it! Is that clear enough?

Well at least I know where your coming from. It also shows your true colors loud and clear.In a way you despise the government, but on the flip side you'd be perfectly happy if the government took care of all your needs. The latter is communism, atleast to me.

For me, I would be happy if government stayed out my life as much as possible.

[Konaguy]

Back on topic, someone tipped me on this. Back in 2004, both Sens. Hooser and Baker were among the senators that introduced a resolution supporting
the fast tracking of the Hawaii Superferry. I find this very troubling, as both of these senators have been vocal opponents of HSF as of late.

http://thekonablog.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/sens-baker-hooser-introduced-a-bill-supporting-the-fasttracking-of-hawaii-superferry-in-2004/

[Miulang]

Seems like we're falling back on the sky is falling reasoning again. Spotting in the dark is done with night vision gear. Can you please tell me what other marine business plying these waters currently has any whale spotting? Maybe HSF's whale avoidance policy isn't satisfactory for you but I find it very ironic that no other company plying these waters have any whale policy as complete as HSF's yet you don't go prompting for an immediate stop to their business?
The Feds who are the ones who created the rules which govern NMS said what HSF has done is admirable, but there is still more that it can do. No other marine service travels as fast as HSF will, day or night. When the sonar that was hyped a selling point of HSF was found not to be feasible and the use of spotters with night visor binoculars was proposed, did anyone stop to consider how hard it was for those individuals to keep their eyes constantly trained on the ocean looking for spouts? 3 hours of staring at open ocean with no breaks is an awfully long time. The whales don't have a restricted route or path they follow; the entire ocean is their highway.

I haven't heard yet of a YB barge or Matson boat striking a whale (haven't heard of any cruise liners doing it either). They present other problems, like invasive species spreading (both YB and Matson) and illegal dumping of hazardous waste (the cruise ships). So maybe there should just be a statewide rule to force YB, Matson and the cruise liners to also have spotters; I would have no objection to that.

Now is that a fact or assumption that most times it's the whales bumping the boats? Why do you not call for an end to these whale watching tours? It's a fact that there have been whale strike incidents with them. With the ferry, it's been nothing but hypothesis at this point. And why is there this assumption that whales are dumb creatures? When you have something like the ferry shooting streams of water as propulsion, it generates a lot of noise. Whales will hear that far out. The ferry can turn on a dime, it doesn't even need tugs to park in the harbor. Greg Kaufman gave testimony at the hearings that whale nudgings are counted as "strikes". It's the "turning on a dime" part that should worry ferry passengers. What happens if a whale should suddenly surface closer in than 100 yds without any warning? what would the skipper do? Turn on a dime? At what speed? It's easier to control a car going into a corner by accelerating than putting on one's brakes, so if the ferry was making an evasive move at full speed, would that mean that there would be some amount of inertia that would impact passengers, particularly the ones who are standing at the time? You see this too in an airplane, when you hit air pockets and you aren't belted into your seat. Will HSF have a special signal made known to passengers in advance so they can prepare themselves (i.e., sit down and hold on) so they don't injure themselves?

Did you not see the part I wrote about limiting the number of whale boats that are allowed in business? You can't stop it completely because to do so would remove one of the largest sources of income from tourists visiting Maui in the wintertime. And I thought everybody wanted the tourists to appreciate Hawai'i for its natural beauty and are looking for new ways to boost the economy? Ecotourism (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071017/OPINION01/710170378/1104) and agritourism are two ways the Neighbor Islands can contribute.

And I really hope HSF does follow the fed's "suggestion" that they file for an incidental take permit. That should be like another form of insurance for HSF. Why don't they want to protect themselves?

Miulang

[joshuatree]

I haven't heard yet of a YB barge or Matson boat striking a whale (haven't heard of any cruise liners doing it either).

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/27402/newsDate/29-Sep-2004/story.htm

http://www.cruisebruise.com/Celebrity_summit_dead_whale_on_bow_august_19_2006. html

http://www.pacificenvironment.org/article.php?id=2224


Greg Kaufman gave testimony at the hearings that whale nudgings are counted as "strikes". It's the "turning on a dime" part that should worry ferry passengers. What happens if a whale should suddenly surface closer in than 100 yds without any warning? what would the skipper do? Turn on a dime? At what speed? It's easier to control a car going into a corner by accelerating than putting on one's brakes, so if the ferry was making an evasive move at full speed, would that mean that there would be some amount of inertia that would impact passengers, particularly the ones who are standing at the time? You see this too in an airplane, when you hit air pockets and you aren't belted into your seat. Will HSF have a special signal made known to passengers in advance so they can prepare themselves (i.e., sit down and hold on) so they don't injure themselves?

Did you not see the part I wrote about limiting the number of whale boats that are allowed in business? You can't stop it completely because to do so would remove one of the largest sources of income from tourists visiting Maui in the wintertime. And I thought everybody wanted the tourists to appreciate Hawai'i for its natural beauty and are looking for new ways to boost the economy? Ecotourism (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071017/OPINION01/710170378/1104) and agritourism are two ways the Neighbor Islands can contribute.


What happens if a plane experiences decompression? What happens when you are driving through an intersection and an old granny jumps out and if you serve, you hit the kids playing jacks on the sidewalk? Again, you're presenting scenarios that really don't have a perfect solution. Can we move past the sky is falling arguments?

Oh yes you can, you can stop all those whale watching boats if you were serious about the whale issue. Besides, why the concern for income? I thought it was about the aina, living off the land, and all that fun stuff. :rolleyes:

[Miulang]

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/27402/newsDate/29-Sep-2004/story.htm

http://www.cruisebruise.com/Celebrity_summit_dead_whale_on_bow_august_19_2006. html

http://www.pacificenvironment.org/article.php?id=2224





What happens if a plane experiences decompression? What happens when you are driving through an intersection and an old granny jumps out and if you serve, you hit the kids playing jacks on the sidewalk? Again, you're presenting scenarios that really don't have a perfect solution. Can we move past the sky is falling arguments?
When a plane experiences sudden decompression, breathing masks drop from the ceiling. When you're driving through an intersection and granny jumps in front of your car, you either have quick enough reflexes that you can swerve to avoid her (and probably hurt yourself by crashing into another car or something else) or you hit granny. I don't know about serving because I don't know any kids who play jacks.:D

It's not sky falling arguments; it's called "prudence". Why else would they give you that preflight speech that everybody ignores?:)

So tell me why even after the feds "suggested" that HSF take out an incidental take permit, that they declined to do so, and yet just recently, Garibaldi, when questioned about it, said that the option was still open? Why didn't he just go do it?

Miulang

[LikaNui]

What happens if a whale should suddenly surface closer in than 100 yds without any warning? Let's say SuperFerry is going 35mph, or 184,800 feet per hour, or 3,080 feet per minute. If the whale is 100 yards (300 feet) away, the boat will be past the whale in six seconds. No possible way it's going to hit the whale! :rolleyes:
Further, whales have extremely sensitive hearing and turn away from loud noises. When they hear the SuperFerry coming, the whales will turn 180 degrees away from it.
(Try reading the research book "Hearing By Whales & Dolphins" (http://books.google.com/books?id=qCK4gLHYi2MC&dq=%22whales+hearing%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=JLhzhvK8Vt&sig=Y8ur-UAeB58wVCdtkvi0lRtaCWk) for more about their auditory capabilities.)
Did SeaFlite ever hit a whale in their years of high-speed operation here? NO.
Yet with all of the facts above, somehow I have the feeling the anti-HSF folks will continue to rant.
And the rest of us will shake our heads at their pathetic attempts.
:rolleyes:

[Miulang]

Back on topic, someone tipped me on this. Back in 2004, both Sens. Hooser and Baker were among the senators that introduced a resolution supporting
the fast tracking of the Hawaii Superferry. I find this very troubling, as both of these senators have been vocal opponents of HSF as of late.

http://thekonablog.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/sens-baker-hooser-introduced-a-bill-supporting-the-fasttracking-of-hawaii-superferry-in-2004/
I believe that's called "changing one's mind in light of new facts that surface.":D

Miulang

[Konaguy]

I believe that's called "changing one's mind in light of new facts that surface.":D


I think both senators are hypocrites, in my opinion. The problems with HSF were evident as early as 2004. So it's unconscionable that these senators
supported this resolution. I'll call it like I see it.

[Miulang]

I think both senators are hypocrites, in my opinion. The problems with HSF were evident as early as 2004. So it's unconscionable that these senators
supported this resolution. I'll call it like I see it.
And you would then call those Legislators who were against HSF at the beginning and who are now for HSF starting, hypocrites too, I hope?;)

Interesting "stuff" from Ian Lind's blog (http://ilind.net/2007/10/17/wednesday-5/)today and Doug of Poinography (http://poinography.com/index.php?p=4996)'s blog and Larry Geller's "Disappeared News (http://disappearednews.com/)" blog.

Miulang

[Konaguy]

And you would then call those Legislators who were against HSF at the beginning and who are now for HSF starting, hypocrites too, I hope?;)


I'm not aware of any legislators who have done that. Care to cite some examples ?

[joshuatree]

When a plane experiences sudden decompression, breathing masks drop from the ceiling. When you're driving through an intersection and granny jumps in front of your car, you either have quick enough reflexes that you can swerve to avoid her (and probably hurt yourself by crashing into another car or something else) or you hit granny. I don't know about serving because I don't know any kids who play jacks.:D

It's not sky falling arguments; it's called "prudence". Why else would they give you that preflight speech that everybody ignores?:)

So tell me why even after the feds "suggested" that HSF take out an incidental take permit, that they declined to do so, and yet just recently, Garibaldi, when questioned about it, said that the option was still open? Why didn't he just go do it?

Miulang

And if the ferry spots a whale, it doesn't need to slow down but change course, veering far left or right, people will just feel a slight tug much like when you're on a bus making a turn due to it's double hull stability.

Because it's suggested vs mandated. How many of the other maritime operators in the water have the incidental take permit?

[cynsaligia]

If people want the service badly enough...i.e. it becomes a necessity, they will patronize it often enough to make it financially viable; otherwise, why go through the expense of calling the special session? Why make all the exceptions to the laws? And what happens if the boat goes under while the EIS is being completed? Wouldn't that make the state look even more stupid?


correct me if i am wrong, and maybe there aren't enough similarities bcs HSF is a service...but haven't there been new businesses that have started with some sort of help from the state, either by subsidy or tax relief, that either have failed or are not so invested in hawaii? for example, tech businesses (what was the name of that cgi movie where ming-na provided the main character's voice?), the film industry? didn't the company that did the movie i described pack up and leave because even tho hawaii is a great location, being between the east and the west, the cost of doing business is overbearing? and while it's great that hollywood likes to film here, it's not like they provide a lot of jobs with permanence, either. my understanding is that the film industry gets a tax break when they come to hawaii--they don't have to pay excise.

if i'm right, then this special session for HSF is small potatoes, in my opinion.

[Miulang]

And if the ferry spots a whale, it doesn't need to slow down but change course, veering far left or right, people will just feel a slight tug much like when you're on a bus making a turn due to it's double hull stability.

Because it's suggested vs mandated. How many of the other maritime operators in the water have the incidental take permit?
There are no commercial enterprises now in Hawai'i that have a Title X permit (http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-56.pdf). Boats that are caught harassing or hurting whales are assessed hefty fines (from $20k to $100k per incident).

However, in light of the fact that HSF has already run into so many problems already, you'd think they would want to go over and above what they've already done in order to appear like they want to be cooperative and set an example. But wait. There's a good reason why they didn't bother to file for a Title X permit: they would have had to comply with those darned NEPA rules again. (See the part of the form titled "Application for a Permit Under the Endangered Species Act"). Darned all that paperwork just to do business!;)

This particular section of the Wildlife and Fisheries Act (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=a077b55c11fa1c71c31d985608a9bd5d&rgn=div8&view=text&node=50:7.0.1.3.6.0.13.3&idno=50)is particularly interesting.

Miulang

[Miulang]

correct me if i am wrong, and maybe there aren't enough similarities bcs HSF is a service...but haven't there been new businesses that have started with some sort of help from the state, either by subsidy or tax relief, that either have failed or are not so invested in hawaii? for example, tech businesses (what was the name of that cgi movie where ming-na provided the main character's voice?), the film industry? didn't the company that did the movie i described pack up and leave because even tho hawaii is a great location, being between the east and the west, the cost of doing business is overbearing? and while it's great that hollywood likes to film here, it's not like they provide a lot of jobs with permanence, either. my understanding is that the film industry gets a tax break when they come to hawaii--they don't have to pay excise.

if i'm right, then this special session for HSF is small potatoes, in my opinion.
Sure they could have, but under which category from the HBEDT (http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/programs/) would they qualify? Stategic Industries, Science and Technolgies (http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/main/about/2006-annual/yap-sid-science-technology.pdf)?

HBEDT claims that it uses a "logic model" developed by the Kellogg Foundation (http://www.wkkf.org/Pubs/Tools/Evaluation/Pub3669.pdf)(a very very large philanthropic organization) to determine its funding priorities. It too, requires as an end product, an assessment.

Miulang

[cynsaligia]

Sure they could have, but under which category from the HBEDT (http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/programs/) would they qualify? Stategic Industries, Science and Technolgies (http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/main/about/2006-annual/yap-sid-science-technology.pdf)?

HBEDT claims that it uses a "logic model" developed by the Kellogg Foundation (http://www.wkkf.org/Pubs/Tools/Evaluation/Pub3669.pdf)(a very very large philanthropic organization) to determine its funding priorities. It too, requires as an end product, an assessment.

Miulang

i was nowhere near saying that HSF should have applied for subsidies or tax breaks. i was pointing out that other businesses have gotten subsidies/tax breaks and not all of them have been successful or well-received or have stayed with any permanence in hawaii and that, in contrast, the special session is at low cost/loss to hawaii's taxpayers.

[Miulang]

i was nowhere near saying that HSF should have applied for subsidies or tax breaks. i was pointing out that other businesses have gotten subsidies/tax breaks and not all of them have been successful or well-received or have stayed with any permanence in hawaii and that, in contrast, the special session is at low cost/loss to hawaii's taxpayers.
Moneywise, maybe, but political capital-wise, maybe notso. How many souls will have to be signed over?

Miulang

[tutusue]

[...](what was the name of that cgi movie where ming-na provided the main character's voice?), the film industry? didn't the company that did the movie i described pack up and leave because even tho hawaii is a great location, being between the east and the west, the cost of doing business is overbearing? and while it's great that hollywood likes to film here, it's not like they provide a lot of jobs with permanence, either. my understanding is that the film industry gets a tax break when they come to hawaii--they don't have to pay excise.[...]
Are you thinking of "Final Fantasy"?

For anyone truly interested in the film industry's tax credits there's a seminar comin' up. Check it out HERE (http://www.hawaiifilmblog.com/)! It involves more than just the GET. The top 3 entries are very interesting.

The film industry, for the most part, is helter skelter no matter where it is. The word "permanence" doesn't exist. Crew, who are independent contractors, again for the most part, go from job to job. In Hawaii, those jobs come from the mainland, Europe, Asia, you name it. Our bread and butter jobs are local.

To bring this back on topic...the HSF would be a godsend for transporting film industry related vehicles and equipment interisland.

[dick]

To bring this back on topic...the HSF would be a godsend for transporting film industry related vehicles and equipment interisland.

Yes it would be.

And it would be for many other business-related uses. Everything from construction to music. A lot of things are simply unfeasable right now with only airlines and some silly barge that takes a week to get anything anywhere.

Here's a good example: My band wants to play some gigs on Maui. As it stands, if we wanted to take all of our equpiment there, we have two options -- an airline, which would charge us retarded fees (amps are very heavy) and we'd have to get road cases for everything... or rent crappy stuff on Maui and pass that on to the venue. Or, we could ship everything via barge which would mean not having our stuff for a week while it waits on a dock somewhere. Begging to get ripped off or wrecked.

Then along comes the ferry...

We could stuff it all in a truck, send it on the ferry with a band member (while the others fly cheaper, yeah it's true) and he meets us on Maui and we all have our own equipment that same day, ready to go.

Oh wait, silly me, I forgot... I have coqui frogs in my amp. And the truck we bring with us has dirt on it. And we killed a whale on the way over. And we added one more car to traffic....

[glossyp]

Moneywise, maybe, but political capital-wise, maybe notso. How many souls will have to be signed over?

Miulang
My heart just bleeds to think of the poor politicians sullying their pure souls to do what a majority of taxpayers and voters want them to do...yeah, that's a sell out.

[oceanpacific]

Yes it would be.

And it would be for many other business-related uses. Everything from construction to music. A lot of things are simply unfeasable right now with only airlines and some silly barge that takes a week to get anything anywhere.

Here's a good example: My band wants to play some gigs on Maui. As it stands, if we wanted to take all of our equpiment there, we have two options -- an airline, which would charge us retarded fees (amps are very heavy) and we'd have to get road cases for everything... or rent crappy stuff on Maui and pass that on to the venue. Or, we could ship everything via barge which would mean not having our stuff for a week while it waits on a dock somewhere. Begging to get ripped off or wrecked.

Then along comes the ferry...

We could stuff it all in a truck, send it on the ferry with a band member (while the others fly cheaper, yeah it's true) and he meets us on Maui and we all have our own equipment that same day, ready to go.

Oh wait, silly me, I forgot... I have coqui frogs in my amp. And the truck we bring with us has dirt on it. And we killed a whale on the way over. And we added one more car to traffic....

Last month, an off-island band flew over to play in a fund-raising concert. The airlines charged $90 ONE-WAY for the keyboard - that's more than the passenger's ticket! :eek:

I can see the day when the cheaper air fares will no longer be around.

[LikaNui]

From this article (http://honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071018/NEWS01/710180357/1001) in today's Advertiser, I find this to be exceptionally stupid fascinating bizarre interesting:
Any new operating agreement between the state and Hawaii Superferry should contain an "explicit and comprehensive indemnity clause" to shield the state from any liability caused by court actions that prevented the ferry from operating for the past two months, according to the latest draft of legislation to help the Superferry.
The threat of possible lawsuits by Superferry executives has been a subtext in the debate over the project's future. The draft, which is being reviewed by the state Attorney General's office, attempts to insulate the state from lawsuits while allowing Superferry to resume service while a full environmental impact statement is conducted.
State Rep. Marcus Oshiro, D-39th (Wahiawa), the chairman of the House Finance Committee, said lawmakers are trying to ensure the bill covers "all past, present and future liabilities for the state. That's a very, very important provision of this bill," he said.
:eek:

[TuNnL]

From this article (http://honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071018/NEWS01/710180357/1001) in today's Advertiser, I find this to be exceptionally stupid fascinating bizarre interesting:

:eek:Yes, I’m glad the state is being akamai and ensuring taxpayers don’t end up paying for the Attorney General Mark Bennett and the DOT’s serious lapse in judgement. The state auditor’s investigation into the Lingle Administration’s deal can’t come soon enough.:o

[craig foo]

Last weekend on Oahu for a visit, I watched a mongoose circus for the better part of two early mornings in a row. Walking through a public park my attention was drawn to some movement under a parked vehicle. I thought perhaps it was a rat or perhaps a cat but very shortly afterward a pair of mongoose dropped themselves simultaneously from the vehicle's (a State van) undercarriage and ran playfully across the parking lot into some underbrush only to emerge from the brush and run, hugging the ground as they do, back toward the van. Just before the pair reached the van another mongoose dropped down from under a vehicle parked next to the van, and then another mongoose just as the first two reached the van. After that it was really hard to tell just how many mongoose there were going up into and dropping down from the undercarriages, running around having such apparent fun. They were so fast and hugged the ground so well it seemed the ground itself was moving around.

Even if some malicious, intentional introduction of mongoose to Kauai does not occur first, I am convinced the mongoose, among other creatures, will come to Kauai on Lingle's Superferry. But so what? At least Eric 'n Cyn's Kauai friends can freely engage in their alleged right to go with their car on Oahu shopping sprees and Honolulu night club band members can possibly ship all of their gear to Kauai even if no one on Kauai has an interest in their product. And Lingle and her obliging legislators can relax having succeeded in selling out the people of Kauai and Maui to Superferry investors for a few measely thousands of dollars and in-kind campaign contributions. Hawaii State government sucks worse than mere words can express.

[joshuatree]

Last weekend on Oahu for a visit, I watched a mongoose circus for the better part of two early mornings in a row. Walking through a public park my attention was drawn to some movement under a parked vehicle. I thought perhaps it was a rat or perhaps a cat but very shortly afterward a pair of mongoose dropped themselves simultaneously from the vehicle's (a State van) undercarriage and ran playfully across the parking lot into some underbrush only to emerge from the brush and run, hugging the ground as they do, back toward the van. Just before the pair reached the van another mongoose dropped down from under a vehicle parked next to the van, and then another mongoose just as the first two reached the van. After that it was really hard to tell just how many mongoose there were going up into and dropping down from the undercarriages, running around having such apparent fun. They were so fast and hugged the ground so well it seemed the ground itself was moving around.

So if an adequate vehicle inspection program was put in place, do you think a mongoose would not be spotted in the undercarriage?

Recent news have shown that 75% of fake bombs planted by a team went through LAX undetected. Do you think all flights to Kauai and Maui should be banned as well because this only reaffirms that the invasive species threat HSF poses is being risked every single day right now as we speak?

[craig foo]

So if an adequate vehicle inspection program was put in place, do you think a mongoose would not be spotted in the undercarriage?

Recent news have shown that 75% of fake bombs planted by a team went through LAX undetected. Do you think all flights to Kauai and Maui should be banned as well because this only reaffirms that the invasive species threat HSF poses is being risked every single day right now as we speak?

This whole business of relentless Americanization of the planet reminds me of decades old science fiction movie I saw long that positively horrified me. It was "the pod people". All things U.S. are now that way, run by corporate pod people. I'm not one of them, and elaborating on what I think with such people only feeds their mission. Maybe another time joshuatree.

That's a couple sentences worth of my time to match yours. I am presently too disgusted by the movie you are promoting to comment more at your request.

[joshuatree]

This whole business of relentless Americanization of the planet reminds me of decades old science fiction movie I saw long that positively horrified me. It was "the pod people". All things U.S. are now that way, run by corporate pod people. I'm not one of them, and elaborating on what I think with such people only feeds their mission. Maybe another time joshuatree.

That's a couple sentences worth of my time to match yours. I am presently too disgusted by the movie you are promoting to comment more at your request.

What is the point of your post if not for discussion?

Movie? :confused:

[cynsaligia]

Last weekend on Oahu for a visit, I watched a mongoose circus for the better part of two early mornings in a row. Walking through a public park my attention was drawn to some movement under a parked vehicle. I thought perhaps it was a rat or perhaps a cat but very shortly afterward a pair of mongoose dropped themselves simultaneously from the vehicle's (a State van) undercarriage and ran playfully across the parking lot into some underbrush only to emerge from the brush and run, hugging the ground as they do, back toward the van. Just before the pair reached the van another mongoose dropped down from under a vehicle parked next to the van, and then another mongoose just as the first two reached the van. After that it was really hard to tell just how many mongoose there were going up into and dropping down from the undercarriages, running around having such apparent fun. They were so fast and hugged the ground so well it seemed the ground itself was moving around.


would you be willing to share which park this was where you observed this mongoose circus, as you call it?



At least Eric 'n Cyn's Kauai friends can freely engage in their alleged right to go with their car on Oahu shopping sprees...

it's not an alleged right. it's a right guaranteed by the US constitution, other laws/statutes, as well as historical precedence and practice. in the former soviet union, however, you would have needed to apply to the government for a passport-like document if you were a muscovite who wanted to visit a summer dacha in the crimea. would you prefer that the US use that kind of intra-state and inter-state system?


... and Honolulu night club band members can possibly ship all of their gear to Kauai even if no one on Kauai has an interest in their product.

how do you know that no one in kauai would have an interest? are you psychic and able to know at a whim what is in the hearts and minds of all kauaians regarding any specific band?

most bands--dick's included--would have the common sense to find out first whether they would be welcome in a certain market before they spend the money to set up a performance. i know for a fact that many kauaians and mauians would love it if more bands from honolulu could come to their island and share their music. for that matter, i'm sure that honoluluans would equally benefit if more neighbor island bands could come perform in hawaii night clubs, or the waikiki shell, or the blaisedell arena. neighbor island musicians simply do not have the access to as large an audience as they would on their home islands than if they were to perform on oahu. not everyone who listens to local bands buys locally produced cds and not all local bands have the wherewithal to produce their own cds and get it distributed as widely as they would want.

[1stwahine]

would you be willing to share which park this was where you observed this mongoose circus, as you call it?

fOO fOO Man said "Da park...da park. You know da park by da place ova dea." :confused:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Auntie Lynn

[Kittrick]

If the other islands are so concerned about the amount of cars...can't they as an island county make a moritorium on the amount of cars?

I know when I visited the island of Cozumel, they had one, but what happened is that people were driving junky cars instead of buying a new one every-so-often because of the amount of cars had reached its ceiling. If the other islands are against that, then there really just protesting the ferry even though they would probably do the same thing the superferry does, except it would be for their own cars.

[joshuatree]

If the other islands are so concerned about the amount of cars...can't they as an island county make a moritorium on the amount of cars on the other islands?

I know when I visited the island of Cozumel, they had one, but what happened is that people were driving junky cars instead of buying a new one every-so-often because of the amount of cars had reached its ceiling. If the other islands are against that, then there really just protesting the ferry even though they would probably do the same thing the superferry does, except it would be for their own cars.

Good question, another thought along your line is, why hasn't Kauai or Maui imposed a limit on the number of rental cars being brought in via barge? Obviously, if there is too many cars for the island's roadways, why have they not started to impose on rentals? Tourists are outsiders, why the need to cater to their needs as priority #1? In fact, taxis on both islands stand to gain more income.

[cynsaligia]

fOO fOO Man said "Da park...da park. You know da park by da place ova dea." :confused:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Auntie Lynn

yeah, da pahk da one get planny mongoose lidat. :confused:

no, really--all mockery aside, i wanna know where this park is that he saw all those mongoose. cause i can say with no exaggeration whatsoever that i've seen ten times more squirrels in the five visits totalling maybe 12 weeks running around in portland, oregon's residential areas than i've ever seen mongooses in all parts and parks of oahu, where i've lived all mumble years of my life. and i honestly wouldn't mind seeing a circus of mongooses dropping like running turds from car netherlands.

i'm serious! stop laughing! :mad:

[1stwahine]

i'm serious! stop laughing! :mad:

I sked. I stopped LAUGHING.

NOT!!:p

Da park is ova dea behind da place undaneath by da whatchamacallit?:confused:

Foo Foo, why you lie lil dat?

[pzarquon]

Superferry to offer free cruises for active-duty military (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Oct/19/br/br9250637481.html)
The Hawaii Superferry this weekend will offer free "Mahalo" O'ahu coastal cruises for active-duty military personnel and their families, according to a news release issued by Hawaii Superferry officials. The Hawaii Superferry's Alakai will depart from the Honolulu Ferry Terminal at Pier 19. Guests will be offered complimentary food and beverages during the island cruise.Love it. Still can't shake the amusing thought that the military will ultimately buy out the Superferry and use it to move Strykers around. Bet you'll wish you let uncle's Datsun over then!

At least the Superferry isn't sitting idle. I saw it leaving its pier in Honolulu Harbor this morning. For a moment I was figuring someone just said "to hell with it already" and set sail for Hong Kong.

[craig foo]

What is the point of your post if not for discussion?

I post an observation. It's a post that's all. You want to discuss it, discuss it with someone who feels it is worth discussing it with you or who has the time they want to spend to respond to rhetorical questioning. I'm not your mark.

fOO fOO Man said "Da park...da park. You know da park by da place ova dea." HAHAHAHAHAHA
It would not matter if I named the park, you'd hemorrage guffaw anyway. It was as nice a public park as I've ever experienced in the islands and the reason had a lot a to do with absence of people and their machines, but, rest assured it was not in Waikiki or along Honolulu shores because other than too many humans, stray cats and rats in those areas there's precious little, maybe especially mongoose, alive but stressed landscaping.

=======

'Group pushes rules on ferry (http://starbulletin.com/2007/10/19/news/story01.html)
Passengers would be subject to scrutiny, environmentalists say

Proposed conditions include requiring passengers to say if they were using the Superferry to go camping on another island, and then only allowing passengers who have permits to camp in federal state or county parks to be allowed.
Republican Senate leader Fred Hemmings called the proposal "ludicrous."

"It is absolutely hypocrisy when other forms of transportation are not held to those standards. If people want to camp, they can camp. This is still America," Hemmings said.' http://starbulletin.com/2007/10/19/news/story01.html

Hemmings....a dumber creature never walked the Senate floor, and that includes the roaches. "This is still America"....being led by such stupidity proves that more than ever!

Would that Honolulu be opened up to the population of Los Angeles in the same way the loudest mouths of Honolulu want Maui and Kauai to be opened to Honolulu!

Welcome to Honolulu: NO Camping Permits Necessary : : : Choose the Laws You Wish to Obey

[cynsaligia]

I post an observation. It's a post that's all. You want to discuss it, discuss it with someone who feels it is worth discussing it with you or who has the time they want to spend to respond to rhetorical questioning. I'm not your mark.

"it's just a post," my eye! it's chickenisht bs to hide behind that statement when you so vehemently take shots at other people's posts when they do not agree with you.



It would not matter if I named the park, you'd hemorrage guffaw anyway. It was as nice a public park as I've ever experienced in the islands and the reason had a lot a to do with absence of people and their machines, but, rest assured it was not in Waikiki or along Honolulu shores because other than too many humans, stray cats and rats in those areas there's precious little, maybe especially mongoose, alive but stressed landscaping.


more often than not, when some of us are askance at things you claim as fact or observation and provide you with a method of proving veracity, you dance around the answer, avoid answering completely, backpedal, say, "oh, it won't matter if i tell you," or deny that what you said is not what you meant or that we all misunderstood you.

[craig foo]

my eye! it's chickenisht bs to hide behind

Haven't seen your eye or even know to which one you're referring but sounds like you two have a symbiotic case of cerebral indigestion. At least it doesn't have anything to do with your super Specialferry, so perhaps you could post your symptoms in the thread "Places to Share Fowl Wastes Without Indigestion"

Note: This is posted to you two; what you quoted was not. Comment however fowlly at will to whatevers, but don't wasting your drool waiting for a response. You have earned a pigeonhole, or a chicken hole, and I am no bird keeper.

[kamuelakea]

Sad thing is that people like Craig Foo and others on this board who have opposed the Superferry have goals that probably many on this board and many in this state agree with. Limited growth, protecting open spaces, protecting beaches and beach access, protecting threatened plants and animals.

Funny thing is that the Superferry just seems so low on the list of decisions Hawaii's politicians are making which contribute to the anti-Superferry protestors. If those people could use their energy to really start to fight to limit growth via zoning, taxes and laws, they might actually make some progress.

I probably agree with most of the Superferry protestors about things important in controlling Hawaii growth but I don't see the Superferry as much of a factor. Maybe I'm blind.

[joshuatree]

I post an observation. It's a post that's all. You want to discuss it, discuss it with someone who feels it is worth discussing it with you or who has the time they want to spend to respond to rhetorical questioning. I'm not your mark.

Would that Honolulu be opened up to the population of Los Angeles in the same way the loudest mouths of Honolulu want Maui and Kauai to be opened to Honolulu!

Welcome to Honolulu: NO Camping Permits Necessary : : : Choose the Laws You Wish to Obey

Your rhetorical "observations" lead to rhetorical questioning. But you need not worry, if you don't want to answer, no need. People will draw their own conclusions.

Honolulu is open to the population of Los Angeles, so as is Maui, so as is Kauai. And it's just not Los Angeles, but the world. There were ~7.3 million people who visited this state last year. Not one of them had to list what they would be doing, when they be camping. No one has said to abolish camping permits but it is indeed ridiculous that people need to state their itineraries before getting on a boat. Since when did environmentalists = Nazis? Where's the Wehrmacht and the SS?


Haven't seen your eye or even know to which one you're referring but sounds like you two have a symbiotic case of cerebral indigestion. At least it doesn't have anything to do with your super Specialferry, so perhaps you could post your symptoms in the thread "Places to Share Fowl Wastes Without Indigestion"

Note: This is posted to you two; what you quoted was not. Comment however fowlly at will to whatevers, but don't wasting your drool waiting for a response. You have earned a pigeonhole, or a chicken hole, and I am no bird keeper.

You're "intellectual" ramblings are your own undoing, it's sad that you don't see that. I wonder what your next PSAT vocabulary lesson will consist of?

[cynsaligia]

Haven't seen your eye or even know to which one you're referring but sounds like you two have a symbiotic case of cerebral indigestion. At least it doesn't have anything to do with your super Specialferry, so perhaps you could post your symptoms in the thread "Places to Share Fowl Wastes Without Indigestion"

Note: This is posted to you two; what you quoted was not. Comment however fowlly at will to whatevers, but don't wasting your drool waiting for a response. You have earned a pigeonhole, or a chicken hole, and I am no bird keeper.

eh, foo, first of all, even tho my HT name says ericncyn, eric posts separately under another name, as many HTers already know. regardless, eric and i are a couple, so of course we are often of similar opinions. to say we're symbiotic is not only a stretch but proof that you don't know the true meaning of the word "symbiotic" (go look it up; you actually mean to use a different word but i'm not going to help you with that one).

i'd say you're jealous (1) that you're the loner in your wacked out, intellectually disjointed opinions and (2) you're bummed that your (lack of) ability to turn a phrase and win others to your side of the fence are so sadly flaccid. just as much as you needed to learn how to quote properly in a discussion board, you should learn how to proofread. i mean, i'm totally plastered right now writing this (having just come home from a lovely night out with friends at a bar featuring 100+ beer taps...yay, varsity!) but this post is much more readable and credible than your last five put together. i've never been so wasted as to imply that i know what my fellow island inhabitants might feel or think about any given subject; you, on the other hand, have, and presumably, you've made that implication whilst drug and alcohol-free (i say presumably, bcs i don't have the habit of assuming, yaddayaddayadda).

and DUH! you're posting on a discussion board, which means that any comments you make are open for reaction from anybody who reads the threads. if you wanted a private conversation, that's what pms are for. but you won't go the pm route bcs, as i've pointed out, you're habitually chickenisht.

as for what i've earned in your opinion...eh,--you're the one who labeled yourself with such an unfortunately self-prophetic name...FOO! (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?p=167840&highlight=craig#post167840)

:rolleyes: :D

[TuNnL]

Oooookay, getting back on topic...

Interesting "stuff" from Ian Lind's blog (http://ilind.net/2007/10/17/wednesday-5/)today and Doug of Poinography (http://poinography.com/index.php?p=4996)'s blog and Larry Geller's "Disappeared News (http://disappearednews.com/)" blog.I missed this earlier, but mahalo Miulang for the links. Ian Lind, the ever-sharp political observer, points out a disparity becoming more and more public. (I think LikaNui has alluded to it as well in a form of a question) Did Attorney General Mark Bennett issue an opinion supporting an exemption for the Superferry that was ultimately ruled illegal by the courts? :eek:

[joshuatree]

http://starbulletin.com/2007/10/20/news/story01.html

State lawmakers' final draft of the Superferry-savior bill rejects the 29 conditions that environmentalists and ferry opponents had demanded be part of any measure to keep the boat afloat.

Nice to see maybe there will be some common sense that will prevail.

[craigwatanabe]

When I read the first few demands I thought that was a bit extreme. The fact that they're demands is insane! It's as if this group is holding the SF hostage and won't let it sail unless the State of Hawaii meets their "demands".

Protesting is one thing but I think this latest gesture has made those behind the demands as arrogant as what they're fighting against.

[dick]

Last weekend on Oahu for a visit, I watched a mongoose circus for the better part of two early mornings in a row. Walking through a public park my attention was drawn to some movement under a parked vehicle. I thought perhaps it was a rat or perhaps a cat but very shortly afterward a pair of mongoose dropped themselves simultaneously from the vehicle's (a State van) undercarriage and ran playfully across the parking lot into some underbrush only to emerge from the brush and run, hugging the ground as they do, back toward the van. Just before the pair reached the van another mongoose dropped down from under a vehicle parked next to the van, and then another mongoose just as the first two reached the van. After that it was really hard to tell just how many mongoose there were going up into and dropping down from the undercarriages, running around having such apparent fun. They were so fast and hugged the ground so well it seemed the ground itself was moving around.


Interestingly enough, I was at the public hearings on Kauai Sunday, and a gentleman walked to the microphone and told the mongoose story. He talked about visiting Oahu, Kaneohe-side, working on the rebuilding of a lo'i. While there he happened upon a park where he witnessed mongooses dropping from beneath a state van.

I immediately recalled the story from this thread... I thought, "Hey, I've heard that one before..."

[zztype]

Interestingly enough, I was at the public hearings on Kauai Sunday, and a gentleman walked to the microphone and told the mongoose story. He talked about visiting Oahu, Kaneohe-side, working on the rebuilding of a lo'i. While there he happened upon a park where he witnessed mongooses dropping from beneath a state van.

I immediately recalled the story from this thread... I thought, "Hey, I've heard that one before..."

Hey! What was that Kauai guy doing on Oahu? Sucking up all our precious jobs, no doubt!

[speedtek]

What really is an EIS or an EA suppose to prove??? I dont think they will reveal anything we dont already know.

[craigwatanabe]

It will prove that no matter if one is presented, the protesters will find another reason why the HSF cannot operate. They'er hanging their arguements on this decidedly important document. If that EIS or EA proves to redeem HSF, those extremist protesters will find another arguement to stop it.

It comes down to NIMBY.

[TuNnL]

Funny thing is that the Superferry just seems so low on the list of decisions Hawaii's politicians are making which contribute to the anti-Superferry protestors.Apparently, it is a higher priority among the state legislature, then to Governor Lingle. Today’s Advertiser (http://honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071023/NEWS01/710230362) reveals lawmakers were ready to begin a special session tomorrow, but Lingle wants to wait. :rolleyes:

[LikaNui]

If that EIS or EA proves to redeem HSF, those extremist protesters will find another argument to stop it. Indeed. And news reports say that they heard from several Kauai residents, including farmers, who were threatened if they dared to testify at the hearing with state Senators there on Sunday, and that at yesterday's hearing on Maui the folks in support of the SuperFerry were screamed at and harassed.

:mad:

[kamuelakea]

Apparently, it is a higher priority among the state legislature, then to Governor Lingle. Today’s Advertiser (http://honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071023/NEWS01/710230362) reveals lawmakers were ready to begin a special session tomorrow, but Lingle wants to wait. :rolleyes:

Lingle is not "waiting", she is making sure that there is "concensus" prior to calling the special session so that the Plantation Democrats don't just turn the whole thing into a bash lingle session.

I'm not a Lingle cheerleader. But when I look at Lingle and this Superferry thing, I have to give her credit for at least stating her position clearly and in public and sticking to it. She says she is for the Superferry. She told Kauai "it’s a done deal" or words to that effect. Now I know that's not the "local style". Meanwhile, all the Plantation Democrats are hiding behind their desks, not answering their phones and sticking their fingers out the window at the State Capital in order to tell which way the wind is blowing so that they can decide what they should think.

But guess what? You are all going to get a wonderful edjumakation on "local style" with this special session. All those Plantation Democrats who went from Kauai to Maui for their "listening tour" didn't publicly express one opinion on the Superferry. Only BS like, “we need to listen to the people, the people need to be heard, blah blah blah” They are just there to respectfully and humbly listen to the concerned voters. Yeah right!

MY ELEMU!

All those kind, gentle, courteous, quiet but effective Plantation Democrats will go back to Honolulu and SCREW over the lolos on Kauai and Maui in one second. And that’s what I think they are going to do. Why? Because there is too much money behind the Superferry already and they know most voters support it. Say, Hanubasa, Taniguchi, English, Hooser, ...... who else? Remember these guys. They went to listen. 99% of the speakers were AGAINST the Superferry. Now watch how they vote.

See the difference between Haole Republicans and Plantation Asians seems to be that Haoles are honest and open when they screw you; Plantation Asians do it behind your back and with grace and style.

No believe?

Jusss watch.

[craigwatanabe]

Yes means no and no means yes...that's Japanese style and yes we are a very passive-aggressive bunch, you know, "Nah don't worry that's okay it's cool", but we really mean to say is, "you borrow my car and dent it and you not going do anything to fix it?"

Understanding asian culture can be so frustrating:rolleyes:

[TuNnL]

Lingle is not "waiting", she is making sure that there is "concensus" prior to calling the special sessionWhatever, Kamu. It’s just semantics, as far as I’m concerned. Waiting or making sure ultimately amounts to a delay. And a delay has been and will continue to cost the Superferry money which LikaNui so pointedly describes (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=170303&postcount=236) as “completely unacceptable.”

those kind, gentle, courteous, quiet but effective Plantation Democrats will go back to Honolulu and SCREW over the lolos on Kauai and Maui in one second. And that’s what I think they are going to do. ... They went to listen. 99% of the speakers were AGAINST the Superferry. Now watch how they vote.See, Kamu? You just proved my point. There is already consensus. The House didn’t want any part of these “listening” sessions. If you’re saying the Senate has made up its mind as well, then what other excuse will you give Lingle for delaying the special session? I think it’s obvious. She cares far more for her political tailfeather then a $95 million boat. :eek:

[68-eldo]

I’ve been thinking that we on Oahu need to make our own demands of the Super Ferry to protect our island from potentially serious side effects.

Memminger beat me to it. (http://starbulletin.com/2007/10/23/features/memminger.html)

While Memminger’s demands are insanely ridiculous, my demands are merely ridiculous, and the outer islander’s demands are simply ridiculous.

I think we should demand that:

1) All outer islanders shower in showers provided by the Super Ferry and be inspected for ukus before they board the Super Ferry.

2) All outer islander’s must show a same day return trip ticket or proof of proper lodging such as hotel reservations or written invitation from friend or relative.

3) All cars registered on the outer islands must be given a safety check by Super Ferry employees unless the driver can prove the current one was not issued by a friend or relative.

4) All drivers of outer islander cars must prove they are proficient at entering and exiting freeways and know better than to do things such as slam on the brakes to see if aunty is out in her yard.

Anybody have any more?

P.S. I use the term “outer islander” because they are not being very neighborly right now.

[zztype]

5) Should pass a written test proving that they know not to stop their car in the middle of the road to talk story if auntie does indeed prove to be standing in that front yard.

6) Have proof that they are employed full-time on the "outer island" and are traveling "on vacation," not to go to a job on Oahu.

7) Show proof that they have brought abundant omiyage from their resident island to appease the opu of their Oahu hosts.

8) Show proof that they have long-term residence on said "outer island" and are not recent mainland arrivals looking to find cheap accommodations on the beach or a "hostel" to hang out in for a few months.

...

:D

[LikaNui]

Suggested edit of item #2:

2) All outer islander’s must show a same day return trip ticket or proof of proper lodging such as hotel reservations or written invitation from friend or relative, or show an approved camping permit.

I'm sure we can all think of more.

[titilejomi]

The special session is now airing Live on Channel 53

[Kalei99]

They're taking a break until 2:00pm...but you can listen live Here (http://www.akaku.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=70&Itemid=131) .

[Miulang]

They're taking a break until 2:00pm...but you can listen live Here (http://www.akaku.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=70&Itemid=131) .
The testimony has been really really interesting. One of the most interesting things that I heard so far is how some professors in the UH Department of Environmental Sciences were commissioned last year to look at the current HRS343 but several "somebodies" in some state agencies dropped the ball and didn't commit the funding to have the study completed. After hours and hours of testimony, that perked up a few Senators' ears, and I'm sure that little oversight will be taken care of next session.

Miulang

P.S. I am surprised at the number of Neighbor Island testifiers who are in Honolulu today (especially those from Kaua'i). They must've taken advantage of those $19 airfares. Ooh...Garibaldi is going to be testifying in a few minutes, too.

[speedtek]

I still don't get it.

If I ship my car by Young Bros. to Kauai (all without an inspection of the car) and fly there to pick up my car (without cleaning my shoes or taking a shower), drive around Kauai, use their camp sites and buy food in their stores. Camp in the parks. and do this for a week. no one on Kauai seems to care. BUT the minute I do the same thing with the HSF I am dead meat by the so called Enviromentalists on Kauai.

[1stwahine]

Listening to Senator Hooser, If I was Garibaldi, I would say Aloha, walk out and set sail outta Hawai'i!:mad:

I'm foa The Hawaii Superferry. The way Senator Hooser was asking the questions were just plain rude!

Auntie Lynn

[LikaNui]

Listening to Senator Hooser, If I was Garibaldi, I would say Aloha, walk out and set sail outta Hawai'i! :mad: That's EXACTLY what I was thinking too!
:mad:

[1stwahine]

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking too!
:mad:

"Brilliant Minds":D

Auntie Lynn

[anapuni808]

you have to keep in mind - next year is an election year. Hooser wants to be re-elected. if he comes out in support of HSF (as he did several years ago), then he totally blows his chances of coming back to the leg. Hooser is a politician - nice guy, who I've met, but he is still a politician who is always looking towards the next election.

and sadly, I think HSF will end up leaving Hawaii and we will all be the losers if that happens.

[pzarquon]

Wherever the SuperFerry goes, I hope it ends up in a city I'd already want to visit. The Seattle Superferry. The Victoria Superferry. The Hong Kong Superferry. Oh, to ride in comfort and class and to tell tales to the locals about the city that drove it away...

[Miulang]

Wherever the SuperFerry goes, I hope it ends up in a city I'd already want to visit. The Seattle Superferry. The Victoria Superferry. The Hong Kong Superferry. Oh, to ride in comfort and class and to tell tales to the locals about the city that drove it away...
I doubt Seattle can use it. We had some fast foot ferries up here, but they caused so much erosion on the banks of the channels they passed through (by their wakes) that they had to slow waaaay down, which kinda defeated their purpose. They no longer are running because the fares were so expensive compared to the slower car ferries (they were a private company, not funded in any way by the State, the way the car ferries are owned and operated by the State as part of the highway system).

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

Wherever the SuperFerry goes, I hope it ends up in a city I'd already want to visit. The Seattle Superferry.I doubt Seattle can use it.But you can still visit us, Ryan. Please do. E komo mai.

[mel]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2162/1739734357_0ef0bdcb20.jpg
30,000 Superferry Supporters Can't Be Wrong! - Mr. Garibaldi holds a thick binder with the names of 30,000+ supporters of Hawaii Superferry who registered with the Friends of Hawaii Superferry (http://www.hawaiisuperferryfriends.com/) website late this afternoon at the Senate hearing.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2110/1740031525_5022ee0b06_o.jpg
Superferry employees and supporters waved signs in front of the Capitol this morning.

More Superferry photos at this link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/macprohawaii/sets/72157600807807224/).

[speedtek]

Listening to Senator Hooser, If I was Garibaldi, I would say Aloha, walk out and set sail outta Hawai'i!:mad:

I'm foa The Hawaii Superferry. The way Senator Hooser was asking the questions were just plain rude!

Auntie Lynn

But he is the "minor" majority and I dont think he will get re-elected. he will find out. Everyone I know won't vote for him now.

[Adri]

In case anyone's interested, this is the bill under consideration

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/splsession2007b/bills/Superferry_Proposed.pdf

I am not against the Super Ferry but I do think it's a bad idea to make law for one specific company (even if the bill refers to "a large capacity ferry vessel company" instead of the Super Ferry by name) and I am still curious about why the Super Ferry fought so hard for so long to avoid doing the EIS in the first place. They could have done the EIS much more quickly and much less expensively than all this litigation and hullabaloo they've been going through twisting and turning to try to avoid it.

[LikaNui]

I am still curious about why the Super Ferry fought so hard for so long to avoid doing the EIS in the first place. Since that same question comes up almost daily in almost every media and every hearing, I have to wonder why folks don't realize how many millions of dollars an EIS costs! A 6- to 8-month EA is very expensive, but a two-year EIS, with all the outrageously high research and consultant charges, could well run into tens of millions of dollars. So clearly the question really is why would HSF spend millions and millions of dollars on an EIS the State Of Hawaii itself clearly told HSF they didn't need?!?? Now that would have been a really poor business decision.
Why do folks think the state is pressing so hard to force HSF to be unable to ever sue them for state actions past, present and future?
It is the state who is at fault for not getting an EA/EIS, not the SuperFerry.

[Kittrick]

I doubt Seattle can use it. We had some fast foot ferries up here, but they caused so much erosion on the banks of the channels they passed through (by their wakes) that they had to slow waaaay down, which kinda defeated their purpose. They no longer are running because the fares were so expensive compared to the slower car ferries (they were a private company, not funded in any way by the State, the way the car ferries are owned and operated by the State as part of the highway system).

Miulang

I enjoyed the fast ferry between Bremerton and Seattle, but it was those people on Bainbridge Island that paid millions for their homes who were complaining that they would fall into the sound heh. 30 minutes for a trip that would normally take 60 was a pretty good ride. Especially if you were skipping school to go see the laser shows at the Pacific Science Center like I did:)