Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

[escondido100]

it appears that some legal housekeeping needs to be done before tha ferry can sail. namely judge cardoza in maui needs to lift the injunction he placed on sailing to maui. I am wondering of the likelihood of the judge not lifting this injunction..... it appears that the maui opponents are going to do whatever they can to keep it from being lifted.....if that happens whats next?
another long chapter of wait and see? surely the legislature has a feel for what the judge will do......i foresee more huge problems on the horizon if this should occur.......what do the HT people think?

[Composite 2992]

This is not a joke.

For real, not a joke.

I believe that if the designers of the Superferry made it look less like a Military anphibius attack ship and more like a Hawaiian double hull canoe with the fake sails and all, there would be little political objection.

Serious.

You might have something there.

Maybe name it the "Pau Hana Express" or something equally innocuous.

[zztype]

I'm sorry, these guys are fscking CRAZY!

You need to be prepared for these forces to act without restraint resulting in possible physical injury or death.


Holy carp!

And I neva know the Supreme Court makes the laws!



http://www.surferspath.com/news/category/world/block-the-hawaii-superferry/sp_123714.html

Block the Hawai?i Superferry
Posted on November 05, 2007 @ 11:22 AM

A Message from Jim Albertini and Lanny Sinkin

Aloha pumehana,

We come as Kupuna who have spent many years affirming our commitment to peace, justice, protection of the Earth, and freedom to speak to those who are considering entering the water to block the Superferry. Our purpose is to share our mana?o regarding the Superferry situation you now face.

At the call of the Governor, the Legislature passed a law permitting Superferry to violate the law as established by the Hawai?i Supreme Court. Those who understand the unconstitutional, illegal, and immoral nature of this act are left to respond.

...

In this instance, you are faced with a lawless conspiracy meant to ensure access for the Alakai and the four other Superferry boats coming to Hawai?i, to our waters and our islands, primarily for military purposes. Knowing that they are acting outside the law will inform the manner in which they behave. You will have military, police, and other law enforcement “just following orders” at a time when the leadership of the United States considers the Geneva Conventions to be “quaint.”

...

You need to be prepared for these forces to act without restraint resulting in possible physical injury or death.

...

[Composite 2992]

"Aloha pumehana"? "Kupuna"?

Jim Albertini wasn't even born here. Give me a break!

More BS, too about the Superferry and the military. As though we don't already have a bunch of military vessels in Hawaii. Maybe they hadn't noticed there's a busy little lagoon in Leeward Oahu called "Pearl Harbor".

[joshuatree]

Is this a call to arms? If only people were that fired up over more important issues like reforming education, the homeless, and health care. :(

At the call of the Governor, the Legislature passed a law permitting Superferry to violate the law as established by the Hawai?i Supreme Court. Those who understand the unconstitutional, illegal, and immoral nature of this act are left to respond.

I see errors left and right. To violate a law est. by the HSC? Uh...courts never make the law, they interpret the law.

In this instance, you are faced with a lawless conspiracy meant to ensure access for the Alakai and the four other Superferry boats coming to Hawai?i, to our waters and our islands, primarily for military purposes.

Four other boats? When did HSF order up a flotilla? That's new to me. And do we have definite proof that the HSF is going to transport military? Did they secure a contract? Sorry to say, but this looks more and more like drama queens.

[Miulang]

Judge Cardoza granted HSF and the State's request to expedite the decision on lifting the injunction blocking Kahului Harbor. The next hearing will be held on Nov. 14.

Here is Larry Foster's (http://www.planetkauai.blogspot.com/)play by play of the proceedings this morning:

Attorney Isaac Hall for the plaintiffs said they plan to challenge Act 2 on numerous constitutional grounds. He said that the state constitution requires the governor and the legislature to protect the environment and he plans to put on evidence that the conditions and protocols promulgated by the governor do not do that sufficiently.

The judge is granting a motion to enlarge the allowable length of memorandum in opposition to 35 pages, per plaintiff's motion (and 15 page reply per the state's oral motion).

They are arguing whether the court should enter final findings of fact and conclusions of law in the prior injunction order. The state objects since the law has changed. The court will enter the order based on the decision taken at that time.

Plaintiff asked for a final order in the case. State asked for no order prior to the hearing. Judge asks whether court must issue a final order to conclude that case? State argues that any order should reflect the law at the time the order is issued and the issue should be argued at the upcoming hearing - any orders should reflect the law as it stands now (after Act 2). State also argues that the injunction order satisfies rendering the record clear as to what occurred.

Court says its not comfortable not issuing findings and conclusions on issues already ruled on. And such final orders ought to be based on the law and the facts at the time of the decision. Otherwise the record has a gap in it.

Mr. Hall (obviously) agrees with the court. He indicates that the final order requires state to pay attorneys fees of plaintiffs and he worries that the state might try to weasel out of that order until it issues.

Mr. Hall says state is arguing the final order needs to be modified and plaintiffs need to know exactly what the final order says in order to effectively argue that it should not be modified.

Judge will issue final orders (findings and conclusions) reflecting the status of the case at the time the order was entered on the record. Not intended as any view or inclination concerning events that occured after Oct. 9.


On a side note, there was a minor oil spill in Kahului Harbor last night and this morning. The harbormaster shut down the port completely so no vessels could enter or leave the harbor for safety reasons.

Miulang

[na alii]

I'm sorry, these guys are fscking CRAZY!

You need to be prepared for these forces to act without restraint resulting in possible physical injury or death.


Holy carp!

And I neva know the Supreme Court makes the laws!



http://www.surferspath.com/news/category/world/block-the-hawaii-superferry/sp_123714.html

Block the Hawai?i Superferry
Posted on November 05, 2007 @ 11:22 AM

A Message from Jim Albertini and Lanny Sinkin

Aloha pumehana,

We come as Kupuna who have spent many years affirming our commitment to peace, justice, protection of the Earth, and freedom to speak to those who are considering entering the water to block the Superferry. Our purpose is to share our mana?o regarding the Superferry situation you now face.

At the call of the Governor, the Legislature passed a law permitting Superferry to violate the law as established by the Hawai?i Supreme Court. Those who understand the unconstitutional, illegal, and immoral nature of this act are left to respond.

...

In this instance, you are faced with a lawless conspiracy meant to ensure access for the Alakai and the four other Superferry boats coming to Hawai?i, to our waters and our islands, primarily for military purposes. Knowing that they are acting outside the law will inform the manner in which they behave. You will have military, police, and other law enforcement “just following orders” at a time when the leadership of the United States considers the Geneva Conventions to be “quaint.”

...

You need to be prepared for these forces to act without restraint resulting in possible physical injury or death.

...

I haven't heard of James Albertini's name in eons. Remember the incident at Hickam he pulled off in 72'?

"James W. Douglass and James V. Albertini are found guilty of conspiracy and damage to files at Hickam Air Force Base's electronic warfare office on March 2. Douglass was an assistant professor of religion at the University of Hawai'i. Albertini was discharged from his job as a teacher at St. Ann's Catholic School after the Hickam incident. Douglass poured blood, which he said was his own, on the Hickam files. Albertini was stopped inside the office as Douglass was being subdued."

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Aug/15/ln/150history.html

[MixedPlateBroker]

If anyone's curious as to what some other states will be rockin, ferry-wise, here's a peek at the proposed solar-powered ferry for SF:
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/11/11-8-07-solar_sailor.jpg
At least we have wireless access and Spam musubi.:p
Story here (http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/09/solar-powered-ferry-could-be-headed-to-san-francisco/)

[Miulang]

Today Judge Cardoza ruled that Act 2 was legal so he is lifting the injunction for Kahului Harbor; HOWEVER, the plaintiffs can still appeal that decision, so it may not be over quite yet.

The legalese of the decision made easier to understand (http://www.planetkauai.blogspot.com/)

Miulang

[sansei]

:( hi this is sansei and in reading miulang's post, it make's some sense only i would've agreed with the person who wanted to file a petition to sue linda lingle and that would've made the best sense and i hope in the next election,she's defeated so we wont have to hear of linda lingle again and she wont ever be governor again. i think they the enviormentalist will try to overturn and have the judge put the injunction in again and i'll be smiling.:)


well thank's for your time:(

[LikaNui]

From this Breaking News item (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Nov/14/br/br9265074183.html) on the Advertiser's website:

Judge clears Hawaii Superferry to sail

The Hawaii Superferry has been cleared to sail.
Maui Circuit Judge Joseph Cardoza today lifted a court injunction that has kept the high-speed ferry from operating to Maui since Aug. 27.
The judge ruled this afternoon, after hearing arguments from state Attorney General Mark Bennett and Wailuku attorney Isaac Hall, who is representing three groups pushing for an environmental review before the ferry can resume service.
Hawaii Superferry President and CEO John Garibaldi, who is attending the hearing, told The Advertiser today that if the injunction is lifted, the company would announce a startup date by week's end.
He said it would take about two weeks to rehire furloughed workers and gear back up to provide service to between Honolulu, Maui and Kauai.
Cardoza's lifting of the injunction was the ferry's last legal hurdle to resume operations, wrapping up a two and half year legal challenge that nearly scuttled the $250 million enterprise.
(...)

And here's the item (http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=6410) from the Star-Bulletin website:

Judge lifts injunction on Superferry

A Maui judge lifted an injunction against the Hawaii Superferry today, helping to clear the way for the ship to resume sailing to Kahului Harbor.
Maui Circuit Judge Joseph Cardoza made the ruling this afternoon after hearing oral arguments this morning on a motion to lift the order.
The motion was filed after Gov. Linda Lingle signed into law a bill authorizing large vessels like the Superferry to operate while an environmental study was being done. The law was passed by the Legislature in special session last month.
Superferry chief executive officer John Garibaldi has said his interisland carrier could resume operations in a couple of weeks once it receives government approvals, including the lifting of the injunction.
(...)
Attorney Isaac Hall, representing some citizen groups including Maui Tomorrow, has argued that the new law passed in special session is unconstitutional.
(...)
After Cardoza issued his ruling to lift the injunction, Hall requested a stay of the decision while the plaintiffs appeal it to a higher court. Cardoza denied Hall's request.

HALLELUJAH!!!

GO SUPERFERRY!!!

:)

[zztype]

Woo hoo! I get tickets! Anybody get one big pickup truck, like go Maui with me go grab some rocks and opihi! Can go buy up all da manju, too, bring um back Honolulu!

Heeheehee! :D

[helen]

i hope in the next election,she's defeated so we wont have to hear of linda lingle again and she wont ever be governor again.
Due to state law the governor can only serve two terms and this is Linda Lingle's second term. So she won't be running for governor the next time around.

[Lei Liko]

[...]


HALLELUJAH!!!

GO SUPERFERRY!!!

:)

What he said!

[Adri]

True, but she *could* run for something else.

[oceanpacific]

:( hi this is sansei and in reading miulang's post, it make's some sense only i would've agreed with the person who wanted to file a petition to sue linda lingle and that would've made the best sense and i hope in the next election,she's defeated so we wont have to hear of linda lingle again and she wont ever be governor again. i think they the enviormentalist will try to overturn and have the judge put the injunction in again and i'll be smiling.:)


well thank's for your time:(

This is totally INCOHERENT!

[LikaNui]

Due to state law the governor can only serve two terms and this is Linda Lingle's second term. So she won't be running for governor the next time around. Thanks for saying that, Helen. I was going to say the same thing earlier, but then I decided to just skip it because, well, trying to explain anything to Sansei is like talking to a brick wall.
And I try to not do that. :p

[Konaguy]

Today Judge Cardoza ruled that Act 2 was legal so he is lifting the injunction for Kahului Harbor; HOWEVER, the plaintiffs can still appeal that decision, so it may not be over quite yet.


It is not over yet. But I doubt the plaintiffs can get any appeal expedited where it can be heard and decided in two weeks ?

[kamuelakea]

:( hi this is sansei and in reading miulang's post, it make's some sense only i would've agreed with the person who wanted to file a petition to sue linda lingle and that would've made the best sense and i hope in the next election,she's defeated so we wont have to hear of linda lingle again and she wont ever be governor again. i think they the enviormentalist will try to overturn and have the judge put the injunction in again and i'll be smiling.:)


well thank's for your time:(


Sansei,

Hi. How are you? Good I hope.

Anyway, can you sense that you guyz are loosing your grip? Jusss like your man Cayetano said last week, only got one Haole Republican in office and yet she seems like she's getting things done her way? Funny kine no? No can be? One Haole lady against 100 samurai legislators? Who going win?

You probably don't like Superferry cuz you guyz aren't getting your cut. Not like the good old days when the Plantation Democrats would upzone da Aina and sell for huge profits to Haole and Japan Japanee developers. Hooo, doz waz da dayz, no Sensei?

Thank you for your time Sansei, oh, and, Arigato plenny.

[Miulang]

People taking their cars to Maui are still going to have problems. The 2 cars per minute ruling from Judge August still holds, as does having non-HSF employees monitoring the traffic at that corner. The last car off the boat will be waiting at the dock more than 1 1/2 hours to get onto the main road.

When going back home with your car, get to the dock early too (they will be open 2 hours ahead of sailing time) because they will be thoroughly inspecting EVERY SINGLE CAR.

2 more key dates for HSF: January 2008, when the Legislature begins its next session and March 2009, when the EIS is supposed to be completed and Act 2 goes away.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

People taking their cars to Maui are still going to have problems. The sky is falling! :rolleyes:

The 2 cars per minute ruling from Judge August still holds, as does having non-HSF employees monitoring the traffic at that corner. The last car off the boat will be waiting at the dock more than 1 1/2 hours to get onto the main road. Cool. I don't mind waiting at all. The vendors in the area will get some of my money as I stroll around the neighborhood.

When going back home with your car, get to the dock early too (they will be open 2 hours ahead of sailing time) because they will be thoroughly inspecting EVERY SINGLE CAR. Inspect all they want. I've got nothing to hide. And like arrival, I can kill some waiting time shopping in the neighborhood.
Unless, of course, Maui doesn't want my money. :rolleyes:

When you're dealt lemons, make lemonade.

[infinitypro]

While I would have liked to have taken the HSF to Maui, it's better late than never. CHOOOO HOOOOO let the HSF sail! :D:)

[1stwahine]

While I would have liked to have taken the HSF to Maui, it's better late than never. CHOOOO HOOOOO let the HSF sail!

Exactly! I'm going to Kauai on Friday. How I wish I was taking Leimomi with me on da Superferry!:D Shua would have want to see what kind of action if any would have occurred.:p Well, I'll get to ask my Ohana up close and those who live there what dey think first hand.

I'll report back with my findings.;)

Auntie Lynn

[Konaguy]

The million dollar question is if the plaintiffs will be able to find a judge that will grant another injunction blocking service to Maui.

[Miulang]

The million dollar question is if the plaintiffs will be able to find a judge that will grant another injunction blocking service to Maui.

There's one more hurdle they have to get past: the court of Judge Joel August. I'm not sure he's going to be willing to get rid of that 2 car per minute rule he established, which HSF says is a deal breaker. And even if he does allow more than 2 cars per minute, the traffic monitors (who will not be HSF employees) will be the ones who determine how many cars leave the dock area, depending on the main traffic flow on Kaahumanu. During the work week, I don't think many more than 2 cars a minute are going to be able to merge onto the main road anyway, because traffic right at that intersection is generally pretty horrid most of the day even without HSF traffic.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Funny that neither Honolulu newspapers mentioned this little incident (http://www.mauinews.com/news/2007/11/16/01supk1116.html)involving the HSF barge in Kahului Harbor yesterday afternoon.

Kahului Harbor is notorious for its winter swells. The ones that broke the mooring yesterday were estimated to be around 5 ft, which is nothing. But it's also the reason why surfers like to surf there.

I wouldn't want to be anywhere near Kahului Harbor if there was a tsunami, either, because the harbor is like a giant funnel that amplifies the waves once they get past the breakwater.

No serious damage was reported, although a bollard at berth 2C appeared to have been cracked.

Last December, when swells were much bigger – estimated 10 to 15 feet – ships tugging at their lines ripped four huge bollards off two of the piers.

Steve Pfister, the harbor master, said then that if something is to fail, he would prefer to lose a bollard rather than have it hold and finally drag off a chunk of pier with it.

Pfister was away Thursday, but last year he had called berth 2C “the worst place to park” when the water in the harbor is surging hard.

Hawaii Superferry officials deferred comment to the state, which owns the barge.

Ishikawa said a bollard sheared off Pier 2 Wednesday as well.

“The swells weren’t that huge,” he said.

He said the state would monitor the situation but he could not say what the event implied, if anything, for daily operations. The company said it would announce its plans for resumption of service today.


Miulang

[LikaNui]

Just now saw on KITV news that the SuperFerry will start runs to Maui on December 1.
One-way fares will be $29 through December 20, then will go up to $39.
No decision yet on a startup date for Kauai.
I couldn't find that info on any websites yet, including SuperFerry's own website or KITV's site. But assuming KITV's report is true, then...

WHOOPEE!!!!!!!! :)

EDIT: Okay, the Advertiser has it now at this link (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Nov/16/br/br4195738620.html), which includes:

The Hawaii Superferry will resume service to Maui on Dec. 1 with $29 special one-way fares from Dec. 1 to Dec. 20.
The company said a date for commencing service to and from Kaua'i has not yet been determined.
"We have already begun community outreach efforts on Kaua'i." said Hawaii Superferry CEO John Garibaldi. "We will make our decision about when we commence our Kauai service once that process is completed."
(...)
The Superferry will leave Honolulu daily at 6:30 a.m. and arrive in Kahului at 9:30 a.m. It will depart Kahului at 11 a.m. and arrive in Honolulu at 2 p.m.
The Superferry said after its initial $29 fare it will offer $39 one-way fares beginning Dec. 21 and through March 12, 2008.
The company said reservations will open at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow. These special inaugural fares will only be available on an advance-purchase basis and reservations must be made online through www.HawaiiSuperferry.com or through the call center at 877-HI-FERRY (877-443-3779). The call center is open daily from 6 a.m. to 7 p.m. HST.
The company said a reduced passenger vehicle fare will also be offered at $55 each way. Motorcycles, scooters, and mopeds are $35. All promotional fares are subject to applicable Hawai'i taxes and fees. The fuel surcharge has been waived for these promotional fares.
The company said customers who have already purchased tickets at a higher fare for travel Dec. 1, 2007 - March 12, 2008, will automatically be refunded the difference of the special fares.

[joshuatree]

Funny that neither Honolulu newspapers mentioned this little incident (http://www.mauinews.com/news/2007/11/16/01supk1116.html)involving the HSF barge in Kahului Harbor yesterday afternoon.

Kahului Harbor is notorious for its winter swells. The ones that broke the mooring yesterday were estimated to be around 5 ft, which is nothing. But it's also the reason why surfers like to surf there.

I wouldn't want to be anywhere near Kahului Harbor if there was a tsunami, either, because the harbor is like a giant funnel that amplifies the waves once they get past the breakwater.

Actually, it was in the Advertiser yesterday.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Nov/15/br/br2401356789.html

It sounds to me Kahului Harbor needs a major revision to deal with swells. Perhaps a huge wave break that crosses in front of the harbor opening.

[Miulang]

Actually, it was in the Advertiser yesterday.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Nov/15/br/br2401356789.html

It sounds to me Kahului Harbor needs a major revision to deal with swells. Perhaps a huge wave break that crosses in front of the harbor opening.
It would be odd for the State to spend millions to fix a problem that has plagued all harbor users for years just because of HSF, don't you think?

And those 3 1/2 month-long special introductory fares? Wonder if they notified the PUC about the changes? Their tariff specifically states that they have to have that fuel surcharge included in their ticket prices. Apparently the PUC dinged HSF for the $5 fares, too because they just arbitrarily chose that price without notifying or getting approval from the PUC.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

It would be odd for the State to spend millions to fix a problem that has plagued all harbor users for years just because of HSF, don't you think?

And those 3 1/2 month-long special introductory fares? Wonder if they notified the PUC about the changes? Their tariff specifically states that they have to have that fuel surcharge included in their ticket prices. Apparently the PUC dinged HSF for the $5 fares, too because they just arbitrarily chose that price without notifying or getting approval from the PUC.

What's odd? That the HSF's barge experienced the same problem that many others have experienced and the problem should be fixed? It's not a fix specifically for the HSF. In fact, you're the only one who's trying to make some sort of correlation between what the barge experienced and the harbor needing a fix as something HSF specific.

I'm sure the HSF has decided they can deal with a ding regarding their intro fares. It certainly seems like you can't let it go that the HSF will be able to resume service. If anything, the faster they burn their money, the quicker they will go under, shouldn't that make you happy?

[Miulang]

What's odd? That the HSF's barge experienced the same problem that many others have experienced and the problem should be fixed? It's not a fix specifically for the HSF. In fact, you're the only one who's trying to make some sort of correlation between what the barge experienced and the harbor needing a fix as something HSF specific.

I'm sure the HSF has decided they can deal with a ding regarding their intro fares. It certainly seems like you can't let it go that the HSF will be able to resume service. If anything, the faster they burn their money, the quicker they will go under, shouldn't that make you happy?

If it was another NCL ship losing its mooring, or a YB barge, I seriously doubt the State would consider fixing it. What I am concerned about is the DOT will try another quick fix by forcing the YB barges to move out of pier 2B, where the barge currently is moored while 2C is fixed. If critical supplies that are needed by Maui are displaced or delayed because of HSF, there will be serious repercussions.

While they continue to burn through their money, I'd also like to make sure no one gets hurt and everything is run according to the current laws.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

The sheer audacity of some people just leaves me... speechless.

:rolleyes:

[joshuatree]

If it was another NCL ship losing its mooring, or a YB barge, I seriously doubt the State would consider fixing it. What I am concerned about is the DOT will try another quick fix by forcing the YB barges to move out of pier 2B, where the barge currently is moored while 2C is fixed. If critical supplies that are needed by Maui are displaced or delayed because of HSF, there will be serious repercussions.

While they continue to burn through their money, I'd also like to make sure no one gets hurt and everything is run according to the current laws.

Does it really matter what serves as a catalyst to a fix for Kahului Harbor? Not unless you feel that swells in a harbor should be considered just fine and dandy. With all the commotion over HSF, there is no way the state will even attempt to switch piers. The damage was superficial.

A question I like to ask, are you against an additional wave break that could resolve the swell issue? Do you think in this day and age, surfers and cargo ships should be allowed in the same harbor?

[Miulang]

Does it really matter what serves as a catalyst to a fix for Kahului Harbor? Not unless you feel that swells in a harbor should be considered just fine and dandy. With all the commotion over HSF, there is no way the state will even attempt to switch piers. The damage was superficial.

A question I like to ask, are you against an additional wave break that could resolve the swell issue? Do you think in this day and age, surfers and cargo ships should be allowed in the same harbor?
They're probably going to have to build up that west breakwater (like you and I discussed much earlier) in order to move the cruise ships and HSF away from the "working" part of the harbor. For security and safety reasons, the mix of passengers from both HSF and NCL and the heavy equipment used by YB, Matson and PASHA is less than ideal. If they build out that side of the harbor where the public boat launch is, the swells won't be as severe. Dredging the harbor some more in order to accomplish that might even reduce the size of the swells so no other mitigation is required.

There's supposed to be a storm coming in to the islands this weekend with high seas. So it'll be interesting to see if the DOT has already replaced the cracked bollard and secured the barge better this time if there are large winter swells.

However, the BEST solution would be to move all passenger operations completely away from Kahului Harbor and build a second commercial port. Mala Wharf on the Lahaina side has a harbor that is deep enough already (it was used during WW2 to land sailors on cruisers) and is far away enough from both Lahaina Harbor and the Kaanapali area where it wouldn't impact traffic. Even if HSF had to slow way down to use Mala because it is smack dab in the middle of the NMS, the shorter distance between Oahu and the west side would probably mean the transit time would still equal the time it would take to go to Kahului or might even be a little less.

Of course, any long term solution is going to cost the state beaucoup bux. But it's required now. I really don't think a big tent and porta potties is an adequate ferry terminal, and the traffic pattern was not thought out very well. It would have been better to let the ferry cars drive on Ala Luina and exit/enter at Hobron, where the cruise ship passengers enter and exit now.

Miulang

[Miulang]

What the Honolulu newspapers are not reporting about the barge breaking loose (http://www.mauinews.com/news/2007/11/17/03coag1117.html) in Kahului Harbor.

Now there have been quotes from 2 "experts" on Kahului Harbor---the harbormaster and the Coast Guard---who both say that placement of that barge at the end of pier 2C is, to put it politely, "not very wise". So if the Coast Guard and the harbormaster, in consultation with DOT about the barge placement this past summer, recommended that it not be placed at the end of Pier 2C, why did DOT still insist on putting it there? Is this another case of the DOT being so myopic that they neglected to consider possible consequences...again?

Miulang

[LikaNui]

What the Honolulu newspapers are not reporting about the barge breaking loose (http://www.mauinews.com/news/2007/11/17/03coag1117.html) in Kahului Harbor. Funny, that article comes off nowhere near as direly doom and gloom as your impression of it. My impression is that you hope folks won't actually read the links you provide, but this is just one of numerous times that you only report tiny snippets from articles that don't support your SuperFerry hatred.
You somehow forgot to quote this from that same article:
In recent years, there have been three incident reports at Kahului Harbor about barges that were involved in collisions or near misses. None resulted in serious damage, oil spills or interference with port operations.
Can you please show us where (if) you whined and moaned about those three incidents? Surely you're as concerned about other barges besides just the barge from the other day... which, by the way, the state owns, not SuperFerry. :rolleyes:

And you also somehow forgot to quote this from that same article:
Dave Ward, president of the Hawaiian Canoe Club, said his club has taken a neutral stance about the Superferry, but “safety is a big concern” for recreational users of the harbor.
“I am sure the DOT will check out alternatives and have a strong safety policy,” Ward said.
Now, you've said a million times that the canoe clubs are rabidly against the SuperFerry, but here, in an article you yourself provided but hoped we wouldn't read, we find that they have taken NO position for or against the SuperFerry. And as a matter of fact, most canoe teams in the state have said they WANT to use the SuperFerry to travel to competitions on other islands and to be able to take their own canoes.
Apparently someone forgot to relay that news to Seattle. :rolleyes:
This all reminds me of your earlier claim that Maui farmers hated the SuperFerry, but I provided links that showed they actively and vocally WANT SuperFerry.
Oh, and don't forget to pretend that you never saw this reply. What a convenient way to ignore those pesky little facts.
:rolleyes:

[oceanpacific]

Lika, that's why I ignore these "lame" rantings from 2500 miles away. A case of half-truths and selective "evidence." No credibility at all.

[joshuatree]

What the Honolulu newspapers are not reporting about the barge breaking loose (http://www.mauinews.com/news/2007/11/17/03coag1117.html) in Kahului Harbor.

Now there have been quotes from 2 "experts" on Kahului Harbor---the harbormaster and the Coast Guard---who both say that placement of that barge at the end of pier 2C is, to put it politely, "not very wise". So if the Coast Guard and the harbormaster, in consultation with DOT about the barge placement this past summer, recommended that it not be placed at the end of Pier 2C, why did DOT still insist on putting it there? Is this another case of the DOT being so myopic that they neglected to consider possible consequences...again?

2C might not be the best but then, can the barge be placed at 2B? Won't you then think YB is being further squeezed out? Or what if YB's new larger barges use 2C? Would that be a great idea? I still fall back on the solution that another breakwater is needed at the entrance to prevent swells to be entering into the harbor to begin with.

[Miulang]

2C might not be the best but then, can the barge be placed at 2B? Won't you then think YB is being further squeezed out? Or what if YB's new larger barges use 2C? Would that be a great idea? I still fall back on the solution that another breakwater is needed at the entrance to prevent swells to be entering into the harbor to begin with.
The newest ro/ro barge that YB uses takes up about 2/3 of Pier 2B, so it is longer than Pier 2 (where 2C is) is wide. And I'm not sure the harbormaster or the Coast Guard would want YB to tie up where 2C is anyway because of the surges. The smaller YB barges take up about half of Pier 2B. Not much wiggle room on Pier 2B now. Here's the current YB schedule (http://www.htbyb.com/youngbrothers/docs/images/upload/Kahului%20Schedule%20July%202007.pdf) for Kahhului Harbor. Don't know if the largest barge comes to Maui 3x a week or not because I think from Maui it goes to Hilo, so smaller barges may come some of the time, too.

If they got rid of NCL then there would be more than enough room for everybody. NCL is currently in port 6 days a week; that will go down to 4 days a week when one of the NCL boats is taken off the run and heads for Europe next year.

Another breakwater where? Outside the channel to the harbor itself? I think they would have to dredge as well as create a breakwater to do that. If they're going to do that, they might as well develop the west side of the harbor where the public boat launch is and dredge over there to give HSF and NCL passengers a real passenger terminal and adequate space for parking.

The problem, of course, is finding the money to do the improvements. The Master Plan for Kahului Harbor in 2030 is supposed to be looking at these alternatives. I would prefer moving NCL and HSF completely away from Kahului Harbor, keep Kahului Harbor as the working harbor for Matson, YB and PASHA and have a second deep water harbor on Maui for all passenger activities. It's crazy that even Kauai has more than one place where large boats can dock. (Nawiliwili and Port Allen). If Kahului Harbor is destroyed by a tsunami or other disaster, Maui will truly be SOL as far as being able to get critical supplies by ocean. Lahaina is too shallow for the barges. Mala Wharf is a possibility since it used to be used by the Navy during WW2 to let sailors off from the destroyers for shore leave so the water should be deep enough to allow ferries to dock there. But the pier itself really dilapidated and neglected and has to be rehabbed to be safe. And Maui can't really wait until 2030 for the harbor improvements.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

A breakwater off the mouth of the harbor, effectively blocking incoming waves.

What's more expensive? Developing Kahului Harbor or building out a second harbor for the island?

And worst case scenario if indeed Kahului Harbor is destroyed, Mulberry harbours. :D

[Miulang]

A breakwater off the mouth of the harbor, effectively blocking incoming waves.

What's more expensive? Developing Kahului Harbor or building out a second harbor for the island?

And worst case scenario if indeed Kahului Harbor is destroyed, Mulberry harbours. :D
I don't know the answer; that's what the EIS that Belt Collins is doing for Kahului Harbor is supposed to determine: If it makes sense to continue to try to cram more services into Kahului Harbor. But whatever is finally decided, Maui can't wait until 2030.

For disaster recovery purposes, it makes more sense to have a second harbor somewhere else on the island.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/11/16/international/i105424S99.DTL&tsp=1

While Hawaii's anti-Superferry crowd is concerned that one new boat might bump into a humpback whale, the Japanese have just set out on a mission to intentionally kill and sashimi up to 50 humpbacks.

The Japanese whalers left with a brass band playing "popeye the sailor man".

Interesting.

[TuNnL]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/11/16/international/i105424S99.DTL&tsp=1

While Hawaii's anti-Superferry crowd is concerned that one new boat might bump into a humpback whale, the Japanese have just set out on a mission to intentionally kill and sashimi up to 50 humpbacks.Thanks for that, Kamu. Your article truly puts the “whale debate” in perspective. Here’s what Greenpeace (http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/fearing-us-reaction-japanese) has to say:

An opinion poll carried out in Japan by the Nippon Research Centre, in June 2006, showed that 95 per cent of Japanese people never or rarely eat whale meat. More than two-thirds of Japanese do not support whaling on the high seas.Hmmm... once again, it’s a corporation vs. the people. Another battle for Kaua‘i/Maui environmentalists to join? :eek:

[Leo Lakio]

Oh, and don't forget to pretend that you never saw this reply. What a convenient way to ignore those pesky little facts.
:rolleyes:
Lika, that's why I ignore these "lame" rantings from 2500 miles away. A case of half-truths and selective "evidence." No credibility at all.So, is using the "ignore" function a good thing or a bad thing?

:p

(This is NOT a real question, you understand...nor does it require a real answer.)

[LikaNui]

So, is using the "ignore" function a good thing or a bad thing? :p (This is NOT a real question, you understand...nor does it require a real answer.) Actually, it IS a real question and deserves a real answer... which is that a certain person's supposed use of the Ignore function allows her to avoid answering hard questions and facing hard facts. So to her the Ignore function is a good thing, but to everyone who wants to see real answers and a fair discussion, it's a bad thing.

[oceanpacific]

So, is using the "ignore" function a good thing or a bad thing?

:p

(This is NOT a real question, you understand...nor does it require a real answer.)

I don't use the IGNORE function. I just "ignore" their posts ...............

[Menehune Man]

A Great friend of mine's is coming from the mainland and I have us booked on the Superferry 12/06! I'm goin' to Maui! Also got the hotel(Maui Seaside) and rental car(Alamo) reserved already too! Will head back here to Oahu on 12/08. Really excited 'bout this. Okay so I'm not sailin' to Maui this time...
but still going by boat! HaHa!

[Miulang]

A Great friend of mine's is coming from the mainland and I have us booked on the Superferry 12/06! I'm goin' to Maui! Also got the hotel(Maui Seaside) and rental car(Alamo) reserved already too! Will head back here to Oahu on 12/08. Really excited 'bout this. Okay so I'm not sailin' to Maui this time...
but still going by boat! HaHa!
You could walk to your hotel from the ferry terminal!:D

You can even wave at the ferry when it leaves Kahului from your room if it's facing north. Next time for a better deal on cars, use Aloha Car Rental. You can get kamaaina rates from them (and they are cheaper than any of the nationals because the cars are not the current year models).

PM OggBoy and see if you can meet up with him. I think he still works in Kaahumanu Center up the street.

Miulang

[Miulang]

I don't use the IGNORE function. I just "ignore" their posts ...............
If you "ignore" my posts, why do you bother commenting on them, hmmm?:rolleyes:

Miulang

[Konaguy]

Hey if Maui is not ready for HSF, the Big Island would gladly welcome HSF service to either Kawaihae or Hilo....Maui's loss is the Big Island's gain :)

New harbors are not cheap to build. Plus they require a EIS, which would increase the cost even more. Its a bit annoying you are preaching Maui needs this, Maui needs that
when you are not living or paying taxes here.

[Miulang]

Hey if Maui is not ready for HSF, the Big Island would gladly welcome HSF service to either Kawaihae or Hilo....Maui's loss is the Big Island's gain :)

New harbors are not cheap to build. Plus they require a EIS, which would increase the cost even more. Its a bit annoying you are preaching Maui needs this, Maui needs that
when you are not living or paying taxes here.
Kawaihae is going to need a new pier too, isn't it? And it's not just ME who's saying something has to be done in Kahului Harbor. I am just reflecting what others who are residents of Maui County are saying, like my family who live there.

Aaron, Kahului Harbor IS having an EIS being done right now in preparation for 2030. It should be ready sometime next fall, before the EIS for HSF, which isn't due until March, 2009. There's also supposed to be an EIS on the cruise industry too, that's due next fall.

Miulang

[mel]

She also does not pay income taxes and GET 24-7-365 either, like we do while actually living in Hawaii.

How's that upgrade to Kawaihae Harbor going? Aren't they supposed to be repairing the pier that got damaged by the earthquake last year? Maybe I ought to drive there this coming week since I'll be on the island.

[1stwahine]

I was on Kauai this weekend. Plenny Ohana I neba see foa many years. Loaded friends came from all ova the island to say farewell to my aunty, Avelina Asuncion. She taught at Wilcox Elementary School and also lectured at Kauai Community College.

I randomly went around and asked about the Superyferry. :D

Not one gave a negative remark.

Whereva I went...Supermarkets, Kauai Veteran Hall, Airport, etc. etc.. it was the same...everybody wants the SUPERFERRY!:D

I no kid you!:p

Auntie Lynn

[LikaNui]

I am just reflecting what others who are residents of Maui County are saying, like my family who live there. That's a misstatement. You are reflecting what SOME others are saying, but they are clearly the minority.
But we're used to those kind of misstatements.
We loved it when you accused SuperFerry of not having WiFi but when I proved mere hours later that they did, you took credit for them doing it! (Even though WiFi capabilities had been listed on their website for ages.)
We loved it when you said Maui's farmers hated the SuperFerry, but I proved they strongly and collectively supported it.
And then there was the Hawaii Canoe Club, which did NOT come out against the SuperFerry.
Yeah, we're used to your misstatements.
We just read your posts and go :rolleyes: and then we go :p.

[kamuelakea]

You know what is really sad? The whole EIS thingy has become a tool of the left wing nuts to simply obstruct for the sake of obstructing.

Lawyer types will know the details but I do know that many of the federal laws on environmental issues mandate that you, the tax payers, must pay attorney fees anytime a lawsuit is "won".

EIS laws were created with good intentions. Hawaii is an environmental disaster in terms of how it has been developed (yes, by mostly the Plantation Asians). Yet the left wing extremists have taken the EIS as a tool. Not a tool to protect the environment, but a tool to simply make money for lawyers.

Thats what I think is the major drive behind the legal battles waged against the Superferry.

[oceanpacific]

Is Isaac Hall (not a plantation Asian) working "pro bono" against HSF? He might, but somehow, I doubt that ....................

[Menehune Man]

The thing is...
Maui is growing, it's the next "Oahu" so hopefully the powers that be create the infrastructure needed to support what's coming. Whether or not everyone wants that to happen, it will. So start doing what it'll take. Harbor issues and much more.

Kauai can take or leave it, though I think (though do not live there) that it would be helpful too?!

IMO

[dick]

The thing is...
Maui is growing, it's the next "Oahu" so hopefully the powers that be create the infrastructure needed to support what's coming. Whether or not everyone wants that to happen, it will. So start doing what it'll take. Harbor issues and much more.

Very true. It's been this way forever.

Like when the idea of double-decking Dairy Road was put forth... people wept (and I think we have an idea of who they were) and it was nixed -- stupidly of course, since that whole area is a nightmare traffic-wise (much worse ever than where the SF will disembark -- and don't try and sugar coat it, that intersection by FHB isn't the nightmare that the anti-ferrys make it out to be -- and yes I go to Maui and that FHB quite often, thank you, so I know what I'm talking about). Why? Because of the tourists pouring like wine from all the airliners flying into OGG. Why isn't anyone weeping about that? Imagine a straight shot out of the airport to the Puunene Ave. intersection. Oh wait. It's ugly. Well a bazillion tourists stuffed onto Dairy Rd. everyday is pretty ugly, too.

Then there was the infamous Haleakala Hwy. fisaco. Why weren't four lanes built earlier? Because people wept about how it would uglify the island and promote development upcountry. Well guess what, development happened anyway and now that road is grossly inadequate. And 20 years later they're finally building four lanes and a barrow pit.

Strange times, indeed.

[mel]

One of the most famous anti-development issues put forth by anti's is the Kahului Airport Runway extension. The enviros were against it because they were afraid of jumbo jets and all of the tourists that would bring. I think this was back in the 70s and 80s.

The runway extension never happened and to this day the main airport runway remains at 6,995 ft.

Guess what? Direct flights happened, more tourists came. Why? The airlines got smaller planes certified (many ETOPS jets today) to fly direct from the mainland and other points from outside Hawaii. Heck they still flew in jumbos even if they only had to be half full or whatever. I recall seeing DC-10's in Maui back in the day.... About the only plane that never landed in Maui was the Boeing 747.

The Boeing 767, 757 and 737 long range series are quite common there as well as to most of the other major airports around the state. Tourists come to the neighbor islands directly more today than ever because of the smaller long range jets. Don't need no runway extension to do that and tourism still increased 10 fold from "back in the day".

Bottom line is you can't stop progress!

[Konaguy]

Kawaihae is going to need a new pier too, isn't it?

There hasn't been a final decision made if they'll build that new pier. It is very possible that HSF will use the existing pier facilities at Kawaihae.

The HDOT is in the process of getting reimbursed for the EQ damage to the
existing piers to get them fixed.

[Konaguy]

How's that upgrade to Kawaihae Harbor going? Aren't they supposed to be repairing the pier that got damaged by the earthquake last year? Maybe I ought to drive there this coming week since I'll be on the island.

I inquired with the HDOT recently about the progress in fixing the EQ damagedKawaihae Harbor piers. They are in the final stages of getting reimbursed for
the EQ damage to the piers. There hasn't been a final decision made on the new proposed pier for HSF also.

[Konaguy]

One of the most famous anti-development issues put forth by anti's is the Kahului Airport Runway extension. The enviros were against it because they were afraid of jumbo jets and all of the tourists that would bring. I think this was back in the 70s and 80s.

The runway extension never happened and to this day the main airport runway remains at 6,995 ft.

Guess what? Direct flights happened, more tourists came. Why? The airlines got smaller planes certified (many ETOPS jets today) to fly direct from the mainland and other points from outside Hawaii. Heck they still flew in jumbos even if they only had to be half full or whatever. I recall seeing DC-10's in Maui back in the day.... About the only plane that never landed in Maui was the Boeing 747.

The Boeing 767, 757 and 737 long range series are quite common there as well as to most of the other major airports around the state. Tourists come to the neighbor islands directly more today than ever because of the smaller long range jets. Don't need no runway extension to do that and tourism still increased 10 fold from "back in the day".

Bottom line is you can't stop progress!

Issac Hall was involved in blocking the lengthing Kahului Airport's runway. But nonetheless the amount of flights to Maui significantly increased. The biggest plane they fly to Maui is the 777. But on the return flight to ORD it has to stop in Kona because the plane is too heavy to takeoff .

I think I recall a political leader landed a 747 on Maui once awhile back. But it was probably not fully loaded.

[Leo Lakio]

when you are not living or paying taxes here.She also does not pay income taxes and GET 24-7-365 either, like we do while actually living in Hawaii.This kind of comment continues to irk me whenever I see it. There are a number of us non-Island residents who contribute to this board, and who hold and express opinions on matters that are part of life in Hawai`i. Some of us have family there who are affected by these issues. Some of us may live there at some point in the future, much as was the case for some of you ex-Mainlanders who moved there in the past.

Last I checked, we were ALL welcome to participate ... and just as welcome to have our points shot to pieces. Fine, shoot down the opinions with which you disagree, or ignore them in whatever fashion you wish. But please stop telling us that we're not entitled to contribute to HT (unless you are the board's owner.)

[joshuatree]

One of the most famous anti-development issues put forth by anti's is the Kahului Airport Runway extension. The enviros were against it because they were afraid of jumbo jets and all of the tourists that would bring. I think this was back in the 70s and 80s.

The runway extension never happened and to this day the main airport runway remains at 6,995 ft.

Guess what? Direct flights happened, more tourists came. Why? The airlines got smaller planes certified (many ETOPS jets today) to fly direct from the mainland and other points from outside Hawaii. Heck they still flew in jumbos even if they only had to be half full or whatever. I recall seeing DC-10's in Maui back in the day.... About the only plane that never landed in Maui was the Boeing 747.

The Boeing 767, 757 and 737 long range series are quite common there as well as to most of the other major airports around the state. Tourists come to the neighbor islands directly more today than ever because of the smaller long range jets. Don't need no runway extension to do that and tourism still increased 10 fold from "back in the day".

Bottom line is you can't stop progress!

That's a very good example. The enviros may have won the battle on the runway extension but it was a Pyrrhic victory. As you've stated, more tourists than ever go to Maui direct now and the shorter runway decreases the safety factor. That's not a victory but rather a defeat.

It's also funny how the very people who complain about the increasing progress on Maui are the ones who benefit the most. I'm sure many Mauians appreciate the direct flights to the mainland rather than having to do a transfer on Oahu.

If Maui really wants to avoid becoming another Oahu, they should be the ones who need to be building rail NOW, not when their roads are 4 lanes across and bumper to bumper traffic.

[joshuatree]

This kind of comment continues to irk me whenever I see it. There are a number of us non-Island residents who contribute to this board, and who hold and express opinions on matters that are part of life in Hawai`i. Some of us have family there who are affected by these issues. Some of us may live there at some point in the future, much as was the case for some of you ex-Mainlanders who moved there in the past.

Last I checked, we were ALL welcome to participate ... and just as welcome to have our points shot to pieces. Fine, shoot down the opinions with which you disagree, or ignore them in whatever fashion you wish. But please stop telling us that we're not entitled to contribute to HT (unless you are the board's owner.)

I think you're just seeing some backlash because certain posts involve a lot of media spin and lack of solid facts.

[Miulang]

It's also funny how the very people who complain about the increasing progress on Maui are the ones who benefit the most. I'm sure many Mauians appreciate the direct flights to the mainland rather than having to do a transfer on Oahu.

If Maui really wants to avoid becoming another Oahu, they should be the ones who need to be building rail NOW, not when their roads are 4 lanes across and bumper to bumper traffic.\
Actually, I think a rail system would be good to connect South Maui to West Maui especially. I don't know if the terrain over the pali would allow for it, though, without it costing as much as Mufi's "train to nowhere" will. And a spur connecting Central Maui to the airport is something I would definitely use. Places like Boston have it down to a science. You can get from downtown Boston to Logan by subway. From the subway station, you take another shuttle right to the door of your concourse, and it takes about a half hour instead of sitting in traffic trying to get through the tunnel for more than an hour.

Seattle's light rail system will also within about 2 years have an airport stop. We already have commuter trains that run from the north into Seattle and from the south into Seattle.

On Maui, Haleakala Hwy coming down from Pukalani with that reversible lane during rush hour is absurd and dangerous. People driving up and down regularly go faster than the speed limit. When I stay up there, I usually take Omaopio Rd to Pulehu Rd and bypass Haleakala Hwy completely. Lots of residents do the same thing. Every now and then there are fatalities on Pulehu Rd because people also drive too fast on that 2-lane road and miss some gnarly turns in the road.

They've been talking about a new road from upcountry down to Wailea for years. That also would be a good idea because lots of workers in South Maui live upcountry and it takes forever to get to Kihei now. Would a rail spur cost as much or more than a new highway? Don't know. Maybe an EIS would be able to determine that. It'll be interesting to see what the next iteration of the General Plan for Maui will end up looking like.

Dairy Rd is a total disaster. Dick's right, it's worse than the Puunene Ave. intersection, but there are ways to get around it, sorta.

There used to be a connector road between the main airport road and Hana Hwy that went towards Paia (the road used to be right before the main airport entrance). I think you still can get to the heli and private jet terminals using that road, but the part that connects to Hana Hwy got closed off after 9/11, which is why everybody now dumps onto Dairy Rd. If I'm coming from the airport to go to Wailuku, I never go via Dairy Rd. I just kinda sneak over through the Kahului Industrial area and behind Kaahumanu Shopping Center and come out by MCC. Wouldn't advise a person unfamiliar with driving in that area to do that, though, because "Dream City" is a nightmare the way the streets are laid out! Cul de sacs up the ying yang (I've found a few myself as I learned how to navigate through that area :D ).

I'm all for public transportation, so you can't lump me in with the environmental whackos who want to stop progress completely. People who haven't experienced public transportation on the East Coast where they have done it since the 1900s just don't realize its benefits.

I think there should be an interisland ferry system too, but not this particular company's idea of it or the temporary facilities that have been set up on the Neighbor Islands for passengers to wait in. If Nawiliwili, Kahului and Kawaihae could each have facilities similar to but smaller than the $5.3 million permanent facility that Honolulu Harbor has for ferry passengers, I'd say, bring it on, because that would mean that at least some proactive planning had been done, instead of the current slapdash attempt by the DOT.

People in the western part of the US (that includes Hawaii) are still too tied to their cars to fully appreciate what a carefully planned public transportation system can offer. But as the price of gas inches toward $4.00 per gallon, I think more people are realizing that they need to think differently about how to move around, whether it's carpooling or taking a bus or train.

Miulang

[Miulang]

I think you're just seeing some backlash because certain posts involve a lot of media spin and lack of solid facts.
I would say that the "spin" is coming from both sides of the issue!;)

[helen]

I think there should be an interisland ferry system too, but not this particular company's idea of it or the temporary facilities that have been set up on the Neighbor Islands for passengers to wait in. If Nawiliwili, Kahului and Kawaihae could each have facilities similar to but smaller than the $5.3 million permanent facility that Honolulu Harbor has for ferry passengers, I'd say, bring it on, because that would mean that at least some proactive planning had been done, instead of the current slapdash attempt by the DOT.
I haven't been to any of the facilities on Oahu, Kauai or Maui so I don't know the status or quaility of these facilities and you have made a few posts to these threads about the quaility of the port facilities on Maui. All I can say this, please give this issue some slack. The SuperFerry service has only sailed two or three times since being here in August. No one knows at this point in time if the service will actually work in the long run or not. Or the neighbor island ports being used are the apporiate ports to use.

So the smart move at this point in time is for the temporary facilities. If after a year or two of sizeable traffic thru the port makes for a permanent facility feasible but nothing has been done about it, then sure your agruement has merit.

[joshuatree]

I would say that the "spin" is coming from both sides of the issue!;)


More so from one side than the other. That's not a biased statement, that's just mere observation.

[LikaNui]

Let's get back to the SuperFerry. Maui road transportation issues can have its own thread, if anyone wants one.
From this BREAKING NEWS item (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Nov/19/br/br7035421896.html) on the Advertiser's website:
Maui judge lifts Hawaii Superferry traffic rule

A Maui judge today lifted his previous order that only two vehicles per minute would be allowed to exit from the Hawaii Superferry site at Kahului Harbor.
(...)
August today said he would drop the rule, ordering the state Department of Transportation instead to provide three trained personnel to manage the traffic flow based "on real-time conditions." The 350-foot vessel is due to resume Maui service Dec. 1. The ferry will depart Honolulu at 6:30 a.m. and arrive at Kahului Harbor three hours later. The departure time back to Honolulu is 11 a.m.
The court case over the ferry's potential traffic impacts was initiated by the Maui Tomorrow Foundation, the Kahului Harbor Coalition and Friends of Haleakala National Park, who disputed an environmental assessment of a group of projects contained in the DOT's Kahului Harbor Master Plan 2025. One of the projects already completed is a bridge over a drainage canal that will be used by vehicles going to and from the ferry.
(...)

:)

[joshuatree]

I haven't been to any of the facilities on Oahu, Kauai or Maui so I don't know the status or quaility of these facilities and you have made a few posts to these threads about the quaility of the port facilities on Maui. All I can say this, please give this issue some slack. The SuperFerry service has only sailed two or three times since being here in August. No one knows at this point in time if the service will actually work in the long run or not. Or the neighbor island ports being used are the apporiate ports to use.

So the smart move at this point in time is for the temporary facilities. If after a year or two of sizeable traffic thru the port makes for a permanent facility feasible but nothing has been done about it, then sure your agruement has merit.

Indeed, time needs to be give to see if the HSF will be a permanent fixture or not. Otherwise, building out facilities would be a waste. The one on Oahu was built years before HSF came into the picture. It was always the state's intention to try and draw a ferry operator to Hawaiian waters.

[Miulang]

Indeed, time needs to be give to see if the HSF will be a permanent fixture or not. Otherwise, building out facilities would be a waste. The one on Oahu was built years before HSF came into the picture. It was always the state's intention to try and draw a ferry operator to Hawaiian waters.
Then they'd better figure out how to get that barge in Kahului Harbor tethered better, and soon. There's a storm coming in that is expected to produce 25 ft swells coming from the north, which will definitely do some damage to Pier 2C if the barge gets loose again.

Miulang

[Konaguy]

This kind of comment continues to irk me whenever I see it. There are a number of us non-Island residents who contribute to this board, and who hold and express opinions on matters that are part of life in Hawai`i. Some of us have family there who are affected by these issues. Some of us may live there at some point in the future, much as was the case for some of you ex-Mainlanders who moved there in the past.

Last I checked, we were ALL welcome to participate ... and just as welcome to have our points shot to pieces. Fine, shoot down the opinions with which you disagree, or ignore them in whatever fashion you wish. But please stop telling us that we're not entitled to contribute to HT (unless you are the board's owner.)

Whoa, lets rewind here. I'm not saying you don't have the right to post here. It is when a certain poster insists that a pier needs to built for example it really irks me. Facilities like piers cost a lot of money. Which the taxpayers of this state would have to pay for, not a certain out of state resident.

I would be more irked if this certain poster was trying influence things here on the Big Island. Especially since I was born and raised here.Since she is trying to do it only on Maui, I tolerate it.. to a point.

[joshuatree]

Then they'd better figure out how to get that barge in Kahului Harbor tethered better, and soon. There's a storm coming in that is expected to produce 25 ft swells coming from the north, which will definitely do some damage to Pier 2C if the barge gets loose again.

Miulang

It sounds to me 2C is pretty useless because any other ship or barge would encounter the same issue when there's a storm, is that correct? Better get that harbor draft moving quicker.

[Miulang]

It sounds to me 2C is pretty useless because any other ship or barge would encounter the same issue when there's a storm, is that correct? Better get that harbor draft moving quicker.
You got it, and it's not a Toyota. What's really bad is if that barge gets loose again (or actually if anything gets loose in that harbor) during a storm, the Coast Guard will have to be the ones to corral it and then the tugs have to try to secure it someplace before it can do damage to the piers or other watercraft. It's really kinda ugly. But the EIS for Kahului Harbor, which is separate from the one called for in Act 2, isn't expected to be completed until Fall of next year, and I think even when the draft's been done, there has to be public comment so it's going to drag on for awhile.

Miulang

[oggboy]

I going holo holo Oahu and go eat gooood kine chinese food for a change then I going go visit da ohana in Waimanalo. No worry I only going shopping small kine, promise no take what no belong back home. I know I not the only one waiting for the HSF.
OGGBOY

[Miulang]

I going holo holo Oahu and go eat gooood kine chinese food for a change then I going go visit da ohana in Waimanalo. No worry I only going shopping small kine, promise no take what no belong back home. I know I not the only one waiting for the HSF.
OGGBOY
So what you going take them for omiyage? Home Maid Bakery kine stuff or Krispy Kreme?

Miulang

[zztype]

So what you going take them for omiyage? Home Maid Bakery kine stuff or Krispy Kreme?

Miulang

'Opihi and river rocks. :D

[LikaNui]

So nobody has anything to say about this major breaking news item that I posted this morning?!?:

From this BREAKING NEWS item (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Nov/19/br/br7035421896.html) on the Advertiser's website:
Maui judge lifts Hawaii Superferry traffic rule

A Maui judge today lifted his previous order that only two vehicles per minute would be allowed to exit from the Hawaii Superferry site at Kahului Harbor.
(...)
August today said he would drop the rule, ordering the state Department of Transportation instead to provide three trained personnel to manage the traffic flow based "on real-time conditions." The 350-foot vessel is due to resume Maui service Dec. 1. The ferry will depart Honolulu at 6:30 a.m. and arrive at Kahului Harbor three hours later. The departure time back to Honolulu is 11 a.m.
The court case over the ferry's potential traffic impacts was initiated by the Maui Tomorrow Foundation, the Kahului Harbor Coalition and Friends of Haleakala National Park, who disputed an environmental assessment of a group of projects contained in the DOT's Kahului Harbor Master Plan 2025. One of the projects already completed is a bridge over a drainage canal that will be used by vehicles going to and from the ferry.
(...)


:)

[joshuatree]

So nobody has anything to say about this major breaking news item that I posted this morning?!?:

I'm all for it, having a staff is much more flexible and reasonable as they can adjust to changing conditions. I don't pretend to know Maui's traffic condition so I didn't have much to comment. :D

[Miulang]

'Opihi and river rocks. :D
Maybe the 'opihi, but it would cost too much to put river rocks in your luggage, since there's a 50 lb limit per bag now. :p You'd be able to smuggle enough to make one manini imu with what you could fit into a suitcase.

[MixedPlateBroker]

So nobody has anything to say about this major breaking news item that I posted this morning?!?:

Hmm ... I wonder if they need any on-call people for those positions? I was JPO captain in sixth grade.:p

[kamuelakea]

So what you going take them for omiyage? Home Maid Bakery kine stuff or Krispy Kreme?

Miulang

Krispy Kreme of course. Its Maui 2007. A new dawn. For better or for worse. For me? Worse.

[oggboy]

Komoda Bakery creme puff`s, mo betta than Krispy Kreme. And no! you not getting river rocks, already sharing plenty sand...:D

[Miulang]

Komoda Bakery creme puff`s, mo betta than Krispy Kreme. And no! you not getting river rocks, already sharing plenty sand...:D
Excellent taste. Take some guava jelly and passion fruit jelly filled malasadas too. Those are onolicious.

Miulang

[TuNnL]

Excellent taste. Take some guava jelly and passion fruit jelly filled malasadas too. Those are onolicious.Okay, where is this bakery again? My mouth is watering just thinking about it. :p

[Miulang]

Okay, where is this bakery again? My mouth is watering just thinking about it. :p
It's right in the middle of Makawao town (http://local.yahoo.com/details?id=21873655)on Baldwin Ave. in a nondescript old building on the right hand side as you're headed up towards Casanova Restaurant. Get there early, though, because the cream puffs sell out early (you can sometimes get some that have been frozen, though). They're not open on Sunday and I think they take a vacation in between Christmas and New Year.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

Just this week I was planning our New Year's getaway (to flee the smoke with my asthmatic kids), and looked up Superferry fares to Maui thanks to the $29 sale ($39 for the dates we had in mind). And, indeed, even with reasonable airline fares of $39-$59 (the $19 fares were sold out and didn't extend into 2008 like our trip would), it was cheaper to take the Superferry and our own van versus taking a plane and renting a car for the weekend. Cheaper by about $150, actually.

Unfortunately, we couldn't find any place to stay on Maui, without paying over $200 a night (a family of five has limited hotel options, and Maui has the stricted vacation rental rules in the state). So, we ended up returning to the Big Island and a vacation house in Volcano.

I can't wait 'til the next Superferry vessel starts serving Kawaihae. A more perfect way for this local family to escape and reconnect with its roots there will not be!

[oggboy]

Just this week I was planning our New Year's getaway (to flee the smoke with my asthmatic kids), and looked up Superferry fares to Maui thanks to the $29 sale ($39 for the dates we had in mind). And, indeed, even with reasonable airline fares of $39-$59 (the $19 fares were sold out and didn't extend into 2008 like our trip would), it was cheaper to take the Superferry and our own van versus taking a plane and renting a car for the weekend. Cheaper by about $150, actually.

Unfortunately, we couldn't find any place to stay on Maui, without paying over $200 a night (a family of five has limited hotel options, and Maui has the stricted vacation rental rules in the state). So, we ended up returning to the Big Island and a vacation house in Volcano.

I can't wait 'til the next Superferry vessel starts serving Kawaihae. A more perfect way for this local family to escape and reconnect with its roots there will not be!

Try checking with Maui Seaside our Maui Beach Hotel. I think your family would save more cause everything is in that area.

[MixedPlateBroker]

We stayed at a bed 'n breakfast for our last trip to Maui. Cheaper and more convenient than any hotel.:D

PM for deets.

[Beachboy]

...it's all over! Once again, the almighty dollar has ruled over consideration for the enviornment! Oh yeah, sure you're gonna tell me all the necessary testing has been conducted already on behalf of this big 'eye sore'. But I beg to differ. Seems that the majority of people who favor this "Clump of ugly" are the same people who throw their hat in the ring for Walmart.

Once again Isle residents have rushed into this without much consideration, and of course the majority of the people supporting this "war machine" are on Oahu! Honolulu residents flocked to the pier when the HSF first set sail a few months back. Hoping to get a view of what they already have determined as their God sent mode of cheap transportation that will link them up to the outer islands at a cheap cost. Once again, like Walmart, the HSF will start off with reasonable prices, but will slowly raise the cost of their fares once, maybe twice a year!? Yet the majority of the outer islands don't support this eye sore!! Why? We don't need Oahu's opala all over our outer islands, nor do we need the "road rage" which is so common on Oahu.

I give it one year after Honolulu to Hilo operations starts up. This will be the time that Oahu residents will revolted because of HSF. In the rush to make money, these jerks are doing nothing to secure to ecology of each island. So I say common and visit us in Puna! We'd love for you people to take back our Fire Ants & Croqui Frogs in the under carriage of your SUV's & mini vans. Once our Fire Ants have set up shop in Honolulu, then and perhaps then will our state Gov. get serious about radication of these problems!?
I promise you this, once the 'Fire Ants' get established in Honolulu it's all over. The dense population combined with these little pest will reek havoc on the capital city.

[Menehune Man]

Funny (?) how in so many instances, it's an "Us" against "Them" attitude.
In this case it's "Outer Islands" against "Oahu".

Look, there are more and more people populating this entire earth.
Whether or not you like it, we truly are all in this together.
Which means that population growth and movement is going to continue.

Don't feel that "You" are a part of it? Wake up!

[zztype]

Oh, brother. Not again.

[LikaNui]

Oh, brother. Not again. Amen to that. There are so very many ridiculous statements in Beachboy's post that it would be kinda fun (and so very easy) to shoot them all down, but I've got better things to do today.
I'm taking my boat out to the sandbar. :)

[Leo Lakio]

Oh yeah, sure you're gonna tell me all the necessary testing has been conducted already on behalf of this big 'eye sore'.Actually, I doubt even the staunchest supporters here will tell you that.

The EA wasn't done earlier, simply because the State told HSF that they didn't need to do it. Now, since it will be required, the recent battle was over whether or not HSF could operate during the testing period - and the recent rulings have said "yes." So the Ferry will operate AND the EA/tests will be conducted.

And there's a whole buncha threads on this already - so expect that this conversation will likely be moved over there before long (without requiring an EA. :D )

[tutusue]

[...]And there's a whole buncha threads on this already - so expect that this conversation will likely be moved over there before long (without requiring an EA. :D )
Yes...thank you...altho' I'm a bit curious if BB had remained on Oahu instead of moving to the BI, would he still feel the same way. <shrug>

[Leo Lakio]

I'm a bit curious if BB had remained on Oahu instead of moving to the BI, would he still feel the same way.I'm sure he'll let us know, but he's been an island-hopper for quite a while (I recall him mentioning living on Maui in the '70s.)

[Konaguy]

Oh, brother. Not again.

I second and third that statement. For the record, Big Island service won't be going to Hilo. But instead it will be going to Kawaihae.

One more thing, the service won't commence until 2009. Which is plenty of time to get all the bugs out of the service.

[mel]

Why is a new thread being started on this topic? Sheesh. Merge merge merge....

[Menehune Man]

A Great friend of mine's is coming from the mainland and I have us booked on the Superferry 12/06! I'm goin' to Maui! Also got the hotel(Maui Seaside) and rental car(Alamo) reserved already too! Will head back here to Oahu on 12/08. Really excited 'bout this. Okay so I'm not sailin' to Maui this time...
but still going by boat! HaHa!

It's a darn good thing I picked the 6th!
The SuperFerry has rescheduled the restart date till then and even if it doesn't, I'll get flights over since the Hotel and car are booked already. Here's a link to the story in this morning's Advertiser.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071127/NEWS01/711270346/1001/

[Miulang]

It's a darn good thing I picked the 6th!
The SuperFerry has rescheduled the restart date till then and even if it doesn't, I'll get flights over since the Hotel and car are booked already. Here's a link to the story in this morning's Advertiser.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071127/NEWS01/711270346/1001/

Yes, this is just a continuation of the "bad karma" this enterprise has experienced since the beginning. But, better to be safe than sorry. Wouldn't want anyone or their car to end up in Kahului Harbor because that barge broke loose again.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Yes, this is just a continuation of the "bad karma" this enterprise has experienced since the beginning. But, better to be safe than sorry. Wouldn't want anyone or their car to end up in Kahului Harbor because that barge broke loose again.

Bad karma because they want to make sure there's enough of buffer time for the repairs? What about in the past when other marine companies have experienced bollard damage? Is it karma too? :rolleyes:

[Miulang]

Bad karma because they want to make sure there's enough of buffer time for the repairs? What about in the past when other marine companies have experienced bollard damage? Is it karma too? :rolleyes:

The bollards have been replaced and the boats/barges have been tied down securely afterwards, and it didn't take a week, either.:rolleyes:


Miulang

[Miulang]

Bad karma because they want to make sure there's enough of buffer time for the repairs? What about in the past when other marine companies have experienced bollard damage? Is it karma too? :rolleyes:

The bollards have been replaced and the boats/barges have been tied down securely immediately afterwards, and it didn't take a week, either.:rolleyes:

There actually could be other reasons for the delay, such as the fact that the Coast Guard still hasn't issued its official extension of the security zone (if that's what they intend to do) which must be published in the Federal Register, and they probably told HSF not to start on Dec. 1 because there will be demonstrations scheduled on that day plus now on Dec. 6.


Miulang

[joshuatree]

The bollards have been replaced and the boats/barges have been tied down securely immediately afterwards, and it didn't take a week, either.:rolleyes:

There actually could be other reasons for the delay, such as the fact that the Coast Guard still hasn't issued its official extension of the security zone (if that's what they intend to do) which must be published in the Federal Register, and they probably told HSF not to start on Dec. 1 because there will be demonstrations scheduled on that day plus now on Dec. 6.

Okay and what links can you point me to that states the bollards have been replaced already? The Advertiser link also stated that the barge suffered some damage from that surge. Either way, if you want to play conspiracy theorist, that's your right. I just find the constant harping rather tiring, the ship will sail. Then the market will decide if there is a need for this service or not. Simple as that. At the end of the day, an EA/EIS is nothing more than a piece of paper that will detail what's pretty obvious to anyone with a brain, this ship does no more or no less harm than what the other ships in the waters have been doing.

[Leo Lakio]

Is it karma too? :rolleyes:Well...if you believe in the concept of karma, it explains just about everything. ;)

[zztype]

Eh, anybody else booked on the Dec. 6 run to Maui? I need to talk to you!

Please send me a PM if you are booked on the inaugural run.

Mahalo,

Blaine

[mel]

Mr. Garibaldi will be speaking at the monthly Small Business Hawaii breakfast (http://www.smallbusinesshawaii.com/2007/Nov2007-1.html) this coming Thursday morning, November 29.

[Menehune Man]

Eh, anybody else booked on the Dec. 6 run to Maui? I need to talk to you!

Please send me a PM if you are booked on the inaugural run.

Mahalo,

Blaine

Right on Buddy!

I'll see you aboard and even buy ya a coffee.

Aloha,
(From a real local haole, HaHa!)
Jeff aka.-Menehune Man

[Menehune Man]

Here's a link to the complete onboard menu.
Should be a pretty comfortable 3hr tour. Where've I heard that before?

http://www.hawaiisuperferry.com/the-experience/dining-and-entertainment/onboard-menu.html

Or...
"A simple, economical upgrade to your ticket allows you to enjoy the deluxe Hāhālua Lounge, where you will be greeted by a welcome-aboard drink, a pupu, complimentary coffee and the lounge’s dedicated crew. Oversized leather seats, special lounge tables and eight LCD flat-screen televisions enhance the environment.

Complimentary newspapers and board games round out the entertainment options. So sit back with a cold draft beer or wine, buy a delicious sandwich, and admire the stunning forward views. It’s the ultimate seagoing experience in the most beautiful islands on earth." (From the webpage)

Gotta love that name! Hāhālua Lounge.

[Leo Lakio]

Gotta love that name! HāhāluaThat's the Hawaiian name for a Manta Ray, isn't it?

[Menehune Man]

That's the Hawaiian name for a Manta Ray, isn't it?

Yes it is.
English word - Hawaiian word
manta ray - hahalua

Just sounded funny to me at the time?
I've got a Weird sense of humor, eh?!

[Leo Lakio]

I've got a Weird sense of humor, eh?!Something I count on, MM; we have it in common.

[Menehune Man]

It's a darn good thing I picked the 6th!
The SuperFerry has rescheduled the restart date till then and even if it doesn't, I'll get flights over since the Hotel and car are booked already. Here's a link to the story in this morning's Advertiser.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071127/NEWS01/711270346/1001/

I hope nothing delays the service past Dec. 6th.
If it does, they better give passengers ample warning!
Would hate to show up at the harbor early morning and be told...
that we're not sailing. Know what I mean?! :(

[Miulang]

I hope nothing delays the service past Dec. 6th.
If it does, they better give passengers ample warning!
Would hate to show up at the harbor early morning and be told...
that we're not sailing. Know what I mean?! :(
Your best bet is to check with the NOAA weather forecasts beginning on Monday. The 5-day forecasts are usually pretty accurate. The unfortunate thing is, even if it's blue skies in Hawaii, the swells that might be coming in from some storm further out in the Pacific can still impact Kahului Harbor. And the even more bummer part is because the boat leaves Honolulu so early in the morning, you might not know until you're enroute that the swells in the harbor are too dangerous to try to dock the boat in Kahului Harbor, in which case, they will probably turn around and head back to Honolulu.

They still don't have a permanent fix for the barge breaking from its mooring problem (like they think a winch system will help keep the barge from breaking away, but they haven't installed it yet or tested it).

Just an FYI: the swells that broke the cable the second time (yes, it's broken away twice already in the last month) were about 3 ft., so anything that size or larger coming from the north could cause problems with the barge.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Your best bet is to check with the NOAA weather forecasts beginning on Monday. No, his best bet is to call the SuperFerry directly the day before his trip. Their phones are currently open from 6am to 7pm, and the hours will expand as voyages begin.

The unfortunate thing is, even if it's blue skies in Hawaii, the swells that might be coming in from some storm further out in the Pacific can still impact Kahului Harbor. And the even more bummer part is because the boat leaves Honolulu so early in the morning, you might not know until you're enroute that the swells in the harbor are too dangerous to try to dock the boat in Kahului Harbor, in which case, they will probably turn around and head back to Honolulu.
Some things never change. :rolleyes:
And to even think that the ferry folks won't be in touch with the other harbors before they leave is nothing short of STUPID. They can contact their own people in each harbor, the harbormasters in each harbor, and the Coast Guard. For you to imply that they'd just take off without communicating is beyond ludicrous.
As usual.

:mad:

[Menehune Man]

Weather is always a concern upon the ocean. Especially the size vessels I'm usually aboard. But a "SuperFerry" that constantly has it's service at the mercy of Mother Ocean will have dependability problems. I would think?

Hmmm...

[Miulang]

Weather is always a concern upon the ocean. Especially the size vessels I'm usually aboard. But a "SuperFerry" that constantly has it's service at the mercy of Mother Ocean will have dependability problems. I would think?

Hmmm...
I hope not!:D I mean, WestPac Express, which is a very similar design and configuration as HSF, has been used in Okinawa for awhile, and the seas around Okinawa get pretty rough in the winter time too, so hopefully, Austal has figured out how to solve dependability issues. The only one they probably haven't figured out (since the DoD doesn't really care about paint on Humvees) is ocean spray on customer cars, since the car deck is open at one end and exposed to spray from waves.

I hope too that passengers heed the advice of HSF about the ways to avoid seasickness. I've been in the middle of the Strait of Juan de Fuca a couple of times in a smaller catamaran (the Victoria Clipper) in high seas and wind, and while I did OK, lots of people around me didn't. The number of green faces increased exponentially as the ship pitched and rolled around. It was more fun than being on a roller coaster, with the waves splashing up against the ship's forward windows.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

.....The only one they probably haven't figured out (since the DoD doesn't really care about paint on Humvees) is ocean spray on customer cars, since the car deck is open at one end and exposed to spray from waves......

Um....I don't think Austal has any problems designing a ship that protects customer cars from ocean spray. I think HSF wanted the open front top design to provide ventilation because aren't pets supposed to stay in the car decks? If you take a look at this pic of MV Westpac Express, this ship has a closed top so none of the military equipment is exposed to ocean spray.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Westpac_Express_HSV-4676.jpg

[Miulang]

Um....I don't think Austal has any problems designing a ship that protects customer cars from ocean spray. I think HSF wanted the open front top design to provide ventilation because aren't pets supposed to stay in the car decks? If you take a look at this pic of MV Westpac Express, this ship has a closed top so none of the military equipment is exposed to ocean spray.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Westpac_Express_HSV-4676.jpg
Possibly, but if there are high seas and winds and with the wake that the boat generates, the cars parked at the back end of the boat might be exposed to the spray. All the BC ferries have car decks that are completely enclosed at both ends to prevent exposure to water or spray.

[joshuatree]

Possibly, but if there are high seas and winds and with the wake that the boat generates, the cars parked at the back end of the boat might be exposed to the spray. All the BC ferries have car decks that are completely enclosed at both ends to prevent exposure to water or spray.

What about these BC Ferries?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mayne_Queen.jpg

[Miulang]

What about these BC Ferries?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mayne_Queen.jpg

The ones that travel on the outside of Vancouver Island (like between Mainland BC and the Queen Charlotte Islands) are completely covered because the Hecate Strait between Prince Rupert and Skidegate is very very rough because it's so shallow. These littler car ferries are only used for very short runs. There's one that runs from Skidegate across a very short channel to another one of the Queen Charlottes that's like that...open deck, no real passenger facilities. The bigger car ferries like the Queen of Prince Rupert (http://www.geocities.com/ferries_bc/profiles/bcf_qpr.html)are all covered. It's hard to tell from this picture, but the bow actually lifts up when the cars are being loaded onto and off the boat.

Miulang

[cynsaligia]

All the BC ferries have car decks that are completely enclosed at both ends to prevent exposure to water or spray.

What about these BC Ferries?





mill bay:
http://www.bcferries.com/files/images/fleet/Mill_Bayii.JPG

powell river queen:
http://www.bcferries.com/files/images/fleet/ks_PowellRiverQueensml1_380w.jpg

skeena queen:
http://www.bcferries.com/files/images/fleet/ks_Skeen_Q380w.jpg

[Miulang]

mill bay:
http://www.bcferries.com/files/images/fleet/Mill_Bayii.JPG

powell river queen:
http://www.bcferries.com/files/images/fleet/ks_PowellRiverQueensml1_380w.jpg

skeena queen:
http://www.bcferries.com/files/images/fleet/ks_Skeen_Q380w.jpg
The Skeena Queen runs in between Victoria and one of the Gulf Islands. That trip is about 35 minutes across sheltered water. The Powell River Queen runs between Quadra Is (one of the Gulf Islands) and Campbell River on the Mainland BC. The Mill Bay Ferry runs between Mill Bay and Brentwood on Vancouver Island. All these waters are fairly protected. The length of each trip would be more comparable to the Washington State ferries (the longest ride takes about an hour, between Bremerton and Seattle) than to HSF, which is travelling over open water.

[joshuatree]

The Skeena Queen runs in between Victoria and one of the Gulf Islands. That trip is about 35 minutes across sheltered water. The Powell River Queen runs between Quadra Is (one of the Gulf Islands) and Campbell River on the Mainland BC. The Mill Bay Ferry runs between Mill Bay and Brentwood on Vancouver Island. All these waters are fairly protected. The length of each trip would be more comparable to the Washington State ferries (the longest ride takes about an hour, between Bremerton and Seattle) than to HSF, which is travelling over open water.

But isn't the issue at hand the same, that customer cars are exposed to salt water and spray? That's what I was trying to point out.

As for HSF in rough waters, this is a recent pic of some new Chinese naval catamaran missile boats doing live fire exercises in waters north of the Philippines with a typhoon nearby. These boats are less than half the size of the HSF. They appear to hold their own in those sea conditions.

[zztype]

I've been out in 10-15 foot seas in a naval catamaran which was about 2/3 the size of the SuperFerry.

If the captain knows how to navigate open ocean swells, then the ride will be manageable. Those with ocean experience will comment on the smooth ride. Passengers not used to massive sea-state will get sick, no matter what.

Old salt like me: It's like a day at the office.

Suggestion to new ocean passengers: Start your seasickness treatment the night before you go. DO NOT WAIT UNTIL YOU'RE ON THE BOAT. It will be too late. You will be miserable. Longs has plenty to choose from on the motion sickness aisle.

Me? I'll eat a whole stack of fresh saltine crackers with a couple of strong cups of black coffee. Nothing else.

I've gone to sea many times using that remedy, including following all-weekend partying, barely able to walk aboard the ship. Saltines, coffee, off to sea I go. No problem at all.

Looks to be a fun day asea. Anchors aweigh!

[Menehune Man]

The design of HSF's catameran will handle the ocean swells and conditions around Hawaii just fine.

It was the Kahului Harbor dockage space that was mentioned as problematic.
Hope that issue can be dealt with?!

[Miulang]

But isn't the issue at hand the same, that customer cars are exposed to salt water and spray? That's what I was trying to point out.

As for HSF in rough waters, this is a recent pic of some new Chinese naval catamaran missile boats doing live fire exercises in waters north of the Philippines with a typhoon nearby. These boats are less than half the size of the HSF. They appear to hold their own in those sea conditions.
No, because the waters that those little Canadian car ferries and the Washington State ferries cross are very calm compared to the open waters of the channels around the islands of Hawaii.

I'm not saying that the boat will sink, but with the car deck being open at one end, the salt spray will kick up if the wind is whipping up froth on the ocean, and the wake from HSF going at 25 kts is going to be greater than a boat going 18 kts max speed.

Like I said, I've been in a passenger catamaran about half the size of HSF in the middle of the Strait of Juan de Fuca several times during bad storms, and when that sucker was rolling and going up and down, it was also cutting through some pretty rough swells and gale force winds, so it was going even slower than usual. It normally takes about 4 hours to get to Victoria from Seattle, but those trips were over 5 hours long.:eek:

Miulang

[Miulang]

The design of HSF's catameran will handle the ocean swells and conditions around Hawaii just fine.

It was the Kahului Harbor dockage space that was mentioned as problematic.
Hope that issue can be dealt with?!
I hope they find a temporary solution anyway to keep everybody safe. The only permanent solution is going to be to build a permanent terminal so cars and people can load and unload from the boat without needing that barge in the middle. Having the barge go one way and the boat going another way while the 2 are tied together with a north swell coming into the harbor is not going to be good for the boat or the barge, IMO.

Miulang

[sansei]

:( hi this is sansei and i have one question,may anyone remember 10 year's ago in Kauai when the Sea fearing which was like a Type of Hsf only it was somewhat of like a hydrofoil that they pulled up into Kauai's water and caused a Big Commotion is that they didnt follow the judge's rule's and that they caused a Big ruckus in kauai 10 Year's ago and this is why Kauai people dont want the Hsf like the Sea fearing which was at the time a Hydrofoil which caused a Big Rucukus so This is the True reason Why Kauai people dont want Hsf in their water's like 10 Year's ago so I Thought to share this with everyone.this true story was once in Lee Cataluna's Updated news storie's so I Thought to share this with everyone.


well thank's for your time:(

[LikaNui]

I Thought to share this with everyone. (...) I Thought to share this with everyone. Sansei, next time you have a thought... just let it go. :rolleyes:

[joshuatree]

No, because the waters that those little Canadian car ferries and the Washington State ferries cross are very calm compared to the open waters of the channels around the islands of Hawaii.

I'm not saying that the boat will sink, but with the car deck being open at one end, the salt spray will kick up if the wind is whipping up froth on the ocean, and the wake from HSF going at 25 kts is going to be greater than a boat going 18 kts max speed.

Like I said, I've been in a passenger catamaran about half the size of HSF in the middle of the Strait of Juan de Fuca several times during bad storms, and when that sucker was rolling and going up and down, it was also cutting through some pretty rough swells and gale force winds, so it was going even slower than usual. It normally takes about 4 hours to get to Victoria from Seattle, but those trips were over 5 hours long.:eek:

Miulang

Calm waters or not, the cars are still exposed to ocean water and spray. Especially around winter time, it may not be massive swells, but don't tell me it's not windy. Riding a ferry in San Francisco Bay is pretty sheltered but it sure is windy and the water kicks up even on bright sunny days.

Also, cars are designed with rust in mind, that's why every manufacturer includes a rust warranty. Nothing a good car wash with flushing of the undercarriage won't take care of.

[tutusue]

[...]
Also, cars are designed with rust in mind, that's why every manufacturer includes a rust warranty. Nothing a good car wash with flushing of the undercarriage won't take care of.
Just what I was thinking! Every morning when I get in my car in Makaha there's a layer of salt spray on it. I always have to turn on the windshield wipers first thing!

[Menehune Man]

Phone Contact:
1-877-HI-FERRY (1-877-443-3779)

[infinitypro]

Eh, anybody else booked on the Dec. 6 run to Maui? I need to talk to you!

Please send me a PM if you are booked on the inaugural run.

Mahalo,

Blaine

I am hoping to get off of work, and experiencing the inaugural run from this end. Mentioned it to my supervisor...we'll see.

[Miulang]

Bad news.:( The swells in Kahului Harbor broke the mooring line (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Dec/03/br/br0236597814.html)to the barge AGAIN today. The boat might not be able to get to Kahului tomorrow to realign with that barge, so a trip on Dec. 6 may be problemmatic. Eyewitness reports from Maui say the waves are going crazy in the harbor, breaking over the breakwater and going in all directions (the waves are also splashing onto Beach Rd). It must be really bad, because the NCL boat also broke a line.

Akaku has a tape playing right now with an interview of the Coast Guard and what the security zone in Kahului Harbor will be. They will also be broadcasting live on Thursday if the boat does sail.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

The swells in Kahului Harbor broke the mooring line (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Dec/03/br/br0236597814.html)to the barge AGAIN today. It would have been appropriate if Ms. Negativity had also quoted this part of that same article:
A tugboat is assisting the DOT with the state-owned ferry barge, which has broken its lines on two prior occasions.

The NCL's Pride of America broke several of its lines and was expected to cancel its overnight stay on Maui


Not so shameful for the SuperFerry now. :rolleyes:

[LikaNui]

A brief excerpt from this Breaking News story (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Dec/03/br/br3024589167.html), just posted on the Advertiser's website:
Giant waves on Maui today damaged facilities at two north shore public beach parks and injured one tow-in surfer, county officials said in a news release.
Baldwin Beach Park and Ho'okipa Beach Park were both closed at 2:30 p.m. and will remain closed until the areas are declared safe by ocean safety personnel.
At Baldwin Beach Park, wave faces were reported to be 60 feet to 70 feet on the outside reef and a tow-in surfer sustained severe cuts and a possible compound fracture to his leg, officials said.
Waves as high as a 7-story building. Gee, big surprise that there was damage in the harbor. :rolleyes:

[Menehune Man]

I, and I believe anyone booked on the voyages for 12/06/07 are on edge.
Is it gonna go? They say yes for now, but we'll see.

Makes for a very uncomfortable feeling and I won't be going by the SuperFerry in the future unless the problems with the harbor are fixed.

If people can't depend on it running, then they can't depend on it period.

[Menehune Man]

Here's this morning's Advertiser article concerning the SuperFerry.
The training run may not go.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071204/NEWS01/712040353/1001/

[Miulang]

I, and I believe anyone booked on the voyages for 12/06/07 are on edge.
Is it gonna go? They say yes for now, but we'll see.

Makes for a very uncomfortable feeling and I won't be going by