Smoking & Smoking Bans

[Serenity]

"Smoking in the Apartment"(???)-PLEASE HELP

We have a neighbor that lives 2 doors from us, & they smoke, & we have asthmatic attacks now & then, but it hasn't flared up in a long time, although we are also very much allergic to cigarrette smoke which can cause our asthma to flare up &/or develop an asthmatic attack again!!.

My hubby says that he did talk to the land lady, & there is no law that states that they can't smoke :( .

The location of their window is within the same sides as ours, so therefore, when they do smoke, the smell goes into &/or passes to our window, & I just can't handle the smell, & I don't want to have to call for the emergency van to have to come to pick me up to bring to the hospital due the fact that I am having trouble breathing!!.

I also don't want us to move from our apartment because this apartment is the cheapest among all the others. We have lived here the longest more so than those ladies who just moved in recently, too.

There must be some sort of loop hole where I can use against it without having us to be forced to move out, & we can also take action against it!!.

*(Oh I don't remember if I had said anything in regards to the same problems or not before, if I have, I really don't remember, sorry)*

I also wonder if I find Suzanne Chun Oakland, & (in the interrnet & her email) tell her in regards to my situation, do you think that she will take my situation into consideration??

Any other information &/or help any of you can give me to help our situation any?? or shall we jsut give up on the idea, & just suffer??

My hubby also asked the land lady if she can take into consideraion about changing her rules to a NO SMOKING in her building once those people's lease is up (When ever that is!!. :rolleyes: ). I think My hubby said that she would change her rules & regulation once their lease is up.

SIGH!!. that could be a looong wait or a short wait (depending). She didn't go into details when their lease will be up.

PLEASE HELP !!. in any information that can help our way.

Thank you & much Aloha to you.

[Leo Lakio]

The location of their window is within the same sides as ours, so therefore, when they do smoke, the smell goes into &/or passes to our windowYou've spoken with the landlady --- but you didn't say if you've spoken with the neighbor. Perhaps if they were made aware of your situation, they might do a "good-neighborly" thing and close their window when they smoke.

It's always best to give them a chance to cooperate with you first, before resorting to legal tactics or other means of pressure.

Can you get a small fan that you could point OUT your window, so that when you smell smoke wafting in, you can blow it out before it gets into your place very much? Are there other things that come in the window that bother you, such as smoke from grills? A fan might help with that as well.

[Serenity]

Is there such a thing as a window fan that would actually fit onto my living room window?? & where may I get this window fan???

Actually there was a similar situation with another neighbor who lived next door/next building to us which he also smoked, & my hubby talked to him about it, but evidently he couldn't careless about our health whats so ever!!. :rolleyes: :mad: .

ThankGoodness He found another place & decided to move out!!.

Hale Luya!!.

Some people just don't care (or don't give a sh!t) about other people's health when it comes to their own discusting habit!!. :mad: (meaning : around our building, ofcourse.)

I guess that's why my hubby resulted in talking to the landlady first to see if we could get a better results first as oppose to us talking to our neighbor.

I am still wishing that there is a certain loop hole I can get to or use in order to stop them from smoking.

[Leo Lakio]

Actually there was a similar situation with another neighbor who lived next door/next building to us which he also smoked, & my hubby talked to him about it, but evidently he couldn't careless about our health whats so ever!!. :rolleyes: :mad: . --- I guess that's why my hubby resulted in talking to the landlady first to see if we could get a better results first as oppose to us talking to our neighbor. So...you guys haven't approached the newer neighbor, because a different neighbor was a jerk? :confused:

True, some folks don't give a rat's rump about whether their activities bother you or not - but some folks are willing to work with you to resolve a situation - though may be less likely to do so if you don't even give them a chance first.

Can't help you with the fan, though. Measure your window, then check hardware stores. If you want to mount it in the window, there may well be exhaust fans that would suit your needs. Without knowing the height of your window, it might be as simple as putting a box fan on a table, in front of the window.

[Serenity]

So...you guys haven't approached the newer neighbor, because a different neighbor was a jerk? :confused:

True, some folks don't give a rat's rump about whether their activities bother you or not - but some folks are willing to work with you to resolve a situation - though may be less likely to do so if you don't even give them a chance first.

Can't help you with the fan, though. Measure your window, then check hardware stores. If you want to mount it in the window, there may well be exhaust fans that would suit your needs. Without knowing the height of your window, it might be as simple as putting a box fan on a table, in front of the window.

I will have my hubby talk to them to see if there will be any improvements about the situation.

If that doesn't work, I promise not to get mad at you about it. ;)

I will also see what we can do in regards to a certain window fan.

Thanks again.

Much Aloha to you & your family.

Have an awesome weekend. :)

[AlohaKine]

I am still wishing that there is a certain loop hole I can get to or use in order to stop them from smoking.Serenity, I can understand your situation and how it really bothers you. It offends your personal space. However making your neighbor have to stand on the sidewalk in his PJ's on a dark street in the middle of the night also offends his space.

Calmly explaining the situation to the other party and discussing a fix is clearly the best option. Things like either of you shutting their window or some type of cost or labor arrangement for an "engineering controls" fix. I think most folks would be receptive if a fair and reasonible solution was put on the table. A simple fix is far better then a lawsuit or a person having to give up their home.

I live in a highrise and when I first moved in my AC unit had no drip pan or piping so I put a aluminum cooking tray under it which sometimes overflowed and drained on to lanai's below causing offense. I spoke with management and they came and got me a proper tray from storage since the previous owner had taken it with him and fixed the pipes. Now everybody's happy.

The Coalition for a Tobacco Free Hawaii's solution would have been to cut the electrical cord to the AC's for everybody in the building with an AC unit including those that caused no offense and threaten to force people out of their homes if they fixed it, leaving people sweating like dogs until they were climatized to their new "social norm". The last thing they would want is a win-win situation.

Same thing with the bars. About 10-15% still allow smoking such as at one sports bar near where I live. Most people are cool with it because that bar wants and needs it and the customers love the smoke. If anybody that went there had issues with it, there's another comperible sports bar accross the street that doesn't allow smoking. Why can't this type of win-win just be legal?

[douglas]

With respect to AlohaKine’s link, to Mr. Crowley’s Gathering Place letter in the Sept. 18th. Star-Bulletin, AlohaKine conveniently neglect to share with this group two subsequent letters that appear two days latter, shooting holes in Mr. Crowley’s bucolic statements.

The letters follow:

From Thursday’s Star-bulletin’s letters section.

Nonsmoking rules now common in Japan, too. David Crowley imagines "millions of angry Japanese smokers" (Gathering Place, Sept. 18). But things have changed since Crowley grew up there. Recognizing the burden upon others, smokers in Japan are accepting countless new restrictions in public and private places. In recent travels from Okinawa to Hokkaido, I've seen extraordinary cooperation and no evident anger.

Crowley misses other points. Our new law directly affects all Japanese visitors, including delighted nonsmoking families with children and elderly, just as it is celebrated by the vast majority of Hawaii residents.
There is no evidence of "millions in lost revenue." Japanese tourism began falling off several years ago. What's more, my studies indicate Japanese arrivals began improving last fall.

While the "Smoking with Aloha" slogan may have been poorly selected, Hawaii Tourism Japan's aim was right on. For example, misimpressions surely arose when Sports Nippon headlined Hawaii becoming "completely nonsmoking" and reported, "You won't even be able to smoke on the beach." In the meanwhile, I hope Star-Bulletin readers will not fall into misimpressions created by Crowley's unfounded reports.

Mark Levin
Associate professor
William S. Richardson School of Law
University of Hawaii-Manoa

And in Friday’s (yesterdays) letter section,

People don't go places so they can smoke.
David Crowley's "Gathering Place" column Tuesday was way off the mark when it comes to the new smoke-free legislation in Hawaii. Having now lived in a completely smoke-free world here in New Zealand for more than two years, we see the benefits on a daily basis.

There were concerns raised during the development of the legislation here over tourism and the impacts on the Asian market. In reality, post legislation, there has been no impact.

A simple testing question was put to the media, politicians and the public at the time -- do smoking tourists come here to smoke or to enjoy our beautiful country?

Having spent the best part of 11 hours flying time from Japan to New Zealand, a smoker has clearly decided that is for the country, not the cigarettes! Why would going to Hawaii be any different?
Shane Kawenata Bradbrook
Director
Maori Smokefree Coalition
Wellington, New Zealand

As Bill O’Reilly would say, let keep things “fair and balanced.”

Doug

[GeckoGeek]

unless you have some kind of all-inclusive flat rate contract with them. If you have a Resident Manager

Yup. Nope.

[Serenity]

Serenity, I can understand your situation and how it really bothers you. It offends your personal space. However making your neighbor have to stand on the sidewalk in his PJ's on a dark street in the middle of the night also offends his space.

You know...

now that I think about it more, why can't they try to atleast quit, when there is countless of people out there in the world are already dying, & one of them is from cancer :rolleyes: .

Why can't they just shutt their window closed, seeing as they love the smell/odor of it any way, why can't they just close their damn window?!?!.

I don't think I will be the one, I realy like my FRESH AIR!!.

[1stwahine]

Serenity, K-den. Foa some people take time foa regista juss like wen trying to explain something to a person. But the person no can grasp the idea...the person stuck or lil bit confused. It's the same with a person addicted with SMOKING.

I know wat it is to be at the mercy of smoking cigarettes.

I believe it is a person's right to smoke.

You or nobody else can or should tell a smoker when to stop.

It is a Smoker's choice.

Auntie Lynn
22 days and counting!;)

[LikaNui]

And in Friday’s (yesterdays) letter section, (...)

"People don't go places so they can smoke."
Shane Kawenata Bradbrook
Director, Maori Smokefree Coalition
Wellington, New Zealand

To Mister Bradbrook, I say a very heartfelt "Bullfeathers." I (and most of the many smokers whom I know) absolutely DO specifically choose places where we can smoke, or at the very least we go to places where it's very convenient to grab a quick smoke.
He should keep his opinions in New Zealand.
:(

[scrivener]

If he's talking about choosing vacation destinations based on the smoking laws, he's probably closer to correct than incorrect, but if not, then I totally agree with Lika, certain liberal vacation destinations in Europe notwithstanding.

I don't smoke, except for what used to be the occasional (once or twice a year) cigar, and I absolutely decided where to go based on whether or not I'd be allowed to smoke. Certain pool halls where I used to have a cigar and a few racks on my birthday haven't seen me or my buddies since the new law.

[tutusue]

You know what, Serenity? I agree with Auntie. Smoking is an addiction. One must want to stop and even then it's not easy. I've never smoked and am violently allergic to cigarette smoke. Still, ciggies are legal. I would never expect anyone to quit to satisfy my needs. That'd be a bit narcissistic.

As others have suggested, try to make it a win-win situation between you and your neighbor. Explain your health challenges and ask them for ideas on how to help you solve the problem. Don't demand; rather, request their help. They may offer a better solution that you hadn't thought of. Bottom line is...you won't know 'til you try.

BTW...smoking killed my dad.

[Serenity]

You know what, Serenity? I agree with Auntie. Smoking is an addiction. One must want to stop and even then it's not easy. I've never smoked and am violently allergic to cigarette smoke. Still, ciggies are legal. I would never expect anyone to quit to satisfy my needs. That'd be a bit narcissistic.

As others have suggested, try to make it a win-win situation between you and your neighbor. Explain your health challenges and ask them for ideas on how to help you solve the problem. Don't demand; rather, request their help. They may offer a better solution that you hadn't thought of. Bottom line is...you won't know 'til you try.
Thank you for your reply back.

BTW...smoking killed my dad.

BTW...

Smoking also killed my grandparents & my hubby's mom, too. :(

Although, my hubby's dad did smoked (for a long time),
but he quit cold turkey!!. Since he can quit cold turkey, I'm sure anyone can do it aswell.

[tutusue]

[...]Although, my hubby's dad did smoked (for a long time),
but he quit cold turkey!!. Since he can quit cold turkey, I'm sure anyone can do it aswell.
My dad quit cold turkey, too...after it was too late. The possibility of death was a strong incentive. But, just because your hubby's dad and my dad were able to quit cold turkey doesn't mean, in the least, that "anyone can do it as well". Smoking is an addiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction). Everyone will react differently to withdrawal. The majority have a tough time. Nicotine is a drug, afterall.

[Serenity]

You or nobody else can or should tell a smoker when to stop.

That maybe true.

I believe it is a person's right to smoke. It is a Smoker's choice.I'm sorry to reply this way, but....

Who said that????

it's "their choice" & "the right" to pass on second hand smoke to others, which also includes old people, asthmatic people & children, too?? which in turn makes them sick???


Auntie Lynn
22 days and counting!;)Well.....

Good for you!!!. :)

My dad quit cold turkey, too...after it was too late. The possibility of death was a strong incentive. But, just because your hubby's dad and my dad were able to quit cold turkey doesn't mean, in the least, that "anyone can do it as well". Smoking is an addiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction). Everyone will react differently to withdrawal. The majority have a tough time. Nicotine is a drug, afterall.

I suppose, so.

[Miulang]

Who's lived in their apartment longer, you or your neighbor? The unfortunate thing for you is, because of the tight rental market in Hawai'i, your landlord can pick and choose his/her tenants. If you can't come to a compromise with your neighbor, if it really starts affecting your health, and if the landlord refuses to do anything about turning your building into a smoke-free one, you might have to be the ones to leave. How many units are there, and do you know how many other of your neighbors smoke?

If I was a landlord, I would allow pets (like one small dog or 2 cats max) with a damage deposit, but I wouldn't allow smokers. Why? Because to decontaminate a smoke-filled apartment (I doubt many Hawai'i apartments have wall to wall carpeting, but if they do, once a smoker has vacated, you have to do extensive carpet cleaning and/or replace the carpeting, and repaint smoke covered walls, and replace or clean window coverings). Very rarely will a pet do damage to a wall. And fires are caused by people falling asleep while holding lit cigarettes or carelessly disposing of their butts. I've never heard of a pet peeing and causing a fire!

Miulang

[1stwahine]

I just want to add.

I stopped smoking five days before I suffered a TIA. I believe if I didn't stop, I would have had a major stroke which would have caused me to die or left me with more medical problems. I did suffer weakness on my left side from the TIA. I also have some numbness on my face.

No one could have stopped me from SMOKING.

I tried many times.:o

The last time I decided to quit, I had $5.00 to choose to eat a sandwich or to buy a pack of cigarettes. I chose the cigarettes. I knew then the cigarettes were controlling me. I decided it was going to be the END!

Straight to Longs Pali, I went to purchase the Patch for $26.00 + tax. For seven days I followed it to the T. I realized it was a crutch. I didn't use it anymoa. Blaine told me about http://www.callitquitshawaii.org/ I have counselors to check on my progress as well as support groups.:)

One day at a time.

I want to Live!

Auntie Lynn

[Serenity]

Who's lived in their apartment longer, you or your neighbor? The unfortunate thing for you is, because of the tight rental market in Hawai'i, your landlord can pick and choose his/her tenants. If you can't come to a compromise with your neighbor, if it really starts affecting your health, and if the landlord refuses to do anything about turning your building into a smoke-free one, you might have to be the ones to leave. How many units are there, and do you know how many other of your neighbors smoke?We have lived in this building the longest. The only time that the land lady will change her rules & regulations is when my neighbor's (2 doors down) lease is up (when ever that is).

There is 8-10 untits/apartments in the building, & the ones 2 doors down are the only ones that smokes around here!!. Everyone else incuding us, doesn't smoke, & down below & a ways over, there is a couple just had a child recently a few month ago.
If I was a landlord, I would allow pets (like one small dog or 2 cats max) with a damage deposit, but I wouldn't allow smokers. Why? Because to decontaminate a smoke-filled apartment (I doubt many Hawai'i apartments have wall to wall carpeting, but if they do, once a smoker has vacated, you have to do extensive carpet cleaning and/or replace the carpeting, and repaint smoke covered walls, and replace or clean window coverings). Very rarely will a pet do damage to a wall.Personally, I really wish you were the land lady here (if that will be your rules & regulations for the buiding).

Infact, supposidly that there is no pets allowed, but it isn't wriiten on the rules at all. If that is true about pets here, which is kindof odd, because it should be the other way around. No Smoking, & pets allowed.

One day at a time. I want to Live!

Good for you & I'm proud of you for trying to quit!!. =)

God Bless you!!. =)

[1stwahine]

Good for you & I'm proud of you for trying to quit!!. =)

God Bless you!!. =)

Thanks Serenity! Your words mean so much to me right now!

Auntie Lynn

[AlohaKine]

You know...

now that I think about it more, why can't they try to atleast quit, when there is countless of people out there in the world are already dying, & one of them is from cancer :rolleyes: .

Why can't they just shutt their window closed, seeing as they love the smell/odor of it any way, why can't they just close their damn window?!?!.

I don't think I will be the one, I realy like my FRESH AIR!!.

If it was me, I'd just shut my window for you. I'm more then willing to work with people on something reasonable. I fact I do keep my windows shut and it helps keep all the urban black dust from getting on all my things inside. As for quitting, if people want to quit fine. However it should be a personnal choice and not the product of other people dictating how others should live their own lives. That's a slippery slope of intorerance which doesn't seem all that bad until it targets something that you enjoy that may not be politically correct at the time. Can't we all just get alone?

[Serenity]

Thanks Serenity! Your words mean so much to me right now!Awww. Shucks. I'm speechless,
and all I can give you is a whole bunch of smiles. :) :) :)

If it was me, I'd just shut my window for you. I'm more then willing to work with people on something reasonable. I fact I do keep my windows shut and it helps keep all the urban black dust from getting on all my things inside. As for quitting, if people want to quit fine. However it should be a personnal choice and not the product of other people dictating how others should live their own lives. That's a slippery slope of intorerance which doesn't seem all that bad until it targets something that you enjoy that may not be politically correct at the time. Can't we all just get alone?I guess my reply to that is, it is just like any other drugs, with exception of the fact that this one is the most legal of them all.

*People have to hit rock bottom in order for people to realize that they need to quit.

That's all there is to it.

Some just takes longer than others, & some realizes it way too late.

Now being repectful to others is a different subject altogether.

It seems like we (smokers ~vs.~ non smokers) are all like bull horns, & we continue to keep butting heads to see who will back down first.


Humanbeings, I tell you!. We don't seem to ever get satisfied, maybe that's because that's why we are always fighting with each other in some kind of form or the other, & can never come to an agreement.

*just to keep positive- I'm sure someday we will.

[Frankie's Market]

If it was me, I'd just shut my window for you. I'm more then willing to work with people on something reasonable. I fact I do keep my windows shut and it helps keep all the urban black dust from getting on all my things inside.

If only that was an option in every situation. But that's not reality. How many times have I had to give up my seat at a bus stop shelter because some inconsiderate fool upwind from me lit up and started puffing away. When I was young kid, I wouldn't say anything. When I got older, I used to speak up and politely ask them to not to smoke if they were upwind of me because of my asthma. Sometimes, they would apologize and move away. But the vast majority of the time, they would give me the stink eye,... or just plain ignore me. I would hardly call that behavior "respectful."

So I gave up trying to be polite. Now, whenever I catch the bus, I bring my portable mini-fan with me in case anyone lights up at the stop to blow that poison away from me. Ironically, the last time I did that, some of the smoke went right back to the smoker, and she started coughing and hacking. How do you like that, a smoker who can't stand her own second-hand smoke? :rolleyes:

[Serenity]

So I gave up trying to be polite. Now, whenever I catch the bus, I bring my portable mini-fan with me in case anyone lights up at the stop to blow that poison away from me. Ironically, the last time I did that, some of the smoke went right back to the smoker, and she started coughing and hacking. How do you like that, a smoker who can't stand her own second-hand smoke?YEAH!! MY KIND OF PERSON!! *gleefully jumping up & down while cheering for you smiley*

For, now & then, while we are out in about, we just like to be the rudest of them all couple. We cough & sometimes to the sound of "that stinks", or we would say or shout "WHAT THE HECK IS THAT STENCH ~OR~ WHERE IS THAT STENCH COMING FROM"!!. :p

Perhaps we might go the the store just to buy the same fan just to blow it out to their (smokers)directions aswell. :p lol.

Thanks for the awesome idea. =)

If it was me, I'd just shut my window for you. I'm more then willing to work with people on something reasonable.I wish they my (smoking) neighbors would just think like you do!!.
Unfortunately, they just don't feel the same way!!. :mad: sigh!!.

I'm thinking....

If I had a signed petition from all of the tenants in my building, & send it to the land lady for my neighbor(s) to not smoke (or to stop smoking) in this building (8-10 apartments/tenants), & for them to walk out of this building a few feet away or so (if & when they want to lite up) , would that actually work at all??

Just curious, & just an idea.

What does any one think of this???

Hope to hear from any one soon.

P.S.

(If any, I will have to reply back some time Tuesday.)

Byeee.

[Leo Lakio]

I wish they my (smoking) neighbors would just think like you do!!.
Unfortunately, they just don't feel the same way!!. :mad: :( sigh!!.
If I had a signed petition from all of the tenants in my building, & send it to the land lady for my neighbor(s) to not smoke (or to stop smoking) in this building (8-10 apartments/tenants), & for them to walk out of this building a few feet away or so (if & when they want to lite up) , would that actually work at all?? :confused: Have you actually spoken with the neighbor yet, or are you still trying to force your solution on them in a roundabout fashion?

[Serenity]

Have you actually spoken with the neighbor yet, or are you still trying to force your solution on them in a roundabout fashion?

well.... Uhm....

First off, he said that "they may not even follw up with our request, even if we talked to them".

The next time, he said, that :"they are within their rights & I don't want to cause bad blood, & maybe I'm just a chicken."

I really don't want to go there & talk to them myself, because I'm already upset, & I might make everything much worse than it already is.

So...

I guess, sometimes, we just drop hints now & then (out loud), & hope that they are listening or hearing what we are saying.

Maybe I can write them a letter & also send a copy to the land lady about my written request??

I seem to be better in letters than I am confronting people, especially when I am upset already.

Can I also take them to court if they don't comply? or do I also need some sort of a doctor's note to add on as an attachment with the letter I will write (when or if I have to take them ot court??)

or should I just forget the whole entire idea & just suffer???

[glossyp]

well.... Uhm....

First off, he said that "they may not even follw up with our request, even if we talked to them".

The next time, he said, that :"they are within their rights & I don't want to cause bad blood, & maybe I'm just a chicken."

I really don't want to go there & talk to them myself, because I'm already upset, & I might make everything much worse than it already is.

So...

I guess, sometimes, we just drop hints now & then (out loud), & hope that they are listening or hearing what we are saying.

Maybe I can write them a letter & also send a copy to the land lady about my written request??

I seem to be better in letters than I am confronting people, especially when I am upset already.

Can I also take them to court if they don't comply? or do I also need some sort of a doctor's note to add on as an attachment with the letter I will write (when or if I have to take them ot court??)

or should I just forget the whole entire idea & just suffer???
So the straight answer to Leo Lakio's question is "No, I haven't spoken to the neighbors." Reading your tortured excuses and reasoning is making me want to go smoke a cigarette and I don't even smoke!:p

[1stwahine]

So the straight answer to Leo Lakio's question is "No, I haven't spoken to the neighbors." Reading your tortured excuses and reasoning is making me want to go smoke a cigarette and I don't even smoke!:p

Ahhhh...don't even joke about it!:(

Plezzzzz.

Auntie Lynn

[Leo Lakio]

or should I just forget the whole entire idea & just suffer???Of course you shouldn't have to suffer.

And I realize that I'm pushing you into an uncomfortable zone. No one likes to face the potential conflict in a situation like this, and we generally have been taught by experience to expect the worst outcome.

But I really think you have to give it an honest and direct try. You don't have to be rude, angry or manipulative. Come over as a friendly neighbor and have a straightforward chat with them. (Is there an outdoor common area where you can meet with them?) Don't pre-judge them as bad, just because they choose to smoke. Let them know that you have health concerns that you need to address, and ask for their cooperation. They might propose a workable compromise.

Remember - you may be living near these folks for a long time to come. You can set the tone here - one that will show them you are a good neighbor that they will want to get along with --- or that you are a behind-the-scenes troublemaker (in their eyes.)

[scrivener]

Now being respectful to others is a different subject altogether.
Your neighbors are limiting their smoking to the insides of their own home. That IS respectful, Serenity. Until they are told that their smoke is getting into your house and causing you health problems, how are they supposed to know? You're not giving them a CHANCE to be respectful neighbors.

[Serenity]

Of course you shouldn't have to suffer.

And I realize that I'm pushing you into an uncomfortable zone. No one likes to face the potential conflict in a situation like this, and we generally have been taught by experience to expect the worst outcome.

But I really think you have to give it an honest and direct try. You don't have to be rude, angry or manipulative. Come over as a friendly neighbor and have a straightforward chat with them. (Is there an outdoor common area where you can meet with them?) Don't pre-judge them as bad, just because they choose to smoke. Let them know that you have health concerns that you need to address, and ask for their cooperation. They might propose a workable compromise.

Remember - you may be living near these folks for a long time to come. You can set the tone here - one that will show them you are a good neighbor that they will want to get along with --- or that you are a behind-the-scenes troublemaker (in their eyes.)

Your neighbors are limiting their smoking to the insides of their own home. That IS respectful, Serenity. Until they are told that their smoke is getting into your house and causing you health problems, how are they supposed to know? You're not giving them a CHANCE to be respectful neighbors.


Soooo True.

Thanks for the insight. :)

[Serenity]

BTW....

my hubby told me that he did talk to the land lady (I think it was on the phone), & she told him that she did talk to our neighbors inregards to our health problems, (even though it is isn't in the rule/contract that they can't smoke inside their apartment), still continue to disregard about how it is affecting our health!!. :rolleyes: :mad:

How it works, is that when they do smoke, the smell goes out their window (from their living room area), & the wind blows it to our side, & the smell goes into our window, & we continue to breath the bad stinky air into our lungs :mad: !!.

Also, I was reminded that in the contract which states that "there is no animals allowed in the apartment"

Well....

Maybe we can have say about that, because I saw a cat through their window, & heard it a couple of times before.

Plus, that is how our other prior neighbor before they left, was kicked out, due to having a cat in their apartment.

I always gotta try for for something, even though it may sound mean of me.

We have always been good tenants, we don't smoke, we don't have pets, we don't play loud music at nights, etc...

Plus we have lived here in this apartment building longer than they have.

My hubby reminded me that he had asked the land lady how long their lease will be up, & their lease will be up in a years time. Then only then, when she can change her own rules to "NO SMOKING IN THE APARTMET".

Once the land lady changes her rules, & if they want to re new their lease, they have to abide by the the new rules & regulations, & if they don't like it, they can always move out!!.

That's ok, my hubby's brother is a profesional Lawyer, & perhaps he'll beable to find a way to help us out in our predicament.

My hubby gave me a very good quote for this evening....

"Smoking is not a right, it is a previlage, & breathing (being able to breathe) is our right!."

I think, being able to breathe & to actually live is our right!!.

I don't want to have to try call 911 for the ambulance one day to come & pick me up, just because I'm having difficulty breathing!!!

And who will I have to thank for that?!?!?!!!!

YUP!!! You know who!!!

*heavy sigh*!!!

[Hope]

Serenity, now you are just being ridiculous! Threatening to take legal action? I fail to believe that this can affect anyone to the point of needing an ambulance! They are two doors down, for crying out loud, and within their rights, as the current law is written, and there apparently isn't any rule against it in their lease.

Now you are threatening to turn in your neighbor in for having a cat? You are underhanded, and just plain vicious. In one post you quote that you think pets should be allowed, in another, you threaten to turn these folks in for having a cat. (and I, personaly, would never have an animal in my home). But, I wouldn't turn someone in, just because I live a different lifestyle.

What a manipulative, mean thing to do! You really should get a hobby, get out of that apt. more often, and just let this go! You are truly being ridiculous!

There, I said it :p

[Serenity]

Serenity, now you are just being ridiculous! Threatening to take legal action? I fail to believe that this can affect anyone to the point of needing an ambulance! They are two doors down, for crying out loud, and within their rights, as the current law is written, and there apparently isn't any rule against it in their lease.

Now you are threatening to turn in your neighbor in for having a cat? You are underhanded, and just plain vicious. In one post you quote that you think pets should be allowed, in another, you threaten to turn these folks in for having a cat. (and I, personaly, would never have an animal in my home). But, I wouldn't turn someone in, just because I live a different lifestyle.

What a manipulative, mean thing to do! You really should get a hobby, get out of that apt. more often, and just let this go! You are truly being ridiculous!

There, I said it :-p

:o

Well...

Dang it all,

I just can't seem to find a loop hole, & I know there is one.

I'm just throwing some of my ideas out there, cuz, I'm sick of feeling sick when I turn around to try to get a breath of fresh air, & all I smell is crap :rolleyes: !.

...And yeah, that is mean (to put it nicely).

What else can I do (?), if they don't want to be so understanding about other people's health?!!.

BTW, feel better, yet? :p

[Serenity]

Oh ok ok.

I'll go!!.

I know where I am not wanted. :(

Good ~ Night!!. BYE!.

09/26/07 Wednesday 12:48 am

[Leo Lakio]

What else can I do (?)*sigh...*

It sounds as though you will try any suggestion short of trying to resolve this through actual face-to-face discussion with the involved parties.

You know the answer to your own question. Since "hubby's brother is a profesional (sic) Lawyer," I am sure he will ask if you've tried talking with them at all. Maybe then you'll listen - and have to pay him $200/hour for the same answer we've been giving you.

[CranBeree]

Serenity, now you are just being ridiculous! Threatening to take legal action? I fail to believe that this can affect anyone to the point of needing an ambulance! They are two doors down, for crying out loud, and within their rights, as the current law is written, and there apparently isn't any rule against it in their lease.

Now you are threatening to turn in your neighbor in for having a cat? You are underhanded, and just plain vicious. In one post you quote that you think pets should be allowed, in another, you threaten to turn these folks in for having a cat. (and I, personaly, would never have an animal in my home). But, I wouldn't turn someone in, just because I live a different lifestyle.

What a manipulative, mean thing to do! You really should get a hobby, get out of that apt. more often, and just let this go! You are truly being ridiculous!

There, I said it :p


*CLAPS* ................. :D

[tutusue]

*CLAPS* ................. :D
Add my vigorous clapping and a "way to go, Hope!".

Serenity, why are you so willing to take such a negative approach to the problem without trying a positive approach first? Win-win is what you should be striving for. It looks like you're hellbent on a win-lose when, in reality, you're going to end up with a lose-lose situation.

BTW...taking a negative approach takes waaaaaaay more energy than a positive one. That's become terribly apparent with each message you post to this thread.

You've received some excellent advice. The question you should be asking yourself is..."Why am I so unwilling to try any of it?"

[AlohaKine]

I just recently got a copy of the 3rd version :D of the Department of health's warning letter from a friend. They never intended this to be seen by the general public, only certain bar owners and business owners and there was a reason why. Well tough cookies for them. Note how "duty/responsibilty for compliance" changed to "ELECT" for the last two requirements in the 3rd letter vs the 2nd. It's called getting caught in a lie. HA HA HA
Here it is, the 3rd letter;

************************************************** ****

[ date ]



[ name of business ]

[ address of business ]



Dear Owner/Manager:



This letter concerns a complaint to our office regarding a violation of the State Smoke-Free Law,

Chapter 328J, Hawaii Revised Statutes, which went into effect on November 16, 2006. This law

is designed to protect employees and the public from exposure to secondhand smoke. On [date]

a complaint was received relating to [ describe violation].



In order to be in compliance with the law, it is your responibility/ duty as an owner, operator,

manager, or proprietor to:



· Inform customers that smoking is prohibited in enclosed or partially enclosed areas of employment;

· Inform customers that smoking is prohibited in enclosed or partially enclosed placesopen to the public;

· Inform customers that smoking is prohibited within twenty feet from entrances, exits,windows that open, and ventilation intakes;

· Post a sign that reads "SMOKING PROHIBITED BY LAW" with letters of not less than one inch in height or the international "No Smoking" symbol, consisting of a pictorial representation of a burning cigarette enclosed in a red circle with a red bar across it, in and at the entrance to your place of employment and place open to the public;

· Communicate to all employees that "smoking shall be prohibited in your establishment"



In order to encourage compliance you may elect to do the following:



· Make reasonable efforts to ensure a smoke-free environment by removing all ashtays and smoking paraphernalia;

· If someone lights up a cigarette in a no-smoking area, politely request that they put it out and that they go outside and away from the entrance to the building ( at least twenty feet ) to smoke.



It is our intent to educate businesses about the Hawaii Smoke-Free Law. We wish to help you avoid the following penalties for violating Act 295:



FIRST VIOLATION: $100

SECOND VIOLATION ( within one year ): $200

EACH ADDITIONAL VIOLATION ( within one year ): $500



In addition to the above fines, a person who owns, manages, operates, or otherwise controls any place or facility risks the suspension or revocation of any permit or license issued to the person or the place for the premises on which the violation occurred.



We recognize that smoking is an addiction and urge compassion and support, not judgment, towards smokers. For your smoking employees who would like help in cutting down and quitting,

we can provide free information on local classes and self help materials. For those who cannot

fit a class into their schedule, Hawaii now has a toll free telephone smoking cessation hotline.

Your employees can call 1-800-[ deleted by Alohakine ] to schedule free phone sessions at their convenience.



If you have questions or need further information concerming the law, please contact us at the Department of Health, Tobacco Prevention and Education Program at (808) 586-4613 or Toll Free (888) 810-8112.





Sincerely,







Tobacco Prevention and Educaton Program

************************************************** ****

This is a change from the 2nd version and the 1st version because the guy (Lipsher) in charge of Tobacco Prevention and Education has a hard time telling the truth. He knows the law up and down, but complaints took it all the way to the AG's office when he refused to change it, even though he knew he was wrong. That is until it went up the chain of command and the director of health and AG didn't want to take a bullet for his arrogence. If you read the law, it says NOTHING ABOUT ASHTRAYS ANYWHERE OR TELLING PEOPLE THEY SHOULD GO OUTSIDE IN YOUR OWN VOICE, but look at the 2nd version from July 2007 below.

************************************************** ****

[ date ]

[ name of business ]

[ address of business ]

Dear Owner/Manager:

This letter concerns a complaint to our office regarding a violation of the State Smoke-Free Law,

Chapter 328J, Hawaii Revised Statutes, which went into effect on November 16, 2006. This law

is designed to protect employees and the public from exposure to secondhand smoke. On [date]

a complaint was received relating to [ describe violation].

In order to be in compliance with the law, it is your responibility/ duty as an owner, operator,

manager, or proprietor to:

-Inform customers that smoking is prohibited in enclosed or partially enclosed areas of employment;

-Inform customers that smoking is prohibited in enclosed or partially enclosed placesopen to the public;

-Inform customers that smoking is prohibited within twenty feet from entrances, exits,windows that open, and ventilation intakes;

-Post a sign that reads "SMOKING PROHIBITED BY LAW" with letters of not less than one inch in height or the international "No Smoking" symbol, consisting of a pictorial representation of a burning cigarette enclosed in a red circle with a red bar across it, in and at the entrance to your place of employment and place open to the public;

-Communicate to all employees that "smoking shall be prohibited in your establishment"

-Make reasonable efforts to ensure a smoke-free environment by removing all ashtays and smoking paraphernalia;

-If someone lights up a cigarette in a no-smoking area, politely request that they put it out and that they go outside and away from the entrance to the building ( at least twenty feet ) to smoke.


It is our intent to educate businesses about the Hawaii Smoke-Free Law. We wish to help you avoid the following penalties for violating Act 295:

FIRST VIOLATION: $100

SECOND VIOLATION ( within one year ): $200

EACH ADDITIONAL VIOLATION ( within one year ): $500

In addition to the above fines, a person who owns, manages, operates, or otherwise controls any place or facility risks the suspension or revocation of any permit or license issued to the person or the place for the premises on which the violation occurred.

We recognize that smoking is an addiction and urge compassion and support, not judgment, towards smokers. For your smoking employees who would like help in cutting down and quitting,

we can provide free information on local classes and self help materials. For those who cannot

fit a class into their schedule, Hawaii now has a toll free telephone smoking cessation hotline.

Your employees can call 1-800- [ deleted by Alohakine ] to schedule free phone sessions at their convenience.

If you have questions or need further information concerming the law, please contact us at the Department of Health, Tobacco Prevention and Education Program at (808) 586-4613 or Toll Free (888) 810-8112.



Sincerely,





Tobacco Prevention and Educaton Program

************************************************** **

Wow a high level member of the Coalition for Tobacco Free Hawaii and the department of health that has to be coerced into telling the truth. Who'd of thought? :rolleyes:

And there are still some issues with it that haven't been mentioned and deceitful wording. But that's for another day.

[1stwahine]

Your employees can call 1-800- [ deleted by Alohakine ] to schedule free phone sessions at their convenience.

The Agency and phone number is CALL It Quits 1-800-QUIT-NOW!:D

I wrote about dem on my Blog yesterday.heheheh
http://www.auntiepupule.com/blog/index.php?id=1189

Auntie Lynn

BTW: 28 Days ;)

[tutusue]

[...]BTW: 28 Days ;)
With pom-poms strategically placed...

give me a G......G
give me an O....O

give me an A.....A
give me a U......U
give me an N.....N
give me a T.......T
give me an I......I
give me an E......E

rah...rah...rah...sis...boom...bah!

:D :o

[1stwahine]

Mahalo TutuSue!!:D

[AlohaKine]

The Agency and phone number is CALL It Quits 1-800-QUIT-NOW!:D

I wrote about dem on my Blog yesterday.heheheh
http://www.auntiepupule.com/blog/index.php?id=1189

Auntie Lynn

BTW: 28 Days ;)

That's me joking around. The thing's on TV already 24-7. Thing is that after all the group has been through, there is no way I'm going to get on my knees and kow-tow to the Zysman cabal. Sorry.

Anyhows, have a great weekend Lynn. :)

[1stwahine]

That's me joking around. The thing's on TV already 24-7. Thing is that after all the group has been through, there is no way I'm going to get on my knees and kow-tow to the Zysman cabal. Sorry.

Anyhows, have a great weekend Lynn. :)

Hui! AlohaKine! I wrote about how I taught dey was in Hawai`i and dey not. Actually, dey in Seattle, Washington!:p

Yep! Counselors in Seattle. So, I not going call them up anymoa. Why should I? I got a much better Support Group here on HT!:D Still, others may find them useful. After all, they offer two weeks of Patches/Nicotine Gums Free and through them four more weeks if you're on Medicaid.

You have a great weekend too!

Lynn

[AlohaKine]

Very Interesting. I've read that these quit lines often have very low 6 month quit rates, often less than 10%, to as low as 5%. They serve three functions, one to make money for big pharma, two to justify "compassion" to smokers to help justify a ban ( truth is it's a sleezy, cheapskate approach that seldom works) , and third and most important to rake in master settlement bucks from the Hawaii Community Foundation to line the pockets of the operators while producing few results.

Local voices on TV run from Seattle. WTF. It would appear they don't think local folks are competent enough to run it. :eek: But of course 90%+ of the paid anti-smoking lobby are mainland transplants as well including Zysman who hails from Buffalo, New York. They even pay for "experts" to come from the mainland to speak or testify.


http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:pFA31Ssi5vcJ:hhd.org/researchpractice/policy/alcohol_policy.asp+deborah+zysman&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

It's near the bottom of the link's page.

The link above is from my favorite, favorite person Zysman. It is an expose on how to inject yourself into a community and create social enginneering to fit your desires. Just add money and presto.

Anyhow, thanks for the info Lynn. You are really on top of things for somebody that didn't have life handed to her. :)

[1stwahine]

Anyhow, thanks for the info Lynn. You are really on top of things for somebody that didn't have life handed to her. :)

heheheh

You made my Day/Night!:D

Lynn

[Hope]

Tutusue Quoted:

With pom-poms strategically placed...

give me a G......G
give me an O....O

give me an A.....A
give me a U......U
give me an N.....N
give me a T.......T
give me an I......I
give me an E......E

rah...rah...rah...sis...boom...bah!


Tutu Sue, you are sooo funny! Love this post! Goooo Auntie! You are doing better than my last attempt. :o

[tutusue]

Tutu Sue, you are sooo funny! [...]
You may not think so if you saw where I strategically placed my pom-poms! I'd make Beth the Bounty Hunter's Wife look like Twiggy! :eek:
:o

[AlohaKine]

I just got back from a new funky place on this island. Folks where going outside for the first hour, that how long it lasted. :) :) :)

The smoking ban is a joke.

[LovinLK]

I'm in Illinois and I'll be so glad when the restaurant smoking ban goes into effect in January. We've needed it for a long time.

I worked at Motorola for 7 years and at the time, smokers could smoke anywhere they wanted to. I couldn't breathe. It was awful and even though it was 20 years ago I last worked there, I still have problems from inhaling all the second-hand smoke - and they could have cared less. I had a nasty and sadistic boss who was a chain smoker and she encouraged all the smokers to smoke more - to bother me. So it was her, two pipe smokers who each smoked a different aromatic - one cherry and the other vanilla - (yuck) and another chain smoker. I'm surprised the smoke alarms didn't go on that room was so full of smoke. I had to leave and walk around to avoid the smoke and could smell the fetid stuff for hours after I left work. The smoke also bothered a few of the other non-smokers but this woman didn't care. Her ego was quite big.

It was also very bad at Hawaiian Airlines in the maintenance hangar where I worked. I had a snotty boss who smoked heavily all day and other people in the room who smoked - and he blew it in our faces. I don't know where it came from, but there was cigarette smoke coming out of the vent above my desk. You couldn't even go into the washroom without someone smoking in there and there were cigarette burns all over the place. Those places were awful. I've never smoked and to expose someone to this potentially lethal cigarette smoke is dangerous.

Nobody should have to breathe in this awful smoke. It's still somewhat bad here and when I'm at a restaurant, I don't want someone's smoke wafting to ruin my meal, the same when I'm going into a store and they're smoking right outside the door. And I have no problems going over to them and telling them to snuff out the butt because the smoke is bothering me.

[Frankie's Market]

I had a nasty and sadistic boss who was a chain smoker and she encouraged all the smokers to smoke more - to bother me. So it was her, two pipe smokers who each smoked a different aromatic - one cherry and the other vanilla - (yuck) and another chain smoker. I'm surprised the smoke alarms didn't go on that room was so full of smoke. I had to leave and walk around to avoid the smoke and could smell the fetid stuff for hours after I left work. The smoke also bothered a few of the other non-smokers but this woman didn't care. Her ego was quite big.

Sounds like the complete opposite of my friend's boss. He had this deal. If any employee who smoked was willing to quit, the boss would write out a check for $100 right on the spot. But the catch was that if the employee started again, he would owe the boss $200! It was a very creative anti-smoking policy,... and apparently, very effective. My friend didn't know of anyone starting again after taking that offer.

[AlohaKine]

There banning it in bars in Illinois as well in January. The coldest part of winter. Bar business will get hit BAD, probably 30% or more. The anti groups actually suggest doing it in summer, because they KNOW these bans are awful for business. Bars here in Hawaii are still hurting a year later, the pain is most severe the first months and the loss of business continues at a less extreme level for a very long time. There are places here that have gone out of business because of it and places that let people cheat just to survive.

As for smoking being rude, it's the person themselves not the tobacco. The same kind of people that stand right next to you and fart or turn the lights out in the bathroom when they know that you're in the stall.

[LovinLK]

I'm not sure about bars but I think that bars are included.

Perhaps there should be a few bars that have to pay for a smoking licence just like a liquor license. I don't go to bars because I don't want to smell like a stale cigarette, or have to inhale all the fumes. There are even restaurants I won't go to because their smoking area isn't behind closed doors and the smoke still wafts to the non-smoking area.

I did work at a radio station once where the owner was a non-smoker and he wouldnt' let anyone smoke on the property. And at Abbott Labs, a HUGE pharmaceutical company where I've worked as a consultant a few times, they also don't allow smoking on their campus but do have picnic tables almost out on the road and that's the only place where anyone can smoke. A lot of people drive off the property and drive around just to get their tobacco fix.

[AlohaKine]

Sounds like the complete opposite of my friend's boss. He had this deal. If any employee who smoked was willing to quit, the boss would write out a check for $100 right on the spot. But the catch was that if the employee started again, he would owe the boss $200! It was a very creative anti-smoking policy,... and apparently, very effective. My friend didn't know of anyone starting again after taking that offer.

This concept is not new. Adolf Hitler detested smoking and promised to give an expansive gold watch to any of his high ranking staff members if they would quit. When he finally shot himself, all the members of his staff that smoked lit up in the bunker. He also was instrumental in passing the first modern smoking ban.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_bans#History

[AlohaKine]

I'm not sure about bars but I think that bars are included.

Perhaps there should be a few bars that have to pay for a smoking licence just like a liquor license. I don't go to bars because I don't want to smell like a stale cigarette, or have to inhale all the fumes. .

That what the freedom of choice movement is asking for. A hardship exemption through a smoking bar liquor licence. It's called HB1800 and it is deferred until next year.

[douglas]

In response to AlohaKind's comment on Ms. Zysman.

"The link above is from my favorite, favorite person Zysman. It is an expose on how to inject yourself into a community and create social enginneering to fit your desires. Just add money and presto."

I looked at Zysman's powerpoint, this is all Political Science 101 freshman college stuff, on how to pass social legislation. Something the opposition bar owners should have emulated in their efforts to get the new smoking ban overturned. They would have been much more effective had they done so. Instead they bungled every committee hearing they went to. "Oh so amateurish."

[glossyp]

In response to AlohaKind's comment on Ms. Zysman.

"The link above is from my favorite, favorite person Zysman. It is an expose on how to inject yourself into a community and create social enginneering to fit your desires. Just add money and presto."

I looked at Zysman's powerpoint, this is all Political Science 101 freshman college stuff, on how to pass social legislation. Something the opposition bar owners should have emulated in their efforts to get the new smoking ban overturned. They would have been much more effective had they done so. Instead they bungled every committee hearing they went to. "Oh so amateurish."
It would have been great if the bar owners (small business owners, not lobbyists) had been slicker in their presentations and appearances before the legislature. It's a reality that he/she who knows how to lobby and is well-funded will do better than ordinary citizens - doesn't matter if the cause is just, fair or right - it's one of the reasons so many feel disenfranchised by our government.

[LovinLK]

I'm fully convinced that the government only cares about its own needs and not the needs of the people. They have their own agendas and none of them are helping me.

If they cared about us, meaning citizens, all illegals would be outta here, we'd all have some sort of affordable healthcare - which we don't, and they'd get rid of all the pork. No buildings in any state should be named after any congressman or senator. The pork is so bad you can smell the bacon burning in Washington DC. And the tax on tobacco, like cigarettes, should be sky high to get people to quit. Then maybe there wouldn't be as many health issues caused by the smoke and the second-hand smoke. They should also be taxing companies through the roof who offshore jobs so it would be more cost effective to keep them here.

I support IT departments and have been having a lot of trouble finding work because so much of it goes to India or the Philippines.

I know I got on a bit of a soapbox here and a little off the smoking ban but that's all a part of it.

[1stwahine]

It would have been great if the bar owners (business owners, not lobbyists) had been slicker in their presentations and appearances before the legislature. It's a reality that he/she who knows how to lobby and is well-funded will do better than ordinary citizens - doesn't matter if the cause is just, fair or right - it's one of the reasons so many feel disenfranchised by our government.

Hmmm...I just want to add, I was a novice in lobbying but I learned fast. Although it was for another cause, we were a small but sincere group. We had the proofs, witnesses, and everything to back our resolutions, etc. Representatives voted in favor every time. Alas, when it came in front of one Senator, it was killed. Yes, she alone had the power to kill it. Until this day I don't understand it. So instead of being disenchanted, I told myself, I going learn everything from the start so I can help my community better.;)

Auntie Lynn
1 month 1 day:)

[glossyp]

Hmmm...I just want to add, I was a novice in lobbying but I learned fast. Although it was for another cause, we were a small but sincere group. We had the proofs, witnesses, and everything to back our resolutions, etc. Representatives voted in favor every time. Alas, when it came in front of one Senator, it was killed. Yes, she alone had the power to kill it. Until this day I don't understand it. So instead of being disenchanted, I told myself, I going learn everything from the start so I can help my community better.;)

Auntie Lynn
1 month 1 day:)
Your experience is a good example of what can be done with commitment and passion. I hope that the bar owners will have learned from their failure and will be able to mount a better challenge. But, that still doesn't change the fact that, as you pointed out, one senator can kill something. You always have the good attitude though, so more power to you!

[1stwahine]

Your experience is a good example of what can be done with commitment and passion. I hope that the bar owners will have learned from their failure and will be able to mount a better challenge. But, that still doesn't change the fact that, as you pointed out, one senator can kill something. You always have the good attitude though, so more power to you!

Awwww...thank you glossyp!

Auntie Lynn

[AlohaKine]

The main reason it failed is not enough people in the legislature were won over yet. To go from 10% support to at least 50% support in one month with almost no experience to start with and few funds is one tough task, and tougher still facing a well funded, experienced opposition.

I think the legislature knows the anti-groups lied to them. They told them all would be fine. It wasn't. Then they told them to "give it time", hoping we would disappear and give up. It didn't happen. If we do, they will once again control 99% of the media stories and victory will be their's as the damage they are causing is covered up so that it appears to be a non-issue.

[AlohaKine]

This what it will take for AlohaKine to quit smoking. I don't think Zysman has the guts to do it. Yet

http://www.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/Vietimages/vcexec.htm

Just keep clicking on the area below the black and white photo - It'll play.

It's the moral of the whole thing. They are breaking ground to run people's lives. Live free or die!

[tutusue]

Moving from the clear the smoke commercial thread to this, the more appropriate, thread:
How much does Deborah Zysman make? She doesn't show up at the capital for free you know. It's in writting. She's your queen. What about her? It's my understanding that she has a single family home. :D This is not cheap for a girl that just came here from Buffalo, New York a few years ago. Now she's dictating what we should do.

She's getting it good. What about you???? Where's your milk and honey???

Thing is that her looting operation works like clockwork - does yours?

All these ads ain't cheap. Where's the money coming from???
Huh? :confused: Are you thinking out loud or addressing someone in particular? Who's the "your" you're referring to?

[TATTRAT]

I just got back from a new funky place on this island. Folks where going outside for the first hour, that how long it lasted. :) :) :)

The smoking ban is a joke.

Kinda right there with you on this one. Kelly Oneils does not seem to be effected at all, as well as a couple other places on Lewers. Same w/ Irish Rose.

Not that it bothered me, just was like, well so much for the "ban",lol.

[AlohaKine]

Kinda right there with you on this one. Kelly Oneils does not seem to be effected at all, as well as a couple other places on Lewers. Same w/ Irish Rose.

Not that it bothered me, just was like, well so much for the "ban",lol.

You can O'tool's to that list. All three of these pubs are owned by the same two people and they loath the ban.

[genepark]

Pigskins off Kapiolani allows smoking, as does Sand Island R&B on Sand Island Access Road.

As a heavy smoker, those two places have seen a lot of my business. Not so much now as I'm trying to cut down on drinking.

I had quit when I first moved to Hawaii a year ago, but stress along with breaking up with my girlfriend led me right back to the habit.