Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8 [Archive]

zztype

December 13th, 2007, 10:41 PM

I just saw it on the 5pm KITV news, and they said about 70 cars were on the SuperFerry going to Maui this morning... and about 70 Maui cars came to Oahu on the return trip! Nobody here screaming at them.
Also interesting to see footage of the one haole guy on Maui screaming "We don't want you here!" at the locals in the cars coming off the SuperFerry... with his East Coast accent. :mad:

But from footage on board, I did think I saw a quick shot of ZZType! :) Looking forward to his report.

Still recovering from massive seasickness. Sad to say, my sea legs were lost when I observed a Japanese tourist talking to Ralph into a seasick bag. The run up went north of Moloka'i, into a high wind and 5- to 6-foot swells. It was pretty rough. I'm literally still swaying with the ocean, internally, now, at 10:15 p.m.

I left all my photos at the office, so It will have to wait until tomorrow. (And FYI, Mel was on board, too.)

While both the Honolulu embark, disembark were remarkably quiet, the opposite was true of the Maui stop.

Maui was a zoo, with protesters in the water (kept at a respectable distance by an appropriate Coast Guard presence); protesters on the beach; protesters on the highway fronting the gate to the dock area; and, from what I could tell, dozens of protesters in cars, circulating on the highway in front of the gate, attempting to create the impression of a massive traffic jam.

One driver, on the green light, slowly pulled his (relatively new) late-model truck forward, stopped in the middle of the intersection, opened his doors and hood and walked around his vehicle in an apparent attempt to block cars exiting from the SuperFerry lot.

There were also three protesters on board the SuperFerry, who stopped at the exit stairway while disembarking, blocking following passengers from exiting. They unfurled a sign over the side of the ferry, which was promptly removed. They were allowed to stand blocking the stairs while being interviewed by media. Then they paused for a prayer, before quietly exiting the ship. As far as I could tell, they were allowed to leave without further problem.

The cars that exited the ship did so quickly and dispersed from the terminal area. The cars going back to O'ahu were lined up in orderly fashion, their drivers standing by. When the ship had unloaded the O'ahu cars, the Maui cars quickly drove up the barge ramps and into the hold of the SuperFerry.

Passengers were shuttled to and from the ship on small buses and the ship left the harbor smoothly under Coast Guard escort. Once clear of the harbor area, the ship increased speed to 36 knots and the sail back to Honolulu, with the wind and the wave action to our backs, was smooth and comfortable.

I would guess that a summertime run, south of Moloka'i would be as smooth, both ways. I'll wait until then to take the family to visit my sister and her kids on Maui.

Really, folks, we didn't run over any whales (didn't even SEE any, though we were looking), didn't bring back any truckloads of rocks or coolers of 'ophihi. As far as I could see (personal opinion), the objections are highly overblown.

More tomorrow, after I sleep more and get my land legs back! As I said on Twitter from the SuperFerry, "Barf! Barf! Good Blainey!"

mel

December 13th, 2007, 11:08 PM

I left all my photos at the office, so It will have to wait until tomorrow. (And FYI, Mel was on board, too.)

OK, I waited for Blaine to post first to see what he would say about the seasickness thing. Me, I'm not an ocean guy at all. I had almost no problem with motion sickness. Ride was bumpy going over. I found out later that there were small craft warnings for Hawaii waters today. Ride going back from Maui to Honolulu was smooth and uneventful, even though we went through the same choppy waves... except Superferry was going with the flow instead of against it. Big difference.

Everything else in Blaine's previous post is true to confirm. I'll be writing about the trip for HawaiiReporter.com (http://www.hawaiireporter.com). I spent most of tonight sifting through 900+ photos I shot on the trip. I haven't posted any except for the one below of the video gaming "pay to play" console in the small media room.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2262/2109421877_9699066cdc.jpg

GeckoGeek

December 14th, 2007, 12:11 AM

They were allowed to stand blocking the stairs while being interviewed by media. Then they paused for a prayer, before quietly exiting the ship.

How long did that take? I wouldn't have tolerated it for very long. At minimum I would have liked to see them blacklisted so they can't do that again.

zztype

December 14th, 2007, 06:06 AM

How long did that take? I wouldn't have tolerated it for very long. At minimum I would have liked to see them blacklisted so they can't do that again.

They were blocking for a few minutes. I think the HSF people were trying to be as tolerable as they could stand it. I know they KNEW the three were on board, as I heard crew mention their location on board a few times. They were being watched the whole trip.

They were relatively respectful, as well, and that helped, I am sure.

When HSF people asked them to clear the pathway, they moved off to the side, a little, and people started to slide past them and down the stairs. (This move actually trapped ME in a corner behind them, as I had been nearby trying to pick up their conversation with a reporter!)

Finally, HSF people flatly stated, "OK, come on, we need to clear this area. Let's move along." So they ended their interviews at the stairs and went to the bus loading area. Interviews continued there, out of the way of the traffic.

LikaNui

December 14th, 2007, 08:03 AM

Composite 2992

December 14th, 2007, 08:04 AM

These protesters aren't being very smart.

Part of the purpose of protesting is to make others aware of a situation. The other purpose is to make people sympathetic to the cause.

In this case they're doing things that make themselves a detestable nuisance. Just the opposite of winning hearts and minds.

ZZType -- I guess your ride over to Maui was a lot like being in the Navy again. Manning the rails! :-)

GeckoGeek

December 14th, 2007, 08:19 AM

When HSF people asked them to clear the pathway, they moved off to the side, a little, and people started to slide past them and down the stairs. .... Finally, HSF people flatly stated, "OK, come on, we need to clear this area. Let's move along." So they ended their interviews at the stairs and went to the bus loading area.

OK, that helps my blood pressure. I was picturing something more disruptive.

GeckoGeek

December 14th, 2007, 08:23 AM

These protesters aren't being very smart.

Part of the purpose of protesting is to make others aware of a situation. The other purpose is to make people sympathetic to the cause.

What's more, it's clear these people come from somewhere else, where nasty confrontation is the way they do things. They are the ones causing greater damage to Hawaii then the HSF.

zztype

December 14th, 2007, 09:19 AM

ZZType -- I guess your ride over to Maui was a lot like being in the Navy again. Manning the rails! :-)

Well, they did take the route past the NORTH SHORE of Moloka'i in a high wind and small craft warning! This being winter, and all, I think that the wave action might have slapped a cruise ship around just a little bit.

I estimated seas to be about 6 feet, but it was reported by the weather people that it was more like 12 feet.

I was OK, until somebody else lost it in front of me... then I started feeling queasy. After that, it was all over!

joshuatree

December 14th, 2007, 11:08 AM

So today's SB article (http://starbulletin.com/2007/12/14/news/story01.html) lists yesterday's numbers for the ship's voyage. Seems like Maui gained a net of 10 cars and 20 people on the isle as a result of this boat. Far cry from the massive invasion alarms.

The three-hour return trip to Honolulu at 11 a.m. carried about 170 passengers and 50 vehicles, about a fifth of the vessel Alakai's capacity of 866 passengers and 282 vehicles. About 190 riders and 60 cars were aboard when the vessel pulled away from Pier 19 in Honolulu Harbor for Kahului at about 6:40 a.m. yesterday.

craigwatanabe

December 14th, 2007, 12:51 PM

And look what Matson's bringing in (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071214/BUSINESS/712140341/1071). Their floating vehicle garage can move 1200 vehicles at ONE TIME, but I guess it's only to Oahu so all those environmentalists can rest easy cuz it ain't going to the OTHER islands.

tutusue

December 14th, 2007, 12:55 PM

Hey, Blaine...I think I saw you on this morning's KHNL news recap! Fortunately you didn't embarrass yourself on tape! :D

zztype

December 14th, 2007, 04:31 PM

Hey, Blaine...I think I saw you on this morning's KHNL news recap! Fortunately you didn't embarrass yourself on tape! :D

Haw! Fancy that! They didn't shoot me while I was talking to Ralph?

zztype

December 14th, 2007, 08:56 PM

I finally posted my photos from yesterday's voyage to Maui. There are some startling shots, mind you. I think I got one or two that the big boys didn't!

http://www.zztype.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=43277

(All © copyright 2007 Blaine Fergerstrom. Don't use without permission. Mahalo!)

Aloha,

Blaine

Miulang

December 15th, 2007, 07:49 AM

In case anybody cares to see it, Akaku should be broadcasting the events at Kahului Harbor this morning.

Miulang

zztype

December 15th, 2007, 11:02 PM

OK, here's my favorite shot of the day:

http://www.zztype.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43547&g2_serialNumber=2

"No pictures, no pictures!
"Awwww, c'mon!
"*grin*, No, no pictures!"

Hehehe. Hope bruddah no get in trouble. He just looked SuperBad!

http://www.zztype.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=43546

Don't know why this bugga won't insert a picture here!

dick

December 16th, 2007, 12:27 AM

Nice "heavily armed dude" shot.

Protesters weep about how the USCG is "over reacting."

Well, that's because of the protesters.

When I went over on that first maiden voyage to Maui, one small coast guard boat tagged along with the Alakai, and there were no "heavily armed dudes" onshore.

It's pretty simple. If you threaten interference with maritime commerce, the threats will be addressed appropriately.

oceanpacific

December 16th, 2007, 03:42 AM

mel

December 16th, 2007, 05:00 AM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2346/2114646210_9b3beddf4c.jpg
This little boat escorted the Superferry out of Kahului Harbor.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2373/2113022697_fd76359603.jpg
The same two Coast Guard guys on the Superferry during the trip over to Maui.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/2114347426_09ddcb643a.jpg
I hope these guys got some good surf on Oahu.

zztype

December 16th, 2007, 09:19 AM

Let's try the picture posting again:

http://zztype.com/ht/heavily-armed.JPG

Nice "heavily armed dude" shot.

Protesters weep about how the USCG is "over reacting."

Well, that's because of the protesters.

When I went over on that first maiden voyage to Maui, one small coast guard boat tagged along with the Alakai, and there were no "heavily armed dudes" onshore.

It's pretty simple. If you threaten interference with maritime commerce, the threats will be addressed appropriately.

Mahalo, Rich! High praise, coming from you.

You are correct. The Coast Guard "overreaction" is simply appropriate response to the protesters' "overreaction." You reap what you sow.

As the protesters ratchet down their actions, so will the Coast Guard ease off on theirs. The Coast Guard will not back off first.

As far as the fake traffic jam, I saw it with my own eyes. I have a couple of shots of the guy and his truck among my photos. He wasn't the only one circulating the block trying to add more vehicles to the road. I observed others driving back and forth, honking their horns, waving signs from car windows.

My reaction to that? Juvenile.

My position on Superferry? Vote with your wallet. If nobody rides, it will go away on its own. However, if enough people vote against you (with their wallets) you will need to be prepared to deal with losing and to go on with your life.

They ought to hand out "Protest...something" bumper stickers at these get-togethers. Sort of sums up the feeling I get from just about any of the anti-Superferry faction.

GeckoGeek

December 16th, 2007, 09:39 AM

What do you think about the reports of some protesters trying to create a traffic jam at the intersection? One person reportedly drove his late-model truck slowly into the middle of the intersection, stopped, and opened his hood feigning car trouble.

Maybe next time they'll have a tow truck stationed there. From what I understand, once that boom touches your car, you're on the hook for charges. That would put a stop to that pretty quick.

craigwatanabe

December 16th, 2007, 02:44 PM

And a cop issuing a ticket for obstructing traffic:)

So with 250 protesters and 250 HSF passengers (http://starbulletin.com/2007/12/16/news/story03.html)I guess that about evens out the battle over friend vs foe...oh I forgot two of the passengers were protesters. Hmmm I wonder if they flew back to Honolulu so they could justify coming back to Maui by air instead of the HSF.

If they ended their journey via the HSF isn't that a bit hypocritical?

So if it's the same 250+2 protesters everyday and as each day passes, the number of those in favor of the HSF will exponentially increase with every day it docks in Maui.

I think the protesters are slowly losing ground with increasing ratios like that. The problem with humanity nowdays is that we just don't like to lose...I think General Patton once mentioned something like that about us Americans.

What I can't understand is this statement from Ms Bowie, "We want to get back to life as normal as can be with the Superferry," said Irene Bowie, executive director for the protesting group Maui Tomorrow.

She indicates she wants life to get back to normal "WITH THE SUPERFERRY". but is protesting it's very existance. She either mistated her remark or her remarks were misqquoted. Either way it's a confusing statement.:confused:

mel

December 17th, 2007, 07:16 AM

My article, "Rock n Roll on the Hawaii Superferry (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?44016549-7c77-4d85-95fa-aa405a5219e5)" at HawaiiReporter.com was posted last night. My photos on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/macprohawaii/sets/72157603462600654/).

joshuatree

December 21st, 2007, 01:41 PM

Looks like the first real application of the HSF (http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/2784/40/). The National Guard will be planning to use the ferry to get their equipment out to Maui to help with the storm cleanup. They cited using the ferry would be cheaper than using C17s.

LikaNui

December 21st, 2007, 02:34 PM

Looks like the first real application of the HSF (http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/2784/40/). The National Guard will be planning to use the ferry to get their equipment out to Maui to help with the storm cleanup. Gee, I wonder how many of those same Maui protesters will be lined up yelling and screaming at the National Guard to go back to Oahu. :rolleyes:

Haupia

December 25th, 2007, 05:22 PM

Well, the Mauians have to either swallow it and accept the assistance, if any, or be habut and suffer. Things sound quiet on the front, has the count in protestors dwindled or is this just a temporary holiday break for them?

helen

December 25th, 2007, 05:31 PM

Gee, I wonder how many of those same Maui protesters will be lined up yelling and screaming at the National Guard to go back to Oahu.

Kind of pointless thing to do. The National Guard and their equipment is not going to stay in Maui for very long.

And if the National Guard or the State wanted to really quiet down the protesters. They would use the C-17 to airlift the stuff from Oahu to Maui and then use the SuperFerry for the trip from Maui to Oahu.

LikaNui

December 25th, 2007, 09:26 PM

Kind of pointless thing to do. Indeed. My tongue was firmly planted in my cheek when I wrote what you quoted.
That's why I had the :rolleyes: in my original quote, like this:

Gee, I wonder how many of those same Maui protesters will be lined up yelling and screaming at the National Guard to go back to Oahu. :rolleyes:

Anyway, it seems that almost everything the Maui protesters yell and scream about is pointless. The operative term there being "almost."

GeckoGeek

December 26th, 2007, 08:10 AM

Things sound quiet on the front, has the count in protestors dwindled or is this just a temporary holiday break for them?

I'd like to know too. Seems like the whole HSF has fallen off the news page. Will the protesters continue, or will they do something stupid so they can be in the news again?

Pomai

December 26th, 2007, 08:39 AM

joshuatree

December 26th, 2007, 10:24 AM

HSF had to cancel today's Maui trip, as seas in the channel were reportedly dangerously high. Which is why you see it docked at Honolulu harbor this morning.

Yesterday they fought 20' swells, and from what I hear it was quite a "ride".

Are they simplying giving the pax for today a spot on tomorrow's run? Or do they comp them with airline tix? Or first class upgrade?

To me, this seems no different than flying out on the East Coast, flights get cancelled all the time due to weather.

oceanpacific

December 26th, 2007, 11:26 AM

HSF had to cancel today's Maui trip, as seas in the channel were reportedly dangerously high. Which is why you see it docked at Honolulu harbor this morning.

Yesterday they fought 20' swells, and from what I hear it was quite a "ride".

I'm surprised that none of the protesters are claiming that GOD is siding with them and sending these swells against HSF .................

GeckoGeek

December 26th, 2007, 07:05 PM

HSF had to cancel today's Maui trip, as seas in the channel were reportedly dangerously high.

Hmmm. I wonder how often that's going to happen and for how long a stretch? I hope lack of reliability doesn't become HSF fatal flaw. Unlike the mainland, we're not used to having to cancel trips because of weather. (At least for anything less then a hurricane.)

HWNJAP

December 27th, 2007, 07:03 PM

What seems sort of strange is that in the video, the ones yelling "go home we don't want you hea?"

They all look like; they NOT born in Hawaii?:confused:

Boy it never ceases to amaze me. How some people think they have the right to tell others what to do.
Especially when No one invited them hea in the first place!

would be a big laugh if there was a group of Hawaiians behind them.

Soon as they yell "Go home, we don't want you here" To the people from the ferry.

The group of Hawaiians tell them! "Well now you know how we feel about you being hea!"

Leo Lakio

December 27th, 2007, 07:28 PM

They all look like; they NOT born in Hawaii?:confused:

Boy it never ceases to amaze me....and it amazes me that you think you can tell who is born in Hawai`i based just on how they look.:confused:

HWNJAP

December 27th, 2007, 08:29 PM

...and it amazes me that you think you can tell who is born in Hawai`i based just on how they look.:confused:

U right! I not one expert like U! LOL!!!

1stwahine

December 27th, 2007, 08:42 PM

U right! I not one expert like U! LOL!!!

WTF?!! You come in hea and ack ....eh, neba mind.:rolleyes:

Auntie Lynn

HWNJAP

December 27th, 2007, 09:57 PM

WTF?!! You come in hea and ack ....eh, neba mind.:rolleyes:

Auntie Lynn

Oh? no dis respect Auntie!

But I not going be baited into a forum fight with Mr. Porter!

Eh up to him if he like try? But I'm no fool. Why I going let what he say get me mad?

I think you get me wrong Auntie!

1stwahine

December 28th, 2007, 06:41 AM

They all look like; they NOT born in Hawaii?

Boy it never ceases to amaze me. How some people think they have the right to tell others what to do.
Especially when No one invited them hea in the first place.

I support the Hawaii Superferry.

How can you tell if a person is not born in Hawai'i by the way they look?:confused: It is racial and prejudice to think so.:mad:

I have a beautiful Ohana. The skin color of my relatives come in all colors. The majority were born in Hawaii. I have ukapila friends with different skin color and hair styles too.

We are Human Beings on planet Earth.

We have Laws to follow. Whatever the pilikia the Protesters have should be based on the Laws they're breaking.

I respect ALL Opinions but when it comes to being prejudice and racial, I will not stand for it.

Auntie Lynn

BTW: My grandchildren are white.:rolleyes:

Leo Lakio

December 28th, 2007, 07:23 AM

But I not going be baited into a forum fight with Mr. Porter!No worry, beef curry. Now that I know who you are, I won't bother. You'll do just fine without my help. :p

1stwahine

December 28th, 2007, 07:27 AM

No worry, beef curry. Now that I know who you are, I won't bother. You'll do just fine without my help. :p

Aiyah!! I should have known!!:eek:

Naughty. naughty.

Auntie Lynn

HWNJAP

December 28th, 2007, 09:40 AM

No worry, beef curry. Now that I know who you are, I won't bother. You'll do just fine without my help.

See Auntie? I told you he was try to start something!

Aiyah!! I should have known!!

Naughty. naughty.

Auntie Lynn

I support the Hawaii Superferry.

How can you tell if a person is not born in Hawai'i by the way they look?:confused: It is racial and prejudice to think so.

I have a beautiful Ohana. The skin color of my relatives come in all colors. The majority were born in Hawaii. I have ukapila friends with different skin color and hair styles too.

We are Human Beings on planet Earth.

We have Laws to follow. Whatever the pilikia the Protesters have should be based on the Laws they're breaking.

I respect ALL Opinions but when it comes to being prejudice and racial, I will not stand for it.

Auntie Lynn

BTW: My grandchildren are white.

My earlier statement about they not being born hea? (Sorry maybe wrong choice of words)
I was just commenting on,
"why the think they can go out in public and tell anyone else they not welcome hea?"
If you watch the vid clip das exactly what they stay yelling at the good people coming off the S/F.

We all Immigrated from another land!

How they would feel if someone told them that when they came hea?

No prejudice hea! (I just Hate stupid people!)

I believe "It isn't the Who you are that matters! It is what you do that matters!"

Aloha Auntie!

Menehune Man

December 28th, 2007, 04:39 PM

Hmmm. I wonder how often that's going to happen and for how long a stretch? I hope lack of reliability doesn't become HSF fatal flaw. Unlike the mainland, we're not used to having to cancel trips because of weather. (At least for anything less then a hurricane.)

The unreliability is a serious issue. Recently, I was scheduled to take the SuperFerry over and back between Oahu and Maui.
My buddy and I flew instead, so all's well. Now if I was planning on taking a vehicle it would have been a real problem.

So the question I have is...
Is it only a harbor issue that's stopping the trips or the actual conditions in the channels?
If it's the channels then that should have been considered! Harbors can be upgraded.

GeckoGeek

December 28th, 2007, 06:46 PM

So the question I have is...
Is it only a harbor issue that's stopping the trips or the actual conditions in the channels?
If it's the channels then that should have been considered! Harbors can be upgraded.

If I understand today's Advertiser article, it's the channels. And it was considered - they only expected to be inoperative 4 days a year. And December was the worst time.

LikaNui

January 3rd, 2008, 06:01 PM

Proving the superiority of the SuperFerry (and talk about needing Barf Bags!)...
Much has been said here in the past about ferry service in the Seattle area, so it was interesting to find this comment and these two photos on this new page (http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/photos/08/0104/) of the wonderful Sailing Scuttlebutt (http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/) website just now:
Windstorms in the Pacific Northwest can play havoc on the ferry traffic, which is vital in some areas for transportation. On days like this, the lower platform can become a mess as the force of saltwater waves douse and push around the car cargo.

Leo Lakio

January 3rd, 2008, 07:55 PM

Yeah, it can get pretty messy, getting a saltwater carwash. The majority of vehicles are out of the path of the waves - but not all of 'em.

I have a notoriously queasy gut, but fortunately, I've never needed a barf bag on a Washington State Ferry, even on rough sailings. Now, being at the top of the Space Needle on a windy day, that's another story, as that thing sways noticeably.

(Love your "edit" line, btw...)

LikaNui

January 3rd, 2008, 08:32 PM

Yeah, it can get pretty messy, getting a saltwater carwash. The majority of vehicles are out of the path of the waves - but not all of 'em. Yeah, look at the front of the ferry, in the second photo. Wiiiiide open to all the water and spray. Pretty amazing, especially when you look at that second photo first and look at the first photo second, and imagine all that water going straight into that huge gaping opening. Yikes! :eek:

I have a notoriously queasy gut How do you do on the road to Hana?

Now, being at the top of the Space Needle on a windy day, that's another story, as that thing sways noticeably. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
Had to wash the t-shirt.

(Love your "edit" line, btw...) Thanks. I didn't know if anyone actually reads those, but figured it was good for a giggle. :( Oops, I meant :p

Leo Lakio

January 3rd, 2008, 08:36 PM

How do you do on the road to Hana?Haven't gone yet. When I do, I'd better be the driver; that helps.

joshuatree

January 3rd, 2008, 10:34 PM

I look at the pics and I see how close land is, all those trees in the nearby background. And to think all the criticism the ferry has to contend with especially when it has to deal with the open ocean and winter swells. Anti-ferry folks need some perspective. :rolleyes:

tutusue

January 3rd, 2008, 10:39 PM

Yeah, it can get pretty messy, getting a saltwater carwash. The majority of vehicles are out of the path of the waves - but not all of 'em.[...]
Heh! Reminds me of my Makaha condo's parking garage during the winter! :eek:

Leo Lakio

January 4th, 2008, 08:20 AM

I look at the pics and I see how close land is, all those trees in the nearby background.Correct - these ferries are travelling on inland waters - they aren't designed for the open sea. (Heck, several of them are so old, they can't even ply the inland waters any longer; one route had ALL of its boats pulled out late last year (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/commuter_updates/index.cfm?fuseaction=press_releases_content&press_release_id=548) - imagine the hassle if you used that as a primary commuting route.) The ferries are open at both ends so they can go back and forth between their destination piers without having to turn around.

nachodaddy

January 4th, 2008, 12:24 PM

Yeah, look at the front of the ferry, in the second photo. Wiiiiide open to all the water and spray. Pretty amazing, especially when you look at that second photo first and look at the first photo second, and imagine all that water going straight into that huge gaping opening.

Those pictures are of the MV Cathlamet and she plies the water between Mukilteo and Clinton.

It is a short passage but you get a nice venturi effect with the wind in there so that sucks (or is is 'blows' ?). In keeping with the relative tightness of the pass, the current howls through there as well and when both are peaking and not playing nicely, you can get in a lot of trouble if you don't know what you are doing.

I am on a ferry 2-3 times a week. So far no baths on the routes I take, but then again, I pick my routes closely.

Google 'Deception Pass'. It gets up to 9 knots there.

The one that will put me on the beach (or wrapped around a piling) is Agate Pass. My waterborne waterloo. Good lingcod and cabezon holes there, tho. :)

LikaNui

January 4th, 2008, 04:20 PM

SuperFerry is going to start making two trips per day to Maui, according to this Breaking News item (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Jan/04/br/br1982635740.html) on the Advertiser's website. Full story is at the link, but it includes:
Hawaii Superferry announced Friday that it is further delaying resumption of service linking Honolulu and Kaua'i, but will instead start a second voyage between Honolulu and Maui, starting Jan. 16.
Hawaii Superferry president and CEO John Garibaldi said the Honolulu-Kaua'i service is important to the company which has provided Hawaii with its first interisland vehicle and passenger service.
"We've decided, however, to initiate a second voyage to Maui sooner in order to allow more time in which to work with the community on Kauai to ensure a safe and successful resumption of service," Garibaldi said. "As we have always stated, our business model is dependent on running two trips per day, and right now we've got to meet those needs."
(...)
The second Honolulu-Maui run will be Sundays through Fridays. The $95 million, 350-foot Alakai, which can carry more than 800 passengers and 200 vehicles, will leave Honolulu at 3:15 p.m., arriving in Kahului Harbor at 7 p.m. It will depart Kahului at 8 p.m. and arrive in Honolulu Harbor at 11 p.m.
The current service will continue to operate seven days a week, departing Honolulu at 6:30 a.m. and arriving Kahului at 10:15 a.m., and then leaving Kahului at 11:15 a.m. and reaching Honolulu at 2:15 p.m.
"A second voyage to Maui will benefit our customers who want the convenience of having an afternoon voyage," Garibaldi said. "The second voyage also will greatly benefit our commercial customers, giving them more flexibility in reaching their markets."
(...)

joshuatree

January 4th, 2008, 06:36 PM

"The second voyage also will greatly benefit our commercial customers, giving them more flexibility in reaching their markets."

That's a key point. If they can entice more commercial customers with the higher frequency, they can sustain themselves even with lower passenger count.

joshuatree

January 5th, 2008, 08:05 AM

Island airfares (http://starbulletin.com/2008/01/05/news/story01.html) have gone up to $49. So now the ferry has the cheapest ticket for a passenger. And if anti-go! folks succeed in kicking out go!, I think people will be more thankful the ferry stuck around.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 10:14 AM

I just realize the Superferry is too big. It has the maximum capacity to carry 800 passengers?

Does it have to be that big to handle the rough water of Hawai'i?

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 11:52 AM

I just realize the Superferry is too big. It has the maximum capacity to carry 800 passengers? Does it have to be that big to handle the rough water of Hawai'i? No, not because of rough waters, though the bigger the boat, the smoother (and faster) the ride. But everyone will be thrilled with the big size when the next Hurricane Iniki hits and the big boat can easily transport emergency supplies and equipment and so forth. Ditto for forest fires, earthquakes, tsunamis, et al. The big fast SuperFerry will be the hero.
And I believe we'll see regular ridership double (or more) as spring and summer get here.
I'll also bet that another consideration when they chose the size was its resale value, if things don't work out here. I'm sure they explored contingency plans and alternate locations, and picked a one-size-fits-all.
I think SuperFerry is just the right size.

By the way, they also announced today that they're extending the $39 fare offer for an extra three months! Hooray!!!

mel

January 5th, 2008, 03:02 PM

Speaking of emergencies, the Superferry will finally move the National Guard emergency equipment from Oahu to Maui tomorrow afternoon.

An estimated 27 pieces of Hawaii National Guard heavy engineer equipment to include a Bulldozer, Bobcat mini-loaders, dump trucks, and SEEs (mini-excavators) are scheduled to travel to Maui via Hawaii Superferry on January 7th. The next day, Oahu-based National Guard personnel will join 49 Maui Guardsmen to begin extensive debris removal work. The equipment will be used to assist in the cleanup of areas affected on Maui after heavy rains caused excessive flooding and debris in early December.

The above was cut and pasted from a press release that was forwarded to me.

It is a good thing that Superferry has decided to stay with their base fare of $39 for a few more months. That is not very short of the fare estimate they were going to run with from the time they thought about starting service way back in 2004.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 10:52 PM

I think SuperFerry is just the right size.
Perhaps, but I still think it's too big if SuperFerry should decided to service a Moloka'i route in the far* future.

*Like when I need mobilized wheelchair future.

helen

January 5th, 2008, 10:59 PM

acousticlady

January 6th, 2008, 04:01 PM

joshuatree

January 6th, 2008, 04:21 PM

I know this is wishful thinking, but I'd like to see a timetable set up with the 2 trips to be convienent for those who live in Maui and may have projects or jobs to do in Honolulu. I know I'd find it helpful to be able to hop on the ferry early in the morning with my car and be able to return later that day/evening. But I am probably the only one..........:(

Actually, that can be possible if the ferry decides to pull a red eye trip. Let's say boarding at Oahu around 11PM and then depart 12AM. Instead of 35 knots, let's say they do half the speed at around 17/18 knots. That would make the trip from 3 hrs into 6 hrs. Pull into Maui around 6 ish. Then return back to Oahu at normal speed. Second trip will be at regular speed. Wonder if people would like that schedule? Can the ship run for so many hours and still have adequate time for maintenance?

LikaNui

January 13th, 2008, 02:23 PM

A few bits from this story (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080113/NEWS07/801130356/1001/NEWS07) in today's Advertiser:
Maui kids cruise to museum on Superferry
Last night, 10-year-old Kaleinani Kamali'i had one of those memories that will last a lifetime: a sleepover at the Bishop Museum following a three-hour cruise from her home on Maui.
But it may have Kaleinani's grandmother, Jane Kamali'i, who was more thrilled by the trip.
"It's an awesome idea. Very exciting," Jane said.
The two were among 38 youngsters and seven adults from the Boys and Girls Club of Maui who got to spend the night in the museum's science center as part of a new program offered by the Hawaii Superferry.
The idea, company officials said yesterday, is to provide occasional free transportation to deserving nonprofit groups traveling between islands for educational purposes. The company expects to offer such trips to other groups about once a month, said Lani Olds, Superferry's director of customer experience.
For the Maui youngsters, some of them making their first trip to O'ahu, the 24-hour experience offered a little something for everyone: adventure (and video games) on the open sea, history lessons, a chance to see the Islands from the ocean as the first Hawaiians might have, a hands-on night in the museum's Science Adventure Center and planetarium, time in the gift shop, and an early morning (5 a.m.!) wake-up call for a trip back home.
(...)
Olds said the ferry's Manta Explorer program is designed to help youngsters continue learning about the islands. For the inaugural voyage, the company partnered with the museum and Polynesian Adventure Tours, which donated the services of a 57-passenger bus and driver from Maui to accompany the children on the ferry and give them a lift to the museum.
(...)

Much more at the link above.
I wonder if those Maui protesters were there b*tching about this too. :rolleyes:

mel

January 13th, 2008, 03:31 PM

One of the Superferry execs told me last week that the protests at Maui have pretty much died out.

LikaNui

January 13th, 2008, 05:19 PM

One of the Superferry execs told me last week that the protests at Maui have pretty much died out. Typical protester action. As soon as the media stop covering them, they stop protesting. :rolleyes:
Anybody know if there's a website that has ridership figures? I'm curious about the daily number of passengers and cars going each way.

Menehune Man

January 13th, 2008, 07:27 PM

I was working last night at the museum. We're always at work more than at home, eh?!

The kids had a blast. Didn't know it was gonna be in the newspapers though.
Must admit quite a few were queasy for a while upon arrival, but were fine.

mel

January 13th, 2008, 09:05 PM

Anybody know if there's a website that has ridership figures? I'm curious about the daily number of passengers and cars going each way.

While I was shooting pics (http://www.flickr.com/photos/macprohawaii/sets/72157603657088672/) for HawaiiReporter.com (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?a7857809-9bb3-4481-a316-b5638a865e60) last weekend, I asked the same exec (http://www.flickr.com/photos/macprohawaii/2173821597/) how their passenger loads were. He said they "were less than expected" for this time of the year. He elaborated that the weather and holidays contributed to the slow start but expects numbers to pick up as time progresses.

I think Superferry has 2 marketing plans, one to reach island travelers and another to reach Hawaii's business community. They had a booth at last week Wednesday's Small Business Hawaii conference where 2 sets of printed materials were available to inform the 2 different groups. Plus they had a nice mock-up of the Superferry itself.

LikaNui

January 14th, 2008, 05:25 PM

Very sad Breaking News (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Jan/14/br/br8097163524.html) story about the cargo plane that crashed off of Kauai this morning. I hope they find the pilot, but the chances are pretty slim. The story includes this:
The Alpine Air plane that crashed this morning off Kaua'i was carrying approximately 4,200 pounds of U.S. mail, U.S. Postal Service spokesman Duke Gonzales said. The cargo was likely a mix of mail from Hawai'i, the Mainland and international points, he said.
Some of the mail has been recovered, and any salvageable pieces will be delivered, Gonzales said.
Two to three flights a day carry mail to Kaua'i, he said. Alpine Air is subcontracted by Postal Service contractor Corporate Air to fly mail to several destinations within the state.

I'm wondering if this mail delivery service couldn't be done for Maui and Kauai (and, later, the Big Island) on the SuperFerry... cheaper, more reliably, and safer.
Whatcha think?

GeckoGeek

January 14th, 2008, 11:18 PM

helen

January 14th, 2008, 11:36 PM

I'm wondering if this mail delivery service couldn't be done for Maui and Kauai (and, later, the Big Island) on the SuperFerry... cheaper, more reliably, and safer.
Whatcha think?
I don't know if it would be any cheaper overall, while the cost of transport services might be cheaper, you would have to pay a person to accompany the mail on the SuperFerry as well and also pay living expensives while on the other island since they have to stay overnight and then go back on the return trip the next day (or a group of them actually).

The way it's done now (I am assuming), the people handling the mail on the ground don't have to travel with the mail while it's flying on the plane.

joshuatree

January 15th, 2008, 10:13 AM

So it appears the ferry has postponed the 2nd daily trip to Maui. Can't help but say the one step forward, two steps back isn't helping their business. :confused:

tutusue

January 15th, 2008, 10:34 AM

I have an outer island friend who has put together a Super Ferry trip for two of her outer island friends, early Feb. They all have their airline tickets to fly to Honolulu, spend the night then take the afternoon SF to Maui where 2 friends live. My friend would then fly from Maui back to the BI. Of course, that's changed now and they're canceling their trips and trying to get their airfares refunded. None are interested in the SF's early departure. :(

oceanpacific

January 15th, 2008, 11:48 AM

One of the Superferry execs told me last week that the protests at Maui have pretty much died out.

So, where were the protesters when the National Guard used the Superferry to "mobilize" on their "aina?"

Miulang

January 15th, 2008, 06:11 PM

So, where were the protesters when the National Guard used the Superferry to "mobilize" on their "aina?"
Busy working their two jobs to stay alive.:p
And most of the heavy work had already been done in the weeks before their arrival by the Maui NG contingent.

GeckoGeek

January 16th, 2008, 12:01 AM

Can't help but say the one step forward, two steps back isn't helping their business. :confused:

Yeah, so far they don't seem to be someone I'd want to depend on. I suppose they are trying not to anger Maui too much, but the issues raised seem like so much crying.

Miulang

January 16th, 2008, 06:37 PM

I dunno if the concerns of the Neighbor Island folks are so manini. This is an excerpt of notes taken by an observer at the last Superferry Task Force meeting (held last week).

Hawaii Superferry Oversight Task Force Meeting 1/10/08

[...] Dept of Ag rep Domingo Cravalho reported on their monitoring. Since DOA got no additional funds, they had to stagger schedules of staff to do the early morning monitoring on Oahu. They also did trainings with HSF staff on several islands. They have a hotline to report invasive species: 643-7378 (643-PEST). He handed out a powerpoint and photos.

DOA monitored 15 round trips O'ahu to Maui:
O'ahu to Maui leg:
2813 passangers
901 vehicles
14 instances - 39 dead bees (no mites detected)
6 instances of seeds
1 instance - 50 orchids without certification
1 case leaf litter
1 case fishing nets

Maui to Oahu leg:
2440 passangers
736 vehicles
9 instances - 67 bees (no mites detected)
7 cases of seeds
2 cases of uncertified plants (lavender and coconut)
5 instances - 9 vehicles with excessive mud
2 instances - 2 vehicles with sand and soil

DOCARE (DLNR) - Randy Awo reported that on 1/10/08, 2 cars intercepted with opihi, (One car had 5 bags of opihi hidden in a cooler under some other stuff.). 1 car with ogo.....Awo suggested that all govt enforcement officers be given power to do random searches/inspections of passengers and cars. OTF voted to recommend legislation that grants enforcement including DOCARE, DOA, etc to do searches and increase funding for these programs. Garibaldi and OHalloran both looked at each other and made funny faces....

OHalloran reported that from 12/13/07 to 1/6/08 HSF made 21 RT Oahu to Maui.
Oahu to Maui leg averaged 167 passengers and 53 vehicles.
Maui to Oahu leg averaged 157 passengers and 47 vehicles.
They sailed south of Molokai on four out of the 12 voyages in 2008.

Rest of excerpted notes (some discussion apparently will be kept confidential): http://hisuperferry.blogspot.com/

joshuatree

January 16th, 2008, 06:41 PM

Miulang

January 16th, 2008, 06:57 PM

What would the tally be for the same time period for planes or the barges or the cargo ships? If we can get those numbers, then we have some comparison. Otherwise, this doesn't tell us anything about manini or not.

I dunno what you're asking. But here's the daily sailing schedule for Kahului Harbor: http://hawaii.gov/dot/harbors/maui/mashipschedule.pdf. As for the airports, this might help: http://hawaii.gov/dot/airports/publications/cysmallone.pdf

I don't know where you can find comparables, because the State apparently doesn't think having the data readily available is a requirement, and the Division of Airports seems to be purging its archives.

The point of the Steering Committee Report is that some of the fears that the protestors were expressing (like the 'opihi, limu, fishing nets, dirty cars, etc.) are in fact happening, even though HSF on its website clearly specifies what can and cannot be brought aboard the boat and the condition of the vehicles it transports. And although the instances of cars caught with 'opihi and limu is small, you know it's these kinds of incidents that paint ALL people on the boat in a negative light.

joshuatree

January 16th, 2008, 07:14 PM

Miulang

January 17th, 2008, 04:27 PM

I'm asking for the numbers on the same observed incidences for the planes, barges, or cargo ships in that same time frame. Otherwise, there's no real comparison to define what's manini or not.

We all know the same stuff gets through by the other modes of transport, so is the recorded numbers a bad thing or a reflection that the ferry is catching and filtering out the banned items?
It's going to be hard to find that information because the DoA and DLNR haven't (until the HSF fiasco) really been doing much enforcement because they are short staffed. I believe there is a bill that is being submitted to the Legislature this session by one of the Maui representatives to get more funding for more DLNR agents and to give them and all other State inspectors the right to inspect and open all cargo.

GeckoGeek

January 18th, 2008, 12:22 AM

It's going to be hard to find that information because the DoA and DLNR haven't (until the HSF fiasco) really been doing much enforcement because they are short staffed.

Well, there you go. Seems like once again HSF is getting singled out. If you're going to do inspections, do it across the board because the bad guys will just go where the enforcement isn't.

Miulang

January 18th, 2008, 07:23 PM

Well, there you go. Seems like once again HSF is getting singled out. If you're going to do inspections, do it across the board because the bad guys will just go where the enforcement isn't.
That will change if some of the Maui contingent to the Legislature actually introduce the bills they had on their "wish list". One of them was to increase funding to hire more DLNR agents and another was to give the DLNR and DoA agents the authority to inspect all cargo coming aboard planes, commercial boats and barges.

Miulang

January 19th, 2008, 08:54 AM

joshuatree

January 19th, 2008, 02:02 PM

The draft of the 2030 Master Plan for Kahului Commercial Harbor has now been released by the OEQC (http://oeqc.doh.hawaii.gov/Shared%20Documents/EA%20AND%20EIS%20ONLINE%20LIBRARY/Maui/2007-12-23%20DEIS%20Kahului%20Harbor%202030%20Master%20Pla n.pdf). The alternative chosen by the DOT is the one that will create a brand new pier on the west breakwater. There will be more protests (beginning on Jan. 23) by surfers, paddlers and fishermen over the location of this new pier because it will destroy the surf breaks within the harbor and potentially eliminate the canoe course and restrict access to the small boat ramp by fishermen.

Construction of the new pier is estimated to cost more than THREE HUNDRED MILLION dollars to provide facilities for HSF and NCL.

And what is your position on this plan? Yay or ney?

Seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Now that there is a plan to provide adequate facilities for marine pax operations (NCL/HSF/whatver else) and to keep cargo separate, people are griping over that too. But when the state decided to take shortcuts and leave things as they are with a floating barge, people griped.

Miulang

January 19th, 2008, 03:04 PM

And what is your position on this plan? Yay or ney?

Seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Now that there is a plan to provide adequate facilities for marine pax operations (NCL/HSF/whatver else) and to keep cargo separate, people are griping over that too. But when the state decided to take shortcuts and leave things as they are with a floating barge, people griped.
I'd rather have all cruise passengers disembark on the Lahaina side because the Kahului Harbor area has virtually no tourist amenities (unless you call Maui Mall and Kaahumanu Center "tourist attractions"). Lahaina has all the touristy stuff right there in their harbor, and Princess Lines already moors its ships offshore there and ferries its passengers to Lahaina on smaller skiffs.

Leave Kahului Harbor for cargo only so there's enough room to expand. If they do build a new passenger terminal on the west breakwater, for sure foot passengers on the ferry and cruise ship passengers will need to be ferried from the pier over to Maui Mall or Kaahumanu because both are so far away. At least where NCL and HSF dock today, it's within walking distance of both shopping malls (although for cruise ship passengers it's kind of dangerous because they have to walk along Hobron, which has no sidewalks).

The current DOT Director (Michael Formby) in a backhanded kind of way basically said in the Maui News the other day that until there is a permanent dock for the ferry, there will continue to be problems. Do people realize that now the DOT has hired the services of one of the tugs now stationed in Kahului Harbor to keep the barge stable enough so cars can drive off and on the ferry? And that renting the tug costs anywhere from $1,000-2,000 an hour? (They need the tug to push the barge against the pier as long as the ferry is docked). Another added unexpected expense.

LikaNui

January 19th, 2008, 04:43 PM

From The Maui News (http://www.mauinews.com/news/2008/1/19/04alar0119.html):
Alakai returns to Kahului Harbor with no problems
KAHULUI – The Hawaii Superferry resumed service to Kahului Harbor on Friday morning with its damaged docking barge back in service.
Following two days of large ocean swells and heavy surge that forced Superferry to cancel operations, the Alakai made its way into Kahului as scheduled and with no problems on Friday, ferry officials said.
State Department of Transportation spokesman Scott Ishikawa said the ferry’s damaged docking barge was put back into place after inspection on Thursday. He said the “damage was not as extensive as initially feared.”
Ishikawa said that a damaged fender guard that was attached to the ferry’s docking barge was removed.
The 10-square-foot fender had hit the pier during the high surf earlier this week.
Ishikawa said there were no damages to the barge and the fender was not necessary to the barge or the ferry’s operations.
(...)

LikaNui

January 19th, 2008, 04:49 PM

Do people realize that now the DOT has hired the services of one of the tugs now stationed in Kahului Harbor to keep the barge stable enough so cars can drive off and on the ferry? And that renting the tug costs anywhere from $1,000-2,000 an hour? (They need the tug to push the barge against the pier as long as the ferry is docked). Another added unexpected expense. And where is the link that shows us that a tug is needed every single day, and not just during the rare heavy north swells?
I believe the latter is true, and that an unverified implication that a tug is needed every single day is a fraudulent and intentional misrepresentation of the facts. Again. :rolleyes:
I'll be more than happy to apologize if anyone can prove me wrong.

Miulang

January 19th, 2008, 07:03 PM

From yesterday's Maui News (http://www.mauinews.com/news/2008/1/18/01docd0118.html)

Until a permanent ferry dock is installed, the Coast Guard has approved the use of a harbor tugboat to assist during ferry operations to hold the barge snug against the pier.

Formby said he didn’t have specific costs for the Superferry service, but said it costs $1,000 to $2,000 an hour to operate the tugs, which also assist other vessels in entering and exiting the harbor.

For the Superferry docking barge, he said, the tugboat is needed only when the ferry will be docking. He said the use of the tug is essential to keep the docking barge stable while cars are on-loading and off-loading onto the barge and the pier.

Apology accepted.:p

mel

January 19th, 2008, 10:19 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2253/2113827936_1ecf255ccf.jpg

I don't know if this tug is there everyday, but it certainly was on Dec. 13 when I took the Superferry on a one-day round trip to Maui and back. The water in the harbor was pretty flat that day but choppy outside.

GeckoGeek

January 20th, 2008, 12:10 AM

One of them was to increase funding to hire more DLNR agents

Fine

and another was to give the DLNR and DoA agents the authority to inspect all cargo coming aboard planes, commercial boats and barges.

Well now, how does that compare to inspection rights in other domestic travel?

Miulang

January 20th, 2008, 08:25 AM

Fine

Well now, how does that compare to inspection rights in other domestic travel?
They mean this to "level the playing field" so that all modes of transportation are treated equally. I seriously doubt there is anyone in Hawaii who doesn't believe that invasive species (especially) are a danger. As for the 'opihi, limu and fishing nets, that is in the province of DLNR, which is responsible for managing the natural resources, as well as the kanaka maoli's rights to things like 'opihi and limu as part of their culture.

GeckoGeek

January 20th, 2008, 09:55 AM

They mean this to "level the playing field" so that all modes of transportation are treated equally.

That's the part I said "fine" to.

What I'm questioning is how broad are other inspections in the US? On the surface, this one seems rather invasive. I'm wondering what personal rights are we giving up here? Is this in line with the agriculture inspections already done to/from Hawaii or is this even more?

Miulang

January 20th, 2008, 10:09 AM

That's the part I said "fine" to.

What I'm questioning is how broad are other inspections in the US? On the surface, this one seems rather invasive. I'm wondering what personal rights are we giving up here? Is this in line with the agriculture inspections already done to/from Hawaii or is this even more?

Hawaii ag inspections are far more stringent than anywhere else in the US simply because it would be theoretically easier to keep invasive species out of the 'aina due to its geographic isolation (the continental US has no barriers like 3,000 miles of ocean to protect it).

However, what we learned from DoA during the Maui HSF hearings and the Legislative hearings, DoA doesn't have the right to open up sealed containers coming in from outside the US (particularly China). All the inspectors can do is check the manifests to see what is in the containers. That's how a brown spider hitchhiked from China to Kalaeloa...in a shipment of boulders from China that is being used to shore up a pier at Kalaeloa.

Even for domestic (intrastate) shipments, the DoA can't open up most containers to inspect individual items, although they can visually look through slats in the containers, etc. The only exceptions might be for ag products like Christmas trees where they do actually shake down trees in a secured inspection area prior to allowing them to be released to the buyers. But if there aren't any ag products involved, and because of the scarcity of DoA inspectors and the large numbers of containers being shipped daily (80% of all goods are shipped in from outside the State), it wouldn't be practical to inspect each and every container right now.

joshuatree

January 20th, 2008, 10:21 AM

Hawaii ag inspections are far more stringent than anywhere else in the US simply because it would be theoretically easier to keep invasive species out of the 'aina due to its geographic isolation (the continental US has no barriers like 3,000 miles of ocean to protect it).

However, what we learned from DoA during the Maui HSF hearings and the Legislative hearings, DoA doesn't have the right to open up sealed containers coming in from outside the US (particularly China). All the inspectors can do is check the manifests to see what is in the containers. That's how a brown spider hitchhiked from China to Kalaeloa...in a shipment of boulders from China that is being used to shore up a pier at Kalaeloa.

Even for domestic (intrastate) shipments, the DoA can't open up most containers to inspect individual items, although they can visually look through slats in the containers, etc. The only exceptions might be for ag products like Christmas trees where they do actually shake down trees in a secured inspection area prior to allowing them to be released to the buyers. But if there aren't any ag products involved, and because of the scarcity of DoA inspectors and the large numbers of containers being shipped daily (80% of all goods are shipped in from outside the State), it wouldn't be practical to inspect each and every container right now.

Would irradiation kill these stowaways? If it would, how expensive would it be to build a container sized oven so each container runs through it? But then, I guess you need an oven sized X-ray machine to make sure you don't have any human stowaways before you zap it. :p

Miulang

January 20th, 2008, 10:41 AM

Miulang

January 20th, 2008, 12:03 PM

Would irradiation kill these stowaways? If it would, how expensive would it be to build a container sized oven so each container runs through it? But then, I guess you need an oven sized X-ray machine to make sure you don't have any human stowaways before you zap it. :p
I think I read somewhere in one of the stories about the embargoed Christmas tree shipments from Oregon that the growers said you can't irradiate the Douglas firs because it will cause the needles to drop. So in the case of Christmas trees anyway, it sounds like the plan they came up with (inspections in Oregon prior to containerization and then inspection in Hawaii in refrigerated secured inspection areas) may be the only way to maintain the integrity of the trees. Wasps "hibernate" in cold weather, so inspecting the trees in a refrigerated cargo container will isolate them while they are sleeping and make it easier to find them and remove them safely.

Best option is to embargo Christmas trees from the Mainland, period. Either buy locally grown trees if you need a real tree (like the Norfolks from Helemano Farms) or stick to fake ones.

LikaNui

January 20th, 2008, 01:44 PM

And where is the link that shows us that a tug is needed every single day, and not just during the rare heavy north swells?
I believe the latter is true, and that an unverified implication that a tug is needed every single day is a fraudulent and intentional misrepresentation of the facts. Again. :rolleyes:
I'll be more than happy to apologize if anyone can prove me wrong.

From yesterday's Maui News (http://www.mauinews.com/news/2008/1/18/01docd0118.html)

Apology accepted.

Not so fast, Miulang. You see, you've been busted. Or as Ashton Kutcher would say, "You've been punk'd!" GOTCHA!!! :p
The apology is not for you, Miulang -- it's for the readers of this thread who weren't in on the ploy (the successful ploy) to "out" you.
Many of us here on HT have long been upset at the way you mislead innocent readers. The plot was hatched up by one of those upset HT members. You, Miulang, have successfully avoided admitting countless of your misrepresentations (some people call them "lies") and you've avoided answering hard questions by your claim that you had me on "Ignore." You pretended that you never saw my posts. So to out you, it was suggested that I intentionally post something wrong, with an offer of a apology. And sure enough, you fell for the bait, hook line and sinker!
From your home near Seattle, you continue to think those of us who live here don't read/watch the news. Well, that tugboat item was all over the news here, and you should've realized that I'd clearly know that. We put some really smelly cheese in that trap, and you bit it anyway. Far from having me on "Ignore", you answered my post almost immediately, thinking you'd put me in a corner and make me apologize to you, when in actuality you proved that you have intentionally avoided my posts showing that you'd been wrong on so many things about the SuperFerry. You didn't have me on Ignore... you had me on Avoid. Bwaaaahahahahaha! :D
Dozens and dozens of times, you've avoided answering hard questions in these SuperFerry threads, and you've posted flagrantly incorrect and misleading information. You quoted portions of articles, trying to justify your own attacks on the SuperFerry, but many (nay, most) times a few of us actually went to the links and found that the crux of the story was actually far different than the iota you'd quote.
You said, from your home near Seattle, that the Maui farmers were rabidly against the SuperFerry, but I provided links that showed exactly the opposite -- their entire organization supports the SuperFerry.
Your funniest one was when you flamed SuperFerry for not having Wifi, though I immediately proved that they had it all along... and yet you still claimed that SuperFerry had just added Wifi because of your post! Hilarious!
Countless other examples, and some day when I have time to kill I'll go through the threads and list all the examples of your "mistakes" and especially a list of the questions you refused to answer because you allegedly had me on Ignore, which you yourself just helped prove was yet another of your lies.
GOTCHA.

Miulang

January 20th, 2008, 02:06 PM

Countless other examples, and some day when I have time to kill I'll go through the threads and list all the examples of your "mistakes" and especially a list of the questions you refused to answer because you allegedly had me on Ignore, which you yourself just helped prove was yet another of your lies.
GOTCHA.

Whatevas. The point is, if you "punked me", you are just a troll. And I did have you on ignore for a very long time. Guess I'll have to put you back on. You are a vindictive SOB, aren't you?:rolleyes:

LikaNui

January 20th, 2008, 03:29 PM

Whatevas. Ah. You plead Guilty, then. Well, you were caught in flagrante delicto, so Guilty was the only possible result. You are hereby sentenced to 100 hours of community service. In other words, step away from the computer and from wrongly attacking SuperFerry, and instead spend 100 hours volunteering somewhere that will help your Seattle community. That would be nice. And honorable.

I did have you on ignore for a very long time. Really? We're supposed to believe you now? And somehow you took me off Ignore just at the very moment you thought I'd goofed for the first time and that you'd get an apology from me? It's a miracle! Heck, you avoided me again just a couple of days ago, but you just happened to take me off Ignore yesterday?!? The timing of you taking me off Ignore is indeed nothing short of a MIRACLE. :rolleyes:
Oh. Wait. I'm looking out my window, and I don't see any flying pigs. None at all.

Guess I'll have to put you back on. Yeah. Sure. There's not a single reader who's gonna believe THAT. Especially now.

You are a vindictive SOB, aren't you? Ooh, resorting to profanity. Looks like we touched a Hot Button, all right.
As for me being "vindictive," well, I have this habit of calling Bullsh*t when I see it. I'm one of those who's willing to say The Emperor Has No Clothes. It pishes me off when people take advantage of, or attack, our HT friends. Ask Teeny Tadani. Ask the folks who caused the elevator problem at Canal House.
And now it's you. You've willfully, maliciously and repeatedly misled readers here with misinformation, irregardless of the fact that so many of us have exposed your BS. So yes, you're firmly in our sights.
You written almost 9,000 posts here on HT, making you by far the most verbose member. (The creator of HT has almost a third less posts, and only a couple of folks are over 5,000, with everyone else far below that.) You've averaged 7 posts each and every single day for the past 4 years. :eek:
Don't act surprised that you're on the radar of those of us who respect HT. You asked for it.

Miulang

January 20th, 2008, 04:49 PM

Karen Chun of Save Kahului Harbor actually took the time to completely read and analyze the draft EIS for Kahului Commercial Harbor Year 2030. Here is the testimony she has submitted and will testify to at the public hearing on Jan. 23.

Karen Chun's testimony: http://www.savekahuluiharbor.com/KarenChunEIScomments.doc

LikaNui

January 20th, 2008, 05:46 PM

Karen Chun of Save Kahului Harbor actually took the time to completely read and analyze the draft EIS for Kahului Commercial Harbor Year 2030. Here is the testimony she has submitted and will testify to at the public hearing on Jan. 23. That's just one Maui resident's opinion, and I see she feels she's more of an expert on harbor design than the Army Corps Of Engineers, who has built thousands of harbors.
And note that I wrote that she's a Maui "resident" and not a Maui "native." A very quick Google search found this site (http://www.redwoodgames.com/karen.html) about Karen Crowther Chun, which includes a photo of her and these tidbits:
Karen started out life in Palo Alto, California. She attended Gunn High School, which was so anxious to get rid of her that she graduated at age 16. Given the choice of staying home under her parents' watchful eyes or going to college, she started an abortive college career at the University of California at Berkeley in the midst of the '60's turmoil.
(...)
Fortunately, Western Area Power came to the rescue and Karen spent several happy years writing computer programs to plan resources for the vast array of California reservoirs and hydropower plants.
So. This California born-and-raised Berkeley hippie girl didn't mind helping to design powerplants that California residents protested against, but she moves to Maui late in her life and suddenly is a self-proclaimed expert on telling Hawaiians how to save their state?!? :rolleyes:

Nords

January 21st, 2008, 04:45 AM

You written almost 9,000 posts here on HT, making you by far the most verbose member. (The creator of HT has almost a third less posts, and only a couple of folks are over 5,000, with everyone else far below that.) You've averaged 7 posts each and every single day for the past 4 years. :eek:
Don't act surprised that you're on the radar of those of us who respect HT. You asked for it.
You're doing a good job at what you're doing, Lika, but lemme offer a different perspective. Besides, your quoting of Miulang is ruining it for the rest of us who have her on "Ignore".

I'm a Hawaii resident but a Pittsburgh "native". (Bleagh-- I've been back twice in 30 years but I escaped both times.) I'm trying to imagine myself spending four years reading the Pittsburgh newspapers every day, watching Pittsburgh TV & webcasts, and as an expat lurking on a Pittsburgh discussion board-- let alone being the top poster. It could imply that I'm having an acculturation problem with my local community or else it's possible that I'm spending all my free time putting up even bigger total-post numbers on other local boards. Whether I was living in the wrong place or spending all my time on websites, I would think that at some point I'd have to acknowledge that there's something wrong.

You've proved your point, and you've done a great job with that, but you've also fallen into the trap of validating the existence of someone who feels that this type of behavior is an appropriate use of their time & energy. No matter how successful the trap or how big & hairy its occupant, the fact is you've spent your time proving that a troll is a troll, and you've given them a very gratifying free publicity boost.

Rather than hounding a troll or wasting our your time trying to modify their behavior, in the long run perhaps it's better to just let them run in the muck amok. The conclusion is not in doubt but actions like yours could mean that the timeline is subject to delays & extensions. Eventually the troll's behavior will run off the rails, the moderators will have to step in, and at some point after that the trolls will cross the line. Once they're banned then we can all get on with our lives, but hassling them only delays the inevitable.

For more details on the discussion-board attention-craving phenomenon, take a look at the strange cases of Felicity Jane Lowde (http://nether-world.blogspot.com/2007/06/rachels-stalker-finally-locked-up.html) and Rob Bennett (http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/rob_bennett_know.html). I watched the latter destroy several discussion boards, including a big investment board at Morningstar, due to posters engaging him in his behavior.

So let's not feed the trolls.

infinitypro

January 21st, 2008, 09:32 AM

Countless other examples, and some day when I have time to kill I'll go through the threads and list all the examples of your "mistakes" and especially a list of the questions you refused to answer because you allegedly had me on Ignore, which you yourself just helped prove was yet another of your lies.
GOTCHA.

:D Classic, well-executed.

Back to the topic...

There has only been one person that I've encountered on Maui that's against HSF. His exact words, "I'm scared, scared of the bugs that may come." He couldn't explain preventing the same from happening on a barge or in a carry on bag on a flight.

One person.

mel

January 21st, 2008, 10:33 AM

joshuatree

January 21st, 2008, 10:52 AM

A little clarification, I see a lot of posts that the $39 fare doesn't include some huge fuel surcharge. But when I just tried to book OW with no car, I get $39 plus ~$4 in tax, PUC, and surcharge. So did the ferry cut back on the fuel surcharge or was there misinformation being spread around?

mel

January 21st, 2008, 11:43 AM

One of the nice things about online booking is that you can play with it up to a point just to see how much things cost. So I did right now and priced a one way trip to Maui on Superferry (http://www.hawaiisuperferry.com/) for May 4. Here is the resulting window I got:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f21/macpro75/alakai.jpg

No fuel surcharge as of today. The surcharge was waived since they started service in December with the $29 promo fare and the $39 fare with no surcharge still holds true.

So maybe now is the time to book if anyone is interested in sailing without the extra cost.

MixedPlateBroker

January 21st, 2008, 12:37 PM

I think I read somewhere in one of the stories about the embargoed Christmas tree shipments from Oregon that the growers said you can't irradiate the Douglas firs because it will cause the needles to drop. So in the case of Christmas trees anyway, it sounds like the plan they came up with (inspections in Oregon prior to containerization and then inspection in Hawaii in refrigerated secured inspection areas) may be the only way to maintain the integrity of the trees. Wasps "hibernate" in cold weather, so inspecting the trees in a refrigerated cargo container will isolate them while they are sleeping and make it easier to find them and remove them safely.

Best option is to embargo Christmas trees from the Mainland, period. Either buy locally grown trees if you need a real tree (like the Norfolks from Helemano Farms) or stick to fake ones.

I say the best option would be to pop a couple of those bug grenades in each container before shipping them off. No need to use a sledgehammer to pound in a nail.

I knew it was just a matter of time before market (and judicial :-P) forces would push interisland fares back above SF prices. Long live the Super Ferry!

helen

January 21st, 2008, 01:33 PM

has anyone here other than Blaine and myself, taken a Superferry trip? Anyone plan to do so in the near future? Or at least up and into the summer months? I expect smoother sailing conditions and more reliable service once the winter weather and rough wave season passes.
No. Right now no. I don't know. As it stands right now I have no reason to go Maui.

dick

January 21st, 2008, 04:58 PM

I've been on it for the inaugural voyage to Maui for the S-B.

I had a trip booked to take my car to Maui to visit mom, but that was when the court thing happened. The refund was quick and painless.

I'm planning a trip as soon as I can get some time off.

zztype

January 21st, 2008, 11:01 PM

I'm hoping to take the family over for the July 4 weekend to catch the Makawao Rodeo and visit my sister in Kula.

They don't book that far in advance, so we keep checking back. But that would seem to be a killer opportunity to check out the ferry and catch one of the great things about Maui.

If we have time, maybe run out to Hana for a bucket of 'opihi! :D

Blaine

oceanpacific

January 22nd, 2008, 12:32 AM

I will be booking a weekender in Maui sometime in April. Good chance I'll take a vehicle as the RT fare for the car ($110 + taxes) will likely be less than a car rental ($45/day x 3) AND the parking charge ($10/day x 3) at the Honolulu airport. Then, there's the convenience factor.

For the first time, we went with the artificial tree this past Christmas. :eek:

dick

January 22nd, 2008, 02:15 AM

I'm hoping to take the family over for the July 4 weekend to catch the Makawao Rodeo and visit my sister in Kula.

Dude, where in Kula? I'm born and raised there... and yeah, Makawao Rodeo is good fun. The parade is one of the best on the island, and hanging at Oskie Rice is good times. Might be time for another photo essay over there...

Nords

January 22nd, 2008, 05:03 AM

With all of that stuff out of the way, has anyone here other than Blaine and myself, taken a Superferry trip? Anyone plan to do so in the near future? Or at least up and into the summer months? I expect smoother sailing conditions and more reliable service once the winter weather and rough wave season passes.
No joyriding. I used to be paid to get seasick so I'm not motivated to do it voluntarily.

Now that the protests are subsiding, the SF staff are probably finding out all over again that they're competing with the airlines. I priced a two-day stay on Maui last October as only a good deal via SF if we slept in our car. Doing what we needed to do on Maui wasn't worth the extra $$ (let alone the civil-disobedience danger) of taking the ferry. But we hardly needed a car on that trip, let alone our own.

My next concern would be the amount of time involved. Sure, it's probably just as long to find airport parking, get through security, wait at the gate, and get clear of the arrival airport. However you're not stuck in traffic lanes waiting to park a car or leave a pier. Maybe this concern is overblown.

But the biggest issue with the SF was its schedule and travel convenience. Last Oct we would've had to struggle from Central Oahu to the pier at dawn's early crack through rush-hour traffic. Taking the plane meant we could go in mid-afternoon, right after school, and come home when we were ready (instead of on SF's schedule).

Don't know if we'll ride the SF this year or next. Our kid's high school breaks are filled with other activities & trips, and holoholo has taken a big-time backseat. We may not see a neighbor island for another couple years, let alone via SF "adventure travel".

zztype

January 22nd, 2008, 06:06 AM

Dude, where in Kula? I'm born and raised there... and yeah, Makawao Rodeo is good fun. The parade is one of the best on the island, and hanging at Oskie Rice is good times. Might be time for another photo essay over there...

Hui, Rich, they live on Lower Kimo Drive. I've never been to their house, but heard it was nice, with a big lot.

Yes, plug the photo essay with the editors, now! I would look forward to that one.

Blaine

LikaNui

January 22nd, 2008, 06:34 PM

Anyone see this article (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080122/NEWS09/801220345/1019/NEWS09) in the Advertiser today, about the Kahului Harbor expansion? It included these interesting comments:
The state Department of Transportation will face familiar foes as it pursues a $390 million plan to expand facilities at Kahului Harbor to provide much-needed berthing and storage space for cargo and passenger ships.
(...)
Chief among the concerns are the loss of popular surf spots, impacts on canoe paddling, fishing and other recreational uses, and overdevelopment.
(...)
But many business, government and community leaders say the harbor improvements aren't about growth but survival. Kahului Harbor, Maui's only deep-draft harbor, is the third busiest port in the state. The draft EIS said harbor capacity is most critical at the Maui port because of the rapid growth of the cruise ship industry, the new interisland ferry and the continued increase in cargo shipments.
The west breakwater is the site of a recreational boat ramp, a clubhouse for old-time boaters and fishermen, and a park.
Planning for the Maui port is complicated because the harbor is located in a developed area and land is scarce and expensive. The idea of creating a second commercial harbor on Maui was rejected due to cost and environmental and cultural impacts.
The draft EIS acknowledges that reaching consensus on harbor development is "an unrealistic goal" considering the diverse and competing interests involved in the planning. However, while wishing to respect recreational uses, the Maui Harbor Users Group agreed to give commercial cargo first priority.
The draft EIS for the 2030 Master Plan proposes two alternatives in addition to no action. Both of the action alternatives include development of the west breakwater to create piers and operational space, and changes to existing pier areas.
The preferred "Alternative A" would develop cruise ship and interisland ferry facilities at the west breakwater, including construction of an inner breakwater to limit wave action. At the east side of the harbor, Piers 1 and 2 would be lengthened for cargo operations, with a new fuel offloading facility built at Pier 3 or 4, and the breakwater extended outward by 900 feet. The estimated cost of the improvements is $390 million, according to the report.
"Alternative B," estimated at $359 million, would develop passenger facilities at Pier 2 and expand cargo facilities at Piers 1 and 3 and at the west breakwater.
(...)
Although the 2030 Master Plan does not propose displacing two of Maui's largest canoe clubs, Hawaiian and Na Kai Ewalu, the east harbor improvements would encroach on racing lanes used for paddling regattas. Security zones around ships at berth also would constrict areas used by club and individual paddlers and kayakers.

LikaNui

January 24th, 2008, 04:04 PM

From this story (http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2008/01/21/daily23.html) in Pacific Business News yesterday:

Kauai chamber members support Superferry

Hawaii Superferry on Wednesday said a Kauai Chamber of Commerce survey indicates support for interisland ferry transportation.
Nearly 80 percent of members surveyed by the chamber said they support the state Legislature's action in October that allowed the Superferry Alakai to resume service. Kauai Chamber of Commerce membership comprises 87 percent of small businesses on the Garden Isle.
Approximately 86 percent said the Superferry would help business on Kauai, while 73 percent said they would use the Alakai when it resumes service between Honolulu and Lihue.

LikaNui

February 3rd, 2008, 06:19 PM

A fascinating comment from a Molokai blog at this link (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3121886960642529613&postID=8067152303755458415) (scroll down to the last post there):
A point of information we found out today that out of the 17 protesters against the super ferry that were arrested on Kauai , 11 of them were from Molokai and were hired by Young Brothers just to protest the ferry.
That was posted in mid December. First I've heard of it. Anyone else hear that anywhere? Anything in the media?
If... IF... that story is true, that would be a major blockbuster. :eek:

cynsaligia

February 3rd, 2008, 09:59 PM

A fascinating comment from a Molokai blog at this link (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3121886960642529613&postID=8067152303755458415) (scroll down to the last post there):

That was posted in mid December. First I've heard of it. Anyone else hear that anywhere? Anything in the media?
If... IF... that story is true, that would be a major blockbuster. :eek:

wow! nudge the dailies that way & investigated, stat! i'm very interested to find out if that's true. if it is, then a good number of us hawaii residents throughout the islands have very good reason to be angry.

GeckoGeek

February 3rd, 2008, 10:54 PM

If... IF... that story is true, that would be a major blockbuster. :eek:

Oh, YES. If true, I wonder if YB violated any laws?

Leo Lakio

February 4th, 2008, 08:47 AM

If... IF... that story is true, that would be a major blockbuster.i'm very interested to find out if that's true. if it is, then a good number of us hawaii residents throughout the islands have very good reason to be angry.Oh, YES. If true, I wonder if YB violated any laws?That's an anonymous blog comment, nearly two months old, by a guy from San Diego who owns a condo in Hawai`i. Not the most reliable source, I think you'd agree.

Still yet --- it would be nice to know if there was any follow-up on this claim, but it sounds like unsubstantiated grumbling.

Miulang

February 4th, 2008, 05:20 PM

More vexing than any rumors is the fact that HSF appears to be suffering from some structural defects in its rudder system, and had it not been for KITV asking about it, HSF probably would have attributed its being tied up at the dock completely to bad weather. It's either a structural defect that they need to fix quickly if Austal USA is going to win that JHSV contract from the DoD in 6 months, or the damage was sustained by colliding with a whale. Either way, it's serious, and neither the HA nor the SB has bothered to investigate it. We're talking about the safety of passengers and crew.

LikaNui

February 4th, 2008, 09:25 PM

More vexing than any rumors is the fact that HSF appears to be suffering from some structural defects in its rudder system, Clearly you have absolutely zero familiarity with boats and ships. These kind of things happen all the time. The marine environment is extremely harsh, and repairs are a daily part of life. No big thing. It's not like the ship was going to flip over and break in two. There was a hairline crack in a rudder housing. [/yawn]
Try learning the difference between a rudder and a rudder housing.

and had it not been for KITV asking about it, HSF probably would have attributed its being tied up at the dock completely to bad weather. Nonsense. Sheer and utter nonsense. As usual.
And what makes you think KITV was the first?

It's either a structural defect that they need to fix quickly if Austal USA is going to win that JHSV contract from the DoD in 6 months, or the damage was sustained by colliding with a whale. It's not a "structural defect," it was routine wear and tear. And it's already been fixed. Guess you 'missed' those little items. :rolleyes:
As for your guess that it hit a whale, please explain why not even any of the environmental and whale protection groups have made that claim. You're the first. As usual.

Either way, it's serious, and neither the HA nor the SB has bothered to investigate it. We're talking about the safety of passengers and crew. No, it is not serious. And both papers had daily coverage of the repair. There's nothing to "investigate." Hey, I saw a bus with a flat tire yesterday... where's the investigation?
And please clarify how that minor rudder problem could possibly affect the safety of passengers and crew. Sheer and utter bullsh*t!!!!!!! Your typical scare tactics.
:mad:

Menehune Man

February 4th, 2008, 10:37 PM

If it works out for my wife and I, we'll head over to Maui for a few days this summer! I'll try the SuperFerry then, since it didn't go for me and a buddy last December.

I hope so! :D

Oh yeah, and Likanui's right about wear and tear on boats.

LikaNui

February 5th, 2008, 08:37 AM

Likanui's right about wear and tear on boats. Thanks, and I apologize to almost everyone for going ballistic last night, even though it was well deserved.
Also, in my haste last night I forgot to add the critically important fact that the SuperFerry is steered by movable waterjets, and the rudders are just a secondary steering system for use at very low speeds in conjunction with the waterjets. Add the SuperFerry's bow and stern thrusters to the steering equation and it's outrageously clear that Miulang's post was just more "Chicken Little/sky is falling" nonsense.
For decades, I've steered ships using only the trim tabs and thrusters, without ever touching the rudders.

Miulang

February 5th, 2008, 11:04 AM

For anybody who cares and is technically inclined, check out the technical details (http://www.islandbreath.org/) on the "rudder" problems of HSF. Also, check out the video (not a computer generated fake) of HSF on one of its voyages (talk about "Hawaiian Roller Coaster Ride"!) that was shot by George Peabody, and which was also aired by KGMB.

craigwatanabe

February 5th, 2008, 11:44 AM

Thanks, and I apologize to almost everyone for going ballistic last night, even though it was well deserved.
Also, in my haste last night I forgot to add the critically important fact that the SuperFerry is steered by movable waterjets, and the rudders are just a secondary steering system for use at very low speeds in conjunction with the waterjets. Add the SuperFerry's bow and stern thrusters to the steering equation and it's outrageously clear that Miulang's post was just more "Chicken Little/sky is falling" nonsense.
For decades, I've steered ships using only the trim tabs and thrusters, without ever touching the rudders.

Lika, you should try the rudders, it works.:D

Oops sorry Miulang you had to see that one.

LikaNui

February 5th, 2008, 01:56 PM

Lika, you should try the rudders, it works.:D It does? So that's what that wheel thing is for! :p
I could tell you some funny stories, but they'll have to wait for another time or another thread. I'm about to respond to the post just before yours and rip it limb from limb.

craigwatanabe

February 5th, 2008, 01:59 PM

It does? So that's what that wheel thing is for! :p
I could tell you some funny stories, but they'll have to wait for another time or another thread. I'm about to respond to the post just before yours and rip it limb from limb.

I swear (F*CK) there I said it...but anyway the way the two of you go at each other, you two should be married:eek:

LikaNui

February 5th, 2008, 03:29 PM

For anybody who cares and is technically inclined, check out the technical details (http://www.islandbreath.org/) on the "rudder" problems of HSF. Oh boy! Shredding this one is gonna be FUN. And so easy, too!
Let's start with the fact that Miulang "conveniently forgot" to mention that the link she gave was to a site created and run by one of the Kauai protesters... and that he (Juan Wilson) clearly states he knows almost nothing about boats and ships! (As I'll quote here shortly.) As someone who does care and is technically inclined, I find that link to be laughable at best, pitiful at worst, and useless in general.
Let's look at some quotes from Miulang's link.
The link starts with a photograph of some rudders... and a caption that says "image above: not the Superferry stern. Rudder post sleeve alignment on another ship." Well, yeah. And so a photo of a totally different ship is helpful... how? Sheesh.
When I stopped laughing, I unfathomably (pun intended) kept reading.
The item begins with "I just got a phone call from Tim Rysdale, of Wailua. He was one of those arrested back in August in the aftermath of the Superferry's attempt to land on Kauai." Okay. Clearly ol' Tim is not an impartial source of information.
"As I understood Tim's description, these rudders are hydraulically rotated through sleeved posts that enter the ship through the aluminum hull. Stress on the posts created cracks that allowed some water to enter the ferry's hull." Clearly Tim and Juan and Miulang don't know anything at all about boats and they don't understand what packing glands and stuffing boxes are. To keep it simple, let's just remember that rudder posts (and engine shafts) go through holes in the bottom of ships. These holes are (gasp) UNDERWATER. Therefore all boats have packing glands and stuffing boxes to keep out most of the water. MOST of the water. They are designed to drip. That's why God (or was it Noah?) made bilge pumps and the float switches that activate them automatically and pump those drips back overboard, through fittings called "through-hulls" that are above the waterline. This is what keeps shafts and rudder posts lubricated. That's the simplified version of a highly complex issue.
Anyway. More from Juan:
"With my limited knowledge of ship design, and structural metals, I would maintain that this represents an engineering flaw that has resulted in at least a minor structural failing of the hull." See? There's that quote I mentioned before, where Juan admits he doesn't know anything about his topic. Brilliant. Sheesh. Yet he has the bawls to call it an "engineering flaw"? Get outta here! And he calls it a "structural failing of the hull"? It has zero to do with a hull failure!
Next is another photograph. The caption says "image above: Close up of rudder post entering hull of ship. Again, not the Superfrerry." Well, then what the hell is the point? I will say, though, that I give Juan credit for being honest about saying that all these photos have nothing to do with the SuperFerry. But oops, he loses those honesty points (and more) for including the irrelevant photos in the first place.
Juan then provides 14 seconds of video footage "of the Superferry Alakai leaving Kahului Harbor on its last run to Ohau a week ago, before the "rudder" damage was detected." Uh, yeah. That video was taken at the height of the giant waves that closed Kahului Harbor, and it was taken at the single roughest part of the harbor entrance. A useless waste of 14 seconds. It proves nothing. Further, there is no way of knowing whether that is what caused the hairline cracks in the rudder housing or not; they could well have been there for weeks or even months.
(And by the way, Juan, it's "O`ahu" and not "Ohau.")
Next up is another photo, and once again it's a different ship. And a different type of ship, at that.
"Speculation: The surface cracks that were reported might be on the stern transom (the flat termination to the stern, above the water line) that the interceptors are mounted to. If this were the case it indeed would be a disastrous structural failure of the Superferry's aluminum hull design." Ah yes. Speculation. No wonder Miulang liked the link. And by the way, "stern transom" is from the Department Of Redundancy Department. There is no thing as a bow transom, nor any such thing as a side transom. It's always, you know, at the stern. Just another sign that these folks know nothing. (And transoms include the stern area below the waterline, Juan.)
They go on to discuss motion control systems, and are honest enough to admit that what they're discussing is not at all what the SuperFerry has... even though it's in a link slamming the SuperFerry. If there was a point there, then... no, never mind. There simply was no point there.
"It seems likely that similar interceptors are used by the Superferry. The interceptors are fairly, simple devices. I guess is that the Superferry them mounted near the output of the 4 water jets. To turn the vessel the Interceptors on one side are lowered a short distance into the water which increases the drag on that side of the vessel - so it turns toward the other side." Pure speculation from rank amateurs, again. And those "interceptors" are exactly what I discussed before -- TRIM TABS. They are what put the boat up on plane, reducing drag and increasing fuel efficiency. And they can be used to steer the boat, if needed.
"But "interceptors" are not the same as rudders. Does the Superferrv also have more conventional rudders?" Again, we see that these folks simply don't have the first clue of what they're talking about. All this bitching, and they don't even know if the ferry HAS rudders!!! I'm laughing my a** off here!
"When Superferry officials refer to rudder damage, does this really mean damage to the interceptors?" No, grasshopper, it does not.
"And when they stated that "the rudders serve to make only slight course adjustments" were they dead wrong or just trying to minimize a serious problem?" No, the were dead RIGHT.
"Does HSF know the difference between a "rudder" and an "interceptor"?" Well, let's see. They're spending almost $200 MILLION for two ships, so maybe... just maybe... they know the difference? Jesu Christo.
The link goes on with more photos of ships totally unlike the SuperFerry.
Juan writes at one point "I seem to remember a photo of the Superferry catamaran bows showing a T-Foil on each. However, I have not been able to locate that image." No reply needed to that one.
Then he goes on to ask if the water jets are the same as rudders. Hell no they're not.
And that's more than enough. Miulang's link proved itself to be a load of nonsense written by someone who hasn't the slightest inkling of what they're seeing or saying.
And remember, folks, that Miulang wanted us to see the "technical details" at that link! That is freaking HILARIOUS!
Thanks for sharing that with us, Miulang. :rolleyes:

LikaNui

February 8th, 2008, 05:18 PM

Breaking news (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080208/BREAKING01/80208066):
Hawaii Superferry will suspend service for at least two weeks starting Feb. 13 as it repairs its rudders.
The Superferry has been plagued by cancellations in the past two months, mostly due to bad weather or problems with the Maui harbor.
The company said today it would put the ship in dry dock for "approximately two weeks" for repairs related to the vessel's auxiliary rudders.
The company said it was "taking advantage of the off-peak travel season" to make the repairs. It said the repairs to the rudders will enhance passenger comfort.
"Voyages have been canceled during this period, with service expected to resume March 3," the company said.
Passengers with reservations for the two weeks will get a refund or a ticket for a later date.
"We appreciate the patience and understanding of our passengers while our vessel is out of service," said Lani Olds, a spokeswoman for the Hawaii Superferry.

Miulang

February 9th, 2008, 09:32 AM

:rolleyes:

LikaNui

February 9th, 2008, 10:34 AM

:rolleyes: Wow. Apparently the Ignore function isn't working? :p

Anyway. The Star-Bulletin had even more info (http://starbulletin.com/2008/02/09/news/story04.html) today, including:
The company said the mandatory annual dry dock, originally scheduled for May, was moved up to Wednesday through March 2 to take advantage of the off-peak travel season and to make permanent repairs related to the ship's auxiliary rudders.
(...)
He said the rudders, which are used to improve passenger comfort and fuel efficiency, were removed for an interim repair but that the Superferry found that without them the ride suffered.
"So we thought we'd just move up the timetable and do permanent repairs on the rudders and maximize our passenger comfort and take care of our annual dry-dock requirement at the same time," O'Halloran said.
So. It's a MANDATORY annual haul-out. And even though the AUXILIARY rudders were COMPLETELY REMOVED last week, the SuperFerry has continued to make its daily runs in complete safety, and WILL CONTINUE to make daily runs until the haulout next Wednesday.
I sure don't see anything for the SuperFerry whiners to complain about. They claim the problem is an engineering flaw that endangers the lives of passengers and crew, yet in truth it's an engineering accomplishment that the ship has run just fine with the backup rudders completely removed.
Well done, SuperFerry team!