Hawaiian Electric and the poles falling over

[escondido100]

Whats up with all the power poles that have recently fallen over? One event even killed somebody. HECO says they inspect the nearly 70,000 poles on oahu at least every six years.....WHAT? I'd say they need to be inspected every year. one spokesman says that if people want to pay more they will inspect more. WHAT? I say that they are putting profits over public safety. Dont you think not having your power poles rot away and fall on people and killing them is "owning a power company 101"
oahu is not alone in this problem.....it happens on the big island enough to be worrisome as well.
i am sure that Heco's business model is for increased profits every year and that there model is based upon the expenses of the current inspection schedule that isnt working very well.....some one is going to have to talk to the stockholders and let them know that it is time for some capital to be put back into their investments so that they dont KILL people. Many places in th eworld that have problems with wooden pole are going exclusivly with concrete poles manufactured locally. Costa Rica adeveloping third world country has gone this route and is providing jobs and these poles wont rot.
I have friend in oregon who is now retired from Pacific Power....his job was to inspect all the poles in a large geographic area....larger than oahu.... he inspected the poles once year....and they had a subcontractor inspect the poles that where taller than 70'.....but all poles where inspected annually.... rarely did they have poles fallover.only during the worst storms was there any issues.
what say you?

[Random]

I could speculate that someone is trying to save or skim money by purchasing cheaper quality wooden poles.

[helen]

Did HECO said that they have a group of people dedicated to just inspecting poles or is that someone "other duties as assigned"?

[tutusue]

Some of the downed poles in Nanakuli were poles that were replaced just last year.

[GeckoGeek]

We might want to have a few facts in hand on why the poles fell over. Many of the recent ones were due to strong winds.

[Zovo]

Some of the downed poles in Nanakuli were poles that were replaced just last year.


Yeah, I remember seeing them mention this on the news; that a good number of the poles which fell over in in the Nanakuli area had only recently been replaced. There is no reason brand new poles should be falling over, even in high winds.

When I lived on the mainland, we lived right at the mouth of the Columbia Gorge. Every Autumn we had multiple windstorms that put the winds that did so much damage in Nanakuli to shame and I have never, in my whole 26 years of living there, seen even one pole come down without the aid of a treebranch or whole tree toppling into it.

The fact that these brand new poles came down because of a little wind means there is something seriously wrong with the installation. Additionally, you occasionally see these poles along the road that are broken and kind of just lashed to another pole. . . that's just cutting corners and they are asking for disaster.

[kamuelakea]

It all helps with overtime pay at Hawaiian Electric. Good for business.

[Random]

We might want to have a few facts in hand on why the poles fell over. Many of the recent ones were due to strong winds.
Weren't those recent ones new poles that have only been installed a year or two ago? The old poles have stood up against strong winds many times before. It was the infestation of termites that contributed their downfall.

Did HECO suddenly go cheap on purchasing poles?

[buzz1941]

All poles alongside highways should be rerouted into underground conduits. It's a security and safety issue as much as a power issue. I know it's expensive in the short run, but it could be done incrementally whenever road work is being done.

When Kam highway into Kailua was dug up to accomodate underground wiring for light poles, the utility lines on both sides of the road were left in place. Stupid.

[GeckoGeek]

The fact that these brand new poles came down because of a little wind means there is something seriously wrong with the installation.

First thing I'd ask is what wind speed they were designed to withstand and what they experienced.


Additionally, you occasionally see these poles along the road that are broken and kind of just lashed to another pole. . . that's just cutting corners and they are asking for disaster.

More then likely it's a patch job to hold up the old pole until the other utilities (telephone, cable, street lighting) can move their wires to the new pole.


It was the infestation of termites that contributed their downfall.

Are you stating this as speculation or fact? I haven't heard they were attacked by termites.

Did HECO suddenly go cheap on purchasing poles?

It may not be in issue of cheap. In some cases, old methods of termite treating are no longer allowed. New methods are not always so effective.


All poles alongside highways should be rerouted into underground conduits.

It protects them from wind, but can expose them to water. They also take longer to replace if they fail. Not to mention they cost a lot more. Everything is a trade-off.

[Zovo]

First thing I'd ask is what wind speed they were designed to withstand and what they experienced.

It's a log, piledriven into the ground. If it tipped over then it wasn't driven deep enough. Surely the porous, rocky, terrain in the Nanakuli area could have been a factor, but if they couldn't dig deep enough, then they should have installed anchor mounts.

If the pole broke then it was poorly treated. Sure while a tree is alive it can withstand significant pounding from winds (you don't often see tree trunks breaking). But once it's cut down it loses some structural integrity which is why they need to be weather treated, or they rot. I'd be willing to bet that their close proximity to the ocean and salt water could have played a factor, but these things should have been taken into consideration when they were installed. Telephone poles are often treated with a tar (I'm sure you're aware of this), surely in recent years the price of petroleum based tar has gone up. It may be personal bias, but I wouldn't put it past HECO to skimp on expensive tar-based treatment and just save a few bucks and pick up some Thompson's Waterseal. :P

More then likely it's a patch job to hold up the old pole until the other utilities (telephone, cable, street lighting) can move their wires to the new pole.

Should a patch job remain a patch job for more than a year? I've only been on island for about a year and a half, and there are multiple poles that have been in this state of disrepair the entire time.

[GeckoGeek]

Should a patch job remain a patch job for more than a year? I've only been on island for about a year and a half, and there are multiple poles that have been in this state of disrepair the entire time.

I wouldn't expect it to be that long. Take a look at what is attached to what. If everything is on one pole, that's not the issue. If something is still attached to the old pole, that service is the hold-up. Given the coordination that has to go on, I wouldn't be too surprised to see something slip though the system.

Telephone poles are often treated with a tar (I'm sure you're aware of this),

Creosote. I'd be more interested to know what environmental issues have been found with that that might prevent HECO from using it on new poles.

[Zovo]

I wouldn't expect it to be that long. Take a look at what is attached to what. If everything is on one pole, that's not the issue. If something is still attached to the old pole, that service is the hold-up. Given the coordination that has to go on, I wouldn't be too surprised to see something slip though the system.

Regardless, a pole lashed to another pole creates undue stress on the pole.

Creosote. I'd be more interested to know what environmental issues have been found with that that might prevent HECO from using it on new poles.

Interesting. I've always thought it was a petroleum based tar. Color me wrong. However, a quick google search:

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts85.html#bookmark03

[Nords]

All poles alongside highways should be rerouted into underground conduits. It's a security and safety issue as much as a power issue. I know it's expensive in the short run, but it could be done incrementally whenever road work is being done.
It'd be interesting to hear how much HECO customers would pay for that compared to the cost of having crews living in Nanakuli every November.

Depends on the voltage, too. Some of the higher-voltage lines on transmission poles have to be separated by distance to avoid electric/magnetic-field interaction, and I bet it's not so easy to shield them for underground transmission. But I don't know if that's the case for the greater metropolitan areas along Farrington Hwy.

[joshuatree]

As a compromise between the expensive cost of running underground and the failure of wooden poles, why not concrete poles with rebar? No trenching involved and surely, concrete will stand up to the weather better.

[buzz1941]

It'd be interesting to hear how much HECO customers would pay for that compared to the cost of having crews living in Nanakuli every November.


Federal funds would be available to help, as this is also a public safety, health and security issue. When the poles fall, they not only cut off power and utilities, they isolate communities.

[GeckoGeek]

Some of the higher-voltage lines on transmission poles have to be separated by distance to avoid electric/magnetic-field interaction,

I don't know about that. As far as I know the only issue with overhead wires is that they use the air as the insulator so the higher the voltage, the further apart the wires are kept. Magnetic fields are a function of current, not voltage. Higher voltages means lower current for the same power transfer.

But when you put the wires in underground, you have to use something else as an insulator - and it will eventually break down. And it's harder to inspect and replace.