WWJD? SMU Courts June Jones [Archive]

Pua'i Mana'o

January 2nd, 2008, 12:18 PM

you are on to it.

If there was anything that the fb squad (inc coaches) has been vocal about, is their appeal to upgrade facilities and recruiting budget. If I worked in that office, I would be spending this holiday running a spreadsheet and passing that sucka around all those hgea listservs, so that it finds its way into the legislature, and the newspapers, and prove to the state what kind of economic (and morale!) benefit our uh fb program provides.

If there was a website to donate directly for these two causes, I would paypal over $100 at this minute.

</big mofo hint>

nachodaddy

January 2nd, 2008, 01:07 PM

Consider the SMU offer the shot across the bow that UH needs.

JJ will say 'no' on this one, as he should, but who will come calling next? And there will be a 'next' for those who chose to keep their heads in the sand.

$50,000 a year recruiting budget?? Please....... that is a long weekend for Notre Dame or USC. Boosters, step up.

WAC to Conference USA is a push. WAC to BCS conference school? That will get the gears turning in June's head for sure.

Random

January 2nd, 2008, 01:32 PM

Personally, I like WAC to do better than those BCS conference programs, just to slap them in their places.

Mike_Lowery

January 2nd, 2008, 03:07 PM

If he leaves, that would suck for Hawaii. Available coaches who would be willing to coach here are slim pickin's.

scrivener

January 2nd, 2008, 03:24 PM

UH to SMU is either a push or a step down. SMU has something of a storied history but hasn't been much for quite some time. I think UH gets the edge because when you coach there, you get to live in Hawaii.

But Jones has taken steps down before. Don't forget he was the active head coach of the San Diego Chargers before he came here. But leaving San Diego to come to Hawaii and leaving Hawaii to go to SMU are two completely different stories. I'm with nachodaddy on this one. This offer is nothing to be concerned about; it's the next few that should be interesting.

Pua'i Mana'o

January 2nd, 2008, 03:31 PM

Southern Meth used to have a great football team; back when Olivia Newton-John was all the rage starring in that epic flick Xanadu.

I'm still peeeeesed.

Random

January 2nd, 2008, 07:42 PM

But Jones has taken steps down before. Don't forget he was the active head coach of the San Diego Chargers before he came here. But leaving San Diego to come to Hawaii and leaving Hawaii to go to SMU are two completely different stories. I'm with nachodaddy on this one. This offer is nothing to be concerned about; it's the next few that should be interesting.
You mean like what Neil Everett said on KGMB9 6pm News? The only offer he may consider must have the word "NFL" attached to it?

Kittrick

January 2nd, 2008, 08:22 PM

If UH can give JJ a better training facility ... even fix up little things like the shower room ... I think he'd be willing to say "no thanks" to SMU.

I'm really surprised that the UH boosters haven't made a plea to the public for donations. They could easily raise 1M dollars if they had a television fundraiser or some other kind of fundraiser and publicized it as "save June Jones!"

Wasn't SMU the college at the top of the world of college football in the late 80's that got caught in a really bad recruiting scandal including the paying of players?

The Southern Methodist University football program, the most punished in NCAA history, received the harshest sanctions ever – including suspension for the 1987 season – when the NCAA announced its precedent-setting decision Wednesday...

In addition to a ban on games, practice and scholarships for the 1987-88 academic year, the National Collegiate Athletic Association restricted SMU to seven games in 1988 – none of which may be considered a "home" game – and limited its scholarships, coaching positions and television and post-season appearances through the length of the probation, which expires Sept. 1, 1990...

The Committee on Infractions report uncovered "stipulated" violations that 13 football players were paid approximately $47,000 during the 1985-86 academic year and that eight student-athletes continued to receive payments from September to December 1986 of about $14,000.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spe/2004/feb25football/smu.html

Does June Jones really want to be associated with that kind of program?

LikaNui

January 2nd, 2008, 09:01 PM

Wasn't SMU the college at the top of the world of college football in the late 80's that got caught in a really bad recruiting scandal including the paying of players? Does June Jones really want to be associated with that kind of program? 22 years ago is pretty much in the category of "ancient history." Ya think?

Mike_Lowery

January 2nd, 2008, 09:14 PM

22 years ago is pretty much in the category of "ancient history." Ya think?
Good point. SMU was subjected to stuff like that back when Eric Dickerson and other players from the Pony Express days were in school, and a few years after.

Hawaii has NCAA infractions more often than you think. Most of it is quietly leaked--if at all--to the media. But, I don't think Hawaii has done anything as bad as paying players, allowing contact with agents, etc.

Pua'i Mana'o

January 2nd, 2008, 09:16 PM

I'm really surprised that the UH boosters haven't made a plea to the public for donations. They could easily raise 1M dollars if they had a television fundraiser or some other kind of fundraiser and publicized it as "save June Jones!"

that's not it, and I would bet the ranch on this hunch.

take those extra donations (of the hypothetical bazillion dollars) and pour it into facilities and recruiting funds. It ain't the paycheck; its the respect and lattitude to help the man do his job. He needs the 'ohana and needs the Hawaiian lifestyle, but he needs Hawai'i to meet him halfway and give him the tools to succeed further.

Listen to what the man and his boys have been saying. And provide him that.

GeckoGeek

January 2nd, 2008, 10:06 PM

If I worked in that office, I would be spending this holiday running a spreadsheet and passing that sucka around all those hgea listservs, so that it finds its way into the legislature, and the newspapers, and prove to the state what kind of economic (and morale!) benefit our uh fb program provides.

OK, throw a clue to the clueless. Who's money are we talking about spending and what is the economic benefit?

Pua'i Mana'o

January 3rd, 2008, 08:25 AM

<Napoleon Dynomite>

Thank you, Admin, for changing my thread title. It's so much better now.

</serious nasal voice>

Random

January 3rd, 2008, 07:30 PM

Does June Jones really want to be associated with that kind of program?
Only if JJ is allowed to run the program the way he want. Like LikaNui said, it's ancient history.

I don't know if he can make a quick decision to leave. The SMU offer is good for 72 hours. Stoopid move on SMU's part, unless they want him to make a rash decision and leave no room to change his mind after.

Lei Liko

January 4th, 2008, 01:43 PM

He's off to SMU tomorrow to meet with SMU officials! http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Jan/04/br/br8536471029.html

Kittrick

January 4th, 2008, 03:04 PM

Here's to hoping June Jones, if he takes the SMU job, pulls his best Nick Saban or Bobby Petrino impersonation and decides to come back after knowing it was a mistake to take the money!

nachodaddy

January 4th, 2008, 04:31 PM

Here's to hoping June Jones, if he takes the SMU job....

Can someone please help me with a little Island venacular.

Would June be 'pupule' or would he be 'lolo' to take this job?

I have always had trouble with the subtleties between these two..............

LikaNui

January 4th, 2008, 05:09 PM

KITV just reported that UH offered June Jones $1.1 million last night, and that there is no guarantee of improvements for the facilities.
We already know that SMU is expected to offer up to $2 million... almost double the UH offer.
The chance to double his income may be irresistible, especially given drastically better facilities at SMU and ten times the recruiting budget ($500,000 at SMU versus the measly $50,000 at UH).

And add this to the mix -- Davone Bess just announced that he will not return for his senior season and instead is turning pro. :(
Could be just one more reason Jones would head to SMU.

Random

January 4th, 2008, 05:22 PM

And add this to the mix -- Davone Bess just announced that he will not return for his senior season and instead is turning pro. :(
That sucks. Was hoping he would do what Colt did last season.

No promise to improve the facilities. Is this the UH Chancellor's way of committing to keep JJ here?

LikaNui

January 4th, 2008, 05:53 PM

I don't recall which Hawai`i reporter made this claim last week, but... apparently UH still hasn't finished construction of June Jones' office, even after all these years! :eek:
The reporter said something about unfinished drywall, or damaged drywall, or something similar. The story was that June Jones has lived with it because he'd rather have UH spend the money on the team instead of his own office. (Very classy.)
Herman Frazier still should've seen that the job got finished! (Very not classy.)

As I said, without recalling who reported the story or where, I can't justify swearing that it's true. Maybe someone else hear heard it or knows a link?

Anyway, click on this link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/ncaa/01/04/hawaii.bess.ap/index.html) for Sports Illustrated's story about Davone Bess turning pro.
Without Colt and Bess, June Jones may (rightfully) feel that he can't possibly do any better than the season that just ended, so this would be the ideal time for him to move on. :(

If UH re-hires Fred Von Appen, I'm moving to Siberia. :p

glossyp

January 5th, 2008, 07:10 AM

Considering Jones, it seems to me that he enjoys the challenge of building a team and during this process an unfinished office, inferior facilities and questionably motivated colleagues (Frazier) are not so important. Once the team reaches the point that UH has, the issues become pressing and the fact that they have not been addressed is more than enough to send someone who likes team building off on the next adventure. SMU was a football powerhouse and I think the opportunity to reestablish that legacy may be too tempting, never mind the money.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 12:08 PM

Frazier et al must be getting nervous! They've already raised their offer to June Jones, according to this Breaking News item (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Jan/05/br/br8654291370.html) posted an hour ago on the Advertiser site, which includes:
The University of Hawaii has made head football coach June Jones a contract offer that will make him the highest-paid coach in either the Western Athletic Conference or the Mountain West Conference, UH athletic director Herman Frazier said this morning.
UH President David McClain, UH-Manoa Chancellor Virginia Hinshaw and Frazier collectively made the offer to Jones directly and later to his agent Leigh Steinberg after up to eight strategy meetings in hopes of retaining UH's winningest football coach.
(...)
While UH would not release the amount of its offer figures provided by UH show that Fresno State's Pat Hill is the highest-paid WAC coach, earning a salary of $1,229,996.
The UH offer to Jones was made late last night and was the second offer in a 24-hour period.
UH made the second proposal without having heard back from Steinberg on the first proposal, which was made yesterday and was in the $1.1 million range.
(...)
Frazier said he asked Jones to call him before making a final decision.
(...)
Gee, clever negotiating trick, Frazier. :rolleyes: Now Jones and his agent know for sure that you haven't made your best offer to them.

Pua'i Mana'o

January 5th, 2008, 04:24 PM

I think JJ would rather have imProvements, Polynesians and Paradise than Ponies, Porsches and Probation.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 05:06 PM

Probation? You talking about SMU? That was 20 years ago. Ancient history.
And in any event...
Moments ago, the lead story on KITV's 5pm news is that several friends and family of June Jones claim they received an e-mail from him today saying that he has resigned from UH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :(
(Herman Frazier denies it.)
Jones supposedly said that money was not the reason, instead it was the lack of improving the facilities and other infrastructure issues.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 05:13 PM

The resignation story that aired on KITV isn't on their website yet, but KHON has it at this link (http://www.khon2.com/news/local/13291062.html).

Random

January 5th, 2008, 05:16 PM

Moments ago, the lead story on KITV's 5pm news is that several friends and family of June Jones claim they received an e-mail from him today saying that he has resigned from UH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :(
(Herman Frazier denies it.)
That's because Herman Failure is not opening JJ's envelope on his desk. Kinda like what I do when I receive an envelope from a collection agency.

Sighs. Now I remember why I'm not a betting man.

The story also broke on KGMB9.

If JJ goes, Herman gotta go.

If by some great miracle (like being visited by three Hawaiian ghosts) JJ stays, Herman still gotta go.

That leaves the UH Chancellor Virginia Hinshaw.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 05:19 PM

The resignation story that aired on KITV isn't on their website yet, but KHON has it at this link (http://www.khon2.com/news/local/13291062.html).
Sooo... Shall I expect a smirk or chuckle from Joe Moore come Monday on 5:30 or 6pm?

U'ilani

January 5th, 2008, 05:29 PM

I just read this story at The Honolulu Advertiser (http://honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage).

June Jones has resigned as University of Hawaii head football coach according to his close friend, Al Souza. Jones resigned this morning, citing among other things a lack of loyalty and commitent from athletic department leaders.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 05:49 PM

I hope Hawaii can convince Bill Callahan to coach here.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 05:51 PM

I hope Hawaii can convince Bill Callahan to coach here.
Wow. You're quicker than Herman Frazier. :rolleyes:

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 06:13 PM

Sooo... Shall I expect a smirk or chuckle from Joe Moore come Monday on 5:30 or 6pm? Beats me. I haven't watched Joe Moore for years. What has he had to say about all this?
Back to the resignation letter. Most sources refer to it as a "draft", but the Advertiser story implies that the resignation is a done deal. Maybe Herman Frazier intentionally hasn't opened his e-mail? :rolleyes:
The letter supposedly lists 19 reasons for the resignation, and not one them is about the money. Jones also names 5 people he recommends to replace himself.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 06:17 PM

I just thought that it's funny...JJ passes what, 90% of the time? And the last running he does is from Tim Tebow.

U'ilani

January 5th, 2008, 06:20 PM

From the Advertiser:Souza said Jones broke down in tears as he mulled his decision last night. "He cried like a baby," Souza said. "He doesn't want to leave."
But Souza said each item on a long list of Jones' requests for his staff and program was rejected, leading to Jones' emotional decision.
"This breaks his heart," Souza said.I can't imagine that the items on this list were so outrageous that not a single one was accepted. Why does UH hang on to Herman Frazier??

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 06:39 PM

Does anyone else remember that Hugh Yoshida had the same problems with the facilities when he was AD before Frazier?
Remember Colt having the cojones to complain to the media that there wasn't soap in the showers. And remember how ESPN blasted our facilities just a few weeks ago when they were here for the Washington game.
The problem goes higher than Frazier, clear to the top -- the Board Of Regents. They are the ones with the final say. Most of the rest of UH is also in need of major improvements, not just the athletic facilities.
And imagine what this does for recruiting. All those verbal commitments? How many will bail out with Jones leaving?

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 06:41 PM

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 06:59 PM

BOR is more concerned with academics than athletics. And of course that's exactly as it should be.
The problem is that when June Jones was hired, the BOR promised that a long list of things would be done, and not a single one has been done yet. That is, apparently, the specific reason (19 of 'em!) that Jones resigned.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 07:06 PM

And of course that's exactly as it should be.
The problem is that when June Jones was hired, the BOR promised that a long list of things would be done, and not a single one has been done yet. That is, apparently, the specific reason (19 of 'em!) that Jones resigned.
and BOR promised several other improvements on campus before JJ came, most of which have not yet begun. If JJ can't wait for these things to happen, then tough...he's not the only UH employee with needs. the UH system is hard up on cash.

But since the school did have a little BCS pay day due to JJ's work, who knows, the school could've started on fulfilling some of the promises that they made to him.

Frankie's Market

January 5th, 2008, 07:17 PM

The problem is that when June Jones was hired, the BOR promised that a long list of things would be done, and not a single one has been done yet. That is, apparently, the specific reason (19 of 'em!) that Jones resigned.

Perhaps there is more to the story than what is spelled out in the letter. Whatever. One thing that he had (note: past tense) at UH was job security. He probably could have coached here as long as he wanted. As long as he didn't have, like, 3-4 mediocre seasons in a row. At other places, you're already dangerously skating on thin ice if you fail to make a BCS bowl appearance a couple of years.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 07:43 PM

BOR promised several other improvements on campus before JJ came, most of which have not yet begun. If JJ can't wait for these things to happen, then tough...he's not the only UH employee with needs. the UH system is hard up on cash. Oh, I agree completely. Thought I made that clear earlier. However, the deplorable state of the UH system, and the reasons for it, are a discussion for another thread in a different section of HT, methinks.
As for June not waiting for things to happen, well, it has been 9 years already, so why would he or anyone think anything would ever change? Especially since June is well aware -- and agrees -- that academic needs come first.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 07:47 PM

One thing that he had (note: past tense) at UH was job security. He probably could have coached here as long as he wanted. As long as he didn't have, like, 3-4 mediocre seasons in a row. Well, how likely is it that we'll have another undefeated season? Not very. After what UH did this year, there's almost nowhere to go but down. :o

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 07:52 PM

Well, how likely is it that we'll have another undefeated season? Not very. After what UH did this year, there's almost nowhere to go but down. :o
It's possible. the schedule's made up through what, 2010? 2011, we just need another cake schedule :D

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 08:16 PM

It's possible. the schedule's made up through what, 2010? 2011, we just need another cake schedule :D Heh. But after what just happened with Georgia, it's clear to everyone that UH just isn't a BCS-caliber team. Even with a cake schedule and another undefeated season, I don't think we'd get as high in the various polls as we did this year. You agree?
And apparently SMU has already scheduled a press conference for tomorrow afternoon. June's agent has probably already worked out the details, and June's interview with SMU may just be a formality. :(

scrivener

January 5th, 2008, 08:19 PM

All of this stuff is very interesting, and of course we wish things for June Jones and the UHM football team could be as good as at other schools, but ultimately (and I mean ULTIMATELY), the question for the school, the legislature, and the people of Hawaii is how important is college football to the school and to the state?

We know how important it is at other schools, but do we really want to be Ohio State and Michigan? I mean, really? Do we want to be a school that pays its coach a HUGE sum of money to bring success to a football team? As a sports fan, of course I want to say yes, but as an educator, I want to say no.

I'm not saying that the nineteen demands, whatever they are, are not important. I'm saying that there must be a line somewhere, beyond which football becomes more important than education. I can't define it, but I know it's there. I know that boosters ponying (ha!) up ten million bucks in order to lure a big-time coach who will produce results is...disheartening. I don't want us to go there. I don't want that to be us, and I don't want that to be our boosters. The football team already pays for itself and most of the rest of the UH athletic program. This sounds to me like a successful program, win-loss record be damned. Having a team that represents the school and this state with class and dignity is much more important than wins. Wins are nice, but not at any cost.

I don't want to lose June Jones as head coach, but neither do I want us to lose sight of our priorities.

Pomai

January 5th, 2008, 08:26 PM

Than I'd say put in Cal Lee as head coach, who was one of the prospects JJ recommended (according to KHON2 tonight). Pay Cal what June was being paid, and laters with June Jones. Aloha Oe. Cal Lee will find a way to get the best players we can get into the program. And we'll still have spare change for improvements to UH's athletic facilities.

Crusaders!

All of this stuff is very interesting, and of course we wish things for June Jones and the UHM football team could be as good as at other schools, but ultimately (and I mean ULTIMATELY), the question for the school, the legislature, and the people of Hawaii is how important is college football to the school and to the state?

We know how important it is at other schools, but do we really want to be Ohio State and Michigan? I mean, really? Do we want to be a school that pays its coach a HUGE sum of money to bring success to a football team? As a sports fan, of course I want to say yes, but as an educator, I want to say no.

I'm not saying that the nineteen demands, whatever they are, are not important. I'm saying that there must be a line somewhere, beyond which football becomes more important than education. I can't define it, but I know it's there. I know that booster ponying (ha!) up ten million bucks in order to lure a big-time coach who will produce results is...disheartening. I don't want us to go there. I don't want that to be us, and I don't want that to be our boosters. The football team already pays for itself and most of the rest of the UH athletic program. This sounds to me like a successful program, win-loss record be damned. Having a team that represents the school and this state with class and dignity is much more important than wins. Wins are nice, but not at any cost.

I don't want to lose June Jones as head coach, but neither do I want us to lose sight of our priorities.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 08:36 PM

Heh. But after what just happened with Georgia, it's clear to everyone that UH just isn't a BCS-caliber team. Even with a cake schedule and another undefeated season, I don't think we'd get as high in the various polls as we did this year. You agree?
And apparently SMU has already scheduled a press conference for tomorrow afternoon. June's agent has probably already worked out the details, and June's interview with SMU may just be a formality. :(
If I had anything to do with it, I wouldn't have even put this past season's team in the top 15.

All of this stuff is very interesting, and of course we wish things for June Jones and the UHM football team could be as good as at other schools, but ultimately (and I mean ULTIMATELY), the question for the school, the legislature, and the people of Hawaii is how important is college football to the school and to the state?

We know how important it is at other schools, but do we really want to be Ohio State and Michigan? I mean, really? Do we want to be a school that pays its coach a HUGE sum of money to bring success to a football team? As a sports fan, of course I want to say yes, but as an educator, I want to say no.

I'm not saying that the nineteen demands, whatever they are, are not important. I'm saying that there must be a line somewhere, beyond which football becomes more important than education. I can't define it, but I know it's there. I know that booster ponying (ha!) up ten million bucks in order to lure a big-time coach who will produce results is...disheartening. I don't want us to go there. I don't want that to be us, and I don't want that to be our boosters. The football team already pays for itself and most of the rest of the UH athletic program. This sounds to me like a successful program, win-loss record be damned. Having a team that represents the school and this state with class and dignity is much more important than wins. Wins are nice, but not at any cost.

I don't want to lose June Jones as head coach, but neither do I want us to lose sight of our priorities.
Word. Sometimes schools (not just athletic departments) need to look at what direction they want to go. IMO, why try to turn Hawaii into "the Berkley of the Pacific" like a former UH president aimed for, or UH athletics into a Pac-10 caliber team? Let Hawaii be Hawaii.

Frankie's Market

January 5th, 2008, 08:43 PM

All of this stuff is very interesting, and of course we wish things for June Jones and the UHM football team could be as good as at other schools, but ultimately (and I mean ULTIMATELY), the question for the school, the legislature, and the people of Hawaii is how important is college football to the school and to the state?

We know how important it is at other schools, but do we really want to be Ohio State and Michigan? I mean, really? Do we want to be a school that pays its coach a HUGE sum of money to bring success to a football team? As a sports fan, of course I want to say yes, but as an educator, I want to say no.

The way I see it is,... if indeed the people of Hawaii wanted a perennial top 20 program like Ohio St., Michigan, and Texas, they wouldn't just say it with their lips. They would be saying it LOUDLY with their pocketbooks. Those other schools have boosters and a diehard fanbase. Hawaii? We have fair-weather fans who will abandon the team when it struggles. It's been proven time and again. It doesn't matter how many tickets a championship UH team has, whether it be football, basketball, volleyball, baseball. When those teams start losing, attendance goes down. It never fails. Mark my words. If Shoji's teams start to slip, even Wahine v-ball attendance would falter.

So to me, it's not a matter of priorities. If the sports fans of this state step up to the level of commitment that sports fans in other states have for their teams, the question of academics vs. athletics wouldn't be relevant. The sports fans would earmark their dollars towards supporting the teams while the university/state administrations are taking care of the academic needs, as they should be.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 08:48 PM

Here's a story from KGMB (http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/3110/148/) that includes:
KGMB9 has received a copy of a letter that Jones is said to have sent to UH Athletics Director Herman Frazier Saturday morning.
But KGMB9's Liz Chun just spoke to UH officials who said Frazier has not received the letter.
Here is part of what it says:

"It is been very hard the last few days thinking about the decision to leave a place that I love greatly -- but you and I have talked many times about things that have concerned me -- None of those things that concerned me were addressed in this offer...
I guess all I can say is that the way my contract talks have been handled, is kind of the reason I am tired and why I just need to go. He says it is a generous offer. But, it would have meant a lot to me, had this offer come after the bowl game last year or even before the season -- or had it come to me as late as the Washington game it would have said to me 'thanks June for a job well done'
There would have been no negotiating -- I probably would have signed it and never let it get to this point.
Hawaii will always have my heart and that is why this is so hard for me -- but just the fact I am going to get on that plane to Dallas says it all.
I do not want to go -- believe me -- but it is time to go. Mahalo, June."
In his letter, Jones also lists five people as possible replacements: Kevin Gilbride, Dick Tomey, Duane Akina, Norm Chow and Cal Lee.

Pomai

January 5th, 2008, 08:48 PM

OK, placing the "burden" on the fans is stepping overboard. PPV was already a slap in the face, and now you're saying us fans should be doing "more" ("step up to the level")? What?!!!!

So to me, it's not a matter of priorities. If the sports fans of this state step up to the level of commitment that sports fans in other states have for their teams, the question of academics vs. athletics wouldn't be relevant. The sports fans would earmark their dollars towards supporting the teams while the university/state administrations are taking care of the academic needs, as they should be.

scrivener

January 5th, 2008, 08:51 PM

Here's a story from KGMB (http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/3110/148/) that includes:
Something about that letter doesn't sound right. It might be the Norm Chow / Dick Tomey part.

Frankie's Market

January 5th, 2008, 08:52 PM

OK, placing the "burden" on the fans is stepping overboard. PPV was already a slap in the face, and now you're saying us fans should be doing "more"? What?!!!!

So your definition of a "fan" is someone who stays home and watches the game on TV rather than going out and buying tickets?

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why UH will never be a perennial top 20 football program.

Pomai

January 5th, 2008, 08:58 PM

So your definition of a "fan" is someone who stays home and watches the game on TV rather than going out and buying tickets?

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why UH will never be a perennial top 20 football program.

That's a good point. But still, I think there are ways around this. It just takes a good "business quarterback".

scrivener

January 5th, 2008, 08:59 PM

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 09:02 PM

So your definition of a "fan" is someone who stays home and watches the game on TV rather than going out and buying tickets?

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why UH will never be a perennial top 20 football program.
fans are not necessarily equated with spending.

as timkona said in an earlier post, Hawaii sports in general lacks organization and tradition. Sometimes I feel embarrassed when Hawaii fans retort to visiting fans cheers and fight songs with fights, projectiles, and taunts (i.e. Michigan, Arizona, USC games).

Hawaii students have organized the Manoa Maniacs for students and alumni to have some sort of organization at sports games, but it doesn't seem to have caught on. how many of you have joined? how many of you know the lyrics to hawaii's fight songs and alma mater?

The Norm Chow / Dick Tomey / Cal Lee part sounds suspicious. Those are names Hawaii fans WANT to hear. The Gilbride part actually sounds like what I imagine Jones would say, and of course I couldn't fault recommending these three guys, but why Cal and not Ron? And Jones knows you don't rehire a coach you fired. That's pretty much never done in college football.
Same thing crossed my mind.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 09:10 PM

The backgrounds of all five guys that Jones recommended are at this link (http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/3114/148/).

Random

January 5th, 2008, 09:14 PM

But since the school did have a little BCS pay day due to JJ's work, who knows, the school could've started on fulfilling some of the promises that they made to him.
Too little, too late.

While academics come first, they still need to throw the athletic department some bone. Otherwise, as you stated, UH deserves a Bill Callahan or a Fred Von Appen. Even worse, a Marc Fossorier (the engineering professor convicted of electronic enticement).

:rolleyes:

scrivener

January 5th, 2008, 09:16 PM

The backgrounds of all five guys that Jones recommended are at this link (http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/3114/148/).
Make that "supposedly" recommends.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 09:17 PM

Too little, too late.

While academics come first, they still need to throw the athletic department some bone. Otherwise, as you stated, UH deserves a Bill Callahan or a Fred Von Appen. Even worse, a Marc Fossorier (the engineering professor convicted of electronic enticement).

:rolleyes:
They had The SSC built. Students had what...Frear Hall rebuilt, 15+ years later than promised? Sure, good athletic facilities would attract athletes. But they don't sleep in gyms. I'm sure they want dorms with no bad plumbing. And about the EE professor, a college could hire someone like that regardless of how much money the school has.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 09:22 PM

Word. Sometimes schools (not just athletic departments) need to look at what direction they want to go. IMO, why try to turn Hawaii into "the Berkley of the Pacific" like a former UH president aimed for, or UH athletics into a Pac-10 caliber team? Let Hawaii be Hawaii.
A downgrade to division 1-AA?

Herman Failure proved that with the 2007 schedule.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 09:26 PM

A downgrade to division 1-AA?

Herman Failure proved that with the 2007 schedule.
No. Just win, and let the fans and money come. Don't try to build athletic programs into something like those on the top tier of the NCAA, like Notre Dame, USC, or [insert SEC school here].

Initially, I thought that Frazier's shortcomings in completing the football schedule on time would do bad for Hawaii, but the football team did its job and went 12-0. They had a shot in a BCS game. They just didn't win. Can't complain with how the season turned out, really.

Frankie's Market

January 5th, 2008, 09:29 PM

The Norm Chow / Dick Tomey / Cal Lee part sounds suspicious. Those are names Hawaii fans WANT to hear. The Gilbride part actually sounds like what I imagine Jones would say, and of course I couldn't fault recommending these three guys, but why Cal and not Ron?

Well, fulltime coaching (high school, college, pro indoor) has been a part of Cal's life for the past 25 years. Ron Lee was the head coach of Kaiser's Prep Bowl team of 1979, but for many years after that, he was only a part-time assistant. (His fulltime job, working for Outrigger Hotel.) I would say brother Cal has much more extensive experience in running a football team.

And Jones knows you don't rehire a coach you fired. That's pretty much never done in college football.

Why is that an issue here? AFAIK, none of the coaches mentioned (Tomey, Chow, Lee) have ever been fired from UH. Tomey wasn't fired from UH 20 years ago. He resigned to take over the head coaching job at Arizona.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 09:30 PM

Why is that an issue here? AFAIK, none of the coaches mentioned (Tomey, Chow, Lee) have ever been fired from UH. Tomey wasn't fired from UH 20 years ago. He resigned to take over the head coaching job at Arizona.
He meant Duane Akina, who will face dismissal from University of Texas. Mike_Lowery even suggested the fired Nebraska coach Bill Callahan.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 09:38 PM

Duane Akina has neither been fired yet, nor has he resigned.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 09:40 PM

Here's a story from KGMB (http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/3110/148/) that includes:

Make that "supposedly" recommends.
Hmmm. KGMB has a copy of the letter, and the link I gave (above) was to the story where they quote parts of the letter and they say that Jones recommended those five. Not sure what could be "supposedly" about that. I guess until we see a PDF of the signed letter, maybe. But since the letter went to so many people and they're all reporting the same thing, it seems pretty safe to assume the five recommendations are legit.
But.
It sure would be kinda funny (in a bizarre and evil way) if someone faked a letter of resignation from Jones! :eek:

Frankie's Market

January 5th, 2008, 09:41 PM

fans are not necessarily equated with spending.

I hate to be blunt, but that kind of thinking and rationalization is why we will never be in a BCS conference. Hawaii fans are good at coming up with excuses NOT to attend the games when the team is struggling.

Now, for saying that, I know I'm gonna get blasted by some folks who call themselves "UH fans." And you what the irony is gonna be? Some of them will be "fans" who watched most (if not all) of the UH games on TV. And they'll be taking shots at me, a season ticket holder of UH football and baseball games for the past 15 years. :rolleyes:

scrivener

January 5th, 2008, 09:41 PM

It sure would be kinda funny (in a bizarre and evil way) if someone faked a letter of resignation from Jones! :eek:
That's what I'm proposing.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 09:45 PM

It sure would be kinda funny (in a bizarre and evil way) if someone faked a letter of resignation from Jones! :eek:
That's one elaborate hoax. Anyone besides HonAd can get a direct quote from JJ's friend, Al Souza?

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 09:47 PM

He meant Duane Akina, who will face dismissal from University of Texas. Mike_Lowery even suggested the fired Nebraska coach Bill Callahan.
Yeah I did. Callahan had winning seasons in the Big 12. I'd take that over any of the names that Jones supposedly suggested, hold for Gilbride.

scrivener

January 5th, 2008, 09:48 PM

Yeah I did. Callahan had winning seasons in the Big 12. I'd take that over any of the names that Jones supposedly suggested, hold for Gilbride.
Callahan over Chow? I don't think so. You know Norm is coming home someday, whether after his time as a coach is up, or to close out his career. He might as well come home now.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 09:49 PM

That's what I'm proposing. That's what I figured. The thought had crossed my mind earlier, albeit only briefly. Quotes about it from Jones' friend Al Souza and from that guy from Na Koa make me think the letter is likely to be legit.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 09:51 PM

I hate to be blunt, but that kind of thinking and rationalization is why we will never be in a BCS conference. Hawaii fans are good at coming up with excuses NOT to attend the games when the team is struggling.

Now, for saying that, I know I'm gonna get blasted by some folks who call themselves "UH fans." And you what the irony is gonna be? Some of them will be "fans" who watched most (if not all) of the UH games on TV. And they'll be taking shots at me, a season ticket holder of UH football and baseball games for the past 15 years. :rolleyes:
Again, it's because the school has no tradition. It's. Not. Money.

The school's spirit blows, and that's coming from an alumni that went to every home women's volleyball, men's basketball, and football games for 7 years. The only regular attendees are senior citizens, who seems to make up about 80% of people in the arenas, but those people have headphones on all the time.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 09:53 PM

Callahan over Chow? I don't think so. You know Norm is coming home someday, whether after his time as a coach is up, or to close out his career. He might as well come home now.
I foresee him retiring to spend time with family before he'd coach UH.

But we shall see if Tennessee loses against Daygo.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 09:53 PM

That's one elaborate hoax. Tim Chapman did it, to divert attention away from his own story. :p

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 09:56 PM

The only regular attendees are senior citizens, who seems to make up about 80% of people in the arenas, but those people have headphones on all the time. Those weren't headphones, they were hearing aids.

Okay, I must be getting tired if I'm getting silly. Sorry. :o

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 09:58 PM

Those weren't headphones, they were hearing aids.

Okay, I must be getting tired if I'm getting silly. Sorry. :o

hahaha...those are some strong hearing aids, 'cause they picked up bobby curran from wherever he's broadcasting from.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 10:00 PM

Something wrong about listening to 1420 AM while watching the game there?

scrivener

January 5th, 2008, 10:00 PM

hahaha...those are some strong hearing aids, 'cause they picked up bobby curran from wherever he's broadcasting from.
He's broadcasting from the floor right in front of them.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 10:05 PM

Something wrong about listening to 1420 AM while watching the game there?
there are passive fans and active fans. most of hawaii's fans are passive. all too often I see people calling themselves a "fan" just because they attend games and wear a school t-shirt.

hawaii had bonfires and pep rallies the night before big games in the past, but from what I saw, they were attended by dorming (especially from the mainland) students and students living near campus. hardly any alumni or so-called "fans". I understand if old age makes it hard for fans to attend and or participate, but damn.

LikaNui

January 5th, 2008, 10:10 PM

AHA! Liz Chun, on the KGMB 10pm News just now, said that she talked to June tonight and he confirmed that he wrote the letter, that he was surprised it had gone public, and that he hadn't sent it to Frazier... yet.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 10:10 PM

hawaii had bonfires and pep rallies the night before big games in the past,
They still have that on campus? I thought you need a student ID these days.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 10:12 PM

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 10:13 PM

They still have that on campus? I thought you need a student ID these days.
the last one I went to (2005) was open to everyone. joint was quiet.

Frankie's Market

January 5th, 2008, 10:18 PM

there are passive fans and active fans. most of hawaii's fans are passive. all too often I see people calling themselves a "fan" just because they attend games and wear a school t-shirt.

Better passive fans who loyally "attends" games and supports the athletic dept. through their purchase of tickets and merchandise than loud-mouthed fair-weather fans who only comes to the games when the team is winning. JMNSHO.

Pua'i Mana'o

January 5th, 2008, 10:26 PM

getting personal for a minute:

I am a pop warner football mom; the Boy has played tackle fb for three years. Our club has 100ish athletes and about a solid half of them are free/reduced lunch kids. Even so, we managed to raise the funds and get to HNL every year for the last three years to watch a game at the Aloha Stadium. It meant *everything* to those boys (and their daddies, mammas, and guardians). When you are talking these many people scraping it and planning for it, and bracing for the logistical nightmare that is Puppy Warner management, all for the sake of seeing the glory of college football in action and the stoking of those dreams that this young man could one day get there, it is a feeling unlike any other.

There are several in our club committed to doing the PPV thing and following our Warriors, if only to invite over the kids and their teammates and soak it all in.

And when that book came out this past year, how many of these boys could relate to the stories of those PagoPago boys brushing their teeth with soap and dreaming of getting off their rock and playing fb.

Maybe we don't put out press releases when neighbor island families do what they have to in order to get to a UH football game, but our experiences are nevertheless real.

Coach Jones, you are going to miss us. Yes, the System™ sucks in a myriad of ways. But will you find the same diamonds in the rough, the same athletes who trust in you so intently like your Poly-dominated team in Hawaii does? Mahalo nui for these last nine years.

If I had my way, he would go to the BOR and ask for the AD job.

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 10:29 PM

Better passive fans who loyally "attends" games and supports the athletic dept. through their purchase of tickets and merchandise than loud-mouthed fair-weather fans who only comes to the games when the team is winning. JMNSHO.

I'm sayin tho...the loud active fans are few and far between. We need to breed them.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 10:30 PM

Maybe we should post a poll and see who do you blame more for JJ's apparent resignation (it's not official at the time of this posting).

Mike_Lowery

January 5th, 2008, 10:31 PM

Pomai

January 5th, 2008, 10:33 PM

Does anyone beside myself feel that if June Jones leaves, you feel abandoned? We were only going up, up ,up, and now we're heading back down. Down. Down. ??

Of course, "nobody is indispensable". ;)

Pua'i Mana'o

January 5th, 2008, 10:34 PM

Yes he will. Texas is a hotbed for football talent.

no doubt. But he is headed to a fixer-upper in a trendy location. Lotsa schools in TX to hoe that hotbed.

Random

January 5th, 2008, 10:35 PM

Does anyone beside myself feel that if June Jones leaves, you feel abandoned? We were only going up, up ,up, and now we're heading back down. Down. Down. ??

Of course, "nobody is indispensable". ;)
Yeah, but it's kinda like "I blame my mom for dad leaving us" rationale for sense of abandonment.

Frankie's Market

January 5th, 2008, 11:23 PM

no doubt. But he is headed to a fixer-upper in a trendy location. Lotsa schools in TX to hoe that hotbed.

I've no doubt that if anyone can resurrect SMU to its glorydays, June Jones is just as good a candidate as anyone else. But what JJ did at UH was much more than merely turning around a football team that was down on its luck.

In this state, he was truly elevated to a level of adoration that few football coaches experience. And he was given carte blanche to dramatically shape the team in his image. Let's not forget the changeover in nickname, logo, and team colors. Not to mention even changing the music that was heard in the stadium when the team took the field. We Hawaii fans went along with all those changes because we believed in what JJ was doing. I hope the man realizes that this kind of power to change longtime traditions is not an option at every place. I don't care if he goes to Michigan and leads them to a national title in his first season. UM alumni would absolutely NOT let him change the team colors or the helmet design. Ever. And ask any Michigan fan if I'm wrong on that point.

So good luck, JJ. Thanks for the wonderful ride that you have given us for the last 9 seasons. But remember that for whatever reasons you are leaving us, there are some things Hawaii has to offer that you'll never find anywhere else.

Aloha.

TuNnL

January 6th, 2008, 12:20 AM

They still have that on campus? I thought you need a student ID these days.I remember they did this once during the Jones era. It was back in 1999 (http://starbulletin.com/1999/09/04/news/story1.html). Ironically, if I remember correctly, it was on the property of UH Lab School. :eek: Sadly, those days are gone. I blame Frazier. But like some here, I blame the BOR more, for making promises to Jones that they could not deliver on. Surely if the state has hundreds of million$ to throw at a new West-O‘ahu campus, it could have come up with the small amount of money that would have addressed most of Jones’ 19 recommendations for improvement.

I think most of the educated public realizes Hawai‘i cannot sustain a brand new baccalaureate degree campus in the middle of Kapolei. But surely, it could have done things like fix or replace UH Mānoa’s aging infrastructure on upper campus. And surely it could have finished facilities on lower campus that would not just benefit football, but other sports as well. It’s all about priorities. It’s not just athletics that are neglected at UH. UH Mānoa isn’t a priority at UH. Sad. :(

scrivener

January 6th, 2008, 12:34 AM

I think most of the educated public realizes Hawai‘i cannot sustain a brand new baccalaureate degree campus in the middle of Kapolei.
Not only can it, but I believe it must.

It’s not just athletics that are neglected at UH. UH Mānoa isn’t a priority at UH. Sad. :(
Oh, don't even. I graduated from UH-Hilo and while I didn't very often feel it, there was a constant sense of step-child syndrome there.

TuNnL

January 6th, 2008, 12:51 AM

I think most of the educated public realizes Hawai‘i cannot sustain a brand new baccalaureate degree campus in the middle of Kapolei.Not only can it, but I believe it must.Poppycock. Hawai‘i’s economy is peaking right now. But the slowing growth rate and slumping real estate market are key indicators. If we don’t have the money now, what makes you think we’ll have it then?
It’s not just athletics that are neglected at UH. UH Mānoa isn’t a priority at UH. Sad. :(
Oh, don't even. I graduated from UH-Hilo and while I didn't very often feel it, there was a constant sense of step-child syndrome there.Thank you for making my point. If the state can’t even bring UH-Hilo up to par, how in the heck will do that plus UH Mānoa, plus a brand new 4-year campus? :rolleyes:

timkona

January 6th, 2008, 07:57 AM

ANY successful football program brings with it money, attention, and nothing but the good stuff. This is true at the high school or college level. Take a look around the nation and you will find that most, if not all of the great football HS's and Colleges have very impressive academic records. Football is a cash cow on a major scale more than any other source. Period. So for all you liberal academicians who believe that a "good" football program is optional, you are probably a mediocre teacher at best. Mediocrity breeds mediocrity, and soon it becomes a mantra.

The facilities at UH need a hot cash injection.
Frazier is a full blown zero.
Polynesian Paralysis is NOT a virtue. Kamehameha (were he in charge) would hate that phrase.
Jones can do whatever he wants. He is a good coach. Wish him the best no matter what he does.
Hawaii can be a #1 national powerhouse for several reasons: Hawaii is a nice place to live, Greater Polynesia offers up lots of "material" to work with, Visiting teams players love to come here to play (its Hawaii, remember) even though their coaches and admin's loathe the cost and time commitment, the black community know's that racism in Hawaii is not directed at them, and that the acceptance level here is very high for those players. (somebody had to say it)

I am available for the position of Head Football Coach at University of Hawaii. I will send my resume, forthwith, to Mr. Frazier.

1stwahine

January 6th, 2008, 08:07 AM

The facilities at UH need a hot cash injection.
Frazier is a full blown zero.

I am available for the position of Head Football Coach at University of Hawaii. I will send my resume, forthwith, to Mr. Frazier.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Too funny Tim.:p

Auntie Lynn

Pomai

January 6th, 2008, 08:17 AM

I still don't buy this "19 reasons". Most of us can easily come up with 19 reasons or more to quit our jobs, while most of us get paid a small fraction of his current 800K salary.

Whah, whah, whah.

Let's have fun (although it's not fun) with this.

Top 19 reasons to quit coaching the UH Football program:

19) We lost the Sugar Bowl
18) If Colt, Devon and Ryan is leaving, I'm too
17) I'm tired of SPAM Musubi, time for some Texas steaks!
16) I'm tired of this "system"
15) Our bathrooms don't even have soap!
14) I'm reaching retirement age, and 800K+bonuses and benefits (like Aloha spirit and living in Hawaii) isn't enough of a nest egg for me. I deserve more. Way more.
13)
12)
11)
10)
9)
8)
7)
6)
5)
4)
3)
2)
1) Herman Frazier

Random

January 6th, 2008, 08:23 AM

13) My office carpet smells worse than the Ewa side of Ward Theatres.

zztype

January 6th, 2008, 08:53 AM

12) They make the freeway pillars too big in Hawaii.

nachodaddy

January 6th, 2008, 09:08 AM

I really did not want to interject or add anything to this part of the saga. I am a third party, I can't feel your pain that you all are feeling. I am merely a football fan and as a fan, this sucks. What I can say is that we are in the post mortem phase. This thing is done, period. Not on life support, done.

Now the posturing, damage control, and spin begin. We are basing a lot of our positions on a 'letter' whose contents are being revealed to us by the media. In a controlled manner. Which is what media does. I, for one, ain't gonna base $hit, until that letter is revealed in it's entirety. Many posts prior, I stated that JJ would be crazy to take the SMU job, that Conference USA is not a step up from the WAC, that JJ should wait for the next offer. There is a lot of information that WE don't have access to. Steinberg is no dummy. We have to let this play out a bit.

Mediocrity breeds mediocrity, and soon it becomes a mantra.

I know what Tim is trying to say here, in Tim's own special way. 'Let Hawaii be Hawaii' has just crashed headfirst into EVERYONE wanting to see UH's football program VALIDATE themselves on a national level. Look at all the chest thumping that occurred leading up to the Georgia game. I stress, EVERYONE.

Validity, like mediocrity, is a relative term. You can slice and dice both of them up any which way you want to. We can safely say, at this juncture, that one of the biggest issues we have right now, at JJ's wake, is what constitutes a valid UH football program. What I can also say, is if Georgia lost the game, and JJ signed up for another 10 years, is we would not be having this discussion. Everyone's idea of validity would have been satisfied.

Sorry Scriv, the UH football progam transcends education. That should be no surprise here. The guy driving the truck for a living or hawking snorkel tours has something in common with the person who just finishing up their master's program. People, it is all you got that allows EVERYONE to be on the same page. The UH football program transcends socio-economics, education level, ancestry, color of skin, what island you live on, where you were born, etc.... It isn't like you can run up the road and root for another team.

And for that, someone has to be held accountable. Did the powers to be at UH overpromise and underdeliver? Certainly, we can say that JJ is not in that category but were JJ's demands unreasonable?

Post that letter up with no media spin. I want to see where the disconnects are. This truly sucks for the people of Hawaii.

LikaNui

January 6th, 2008, 09:08 AM

12) They make the freeway pillars too big in Hawaii. Oh, that's good GREAT! And funny HILARIOUS!

tutusue

January 6th, 2008, 09:15 AM

[...]
I am available for the position of Head Football Coach at University of Hawaii. I will send my resume, forthwith, to Mr. Frazier.
Kden...if you get the job will you show up at the HT Christmas party in your Santa hat again...a Santa hat with an "H"?!
12) They make the freeway pillars too big in Hawaii.
Ooooh...OUCH!!!

I have an addition to the list but I'm keeping it to myself!

Random

January 6th, 2008, 09:16 AM

12) They make the freeway pillars too big in Hawaii.
OHHHH! SNAP! :p

zztype

January 6th, 2008, 10:02 AM

Sorry if I am out of line, but thought the Top 19 list was so funny, I started a separate thread for it.

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=14324

Blaine

Frankie's Market

January 6th, 2008, 05:19 PM

12) They make the freeway pillars too big in Hawaii.

Which brings to mind something else to add to my previous post. :)

Coach Jones, one other thing about Hawaii you will miss is the sacred cow treatment you got from the local media. Here, your,.... (hmmm, how shall I put it?) your extracurricular activities have been largely unreported by the media outlets, both print and broadcast. Which is cool with me. I mean, what you do in your personal life is your own private business, AFAIAC.

But you may be in for a rude awakening should you continue engaging in these kinds of activities on the mainland. In other media markets, even the slightest personal indiscretions are fair game.

So,.... while you are busy turning around the fortunes of your next downtrodden football program, better learn to keep your nose clean, aikane. Or you may be in for bigtime embarrassment. Big Bruddah will be watching you.

Mike_Lowery

January 6th, 2008, 05:38 PM

Which brings to mind something else to add to my previous post. :)

Coach Jones, one other thing about Hawaii you will miss is the sacred cow treatment you got from the local media. Here, your,.... (hmmm, how shall I put it?) your extracurricular activities have been largely unreported by the media outlets, both print and broadcast. Which is cool with me. I mean, what you do in your personal life is your own private business, AFAIAC.

But you may be in for a rude awakening should you continue engaging in these kinds of activities on the mainland. In other media markets, even the slightest personal indiscretions are fair game.

So,.... while you are busy turning around the fortunes of your next downtrodden football program, better learn to keep your nose clean, aikane. Or you may be in for bigtime embarrassment. Big Bruddah will be watching you.
haha...damn, you sound like a Na Koa booster who once told me some juicy stories.

Frankie's Market

January 6th, 2008, 06:04 PM

haha...damn, you sound like a Na Koa booster who once told me some juicy stories.

Let's just say that coaches and coeds can be a recipe for tabloid fodder.

I can say no more. ;)

Pua'i Mana'o

January 6th, 2008, 06:19 PM

ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3184370) makes it look interestinger and interestinger...

scrivener

January 6th, 2008, 07:20 PM

619 articles at Google News (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22june+jones%22&btnG=Search+News). Most of those hits are the same article, but still.

cezanne

January 6th, 2008, 08:57 PM

It ain't over 'til it's over.

LINK to SB Dave Reardon's blog (http://starbulletin.com/blogs/uhsportsextra/headed-to-overtime/)

LikaNui

January 6th, 2008, 09:36 PM

And from this recent story (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Jan/06/br/br0129456387.html) on the Advertiser website:
Agent Leigh Steinberg said June Jones, moved by e-mails and phone calls from Hawaii supporters, is having a change of heart and is reconsidering a decision to become Southern Methodist University's next football coach.
Steinberg said Jones arrived in Dallas today with the intent of joining SMU, but those plans have been put on hold.
Steinberg also said the UH president David McClain has assumed a lead role in negotiations. McClain, according to Steinberg, has addressed many of Jones' concerns about improving the UH athletic facilities.
Steinberg said he expects Jones to make a decision by early tomorrow.
(...)

Something tells me June is going to have a sleepless night.

Random

January 6th, 2008, 10:16 PM

Something tells me June is going to have a sleepless night.
He's not the only one.

BTW, has anyone from Hawai'i flew to Dallas to meet with JJ in person? Negotiating over the phone seems impersonal.

Frankie's Market

January 6th, 2008, 10:36 PM

BTW, has anyone from Hawai'i flew to Dallas to meet with JJ in person? Negotiating over the phone seems impersonal.

It may be impersonal. But time is of the essence here. If you're planning to convey something to JJ to change his mind about leaving here, you gotta do it before he signs another contract with someone else.

TuNnL

January 7th, 2008, 03:24 AM

Here, your,.... (hmmm, how shall I put it?) your extracurricular activities have been largely unreported by the media outlets, both print and broadcast.
haha...damn, you sound like a Na Koa booster who once told me some juicy stories.
Let's just say that coaches and coeds can be a recipe for tabloid fodder. I can say no more. ;)Oh, for crying out loud, guys. You make like this stuff is some big secret. These “rumors” (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=160906&postcount=15) have been posted on HT for more than four months now. :rolleyes:

Mike_Lowery

January 7th, 2008, 09:10 AM

Oh, for crying out loud, guys. You make like this stuff is some big secret. These “rumors” (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=160906&postcount=15) have been posted on HT for more than four months now. :rolleyes:
That's not all of it. I will say no more about this.

Who are the prized recruits from whom Hawaii has received verbals?

glossyp

January 7th, 2008, 09:20 AM

Mike_Lowery

January 7th, 2008, 09:24 AM

It looks to be official, or will be very shortly. Jones is going to SMU. SB bulletin (http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=6601). I wish him well.

On another note, did anyone else get the sense that UH didn't really want him around anymore? They get the bowl money, the complainer goes away and they can all act like it was his fault - "He just didn't love us enough..." Boo freakin hoo.

No, not really UH per se. I have a hunch it's between JJ and other executives (not coaches, although a few are probably glad to be free of him) within the AD that influenced him to leave.

I blame the governor. :)

shaveice

January 7th, 2008, 10:05 AM

Kalihiboy

January 7th, 2008, 10:17 AM

I say no on Bill Callahan his own players in Oakland couldnt stand him and wanted him out and he was nearly thrown out in Nebraska too recently.

As for the next head coach, what do we want a young coach, an older experienced coach, someone local (i.e. Cal Lee or Norm Chow), etc.

June Jones gave a list of 5 possible replacements, I think Dick Tomey, Kevin Gilbride (who as an assistant coach I recall was punched in the face by Buddy Ryan years ago) , Norm chow, Cal Lee, cant recall the other.

But now that JJ is leaving, could Frazier be leaving as well then we have nobody to hire the next football coach either.

It is sad just a week ago everything seemed to be okay in Manoa and now everything is turned upside down so quickly.

Aj

cabanalane

January 7th, 2008, 10:48 AM

Bob Wagner got fired a few years after the Holiday Bowl. Anything less than 12-0 and a BCS bid is not going to be acceptable. Maybe it's better to leave now?

Pretender

January 7th, 2008, 01:00 PM

This year at UH will be remembered for a great many things, some that are extraordinary. The bad things unfortunately were very avoidable.

In David McClain's statement on JJ leaving he says in part here (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Jan/07/br/br5601492783.html),

"Finally, I also want to apologize to our fans and all of Hawaii for matters getting to this stage in the first place. Exceptional performance deserves exceptional recognition, and your University was slow to step up.

That won't happen again. My focus as your president is to keep the drama on the athletic field and in the stadium, where it belongs, and not at the ticket window, or in contract negotiations."

I take this as a dig at the Athletic Administration. If this is true, Herman better be polishing up the resume. :D

Pua'i Mana'o

January 7th, 2008, 03:07 PM

this (http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/3185600) cracked me up!

I wonder how the concept of ohana is going to fly at SMU. He's going to need that in order to pull another "UH turnaround". I can hear their ha'a now "shabuya ROLL CALL! My name is Bradley, my dad is rich, and when I stick ya, you're gonna call me b•tch"

Kittrick

January 7th, 2008, 03:37 PM

anyone seen the pic they already have up at the smu.edu website? I was like "Dang they wasted no time already with the pic of June Jones next to a smu helmet!"

He looks really happy guys, so we need to find another coach. The only ones left are defective, the ranks of the fired, or coaching high school somewhere.

I totally agree with the Hawaii problem with getting behind it's teams. You think UH had it bad? Man, I went to HPU and for a few years we had basketball teams that should have been Div I (they even had 3 7-footers on one team) and would blow away teams by like 40-50 points a game, and had volleyball teams that won a few national titles in a row, but like 5 people would show up to pep rallys, and about as many to games. Even when they offered free pizza or transportation to away games like against BYUH, turnout was still low.

Frankie's Market

January 7th, 2008, 05:31 PM

That's not all of it. I will say no more about this.

"Not all of it" is right, Mike! It's merely the tip of the iceberg.

Not that it makes any difference what half-baked rumors has been posted on internet message boards, blogs, or in some tell-all book. My point remains the same. Stories about June Jones' personal life and habits have been largely ignored and unreported on by the mainstream local media. By that, I mean the obvious suspects. (Advertiser. Star-Bulletin, KHON, KGMB, etc.) The sources for those rumors that you're pointing out don't carry anywhere near the same weight and exposure as the mainstream media outlets. Basically, June Jones is getting the same kind of kidglove treatment from the local media that John Wayne received for so many years while he was alive, with virtually all of his scandals and mis-steps being whitewashed by the press in order to perpetuate some clean, All-American image.

HT postings? You're talkin' apples and oranges, tunnl.

LikaNui

January 7th, 2008, 05:54 PM

Stories about June Jones' personal life and habits have been largely ignored and unreported on by the mainstream local media. By that, I mean the obvious suspects. (Advertiser. Star-Bulletin, KHON, KGMB, etc.) I don't know what your personal agenda is, but the "mainstream local media" is wise enough to know that without PROOF, reporting mere rumors is considered slander (verbal) and libel (written).
Attorneys and courts don't look on that very kindly.
All we seem to have here is idle gossip. [/yawn]

Frankie's Market

January 7th, 2008, 06:28 PM

I don't know what your personal agenda is, but the "mainstream local media" is wise enough to know that without PROOF, reporting mere rumors is considered slander (verbal) and libel (written).
Attorneys and courts don't look on that very kindly.

Of course, "libel" isn't libel if it is the truth. Attorneys and courts won't consider any story to be defamatory if it is the verifiable truth, no matter how embarrassing the story may be.

(And I'm not talking about that HT posting that tunnl cited. There are other stories about JJ that could be reported and verified by the press,..... if they so chose. But they don't.)

"What's my personal agenda?" I'm here to post my opinions and give my two cents. What's yours? ;)

LikaNui

January 7th, 2008, 06:58 PM

If you have PROOF of something, why don't you just come out and say it? (Including the proof, of course.)

Random

January 7th, 2008, 07:02 PM

I take this as a dig at the Athletic Administration. If this is true, Herman better be polishing up the resume. :D
I hope McClain doesn't give Herman a chance to resign.

I want in his resume to show that he was fired from UH.

Random

January 7th, 2008, 07:05 PM

On another note, did anyone else get the sense that UH didn't really want him around anymore? They get the bowl money, the complainer goes away and they can all act like it was his fault - "He just didn't love us enough..." Boo freakin hoo.
I'm wondering which few coaches that Mike_Lowery indicated are glad to be free of him.

Frankie's Market

January 7th, 2008, 07:28 PM

If you have PROOF of something, why don't you just come out and say it? (Including the proof, of course.)

You want me to offer "proof of something?"

OKAY! I think we have to press "stop" here and "rewind" this thread a little bit, for those who are lost and have (unintentionally or otherwise) misconstrued my postings.

I started off by writing what amounted to a sort of "open letter" to June Jones, wishing him well on his future, but also, reminding him about all the special and unique things that he enjoyed for the last nine seasons at UH. In my initial post, it included things like allowing him to change the team nickname and logos. My next post was simply to add another item, which was the "sacred cow" treatment that he received from the mainstream local media when it came to personal matters. THAT'S ALL FOLKS!

I did not make my posting with the purpose of spreading gossip. And indeed, I did not write about any scandalous story about June Jones. I could write stuff that I have witnessed first-hand, as well as even repeating stories I have heard from other people that are even more eyebrow-raising. But I'm not gonna do it. Why? I repeat: It was never my intention to spread gossip about JJ. It was simply supposed to be a reminder about one of the benefits that he enjoyed while living and working here in Hawaii.

Keep in mind that the only bit of gossip that has appeared in this thread came not from me, but from someone else. (And a very stale one, at that.)

So Lika nui, if you're fishing for some "juicy gossip" about June Jones, sorry to disappoint you, bud, but you're not going to get it from me. If you're really hard up about hearing stuff, go make some friends with the folks who hang out at "the quarry."

Random

January 7th, 2008, 07:33 PM

Guys, I may not be the mod here, but can we just move on along?

JJ have moved on. Now we need a sacrificial pig to put in the imu.

craigwatanabe

January 7th, 2008, 07:42 PM

Okay so now that June Jones is gonna be outta the picture, can we go back to GO BOWS!!!! And the green and white unifoms, and the playing of songs like Hawaii 5-O and other great songs the UH Marching Band played?

I gotta admit this much, the Sugar Bowl entertainment meant nothing to me wtih the music they played. Where's the aloha?

Random

January 7th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Okay so now that June Jones is gonna be outta the picture, can we go back to GO BOWS!!!!

Only if we put you in the pink mahu mascot costume. Remember that one? :p

LikaNui

January 7th, 2008, 08:13 PM

OKAY! I think we have to press "stop" here and "rewind" this thread a little bit, for those who are lost and have (unintentionally or otherwise) misconstrued my postings. (...) I did not write about any scandalous story about June Jones. (...) Keep in mind that the only bit of gossip that has appeared in this thread came not from me, but from someone else. (And a very stale one, at that.) Thanks for clarifying. I definitely fall into the "unintentional" category.

So Lika nui, if you're fishing for some "juicy gossip"... I guess you misunderstood me, as well. I flat out DETEST gossip.

The End.

Kittrick

January 7th, 2008, 11:35 PM

I'm actually surprised considering the clause in Jones' contract that they didn't play hardball and force Jones to honor the full contract until June, not allowing him to sign with SMU until afterwards. Even if he resigned, they could refuse to honor it, giving admin more time to

1) Fire Herman Frazier in front of Jones to show respect
2) fix the facilities and those things on his grievance list
3) pay the man more

They didn't have to cut him loose, or even allow him to talk to other teams until the contract was up. I bet Frazier let him do that too.

I swear, it's like Frazier was like a mole from another school that doesn't like Hawaii and did everything he could to ruin the program and get paid for it.

Of course, if the AD had done his job, we'd never be at this reality.

TuNnL

January 8th, 2008, 02:32 AM

It's merely the tip of the iceberg... My point remains the same. Stories about June Jones' personal life and habits have been largely ignored and unreported on by the mainstream local media. By that, I mean the obvious suspects. (Advertiser. Star-Bulletin, KHON, KGMB, etc.)I have to agree with LikaNui and call you on your bullsh*t, Frankie’s Market. If you know of newsworthy facts regarding June Jones’ personal life and habits, then just spill it. Otherwise, you are just wasting everyone's time, pulling our chain, etc. etc.

The sources for those rumors that you're pointing out don't carry anywhere near the same weight and exposure as the mainstream media outlets.I agree completely. I merely pointed them out because they are the only sources that have gone public so far. I might add that source Dr. Joel Fischer who circulated the “rumor,” is the same person who correctly predicted that the WASC committee would choose to place UH on probationary status for accreditation, and that former UH president Evan Dobelle would be fired.

Basically, June Jones is getting the same kind of kidglove treatment from the local media that John Wayne received for so many years while he was alive, with virtually all of his scandals and mis-steps being whitewashed by the press in order to perpetuate some clean, All-American image.Can you offer an example? Any proof? Even evidence? Really, I think you owe me an apology. Unlike you, MixedPlateBroker, Fischer, and Ian Sample are the only ones who have provided any unreported details whatsoever of Jones’ dealings/personal life, shady source, or not. :rolleyes:

LikaNui

January 8th, 2008, 12:20 PM

Oh, for crying out loud, guys. You make like this stuff is some big secret. These “rumors” (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=160906&postcount=15) have been posted on HT for more than four months now. :rolleyes: First of all, I have to say I don't check Wikipedia very often, as I heard their content is reader-submitted and not necessarily verified. That concerns me. A lot. But. I was looking on Wikipedia for info about Fred von Appen, and there was this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Jones#Hawai.CA.BBi) to their entry on June Jones. I was surprised to see that they already have the news about him leaving for SMU. They recap his career in various jobs, and the new entry about SMU says this:
In a press conference at the Hall of Champions adjacent to Gerald J. Ford Stadium on January 7, 2008, June Jones was introduced as new head football coach of the Southern Methodist University. He is the school's 5th coach since the so-called “death penalty” in 1987. Jones will try to turn a football program around that had its last bowl game appearance in 1984 and its last winning season in 1997. Jones agreed to a 5-year contract with SMU, which will earn him $2 million annually, making him by far the best paid coach in Conference USA. The move to SMU also allows June to be geographically closer to his 5-year old son that he fathered with former University of Hawaii volleyball player Lily Kahumoku.

:eek:
Like I said, I'm concerned about taking Wikipedia entries as gospel, but given various recent posts here, it seems only fair to point this out.

Kittrick

January 8th, 2008, 02:44 PM

First of all, I have to say I don't check Wikipedia very often, as I heard their content is reader-submitted and not necessarily verified. That concerns me. A lot. But. I was looking on Wikipedia for info about Fred von Appen, and there was this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Jones#Hawai.CA.BBi) to their entry on June Jones. I was surprised to see that they already have the news about him leaving for SMU. They recap his career in various jobs, and the new entry about SMU says this:

:eek:
Like I said, I'm concerned about taking Wikipedia entries as gospel, but given various recent posts here, it seems only fair to point this out.

The part about June Jones and Lily kahumoku isn't there anymore if it was there earlier. conspiracy?

Random

January 8th, 2008, 03:06 PM

GENTLEMEN!!!

Can we not talk about that part of JJ's life?

It's derailing the thread talk here.

zztype

January 8th, 2008, 03:26 PM

Who you calling a gentleman???

:D

Frankie's Market

January 8th, 2008, 05:36 PM

I have to agree with LikaNui and call you on your bullsh*t, Frankie’s Market. If you know of newsworthy facts regarding June Jones’ personal life and habits, then just spill it. Otherwise, you are just wasting everyone's time, pulling our chain, etc. etc.

Tunnl, you believe anything you want. Other people know and understand what I meant about "the coach and coeds" (note the plural) and that's as far as I'm going. I'm not going to name any names just to answer your childish and immature taunts. And as I already explained to Lika Nui, I'm not going to contribute to any gossip on this thread beyond what you have cited.

This is Hawaii Threads, not tmz.com.

Random

January 8th, 2008, 06:03 PM

Who you calling a gentleman???

:D
Take it for how you wish to define it, strictly ... or loosely. :D

Frankie's Market

January 8th, 2008, 07:24 PM

I guess you misunderstood me, as well. I flat out DETEST gossip.

That makes two of us, then.

TuNnL

January 9th, 2008, 03:33 AM

Other people know and understand what I meant about "the coach and coeds" (note the plural) and that's as far as I'm going. I'm not going to name any names just to answer your childish and immature taunts. And as I already explained to Lika Nui, I'm not going to contribute to any gossip on this thread beyond what you have cited. Clearly, I have ruffled your feathers so much that you have resorted to namecalling. If you want to keep your dirty little secret close the vest and not reveal any details even after waving it in the face of HT readers, that’s your kuleana. For the record, what I took issue with, was your continuous hammering of the local “mainstream media” because they haven’t followed up on..well..whatever it is that you don’t want to reveal to HT. Oh, and then taking a potshot at me because I did what you lambasted the “mainstream media” for not doing. :rolleyes:

P.S. I don’t remember reading any juicy details about JJ in the Honolulu Weekly or Ka Leo O Hawai‘i. Why don’t you criticize those “non-mainstream” media sources? :eek:

Frankie's Market

January 10th, 2008, 12:37 AM

Clearly, I have ruffled your feathers so much that you have resorted to namecalling. :

Namecalling? Now you're imagining things. I didn't call you any names. I did label your taunting behavior as being "childish" and "immature."

As far as my feathers being "ruffled," once again, believe what you want.

:mad: <--- image of me having my feathers being ruffled to pacify Tunnl.

:rolleyes:

If you want to keep your dirty little secret close the vest and not reveal any details even after waving it in the face of HT readers, that’s your kuleana. For the record, what I took issue with, was your continuous hammering of the local “mainstream media” because they haven’t followed up on..well..whatever it is that you don’t want to reveal to HT. Oh, and then taking a potshot at me because I did what you lambasted the “mainstream media” for not doing.

Read my last reply to Lika Nui. I did not make my post with the purpose of gossiping about June Jones. Neither was it a criticism of any press organization. It was simply a reminder to Coach Jones about the soft treatment he got from the local media. Now if in your mind, that constituted a "continuous hammering" of the local media, then OH WELL. Think what you want.

And as far as your speaking out on behalf of "HT readers," it appears to me that your sentiments are now being sung by a chorus of one. :rolleyes:

P.S. I don’t remember reading any juicy details about JJ in the Honolulu Weekly or Ka Leo O Hawai‘i. Why don’t you criticize those “non-mainstream” media sources?

Once more, you're seeing criticism that's simply not there. As far as my failure to mention Honolulu Weekly or Ka Leo,.... I simply don't have time to list every single media organization and news source in this state. If you're going to read into my failure to mention "this" magazine or "that" website, then what can I say? Somebody's imagination is working overtime.