JUNE JONES PAY or NO? $400K

[infinitypro]

According to the news, June Jones contract requires him to pay a penalty of ~$400K if he terminated his contract before June 30, 2008. He did. So, should he pay or not?

I feel he should honor the terms of the contract.

[1stwahine]

According to the news, June Jones contract requires him to pay a penalty of ~$400K if he terminated his contract before June 30, 2008. He did. So, should he pay or not?

I feel he should honor the terms of the contract.

I already expressed my feelings on Twitter.:p

Auntie Lynn

[glossyp]

I'm sure SMU will gladly pay it.

[infinitypro]

I'm sure SMU will gladly pay it.

It doesn't matter who pays it, long as it's paid.

[salmoned]

How convenient, that money will be enough to pay the athletic director off for his contract...

[Kittrick]

If he honored the terms of his contract, that would also mean that he can't sign with another team until the contract is finished and the SMU deal is null and void because he's still the coach of Hawaii.

Why Frazier gave Jones permission to even talk to SMU way back in December, 6 months before his deal was up with UH is inexcusable because it left UH with no time to bargain (like they were even negotiating anyway). I think Frazier wanted Jones gone anyway so he could hire "his guy" whoever that was who would respect him as AD.

[salmoned]

That's ridiculous! You're saying if I pay off my mortgage early, I've broken my mortgage contract. If there's a stipulation concerning leaving early and even a penalty clause for leaving early, then leaving early is within the terms of the contract. No broken contract.

[Kittrick]

That's ridiculous! You're saying if I pay off my mortgage early, I've broken my mortgage contract. If there's a stipulation concerning leaving early and even a penalty clause for leaving early, then leaving early is within the terms of the contract. No broken contract.

But it is a broken contract. There is a clause that stipulates he can leave early, which he did, but without paying the penalty that we know of. If he didn't pay the penalty, the terms of the contract were broken because he violated the terms instead of staying until the contract was finished, at which point there wouldn't be a penalty because the contract was fulfilled. The spirit of the contract assumes he's going to be the coach at the end of the deal, or they probably wouldn't have had that clause.

June is a terrible month to end a coaches contract in my opinion because it's not very friendly to picking up a coach who was just fired after the football season.

[Kittrick]

sorry about the double post. I had problems posting and accidentally hit the back button. please disregard this post.

[oceanpacific]

I'd say NO! He's not getting paid for the last six months, Jan.-June 2008, which equals the $400K. To me it's a "wash." Plus, wasn't he "released" from his contract to entertain other offers?

Otherwise, it's like he has to return his salary from July-Dec. 2007 ($400K), which was definitely "earned." So, JJ was working for free? Not fair!

OTOH, it would a noble gesture on JJ's part as it would fund the $312K buyout of Frazier. Incidentally, HF may be trying to hold up UH for even more $$$$$ - bonuses "earned" by UH winning the WAC and getting into the BCS Sugar Bowl. All for him accidentally being in command of the Athletic Department. Frazier has no shame or class.

[infinitypro]

This (http://starbulletin.com/2008/01/05/news/story03.html) SB article says that the boosters have raised $120K to go towards Frazier's buyout.

If I'm understanding this (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080109/SPORTS0201/801090403/1032&template=UHsports) Advertiser article, it's the terms of the contract that he agreed to, not something that UH is bitterly throwing out there. He needs to honor it.

I wonder for those saying that he doesn't need to pay, are you jaded by the winning season? Would you still feel the same had the season not gone as well?

[scrivener]

Salmoned is right. To pay $400,000 actually gives UHM $800,000 to play with; the $400,000 UHM won't be paying Jones for the second half of the year plus the fee. There's something wrong with that.

Steinberg says the terms of Jones's contract are actually up; Jones was hired to coach five years of football, and he did. If the contract is technically up in the month of June, it is only because that's the end of the UHM fiscal year: Whether the job is done in September or May, his contract ends in June. This was explained in one of the earlier articles about the possible Jones departure.

That $400,000, I'm guessing, was meant as something of an insurance against Jones taking an offer somewhere else while he still had seasons left to coach. Think about it: Does it make sense to make a guy pay $400,000 for not doing the spring recruiting whose budget is only $50,000 in the first place?

Sure. If you're a letter-of-the-law kind of person, Jones technically owes the money. But the spirit of the law says that Jones's job is done. If necessary, let him forfeit the paychecks he has coming to him for the rest of the year, but he didn't leave in 2005; he's leaving after the five seasons he was hired to coach.

[Kittrick]

Salmoned is right. To pay $400,000 actually gives UHM $800,000 to play with; the $400,000 UHM won't be paying Jones for the second half of the year plus the fee. There's something wrong with that.

Steinberg says the terms of Jones's contract are actually up; Jones was hired to coach five years of football, and he did. If the contract is technically up in the month of June, it is only because that's the end of the UHM fiscal year: Whether the job is done in September or May, his contract ends in June. This was explained in one of the earlier articles about the possible Jones departure.

That $400,000, I'm guessing, was meant as something of an insurance against Jones taking an offer somewhere else while he still had seasons left to coach. Think about it: Does it make sense to make a guy pay $400,000 for not doing the spring recruiting whose budget is only $50,000 in the first place?

Sure. If you're a letter-of-the-law kind of person, Jones technically owes the money. But the spirit of the law says that Jones's job is done. If necessary, let him forfeit the paychecks he has coming to him for the rest of the year, but he didn't leave in 2005; he's leaving after the five seasons he was hired to coach.

But the spirit of the contract he signed says he owes $400,000 for leaving before the contract is over. He signed it, it ends in June, and that's that.

You could leave your apartment early if you paid up for the full term. It would just have to sit empty until after the last month. However, you couldn't leave the apartment if you signed a contract stating that you'd stay there until a certain date, or pay a penalty for leaving early, which most apartment rental contracts have. It's the same thing, except Jones instead got paid to do a job until June, which he didn't do. Thus he owes UH.

Personally, I hope he does his best Nick Saban and comes back after Frazier went down.

[Frankie's Market]

But the spirit of the contract he signed says he owes $400,000 for leaving before the contract is over. He signed it, it ends in June, and that's that.

You could leave your apartment early if you paid up for the full term. It would just have to sit empty until after the last month. However, you couldn't leave the apartment if you signed a contract stating that you'd stay there until a certain date, or pay a penalty for leaving early, which most apartment rental contracts have. It's the same thing, except Jones instead got paid to do a job until June, which he didn't do. Thus he owes UH.

Just my opinion, but I must say that this is probably one of the most narrow-minded posts that I have come across in HT in re: to June Jones' departure. Comparing June Jones' situation to that of an apartment lessee,.... there's not much to say to anyone who would find that to be a valid comparison.

Personally, I hope he does his best Nick Saban and comes back after Frazier went down.

Shows how little you know about June Jones as a person. He is not anything like Nick Saban. From 1999 until this past season, Jones has been the head coach at UH. In that very same period of time, Saban has been head coach for Michigan St., LSU, the Miami Dolphins, and now the Alabama Crimson Tide. That's four different teams in the last nine seasons, if you're counting.

Saban did not only jump from team to team, but he even abandoned one of his teams mid-season. He left Michigan St. shortly before the Spartans were scheduled to play in the 2000 Citrus Bowl, all because he wanted to get a head start on recruiting for his then-new team, LSU. Say what you want about June Jones. But quitting a team in mid-season is something that he has never done. When he was offered the UH job, he didn't suddenly quit his interim head coaching job with the Chargers. He told UH officials that he would be staying put in San Diego until the final gun sounded on the Chargers' last game of the 1998 season. And he followed through with that commitment, even though he really had nothing to gain by coaching the Chargers through that final game. That tells me everything I need to know that JJ is anything but a Nick Saban-like opportunist.

Even though I love for JJ to be back here, I know it is NOT going to happen via some unethical loophole. He's already made his commitment to SMU and he will be honoring that.

[Kittrick]

Just my opinion, but I must say that this is probably one of the most narrow-minded posts that I have come across in HT in re: to June Jones' departure. Comparing June Jones' situation to that of an apartment lessee,.... there's not much to say to anyone who would find that to be a valid comparison.



Shows how little you know about June Jones as a person. He is not anything like Nick Saban. From 1999 until this past season, Jones has been the head coach at UH. In that very same period of time, Saban has been head coach for Michigan St., LSU, the Miami Dolphins, and now the Alabama Crimson Tide. That's four different teams in the last nine seasons, if you're counting.

Saban did not only jump from team to team, but he even abandoned one of his teams mid-season. He left Michigan St. shortly before the Spartans were scheduled to play in the 2000 Citrus Bowl, all because he wanted to get a head start on recruiting for his then-new team, LSU. Say what you want about June Jones. But quitting a team in mid-season is something that he has never done. When he was offered the UH job, he didn't suddenly quit his interim head coaching job with the Chargers. He told UH officials that he would be staying put in San Diego until the final gun sounded on the Chargers' last game of the 1998 season. And he followed through with that commitment, even though he really had nothing to gain by coaching the Chargers through that final game. That tells me everything I need to know that JJ is anything but a Nick Saban-like opportunist.

Even though I love for JJ to be back here, I know it is NOT going to happen via some unethical loophole. He's already made his commitment to SMU and he will be honoring that.

I apologize because you know June Jones more on a than I do. All I was saying is that a contract is a contract and if he owes UH $400,000 he should pay it, even if he left early taking the opportunity (being an opportunist?) SMU gave him before his contract was up instead of sticking it out until it was over even though the situation was difficult. It's not a personal knock on the guy that he didn't stick it out until his contract (commitment) he signed was over, it's a fact. People are getting caught up in the emotions of a great season, and not paying attention to the business end of things, which is why JJ left in the first place with the whole Frazier and facilities problem.

[Walkoff Balk]

June Jones is avoiding the media because he couldn't adjust to Lee Cataluna's speed.

[Frankie's Market]

I apologize because you know June Jones more on a than I do. All I was saying is that a contract is a contract and if he owes UH $400,000 he should pay it, even if he left early taking the opportunity (being an opportunist?) SMU gave him before his contract was up instead of sticking it out until it was over even though the situation was difficult. It's not a personal knock on the guy that he didn't stick it out until his contract (commitment) he signed was over, it's a fact. People are getting caught up in the emotions of a great season, and not paying attention to the business end of things, which is why JJ left in the first place with the whole Frazier and facilities problem.

Legally speaking, you are correct. If UH wants to stick it to JJ, despite all of the amazing accomplishments over the last nine years, they could. And I would imagine that for those people who: 1) think JJ is being greedy and/or 2) just plain don't like him, you'll will no doubt believe that having him forfeit a substantial amount of his salary is the "right" thing to do. So be it.

Here's my viewpoint: 1) June Jones came to UH with the football program in a mess. Forget about just being 0-12 in 1998. UH was 12-47 the five years before June arrived. Obviously, he turned the team around in a big way this past decade.

2) Forget about the unprecedented success of this past season. (Undefeated regular season, outright WAC title, BCS bowl bid, Colt's Heisman finalist performance.) JJ's success has not been a flash in the pan. He's turned UH into a perennial WAC powerhouse, with 6 bowl bids in 9 seasons. (Should have been 7, had the Aloha Bowl not folded up in 2001.) And he's done this with one of the worst conditioned facilities in the nation.

3) June took a big pay cut to come to Manoa in the first place. The naysayers can ramble on all they want about how $320,000 (his original salary) is a LOT of money. (Many of whom, I imagine, flip burgers for a living.) Whether anyone wants to face up to this or not, the fact remains: June passed up more lucrative opportunities in the NFL in order to come here. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, June made a financial sacrifice by coaching here.

Looking at these three factors, my conclusion is: June produced results that were above and beyond the call of duty. His record of success dwarfs the accomplishments of all of his predecessors, as respectable as some of them were. (i.e. Dave Holmes, Dick Tomey, Bob Wagner.) To stick it to June after all this, regardless of whose side the law would be on,.... that would amount to nothing more than a "dog in the manger" attitude on the part of the university. At least, that's the way I see it.

The most successful football team of the 1960s was the Green Bay Packers, led by the late Vince Lombardi. ("Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing.") But one of the most classiest things that the Packers did was to release Lombardi from his contract a full FIVE years early so that he could become a part-owner of the Washington Redskins, a team that was desperate to hire him as their coach. Realizing that the offer of stock in an NFL team was a rare opportunity and being grateful for all that he had done for the team and the Green Bay community, the Packers board of directors graciously agreed to not stand in Lombardi's way. One would hope that UH would also display a similar kind of class when it comes to June Jones, after all that he has done for this school and state.

As OP said, it wouldn't be surprising at all should June decide to voluntarily forego part of his salary, with the idea of helping out UH. Despite what Lee Cataluna may think, June does care about the university and the football program he is leaving behind. But as I said, the UH admin. could either show grace and class in how it handles this situation,..... or it could choose to part ways with its greatest football coach in a bush-league manner.

If its the latter, I wonder if someone like Norm Chow would think it worthwhile to take a pay cut to coach at UH if he sees them treating JJ in such a petty and meanspirited way.

[Random]

If he honored the terms of his contract, that would also mean that he can't sign with another team until the contract is finished and the SMU deal is null and void because he's still the coach of Hawaii.
Yeah, but if you want him to stick around for scouting and recruiting and not for coaching that would create a shake-up in leadership. The players that signed their Letters of Intent because of JJ is going to have second thoughts about coming into the team (and UH) with a new coach they don't know.

Why Frazier gave Jones permission to even talk to SMU way back in December, 6 months before his deal was up with UH is inexcusable because it left UH with no time to bargain (like they were even negotiating anyway). I think Frazier wanted Jones gone anyway so he could hire "his guy" whoever that was who would respect him as AD.
That would be the DUMBEST reason for making such a BONEHEADED move.

And why are we paying him to leave? Why can't we fire him, Hawaiian-style (i.e., into the active volcano)? :mad:

[Kittrick]

Legally speaking, you are correct. If UH wants to stick it to JJ, despite all of the amazing accomplishments over the last nine years, they could. And I would imagine that for those people who: 1) think JJ is being greedy and/or 2) just plain don't like him, you'll will no doubt believe that having him forfeit a substantial amount of his salary is the "right" thing to do. So be it.

Here's my viewpoint: 1) June Jones came to UH with the football program in a mess. Forget about just being 0-12 in 1998. UH was 12-47 the five years before June arrived. Obviously, he turned the team around in a big way this past decade.

2) Forget about the unprecedented success of this past season. (Undefeated regular season, outright WAC title, BCS bowl bid, Colt's Heisman finalist performance.) JJ's success has not been a flash in the pan. He's turned UH into a perennial WAC powerhouse, with 6 bowl bids in 9 seasons. (Should have been 7, had the Aloha Bowl not folded up in 2001.) And he's done this with one of the worst conditioned facilities in the nation.

3) June took a big pay cut to come to Manoa in the first place. The naysayers can ramble on all they want about how $320,000 (his original salary) is a LOT of money. (Many of whom, I imagine, flip burgers for a living.) Whether anyone wants to face up to this or not, the fact remains: June passed up more lucrative opportunities in the NFL in order to come here. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, June made a financial sacrifice by coaching here.

Looking at these three factors, my conclusion is: June produced results that were above and beyond the call of duty. His record of success dwarfs the accomplishments of all of his predecessors, as respectable as some of them were. (i.e. Dave Holmes, Dick Tomey, Bob Wagner.) To stick it to June after all this, regardless of whose side the law would be on,.... that would amount to nothing more than a "dog in the manger" attitude on the part of the university. At least, that's the way I see it.

The most successful football team of the 1960s was the Green Bay Packers, led by the late Vince Lombardi. ("Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing.") But one of the most classiest things that the Packers did was to release Lombardi from his contract a full FIVE years early so that he could become a part-owner of the Washington Redskins, a team that was desperate to hire him as their coach. Realizing that the offer of stock in an NFL team was a rare opportunity and being grateful for all that he had done for the team and the Green Bay community, the Packers board of directors graciously agreed to not stand in Lombardi's way. One would hope that UH would also display a similar kind of class when it comes to June Jones, after all that he has done for this school and state.

As OP said, it wouldn't be surprising at all should June decide to voluntarily forego part of his salary, with the idea of helping out UH. Despite what Lee Cataluna may think, June does care about the university and the football program he is leaving behind. But as I said, the UH admin. could either show grace and class in how it handles this situation,..... or it could choose to part ways with its greatest football coach in a bush-league manner.

If its the latter, I wonder if someone like Norm Chow would think it worthwhile to take a pay cut to coach at UH if he sees them treating JJ in such a petty and meanspirited way.


From Random:
Yeah, but if you want him to stick around for scouting and recruiting and not for coaching that would create a shake-up in leadership. The players that signed their Letters of Intent because of JJ is going to have second thoughts about coming into the team (and UH) with a new coach they don't know.

I just think it's crazy to say "hey you did a great job. Even though you don't work here anymore don't worry about the $400,000 you owe us for leaving early." I have no doubts JJ is a nice guy, it's just that if any government worker besides him left in the same situation under contract, I bet we'd all be screaming for him to pay it back for leaving early.

With a change this big, you are probably going to lose some of those who intended to come to Hawaii anyway, but I'm convinced that the contract he signed that expires in June...he never intended to leave. I say this, because it was in an Advertiser article a few days ago that he even tried to restructure the contract in 05' for a 5 year term to get paid even less ($500,000) and have the remainder of the salary divided amongst his assistants and even bring back Mouse Davis, but Frazier rejected it.

[Leo Lakio]

Why can't we fire him, Hawaiian-style (i.e., into the active volcano)? :mad:Because UH wasn't able to get a bargain fare to Hawai`i Island on go!, and they didn't want to wait for HSF service to get there.


(Talk about cross-threading...this post links up a three-way, sort of a message e trois.)

[Random]

Because UH wasn't able to get a bargain fare to Hawai`i Island on go!, and they didn't want to wait for HSF service to get there.
So, what the use of having outrigger canoe clubs and the Moloka'i Hoe event for? :D

Look, you don't have to make room inside the canoe for Frazier. Strapped him to the bottom of the boat.

[Random]

I just think it's crazy to say "hey you did a great job. Even though you don't work here anymore don't worry about the $400,000 you owe us for leaving early." I have no doubts JJ is a nice guy, it's just that if any government worker besides him left in the same situation under contract, I bet we'd all be screaming for him to pay it back for leaving early.
Perhaps. But any legal chance we can make SMU pay JJ's penalty?

[oceanpacific]

The problem is that these contracts and their provisions are subject to judicial review and the best result may be getting the different sides to compromise. It may cost UH and/or June Jones MORE than the amount at stake to go through a court fight. All that accomplishes is to make either or both sides look bad (GREEDY, VINDICTIVE, CHICKEN-S**T, etc.) and the attorneys end up with all the money. What appears to common sense in my eyes (JJ not getting paid his $400K for Jan.-June 2008 is a "wash" against this $400K "penalty") may or may not be upheld in court. My conclusion that JJ would be returning his $400K salary for July-Dec. 2007 and would have worked this fiscal year for "free" could be deemed incorrect by the court, no matter how "logical" it seems.

The same applies to Herman Frazier's "buyout" for his dismissal "without cause." Everyone knows that there certainly was "cause:" that IDIOT was incompetent and lazy. But a court fight regarding his termination may have cost more in legal fees than the settlement, so UH settled because it would have been less expensive.

We have a LEGAL system, not a JUSTICE system, in operation. Guys like O. J.. Simpson and Robert Blake "got away with murder" because of the way it operates. The lawyers (and the Brown family) couldn't get OJ's NFL pension, but the attorneys got everything else from OJ - his house, boats, etc.

[Random]

I'm not going to look at UH for being greedy.

Besides, based on bits of JJ's press conference, he stated NOTHING is going to keep him in Hawai'i, short of retiring to Kona. That statement contradicted previous ones about whether he had a difficult time making a decision to leave Hawai'i.

I also cannot understand his statement of loyalty to Frazier which contradicted his alleged resignation letter that expressed frustration with Frazier (as well as the UH administration).

I don't have any grudge against him. But he made the decision to leave Hawai'i when his contract ends, long before SMU came calling.

[Kittrick]

I'm not going to look at UH for being greedy.

Besides, based on bits of JJ's press conference, he stated NOTHING is going to keep him in Hawai'i, short of retiring to Kona. That statement contradicted previous ones about whether he had a difficult time making a decision to leave Hawai'i.

I also cannot understand his statement of loyalty to Frazier which contradicted his alleged resignation letter that expressed frustration with Frazier (as well as the UH administration).

I don't have any grudge against him. But he made the decision to leave Hawai'i when his contract ends, long before SMU came calling.

Exactly! I was weirded out by what he said on the teevee too, because he made it sound like SMU was the perfect opportunity he was looking for all along, and nothing UH did would have kept him in Hawaii.

He could have phrased it better from a PR perspective like "I've done everything there is to do here, so I've decided to move on", but it wasn't phrased like that at all. It sounded opportunistic to me, but I could have interpreted it wrong.

I thought he sounded awfully diplomatic to the issue of Herman Frazier. Is he the next AD at SMU or something?

[Random]

I thought he sounded awfully diplomatic to the issue of Herman Frazier. Is he the next AD at SMU or something?
Now, now. You make it sound like Frazier engineered this whole thing so he too can move to SMU, even though they already have one who did the right thing: hire June Jones.

From what I hear, Mr. Frazier is getting a national post, CEO of USA Track & Field. I suddenly feel sorry for our US Summer Olympic athletes competing in that field.

[Kittrick]

Now, now. You make it sound like Frazier engineered this whole thing so he too can move to SMU, even though they already have one who did the right thing: hire June Jones.

From what I hear, Mr. Frazier is getting a national post, CEO of USA Track & Field. I suddenly feel sorry for our US Summer Olympic athletes competing in that field.

It was a bad joke when I mentioned SMU. If you look at Frazier's history at UH, it was like he wasn't working for the university's best interests, but for another university or something because he seemed to do things the opposite of what he should have done for UH...but I'm pretty sure it was just the incompetence. But you have to think to yourself: man that takes a lot of effort to screw things up the way he did with so many issues!

I bet he could screw up a sport where people just run around a track, jump over things, or throw some object too somehow.

[Frankie's Market]

Exactly! I was weirded out by what he said on the teevee too, because he made it sound like SMU was the perfect opportunity he was looking for all along, and nothing UH did would have kept him in Hawaii.

He could have phrased it better from a PR perspective like "I've done everything there is to do here, so I've decided to move on", but it wasn't phrased like that at all. It sounded opportunistic to me, but I could have interpreted it wrong.

Of course, Jones also said in his e-mail to Frazier that he likely would have re-signed had UH tendered an offered in 2005, or even before the start of this past season.

So if seeking out a more appreciative and responsive employer falls under your definition of someone who is "opportunistic," whatever.

I thought he sounded awfully diplomatic to the issue of Herman Frazier. Is he the next AD at SMU or something?

I think you have to read the way JJ "defended" HF. Here is a direct quote from yesterday's press conference.

He (Frazier) was faced with a lot of the frustrations I faced the first four years on the job until he showed up.

Here, JJ sheds light on an important truth. The problems at UH did not begin with Herman Frazier. It was already there when JJ first started in 1999, with a different university president, chancellor, athletic director, and board of regents. Numerous people have come and gone from those positions over the last 9 years. But the problems caused by a reactive (rather than proactive) bureaucracy was a constant. And I think that JJ wanted the public to know THAT was one of the major reasons why he left UH. It wasn't solely because of Herman Frazier.

I'm speculating here, of course. But I think June wanted to make that last point clear to the public, because the timing of his departure and HF's firing obscured the root cause of what eventually drove JJ to the difficult decision to go to SMU. As incompetent an AD as Frazier has proven himself to be, let no one be fooled into thinking that the present mess was entirely the work of one person (Herman). I said it in another post. How could the president and the chancellor have let things get so far before personally becoming involved in JJ's contract negotiations? Their part in this coaching crisis is inexcusable. Merely firing HF does not clear them from sharing in the responsibility.

[Kittrick]

Of course, Jones also said in his e-mail to Frazier that he likely would have re-signed had UH tendered an offered in 2005, or even before the start of this past season.

So if seeking out a more appreciative and responsive employer falls under your definition of someone who is "opportunistic," whatever.



I think you have to read the way JJ "defended" HF. Here is a direct quote from yesterday's press conference.

He (Frazier) was faced with a lot of the frustrations I faced the first four years on the job until he showed up.

Here, JJ sheds light on an important truth. The problems at UH did not begin with Herman Frazier. It was already there when JJ first started in 1999, with a different university president, chancellor, athletic director, and board of regents. Numerous people have come and gone from those positions over the last 9 years. But the problems caused by a reactive (rather than proactive) bureaucracy was a constant. And I think that JJ wanted the public to know THAT was one of the major reasons why he left UH. It wasn't solely because of Herman Frazier.

I'm speculating here, of course. But I think June wanted to make that last point clear to the public, because the timing of his departure and HF's firing obscured the root cause of what eventually drove JJ to the difficult decision to go to SMU. As incompetent an AD as Frazier has proven himself to be, let no one be fooled into thinking that the present mess was entirely the work of one person (Herman). I said it in another post. How could the president and the chancellor have let things get so far before personally becoming involved in JJ's contract negotiations? Their part in this coaching crisis is inexcusable. Merely firing HF does not clear them from sharing in the responsibility.

I'm thinking the president and the chancellor thought the AD was doing his job, but I certainly think they are at fault for not checking up at least on the progress wayyyy earlier than the last game of the year to have to step in to do the AD's job. I'm thinking if Hugh Yoshida was there, it would have been a done deal.

[Random]

So, who have the guts to call into question of the UH BOREs?

Perhaps we should get our state legislators to question the entire UH BOREs in the same way they questioned Bishop Trustees in the past.

[oceanpacific]

Frazier's role in this mess should not be minimized. He is far from a mere scapegoat being blamed for the shortcomings of his superiors.

Don't forget that Frazier is the poster boy NOT of "working hard," but of "hardly working." For this he got $200K/annum for 3 years, $250K/annum for 2-1/2 years, and a $312K "buyout" for 15 months of the remaining 30 months he was terminated from. In addition, the word is out that he may be claiming additional money for "performance bonuses earned!" For being on the job when JJ and the UH football team went undefeated, won the WAC, and earned the trip to the BCS Sugar Bowl, and for getting the program "in the black" by $67K (achieved IMHO via accounting "tricks" - collecting season ticket renewals and seat premiums for the following fiscal year ahead of time). Example, men's basketball season tickets were usually renewed in August and September (season started in November), but in the last two years, the money was collected in May, a full month or more before the start of the July 1 fiscal year. Coincidentally, the last two years produced an operating "profit."

[TuNnL]

I wonder if someone like Norm Chow would think it worthwhile to take a pay cut to coach at UH if he sees them treating JJ in such a petty and meanspirited way.At this point, it would no longer be a pay cut, since the much heralded NFL coach is now unemployed (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Jan/15/br/br7890623415.html). :eek:

[Random]

Frazier's role in this mess should not be minimized. He is far from a mere scapegoat being blamed for the shortcomings of his superiors.
Tell that to June Jones who defended him. I have to watch that half-hour KGMB9 Special, Junes Jones: A New Beginning on January 22nd @ 9:30p. I want to see if he still want to defend Frazier.

[infinitypro]

So, June Jones (conveniently) alleges that he had a verbal agreement with fired AD Herman Frazier to waive the penalty for breaking his contract prior to June 30th.

HT legal eagles, is a verbal agreement binding in Hawaii? If so, how does one prove it without it turning into a "your word against mine?" If not, I kind of expected June Jones to dig out on his bill!

[Walkoff Balk]

June Jones could go on the Andy Bumatai show with a "The Moment of Truth" questioning setup to see if there was a verbal agreement made.

[Leo Lakio]

HT legal eagles, is a verbal agreement binding in Hawaii?In the immortal words of all attorneys everywhere: "It depends." In general, verbal agreements can be considered as binding, but there are so many variables open to interpretation that it usually ends up headed for court (and, more often than not, settled outside the court).

Caveat: I am not an attorney, but the Alpha Female has her J.D. and passed the bar in Washington & Hawai`i - though she has chosen not to practice.

[infinitypro]

In the immortal words of all attorneys everywhere: "It depends." In general, verbal agreements can be considered as binding, but there are so many variables open to interpretation that it usually ends up headed for court (and, more often than not, settled outside the court).

Caveat: I am not an attorney, but the Alpha Female has her J.D. and passed the bar in Washington & Hawai`i - though she has chosen not to practice.

Hmm...so then quite possibly Jones could eventually settle out of court for an amount he is more comfortable parting with which really could be why he's making such an allegation.

[TuNnL]

Hmm...so then quite possibly Jones could eventually settle out of court for an amount he is more comfortable parting with which really could be why he's making such an allegation.That’s what the Honolulu Advertiser’s August 2 article (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080802/NEWS01/808020340/1001/LOCALNEWSFRONT) implies, however, I haven’t seen any announcement forthcoming. If Jones and UH had reached an agreement “in principle” two weeks ago, shouldn’t there have been an announcement by now? :confused: