Things/places we should save

[Ron Whitfield]

With our Hawaiian island melting pot changing too fast from 'the good old days' for most of us, what are some of the material, or more important things, in your neighborhood/on your island that you'd like to see preserved.

I've been trying to find a way to save, in some manner, the incredible kitschy treasure located on the (mauka) interior wall of the soon to be torn down, Bowl O Drome. A wall sized hand painted mural from the 50s depicting the Royal Hawaiian Court enjoying a day 'bowling', repleit with menehune, that needs to be seen to be appreciated.
I've made inquiries, but the beaurocratic hurdles are impossible.

Another favorite is the iconic neon sign fronting Club Hubba Hubba. Still salvageable, at last sighting. The City should have found a way to acquire the room long ago and made it something worthwhile (in a perfect world).

Every time I venture into town/Waikiki, I see more 'tear it down for Nike Town' improvement/progress that I wonder if there will be anything left from kid day's.

[craigwatanabe]

It's not only buildings that we must preserve but it's also communities that have endured that nurture the nature of those buildings. I look at Downtown Hilo for example. Many of the older buildings remain and cannot be torn down due to preservation measures in place at the County level. However Downtown Hilo has changed business-wise.

So as one who used to frequent Hilo in the 60's, the look and feel of downtown Hilo represents a different attitude of decades past and as I walk along the Kress Buidling...it's just not the same.

Same goes for Haleiwa and Kakaako on Oahu. I've been to Kauai and Maui and have seen similar "changes" that have altered the way of life from years past. Some call it progress, others consider it a loss of culture. I guess it depends on who's staying and who's coming over.

[Ron Whitfield]

I live in Waialua, and have been so off and on for decades. When the Haleiwa Theater was destroyed that sad Sunday morning, it took the life's breath right out of the community. 'Things' are part of a community as much as the human spirit, and keeping 'things' around for future generations is insightful.

[Kimo]

I witnessed a small pre-demolition site blessing @ Varsity Theatre this morning. The building is in decrepit condition, in large part because of settling, and scavengers (official and unofficial) have been through the premises. It has/had some interesting features and trim, but IMO, in spite of whatever memories it might conjure up - esp. for those of us who attended UH classes there - it's probably not worth saving unless a theatre group were to use it. It's not Historic (with a capital H), it's just Old (with a capital O). Asbestos removal begins soonest, full-on demo about April 1, no foolin'.

[Ron Whitfield]

I heard they had once planned to keep the marquee, but not much point to that. I can't think of a pre-war aged theater still in action on Oahu now, outside of the one in Ft Shafter.

[timkona]

Preserving old stuff for the kids is not in their best interest. Try building new, smart things that the kids can use when they become adults. Look to the future instead of lamenting the passing of the times. Times change, and those who resist only create problems for their children.

Forward thinking or rearward looking. It's a choice you know.

[Ron Whitfield]

As a kid I found the historic aspects to be some of the most interesting/stimulating/rewarding. There's plenty to learn and enjoy from the past. And, what we have for the kid's to focus on these day's leaves a lot to be desired. It also helps keep a better perspective while moving into the future.

Another place that needs to be saved and utilized properly is The Natatorium, and boy, do I know how to do it.

[craigwatanabe]

Wow the Varsity Theater building was such a landmark, now the only thing left to give directions is the torroidial building (FHB) that sat next to it. I call it that because it looks like a Terroid Transformer.

[Palolo lolo]

I have a few signs from now-gone businesses,like Aina Haina Home and Garden,
the Willows etc. I've thought someone should do a book about what businesses have bit the dust to make way for another 7-11 or Aloha gas station or Starbucks etc

[Kimo]

This may be a little off, since I haven't taken the time to look it up, but didn't some guy at HPU do a book (or 2?) on something like "The Company We Keep" (that doesn't sound right) about the history of companies . . . how they lived, when they "died," etc.

[pzarquon]

This may be a little off, since I haven't taken the time to look it up, but didn't some guy at HPU do a book (or 2?) on something like "The Company We Keep" (that doesn't sound right) about the history of companies . . . how they lived, when they "died," etc.Bob Sigall is the author, and he posts here at HawaiiThreads as Creative-1 (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/member.php?u=1797). Visit his profile for a list of his recent posts, which of course largely focus on threads and topics like the following:

Disappearing establishments (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=7134)
Big & Small Business Memories (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=6897)

[helen]

now the only thing left to give directions is the torroidial building (FHB) that sat next to it.

In case you didn't know First Hawaiian Bank doesn't have a branch in that building anymore.

[scrivener]

I heard they had once planned to keep the marquee, but not much point to that. I can't think of a pre-war aged theater still in action on Oahu now, outside of the one in Ft Shafter.
Do you mean still in action as a movie theater, or still in action at all?

[craigwatanabe]

In case you didn't know First Hawaiian Bank doesn't have a branch in that building anymore.

Auwe! I'm slowly losing touch with Oahu...oh well that's why I left right?:rolleyes:

[Ron Whitfield]

Meant as a working theater, Scrivner.

lolo, what are you doing with the bigger pieces, anything special, or did you 'just' salvage?

[Palolo lolo]

I just saved signs-not enough room for the pineapple water tower:p

[Ron Whitfield]

How'd you know I wuz going there?

But, I applaude your efforts in trying to save these items. Cool.

[Menehune Man]

Preserving old stuff for the kids is not in their best interest. Try building new, smart things that the kids can use when they become adults. Look to the future instead of lamenting the passing of the times. Times change, and those who resist only create problems for their children.

Forward thinking or rearward looking. It's a choice you know.

I agree with Timkona.
Nostalgia is cool and I miss many things from my youth too,
but forward thinking is the right thinking in my book.

Not all 'new' things are good. Not old either!
Previous generations had their time and everywhere we step has been walked on before, so I and future generations have just as much right to 'use' this place as seen fit.

[Frankie's Market]

Another place that needs to be saved and utilized properly is The Natatorium, and boy, do I know how to do it.

Wow! Do share your plan. And for it to be taken seriously, it would also have to realistically deal with safety issues, a structural foundation that is collapsing apart, and making the project financially self-sufficient in the long run. (Like yeah. A whole bunch of folks will pay admission to use the pool when the beach outside is FREE!)

If not, I stick to what I've been saying for the last 20 years. The pool should be demolished. Get rid of that unsafe and delapitated eyesore to open up more beach area for the public. Keep the Natatorium arches standing in memory of the WWI vets to whom it was built to honor.

[craigwatanabe]

I say fill the Nadatorium up with dirt and make a world class volleyball arena out of it. It's already got the bleachers and renovated bathrooms.

[Frankie's Market]

I say fill the Nadatorium up with dirt and make a world class volleyball arena out of it. It's already got the bleachers and renovated bathrooms.

Up until about several years ago, I might have gone along with that plan. But now, it's a no-go!

Filling up the pool with sand alone does not address the problem of the entire deck (holding up the entire structure, including the bleachers and bathrooms) collapsing into the sea. If you can't fix the foundation, all the other changes and improvements you perform on the rest of the Natatorium is like throwing good money after bad. You can spend an additional tens of millions in repairs. But inevitably, the age of the pool (80 years) combined with the relentless wave action of the water adds up to a Natatorium that will eventually succumb to the forces of Mother Nature.

As it is, how many millions of taxpayer dollars has our city poured into a structure that, aside from the bathrooms and parking lot, has been totally closed off and inaccessible to the public for 29 years now? This is a classic example of a money pit.

[craigwatanabe]

Up until about several years ago, I might have gone along with that plan. But now, it's a no-go!

Filling up the pool with sand alone does not address the problem of the entire deck (holding up the entire structure, including the bleachers and bathrooms) collapsing into the sea. If you can't fix the foundation, all the other changes and improvements you perform on the rest of the Natatorium is like throwing good money after bad. You can spend an additional tens of millions in repairs. But inevitably, the age of the pool (80 years) combined with the relentless wave action of the water adds up to a Natatorium that will eventually succumb to the forces of Mother Nature.

As it is, how many millions of taxpayer dollars has our city poured into a structure that, aside from the bathrooms and parking lot, has been totally closed off and inaccessible to the public for 29 years now? This is a classic example of a money pit.


Oh well that's too bad. I guess at least save the archway and bathroom facilities and take down the rest of it. I have many fond memories of swimming in there. Did my Red Cross swimming lessons there in the 60's and the stories of sea monsters and getting stuck in the lower drainage hole trying to swim into the pool from the ocean side.

[Ron Whitfield]

FM, thanx for asking!

I'd like to see the pool structure either filled in and made sound or replaced, with a bigger/better grassy area surrounded with naupaka and a few coconut trees, to frame a stage for a combination Kodak Hula Show / Hawaii Calls / Don Ho Show to be filmed and streamed world-wide and $ generated thru advertising.
If the City/State could assist without interferring, that would be of great assistance.
The Natatorium is perfectly located to promote Hawaii, employ local talent, showcase the Hawaiian steel guitar (my pet project within a project), utilize the structure and honor the Vets, and give tourists and locals a fun, safe, classy place to enjoy the music, culture, and beauty of Waikiki and the islands.

Not that there aren't seen and unforseen bumps along the road to be handled, but it can be done, if sensible heads prevail.
Which means it's doomed.

[Frankie's Market]

I'd like to see the pool structure either filled in and made sound or replaced, with a bigger/better grassy area surrounded with naupaka and a few coconut trees, to frame a stage for a combination Kodak Hula Show / Hawaii Calls / Don Ho Show to be filmed and streamed world-wide and $ generated thru advertising.

Well, I don't know know how practical converting the Natatorium into an outdoor stage/entertainment facility would be for a Don Ho show, seeing as the man has been dead for about a year now.

A Kodak Hula Show? Fine with me, if Eastman Kodak Company (or any other private company) is willing to pay for any and all costs associated with repairing, renovating, and maintaining the Natatorium. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

If the City/State could assist without interferring, that would be of great assistance..

The city interferring? You've got the city to thank for the fact that the Natatorium is still standing, as it is. It's the city, and only the city, that has spent as much as a single red cent on that place over the last 3 decades. No one from the private sector has stepped forward with any money and plans for the Natatorium, for the simple reason that "for profit" companies usually don't like to flush their money down the toilet.

No, I really don't see any sensible minded CEO wanting the responsibility of caring for this white elephant. Only the "brilliant" minds at Honolulu Hale would see fit to spend over $10 million on patching up a building that has served no benefit or purpose for the last 30 years other than being a public bathroom. What a waste!

[Ron Whitfield]

Don Ho is dead? Well, flush that plan...

Ahem, I don't think Kodak is doing a lot these day's, and I used thier name only as a reference towards the kind of old style production that I'd employ in a mix of Don Ho's style (using everybody's favorite drunken hit and run MC, Kimo Kahoano, who does Don like nobody can), ass kicking WW2 era Hawaiian music, and I'll bet Don Tiki would jump at the chance to enlarge thier schedual and audience as well. A good mix of all this and lot's of good steel guitar would be a sure fire hit, IF done right.
And I know lot's of the top shelf entertainers that I want involved and how to put it together for locals, tourists, and those who will never get to Hawaii.

The City getting in the way? Of course, they're mostly beaurocratic numbskulls that have no vision or priorities worth a damn (news flash). All they do is get in the way of good ideas and ruin them. That anything has been done the last few years to the Natatorium to keep it from totally caving in is only because Harris was in his beautification rush and it had to be dealt with, and tearing it down wasn't something he felt was proper (or maybe just not good PR), which it isn't. That would be stupid and an insult to very many people for lot's of legit reasons. And Mufi has no love for the Nat., so he won't do squat positive. The $ that have been spent so far have been used for mostly cosmetics. There is major foundation work needed for prolonged stability, but once the $ are spent to get it in top shape it will be relatively low maintainence.

This entity is a gold mine, not some white elephant. But it will probably end up sharing a watery graveyard with the Falls of Clyde. Just great.

[zff]

I guess I'm going to have an unpopular opinion.

While I don't think we should be knocking down buildings for no good reason, I don't think we need to preserve them for nostalgia's sake either. I like the fact that cityscapes change. The new buildings that go up will eventually mean something to somebody else. Why should one generation's nostalgia be more important that another generation's progress?

[craigwatanabe]

Well I think some buildings should be preserved as they represent the history of the area. When you replace landmarks with new buildings you lose sense of what that area was forged upon. I mean can you imagine tearing down Chinatown because of that mentality?

[Frankie's Market]

While I don't think we should be knocking down buildings for no good reason, I don't think we need to preserve them for nostalgia's sake either. I like the fact that cityscapes change. The new buildings that go up will eventually mean something to somebody else. Why should one generation's nostalgia be more important that another generation's progress?

I would say that when it comes to preservation, there needs to be balanced thinking on the matter. For example, did something historically significant take place on that site? Is the architecture of the building unique and worth saving for future generations to see and enjoy?

Even if you can yes to either of the two above questions, one would have to consider the practicality of saving that site. For example, are there any health/safety concerns with keeping that structure around? Would preservation of that site present an undue financial burden to the taxpayers? Could our society, as a whole, benefit more from an alternative use of the land rather than having it preserved, status quo?

A lot of significant things took place at Honolulu Stadium, for example. Elvis performed there. So did baseball hall of fame legends Babe Ruth and Joe Dimaggio. Be that as it may, how practical would it have been to keep a 20,000 seat stadium that was termite eaten, falling apart, and had become a fire hazard? How practical would it have been to keep it around when its primary tenants (UH football, Hawaii Islanders baseball, high school leagues) all abandoned it and moved their games to Aloha Stadium? See what I mean.

And I would also put forth a similar argument against the idea of preserving the Natatorium pool, since it is present a health hazard for anyone who swims in it. It has no practical use as no athletic organization holds saltwater swim meets in this day and age. Even trying to convert its usage (beach v-ball stadium, entertainment venue) would present an undue hardship for taxpayers seeing as no one knows how many more millions of dollars it would cost to keep the structure safe and intact, in the face of weathering and the elements. Finally, the public could certainly benefit from having additional beach space in Waikiki. Looking at everything as a whole, it is a no-brainer for me. The Natatorium made sense in 1927. It makes no sense in 2008. Tear down the pool now and restore the War Memorial arch.

[craigwatanabe]

A lot of significant things took place at Honolulu Stadium, for example. Elvis performed there. So did baseball hall of fame legends Babe Ruth and Joe Dimaggio. Be that as it may, how practical would it have been to keep a 20,000 seat stadium that was termite eaten, falling apart, and had become a fire hazard? How practical would it have been to keep it around when its primary tenants (UH football, Hawaii Islanders baseball, high school leagues) all abandoned it and moved their games to Aloha Stadium? See what I mean.

Don't forget race car legend Jerry Unser and his famed #92 at the Termite Palace when stock car racing was common in 1954.

At least I wished the powers that be left some kind of marker/plaque for Home plate at Stadium Park. I wish someone would survey the area and locate the position of that plate. AT LEAST THEY COULD HAVE LEFT THAT!:mad:

[zff]

If a developer wanted to raze Chinatown, it would be cruel to the folks that work and shop there. Ignoring that, however, I don't really see the downside. If Chinatown were razed, but there was consumer demand for it to exist -- which I'm sure there'd be -- another one will appear somewhere else on the island. Apart from the time the vendors and shoppers spent temporarily orphaned, what have we really lost?

If there is an important historic lesson to be passed on with the preservation of a building, then yes, I can see value in preserving it. That kind of thing is few and far in-between, however. What I don't see, is the point of preserving something for simple nostalgia. If progress can accommodate nostalgia, then fine. If it can't, then progress -- almost no matter how small -- should take priority.

I will agree that it's always a pity to see buildings with interesting architecture torn down, but it doesn't matter how old the building is or what nostalgic value it holds for anyone. The thread starter is talking about something different, however. He says things are changing too fast from 'the good old days'. I don't agree. I walk around Waikiki, and I'm glad it's not the same as from kid day's. I don't ever remember really wishing things would stay the same, but I've often wished things would evolve more quickly. For better or for worse, I love the fact that the world is changing around me.

[Ron Whitfield]

FM, I obviously don't share your views. Hawaii needing more beach is almost like Eskimos needing more ice. I'm sitting on a mile of pristine virtually unused beach here on the North shore. Come on out, and bring your cannon.
Remember in the 60s Iolani Palace was going to be torn down? Just think of the new no style structure or parking lot that future generations could have regaled over.

The pool? Forget the pool. That'll never be resolved.

Those with little vision and/or respect for the past are all about tearing down in the name of progress or whatever and the rest of us are left with nothing worth caring much about concerning our surroundings.

Example - another Micky Ds, or the Haleiwa Theater? I know what side I'm on.

[zff]

Those with little vision and/or respect for the past are all about tearing down in the name of progress or whatever and the rest of us are left with nothing worth caring much about concerning our surroundings.I apologize if you feel like I insulted you. I honestly didn't mean it that way. I simply don't experience nostalgia in the same way as you, and I was expressing my point of view.

I don't want to sound like I'm not nostalgic. I have fond memories of going to Honolulu Stadium with my Dad, but I'll bet there are tons of people who have fond memories from the park that replaced it. I have fond memories of the Skyslide in Mapunapuna, and I'll bet kids who got their first car at that Scion dealership will also have fond memories from that plot of land.

I'm with you on the McDonalds, though, it's hard to consider that one progress. Still, I'll bet there are kids now who will have fond memories of that McDonalds when it's gone.

I don't think it's fair to say progress will leave us with nothing to care about. We can be just as fond of new things as we can for old things they replaced. I don't think that preserving the things that are nostalgic to me should impede progress. After all, the results of that progress will likely become nostalgic to someone else. Perhaps I do lack vision, but in my eyes, the past does not need to be physically preserved in order to respect it.

[Ron Whitfield]

I didn't direct that remark at you, but more at the movers and shakers that call the shots and leave us feeling helpless as we lose it all. I try to temper my nostalgia/respect with and equal eye to the realities at hand. That's why I feel hopeful that the few big projects I focus on have a legitimate potential to not only suceed but exceed expectations.
If I could have my wishes granted concerning the Nat., it would be spectacular, and truly benefit millions.
Such as dreams are made of, but I've had them come true more than a few times.

Good one on the McDonalds!

But, how can you respect something physical that is long gone and little/no record of and nobody talks about any more? The kid's out this side don't know nothing about the Haleiwa Theater and the awesome things that occured there that are part of thier heritage and would be of great benefit for them to be aware of. And that's just ONE example amongst the millions on this island alone. That's a part of how we've lost touch with each other and have such rage in society that is out of control.

[Frankie's Market]

FM, I obviously don't share your views. Hawaii needing more beach is almost like Eskimos needing more ice. I'm sitting on a mile of pristine virtually unused beach here on the North shore.

Well that's great,.... if you live on the North Shore. But what about the local folks who live in Waikiki? Kaimana Beach (which is where the Natatorium's bacteria-infested pool sits) is an area where kama'ainas have enjoyed a beach/park area that is not overcrowded with tourists. Demolishing that obsolete pool will create more beach area and open space for people to enjoy. Maybe that's something that folks on the North Shore take for granted. But in the Waikiki area, every little bit of it is valuable and adds to the quality of life for the residents who live there.

Remember in the 60s Iolani Palace was going to be torn down? Just think of the new no style structure or parking lot that future generations could have regaled over.

Comparing Iolani Palace to the Natatorium is absurd. Iolani Palace suffered from extensive termite damage, but the frame and foundation were sound. The Natatorium sits right next to the ocean, and there's a lot of structural and engineering uncertainties surrounding what it will take to preserve it, pool or no pool.

[Ron Whitfield]

That's the attitude of those that moved next to the Waikiki Shell and the cried and cried about the music and actually managed to ruined it for evrybody.

The Nat. was there well before most anybody living in/using the areas and most are there at thier own behest. How they can rant about wanting it gone is rediculous, especially if it's in top condition. Those at Kaimana have to put up with the fact that they are living in the heart of it all and space has always been limited there. They should be grateful and happy, I would think. It ain't called the gold coast for nothing. And those traveling even short distances are going there as a choice.
Leaving the structure and promoting my plans would give them terrific entertainment and a great atmospher for free. But some would grumble about that too, no doubt.

And I reitterate, the pool should not be a focus, as it indeed should be eliminated or transformed as I suggest, or something better.

We don't know yet what the prognosis of the foundation at beachfront is, and if it's too far gone, so be it. But if not, forge ahead full steam with a terrific plan and GET IT DONE. The opportunities thrown away on this island is stunning, and so pointless.

[MixedPlateBroker]

I heard they had once planned to keep the marquee, but not much point to that. I can't think of a pre-war aged theater still in action on Oahu now, outside of the one in Ft Shafter.
Sgt. Smith Theater (http://starbulletin.com/2008/06/29/features/story02.html) at Schofield.

[Ron Whitfield]

I saw that, and thot about this thread, then forgot.
Wish I could still get on base to enjoy these old theaters.

[MixedPlateBroker]

Don't they let just about anyone on base who says they're going to one of the bars or bowling alleys? That was always my "in" back in the (pre-9/11) day.

[leashlaws]

Don't they let just about anyone on base who says they're going to one of the bars or bowling alleys? That was always my "in" back in the (pre-9/11) day.

We did just that a long time ago. We had a store outing to Cosmic bowling at Kaneohe base, lots of fun in their alley. I only went because if you didn't sign up to go you had to work instead which meant closing the store and all the clean up and folding and stuff like that late into the night.:eek: I did enjoy all of the black light effects and such although I have always been a lousy bowler!