Molokai Ranch closing operations

[LikaNui]

Shocking news for Molokai.
From this Star-Bulletin story (http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=6872) we read:
Molokai Ranch said today it will shut down its operations on Molokai at the end of the month and lay off more than 120 staff over the next 60 days.
Molokai Ranch owner Molokai Properties, a subsidiary of Singapore-based GuocoLeisure Ltd., is blaming the move on community opposition to its development plans for the island.
The company will shut down Molokai Lodge, the Kaupoa Beach Village, the Kaluakoi Golf Course, the Maunaloa gas station, the Maunaloa Tri-Plex theater, and its cattle-rearing business.
Molokai Ranch said it told its employees of the move today.
The development plan called for construction of a 200-lot luxury subdivision on 500 acres of land at Laau Point, using the revenues to revive long-dormant Kaluakoi Resort.
At the same time, the ranch would set aside 50,000 acres for open space and conservation easement.


And from this Advertiser story (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080324/BREAKING01/80324064) we read:
Maui Mayor Charmaine Tavares called Molokai Properties announced shutdown today "devastating news" while Moloka'i Councilman Danny A. Mateo described it as "a mean-spirited conclusion to punish a community."
Both expressed concerns about the impact today's announcement will have on the already depressed economy of the island in a news release issued shortly before 4 p.m.

In her statement, Tavares said:
"The impact on the community will be quite serious. I'm concerned for the employees and families that are affected. This is devastating news and they will be the ones who will feel it the most. While I have great faith in the tenacity and resiliency of the people of Moloka'i, I am concerned about their economic future."
Tavares added, "For an island that has the state's highest unemployment rate, this adds to an already stressful employment situation. We'll be looking for ways that the county, state and nonprofit community can provide support to the workers and their families. My staff has been informed that the state's Workforce Development Division and the state Unemployment Insurance Office are expected to send a rapid response team to Moloka'i in the next few days to meet with the affected employees. We'll also be examining closely existing agreements that the county has in place with the company to ensure that responsibilities are met.
"Economically, this will be a difficult time for Moloka'i. Although the company's decision is very disheartening, this is also an opportunity where the Moloka'i community can look at options for sustainability that the majority of the people would wholeheartedly support."

(...)

Mateo, who represents Moloka'i on the Maui Council, said:
"Finding work on-island for the many people who will lose their jobs is next to impossible," Mateo said. "I'm concerned about potential foreclosures of homes and other immediate impacts to those affected. I see this as really impacting not just the company's employees that are directly affected, but being detrimental to the visitor industry on Moloka'i and the cottage industries that are tied to it. There's the rodeo arena, theater, gas station, and grocery store — all operated by Moloka'i Ranch."
Added Mateo:
"This is so unfortunate and disappointing. With it being final, it seems to be a mean-spirited conclusion to punish a community that isn't ready to deal with the type of project the company wanted. A project that didn't fit. To subject the community to increased economic hardship is unfortunate. Bringing about economic woe to a community that already has next to zero employment opportunities is terrible.

Molokai Ranch owns about 40% of the entire island. They announced they will be closing public access to all of their property.

[Random]

Oh, great. Shutting down the only theater on Moloka'i. Never mind it usually takes an hour to drive from Kaunakaka'i to Maunaloa. :rolleyes:

[Konaguy]

In a way this not surprising. When their proposed La'au point project ran into severe road blocks, it wasn't a question if Molokai Ranch was going to shut
down but when. Nonetheless, this will have a extremely negative impact on Molokai, especially on the town of Mauna Loa. Which is Molokai Ranch's HQ.
In short, Molokai Ranch was Mauna Loa town. A lot of their soon to be closed operations are up there.

My girlfriend is from Molokai. I visited over there about a year ago. So I'm very familiar with the profound negative effects this closure will have on Molokai.

[pzarquon]

I don't understand all the hand-wringing about this announcement. If you say you don't want economic development in your community, how can you be surprised if developers pull out? People don't go into business to lose money on charity cases. If Molokai wanted to assert that life is better without a resort, then here's their chance to prove it.

[Konaguy]

Molokai Ranch pinned their economic survival on developing La'au point. Which to me was a unwise proposition. They should've renovated the closed
Kaluakoi resort instead. Which was a more appropriate course of action.

I don't think build a up scale subdivision with up to 200 McMansions can be construed as something appropriate for Molokai. La'au point is a very sacred
area. On top of that water is very finite resource on Molokai. These 200 McMansions would be sucking up a lot of that precious resource.

[Da Rolling Eye]

Bummer. Had a lot of fond memories of Kaluakoi and Maunaloa and hunting axis deer on MR land. :(

[LikaNui]

I don't understand all the hand-wringing about this announcement. If you say you don't want economic development in your community, how can you be surprised if developers pull out? People don't go into business to lose money on charity cases. Molokai Ranch is owned by Hong Kong-based GuocoLeisure Ltd. It strikes me that perhaps they should have done due diligence before ever purchasing MR, and they would have realized that their development plans would run into the proverbial brick wall.

Well, time for your thanks. :o

[Random]

I don't understand all the hand-wringing about this announcement. If you say you don't want economic development in your community, how can you be surprised if developers pull out? People don't go into business to lose money on charity cases. If Molokai wanted to assert that life is better without a resort, then here's their chance to prove it.
I'm hoping that MCSC would buy the Ranch out, even if it has to go at it by parcel.

[timkona]

I don't understand what everybody is so upset about. This is what the most vocal residents of Molokai want for their island. This should be viewed as wonderful news, especially by all the folks on Molokai who participated in the stonewalling. Victory is at hand. Why would Mayor Tavares or Councilman Mateo be critical of the outcome? As politicians, you would think they would be in favor of whatever their constituents desire. Folks on Molokai want to be stuck in a time capsule of total intransigence and zero change.

This is a perfect example of the old saw about Be Careful What You Wish For.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. ROFLMFAO :cool:

[Konaguy]

I think in this case zero change is something good. Molokai is someplace very unique and special. I absolutely fell in love with the rural ambiance when I
visited there last year. The La'au project would've negatively changed Molokai forever.

On top of that I don't think building 200 McMansions would've provided any long term economic relief to Molokai. The ranch's owners should've renovated
the mothballed Kaluakoi Resort instead of trying to shove this illogical project down every residents throats.

In short, Molokai Ranch gambled that La'au would've been their silver bullet.But instead they miscalculated the huge community opposition to this divisive
project. Because of the latter, now everyone suffers.

[timkona]

This is liberal suicidal politics at its finest hour.

Libs protest the development due to the fact that it represents progress, change, employment, future, et al. Their dissent is successful and Molokai Ranch realizes it's hopeless and decides that it's just bad business on Molokai. So they decide to cut their losses and close up shop. 120 hardworking mothers, fathers, homeowners, renters, consumers, lose their jobs. (Do you feel sorry for the children? Or not?) The ripple effect will be terrific to every other business on Molokai. Of course, losing one's job is excellent in the eyes of any card carrying liberal. Then the government has to rush in to help displaced workers with unemployment, workforce development, and other government handout programs. Of course, the more the government spends money on any kind of welfare, and runs the lives of the people, the better libs love it. And now for the punchline.........Molokai Ranch is the bad guy, the libs honestly view themselves as altruistic and well intentioned, and the regular workin folk get the shaft, again.

I betcha nobody is angry at the lib protesters who could fairly be labeled as the bad guy in this debacle. Too damn funny. :cool:

As a sidenote, it is funny to me that Molokai protesters have successfully kept fastfood joints at bay. Then you drive around and see a Subway. LOL.

[Random]

The foreign-owned corporate-minded Moloka'i Ranch will always be the bad guy, and they just showed it this week.

They could have backed off or negotiate with the community, but they kept pushing and pushing for five years with no compromise in their master plan.

[Vanguard]

Oh, great. Shutting down the only theater on Moloka'i. Never mind it usually takes an hour to drive from Kaunakaka'i to Maunaloa. :rolleyes:

Now I know how I'll support myself in Hawaii. I'll open a theater on Molokai! :p

[Nords]

Now I know how I'll support myself in Hawaii. I'll open a theater on Molokai! :p
You'll want to build it next to wherever they decide to put the cruise terminals and the SuperFerry pier...

[craigwatanabe]

You'll want to build it next to wherever they decide to put the cruise terminals and the SuperFerry pier...

AND make sure you get the blessings from Walter.

I have to admit though, from a landowners standpoint, they were giving a lot away for this development. I think that was a decent compromise. Ritte to me was the one that didn't and in the end Molokai Ranch pulled out.

Now Walter Ritte and his group is asking the developer to come back to the table for more negotiations. I think it's a bit too late for that. You can only protest so far, after that it's not worth bargaining.

Good or evil, it was Molokai Ranch's call and they had every right to do what they did.

[craigwatanabe]

Amazing editorial from this morning's Honolulu Advertiser:

SENATE SUCCUMBING TO ANGRY ACTIVISTS

The recent closing of Molokai Ranch is a sad story of how the angry and unreasonable voices of a minority of Moloka'i residents caused the rest of the Friendly Isle to suffer. After a lengthy consultation with the community, Molokai Ranch agreed to turn over 50,000 acres to a public trust to maintain the open space lifestyle of Moloka'i in exchange for the right to develop a high-quality residential project at La'au Point.

The loud activists caused the politicians to stop the project. Now 120 residents are without jobs and Moloka'i will not be getting the 50,000-acre trust and revenue in perpetuity from the development project.

A similar thing is happening with the OHA proposed settlement. The Senate is succumbing to angry activists. The settlement is a reasonable compromise. Leaders can never satisfy everyone. If the Senate does not like the settlement, then improve it but do not lose this golden opportunity like Moloka'i did. Life is fragile and full of examples of where an un-acted upon opportunity today becomes a forever-lost opportunity tomorrow.

Colette Machado
Trustee, Moloka'i and Lana'i, Office of Hawaiian Affairs

Not quite the majority in favor of Ritte it seems.

[Frankie's Market]

Majority of the residents on Molokai may have supported the ranch, but they were a silent majority.

http://www.khon2.com/home/ticker/17005111.html

DeMello says many residents support the ranch and its efforts.
"There's a lot also with us -- and most of them the people that are with us don't want to voice themselves because I'm afraid," said Demello.

Well lady, by being afraid to speak up, you and those like you have let your destiny be controlled by a loud minority. Sorry, but you'll get no sympathy from me.

Looking at the bigger picture, though, I think this is a lesson for everybody in this state. That the interests of the local community and commerce needs to be balanced out for the greater good. We can't just think, "Get rid of all the parades in Waikiki. Slows down my drive time!" Or "Too many damn tourists on this beach. I wish they would all just stay away from here so there's more space for us locals." Of course, the economy on Oahu is not singlehandedly controlled by one company. But I think the same principal applies. For the greater good, everybody need to make compromises in order to economically co-exist. "My way or the highway" usually does not lead to good results.

[Konaguy]

I really believe that the reporting on this shutdown has been unfairly biased against the people fighting against this project. Which to me is not fair or
accurate. Molokai Ranch's owner put all their eggs in one basket. Which was very costly mistake on their part.

It blows my mind that everyone who has commented on this shutdown doesn't have a problem with paving over La'au.Building up to 200 McMansions at La'au point would've ruined that area forever.

I can already guess that most people will call me a hypocrite based upon my other opinions I've expressed over the years. But thats their problem, not mine.
I've seen how rampant over development can negatively change places.I don't have look any farther than driving around Kailua-Kona.

[Random]

Now I know how I'll support myself in Hawaii. I'll open a theater on Molokai! :p
See if you can buy the Maunaloa Tri-Plex Cinema and then open up a chain near Kaunakaka'i.

To be honest, a wind farm sounds better than luxury mansions on my home island.

[timkona]

Molokai....Walter Ritte.....Walter Ritte....Walter Ritte


How nice to have a name to associate with the IGNORANCE !!!!!!!

More people should concentrate on naming names in Hawaii. Show who is who in the zoo and pretty soon the dumb$H!+$ will get tired of being the targets and shut their ignorant mouths. Ignorance is like a religion in Hawaii. I can only hope that displaced workers (like mothers and fathers) will search out this dumba$$ and beat him senseless. Oh....too late....he already nomoa cents.

Walter WHO!!! Just another ignoramus. Yup I said it. Thats me. And I'm easy to find. Careful what you look for.

And those of you who feel offended are just as ignorant.

Bwahahahahahahahaahahahahahahhhhahaaaaaahhhhaaaaaa ahhh

OMG ROFL ROFLMAO ROFLMFAO....laugh laugh laugh.....Talked about it in the bar tonight....drinking a Coors Lt...laughed there too.....offended a lot of liberals....grinding their stupid noses in it......woooooo hoooooo.....this is fun stuff...I'm gonna get so much mileage out of this. This is like a holiday to ridicule idiots.

Now go vote for Clinton or Obama and continue to prove what a stupid $h!+ you truly are.

Oh man.....bwahahaha....I am as joyous as all the liberals who feel like they have saved Molokai.

Edit : I wonder if anybody on Molokai is brave enough to publish where Mr. Ritte actually resides such that the unemployed might know where to vent their frustrations. Bet not.

[Random]

Sleep it off, timkona.

I'm gonna pretend it's the alcohol talkin'.

[craigwatanabe]

Sleep it off, timkona.

I'm gonna pretend it's the alcohol talkin'.

Yep hittin da bottle again :D

But ho man when the mind goes numb, the truth comes flying out.

Walter Ritte, I tink dis one wen backfire. True La'au Point is pristine lands (I've been there and was astounded) but the majority have spoken.

One thing about Molokai, everyone knows each other there and when one speaks out, the entire island knows about it. So if you speak out against certain activism, you better make sure you get the backing of the rest of the plantation folk on the West side.

[timkona]

A Coors Lt and a steak dinner hardly qualifies as hittin da bottle. And as many of you know, I have no fear whatsoever of blurting out the balls truth like a 3 phase claxon horn. Most, who are truly ignorant, scream "Kill the Messenger" because they are too scared of themselves, and their warped belief systems, to actually hear the message.

I'm still laughing, and guarantee I'm gonna spend the next month, at least, reminding libs what a bunch of dimwits they are, and using Molokai as the poster child of proof.

And as a sidenote for clarity, I would add that, to my mind, there is a large distinction between liberals and Democrats. Bill is a Dem. Hill is a lib. It's not the Dems that are the problem. Heck, I even think gay marriage is okay. But the knee jerk, protesting, activist-minded, whacko liberals, who screw up our world on a daily basis, and bog down an already over-burdened system, and who, by and large, come from a certain generation and demographic, are a real bad problem in America today. Molokai just highlights this with stark relief.

And just think, without all those jobs on Molokai, perhaps more folks there will turn to drugs. Better yet, maybe the children will grow up and move away. Oh joy !!!! Bwahahahahahaha. Nice going Uncle Walter, you ding-bat. Can't wait to meet ya.

PS - Been to Laau Point also. It's nice. But dry and dusty and hot. And the ocean there is not exactly "friendly". If you gonna give rich folk a place to live, why not give them the crap land. They don't really know the difference between the beauty of a tropical rainforest setting like South Kona or East Molokai, and the windy, dry nightmare of South Kohala and West Molokai.

PSS - You gotta like those poll numbers on McCain right now. Libs are just pretend playing politics as they watch the Hill vs. Obama battle. Just another example of wishful morons. A mind is a terrible thing.:cool:

[timkona]

And I dare any of you on this board who represent the ignorance to stand up to that last post.

Chickens.....all y'all. Knowing that the core of the belief system you subscribe to is just pure malarkey.

Oh this is so fun !!!!!! Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahladhga;;s hg;fdag hrpotgvomituvbrvmw;eog hflgh[ugovc,jqo;eirwthwcpmticghamkdfjav;odifhcvw;igueqm[ctq3[oericv

Cucamongacringa.

[tutusue]

Yikes...this thread is getting very bizarre. :(

[timkona]

Parts of the thread are very logical and truthful.

What is happening on Molokai is very bizarre, and cruelly sad.

[Leo Lakio]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahladhga;;s hg;fdag hrpotgvomituvbrvmw;eog hflgh[ugovc,jqo;eirwthwcpmticghamkdfjav;odifhcvw;igueqm[ctq3[oericv
Stay away from the Coors Light, Tim, and you won't have so much of the part I highlighted. That stuff's p!$$water. :p

[timkona]

Oh yeah Leo....you are so funny. That was pure random, and yet look what I spelled.

I'm still laughing at the activism, and crying for the children of the unemployed.

[Random]

I may be voting for McCain this election, but even I don't like seeing luxury mansions over there. Better to have an affordable Hawaiian farmer's and fisherman's village housing with wind farms.

[timkona]

Nothing on Molokai is affordable to people who have no income. What???? You expect the government to give the money for folks to build or buy a home? Or maybe just cut some palm fronds and chiave trees and build a thatch hut?

Don't you fn get it????? So ignorant.

I will hammer this thread until admin gets tired. Or any liberal fesses up to the fact that they subscribe to, and believe in, a totally stupid way of thinking.

[Random]

Nothing on Molokai is affordable to people who have no income. What???? You expect the government to give the money for folks to build or buy a home? Or maybe just cut some palm fronds and chiave trees and build a thatch hut?
I expect Moloka'i Ranch to stop strong-arming the people there. Maybe it's time Moloka'i own Moloka'i Ranch, not Malaysia.

[cynsaligia]

Chickens.....all y'all. Knowing that the core of the belief system you subscribe to is just pure malarkey.

it's not that anyone here observing the pathetic spectacle you are making of yourself is chicken.

perhaps your life is exceedingly troubled or desperately unsatisfactory. maybe you suffer some form of mental illness or somehow you feel impotent in some aspect.

many on HT are truly good, salt of the earth folk. no matter what ugly, ranting drivel you type (sober or drunk) that incorporates faulty logic to insult broadly the very ears you ask them to lend, they will graciously refuse to kick someone who is down.

me? i shall aspire to be so charitable.

[joshuatree]

I really believe that the reporting on this shutdown has been unfairly biased against the people fighting against this project. Which to me is not fair or
accurate. Molokai Ranch's owner put all their eggs in one basket. Which was very costly mistake on their part.

It blows my mind that everyone who has commented on this shutdown doesn't have a problem with paving over La'au.Building up to 200 McMansions at La'au point would've ruined that area forever.

I can already guess that most people will call me a hypocrite based upon my other opinions I've expressed over the years. But thats their problem, not mine.
I've seen how rampant over development can negatively change places.I don't have look any farther than driving around Kailua-Kona.

What exactly should MR have done in your opinion? There was all this talk about water resources. What about desalinization? And I don't understand why this Walter guy is now trying to get another developer into the fray? If he's so gung-ho about preserving Molokai, why get another developer here?

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

[turtlegirl]

Wouldn't homes with views of the natural beauty of La'au Point (from somewhere besides on the point) be much much nicer than destroying the point to make homes?
Just my two cents...

[Konaguy]

What exactly should MR have done in your opinion? There was all this talk about water resources. What about desalinization? And I don't understand why this Walter guy is now trying to get another developer into the fray? If he's so gung-ho about preserving Molokai, why get another developer here?


MR should've focused on revitalizing the Kaluakoi Resort hotel and the surround resort area instead of trying to shove this illogical project at La'au down the throats of the residents of Molokai.

Water is only part of the reason I'm opposed to any development at La'au.
So even if they built desalinization plant on Molokai, I'd still be opposed to developing La'au. Building up to 200 McMansions there would have a profoundly negative impact on Molokai.

I can't comment on the assertion that Walter is trying to get another developer into the fray. I'm only aware that there was a possibility that a
wind farm company was willing to front 50 million to purchase Molokai Ranch

[Frankie's Market]

I really believe that the reporting on this shutdown has been unfairly biased against the people fighting against this project. Which to me is not fair or
accurate. Molokai Ranch's owner put all their eggs in one basket. Which was very costly mistake on their part.

It blows my mind that everyone who has commented on this shutdown doesn't have a problem with paving over La'au.Building up to 200 McMansions at La'au point would've ruined that area forever.

I can already guess that most people will call me a hypocrite based upon my other opinions I've expressed over the years. But thats their problem, not mine.

Is that a squeaky wheel I hear in the background?

[Konaguy]

Is that a squeaky wheel I hear in the background?

Ok I guess I am a hypocrite then ? But there is a rationale behind this. I've seen how much my hometown (Kailua-Kona) has radically changed for the worse after
years of rampant over development. Building up to 200 McMansions at La'au would've permanently and irreversibly changed Molokai.

[timkona]

Imagine trying to build a desalinization (sp?) plant on Molokai. Oh the protest. Besides, anybody who talks about water as if it is a problem is simply not aware that water plants exist throughout our planet. Again, beliefs and feelings will overpower science, facts, and knowledge.

Protest and activism is the problem folks. Liberalism has reached such a sad state that it reveres intransigence at the expense of the future. Molokai is merely the straw breaking the camel's back.

The sickest part is the lack of sympathy displayed by liberalism in general, as folks struggle to make it, lose their homes, fall on hard times, etc etc, all as the result of a high-minded, yet terribly misguided mindset. Liberals would describe themselves as charitable, but it is their actions that cause a demand for charity. See the Catch-22. Or not? :cool:

[timkona]

If Laau Point is such a beautiful place, why is it that there are no people living there all these years?? Halawa Valley is a truly a beautiful place, and life and living thrive there.

Again, if rich folk want the crap land, why not let them have it. Think South Kohala, Hokulia (where even cattle could not successfully be grazed for over 120 years).

Sounds to me like the root politics in this story are all about the protest itself, and not the actual issues that surround the story. Protest and activism has become the life blood of liberalism, at the expense of logic and rationality.

[timkona]

Hey Konaguy, you know and I know that the development in Kona has consisted of more $500,000 homes than million dollar homes. And that the liberal protest has increased the price for everything at every step of the way, across the board.

Lots of folks in Kona will lament the growth in one breath, then brag about their 16 grandkids in the next breath. Complete cognitive dissonance. If you don't like the growth, try protesting procreation. :cool:

I am heartbroken for the folks on Molokai. But not a single one of them will attempt to stifle the voices of protest led by Uncle Walter. Way to go Uncle.

[Creative-1]

For me, the question is: Is it possible for things to stay the same and not change?

All over the state, there are people who don't want their communities to change. Molokai, Kahuku, Superferry, it's the same thing.

But I question whether it's even possible to "keep the country country."

The world is changing and that puts pressures on communities and forces them into making choices between what may seem like bad choices.

If they don't change, then the kids and many of the adults won't be able to find jobs and will have to leave.

[Random]

If they don't change, then the kids and many of the adults won't be able to find jobs and will have to leave.
If change is in the form of 500 luxury homes, I don't want that.

If change is in the form of wind farms and a working cultural village, I do want that.

I was wondering. Did Lana'i went down the same road of development?

[timkona]

What the hey is a "working cultural village"???? LOLOL

Just more wishful thinking, mumbo jumbo, soft minded, malarkey.

Creative-1 nailed it. Brilliant. Well said.

[Random]

What the hey is a "working cultural village"???? LOLOL

Just more wishful thinking, mumbo jumbo, soft minded, malarkey.

Creative-1 nailed it. Brilliant. Well said.
And what is wrong with a wind farm?

I don't mind change. I just want change to be in the right direction.

Heck I may be in favor of rail transit but I don't know if I want to hear the rachety noise of steel wheel on steel rail on a quiet night, unless I live in Waikiki (and I lobotomize myself).

[joshuatree]

And what is wrong with a wind farm?

Nothing wrong but I always thought activists didn't want any blight on the natural landscape? Wouldn't a swarm of windmills be a blight? Or the possible noise from the giant turbines spinning?

The latest news I read is that MK is considering parceling out the land in 100+ plots. That would seem to provide more development because each owner will do something on their parcel?

Additional thought, where's the OHA? Why don't they step in to ensure Molokai is kept country?

[Frankie's Market]

Nothing wrong but I always thought activists didn't want any blight on the natural landscape? Wouldn't a swarm of windmills be a blight? Or the possible noise from the giant turbines spinning?

Which would be the bigger blight? Which would have the more destructive effect on the environment?

Seeing windmills on a hill or drilling for oil in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge? Take your pick.

[Konaguy]

When I first flew over Molokai and saw a mile long beach and wide open spaces I got real chicken skin. I felt the mana of the island. Thus I could understand completely understand the fight against developing La'au. The La'au project would've negatively and irreversibly changed Molokai forever.

La'au may be desolate and empty. But it is also a sacred area and important fishing grounds for the residents.I don't expect you to understand either of the
latter, Tim.

[68-eldo]

La'au may be desolate and empty. But it is also a sacred area and important.........

Is there any scrap of land anywhere in the state of Hawaii that is not sacred?

[Konaguy]

Is there any scrap of land anywhere in the state of Hawaii that is not sacred?

I'm not going to quantify that with a response. All I can say is visit Molokai and then come back and talk to me. Then you'll understand my point of view.

[Random]

Additional thought, where's the OHA? Why don't they step in to ensure Molokai is kept country?
Beats me. I wonder if OHA ever did explore other alternatives such as a wind farm as the expert panel for mass transit thoroughly explore the other options besides steel wheel on steel rail.

To steal from a quote about Caesar, are you saying that OHA can do no wrong?

I can't helped but question why OHA Trustee Colette Machado would be in favor of it. I'm more willing to believe a former OHA Trustee and former Moloka'i resident Clayton Hee who oppose the Master Plan.

[joshuatree]

I'm not going to quantify that with a response. All I can say is visit Molokai and then come back and talk to me. Then you'll understand my point of view.

Well 68-eldo does have a point. Perhaps people use the defense that a certain place is sacred one too many times? Because if everything is sacred, then everything's not very sacred to begin with.

I guess I'm just activism fatigued. Have these people suggested anything else that MK could do or did they just simply c*ck blocked every thing MK tried to do? If it's the latter, I think the activists have destroyed Molokai's livelihood.

[Random]

Well 68-eldo does have a point. Perhaps people use the defense that a certain place is sacred one too many times? Because if everything is sacred, then everything's not very sacred to begin with.
All I can tell you from my eyes, we have seen Maui and Oahu being overdeveloped -- sometimes with government help -- and wish our "fringe" island would not go down that route.

Tell me, how can 500 luxury homes benefit the entire Moloka'i community (and not just the MR's local employees)?

[joshuatree]

Tell me, how can 500 luxury homes benefit the entire Moloka'i community (and not just the MR's local employees)?

If we're strictly speaking of financial benefit, then I would say property tax that could go into govt coffers, perhaps a County of Molokai instead? And of course, the people who end up living there would be spending for goods and services.

Now, I'm not saying 500 (wasn't it 200?) homes is the only option. But I'm wondering did the activists tried to work with MR or did they simply object every step of the way? Didn't MR offer to set aside 20,000+ acres as preservation?

[Random]

If we're strictly speaking of financial benefit, then I would say property tax that could go into govt coffers, perhaps a County of Molokai instead? And of course, the people who end up living there would be spending for goods and services.
As much as I dream of a Moloka'i County, I'm worried that 200 luxury homes will turn to 500, then to 700. I'm worried how property tax assessment will not only affect those homes but other homes on the island.

Now, I'm not saying 500 (wasn't it 200?) homes is the only option. But I'm wondering did the activists tried to work with MR or did they simply object every step of the way? Didn't MR offer to set aside 20,000+ acres as preservation?
They had many meetings on the island, particularly one where MPL submitted than later withdrew their EIS.

http://www.themolokaidispatch.com/node/1354

[craigwatanabe]

Laau point really is pristine lands and Molokai in general is the last of the major Hawaiian Islands to reflect a way of life that can be no longer be found anywhere else one can travel openly in Hawaii.

I understand Walter Ritte's passion for conservation of pristine lands. But I also understand there are people on Molokai who don't reflect Ritte's views and they are the ones that are going to feel the bite.

Halawa Valley on the East side of Molokai really is part of the eastern side of the Us vs Them division of land that has split Molokai into two distinct classes of people. West of Kaunakakai are the homesteaders who have lived in Molokai for generations. East of Kaunakakai are those who have made Molokai their new homes from far away places. It's the basic Haole vs Hawaiian issue going on here. East Molokai had the lushness that Molokai could offer coupled with the ancient fishponds, many from outside ventured in and developed that part of Molokai. West Molokai was basically the waste lands where large tracts of Homestead lands consisted of scraggly Keawe trees and lots of dust with basic homes built for homesteaders.

The only value to West Molokai was the hunting of game and of course the pristine coastline of Laau Point. Take that away from the homesteaders and there's not much left for those in West Molokai to cherish.

Development of Laau Point would bookend those generational families that have tended those lands all those years. It's their place of refuge, and with that taken away due to development, they have nothing left. Those outsiders would have encrouched on their side of the island and slowly take them out.

To Hawaiians, the ocean is very much a part of their culture and way of life. Laau Point allows them the simple luxuries to call their own, like a diamond in the rough, it's their treasure. It really is their land, Hawaiian land. And thru development, it's not, not even in vision for the day Hawaiian's get back what was stolen over a hundred years ago.

As land become developed here in Hawaii, the vision of Hawaii reverting back to Hawaiian hands become more futile as the rich and pristine lands become developed and the cultural ways of life to all Hawaiians diminish because the sacredness of those lands are paved over in the name of progress.

What Walter Ritte really needs to do to preserve what's left of Molokai is to look at creating a natural preserve to ensure no further progress encrouches on the cultural significance of that area in question. But also he needs to address the needs of those living there to satisfy their need for sustanance. Any form of governance would address those needs whether they were American or Hawaiian.

[timkona]

All the handwringing so touches the cockles of my heart. Even down to the sub-cockles. :cool:

I thought it was 200 homes and 50,000 preserved acres. Perhaps we should exagerate what is perceived as bad, and minimize what is perceived as good, in true liberal fasion.

I wonder what Uncle Walter does (did) for a living?

Wasteland? In Hawaii? Harumphhh! By the way folks, back in the day, Hawaiians did not own ANY of the land. It belonged to the King.

Hey Random, I've no problem with a wind farm. Did I say that? But what the hey is a "working cultural village"? Or just avoid the question.

Hey Konaguy, why not answer the question about any scrap of land being sacred? I dare you.

[Leo Lakio]

Is there any scrap of land anywhere in the state of Hawaii that is not sacred?For that matter, every space in the world is sacred to somebody, at some level. How do you determine whose claim of "sacred" is important enough to prevent development? Ask that question of the Indian bands here on the Mainland.

In other words, you know there's no simple answer.

[craigwatanabe]

There's quite a lot of land towards the western end of Molokai that cannot be farmed simply because of the arridness of that area. It's hot and dry with little resources along the way to satisfy anyone living out there. That's why water is so important on the west end.

There may be 50,000 acres of land set aside, but what kind of land is it? If it's on the west side, that's not what I'd consider a good balance. Keep the good stuff and give away the undevelopable lands?

With land swaps going on with ceded lands, more and more of the good ceded lands are being traded away for lands that hold less value both in economic and cultural significance.

Yes Hawaiians never owned any lands, but it's the nation of Hawaii that will be reduced to lands that will be difficult to manage and live upon. Imagine having a really nice home and having a guest take over the living room, then your master bedroom, then the patio next to the pool. Then they bring in their family and occupy all the bedrooms and take over the kitchen.

Pretty soon you and your family are pushed into the garage. Okay that garage has a nice opening to the great outdoors, but hey now that guest and their family decides to occupy your driveway and the encrouchment begins squeezing you out of your home and into the dog house.

Frustrated you begin to resist this guest, so the guest negotiates a deal. He gives you the driveway and a couple of bedrooms but wants to keep the patio with the pool.

[joshuatree]

How much land does OHA own on the other islands? Think they would be willing to do a land swap? Then all or most of Molokai would be in the hands of Hawaiians. Is that a fair proposition?

[kani-lehua]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_mahele
http://www.oha.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=9&id=38&Itemid=134
http://www.oha.org/pdf/HwnHistoryTimeline.pdf

this information might provide some insight into the ownership of lands in hawai'i.

[Konaguy]

Well 68-eldo does have a point. Perhaps people use the defense that a certain place is sacred one too many times? Because if everything is sacred, then everything's not very sacred to begin with.


I completely disagree. In this case that area has a lot cultural significance and is indeed sacred (to me). When I flew into Molokai, I felt the mana of the land. I could completely understand why people are opposed to developing La'au. Up to 200 McMansions would've permanently and irreversibly changed
that area and Molokai forever.

So Tim, is that a good enough answer for you ?

[timkona]

Hey Craig, Laau is on the southwestern part of Molokai. So if it's good enough for rich folk, why is it not good enough to set aside for public trust?

This just reenforces my point about Laau being marginal land in the first place.

Konaguy, your answer was very similar to arguments I've heard against Hokulia. Have you changed your tune? Or playing the middle?

Do you really think OHA would swap some of their land for west Molokai? And how much has OHA actually helped any Hawaiians? That is as big a scam as KSBE in the islands, but nary a single Hawaiian would speak up against it.

[Konaguy]

My views on Hokulia are completely separate from La'au. I was angry that Judge Ibarra enjoined Hokulia AFTER investors spent 350 million on the project, blocked landowners from building their homes, and blocked completion of the
Hokulia bypass road.

La'au on the other hand is a completely different situation. La'au has not been developed. It is still a pristine, sacred, culturally significant area. Lands like this
should remain open space forever.

[Konaguy]

Yes the land on western Molokai is marginal land. But that really isn't the point.
I'm sure if MRP tried to develop up to 200 McMansions somewhere else on the
island there would be equal opposition.Building that many houses would dramatically negatively change the socio-economic fabric of Molokai.

[craigwatanabe]

Hey Craig, Laau is on the southwestern part of Molokai. So if it's good enough for rich folk, why is it not good enough to set aside for public trust?

This just reenforces my point about Laau being marginal land in the first place.


It should be set aside as a public trust. Remember when it comes to pristine lands on Molokai, Laau is about as good as it gets for West Molokai.

This is why I think Walter Ritte should go that route instead of activism to the level he's taken it.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Nothing on Molokai is affordable to people who have no income. What???? You expect the government to give the money for folks to build or buy a home? Or maybe just cut some palm fronds and chiave trees and build a thatch hut?

Don't you fn get it????? So ignorant.

I will hammer this thread until admin gets tired. Or any liberal fesses up to the fact that they subscribe to, and believe in, a totally stupid way of thinking.

Molokaʻi residents voted for Bush and pray for their soldiers.
Have a higher % of residents who love God and put family first.
Resist change in a mighty way.
Are happiest when they farm, fish and hunt.
Hardly qualify as a liberal community.

Well 68-eldo does have a point. Perhaps people use the defense that a certain place is sacred one too many times? Because if everything is sacred, then everything's not very sacred to begin with.

I guess I'm just activism fatigued. Have these people suggested anything else that MK could do or did they just simply c*ck blocked every thing MK tried to do? If it's the latter, I think the activists have destroyed Molokai's livelihood.

To put this in perspective:
MK ranch owns 1/3 of the isle.
It employed 1.5% of the isle's residents, reserving the highest paying jobs for flown-in help.

"Fatigue caused by activism" isn't warranted here. That company has the west end by the balls. We aren't talking Anaheim here where one Mouse owns everything in the neighborhood, but you can get on the freeway and commute to a different job. This showdown was bound to happen.

[Random]

It should be set aside as a public trust. Remember when it comes to pristine lands on Molokai, Laau is about as good as it gets for West Molokai.

This is why I think Walter Ritte should go that route instead of activism to the level he's taken it.
Problem is, I don't think he can trust Colette Machado, OHA trustee in favor of the Master Plan, who just so happens to be President of Moloka'i Land Trust.

[Random]

Hey Random, I've no problem with a wind farm. Did I say that? But what the hey is a "working cultural village"? Or just avoid the question.
Okay. Consider avoided. :D

[joshuatree]

"Fatigue caused by activism" isn't warranted here. That company has the west end by the balls. We aren't talking Anaheim here where one Mouse owns everything in the neighborhood, but you can get on the freeway and commute to a different job. This showdown was bound to happen.

But I ask again, what compromises were suggested by the activists? I tried looking for this info to better understand the situation but so far, haven't really found anything. I get the impression the activists simply said "my way or the highway"???

[Konaguy]

But I ask again, what compromises were suggested by the activists? I tried looking for this info to better understand the situation but so far, haven't really found anything. I get the impression the activists simply said "my way or the highway"???

Actually Molokai Ranch has taken more of that tact of "my way or the highway."
Even though Molokai Ranch was financially solvent (they made 12.7 million
profit off of land sales last year), they made the unilateral decision to cease operations.

[GeckoGeek]

My question is what is Molokai's plans for the future of the island. They'll have to do something to bring money into the island to pay for the things they want.

As one resident indicated, "subsidence hunting won't pay my mortgage."

[joshuatree]

Actually Molokai Ranch has taken more of that tact of "my way or the highway."
Even though Molokai Ranch was financially solvent (they made 12.7 million
profit off of land sales last year), they made the unilateral decision to cease operations.

Because as a company, they no longer wish to bleed even though they can afford to bleed, that's considered "my way or the highway"? That interpretation is truly socialistic and autocratic.

[GeckoGeek]

Because as a company, they no longer wish to bleed even though they can afford to bleed, that's considered "my way or the highway"?

I've got no clues as to the details, but wasn't there some part of the operation that made money? Why wouldn't they keep that and shutdown the money looser? What was it that made it an "all or nothing" deal business-wise?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

But I ask again, what compromises were suggested by the activists? I tried looking for this info to better understand the situation but so far, haven't really found anything. I get the impression the activists simply said "my way or the highway"???

*blink blink*

JT, look at the data again:

They own 1/3 of the island. They employ a mere 1.5% of the residents. Many of those "activists" are the employed families themselves. What were their compromises? Low wages and accepting them while realizing that the company holds title to the isle's throat. Not unionizing, nor "workman comping" the company dry. But doing their jobs and accepting their fate, as long as the MK made their profits and did their end to keep Moloka'i country.

[Konaguy]

Because as a company, they no longer wish to bleed even though they can afford to bleed, that's considered "my way or the highway"? That interpretation is truly socialistic and autocratic.

Well I do find it awfully convenient that Molokai Ranch is shutting down operations shortly after their La'au point plans get stonewalled. On the surface it seems like its foreign owners are doing retribution against all the island residents.

To me its akin to a toddler who starts to cry when his toy is taken away.

On a related note, even up to 6 months ago Molokai Properties was cash positive (http://starbulletin.com/2008/03/26/business/story01.html).

[joshuatree]

*blink blink*

JT, look at the data again:

They own 1/3 of the island. They employ a mere 1.5% of the residents. Many of those "activists" are the employed families themselves. What were their compromises? Low wages and accepting them while realizing that the company holds title to the isle's throat. Not unionizing, nor "workman comping" the company dry. But doing their jobs and accepting their fate, as long as the MK made their profits and did their end to keep Moloka'i country.

PM, no offense, but this doesn't address my question. What did the activists offer on the table as a compromise? This debate about MR's plan to build 200 homes wasn't done and over in a day, it was a couple years. So I'm just asking a fair question to see how much of the fallout was MR's fault and how much was the activist. Your reference to data can also suggest to me that people could have worked and stayed on the other 2/3 of the island if they didn't like the low wages or working conditions.

[Konaguy]

There was a letter to the editor (http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/articles/2008/04/05/opinion/letters_-_your_voice/letters01.txt) in WHT about the Molokai Ranch closure. Below is my rebuttal letter to the editor which I submitted to WHT today.

I was blown away by the arrogant letter editor written by Herb Dayton about the Molokai Ranch closure. I really believe that he has no understanding of the bigger picture here. In my view, the Molokai Ranch debacle is a completely different beast than the other projects he mentioned delayed by obstructionists.

Firstly,a huge difference between the other projects and the Molokai Ranch debacle is the fact the community at large expressed their opposition to developing La'au. Building up to 200 McMansions on that land would've negatively changed Molokai forever.

But it seems people have forgotten the latter facts. Instead the news media blame the residents of Molokai for the closure of Molokai Ranch. When they should be blaming the foreign owners of Molokai Ranch for doing this. In my opinion, what GuocoLeisure Ltd did is akin to a toddler who starts to cry when their toy is taken away. They couldn't get their entitlements due to community opposition.So they unilaterally decided to shut everything down as retribution.

I already know that some people will be calling me a hypocrite based upon my other opinions I've expressed about Hokulia, etc after they read this letter.But quite honestly I really don't care. When I visited Molokai last year with my girlfriend (who is from Molokai), I felt the mana of the land speaking to me. I literally got chicken skin as we were making our approach to Ho'olehua Airport. I would urge Mr. Dayton to visit Molokai to see the island up close and personal. Maybe then he won't be writing such arrogant letters in the future about such a special place in our state.

Aaron Stene
Kailua-Kona

[Frankie's Market]

Actually Molokai Ranch has taken more of that tact of "my way or the highway."

Hmmm, MPI offering to donate 26,000 acres to the Molokai Land Trust and setting aside another 24,950 acres for conservation in exchange for the right to develop some 600 acres is taking a "my way or the highway" approach?

I guess some people are not blinded by emotions as much as they have "selective vision." That is, seeing only what they want to see.

[Konaguy]

I guess some people are not blinded by emotions as much as they have "selective vision." That is, seeing only what they want to see.

Have you ever visited Molokai ? I visited there last year with my girlfriend (who is originally from there).

My view on that proposal is the fact they were try to bribe the community by donating all that land in exchange for Trojan horsing up to 200 McMansions
at La'au.Which would've negatively and irreversibly changed Molokai forever.

[Frankie's Market]

I've been to Molokai twice.

Listen, I can respect (if not necessarily agree with) anyone taking a "non-negotiable" stance on developing a particular parcel of land, for whatever reason. (i.e. you think its sacred, your girlfriend has sentimental memories, whatever.) But what I don't respect is mischaracterizing someone who happens to stand on the opposite side of the issue.

So fine, you don't want MPI building 200 homes at La'au Point. Period. Why embellish it with dubious claims that MPI is taking a "my way or the highway" stance when they, in fact, made an offer to donate or preserve almost 51,000 acres, which is about 85 times greater than the total land area MPI wants to develop?

Can't we stick to the facts in this discussion? Or is slandering and demonizing your opposition the only way for you to make a point?

[Konaguy]

I've been to Molokai twice.

Listen, I can respect (if not necessarily agree with) anyone taking a "non-negotiable" stance on developing a particular parcel of land, for whatever reason. (i.e. you think its sacred, your girlfriend has sentimental memories, whatever.) But what I don't respect is mischaracterizing someone who happens to stand on the opposite side of the issue.

So fine, you don't want MPI building 200 homes at La'au Point. Period. Why embellish it with dubious claims that MPI is taking a "my way or the highway" stance when they, in fact, made an offer to donate or preserve almost 51,000 acres, which is about 85 times greater than the total land area MPI wants to develop?

Can't we stick to the facts in this discussion? Or is slandering and demonizing your opposition the only way for you to make a point?

I'll let my letter to the editor I posted above (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=190591&postcount=77) speak for itself.

I will say this though. Yes MPL offered to donate all that land in exchange to develop La'au. But I think the negatives outweighed the positives. Building that many luxury houses would've irreversibly changed Molokai forever.

[joshuatree]

I'll let my letter to the editor I posted above (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=190591&postcount=77) speak for itself.

I will say this though. Yes MPL offered to donate all that land in exchange to develop La'au. But I think the negatives outweighed the positives. Building that many luxury houses would've irreversibly changed Molokai forever.

But now they are considering parceling out the land in smaller plots for individual sale. Do you think this will provide better results?

[Konaguy]

But now they are considering parceling out the land in smaller plots for individual sale. Do you think this will provide better results?

I think MPL has been doing that for awhile. It is why they were cash positive (http://starbulletin.com/2008/03/26/business/story01.html) last fiscal year by doing these individual land sales. Which I feel
will bring better results. Especially if the residents can buy some of the parcels.

[joshuatree]

I think MPL has been doing that for awhile. It is why they were cash positive (http://starbulletin.com/2008/03/26/business/story01.html) last fiscal year by doing these individual land sales. Which I feel
will bring better results. Especially if the residents can buy some of the parcels.

"Cash positive" didn't necessarily mean MR was profitable. The parent company was cash positive. A quote from your link.

University of Hawaii accounting professor Roger Debreceny said the term "cash positive" suggests cash flows from operating activities, but added that the term is not formally defined in corporate accounting.

I think the current development is a sad backfire of whatever the objectives were. Because if you divvy up the land into individual parcels, whoever owns it will develop some of it at the very least. So now you got development all over instead of 20000+ acres set aside.

[timkona]

Josh makes the killing point in this little spectacle.

Dividing the land up into 100 acre parcels will result in even MORE "McMansions" being built, with even less control given to the activists. And it is very unlikely that any unemployed Molokai residents will be able to afford 100 acres. It is ludicrous, to the point of cruelty, to "hope" that a resident of Molokai will be able to afford that much land. On top of that, you can be certain that the public trust and conservation lands will not happen.

To an activist minded person, all three points are viewed as a victory. Hooray !

[Konaguy]

http://starbulletin.com/2008/04/06/news/story06.html

Meanwhile, the group Ho'i I Ka Pono, led by the Molokai Community Service Council, said it is trying to raise up to $200 million to try and buy the ranch land.

Karen Holt, executive director of the council, said her group has received a $50 million commitment from alternative energy company UPC Wind and also has received other contributions.

"There are a lot of people trying to figure out a way to help Molokai," Holt said.

"We're not waiting for someone to rescue us. We're trying to rescue ourselves."

[timkona]

Too funny. "trying to rescue 'ourselves'. ".......From a jam we created 'ourselves'. $200 million sounds low. And what about those windmills killing birds and making noise. Activists won't go for that. Neither will the HECO protective Dem legislature. Obstructionism is its' own reward.

What's funny is that IF the residents raise enough money, then the land will never be utilized due to the fact that infighting in the controlling group will lead to intransigence. So then folks still won't have jobs, and the land will lie fallow as it has for years. I betcha MRP won't sell to them either. Just more wishful thinking coming from the left side. :cool:

[Random]

Too funny. "trying to rescue 'ourselves'. ".......From a jam we created 'ourselves'. $200 million sounds low. And what about those windmills killing birds and making noise. Activists won't go for that.
Where'd you hear about Walter Ritte opposing a wind farm?

[Konaguy]

Too funny. "trying to rescue 'ourselves'. ".......From a jam we created 'ourselves'. $200 million sounds low. And what about those windmills killing birds and making noise. Activists won't go for that. Neither will the HECO protective Dem legislature. Obstructionism is its' own reward.


News flash Tim, building up to 200 McMansions there is not something that will be sustainable over the long term. With higher gasoline prices and peak oil, it will make projects like these unfeasible.

The writing is on the wall. You can choose to stick your head in the sand or accept the fact that Hawaii will need to diversify its economic base from real estate, construction, the military and tourism. In short, paving over paradise is not acceptable option over the long term.

[timkona]

Wasnt talking about Mr. Ritte opposing wind farms. But wind power has been protested before in many places, often by the very same folks who consider themselves environmentalists. Cognitive Dissonance.

Today on the news I saw the palm trees being cut down at the golf course. Or something like that.

This whole thread is about the erosion of private property rights. Many folks on the left side of the coin just don't like the notion of private property or property rights.

No law against cutting down trees on your property, is there?

[Konaguy]

I could buy the argument that private property was being infringed upon with Judge Ibarra's Hokulia decision. Oceanside had the entitlements in place and sold 190 lots already. That was a case book example of private property being stolen

But I have sell the argument that the latter applies to the Molokai Ranch debacle.Molokai Ranch did not have entitlements to build anything at La'au. So legally nothing was taken. The process worked as it supposed to have. The community at large spoke out against developing La'au- case closed.

[joshuatree]

Molokai Ranch did not have entitlements to build anything at La'au

Don't they own La'au? :confused:

[Keanu]

Don't they own La'au? :confused:

Molokai Ranch was still at the mercy of the state Land Use Commision. Jt, you know that owning property doesn't necessarily mean you can do whatever you want with it.

[joshuatree]

Molokai Ranch was still at the mercy of the state Land Use Commision. Jt, you know that owning property doesn't necessarily mean you can do whatever you want with it.

Yes, but it falls back on a point TimKona made.

This whole thread is about the erosion of private property rights. Many folks on the left side of the coin just don't like the notion of private property or property rights.

[Miulang]

The plans for La'au are not dead. Guoco still is hoping that economic pressure on the community will cause the activists to capitulate. When/if they do and the development of La'au starts, that's when Molokai Ranch will open up the town of Maunaloa again. West End residents are being held captive by a petulant and vengeful absentee landlord who has no intention of selling any of its assets on Molokai no matter what price is offered.

At the same time, Guoco is a multibillion dollar organization and the Molokai Ranch property is just a drop in the bucket for them in their portfolio. So if it has to lay fallow for 10-15 years, so be it. They know the price of land will never go down.

[Keanu]

Yes, but it falls back on a point TimKona made.

This whole thread is about the erosion of private property rights. Many folks on the left side of the coin just don't like the notion of private property or property rights.


There was no erosion of property rights here. Molokai Ranch withdrew their EIS for the develpment on their own and failed to submit a revised EIS.

There will always be a difference of philosophy between those like Tim, who view land as something to exploit for profit, and those like Walter Ritte, who view the land as a means of sustainability. When sustainabilty trumps profit, it's a good thing.

[Keanu]

The plans for La'au are not dead. Guoco still is hoping that economic pressure on the community will cause the activists to capitulate.

These "activists" will never capitulate. :)

[Leo Lakio]

...and down come the coconut trees: http://www.kitv.com/video/15852533/index.html

[GeckoGeek]

...and down come the coconut trees: http://www.kitv.com/video/15852533/index.html

Oh, that KITV site sucks. Two ads just to see a clip that blasted me out with the volume.

- falling coconuts
- solving the problem cheaply

[Leo Lakio]

Oh, that KITV site sucks.No argument there. I "borrowed" the link from another board; I should have added a warning about the two ads, sorry.

[timkona]

I am exceptional at exploiting land. For instance, I grow 3 varieties of avocado, lotsa papaya, 2 kinds of banana, oranges, tangerines, mango, red & green ti (for the halau), in addition to orchids, anthuriums, gardenia, mini-roses, and a full seasonal vegetable garden. Oh and dont forget all the other stuff that I cant remember right now.

All on a half acre.

What was your question? :cool:

(You kinda creepin me out.)

[Keanu]

I am exceptional at exploiting land. For instance, I grow 3 varieties of avocado, lotsa papaya, 2 kinds of banana, oranges, tangerines, mango, red & green ti (for the halau), in addition to orchids, anthuriums, gardenia, mini-roses, and a full seasonal vegetable garden. Oh and dont forget all the other stuff that I cant remember right now.

All on a half acre.

What was your question? :cool:

(You kinda creepin me out.)

Did you dedicate your lot to Ag, Tim?

[Pretender]

More news here (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/BREAKING03/80414048)

Molokai Ranch gives 1,600 acres to land trust

Advertiser Staff

A 2-year-old nonprofit group has signed an agreement to acquire 1,600 acres of rugged Moloka'i coastal property from Molokai Ranch at no cost.
The binding deal between ranch parent company Molokai Properties Ltd. and the Molokai Land Trust is subject to due diligence, but is expected to result in gifting the land to the nonprofit trust for preservation.
The land covers five miles along Moloka'i's north shore, and includes rocky cliffs, an extensive tidal pool system, fishing shrines and ancient adze quarry. Known as the Mokio parcel, the area between 'Ilio Point and Mo'omomi is regarded by Molokai Enterprise Community as the most environmentally significant land owned by Molokai Ranch, and also includes bird nesting sites and an acre of the endangered endemic Hawaiian 'ihi'ihi lauakea plant that is estimated to be the largest concentration in the state.
Molokai Land Trust plans to create a land management plan for the site that will include community access and monitoring of natural and cultural resources.

[Miulang]

More news here (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/BREAKING03/80414048)
Someone pointed out that this parcel of land may be the same piece that the UPC wants to use for its windfarms and that it was willing to fork over $50 million to the land trust to purchase from Molokai Ranch. If this is true, then Guoco is really playing dirty pool. If the land trust accepts this parcel, then more than likely UPC's offer of $50 million goes away, leaving the Land Trust with very little cash in the bank to try to purchase more acreage.

It may be seen by some people as a slight concession to Molokai for Guoco to give up 1600 of land worthless to development in the first place (but which is environmentally and culturally sensitive), but it also throws a monkeywrench in the plans of the Land Trust to stop La'au from becoming the part time home of 200 multimillionaires.

[Miulang]

According to this post in the Molokai Advertiser, not only did the Ranch cut down perfectly good coconut trees that ringed Kaluakoi Golf Course to use as barricades to keep people out, but they also took to the landfill barely used or new items like bedding and towels left over from their hotel operations.

"There seems to be a pattern...The Ranch has a need and they fail to consider alternatives, as with their Master plan, as with their decision to "mothball". Instead, they make choices regardless of how others feel. True, private land owners have rights, but on Molokai, we have a special ethical code we live by, that makes Molokai unique, and allows aloha to flourish. There were other options, the people, plain, simple folks, volunteered to bring alternative barricade materials, I know people who would have come and transplanted the plants/trees and given them good homes. It took James Millar and his staff a lot of hard work and water to make that golf course come alive again. So sad to see it ruined, no matter what the motive or intention. It seems wasteful, just like all the stuff theyre throwing away at the dump - brand new things, still packaged! Blankets, dishes, furniture, etc. People have suggested making donations to Salvation Army, MOC, or allowing the staff to take stuff home, or even piling it each day at the Maunaloa park so residents can help themselves and make use at least. No, instead, they prefer to fill our landfill with their "rubbish" that still has a lot of use left. Theyʻd rather see it at the dump, than allow the people of this island to squeeze any blessings out of them. But, thats their right. They can do whatever they like. So beware the next time you hear them say the have the communityʻs best interest at heart, that they listen, that they consider what is best for everyone, that they care. Just be aware..."

[LikaNui]

SHAME on them for not donating those things to a charity! :mad:

And here are five words you never thought I'd ever say: Thanks for posting that, Miulang.
:p

[timkona]

What does it mean...."dedicate your land to ag" >>>?

Hard not to in Hawaii where everything grows effortlessly.

[Keanu]

What does it mean...."dedicate your land to ag" >>>?

Hard not to in Hawaii where everything grows effortlessly.


Farmers are given discounted real property tax rates if their lands are dedicated to farming. If landowners dedicated their lands for one year, they would only be billed 10 percent of the real property tax, 5 percent for 5 years, and 1 percent for 10 years.

With many of the "Gentleman Estate" lots on Oahu, scoundrels are receiving the RPT discount by growing just two papaya trees etc. on their lots. ;)

[timkona]

And the hits just keep on coming. Just heard on the news that Molokai Ranch is gonna shut down the water and sewage services that they have provided AT A LOSS for years. Bwahahahahahahah......crackin up laughin.

[joshuatree]

And the hits just keep on coming. Just heard on the news that Molokai Ranch is gonna shut down the water and sewage services that they have provided AT A LOSS for years. Bwahahahahahahah......crackin up laughin.

I don't get it, why is the county incapable of taking over the operations? Last time I check, Honolulu's board of water supply is run at the city/county level? :confused:

[Ron Whitfield]

If Lingle doesn't step in and do something drastic, she will have the devestaion of Molokai residents as her legacy.

[timkona]

Why is it Lingle's fault? She was not in charge when the Ranch created the water and sewage system with no fail safe long term financing plan. She had nothing to do with Walter Ritte's retarded group of misfits angering MRP to the point of throwing in the towel.

And remember most of all....this is what the folks of Molokai WANT. The people have spoken. They want no jobs. They want to get their water from a spring, like in the old days. And they want to poop in the bushes, or the ocean, whichever is most convenient. You must be respectful of what a person really wants, and let them have it.

[Ron Whitfield]

I didn't say it was her fault, but it's happening on her watch and if she lay's back and let's it get worse it'll be on her resume.

I doubt the rest of your comment is true for most of the residents.

[timkona]

Now wait a minute Ron......I'm confused.

Do you mean to say that a minority of people can cause something to happen that would adversely affect the majority......???? And all this time I thought we lived in a Democracy, run by the majority.

There is no question that special interest, activist-minded, protest-oriented, small groups of people are totally wrecking Hawaii, from downtown Honolulu to the dusty west end of Molokai, and all points in between. They have no concern whatsoever for the eventual reality of the outcomes they strive for. You could almost call it "malicious", but for the fact that its' roots lie in ignorance. And ignorance to that degree deserves sympathy.

[Ron Whitfield]

I'll defer to your knowledge of experiences, as I havn't even been on Molokai for decades. I'd hate to think it's true tho.

[Random]

I didn't say it was her fault, but it's happening on her watch and if she lay's back and let's it get worse it'll be on her resume.
Maybe ... if she's still the Mayor of Maui County.

She'll only step in if Maui County ... :rolleyes: ... can't find a solution for Moloka'i or formally request State help.

From my Moloka'i resident's eyes, I want to see what the daughter of Hannibal Tavares is going to do. :rolleyes:

[Random]

And remember most of all....this is what the folks of Molokai WANT. The people have spoken. They want no jobs. They want to get their water from a spring, like in the old days. And they want to poop in the bushes, or the ocean, whichever is most convenient. You must be respectful of what a person really wants, and let them have it.I see you have mastered the art of venomous sarcasm.

[timkona]

The mental tenor of sarcasm is often too high for understanding by those toward which it is directed. I think Dennis Miller has this problem all the time.

The lunacy of the situation on Molokai, including both the activists AND the MRP, is just too juicy to avoid caustic satire. It is a fine line between what can be called sad, and deserve sympathy, and what can be called crazy, and deserves ridicule. Some issues even deserve both.

[Leo Lakio]

The mental tenor of sarcasm is often too high for understanding by those toward which it is directed.It's also tough to perceive in the written postings of a forum - and use of a "rolleyes" emoticon spoils the point. But those of us who have read, discussed and sparred with your posts, Tim, have learned to recognize it from you - sometimes. Don't ever change, brah.

[joshuatree]

Apparently the public commission has ordered MK to continue operation of the utilities. Is that even legit? Who owns the utility at this point? If it's MK, isn't it considered private property? And the stipulation is till they find someone else to take over. Who wants to do that? I don't think it's profitable so that pretty much nixes the private sector.

What I want to know is, what happened to the enviro groups that said they were trying to line an alternative up for Molokai? Any updates on that?

[Konaguy]

From Ian Lind (http://ilind.net/2008/06/06/fridaymolokai-water-woes-superferry-rental-cars-dan-wallace-and-fridays-felines/):

"Molokai Ranch is the successor to the original developer of the Kaluakoi Resort and related West End developments, and inherited the contractual relationships and responsibilities that went with those developments. These include the responsibility to provide water and sewer service. Attorneys representing at least some of the area’s condominium owners, for example, have been preparing to take legal action to enforce those legal provisions."

[Konaguy]

There is no question that special interest, activist-minded, protest-oriented, small groups of people are totally wrecking Hawaii, from downtown Honolulu to the dusty west end of Molokai, and all points in between. They have no concern whatsoever for the eventual reality of the outcomes they strive for. You could almost call it "malicious", but for the fact that its' roots lie in ignorance. And ignorance to that degree deserves sympathy.

Tim, there is always a flip side to everything. It could be argued that developers and their politicians in their pockets are doing exactly the same thing to Hawaii. All I do know is we cannot keep on paving over paradise for the mighty dollar. On top of that, our current economic base is unsustainable. Depending on tourists to spend, developers willing to invest, and the military willing spread the pork, the future of Hawaii is very bleak.