Doing a Nice Thing for a Not-Nice Reason

[scrivener]

I feel a little weird discussing this here for some reason, but it's been bugging me, so I guess I'll ask the HT masses for an opinion.

Okay, I do this really weird thing. When I'm using a unisex bathroom, such as at a cafe or at a friend's house, I wipe the rim of the bowl when I'm finished peeing. I'll wad up a bunch of toilet paper and do a quick (not psychotic) wipe, and if there are droplets on the floor in front of the bowl, I'll wipe those up, too, even though those droplets are never mine, thank you very much.

I think this is a good thing. I don't think a woman should have to deal with that nastiness when there are so many other nastinesses brought about by men. It's sort of a do-unto-others thing, even though my real motivation is that I cannot stand the thought of some woman using the restroom after me and thinking whatever's there is MINE. I shudder at the thought of being considered a pig by the woman who sees me exiting the restroom, even when I don't know that there's actually a woman waiting to use the restroom.

What I am trying to say is that I do this pretty-good thing only because I'm worried that if I don't, people will think ill of me. If I could be totally sure that nobody would ever think the mess in there is mine, I don't think I'd worry about it, unless it were someone I knew, because I haaaaaaate public restrooms and would rather just get OUT of there as quickly as possible.

A courtesy like wiping the bowl is a small courtesy of very little importance, but a selfish, vain heart is quite vile.

So respond to the poll. Is this admirable, is it reprehensible, is it somewhere in the middle, or do the actions and motivations essentially cancel each other out?

[tutusue]

I think there's something within universal laws that states one should "give" unconditionally. (I'm too lazy right now to do a search!) Still...to my tutu way of thinking...any act of kindness is worthy. I wouldn't say your reason is "not-nice", Scriv. Rather, I'd say it's a bit conditional and that's not always a bad thing. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to give me change! ;)

[lavagal]

At work there was a toilet that wasn't flushed. IT was as though women had tried, but didn't succeed. So women would go in, say EWWwww and go to another stall. So I figured, what's the deal, checked it out and pushed the button because the photo sensor wasn't "reading" correctly. Fixed it with a few flushes. I don't feel right for leaving anything behind, so I'm guilty of multiple flushing. I, too, wipe the seat, but hope that there are liners available! I don't do it for me, I don't know who I do it for, but I do it to leave a spot cleaner than when I got it.

Another thing I do is walk along with seniors or moms with little kids when we're crossing the street. I find that I do that a lot over on Keeaumoku near my offices. I just don't want them to feel alone or vulnerable. All I do is smile, or wave my hand to let them know I'm with them, then I move on.

I don't do these things for me, but I will admit that I enjoy a little fun vibe for having done them. You know that insurance commercial where someone does something nice for somebody else and an anonymous witness sees it and then tries something like that for themselves? I'd like to think that those of us who do these little things relay how easy it is to make someone else's day, and that whoever sees it tries it themselves.

[LikaNui]

Hey Scriv, you can avoid having to do that very easily -- sit down, instead of standing! :p

(Is that a whole lot of females I hear applauding?)

[MyopicJoe]

I like the philosophy of Enlightened Self-Interest:

EVERYTHING we do is selfish. If you do something "selfless" it's because it makes you feel better (for instance we internalize our parents' voice, constantly feeling their approval / disapproval).

There's nothing inherently wrong with being selfish. It's good to benefit from your actions. The question is do your actions benefit others? Do your actions at the very least do no harm to others?

[SusieMisajon]

Tell me some of the other things that you do...

[SusieMisajon]

Actually, I wouldn't worry about it...all of us do things so that we'll be liked/accepted by others. Like wear clean underwear 'just in case you get hit by a car and have to go to the hospital'.

It takes a whole lot of living before you can learn to either not give a darn or to enjoy the joke.

[WindwardOahuRN]

When I'm walking my dog I'll clean up anonymous poop if my dog hangs around the poop long enough to look like she might have left it there.
And yes, I do it for the same reason Scrivener wipes the seat. I don't want anyone to think that I didn't clean up my own mess.
Addendum: Well I guess I do it because it really is the right thing to do, too. But if I was really concerned about doing the right thing I would run around cleaning up all the poop I could find, maybe. Maybe not. Would I clean up her poop if I was in the middle of the desert and no one would ever attribute the poop to me or mine? Probably not. Then again I might.
So what does it all mean?
I think I am having a Jack Handey moment....

http://www.deepthoughtsbyjackhandey.com/

[Peshkwe]

Aren't most good deeds ultimately done for the self in ennyways?

The good deed doer ends up feeling good for them self no matter how it's handled, altruism, shame avoidance or attention seeking.....as long as the act results in no pain for someone down the line, it's goodies for the soul all the way 'round. *shrugs* What the impetus is makes no never mind in the grand scheme of giving or recieving spirit prezzies.

[Nords]

It sounds as if you're asking if it's worth doing a good deed for the karma, even if the only payoff is "avoiding pain". That would be a "yes". And if there's a more concrete payoff, then still yes-- progress, not perfection.

Another perspective (for those in search of a non-scatological example) would be picking up litter.

Cleaning to raise the standards and set a good example for others-- sure. If everyone was inspired (or shamed) into following the example then there'd be nothing left to clean up.

Cleaning the bathroom because you want to impress the hot chick who's next in line-- well, this is probably how the human race propagated so quickly. Certainly understandable if not so altruistic.

Cleaning every bathroom in the house, or every stall in a public bathroom, or picking up every piece of litter you see along the road-- well, now we're into Mother Theresa territory... but you'd certainly get invited to a lot of parties.

[Leo Lakio]

Scrivener, imagine if the alternative were not to do any good deeds at all, simply because you might have some small kernel of "selfishness" attached - this world would be a much sadder place. Keep in mind that (at least in the case you cited to begin this discussion), much of the selfishness is self-perceived, and thus you are not judged on it by any other human being.

Note to MyopicJoe: the more I read your posts, the more I enjoy your p.o.v.; thank you for contributing - you bring a welcome calmness and thoughtfulness to this here crazy place. (Not saying others don't as well, mind you - but I just wanted to give you a pat on the back.)

[MyopicJoe]

I enjoy your p.o.v.

Thanks, Leo.

Peshkwe has a similar view, and I sense something similar in the posts of others. They just have different words for it, which is a good thing.


( btw Leo, your check is in the mail ;) )

[salmoned]

I've never, ever considered what someone else might think of me - they all have/are a**holes, just like me, why would anyone care about a stranger's myriad self-delusions? Also, why do you think what you're doing is nice or admirable? You do what you do, there's no reason to qualify it - if it has merit or not, let it stand on it's own, brother! No need talk about it. ;)

P.S. - when I soberly use public facilities, shared or single sex, I tidy before and after, following the principle of leaving as good or better than finding - and I don't believe it matters in the least.

[Pomai]

The second-to-the-last poll option is too funny. lol

Funny you bring this up, Scriv'. I'll do what you're talking about only when the restroom is tidy to begin with. Mainly, to keep it in the same spartan condition that I was presented with upon entering. Nothing to do with karma or impressing the next hot chick, or folks at home for that matter.

If it's a dump (no pun intended), I won't even go near touching anything if I can help it, except to flush....

I just wonder why it's so difficult to FLUSH? Even urinals need to be flushed, but lots of fellaz don't make that simple effort. FLUSH the damned toilet! Thank goodness for those new motion-detection sensor flush devices. ;)

There was a comic I heard say somewhere (I forget), that if it's rude and selfish for men to leave the toilet seat up in a unisex bathroom (like home), in counterpoint, why isn't it rude when women leave the toilet seat down? :p

[WindwardOahuRN]

There was a comic I heard say somewhere, I forget, that it's rude and selfish for men to leave the toilet seat up in a unisex bathroom (like home). He then went on to say that in counterpoint, well then, isn't it rude if women leave the toilet seat down? :p

Females employ the seat-down stuff 100% of the time.

The percentage of seat-down usage by males varies. The variable factors influencing toilet seat positioning include irritable bowel syndrome, ulcerative cholitis, colonoscopy preps, Montezuma's revenge, personal preference, bashful bladder syndrome, and alcohol consumption.

The odds are that the seat-down position needs will statistically beat the seat-up position needs so, in the interest of common courtesy, the seat should be left DOWN. No, you don't have to do it. It would just be nice if you did, statistically speaking.

We leave the seat and the cover down because we think that the sound of dogs drinking out of the toilet is just gross. Yucky poo poo.

[Nani]

i know a girl who borowed her friend money to buy a car. The girl who borrowed the money to her is very well off, then the girl who bought the car got pregnant and had a baby so she didnt have the money to pay her right away. So the other trend started talking smack about her to everyone she knew, bragging about what she did and how she is sucha great friend and how the other girl is such a biagch. IMHO I dont think she should have done it at all cuz now I'm getting sick of her gossiping about it every time we talk! it depends on the degree of the act and how selfish it was

[cezanne]

Is this admirable, is it reprehensible, is it somewhere in the middle, or do the actions and motivations essentially cancel each other out?

I think they cancel each other out, so might as well just do it. Short of putting that triangle fold on the TP, I try to leave a uni-sex or private bathroom a little cleaner than when I first used it. I'm also a seat and cover putter downer regardless if I was standing or sitting.:)

[tutusue]

i know a girl who borowed her friend money to buy a car. The girl who borrowed the money to her is very well off, then the girl who bought the car got pregnant and had a baby so she didnt have the money to pay her right away.[...]
Did the "friend" enter into a written contract for the loan (to also include interest) and have the loan secured by having herself listed on the title as the legal owner? If not, she's just as much at fault for lending the money as the borrower is for defaulting. If so, she can repossess the car and sell it.

[Kaukura]

I don't think a woman should have to deal with that nastiness when there are so many other nastinesses brought about by men. It's sort of a do-unto-others thing, even though my real motivation is that I cannot stand the thought of some woman using the restroom after me and thinking whatever's there is MINE.

I think this is a common courtesy no matter your gender. BTW, I read a LOT of message boards and work in an office of 85% women. The stories I hear about womens bathrooms surprises (shocks?) me at times. I dont' think men are necessarily filthier than women. I'm also always reading about women "hovering" and not cleaning.. lol

[MyopicJoe]

I'm also always reading about women "hovering" and not cleaning.. lol

I have this vague feeling I read a local story, while in college, about a girl who learned to go standing up.

[Nani]

my friends name is nikki and her friend that she borrowed to has the same ne so its kinda hard to explain it with names, but yeah my friend did sign a contract with her, no intrest though and she is not on the title, like I was trying to say before, its like the only reason she did it was to brag about it. She did this like last year I think and right after she did it she called me up to brag to me about how good of a friend she is to borrow her other friend the money. Then went in to say that she won't even get it back cuz the other girl will make up ecxuses not to pay her. U might wonderwhy in her friend then, but its cuz our parents were friends in highschool together and like best friends

[turtlegirl]

OK, toilet things aside,

I just bought my sweetie an awesome surfboard, practically new, and just plain awesome.

Why?

Because I really like the one that he bought, and I was hoping to trade him this cool new one for the beater board that he has, that I really like. I REALLY LIKE his board!! I even named it! I want it for my own!

[MyopicJoe]

Because I really like the one that he bought, and I was hoping to trade him this cool new one for the beater board that he has, that I really like. I REALLY LIKE his board!! I even named it! I want it for my own!

LOL

So eeeeevil :D