Help me protect my girls' self esteem

[MyopicJoe]

"She's fat."
"Yeah."
"She's skinny."
"Yeah."


This is the conversation I overheard between four preschool girls, as they observed their classmates on the playground. I didn't realize how young it starts, but keiki pay a lot of attention to the world around them. I suppose it's a survival trait, but I want my girls to survive childhood with their self esteem intact. I hope you can help me with some suggestions.

One thing I want to do is to show my daughters how artifical those images of ideal women are. They need to see the huge production that goes into crafting the perfect faces which haunt them from magazine covers. The casual wind-blown hair isn't that casual, and I've been searching for things which demonstrate that.


This link is interactive, but you need to wait a minute for "Click Here!" button to show on the right hand side:

http://demo.fb.se/e/girlpower/retouch/retouch/index.html


I found a digital artist's portfolio to also be a good source of examples:

http://homepage.mac.com/gapodaca/digital/bikini/bikini1.html
http://homepage.mac.com/gapodaca/digital/blonde/blonde1.html


Here's a professional makeup school which likes to brag about the "magic" it performs:

http://www.ybmakeup.com/gallery.php?cat=gallery_bnf


I once saw this online documentary where they brought in school girls to observe digital artists manipulating photos. The girls had their pictures taken and witnessed their bodies being made more sexier. One of the girls broke down crying. I really wish I could find the link again, but it was years ago. By chance do any of you have a link to that one?

Makeup. Special lighting. Color "correction". Dozens of rolls of film spent just to capture one "perfect" photo, and then airbrushing the photo to make it "more perfect". Those are the things I want to show my girls. There's a war out there for their minds, and I want them to see the enemy's playbook.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated. I still have a few years before it becomes a serious issue. I'd like to nip this one in the bud.


Regards,
MJ


P.S. I just found this article:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/135166

Redbook editor in chief Stacy Morrison defended the changes, telling the "Today" show, "In the end, they're not really photographs. They're images."

[LonLeroux]

Speaking as someone who has lived with anorexia, I hope I can help you.
Now, before I go any further, I want to say that I'm not ashamed to admit it. It's all in the past and I'm certainly not the only person who has ever lived with an eating disorder. So please, no flames. You can't make me feel bad about what happened.

One of the most important things you can do for your girls (and boys, it happens to them, too) is to let them know just how much they are loved. Many times, it's not simple vanity that leads to E.D. It's usually self-esteem issues that are the culprit.
I remember feeling not good enough when I chose to stop eating. I felt imperfect and unloved. I felt that if I were beautiful, people would love me and I wouldn't be so alone.
It was also a form of control for me. It was the only thing I had control over in my entire life, actually. Everything else was controlled by an abusive boyfriend. Looking back, I think it was also a form of passive suicide.

So, I wanted to die, I wanted control over myself, I wanted to be loved, and I wanted to be beautiful.

What did I equate beauty and perfection with? Being thin, of course.
Yes, the media will always have a slice of blame in this. All a girl has to do is switch on the T.V. and there's some wispy beauty flaunting her perfection, false as it may be.

Looking back on it, I can't believe I thought that I was fat. I was a perfectly svelte 118 lbs. before I started, but I couldn't really see it back then. I didn't see myself as obese, but rather, I was not thin enough.
I remember always telling myself "just five more pounds" and when the five pounds were gone, it started all over again.
I wound up getting down to 84 lbs. before I got help and I still haven't fully recovered from my E.D.
I'm telling you, it's destructive. It's not something glamorous, cute, or trivial. It will tear them apart.

If you want to protect your girls, you should disillusion them about the magic of these women in magazines. But, you should also talk to them about the dangers of these things. You should let them know that they are beautiful and wonderful just the way they are.
But above all, you must let them know just how much you love them!
I can't stress that enough.

If they do show signs of an eating disorder, then you have to step in right away. The sooner, the better.

[SusieMisajon]

Teach them to beware of false friends and fashions. Teach them to not give a hoot about what others think.

[Mike_Lowery]

get rid of the TV

[MyopicJoe]

Found another interesting article (http://jezebel.com/gossip/photoshop-of-horrors/heres-our-winner-redbook-shatters-our-faith-in-well-not-publishing-but-maybe-god-278919.php).



I think it was also a form of passive suicide.

"By tiny, tiny increments." -- Rob, High Fidelity

Thanks for sharing a dark time in your life, Lon. I'm glad you survived it. If it happens to my daughters, I hope I'll catch it early.



Teach them to not give a hoot about what others think.

So true, Susie, but so hard to do. We're such social creatures. I hope I can teach my girls that the only opinions that matter are from people who have earned their respect. Elizabeth Hurley makes me a sad panda:

As actress and bikini model Elizabeth Hurley (http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Elizabeth+Hurley) told a British newspaper recently, she so loves being airbrushed to look "thinner" and "younger" that she's taken to Photoshopping her own holiday photos.



get rid of the TV

But Mike, the TV is such a convenient baby sitter!

Besides, how can my girls find their true loves if they can't gossip about the latest episode of The Office, Grey's Anatomy, House, or BSG?

"I agreed that what really matters is what you like, not what you are like... Books, records, films -- these things matter. Call me shallow but it's the f*ckin' truth, and by this measure I was having one of the best dates of my life." -- Rob, High Fidelity

[kstephen]

this ended up long, please bear with me....

MyopicJoe, you have have given such helpful, insightful comments (to me and others).

We, each parent, can only do our best at making the best choices for our kids.

i will share with you what my husband (who is headed for Kauai aug. 2008) and i decided to do when considering raising our children (ages 8, 10, 19 & 21).

first, we chose where we wanted to raise kids. we saved up and bought a home with a yard in a small city (pop. approx. 12000) instead of in the taupe suburbs of kansas city (close to where we work). This was an expensive choice.

we decided no TV from the day we moved in (we could only get 2 channels anyway) and we wanted to raise our kids without TV for the first 5 years or so. well its been 10+ years with no TV and i am so thankful. everyday i see a reason or example that just supports our choice of no (broadcast) TV. we do DVDs, tho...& most DVDs we rent are ones the kids wouldnt be allowed to watch anyway (we watch when they are asleep). NOTE: this was not the easy choice.

we chose to home school. when we adopted our teenage daughters from ecuador in 2002 & 2005 (each was 15 y.o. when adopted) we home schooled them as they didnt speak english and were behind in school anyway. (yes, we speak spanish in our home. no we are not latino/hispanic....i am a college spanish professor.) so, when our younger biological children neared school-age, we home schooled them too. again, a choice we are very happy with (now for 5 years).

we choose what media/info comes into our homes. What we, the parents, choose to read, listen to (radio) and/or watch (internet/DVD) is an example for our kids. they get a variety of magazines from the Cricket magazines (http://www.cricketmag.com/home.asp) for the kids, (grandparents give us their old National Geographic, Smithsonian, Archeology, Auduban, etc. )

we choose limit "screen time" (DVD/computer). the younger kids, ages 8 & 10, maybe get 15-30 min. of screen time a day. BTW, my husband is a computer/graphic artist and it was his research that lead us to limit computer time until approx. 8-10 y.o.

and for those that worry about the kids *socialization*, they are very active in suzuki violin and piano lessons, which includes private, group, and theory classes. we are also very much involved in cub/girl scouts. my kids also know their neighbors and play with friends that live on our block. we also have a 18' x 9' play structure pirate ship (http://web.mac.com/phemmerla/iWeb/Site/Dread_Pirates.html) my husband built for the kids (did i mention he's an artist - sculpture, ceramics, photography, etc.).

but the most important choice we make (as LonLeroux said) is to tell the kids several times a day that we love them. (my 8 y.o. just read this over my shoulder as i am typing and commented, "thats true").

I feel like I’m not only up against those images of false media body images, but up against many things from our culture that can be limiting. Many decisions my husband and I make are counter to what our (small town, Midwest/USA) culture. we try to show our kids images from art (in museums and on line) to give them a variety of perspectives of culture throughout history. we talk about body images, women’s accomplishments and cultural issues.
BTW, our 10 y.o. boy has long hair that he can sit on, and he is NOT circumcised (which I has to explain to anyone who might have changed his diaper when he was little, “don’t pull the foreskin back, please.” Of course our no TV for 10+ years has gotten quite a few comments, some good, but many are…well, what do you do then?

We can only do our best at making the best choices for our kids. “we” choose to raise our kids and not let the schools, the TV, etc. raise our kids. We talk with them about what they see before or during the experience, not just as a reaction afterwards.

I ramble….., I just hope I made sense.

[SusieMisajon]

It's true about the 'not keeping up with the Jonses' takes years to develop, and takes either confidence or snarkiness or hard knocks or being slighty lolo (I'm not sure which one I am)...but it's never too early to begin to learn about it.

[Leo Lakio]

Listen closely to what your daughters say, at all times. That will give you your best clues as to when you can make the points you want to make most effectively. Their comments will clue you in to the best openings for discussion.

You might all be watching TV at some point, and see some celebrity gossip piece, to which one of your daughters might say something like, "I don't see why everybody thinks she's so pretty - I think she's too fat." Voila - you have just been given an opening to discuss body issues and popular images, and you don't have to come across as preachy.

Our children are good at letting us know when they are ready for and open to heavier levels of discussion; we parents aren't always so good at spotting those rare chances.

[SusieMisajon]

Look into the mirror and ask yourself why this bothers you and what, if anything, your own attitude towards your body or other bodies has to do with the feeling you have.

[lavagal]

My 8-year-old daugther is thin, and has a high metabolism. My 6-year-old daughter is a wee bit zaftig, but not fat. They wear the same size clothing, sizes 7-8. I have to be very delicate with Kid 2's feelings. She doesn't see herself as fat, she doesn't see herself as inferior, but every once in a while she says things like "I do everything wrong!" or "I am such a dope!" And honestly, no one ever says these things to her. But I say them. So I have to be careful about the program that is running in my mind. I have to change how I see myself. It's so challenging to be a parent.

At the moment we are dealing with Kid 1 engaging with some really awful little girls at swim team. They are between the ages of 8 and 10. When we get her after swim team practice, Kid 1 is an unbearable monster. We have put swim team on hiatus for the summer. I hope when it resumes, Kid 1 can have some independence and detatchment from the cruel, mean girls. It affects how Kid 1 treats Kid 2, and Kid 1 can get quite sassy with her parents. Yesterday she was treated to a 16-minute "stand-up, no leaning against the wall" time out. One or two more of those should cure talk-back triggers!

Why do we do it? Because we love them so. I've assured both girls that I am happy to embarrass them in public anytime I feel they are being reprehensible. I do not have a problem with embarrassing my kids to make them better people.

I guess this is a bit off topic, but I do think that helping secure a daughter's self esteem involves more than looks. It involves building confidence and helping them see the value in making the right decisions, too.

[turtlegirl]

Dove soap has a video called 'The Evolution of Beauty', that is very neat to check out. You can find it on Youtube, but maybe this link will work - www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XEHpyQbwM0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XEHpyQbwM0)

Some years ago I did a photo shoot for a hairstyle magazine. Waited forever for the issue to come out. When it did, my mom ran out that day and got like four copies. Then called me to say that I wasn't in it. Huh?
So I go track down the magazine, and I am in it. At least, I found the pictures of myself. Get this - the pictures were SO airbrushed that my own MOTHER didn't recognize me!! Crazy!!

I'd bet that the nationwide applause would be deafening should airbrushing just go away.

[tutusue]

My youngest spawn (now almost 40 :eek:) was 13 years old, gangly, gawky, pimply faced, you name it. One day near the end of the school year I walked past the bathroom and saw her checking herself out in the mirror. Not wanting to embarrass her I continued to walk and didn't say a thing. She shouted out to me and what she said absolutely blew me away..."Ya know what, mom? I think I looked pretty good this year."!!! I stopped to look at her and said..."I don't think you look good at all. I think you look absolutely beautiful." That was 1982 and I've never forgotten that short exchange! Priceless.

I wish I could take credit for her confidence and self-esteem but I don't think I can. YS had both from birth and a series of health challenges and operations, while it might be the undoing for other children, seemed to strengthen her spirit.

Maybe it's birth order...dunno. :confused:

[Nords]

Re: Help me protect my girls' self esteem
Martial arts, basketball, & surfing.

Oprah occasionally does an image show and has the material on her website & magazine.

Our teen enjoys picking apart the show "America's Next Top Model"... it's her guilty pleasure.

[tutusue]

[...]
Our teen enjoys picking apart the show "America's Next Top Model"... it's her guilty pleasure.
Along the same line, albeit slightly different...working with celebrities over the years, I almost never recognize them when they show up on the set, prior to going into make-up, hair and wardrobe. I've downright embarrassed myself on a couple of occasions! One, in particular, was a well known actress, also known for her beauty, who arrived with a bunch of clothes hung over her arm, no make-up, very plain. I thought she was part of the wardrobe dept. crew so that's where I sent her! :o

And working with models usually leaves me speechless. Altho' they photograph well, their bodies can look so unhealthy when you see them in person.

No names...won't go there! :D

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Martial arts, basketball, & surfing.
…



Volleyball, judo, hula, ukulele, theatre, speech team, summer programs, different summer schools (never the same campus as their regular school!), etc. Also, let them join something that YOU canNOT stand, but support them anyway, and show them respect, regardless of how begrudging it is–especially if it is begrudging on your part. (I have made it a point to nearly wail at their choices, never showing them how glad I was that they tuffed it out, but truth be told, my own kids never did join anything that I was vehemently against; I just see great value in encouraging them their independence).

Expect the highest out of them. Demand nothing less. Arrow, farther, aimed at sun, blah blah blah.

Teach your kids to argue their point. Encourage that they use their voice. Demand that they convince you their point of view. Make them negotiate you, and be judicious when they are right, or deserve a shot. Most importantly, show them how to fight, resolve, problem-solve between you the parents. Make fun of yourselves. And for goodness' sake, 99.9% of the time, let them solve their own problems in school, with bullies, with teachers. That's life.

You cannot protect their self-esteem. They must earn it for themselves.

[1stwahine]

Exacto mundo wat Tita Pua'i Mana'o said.:D

Auntie Lynn

[Lei Liko]

You cannot protect their self-esteem. They must earn it for themselves.

I don't think it's possible to say it any better than this.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

::::massive round of high-fives to her girlz::::: :D

[MyopicJoe]

*kowtow at Pua'i Mana'o's feet*

:D

Maybe a moderator can rename the thread to:

"Help me protect How can my girls earn their self esteem?"



Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to share bits of your wisdom. I'll write a full reply tonight, after work.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

That's nice to say, Joe, but not necessary.

How old are your kids?

[MyopicJoe]

early elementary. gotta start preparing for the cold "winter" of middle school :)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

when my children were in early elementary, I relied heavily on P&R activities. Really short seasons allowed for a variety of stuff to do and accomplish. Our deal was, they could try out anything they wanted or quit whatever they didn't like, but they had to finish the season (or session).

Stuff at least one kid ended up loving and Mom&Dad ended up enjoying:
• volleyball
• football
• basketball

Stuff at least one kid loved, but Mom&Dad almost hated:
• baseball
• cheerleading

Stuff Mom wanted them to love, but the kid(s) chose to quit:
• ukulele
• hula
• theatre
• judo

With the exception of cheerleading and theatre, all of my kids started anywhere from 5 yrs old – 5th grade.

I just graduated my firstborn™. Middle child is going to be a junior. The baby is on the cusp of alienhood, heading for 7th grade. Having no clue what is in store for me with that one, I know the apprehension of which you speak. All we can do is try.

Aside from all of my rhetoric above, all we can do is support our kids in those situations where they can learn to kick ass (part of that lesson is to survive getting their asses kicked). Foremost, they have to be exposed to situations in the first place. Exposure to new things. Opportunities to move out of their comfort zone.

aloha, PM

[tutusue]

Exacto mundo wat Tita Pua'i Mana'o said.:D

Auntie Lynn
I don't think it's possible to say it any better than this.
Yep! What those 2 said!!! Thanks, PM...you just explained my youngest spawn to a tee...in words that woulda continued to evade me!

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Yep! What those 2 said!!! Thanks, PM...you just explained my youngest spawn to a tee...in words that woulda continued to evade me!

One of the *best* articles I have read on the subject was in a recent issue of Figure (http://www.figuremag.com) magazine. This actress is a well-known plus sized actress Mo'nique, and she said, my whole life I was fat, but I 'm pretty because my daddy said I was the prettiest girl in the world, and that was the only message I have ever known.

Isn't that fan-freaking-tastic?

[kani-lehua]

luv monique and her beauty pageant.
luv top model.
luv the dove ladies.
luv jackie warner's show workout.
luv extreme fighting/martial arts. robbie lawler you da man. oh, wait. maybe kimbo slice is da man.

the reason i mentioned those people is because they all have different body types. i'm into if you are a good person. that's it. i don't care what you look like.

is it possible to be thin and unhealthy? unhappy? thin and healthy? thin and happy?
is it possible to be overweight and be unhealthy? unhappy? healthy? happy?
i would say from experience yes to all the above. been there done that. right now i'm at what i would call a "good weight" for my height and age (them hormones have a lot to do with it IMO). but, i did it for me and only me when i found out that i had high cholesterol and blood pressure.

i've had three relationships that were abusive. two physically. one mentally/psychologically. almost a total of 10 years with abuse. skinny wasn't good enough. don't eat that. you've had enough to eat. blah, blah, blah. i always tried to please the other person. i was trying to feel loved. yep. think it all had to do with not feeling loved by my mother. she only told me once in my 46 years that she loved me.

well, i'm over that. in 2006, i finally let her go and we have been estranged since then. i'm so much happier not worrying or wondering whether or not she loves/ed me. i'm the baby of the family, the third child. mom always played favorites with the older ones and continues to do so. other things that are earned: mother, father, sister, brother and/or family. whatever you want to call it. otherwise, those are just titles.

the parents had us doing all kinds of things when we were younger. hula, track, ukulele, guitar, etc. not sure if those things helped with the self esteem. confident? maybe. but, i do know that i'm a better dancer than my sister (kumu told me so), the only one to have graduated from college and better at sports.

being that i don't have children, i'm wondering? parents: is it truly possible to love each of your children equally? i really and truly believe that a parent's love affects a child's self esteem and confidence.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

luv monique and her beauty pageant.
luv top model.
luv the dove ladies.
luv jackie warner's show workout.
luv extreme fighting/martial arts. robbie lawler you da man. oh, wait. maybe kimbo slice is da man.

the reason i mentioned those people is because they all have different body types. i'm into if you are a good person. that's it. i don't care what you look like.

is it possible to be thin and unhealthy? unhappy? thin and healthy? thin and happy?
is it possible to be overweight and be unhealthy? unhappy? healthy? happy?
i would say from experience yes to all the above. been there done that. right now i'm at what i would call a "good weight" for my height and age (them hormones have a lot to do with it IMO). but, i did it for me and only me when i found out that i had high cholesterol and blood pressure.

i've had three relationships that were abusive. two physically. one mentally/psychologically. almost a total of 10 years with abuse. skinny wasn't good enough. don't eat that. you've had enough to eat. blah, blah, blah. i always tried to please the other person. i was trying to feel loved. yep. think it all had to do with not feeling loved by my mother. she only told me once in my 46 years that she loved me.

well, i'm over that. in 2006, i finally let her go and we have been estranged since then. i'm so much happier not worrying or wondering whether or not she loves/ed me. i'm the baby of the family, the third child. mom always played favorites with the older ones and continues to do so. other things that are earned: mother, father, sister, brother and/or family. whatever you want to call it. otherwise, those are just titles.

the parents had us doing all kinds of things when we were younger. hula, track, ukulele, guitar, etc. not sure if those things helped with the self esteem. confident? maybe. but, i do know that i'm a better dancer than my sister (kumu told me so), the only one to have graduated from college and better at sports.

being that i don't have children, i'm wondering? parents: is it truly possible to love each of your children equally? i really and truly believe that a parent's love affects a child's self esteem and confidence.

this post *breaks* my heart. To live to be 46 years on the planet and never feeling loved by your mother. :(

As to your question "is it truly possible to love each of your children equally?"

yesabsolutelyyoubetchaofcourseomgyesdowntomyverybo nesyes!

I could go on and on and on and on about each of my children's wonderful qualities. What each does that makes my eyes tear up, my belly fill with laughter, or make me wanna ground em. I make sure we each have alone™ time, and that we all bond together as a family. But then again, I say "I love you" all the time. I say it to their daddy in front of them all the time. I also make them quiver and shake and say things like "mom can be a real hard ass" and "no way would I hold my boyfriend's hand in front of my dad, are you kidding??" Have a new boyfriend? We are taking that lad to dinner…tonight… and grilling him. Dumped the last boyfriend? I *still* expect – every time – he sees me that he kisses me on the cheek and says "hi Aunty".

Nothing makes me more happy than being their mamma and they know it. I cannot envision living my life without any of them in it.

[tutusue]

[...]Isn't that fan-freaking-tastic?
It sure is. I wish I could high 5 Papa Monique!
[...]As to your question "is it truly possible to love each of your children equally?"

yesabsolutelyyoubetchaofcourseomgyesdowntomyverybo nesyes!
[...]
Yeppers! What PM said^. However, children go thru various stages at various ages, not all of 'em pleasant if ya know what I mean! I found that I didn't necessarily always like my kids equally...but I ALWAYS, without a doubt, loved them equally.

Unfortunately, what Kani-lehua experienced isn't all that rare. Removing herself from such a negative situation was a very brave, very mature and, I'm sure, a very difficult decision.

[kani-lehua]

aloha e pua'i mana'o. eia ko'u mana'o ia 'oe: believe me, it really is okay and i've moved on. without GOD, my kupuna wahine and my current realtionship, i'd be a basket case. these people and my faith have given me self esteem and confidence. i'm a very happy person and have fought many battles including the ones in my head. a little stressed with having to care for "mom" (mother-in-law) who has end stage alzheimer's. once we move to the big island (2-3 years from now) and get away from "family", it'll be even better.

my father is deceased. he died when he was 46 (the age i am now)of a massive heart attack. i most definitely was a daddy's girl hands down. i'd go to all his mountain ball games; we'd through football and he taught me how to ride a skateboard. BUT, a father's love is much different than a mother's love.

e ho mai ka 'ike, e ho mai e pua'i mana'o.

tutusue: the most difficult decision i ever made was to "let go" of my "mother" and/or "family". my heart still aches and tears can come easily. but, you're right. i needed to remove myself from, "such a negative situation." life goes on and i'm a better and happier person for having made that choice.

post script: the bulk of our estate will go to a designated animal shelter. some will go to the care of our surviving animals and the rest will go to our dearest friend/trustee. "family"=nada, zero, nil, zilch, etc....

[Leo Lakio]

parents: is it truly possible to love each of your children equally? i really and truly believe that a parent's love affects a child's self esteem and confidence.I only have one child, but I would hope that, had I more, I would also confidently answer "yes." And I agree with the second sentence as well, wholeheartedly.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

kīkē ka ʻalā, uē ka māmane.

E Kanilehua ē,

Piha kuʻu naʻau i ke aloha minamina i ia moʻolelo ʻalalā. Eia naʻe, ma ke ʻano he Hawaiʻi, hoʻomanaʻo ihola i ka pua mōhala mua i kīpohopoho ka ʻāina, ʻo ia hoʻi ka lehua. Penei nō e lapaʻau ai ka ʻāina.

{{{pūliki}}}}

[MyopicJoe]

Kerri

Wow. I really admire the hard work and creativity you've put into raising your children. For lack of a better term, I think you and your husband are giving your children a great "liberal arts" childhood. It seems very natural, for your personality.

My wife and I discussed home schooling, but she decided it's not the thing for her. All parents need to be realistic about what they can and can't do. Use your natural strengths and talents when you can, and realize that it's ok if your children need to go outside of the home for role models in other areas.

Thanks for giving us a glimpse of how you raise your family. BTW, I am SO jealous of that pirate ship. Your kids are very adorable, all costumed up.


SusieMisajon

I think it takes confidence, snarkiness, hard knocks, AND being lolo to survive this crazy world :)

Speaking of looking into the mirror, ever noticed how your face changes as you move from side to side in front of your mirror? Isn't it ironic how we slave to groom a perfect face with an imperfect mirror?


Leo

I like your advice about listening to our children and letting them set the pace of their learning. As a parent, we're tempted to brain dump decades of experience into their little minds, but most of it wouldn't make any sense to them. You'd just end up teaching them how to ignore you.

It's so hard to shut up!


Lavagal

When our youngest first started school, she was rather overwhelmed. She would say things like, "I'll never get this right." Luckily the school signed her up for this PSAP therapy and it's helped her adjust to school life.

Yeah, I also catch myself running automatic programs when dealing with my kids, especially when tired. It takes a while to change old habits. This on the job training is tough!

Wow, a 16-minute timeout. It's been a while since we've had to use one of those, but I just know one day the girls are gonna want to test their boundaries. Must...be...strong...


turtlegirl

Wow, great video! Thanks for the link. That's the sort of stuff I'm looking for (though I'm happy with all these other unexpected insights from our fellow HT'ers).

Oh lordy, your mom couldn't recognize your own pictures after they were airbrushed? I suppose telling you congratulations, for getting in a photo shoot, would be a dubious honor :p


tutusue

Isn't that the curse of parenthood? You never feel you can take credit for your child's successes, but you always feel guilty for their failures.

Thanks for the glimpse of models behind the scenes. It must be a little depressing, to know you look more attractive in print, than in person.


Nords

I think martial arts and other physical activities give girls a sense that their bodies are valuable for more than just their looks. My eldest is currently a bit awkward and timid for martial arts, but she's really taken to artistic dance. My youngest is more of a club dancer and a feisty scrapper.


Pua'i Mana'o

I see what you're saying. As parents, we're supposed to give our children a taste of the world they will face, just toned down to fit their abilities.

I had a great sifu whose true sign of mastery was his ability to ratchet his skill to just one notch above the students. Over the course of a few weeks you could feel yourself making progress. You were actually able to man-handle sifu and believe "I AM THE MASTER NOW!" Of course the next day sifu would take it up a notch, humble you, and start the process all over again.


Kani

I'm glad you survived your childhood and your abusive relationships, Kani.

I want to answer your question (and the other one I sense between the lines), but it's been a hectic night. I wrote a few paragraphs, but they still need editing, and my brain is mush at the moment. I'll give it the attention it deserves after I'm more rested.

Take care, and God bless.

[Vanguard]

Martial arts

I am a firm believer in kendo's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaGKuxjVPUc) ability to revitalize the spirit. Check it out while you're considering various activities.

[kani-lehua]

myopicjoe: "looking for love in all the wrong places." that's what i did...life goes on.....as we know it or as we choose to live it.

e weli ho'i ia 'oe 'o pua'i mana'o: aia i ka uka 'iu 'ohi'a uliuli ka ua kanilehua la e. lehua'ula i kanahele lae. ku mai 'o maunaloa me kona hanohano me ka pa o kehau. "ku'u pu'uwai a me ke aloha e lalau a'e i ka ma'ama'ama me ka mehana o ke ao akea i ka mahie me ka uluwehiwehi." he pua mae 'ole 'ia e ka la a me ka lehua'ula ku makani. please feel free to correct the grammar.

na pua like'ole o hawai'i: hele malie, noho malie. lohe pono, lohe mai i ke a'o.
ho'okahi ko kaua noho pu'ana. e 'imi kakou ma ka mea e ho'okahi ai ka mana'o ana. the various people of hawaii: go slowly, be quiet. listen carefully, heed the teaching. let us live together. let us seek to unite our thoughts into one.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

ʻaʻohe aʻu mea e hoʻoponopono ai! E uluāhewa e ka lehua ʻāpane ē!
ʻo au iho nō me ke kākoʻo :)

[cynsaligia]

i can't offer any advice as a parent bcs..ahem...i'm not one. however, i can tell you about my experience as a daughter. my story's not so different from kani-lehua's. i'm a domestic abuse survivor and i would say that the biggest reason why i was more succeptible to buying my ex's crap is because my self-esteem wasn't as high as it should have been.

also like KL, my mom was central to my self-esteem (or lack thereof). i am built more like my dad's side of the family--a tendency to be under five feet tall, flat-nosed, and roly-poly in the belly if not careful. much of my childhood, i was overweight, partially bcs between mom, mama (my grandma), and school, i ate three meals, three snacks, and probably drank three cans of soda a day. mom was naturally skinny--even at 5'2," most of her life, she didn't weigh more than 95 lbs. she constantly harped on me to suck my stomach in. her nickname for me was "skinny," which i obviously wasn't.

mom was also hard on me, school-wise. i rarely got praise for my grades, which were often all A's except for one or two B's.

she rarely went to my extracurricular activities, too. in fact, when i was in high school, i think she went only to one of my choir performances, and i was in the select choir. to this day, she's only read one or two of my poems or stories (and i'm an english major who adores writing creatively).

we've patched things up, and have a relationship as good as can be expected. however, eric can provide testament as to how my mom can, with a half-second long disapproving glance, still reduce my thirty-something, fierce & damn hot self into wad of hanabata if how i look does not meet her standards.

let me not forget my absent father, who chose never to leave the philippines to help my mom raise me. it wasn't until liver disease almost killed him that he even started a petition to come to the US (by then i was 10 YO); he felt that coming to the US was "selling out" to the colonialists/imperialists. besides, it behooved him to have to start his career as an attorney all over again. unfortunately, he died the same year he started his petition.

i'm ultimately responsible for my adult choices, including staying in an abusive relationship. however, i do believe that if my parents had been more demonstrative in their unconditional love for me, i would have been statistically less likely to have suffered broken ribs and strangulation.

it pains me when i see younger cousins and nieces--in grade school--criticize themselves regarding weight and appearance. they're all beautiful and have their own special talents, but already the self-doubt is insinuating itself into their psyches--they're not good enough. boys generally don't have this problem as much, at least as far as i can tell. i wonder if it's because we generally raise our boys to be go-getters and conquerors while we regale our daughters with false promises about prince charming, who will come only if she waits patiently and prettily.

[lavagal]

ʻaʻohe aʻu mea e hoʻoponopono ai! E uluāhewa e ka lehua ʻāpane ē!
ʻo au iho nō me ke kākoʻo :)

I'm sure this is politically incorrect of me, but, because I am not nor do I know Hawaiian, this tells me I am no longer included in this thread.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I'm sure this is politically incorrect of me, but, because I am not nor do I know Hawaiian, this tells me I am no longer included in this thread.

Gee Lavagal, only you can tell yourself if you are included in this thread, for nothing in my posts to K-L have/should render any other conclusion. As a person who has posted alongside you here for several years now, I am bummed at your reaction. Of all the times Hawaiian gets used (and sometimes abused) here, this little exchange was among the most benign, a simple honoring of strength, and actually wrapped up.

anyway, keep this handy: www.wehewehe.org and feel free to ask me wth I mean next time.

[MyopicJoe]

Pua'i Mana'o

Congrats on getting your first born through high school! Lots of hard work and scary moments, I'm sure. Too bad parents never stop worrying about their children.


cynsaligia

I didn't realize how many survivors we have here on HT. I'm glad you left that abusive relationship behind and found yourself a good man (who's also an expert scooter driver).

Guys have their insecurities too. Maybe we hide it better? One thing most guys fear is that a woman wants to marry him not because she really loves him, but rather just wants anyone who can father a child, give her a white picket house, pay for expensive vacations, and looks good in a tux so she can have that perfect wedding she's always gushing about. Sometimes it feels women are more in love with the idea of being married, than the man himself.


kani-lehua

To answer your question:

Raising children is draining. Children take more than they give, but that's the way it should be. Sometimes a particular child will click with a parent (same personality, same interests, etc.). The parent will feel more recharged with that child, so they have more to give; but a loving parent will give all their children the love they need if: the parent has enough resources (emotional, financial, courage, role models, etc.) to do so. Some people can raise 6 children well. Some just 1. In my jaded opinion, I think the number is 0 for most (until they become stronger and healthier).

Often an abusive parent is frustrated with their own life and they unfairly blame a child. A child makes a great punching bag because they can't fight back. They'll put up with hell because children crave attention above all else.

Here's one scenario: A couple starts off very happily married and have two children they adore. Both parents become busy pulling in two incomes and spend less time with each other. The husband has an affair with a coworker and his wife is devestated. They decide to stay married, for the sake of the children, but the wife is haunted by the affair. They accidently have a third child. When the wife looks at her first two children, she remembers the wonderful days before the affair. She showers them with love and affection. When she looks at her youngest, she's reminded that her dreams of a perfect marriage are now ruined. She can't vent at her husband because he blames her with something like "you neglected me! it was your fault!", but a denfenseless child...

[Leo Lakio]

I'm sure this is politically incorrect of me, but, because I am not nor do I know Hawaiian, this tells me I am no longer included in this thread.Lavagal, I hope you don't generally feel this way; it sends a message similar to those who insist English should be the only language used in America - that use of Hawaiian is somehow improper or meant to shut others out. Based on many of your postings and writings, I know you don't subscribe to that philosophy.

I am not fluent in Hawaiian either, but am pleased to see it alive and well on several threads here (and on other boards that focus on topics of interest to those in Hawai`i - where else would it most belong?) Would you also feel that any men without daughters should feel that they are not included in this thread, and thus are not welcome to contribute?

I would hope that no one fluent in `olelo Hawai`i should hesitate to use that skill, out of a fear of making others feel excluded. That's a factor that can lead to the diminution of a language, which I am certain is not a wish of yours.

Guys have their insecurities too. Maybe we hide it better?It is what we are taught - don't reveal your true feelings, because that is weakness and will be used against you, to a rival's advantage.

If I may again quote (I posted them before, about a year ago) a handful of lines from a song that has long resonated with me, "Race Of Fractions" by Canadian singer/songwriter Stephen Fearing ---

We teach our little girls submission
As the best way to survive
And the measurement of beauty
Becomes the ruler of their lives.

The little boys are marched away
And everything is fine
Till they fall hard upon the road
Their emotions far behind.

[Leo Lakio]

double-posting - sorry.

[lavagal]

Gee Lavagal, only you can tell yourself if you are included in this thread, for nothing in my posts to K-L have/should render any other conclusion. As a person who has posted alongside you here for several years now, I am bummed at your reaction. Of all the times Hawaiian gets used (and sometimes abused) here, this little exchange was among the most benign, a simple honoring of strength, and actually wrapped up.

anyway, keep this handy: www.wehewehe.org and feel free to ask me wth I mean next time.


Here's the deal, Pua'i, any way a quick-hit translation could be provided? I mean, I have no intention of demanding English only, but it just seems like the conversation is taken away from the rest of us when it continues in Hawaiian. I will keep the URL handy, and I'll ask, but I don't want to be in the pain in the butt going WAH? all the time. But then again, I'll probably start seeing some text with regularity and learn through HT. It's probably as close to Hawaiian immersion as I'll get. Thank you for being so gracious to this malahini, or should I say Mahalo?!

Thanks to Leo Lakio for responding, too.

Have a nice day everyone. I managed to get on theBus only to find that both my cellular and my iPhone are at home. In a few minutes I'll have to call home and tell DH. I also stepped into Young Street just as the traffic light turned red. I thought it was turning green. I was really spacing out. I'm no aging senior but I certainly could have been another statistic today. Maybe someone out there might want to hold me up to the light? I think my day will need some divine intervention!

[MyopicJoe]

Leo

It is what we are taught - don't reveal your true feelings, because that is weakness and will be used against you, to a rival's advantage.So true, especially with other men. We let down our guard around women, though.

Hey Leo, thanks for introducing me to Stephen Fearing. He's got a great voice and is an excellent live performer. I'm enjoying some of his music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJjLdcFF6Y) on YouTube.


lavagal

Phew, I'm glad you didn't hurt. I once bent over to pick up a coin off the curb when a bus flew by, inches from my head. That wouldn't have been much of a lucky penny!


I too felt a little left out from Pua'i and Kani's exchange. I figured they were giving each other much needed love and support. Speaking in Hawaiian gives it that extra sense of intimacy, and sometimes you can express certain things better in a given language. I guess it's motivation to learn Hawaiian :)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Here's the deal, Pua'i, any way a quick-hit translation could be provided? I mean, I have no intention of demanding English only, but it just seems like the conversation is taken away from the rest of us when it continues in Hawaiian. I will keep the URL handy, and I'll ask, but I don't want to be in the pain in the butt going WAH? all the time. But then again, I'll probably start seeing some text with regularity and learn through HT. It's probably as close to Hawaiian immersion as I'll get. Thank you for being so gracious to this malahini, or should I say Mahalo?!


Lavagal, I hear what you are saying. In this particular case, it was just an organic thing; to bare one's soul on the internet about such a painful topic. Now, this is the fun part of language; what is so poetic in Hawaiian could come off sounding like a botany exam in English.

For the lava is the first that raids the land and thus the new sapling on the beds are the 'ōhiʻa tree and the kupukupu fern, which everyone knows means to grow and hence we now have the beginnings of a forest which I expect you will identify with now as the strength within you. For you will grow and then leave and then branch and then thicken and then have fungus on your skin which in turns become fertile and hence fertility and so it goes on and on until you have a forest ē alā ē alā ē ā.

Wah at me with freedom, my friend. I believe in the language as a binder not a divider. I believe in its simple and impromptu usage. On this thread, it was spontaneous. I am sensitive enough to balance my need to use the fullness of my ability to express myself, be it in English, Hawaiian or pidgin, with the concern of being inclusive. With that, your point is taken. But, I do believe that constant exposure to language will create comfort with it in the long run. Again, ask me anything, whenever you want. I welcome it.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Cyn,

Extraordinary people are not culled from mundane circumstances. It is one of life's paradoxes. All the interesting people in my life (and I honestly include that lede in the mirror) have ptsd. The mature ones are those who do their best to wall it off from the public. Invariably, it expresses itself in one way or another, mostly messing with one's head when s/he is in his/her 30s-40s. No other way around it, I'm afraid (or resigned to believe).

Reconcile, get external, remember what time of day it is, and shake it off. Throw motherhood into the mix and wonder, honestly wonder, "what am I doing to these little loved ones of mine?" and that's a whole 'nother round of mirror-beating right there…

[lavagal]

>>>snip!<<<
For the lava is the first that raids the land and thus the new sapling on the beds are the 'ōhiʻa tree and the kupukupu fern, which everyone knows means to grow and hence we now have the beginnings of a forest which I expect you will identify with now as the strength within you. For you will grow and then leave and then branch and then thicken and then have fungus on your skin which in turns become fertile and hence fertility and so it goes on and on until you have a forest ē alā ē alā ē ā.

Wah at me with freedom, my friend. I believe in the language as a binder not a divider. I believe in its simple and impromptu usage. On this thread, it was spontaneous. I am sensitive enough to balance my need to use the fullness of my ability to express myself, be it in English, Hawaiian or pidgin, with the concern of being inclusive. With that, your point is taken. But, I do believe that constant exposure to language will create comfort with it in the long run. Again, ask me anything, whenever you want. I welcome it.

Fluid, in English, more so, I'm sure, to hear in Hawaiian. I'm glad I whined! That was quite uplifting for me. I have a father-in-law who is a linguistics professor (retired) at UH, concentrated mostly on Oceania-based languages, and co-wrote a Micronesian dictionary. I am given toward appreciation of the Pacific languages as a result. Mahalo, Pua'i!

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Fluid, in English, more so, I'm sure, to hear in Hawaiian. I'm glad I whined! That was quite uplifting for me. I have a father-in-law who is a linguistics professor (retired) at UH, concentrated mostly on Oceania-based languages, and co-wrote a Micronesian dictionary. I am given toward appreciation of the Pacific languages as a result. Mahalo, Pua'i!

What this means to me is to gain another ally in the long-term goal of Hawaiian being used comfortably around everyone throughout Hawaiʻi. If this exchange makes you feel more comfortable asking and head-wrapping, then I yell "bonus!"

[lavagal]

I really gotta get back to work, but, I have this distinct desire to give some atta girls to Pua'i!!

OK, back to osteoporosis documentation I go!

[Pua'i Mana'o]

chīhū! Check us! Esteem building in action!
::::high fives
:D

[kani-lehua]

as we all have learned, there are several hters whom are survivors of domestic violence/abuse. some are still working through the complexities of their situations while some have made the difficult decision to move on with their lives without their "loved" ones by their sides. how one is molded; how one is confident or has self esteem stems from our ubringing/parents. this we have learned, too, from the children who have replied to this thread. while some of you have voiced that you can truly love your children equally, you have heard from children whose stories are neither unique nor rare but rather common. we are victims of domestic violence/abuse and have lived to tell our stories (says thank you GOD) while others have not been so "fortunate."

that being said, here's the literal translation to my direct reply to pua'i mana'o:

there in the high country 'ohi'a fruits ripen from the kanilehua rain
red lehua throughout the forest
maunaloa appears in all her majesty with the breeze of the kehau
"my heart and my love reach out for the brightness and
here in the warmth of the great wide world amid the splendor and the lush beauty"
a blossom that won't be wilted by the sun and the red lehua stands in the wind.

some are born with inner strength; some have to learn it.

[turtlegirl]

That. Was. Beautiful.

[cynsaligia]

now i want to hug everybody in here!!!!

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((HT))))))))))))))))))))) ))))))))))

[MyopicJoe]

my heart and my love reach out for the brightness
and here in the warmth of the great wide world amid the splendor and the lush beauty
a blossom that won't be wilted by the sun and the red lehua stands in the wind.Such beautiful poetry, even though it sometimes sounds like a botany exam ;)

Thanks, kani-lehua and pua'i mana'o, for taking the time to translate it for us!

[kani-lehua]

oh, oh! forgive me. i did not mean to mislead anyone. i did not write the first two lines that were quoted by myopicjoe. my original post #33 and the translation post #49 included quotation marks which have been omitted. i would like to give credit where credit is due, but i cannot remember the original writer's name. hence, the reason for not mentioning the person in the beginning. the rest is mine. apologies.

lesson #2:

"now i want to hug everybody in here!!!!

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((HT))))))))))))))))))))) ))))))))))
__________________
..the HTer formerly known as ericncyn..."

have you hugged your child or SO today?

[MyopicJoe]

included quotation marks which have been omitted

ahhhh so. yeah I got confused as to why the quotation marks were there, so I deleted them. heh heh. my bad

still. beautiful poetry and thanks for bringing it to our attention :)