Slow airline decline

[Amati]

Is anyone else feeling somewhat vulnerable with the unstable airline situation? It seems that almost every news source is carrying some sort of story about airlines discussing “going under” (due in part to the high fuel charges). During 9-11, it was uncomfortable being in Hawaii knowing that we were all …“stranded” here, but at least we knew it was just temporary.

But, what if more airlines go out of business? Or, what if the remaining airlines start charging fees so high that only the rich can afford to fly? I don’t know about you, but this situation seems like “slow terrorism” to me, not a fast event, but a slow and steady hacking away at our air transportation.

What do you think about this? Do you have kids in college on the mainland? Mainland relatives you might want to visit? Feel dependant on mainland food and supplies? What if the airlines stop flying, or drastically cut flights to Hawaii?

I've NEVER worried about this before. But NOW, I am.

[helen]

I guess you never lived in the State of Hawaii during the early 1960's or before. Sure we had jet travel back then but some people actually took a ship to get here. It wasn't cheap and it wasn't fast but it worked.

I think you are worrying for the wrong reasons. I will be more concerned on the availabity of jet fuel more than the cost of it.

[acousticlady]

I guess you never lived in the State of Hawaii during the early 1960's or before. Sure we had jet travel back then but some people actually took a ship to get here. It wasn't cheap and it wasn't fast but it worked.

I think you are worrying for the wrong reasons. I will be more concerned on the availabity of jet fuel more than the cost of it.

Funny you should mention that. This has been a big discussion in our house. The increase in airfares may become a huge issue. For now we are still flying, but the question of 'what will we do if....' has been a topic of conversation. Even now, there are cruises from the west coast to Honolulu that run about $1200 for interior cabins. Plus, I need to consider the cost of getting to the west coast (around $400 as of now). This is still more expensive than flying straight through ($1100 as of now - compared to $550 a few months ago). The ships aren't really set up for one way or even round trip type of travel. I bet that if the air fares (or fuel availability) becomes a larger issue, the cruise lines will start looking into travel by ship. I don't know of any ships where you can book passage in the same way you can book air fare right now. Honestly, I haven't looked that closely.

This may have a huge impact on the tourist industry though. I can't imagine how a family of 4 or even a honeymoon couple will be able to afford a vacation in Hawaii. We need to actively bring in industries that will provide employment opportunities. I have very distinct ideas on this - but that would be off topic :( - and then I'd get yelled at :eek:.

[Random]

Is anyone else feeling somewhat vulnerable with the unstable airline situation? It seems that almost every news source is carrying some sort of story about airlines discussing “going under” (due in part to the high fuel charges). During 9-11, it was uncomfortable being in Hawaii knowing that we were all …“stranded” here, but at least we knew it was just temporary.

But, what if more airlines go out of business? Or, what if the remaining airlines start charging fees so high that only the rich can afford to fly? I don’t know about you, but this situation seems like “slow terrorism” to me, not a fast event, but a slow and steady hacking away at our air transportation.

What do you think about this? Do you have kids in college on the mainland? Mainland relatives you might want to visit? Feel dependant on mainland food and supplies? What if the airlines stop flying, or drastically cut flights to Hawaii?

I've NEVER worried about this before. But NOW, I am.
Considering that we don't have good affordable air cargo service for commercial businesses like our grocery markets to begin with on Molokai, we have to live with it. Other general merchandise could probably be ordered and shipped here.

As for taking trips off-island, I rarely do. And if the airline businesses do stop in Hawaii, then I'll be voicing support to get HSF to dock in our port.

[Amati]

Sorry my previous posting was in such large font, I don't know why that happened.
Cruise ships will not replace it if we have an airline decline. Think about 9-11, when there was no neighbor island and no mainland travel. Many neighbor island folk need to travel to Oahu for medical treatment. Many neighbor island folk have elderly relatives or children living on different islands. Tourism (and many jobs!) depends on the masses that airlines bring in. Cruise ships will not be a replacement.

[tutusue]

[...] We need to actively bring in industries that will provide employment opportunities. I have very distinct ideas on this - but that would be off topic :( - and then I'd get yelled at :eek:.
Ah, but you wouldn't get yelled at if you started a new thread with that topic. It sounds interesting to me!

Back on topic...I order a lot of merchandise from the internet. I anticipate shipping prices to skyrocket or travel time to take much longer. I wonder how this will impact Amazon.com. I love their free shipping policy for orders over $25...even to Hawaii. I hope that doesn't change but how can it not?

[Amati]

On a personal note, I travel to the mainland often for work. I'll be unemployed if the airlines collapse. But, I guess I'll be able to meet many new people as I stand in the unemployment line, all those hotel workers, restaurant workers, vendors, construction workers, airline employees, airport employees, etc that would be standing there along with me.

[helen]

Companies come and go, sure right now it's a slump in the business, but it's not like the entire passenger airline industry in the United States are going to fail and it ends up that no planes are flying.

[Random]

Cruise ships will not replace it if we have an airline decline.
Last I checked, HSF is not a cruise ship.

[Random]

On a personal note, I travel to the mainland often for work. I'll be unemployed if the airlines collapse. But, I guess I'll be able to meet many new people as I stand in the unemployment line, all those hotel workers, restaurant workers, vendors, construction workers, airline employees, airport employees, etc that would be standing there along with me.
Always see a silver lining, especially in a hurricane. :D

[Random]

Companies come and go, sure right now it's a slump in the business, but it's not like the entire passenger airline industry in the United States are going to fail and it ends up that no planes are flying.
I wonder what happens if fossil fuel is finally dried up? What else can they make jet fuel out of?

[salmoned]

Puppy dog tails.

Ewww, it's made of PEOPLE!

Eye of newt and wing of bat...

[Frankie's Market]

Companies come and go, sure right now it's a slump in the business, but it's not like the entire passenger airline industry in the United States are going to fail and it ends up that no planes are flying.

I concur. We'll end up with either new or vastly restructured older carriers, where more of the consumer's money goes towards things like the actual cost of running the business and less of the proceeds goes into overinflated salaries of CEOs and executives. ;)

[Walkoff Balk]

There's always Hot Air Balloon travel? Unless there's a hot air shortage.

[tutusue]

[...]Unless there's a hot air shortage.
<drum roll, please>
An emergency supply can be found on HT!
</drum roll>
:D

[Random]

I concur. We'll end up with either new or vastly restructured older carriers, where more of the consumer's money goes towards things like the actual cost of running the business and less of the proceeds goes into overinflated salaries of CEOs and executives. ;)
The very least those suits could do is pay off their investors with overinflated returns. :p

[Composite 2992]

Don't be surprised if you see some airlines bringing back turboprops. They're much more fuel efficient than turbofans.

Island Air has the right idea. It'll be interesting to see how the competition develops over the next few years.

[Random]

Ewww, it's made of PEOPLE!
Soylent Green. Fuel for people and vehicles, too.

[Amati]

High fuels costs continue to gut the airlines. Revenue in the quarter that ended June 30:

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080722/BREAKING01/80722014/-1/BREAKINGNEWSFRONT


UAL Corp.'s United Airlines had a loss of $430 million. US Airways had a $567 million loss, and plans to cut 1,700 jobs. JetBlue Airways Corp. had a $7 million loss, and will shut down its operations in Ontario, Calif.

It does not seem like things can continue the direction they are headed without the fuel burning Hawaii routes being cut back.

[Random]

Island Air has the right idea.
Meh. Hawaiian Air had the Dash-7, a roomier predecessor to Island Air's Dash-8.

Some may call it rustic, but Island Air's Dash-8 are just plain smell. :eek:

[helen]

UAL Corp.'s United Airlines had a loss of $430 million. US Airways had a $567 million loss, and plans to cut 1,700 jobs. JetBlue Airways Corp. had a $7 million loss, and will shut down its operations in Ontario, Calif.

It does not seem like things can continue the direction they are headed without the fuel burning Hawaii routes being cut back.

I know United flys to Hawaii, but does JetBlue and US Airways fly to Hawaii also? And if they don't how does those airlines affect us?

[mel]

US Airways flies to Hawaii. They have a $319 OW trip HNL to Phoenix AZ.

Jet Blue does not.

[sophielynette]

I just saw $640 round trip from HNL to Cincinnati (where my family lives). The deals can be found if you're patient and know where to look.

Last year, year before last, I loved to travel. I had the bug. Now I'm poor and I live on an island. You adjust. There's been talk of building a raft. A really big one.

[mel]

Last year, year before last, I loved to travel. I had the bug. Now I'm poor and I live on an island. You adjust.

That's the key word... adjust. Everyone's doing it. I spend less, definitely travel less, by plane or by car. Staycation this summer.

Airlines are adjusting too, but so far the only thing they are doing is jacking up fares and adding more fees. Public reaction is naturally to use them less. Stay home is cheaper.

One way airlines could generate more revenue without hitting most of the public in the wallet: Sell display ad space on the outsides of their airplanes. Works for NASCAR.

[Leo Lakio]

One way airlines could generate more revenue without hitting most of the public in the wallet: Sell display ad space on the outsides of their airplanes.Why not on the inside as well? Along the walls, similar to city buses. More commercials during in-flight videos. Ads on the backs of tray tables. Sponsor logos on the flight attendant uniforms. A drop-down tag attached to your oxygen mask ("This sudden depressurization of the cabin is brought to you by State Farm, reminding you to check and see if your life insurance policies are up-to-date...if you get back home alive, that is.")

Okay, I was kidding with the last one.

Maybe. :rolleyes:

[Random]

Staycation this summer.
Oh, please. I've been doing that even before that silly word was coined. :rolleyes:

[Walkoff Balk]

Staycation this summer.
Staycation? Isn't that a song by The Go-Go's?

[helen]

Sell display ad space on the outsides of their airplanes. Works for NASCAR.
It doesn't scale well to planes that fly over 30,000 feet, that rarely gets filmed or looked at.

Then again one airline company could be <something> and buy ad space on another airline company.

Then you also have to worry about repainting the planes when the ad term limit is up.

<something> = rude, sneaky, bold or anything else one wants to put here.

[tutusue]

Oh, please. I've been doing that even before that silly word was coined. :rolleyes:
You're in "Oh, please" mode this week, Random! :D

Decades before "staycation" became part of the vernacular, I moved to my ultimate vacation destination. I have no desire to vacation...or live...anywhere else.

[Random]

You're in "Oh, please" mode this week, Random! :D
Yeah, cynicism becomes me.

[mel]

In regards to advertising on planes, it can be done with decals I think. Hawaiian Airlines has in the past flown the Oakland Raiders NFL football team (Raiders logo on side of jet) and last year, I think they had one plane with the University of Hawaii logo on it when it became the charter airline to fly the football team to the Sugar Bowl last year.

Remember, airliners do spend many hours on the ground at various terminals across the nation and the world. They slowly taxi from one part of the airport to another.

Advertising may be something to look into. If not on the plane certainly more of it inside then, like ad panels on the sides of the inside luggage compartment doors, in the bathroom, wherever. They have a captured audience once airborne.

[Leo Lakio]

Staycation? Isn't that a song by The Go-Go's?"Vacation" is by The Go-Go's; "Staycation" is by The Stop-Stop's. Easy to confuse the two.

Note to Random: lucky you live Moloka`i - good reason to stay close to home, yeah?

[leashlaws]

Decades before "staycation" became part of the vernacular, I moved to my ultimate vacation destination. I have no desire to vacation...or live...anywhere else.

I don't think I did the quote thing right.....someday I'll get it....
But I agree with Tutusue. I'm not living anywhere else and I hate to travel anywhere else. When the inevitable comes and my beloved mother finally leaves us I can stop traveling that 8 hours twice a year to the mainland and enjoy things here on vacation. What a joy it would be to be able to stay home for a whole week or two and just enjoy things here. I've never been to Europe and I have no interest in ever going.

[Random]

In regards to advertising on planes, it can be done with decals I think. Hawaiian Airlines has in the past flown the Oakland Raiders NFL football team (Raiders logo on side of jet) and last year, I think they had one plane with the University of Hawaii logo on it when it became the charter airline to fly the football team to the Sugar Bowl last year.
The Raiders??? Meh, coulda been worse, like the 49ers.

Advertising may be something to look into. If not on the plane certainly more of it inside then, like ad panels on the sides of the inside luggage compartment doors, in the bathroom, wherever. They have a captured audience once airborne.
If the inside turns into some like TheBus, I want a $40 monthly Air Pass. :D

[tutusue]

[...]Then again one airline company could be <something> and buy ad space on another airline company.[...]
That wouldn't happen, Helen. Companies are very conscious of avoiding "product conflicts".

[sophielynette]

The Raiders??? Meh, coulda been worse, like the 49ers.


If the inside turns into some like TheBus, I want a $40 monthly Air Pass. :D

Standing room only with handles to hold onto?

[Walkoff Balk]

Decades before "staycation" became part of the vernacular
Staycation is creative. But, No made-up word can top Bradgelina.

[tutusue]

Staycation is creative. But, No made-up word can top Bradgelina.
How 'bout...Benifer? :D

[Random]

Note to Random: lucky you live Moloka`i - good reason to stay close to home, yeah?
I got a house here. No sense paying rent on Oahu.

[Random]

Standing room only with handles to hold onto?
That's what I usually do in a crowded bus. I'm lucky if I could find a seat. Even luckier if someone would sit next to me. Yeah, I'm that fugly.

[timkona]

GO RAIDERS !!!!

Can I get an "Amen"?

[Amati]

http://information.travel.aol.com/article/news-feeds/_a/los-angeles-airport-sees-drastic/20080731104909990001?icid=200100397x1207163097x120 0364792

LA airport is going to see a 16.4 % reduction in the number of flights. "High fuel prices and travelers without extra cash for plane tickets will result in drastic cuts in the number of flights at Los Angeles International Airport."

It is expected that "American Airlines plans to eliminate 86 arrivals and departures at the airport per week in November, Delta plans to eliminate 68, United plans to cut 266 flights, and those big airlines' regional affiliates also plan to eliminate more than 1,200 weekly commuter flights at the airport".

The slow airline decline continues.

[Random]

GO RAIDERS !!!!

Can I get an "Amen"?
Nope.

But at least I can tolerate Raiders fans. 49ers fans, not so much.

[Amati]

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080915/BREAKING03/80915033

"United Airlines, the No. 2 U.S. carrier, is doubling the fee for checking a second bag on domestic flights to $50 each way, blaming higher jet-fuel costs."

Family of four. 10 day vacation. 2 luggages each. $400 extra fee!
Family discussion:
"Honey, we might as well just drive to San Diego and stay in a nice hotel there. Or, how about Disneyland?"
Tourism is going to be affected - anyone in the hotel or food industry, save your pennies now while you have them.