Oahu's hit and runs, WTF?!

[Ron Whitfield]

In the last few years Oahu seems to be gunning for the title of 'hit and run capital of America', if indeed it doesn't already wear the crown.

We just had two in one day, resulting in a fatality, and a search is on for the puke that dug out in a red pick up truck with significant damage to the front end.
There have got to be people out there who know of this newly damaged vehicle, and if they keep their mouth's shut, then they are just as culpable as the killer.

Before the last 5 years, I don't recall this island having any hit and runs, but in recent years it has become the popular thing to do for examples of the most irresponsible low life in our society.
What the hell has prompted such a sudden run on mentallities so devoid of caring or consience to allow someone in a sad enuf situation to not do the right thing, no matter what the following consequences?
This pathetic behaviour is absolutely unacceptable and someone somehow needs to find solutions to rectify this disgusting trend.

[scrivener]

There have got to be people out there who know of this newly damaged vehicle, and if they keep their mouth's shut, then they are just as culpable as the killer.
Really? People who know about it but don't tell are JUST as culpable as the person behind the wheel? So if we find out they knew but didn't tell, they should be given the same sentence as the person who drove?

Before the last 5 years, I don't recall this island having any hit and runs, but in recent years it has become the popular thing to do for examples of the most irresponsible low life in our society.
It does seem to be popping up a lot more lately, but please. "Popular thing to do?" Seriously, nobody sets out to be a hit-and-run driver. It's a spur-of-the-moment thing, I think, that snowballs on a person, as things often do when people spontaneously commit acts of irresponsibility.

What the hell has prompted such a sudden run on mentalities so devoid of caring or conscience to allow someone in a sad enough situation to not do the right thing, no matter what the following consequences?
This is actually the real question. I think we all understand the feeling of panic that sets in when we've done something really, really stupid and when the consequences are really, really dire. I have nothing to back this up with, but I suspect two things. First, the punishments for failing to render aid, all things considered, might be worse than the punishments for DUI. Better to sober up and then 'fess up, goes the theory, than to deal with the DUI consequences. Second, we do live in a society that encourages first looking out for number one. Ideas like compassion, forgiveness, and personal responsibility, while certainly still encouraged and (I believe) innate, are in conflict with a culture that seems to inspire us to get away with whatever we can get away with.

This pathetic behaviour is absolutely unacceptable and someone somehow needs to find solutions to rectify this disgusting trend.
Nobody's going to argue with you that it's unacceptable, but I am unconvinced that's it's necessarily a trend. The media tends to latch onto certain things when they are hot topics, and this one's pretty hot right now. Last year, it was teachers and drugs. Two years ago, it was unattended babies being taken in stolen cars. While at the time these both seemed like "trends," they turned out (probably!) to be anomalies, as I suspect this is. In any case, it's already illegal to fail to render aid. What else do you suggest should be done?

PS: I know you're upset, and it is an upsetting situation, but your implied profanity in the subject line is uncalled for and inappropriate.

[Frankie's Market]

What to do about hit-and-run incidents, what to do?

Here's a random thought, FWIW. (And maybe it's worth very little.)

I keep seeing this commercial from GM, which promotes the On Star system. Says that if a driver in one of these cars with an active On Star system gets into an accident, it can automatically send out a signal calling for emergency assistance, with the vehicle's location. Very handy when a driver is knocked unconscious, disabled, and otherwise unable to call for help on their own.

So imagine this: If every car on the road was required to have this kind of system activated, then it could be used by law enforcement to help track down hit-and-run perpetrators, could it not?

I know the obstacles. The cost. Making the system tamper-proof. And then there would be those "right to privacy" folks who will moan and complain.

But there ya go, Ron. The technology does exist to greatly reduce/deter hit-and-run incidents. But there will be financial and political hurdles that have to be overcome.

[Adri]

There may be an increase in hit-and-run accidents, not just here. or maybe there's just more press coverage about it. This thread reminded me of an article I saw about Robert Novak recently.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/23/politics/politico/main4286279.shtml

I don't know how Novak could say he didn't know he hit someone when a witness says the victim was "sort of splayed onto the windshield." If not for that witness chasing Novak's car and physically blocking him, Novak would have run away, too. I think all Novak got was a manini fine and what he said was something like "he's (the victim's) not dead, that's the main thing."

[Ron Whitfield]

Morally and ethically, yes, those who know and keep quiet are indeed equally culpable. The courts won't find them legally equal, and in most cases won't even prosecute. That helps...

Not now a trend/popular?
Of course it is. Once it started happening a few years ago and people were getting away with it, it gave the next ones the idea to flee as well. If the first bunch that ran would have been caught and dealt with appropriately, the signal would have been maintained that this would not be a smart move. But now, it's become the prefered action; run away and maybe get away with seriously injuring someone and leave them to die by your actions and following inactions.

Hot media topic?
These gutless cowards are doing it because there hasn't been any media uproar, and no major sentencing at trial. If it was a hot topic, you wouldn't be seeing this crap escalate, and judges would feel pressured to act on the heavy side.

Implied profanity, uncalled for? Give it up. There are plenty of examples on this forum with that type, and more than merely inferred.
Inappropriate? Very appropriate. I'm not into PC.

Upset? You bet! This type of criminality needed to be dealt with severely the very first time it happened. If it had, we wouldn't be talking about it now, and how many would still be alive?

It's another indicator that our society's moral compass has broken.

[kani-lehua]

while this incident is not a, "hit and run", the woman was in a marked crosswalk and killed by an off duty police officer. the officer will not face any criminal charges and the family alleges "cover up". they will pursue the matter civilly.

http://www.khon2.com/news/local/25885099.html

[TATTRAT]

I was the victim of one, week before Halloween this past year, coming over the lil bridge over the Ali wai, between the Ala Moana center, and hobron.

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=13955&highlight=blue+mustang

Cops did nothing except take a report, never heard anything back, and got the impression I was VERY low on the priority list...figured it was a tourist that hit me, but seriously, someone returning a blue mustang, with damage, and we had the last 4 of the plate...c'mon, must need Magnum PI back on Oahu.

[buzz1941]

I wonder how many hit-and-run drivers were chatting on cell phones when they plowed into someone....

On the other hand, I now see a lot of pedestrians chatting on phones and they step into the streets without looking....

[Leo Lakio]

On the other hand, I now see a lot of pedestrians chatting on phones and they step into the streets without looking....I know your point is that there are always gonna be stupid pedestrians, but when we drive, we are responsible for anticipating risky behavior on the road - from other drivers or foolish cyclists or clueless pedestrians. The burden always falls on the vehicle driver, because of the level of damage that can be caused by inattentive recklessness. By any party.

[tutusue]

[...]
On the other hand, I now see a lot of pedestrians chatting on phones and they step into the streets without looking....
Thank you for this observation, Burl, as I, too, am seeing more and more of this behavior. Actually my observation is the majority of these ignorant pedestrians aren't on cell phones but still step into the street, both in a crosswalk and out of one, without even a glance. It's straight ahead come hell or high water and I dare you to hit me. Those are the ones for which I'd love one of the products listed in this thread (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=15316&highlight=bull+horn&page=2)!

[Leo Lakio]

I'm having trouble understanding this line of thinking that says just because a pedestrian is being stupid, inattentive or reckless, a driver is therefore entitled to behave in a risky manner themselves, as though operating a motor vehicle puts one in a position of entitlement or superiority on the roads.

[kani-lehua]

question: if you are a bicyclist, do you have to go in the same direction as the traffic? the reason for asking is that several hit and runs have included bicyclists being hit from behind. i see people riding with and against the traffic in the bike lanes over here in kailua.

being that i do a lot of walking, i go against the traffic. even that can be scary. sometimes i feel as though i am a "target" though not intentionally. it's like there's some kind of magnetic force drawing us together. it's weird.

[turtlegirl]

I believe it goes Walk against traffic, Bike with the flow of traffic.

Teehee, when I'm driving, I feel this magnetic force, as thought other cars can't avoid almost hitting me! I too am an unintentional target!!

When I walk around Kailua, I don't care which way traffic is going...usually I'm waaaay far away from the road as possible, in the grass. And I always cross at crosswalks! :)

Also, here I see a lot of bicyclists on the sidewalk, and they don't yield to pedestrians very often. Much less look for oncoming traffic or people pulling out of driveways.

[tutusue]

I'm having trouble understanding this line of thinking that says just because a pedestrian is being stupid, inattentive or reckless, a driver is therefore entitled to behave in a risky manner themselves, as though operating a motor vehicle puts one in a position of entitlement or superiority on the roads.
Leo...which post are you referring to that indicates driver entitlement?

I strongly believe drivers must drive defensively AND pedestrians must walk defensively AND cyclists must ride defensively. Everyone must be vigilant. As for my observations, I'm seeing a huge increase in extremely inattentive (or uncaring, as the case may be) pedestrians.

There are more cyclists on the road now. Honolulu isn't well equipped for them. They scare the bejeezus out of me, mainly because it doesn't take much to cause a bicycle to veer or fall...a rut or rock in the road could do it.

[kani-lehua]

I strongly believe drivers must drive defensively AND pedestrians must walk defensively AND cyclists must ride defensively. Everyone must be vigilant.

indeed/agreed!

turtlegirl: it's true about the cyclists on the sidewalks. i've seen some "near misses"--another type of hit and maybe run type of accident that's just waiting to occur.

[Ron Whitfield]

HI State law states you must ride not only in the same direction with traffic, but just as though you were a regular car type vehicle, in the lane and taking your hand off the bar to signal, etc.
That's nuts.
Only those with racer type bikes and conditioning can hang with most traffic, unless it's slow moving (like me), and with the crummy road conditions, it's too risky not to keep both hands on.
I much prefer to ride against traffic. I want to know when someone is about to hit me, not after the fact. You can get a good look at the car/driver for future ID, as well as... other things.

Cell phones are a huge hazard. The cell lobby has been much too successful in keeping laws off the books, plus most/all legislators blab all the time when driving.

The problem of drivers blindly plowing across sidewalks is another one that bugs me. had one nearly wipe me off the planet last week.
And this morning, watched a guy in the crosswalk almost get creamed by a 'who cares' cell phone blabbing moron.

Amazing how many on Hotel St. still jaywalk, and right in front of buses, even though the fine is $100, and cops are often around with bug eye.

[buzz1941]

Bicycles are considered vehicles, and must move with the flow of traffic. I do see a lot of bicyclists violating this, another reason to be vigilant.

I don't think anyone here is saying that drivers are entitled to run over the ignorant. But we drum into our kids the admonition to look both ways before crossing the street, and no matter what age you are, that's good advice.

I admit to being confused about the policeman who ran over the pedestrian. He's not being prosecuted -- or even charged -- for the death because investigators say there's no evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Isn't that up to a jury or judge to decide?

[TuNnL]

There are more cyclists on the road now. Honolulu isn't well equipped for them.IMHO, this is one of the main reasons for these senseless accidents. We need to focus on creating more bike lanes! I don’t know how many neighborhoods (Mililani comes to mind) I’ve seen where there are HUGE median strips complete with large trees, foliage, along with a flurry of street signs. If city planners were more thoughtful, they would have narrowed those medians to allow enough space for bike lanes on each side of the street. Mufi has begun running television ads of his accomplishments as I predicted he would in this thread (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=15557). I’d like to see one that includes how many bike lanes he added during his tenure. :p

[Walkoff Balk]

There may be an increase in hit-and-run accidents, not just here. or maybe there's just more press coverage about it. This thread reminded me of an article I saw about Robert Novak recently.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/23/politics/politico/main4286279.shtml

I don't know how Novak could say he didn't know he hit someone when a witness says the victim was "sort of splayed onto the windshield." If not for that witness chasing Novak's car and physically blocking him, Novak would have run away, too. I think all Novak got was a manini fine and what he said was something like "he's (the victim's) not dead, that's the main thing."
There are the Novak rules:
Robert Novak always has the right of way.
Robert Novak is a busy man, so everyone else must clear a path for him.
Robert Novak has greatness in the world that would benefit mankind.
Robert Novak rules, Man, he rules.

I don't want to tell them what to wear. But, Bicyclists shouldn't wear dark clothing at night. It can't be a vanity thing just to look slimmer.

[sophielynette]

My roommate has almost been hit twice while crossing the street, in the crosswalk, on the walking light, just a block from our apartment. The first time she was actually close enough to hit the car on the hood as it sped by.

I cross Kapiolani behind the convention center every day coming home from work, and it's a bit scary. Cars keep going after the light has changed, and often they're blocking not only the crosswalk but the intersection as well. If you step out into the street when the signal turns to walk there's a good chance of getting hit by a car.

And bicycles.. I don't blame them for riding on the sidewalk, I wouldn't want to be riding in the street with the cars. But don't just go wizzing past a hair's breath from people without at least announcing your presence. Doesn't anyone use a bell or a horn anymore?

[Ron Whitfield]

There have been quite a few h&r's since my last post and now again this weekend we have yet two more!

This is totally unacceptable and officials need to focus some sort of campaign to solve the delima, and set stiffer penalties for those who commit such crass offenses. There needs to be a reversal of mind sets in the heads of those who even consider running away from and accident, especially when someone has been seriously hit, and in the heads of the community to not stand for this any longer.