Best olympic athlete: Bolt or Ueno

[miltk]

Many will say Phelps is the athlete of the 2008 Olympics....but Phelps was somewhat expected to take home 8 and he had god on his side in two events. (http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlete=817/bio/index.html)

I say Bolt nipping Japan's Ueno by a whisker. Bolt is an obvious choice,,,,two golds two world shattering records , including one(the 200) that many thought was unbreakable for a long long long time.

But Yukiko Ueno did something unexpected and remarkable,,,,she beat the USA softball team. For those who may not know, the US softball team was akin to the US baskeball team,,,,an unbeatable juggernaut,,,the May/Walsh of softball,,,,the China of diving and table tennis. The US domination is one reason given why softball will no longer be in the olympics. the US won by a total run production of 50+ to 1 in Athens, and in Beijing they outscored their opponents by 57 to 2,,,,until Japan in the final.

Ueno pitched every pitch of every inning in every game I believe, and in the last two days she pitched 28 innings in three games,,,21 yesterday and 7 in the final(the games are 7 innings). She did the unimaginable,,,the unexpected,,,,better than Phelps but not as good as Bolt, imo.

[scrivener]

That's quite an imaginative use of commas there. I think my left eyeball exploded before I'd finished reading the third line.

Something that must be kept in mind is that because Bolt performs in the highest-profile events in all of track and field (and possibly all of the Olympics—I mean really: is the men's 100m freestyle more glamorous than the men's 100m dash? hardly!), all eyes are on him on the greatest stage in his sport. Also, because of that event's huge profile, the best sprinters in the world compete in it.

Softball's a great game; however it's not played everywhere, and one reason the US women dominate is that the US is where it's played most. It's really an American sport.

Because of its lower profile, softball seldom draws the best athletes. That probably sounds insensitive and harsh, but think about the best athletes in your high school. What sports did they play? It probably sounds like I'm dissing on softball. I'm not. I love that game. But you and I have both seen more no-hitters in that sport than we can count. No-hitters are almost routine in that sport, especially at the game's highest levels of play.

Ueno's accomplishment: Enormous! Bolt's: Superhuman.

[pzarquon]

Agreed. I think a more interesting question would be Bolt vs. Phelps. There are accomplishments that say volumes about being an athlete, and there are accomplishments that say volumes about human capability. Eight gold medals? Unprecedented. But... I'd go with Bolt as well.

[miltk]

But that argument can be made for many sports, ie, that T&F doesn't get all the "greatest" athletes because many of them gravitate to the more lucrative big-money sports. Or that baseball records are somewhat tainted because "negro players" weren't allowed to play in Ruth's era. I have heard THAT for years. The simple fact is, it is what it is and you have to judge within the zeitgeist of that time.

The USA softball team was a juggernaut of the sport and therefore Ueno faced off against a juggernaut of a team. The LACK of participation(or competition)as you say doesn't detract from the level at which the USA competed vs. ALL other teams. It would be like dismissing China's table tennis team because the rest of the world hasn't caught up. Shall we discredit all USA medals in basketball UNTIL we lost to Russia because since only then did it become "competitive".

Regardless, they are the three outstanding performances of the Olympics.

btw,,,I get a ton of remarks from my friends about how I punctuate :):):). I punctuate like I talk,, so that extra commas = longer pauses etc etc.

[LocalMotion]

Phelps has to be considered here. He workout regime is crazy. His conditioning is amazing. He won 8 gold medals, with 7 WORLD records.

Bolt is no doubt a great athlete, but he only won 2 races. maybe if he'd have won in other T&F events he would have a better case...

To each his own, but i choose Phelps

[lavagal]

Bryan Clay does an alright job, if you ask me.:rolleyes::p:)

[localmoco]

Agreed. I think a more interesting question would be Bolt vs. Phelps. There are accomplishments that say volumes about being an athlete, and there are accomplishments that say volumes about human capability. Eight gold medals? Unprecedented. But... I'd go with Bolt as well.

I have to give the edge to Phelps over Bolt. Both athletes won gold medals and broke world records, but Phelps had a MUCH more grueling program. Phelps also won gold medals and broke world records in events that are not his specialties. To match Phelps, Bolt would have to add a few more events such as long jump, hurdles, etc.

[Random]

Best Olympic Athlete: Bryan Clay. Bar none. Bolt got nothing on Clay.

[Adri]

By "best olympic athlete" do you mean just physical accomplishment? Because Bolt is talking heavy criticism for his lack of sportsmanship and conduct not really becoming an olympic athlete ~ his lack of congratulating or acknowledging his competitors, his bragging about himself. Hmmm, on second thought, whether by sportsmanship or physcial accomplishment, I still go with Phelps.

[scrivener]

Shoot. Did I read this thread wrong? I thought we were discussing Bolt and Ueno. I agree with the original poster that it's EASILY Phelps; I don't want it misunderstood that I think Bolt's accomplishment is better than Phelps's, because it's not even close. PLEASE don't think I think that!

As for Clay, sure. He's great. But all he did was win gold in the Decathlon. How is his accomplishment greater than the victories of anyone else who's won gold in that event?

[LikaNui]

I don't think it's fair to make a comparison and choose who is "best" because there are too many variables. Apples and oranges.
The winner of the decathalon is usually considered 'the best all-around athlete in the world.' Ten very different events. Running, jumping, throwing, etc etc.
Phelps' eight golds are, of course, historic. I was happy to watch that bit of history as it was made. Kinda like watching the first man on the moon.
Bolt is whole 'nother story. While all of Phelps' races were very close, Bolt won his by such incredibly big margins that he does seem superhuman. (And I'm sure they give drug tests to all medalists, don't they?) Bolt's win in the 100m was mind-boggling, with his cruising and clowning for the last 20 meters. He shouldn't have done that, of course, and should've been more professional and waited until he crossed the line. But still, for 20% of the race he was goofing off and still whipped the rest of the best in the world. Stunning!
Force me to choose who's best and my answer will be Clay/Phelps/Bolt tie for it.

[miltk]

Bolt won the 100 and 200 in WR time. "Video game time" in the 100 according to Bolden:). The 200 is monumental: look at it this way,,,here's the wr's up until Bolt. I think Tommie Smith held the record in the later 60's at 19.9something. Then Mennea came along a decade later with a 19.72. SEVENTEEN YEARS later Johnson pops a 19.66 followed by his incredible 19.32. Looking at the sequence tells you why Bolden was awestruck when he said he never thought he'd see the 200 broken in his lifetime. In one fell swoop Johnson chopped .4 seconds off the WR! Even today, it's considered a great time if you even break 20.00 seconds, and most run it still in the very high 19's if they do. So Bolt broke the "unbreakable".

My heart favors the david and goliath story in softball as well because there's simply something exciting and unexpected about those moments. Russia beating the US in basketball,,,,the US beating Russia in hockey,,,,and Ueno's feat. And as they say, "that's why they play the game".

A decathlete win is always big and that's why they're crowned world's greatest athlete,,,but Clay didn't grab the spotlight like the others.

[miltk]

I don't think it's fair to make a comparison and choose who is "best" because there are too many variables. Apples and oranges.
The winner of the decathalon is usually considered 'the best all-around athlete in the world.' Ten very different events. Running, jumping, throwing, etc etc.
Phelps' eight golds are, of course, historic. I was happy to watch that bit of history as it was made. Kinda like watching the first man on the moon.
Bolt is whole 'nother story. While all of Phelps' races were very close, Bolt won his by such incredibly big margins that he does seem superhuman. (And I'm sure they give drug tests to all medalists, don't they?) Bolt's win in the 100m was mind-boggling, with his cruising and clowning for the last 20 meters. He shouldn't have done that, of course, and should've been more professional and waited until he crossed the line. But still, for 20% of the race he was goofing off and still whipped the rest of the best in the world. Stunning!
Force me to choose who's best and my answer will be Clay/Phelps/Bolt tie for it.

That's why you choose with your HEART :)

[Frankie's Market]

A decathlete win is always big and that's why they're crowned world's greatest athlete,,,but Clay didn't grab the spotlight like the others.

When it comes to Olympic decathlon champions, the amount of attention and recognition they get depends on what's going on in the rest of the games. Jim Thorpe (1912), Bob Mathias (1948 & '52), and Bruce Jenner (1976) become the media darlings when no other athlete in the different sports put on dominating performances.

But in other Olympiads, the story is different. When Glenn Morris won the decathlon in 1936, his success was overshadowed by Jesse Owens. Same thing with Daley Thompson, when his 2nd consecutive decathlon gold medal in '84 played second fiddle to Carl Lewis' accomplishments. And in 1996, Dan O'Brien's decathlon gold wasn't enough to displace Michael Johnson from being at the center of everyone's attention.

The psychology is,.... the media covering the Olympics is more fascinated and enamoured with world record times than they are with decathlon points. It may not be fair, but that's just how it is. I wish all the best for Bryan Clay, but in terms of media exposure and endorsement dollars, he will come out well behind Michael Phelps.

[localmoco]

While all of Phelps' races were very close, Bolt won his by such incredibly big margins that he does seem superhuman.

Not really. Phelps won by small margins in his weakest events (but he was still breaking records). He absolutely crushed the field in his best events. And he probably wasn't going 100% because he had to conserve energy for the 17 races he had on his program.

Bolt is a sprint specialist (like Jason Lezak or Gary Hall in swimming). Phelps dominates in his specialties and still wins in his weaker events. I would like to see if Bolt could do the same in the 110 hurdles or the long jump. Actually, I think Carl Lewis would be a better track analogy to Phelps. He was both a sprinter and a jumper.

[miltk]

When it comes to Olympic decathlon champions, the amount of attention and recognition they get depends on what's going on in the rest of the games. Jim Thorpe (1912), Bob Mathias (1948 & '52), and Bruce Jenner (1976) become the media darlings when no other athlete in the different sports put on dominating performances.



The psychology is,.... the media covering the Olympics is more fascinated and enamoured with world record times than they are with decathlon points. It may not be fair, but that's just how it is. I wish all the best for Bryan Clay, but in terms of media exposure and endorsement dollars, he will come out well behind Michael Phelps.

It's harder to fathom what "good" is in the decathlon points, but but understanding that 9.30 is better than 9.32 is easy.

I don't know how T&F gets treated in other countries but you can bet it's way better than the states. At least double the coverage we get. So the decathletes may be getting their due overseas. NBC and ABC before it provided ALL the video for the Olympics so it's all a matter of what they want to show,,,and clearly it's "Martha" and "Ellen" here in the states.

[Frankie's Market]

Many will say Phelps is the athlete of the 2008 Olympics....but Phelps was somewhat expected to take home 8 and he had god on his side in two events. (http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlete=817/bio/index.html)

I say Bolt nipping Japan's Ueno by a whisker. Bolt is an obvious choice,,,,two golds two world shattering records , including one(the 200) that many thought was unbreakable for a long long long time.

I don't buy into the thinking that an Olympic champion who brings home the gold when he/she is expected to win is somehow a lesser accomplishment than an underdog who surprises the world by coming out on top. To me, it's simple: a gold medal is a gold medal. Both are significant accomplishments. Whether it's the underdog who's had to overcome the skepticism and doubt from everyone else, or the heavily favored champion who's had to handle the tremendous pressure and expectations of an entire country.

But Yukiko Ueno did something unexpected and remarkable,,,,she beat the USA softball team. For those who may not know, the US softball team was akin to the US baskeball team,,,,an unbeatable juggernaut,,,the May/Walsh of softball,,,,the China of diving and table tennis. The US domination is one reason given why softball will no longer be in the olympics. the US won by a total run production of 50+ to 1 in Athens, and in Beijing they outscored their opponents by 57 to 2,,,,until Japan in the final.

Ueno pitched every pitch of every inning in every game I believe, and in the last two days she pitched 28 innings in three games,,,21 yesterday and 7 in the final(the games are 7 innings). She did the unimaginable,,,the unexpected,,,,better than Phelps but not as good as Bolt, imo.

Japan's victory over the US in softball reminds me of the 1980 Miracle On Ice, when a very young team of American-born college hockey players shocked the veteran USSR team that had won the previous 4 gold medals. This was the same Soviet team that had actually beaten an all-star NHL squad 2 games out of 3 the year before. But lo and behold, Team USA played the game of their lives against the Soviets and pulled out a come-from-behind victory that shocked the world.

Of course, the significance of the Miracle On Ice went way beyond being a simple upset in hockey. The US-USSR was then engaged in the Cold War. The Soviets' invasion of Afghanistan created international tensions. The morale in the US was low, with the Iranian hostage situation and a poor economy. So when the Americans faced off against the Soviets at Lake Placid, there was a lot of nationalistic and political elements involved. It is these extraneous elements that, I think, made the Miracle On Ice an indelible memory for those who witnessed it. When you mention 1980 and Lake Placid, Americans will usually think "Team USA winning the gold in hockey" first before thinking of Eric Heiden winning 5 gold medals in speed skating.

In comparison, I don't think there is the same kind of nationalistic rivalry between the US and Japan, as there was between the US and USSR. But for the moment, the Japanese softball women are bigtime heroes in their home country. And their gold medal win does take some of the sting out of the Japanese baseball team's disappointing performance in Beijing.

[Walkoff Balk]

Former pro baseball player John Kruk like to joke that he's not an athlete, he played baseball. He was a handful of baseball players who can play with a soft belly showing. But, you have to give credit to Ueno for single handily beating the most dominate team in their sport. She had a bionic arm and looked like a male anime hero. Jenny Finch showed that a pretty face can be a dominate softball pitcher.