Who should be McCain's VP?

[Vanguard]

Now it's the other guy's turn!

[Adri]

Well, if what the vocal Hillary supporters are saying is true, then McCain no need pick Hillary. He's already got their votes. Linda Lingle is a VP contender? :p Maybe McCain should surprise everyone and go for Jeb Bush.

[Frankie's Market]

Hillary Clinton, riiiight! :rolleyes:

Too bad this poll doesn't include the names of the female candidates who do have a serious chance at being considered. They would include:

Sarah Palin (Alaska governor)
Kay Bailey Hutchison (Texas Senator)

And of course, a few months ago, former HP CEO Carly Fiorina was enthusiastically talked up by some factions in the GOP as being a candidate who could shore up McCain on the economic front, while appealing to women voters. But Fiorina doomed her own chances by going off-message several times, including an occasion where McCain was put in the awkward situation of commenting on Fiorina's criticism of health insurance companies covering Viagra, but not birth control.

[timkona]

Let's not forget about Condi Rice. In the big picture, she is by far the smartest person on Capitol Hill. And that point is irrefutable.

I'm a big fan of Rudy Giuliani. He's a tough sumbeetch. We must remember that we are in a war, no matter how ignorant the motive. Truth is the Crusades started over 1000 years ago. As long as Islam harbors a militaristic, homicidal motive, we will never be able to sleep peacefully.

McCain has a host of reasonably good choices.

[Adri]

Let's not forget about Condi Rice. In the big picture, she is by far the smartest person on Capitol Hill. And that point is irrefutable.

Except that Rice has consistently said she's not interested in President or Vice President. But I do agree that she would be a good republican choice.

[Frankie's Market]

Let's not forget about Condi Rice. In the big picture, she is by far the smartest person on Capitol Hill. And that point is irrefutable.

Oh, choosing Rice would make the Obama/Biden team leap for joy! If that choice is ever made, you're never going to hear the end of Democrats saying that voting for McCain/Rice is like a voting for a 3rd term for Bush/Cheney. From then until November, the Dems will be running commercials of Bush with McCain and Bush with Rice.

Damn, Tim. If only you were McCain's senior advisor. :rolleyes:

I'm a big fan of Rudy Giuliani. He's a tough sumbeetch. We must remember that we are in a war, no matter how ignorant the motive. Truth is the Crusades started over 1000 years ago. As long as Islam harbors a militaristic, homicidal motive, we will never be able to sleep peacefully.

The thing that works against Giuliani is pretty much the same thing that works against Tom Ridge. Rudy is pro-choice. Now, McCain enjoyed a bounce in the polls after that quasi-debate with Obama in Pastor Rick Warren's church. But a big part of McCain's success there was his simple, straightforward response to the issue of abortion. While Obama went into a complex and intellectual-sounding shpiel when asked about the topic, McCain hit homeruns with the evangelicals with his direct, no-nonsense answers that made clear that he not only held a pro-life view, but that he was passionate about it. I believe that many of the evangelicals who were formerly unsure of McCain were impressed with the soundbites they heard from the Arizona senator that night and raised his numbers from the low 40s to the mid 40s in many of the daily tracking polls.

But will McCain be able to keep the support of those evangelicals if his pro-life stance becomes muddled by picking pro-choice candidates to be his running mate? It's a gamble. Frankly speaking, if it wasn't for the abortion issue, I think Tom Ridge would have been a slam dunk choice for McCain, moreso than Giuliani. Ridge is a popular former governor of Pennsylvania, which is a battleground state. (Very doubtful that Rudy will be able to deliver NY to the GOP this year.) Ridge, of course, also has national security credentials as the first Secretary of Homeland Security. And finally, Ridge and McCain are good friends who get along very well on a personal basis.

Ah, but he's pro-choice. And that alone will probably take Ridge out of the running.

McCain has a host of reasonably good choices.

Out of the remaining finalists, it is said that Tim Pawlenty is the one that gets on best with McCain. But with Biden on the Dem's ticket, the Minnesota governor could be in over his head in a VP debate.

That pretty much leaves Mitt Romney as the prime favorite. A McCain/Romney pairing is like shotgun marriage, for sure. But does McCain have any other choice? He's pro-life (although his Mormon background might be problematic for some evangelicals). He has the economic credentials. He could possibly help carry the state of Michigan (Romney's father was the former governor there).

[Ron Whitfield]

We're at 'war' only because Bush & Cheney say we are.
We're actually in the midst of another contrived bunch of republican BS.
But, for the troops fighting it out, it doesn't matter what you call it, because it sucks!

Guiliani ain't tough, he's just a beech, and would immediately change from everything he's ever truly believed in to get a shot at the White House. The guy is probably the only person in America who would actually be worse than the crap we have in there now, and sadly there are all too many who would jump at the chance to vote these two infected monkeys in. Rice too, and throw Hillary in as well. You know ol' Bill would be only too happy to get back in the mix any way he could.

McCreep would be an even bigger fool if he doesn't pick Romney.
Nobody comes close to the 'ooooh, he's looks so Presidential' image he projects.

[Walkoff Balk]

Will McCain pick someone young looking? Will that only bring out how old McCain looks standing next to that person.

[sansei]

:o hi this is sansei and i'd pick mitt romney is he's the best choice like Our Current VP Cheney and he has qualification's like When cheney was elected with Bush and i think Mccain would be a good president like Romney would be like Current Vp Cheney,may anyone agree?

Well thank's for your time:O) Ps:Im Voting for Mccain.

[Kalihiboy]

The Log Cabin Republicans would be happy with Rudy G. But I dont think you can put a pro-life and pro-choice team together on the same ticket.

Sarah Palin is a brand new mom, I doubt she would accept the VP ticket, maybe in a few years.

To help McCain out on economic issues, Romney would be a good choice. However, his choice of religion might cause a problem with voters.

Is Romney loved in Massachusetts still? The state almost always votes Democrat, heck even George McGovern carried the state in 1972 when he couldnt even carry his own home state.

Aj

[TuNnL]

I picked “Other” since Ron Paul wasn’t one of the choices. I figure if Timkona can clutch on to a candidate that goes against (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=201052&postcount=109) everything McCain stands for, why can’t I? At least mine has a clear idea (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8) on what it will take to shore up the value of the U.S. dollar and eliminate our federal debt and trade deficit — before it’s too late. McCain has to do something radical between now and November if he wants to win back his conservative base. Britney Spears, Paris Hilton and Moses have had some success in closing the gap, but only because Obama was eating shave ice and bodysurfing for a week.

[timkona]

I would also choose Colin Powell. Very good leader who was miffed when he left the Bush Cab.

[Frankie's Market]

I would also choose Colin Powell. Very good leader who was miffed when he left the Bush Cab.

Well then McCain had better hurry and do so before he endorses Barack. :D

[Random]

Hillary Clinton, riiiight! :rolleyes:
Why not? It would make this year's election ver-ry in-te-res-ting. ;)

[Vanguard]

Speculation about Pawlenty (http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDI5NzUzMGJiMmZmOGNiNjc2YTIzMjZjOGEyMDNiYjE=) ...

And Romney! (http://www.rollcall.com/news/27733-1.html)

[matapule]

It's Sarah Palin (44) as McCain's choice, Miss Congeniality in the Miss Alaska Beauty Pageant. Married to a full blooded Eskimo. Mother of five, including a 4 month old with Downs Syndrome. Political experience: Mayor of a town of 8000. Governor of Alaska for 2 years. International or Federal experience....0. Her sister is involved in a nasty divorce with an Alaska state trooper. Palin had him fired from his job as a result.

McCain has shown real insight, decisiveness, and savvy in this courageous choice.....NOT! McCain has proven he is in the early stages of Alzheimer's. Ohhhhh.....this campaign is going to be good, real good!

[Random]

McCain has shown real insight, decisiveness, and savvy in this courageous choice.....NOT! McCain has proven he is in the early stages of Alzheimer's. Ohhhhh.....this campaign is going to be good, real good!
So, McCain chose a governor from a noncontinental US. And Linda Lingle was so close! ;)

So, what is wrong with Sarah Palin?

[Leo Lakio]

It's Sarah Palin (44) as McCain's choicePerhaps a ploy to get the Clinton supporters who have threatened to jump to McCain to follow through, by putting a woman in as VP? (In her speech this morning, she referred to Clinton's "18 million cracks in the glass ceiling.") Since there's a chance she'd outlive McCain and inherit the office that way, there are certainly voters who would go along with that plan.

So much for McCain's campaign arguing about Obama's "lack of experience" - Palin's lacking it as well. But she's been a harder-line conservative than McCain, so she'll appeal to those members of the GOP.

[scrivener]

McCain has shown real insight, decisiveness, and savvy in this courageous choice.....NOT! McCain has proven he is in the early stages of Alzheimer's. Ohhhhh.....this campaign is going to be good, real good!
That crack about Alzheimer's disease indicates to me that you, at least, should then be getting the campaign you deserve.

[Leo Lakio]

Sen. Obama's speech was moved to a larger venue (Invesco Field, Denver CO) to accomodate 84,000 people - many more who wanted to attend were unable to get in.

Sen. McCain's announcement was in a venue that holds about 12,000 (Nutter Center, Dayton OH) - they had plenty of free tickets to spare. Sen. Obama was able to pack the same space back in February for a rally.

[Ninja]

It's Sarah Palin (44) as McCain's choice, Miss Congeniality in the Miss Alaska Beauty Pageant. Married to a full blooded Eskimo. Mother of five, including a 4 month old with Downs Syndrome. Political experience: Mayor of a town of 8000. Governor of Alaska for 2 years. International or Federal experience....0. Her sister is involved in a nasty divorce with an Alaska state trooper. Palin had him fired from his job as a result.

McCain has shown real insight, decisiveness, and savvy in this courageous choice.....NOT! McCain has proven he is in the early stages of Alzheimer's. Ohhhhh.....this campaign is going to be good, real good!

and she's HOT!!!! yah baby! :D

[matapule]

Corrections to her background as the story unfolds. Her husband is only part Eskimo. She was Mayor of a town of 6500. She fired the State Commissioner when he refused to fire her brother-in-law as a State Trooper.

One Republican strategist said, "She is head of the Alaska National Guard and she is the mother of a son in the military. That is the kind of experience we need to lead the Nation."

Another Republican strategist said, "We need someone in the Whitehouse who isn't afraid to eat a mooseburger."

[matapule]

Perhaps a ploy to get the Clinton supporters who have threatened to jump to McCain to follow through, by putting a woman in as VP?

I suppose that's the strategy. But the problem is that Clinton is pro-choice, Palin is ardently anti-abortion. That presents an ethical conumdrum for Clinton supporters.

I still think that Obama will announce a significant political appointment for Hillary prior to the election (Secretary of State or Supreme Court?).

[TuNnL]

So, what is wrong with Sarah Palin?Don’t get me wrong, all of the criticisms identified by matapule are valid concerns. But IMHO, it’s not so much as what is wrong with Sarah Palin, it’s the fact that she’s from a state that few people hear about except news of their senior Sen. Ted Stevens. You know, the guy who’s been in the U.S. Senate nearly as long as Sen. Dan Inouye (which makes him pretty f*#king senior). Stevens, in case you hadn’t heard is currently embroiled (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIFF00DjwVw_yFN4MkHDk3-mC9bQD92RTB6G0) in a messy scandal in which the FBI and IRS have raided his home. The Justice Department is also investigating whether Stevens steered million$ of dollars in federal contracts to his former aides. Suffice to say, Stevens will be standing trial next month, and I would be shocked if any political party besides the GOP didn’t jump all over this opportunity to hammer McCain’s choice. :eek:

[Leo Lakio]

But the problem is that Clinton is pro-choice, Palin is ardently anti-abortion. That presents an ethical conumdrum for Clinton supporters.If those Clinton supporters are so angry with the Democratic Party that they are honestly willing to support McCain over Obama, this will not stand in their way.
she’s from a state that few people hear about except news of their senior Sen. Ted Stevens. You know, the guy who’s been in the U.S. Senate nearly as long as Sen. Dan Inouye (which makes him pretty f*#king senior). Stevens, in case you hadn’t heard is currently embroiled (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIFF00DjwVw_yFN4MkHDk3-mC9bQD92RTB6G0) in a messy scandal in which the FBI and IRS have raided his home. The Justice Department is also investigating whether Stevens steered million$ of dollars in federal contracts to his former aides.He didn't even go to Dayton for the McCain/Palin announcement this morning.

[matapule]

Suffice to say, Stevens will be standing trial next month, and I would be shocked if any political party besides the GOP didn’t jump all over this opportunity to hammer McCain’s choice.

In defense of Palin (there are many things I do admire about her) she has been critical of both Republicans, Stevens and representative Young in a very public way, calling for their resignations.

What I question is her qualifications to be VP.....a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

If you follow the news today, Palin is contradicting and tripping all over herself trying to explain her firing the State Commissioner of Public Safety and firing of her former brother-in-law, a State trooper.

Today on Faux News, a Republican pundit said, "Palin has lots of experience in International Policy, her State is right up there next to Russia."

[matapule]

McCain has a host of reasonably good choices.

Was Palin a reasonably good choice?

[Kelly0040]

Picked simply for hype.

[Ninja]

She's not as politically inexperienced as people may think.

(1992-1996)2 time council member in Wasilla, AK(Anchorage Exurb)
(1996-2002)2 term Mayor of Wasilla, AK
(2002) Failed bid for Lt. Governor
(2003-2004)Commissioner Alaska OGCC(Energy Commission)Appointed
(2006-Present)Governor of Alaska

So she's been in politics 5 years longer than Obama, has served in 3 different levels of politics as well as a bureaucrat, and has dealt with defeat.

[Kalihiboy]

She doesn't think the VP job is very "productive" and doesn't even know what the job duties are. Hopefully for her case, she's been briefed and educated since she made these statements:

http://news.yahoo.com/story/politico/12969;_ylt=AktCzihqi3zZRbKJSCapiEBh24cA

Aj

[Leo Lakio]

she has been critical of both Republicans, Stevens and representative Young in a very public way, calling for their resignations.Ah. Thank you for that detail; it explains this:He didn't even go to Dayton for the McCain/Palin announcement this morning.

[Ninja]

She doesn't think the VP job is very "productive" and doesn't even know what the job duties are. Hopefully for her case, she's been briefed and educated since she made these statements:

http://news.yahoo.com/story/politico/12969;_ylt=AktCzihqi3zZRbKJSCapiEBh24cA

Aj

Nice way to twist words by the authors.

From the Interview:
Palin replied: “As for that VP talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I’m used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we’re trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question.”

[Kalihiboy]

In post #10, I said Palin wouldnt take the job now being a brand new mom, guess I was wrong. You would think a mother of 5, especially having a baby with more special needs than most, would want to stay close to her home base. I guess not! So much for GOP family values. :rolleyes:

As for this pick being a possible pick for women who were for Hillary, (are upset at Obama and would side with Palin), a major issue in that will be the abortion issue. I think with Palin being pro-life, those Hillary backers may flee to Obama. Also, McCain may appoint Supreme Court judges who have a pro life stance, another issue that will be looked at when voting.

I think McCain would have been better served by picking Ridge or Romney.

Clearly the ticket on both sides in terms of trying to draw in electoral votes for their home states won't be much of a factor when you consider Arizona, Alaska, Delaware and Illinois have 37 combined votes!! :eek:

Aj

[Kalihiboy]

I didn't twist the words, read the article's first 3 sentences. I'm just going by with what the writer said.

Aj

[Leo Lakio]

Clearly the ticket on both sides in terms of trying to draw in electoral votes for their home states won't be much of a factor when you consider ArizonaI wonder if the "Arizona curse" will continue with this election. The four viable presidential candidates fielded by this state in the past five decades have all been unsuccessful: Barry Goldwater, Mo Udall, Bruce Babbitt ... will John McCain see his name on this list?

[Ninja]

Sorry Aj,

I should have clarified that it was the article not you that I deemed to be twisting the words.

Charles

[Ron Whitfield]

As it stands, this is a giant loser of a ticket for the republicans.
Is this really the best they can put up?

I predict Ms. Palin will ultimately not remain as the VP mate, and that Romney will factor significantly in this race, quite possibly in place of even JMc.

[Kalihiboy]

Ah yes, AZ politics where do I begin...I went to high school with Barry Goldwater's grandchildren, in fact Barry spoke at HS graduation. I always had respect for him, but never followed his politics. He clearly ushered into America a new wave of conservative politics in 1964 that in some ways continue to this day.

As for McCain, his first shot at politics, his career boost was helped funded greatly by Charles Keating. My stepdad's mother lost her retirement and savings thanks to Keating's phony Savings and Loan chicanery during the early 90's. Keating ended up serving 5 years in jail. McCain was involved in the Keating 5 with the other AZ Senator Dennis DeConcini as well as 3 other Democrats. Was familiar at one time with the Babbitt and Udall family. People make comments about Hawaii politics, they havent seen anything yet when they study Arizona politics, I lived thru the impeachment of two Arizona Governors in less than 5 years. My mom helped handle the budget for the state of AZ and had to deliver the state budget on the governor's desk, I remember how busy the end of June was when the fiscal year had ended.

I remember Mo Udall's courageous battle with Parkinson's disease and how quickly it overtook him, it was the first time I had seen the effects of it and I recall how much Udall towered over me (he was a former basketball player)
when I got to meet him when he came to our school.

My best friends in high school were former AZ Governor and Senator Paul Fannin's grandkids, went to high school and college with them and remain close to this day. Fannin lived well into his 90's and I learned alot about AZ politics and politics in general from him. I was at the house (former Governor's mansion) almost every day and would sometimes pick up the phone to say hello and a guy named "Dick" would call every now and then, last name Nixon.

As for Palin's experience, geeze Linda Lingle has more experience than her.
Why didnt he pick her?

Aj

[Kalihiboy]

Sorry Aj,

I should have clarified that it was the article not you that I deemed to be twisting the words.

Charles

No problem Charles!

Aj

[Leo Lakio]

Fascinating AZ stories, Aj - thanks for sharing 'em.

[matapule]

She's not as politically inexperienced as people may think.

(1992-1996)2 time council member in Wasilla, AK(Anchorage Exurb)
(1996-2002)2 term Mayor of Wasilla, AK
(2002) Failed bid for Lt. Governor
(2003-2004)Commissioner Alaska OGCC(Energy Commission)Appointed
(2006-Present)Governor of Alaska

So she's been in politics 5 years longer than Obama, has served in 3 different levels of politics as well as a bureaucrat, and has dealt with defeat.

You're being facetious, right? 10 of her 12 years of elected experience has been on the Wasilla (pop. 6500) City Council.

Obama is short on experience too, that's why he picked a winner in the person of Biden.

[Kalihiboy]

Fascinating AZ stories, Aj - thanks for sharing 'em.

I should have said Barry Goldwater's "grandchildren"!! Not his children, I'm not that old!! Anna Goldwater, his granddaughter, was one year older than I was. I know shortly after Barry's wife died, he remarried a lady who was about 20 years younger and a waitress I think. His children were not pleased.

I could tell you some interesting stories about Illinois politics too with the Daley's and Jesse Jackson, whom I used to play with his children when I was a kid.

Aj

[matapule]

As it stands, this is a giant loser of a ticket for the republicans.
Is this really the best they can put up?

This is indeed a puzzling and perplexing choice for VP. I bet there are many in the Republican hierarchy who are tearing their hair out right now.

I predict Ms. Palin will ultimately not remain as the VP mate, and that Romney will factor significantly in this race, quite possibly in place of even JMc.

Now THAT is an interesting statement. Maybe I should pay closer attention to the GOP convention!

[Frankie's Market]

Well now, yet another poll where an unnamed darkhorse gets the nod. Ya gotta love it. And remember folks, this is the second HT thread where I mentioned Sarah Palin's name first. ;)

Several initial comments on Sen. McCain's veep choice:

1) I have to disagree with Leo and concur with Aj. The abortion issue can be very important and is one of those hot-button items that can ultimately decide the vote for many women. Especially for older women who have been around long enough to recall what life was like before Roe vs. Wade. Before that landmark Supreme Court decision, a pregnant woman who did not want to give birth was in a very precarious, frightening, and potentially dangerous situation by seeking abortion in one of those infamous back-door clinics. I'm sure those women do not want their own daughters and grand-daughters to go through that traumatic experience. So if McCain has ideas that pro-life Gov. Palin will sweep up the millions of women who voted for Hillary Clinton, he could be in a for a rude slap from reality.

2) Haven't we seen this "me too" kind of pandering from the Republicans before? Barack Obama made his first national splash by receiving the Democratic nomination to be an Illinois Senator in 2004. So who does the GOP select to oppose him? Another Black candidate, Alan Keyes. And while Keyes had a credible resume to back his candidacy (experience as former UN ambassador), there was no getting around the fact that the Republicans picked a carpetbagger who had never lived in Illinois. Little wonder that many observers cynically viewed Keyes as being the best available Black candidate that the GOP could offer up in challenge to Obama. No surprise that in the general election, Keyes was easily steamrolled. Are the Republicans making the same kind of mistake again, trying to pander to voters who they think will vote for a woman, no matter who she is and what her background/politics are?

3) It was very telling that when Palin was officially announced this morning, some GOP officials and strategists seemed to be at a loss for words when asked for their thoughts. The concern here is not only that Gov. Palin is a relative unknown on the national scene, but that her selection has seemingly come out of left field and that she may not have been adequately vetted. Already, the media has turned their attention to a possible ethical violation that is now being investigated in the state of Alaska.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/palin-ethics-investigation/

OTOH though, you have to give the McCain campaign some credit. If ever it was a good time to make this announcement, today was the day as it is taking much of the TV news airtime away from Obama's historic speech. And with this choice, McCain has really shaken things up in the presidential race. Whether it ultimately works out to his favor or not remains to be seen.

[scrivener]

I still think that Obama will announce a significant political appointment for Hillary prior to the election (Secretary of State or Supreme Court?).
Announcing appointments before the election? That's got Dewey Defeats Truman written ALL OVER it. No way does Obama start giving out positions before he's at least the President-elect.

[Random]

As for Palin's experience, geeze Linda Lingle has more experience than her.
Why didnt he pick her?
See Post #21 on this thread.

No offense to Linda Lingle.

[Ninja]

You're being facetious, right? 10 of her 12 years of elected experience has been on the Wasilla (pop. 6500) City Council.

Obama is short on experience too, that's why he picked a winner in the person of Biden.

You have to start somewhere, not everyone gets handpicked for a Senate gig.
Despite all this talk or her being "unknown" appeared on CNBC and Glenn Beck's show months ago questioned about the VP position, so people have had an eye on her despite being from Alaska.

[Spin Dr.]

Just an observation: I find it interesting that some people seem to be people concerned with Palin's perceived lack of experience and being "one heartbeat from the Presidency," but have no problem with Obama's lack of experience running for the Presidency.

[Ninja]

See Post #21 on this thread.

No offense to Linda Lingle.


Damn straight!
:D

http://www.parentdish.com/photos/alaska-governor-sarah-palin/690775/

[Leo Lakio]

so people have had an eye on her despite being from Alaska.As Frankie's Market noted - kudos for his having mentioned her, twice, before anyone else on HT.

I stand by my assessment from earlier - personally, I'm astounded that anyone who was once a supporter of Sen. Clinton could even think of jumping ship to vote for Sen. McCain - but there are many voters who are still saying that. If they can actually close their eyes to his record, his statements, and his party's platform, then come Election Day, they will even be able to swallow hard and close themselves off from such a hot-button topic as abortion.
Just an observation: I find it interesting that some people seem to be people concerned with Palin's perceived lack of experience and being "one heartbeat from the Presidency," but have no problem with Obama's lack of experience running for the Presidency.See the second paragraph from post #18 in this thread.

[Ron Whitfield]

No, it's just more like 'what a pathetic ticket'.

This will be news for a long time.

[Frankie's Market]

Just an observation: I find it interesting that some people seem to be people concerned with Palin's perceived lack of experience and being "one heartbeat from the Presidency," but have no problem with Obama's lack of experience running for the Presidency.

A legitimate observation. And here's my response:

Sen. Obama has been in the national spotlight since his momentous victory in the Iowa Democratic Caucus in January. He's been in scores of presidential debates. And voters have had a chance to get to know his background and to be comfortable with him, despite his relatively brief political career.

Gov. Palin? She gets into the national spotlight,.... today. She has 65 days to tell the nation abour her story and to establish her credentials before general election day. That's not a whole lot of time to re-assure voters who are just getting to know her.

So that's the way I see it. Both may be relatively inexperienced. But since Obama has been in the limelight seven months longer than Palin during this presidential campaign, it works out in his favor.

[LikaNui]

I too am stunned by the choice of Palin and think it's a death-knell for McCain's campaign. The "heartbeat away from the Presidency" issue worries me a lot, especially since today is McCain's 72nd birthday and he's known to be in poor health. What happens if he wins and then dies the day after the inauguration? :eek: That's an extremely scary scenario!
What I'd love to see would be some debates between Biden and Palin. What a massacre! :p
Bottom line for me is that McCain failed drastically in his very first major decision.

[Random]

I stand by my assessment from earlier - personally, I'm astounded that anyone who was once a supporter of Sen. Clinton could even think of jumping ship to vote for Sen. McCain - but there are many voters who are still saying that. If they can actually close their eyes to his record, his statements, and his party's platform, then come Election Day, they will even be able to swallow hard and close themselves off from such a hot-button topic as abortion.
It's possible, to have a Republican President but a Democrat-controlled Congress willing to override his veto on any abortion bill.

[Leo Lakio]

Sen. Obama has been in the national spotlight since his momentous victory in the Iowa Democratic Caucus in January. He's been in scores of presidential debates. And voters have had a chance to get to know his background and to be comfortable with him, despite his relatively brief political career.Not to mention that he drew much favorable attention for his keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in 2004.What I'd love to see would be some debates between Biden and Palin. What a massacre! :pOctober 2, Washington University, St. Louis, MO Info here (http://news-info.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/12012.html).

[Random]

I too am stunned by the choice of Palin and think it's a death-knell for McCain's campaign. The "heartbeat away from the Presidency" issue worries me a lot, especially since today is McCain's 72nd birthday and he's known to be in poor health. What happens if he wins and then dies the day after the inauguration? :eek: That's an extremely scary scenario!
What I'd love to see would be some debates between Biden and Palin. What a massacre! :p
Bottom line for me is that McCain failed drastically in his very first major decision.
Kinda like watching Commander in Chief (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0429455/) only in real life.

For the record, I like the short-lived series.

[Ninja]

I too am stunned by the choice of Palin and think it's a death-knell for McCain's campaign. The "heartbeat away from the Presidency" issue worries me a lot, especially since today is McCain's 72nd birthday and he's known to be in poor health. What happens if he wins and then dies the day after the inauguration? :eek: That's an extremely scary scenario!
What I'd love to see would be some debates between Biden and Palin. What a massacre! :p
Bottom line for me is that McCain failed drastically in his very first major decision.

That argument has been done before and went nowhere?

Ronald Reagan....too old.
Dan Quayle....not experienced, not intelligent.

If McCain did pass away while in office she do what Obama is doing now, pick a VP who is a long in the tooth political retread to balance the inexperience of the leader. :)

[MyopicJoe]

A hilarious pic from this madogre.com:

http://www.madogre.com/images/Palin3.jpg



Hillary must be stewing:

http://www.madogre.com/images/Palin1.jpg

[Mike_Lowery]

She's hot as balls. Where's my gun, I'm goin' cougar huntin'.

[MyopicJoe]

She's hot as balls. Where's my gun, I'm goin' cougar huntin'.

She's an avid hunter too. She'd probably bag you first!

[Frankie's Market]

That argument has been done before and went nowhere?

Ronald Reagan....too old.

Reagan was 69 when he was first elected. The knock on his age back in 1980 wasn't that he was too old to run for president, but the concern that he would be too old to run for a second term in 1984. With McCain, people are saying that he's too old NOW, let alone run for a second term when he turns 76.

Another important difference. Reagan came into office with a clean bill of health. No previous scrapes with cancer. (Although he eventually had surgical procedures to remove some cancerous growth during his second term in office.)

McCain had a bout with melanoma. He's okay now, but there's always a chance that it could recur with no warning.

And in case you didn't know, melanoma can be fatal.

Dan Quayle....not experienced, not intelligent.

Bush 41 won in 1988,.... despite having Quayle on the ticket, not because of it.

Unfortunately for the neocons in 2008, the opponent is not an uncharismatic Michael Dukakis. Unlike 1988, the GOP is not riding on the coattails of a popular outgoing president. Unlike Bush 41, McCain simply did not have the luxury of weighing down his ticket.

[Ninja]

http://www.madogre.com/images/Palin1.jpg


If she wears that outfit I don't think she'll have any problem dealing with Vlad Putin. :D

[buzz1941]

Not the best choice of verbs:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff22/Buzz1941/taps.jpg

[Leo Lakio]

Not the best choice of verbs:Please. No comments about "offshore drilling."

[Vanguard]

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1899/mccainpalinhj9.jpg

[Frankie's Market]

Not the best choice of verbs:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff22/Buzz1941/taps.jpg

Exactly which verbs are we talkin' about? :D

Unlike many other pundits, Jack Cafferty didn't hold back what was on his mind. He called McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as he saw it. A gimmick. Pandering to disgruntled Hillary supporters. And how can you argue otherwise when McCain had only met Palin twice previously before today's announcement in Dayton, Ohio? How can you say this pairing makes sense when it is revealed that Palin has zero foreign policy experience and that she stumbled on trying to articulate John McCain's plans for Iraq just two weeks ago?

Stephen Hayes (pictured on the far right, symbolically enough) tried his best to convince viewers of how the Palin selection was a bold and brilliant move. But as knowledgeable as he is, Hayes simply didn't have much in the way of substance to counter any of Cafferty's arguments today.

This is looking more and more like another J. Danforth Quayle moment for the Republicans.

[sansei]

:o hi this is sansei and i like mccain's pick of Vp palin who would be a good Vp is she share's the same views of mccain and with her as his running mate,it make's me:O)

Since im not a Democrat,i'd vote for mccain and palin is they are the best for the presidency and palin as his running mate.

well thank's for your time:o they have my vote.

[tutusue]

Oh, Vanguard...
Ummm...
Errr...
BWAHAHAHA! :D

[LikaNui]

Oh, Vanguard... Ummm... Errr... BWAHAHAHA! :D Couldn't have said it better myself. Fuuuuunny, Vanguard! :p

Anyway. I just found something interesting on this link at CNN (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/) about McCain's lack of discussions with Palin:
(CNN) — John McCain first met Sarah Palin only six months ago and had just one conversation with the Alaska governor before offering her the vice presidential slot on the Republican ticket, the Arizona senator's campaign said Friday.
The move appears to be a marked departure for McCain — a man known for his tendency to surround himself with a close circle of advisers and politicians he has long felt comfortable with.
But according to the McCain campaign, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee first met Palin in Washington at a February 2008National Governors Association meeting. He was immediately impressed with the 44-year-old rising GOP star, and decided to consider her for the vice presidential slot.
McCain campaign manager Rick Davis had several conversations with Palin throughout the vetting process, but McCain himself didn't speak with the Alaska governor until last Sunday — one day after Barack Obama named Joe Biden to his ticket. It was then McCain reached Palin by phone while she was at the Alaska State Fair to discuss the possibility of joining the ticket.
Palin then traveled to Flagstaff, Arizona Wednesday evening, where she met with top McCain advisers Steve Schmidt and Mark Salter. On Thursday Palin traveled to McCain's Sedona, Arizona home where the Arizona senator had another conversation with her, and formally asked her to be his running mate.


McCain "met" her six months ago but he only talked to her once, and that was just five days ago... and just that fast he wants her to be the second msot powerful person on the planet?!???? Un-freakin-believable! :eek:

[Ninja]

Unlike many other pundits, Jack Cafferty didn't hold back what was on his mind. He called McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as he saw it. A gimmick. Pandering to disgruntled Hillary supporters. And how can you argue otherwise when McCain had only met Palin twice previously before today's announcement in Dayton, Ohio? How can you say this pairing makes sense when it is revealed that Palin has zero foreign policy experience and that she stumbled on trying to articulate John McCain's plans for Iraq just two weeks ago?

Stephen Hayes (pictured on the far right, symbolically enough) tried his best to convince viewers of how the Palin selection was a bold and brilliant move. But as knowledgeable as he is, Hayes simply didn't have much in the way of substance to counter any of Cafferty's arguments today.

This is looking more and more like another J. Danforth Quayle moment for the Republicans.

Although that pick of Jack makes him look like he's asleep, Jack must have switched to the daily regimen of Cialis. Not only being riled up over Palin but tooting his own horn for CNN's big numbers for it's coverage of the DNCC. Congrats CNN, but the Net's only covered 1 hour a each a night....they are there for show, little else.

Cafferty as well as the rest of CNN's talkers(Beck, Grace, King, Dobbs) live by "hit and run" commentary.-FNC and recently MSNBC are just as guilty

Rule 1-But people on that make you look good.
Rule 2-If something goes wrong, see Rule 1.

[Ninja]

:o hi this is sansei and i like mccain's pick of Vp palin who would be a good Vp is she share's the same views of mccain and with her as his running mate,it make's me:O)

Since im not a Democrat,i'd vote for mccain and palin is they are the best for the presidency and palin as his running mate.

well thank's for your time:o they have my vote.


Dammit! Now I'm worried! :D

[turtlegirl]

Interesting articles about Palin in her home-state newspaper. Check it out - its the Juneau Empire. (http://www.juneauempire.com/) Be sure to read the comments at the end of the articles, they provide loads of insight into how the people she represents feel about her.

My opinion? Mc Cain has finally sunk himself. Thank god!

[Ron Whitfield]

...Cindy McCain had a lot to do with this choice.

[MyopicJoe]

...Cindy McCain had a lot to do with this choice.

kinky...

:D

[matapule]

McCain "met" her six months ago but he only talked to her once, and that was just five days ago... and just that fast he wants her to be the second msot powerful person on the planet?!???? Un-freakin-believable! :eek:

I know this is going to offend Scrivner, but McCain has proven that he has the early stages of Alzheimers. What is this man, who wants to be President of the United States, thinking? Friggin idiot!

[scrivener]

It does offend me. Would the same supposedly poor judgment have elicited the same diagnosis from you if McCain were, say, 40? Does poor judgment plus old age equal Alzheimer's Disease?

[matapule]

:o hi this is sansei and i like mccain's pick of Vp palin who would be a good Vp is she share's the same views of mccain and with her as his running mate,it make's me:O)

Since im not a Democrat,i'd vote for mccain and palin is they are the best for the presidency and palin as his running mate.

well thank's for your time:o they have my vote.

Well, the McCain/Palin ticket has at least one vote from the kine State of Hawai'i! Good for you Sansei, I hope you cast your vote.

Oh, by the way, McCain and Palin disagree on a number of issues, not the least of which is abortion and loyalty to the GOP.

[matapule]

It does offend me. Would the same supposedly poor judgment have elicited the same diagnosis from you if McCain were, say, 40? Does poor judgment plus old age equal Alzheimer's Disease?

No I didn't say that you did! And if the truth be known, I am probably closer to McCain's age than you are. And yes, older age and Alzheimer's is linked.

I have dealt with Alzheimer's as a care giver (both personally and professionally) longer than you have..I guarantee that. It is nothing to be trivialized. If you are a caregiver for an Alzheimer’s patient, I sympathize with you.

Reagan did suffer from Alzheimer's (dementia) in the latter years of his Presidency. It is a debilitating disease. If the Republicans would allow unfettered stem cell research, from a philosophical standpoint, maybe we could find some relief for Alzheimer’s, if not a cure.

I have watched McCain. His behavior is very puzzling. This is not the same McCain of 10 or 15 years ago...the one that I thought had something to offer for a new world order. His current behavior is very discouraging. I would have much preferred that McCain be President over the last 8 year than Bush. But at this time, McCain is not exhibiting good judgement IMO, attribute it to whatever you want.

Ofa 'atu

[scrivener]

But at this time, McCain is not exhibiting good judgement IMO, attribute it to whatever you want.
I attribute it to his ovarian cancer, then. I have seen this kind of poor judgment only from women in treatment for cancer.

[matapule]

I attribute it to his ovarian cancer, then. I have seen this kind of poor judgment only from women in treatment for cancer.

So we are agreed, he is showing poor judgement. Ovarian cancer, like Alzheimer's is nothing to be trivialized.

[tutusue]

I attribute it to his ovarian cancer, then. I have seen this kind of poor judgment only from women in treatment for cancer.
But, Scriv, that isn't what you initially posted! I'm just raggin' on ya! ;)

[scrivener]

I don't agree. I said in my objection "supposedly poor judgment." I haven't yet made up my mind about whether or not this is a good choice, and it should have been obvious that I only said what I said about ovarian cancer to make a point, which is that your invitation to attribute poor judgment to "whatever you want" bugs me. I didn't ask you not to do it, because you're free to make whatever diagnosis you want; however, I couldn't let that go without expressing my disagreement. Now that I have, I'm willing to continue the original discussion. Peace.

[scrivener]

But, Scriv, that isn't what you initially posted! I'm just raggin' on ya! ;)
Yeah. Even in proving a point facetiously, I thought what I originally wrote was over the line. There are things you don't joke about even to prove you don't joke about them. I'm sorry you saw that, and I'm sorrier that I posted it.

[tutusue]

Yeah. Even in proving a point facetiously, I thought what I originally wrote was over the line. There are things you don't joke about even to prove you don't joke about them. I'm sorry you saw that, and I'm sorrier that I posted it.
You have a conscience. Nuthin' wrong with that!

[Kalihiboy]

Obama's speech reportedly pulled in around 40 million viewers, I would be shocked if the GOP came close to those numbers next week.

Remember how the GOP say they are not about drawing in Hollywood celebrities, well actor Jon Voigt (Angela Jolie's daddy) will be giving a speech at the GOP convention next week.

Aj

[LikaNui]

Moments ago, from a poll on CNN.com:


Who is the stronger VP choice?

Joe Biden... 68%... 78,385

Sarah Palin... 32%... 36,911

Total Votes: 115,296

[Frankie's Market]

Well, more than half a day later, I still honestly can't figure out McCain's selection of Sarah Palin. What was he thinking?

If he felt that he had to select a woman, there were better, more credible choices. Understandably, Condie Rice may have been tied to close to the hip with the Bush administration. But there was Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson. She's been in office for 15 years, which makes her the longest tenured female Republican in the Senate. She's currently a member in the Appropriations and Veteran Affairs committees.

But,... it's been said that the two just don't get along with each other, for whatever reason. And it seems to be the same reason why McCain decided to snub Mitt Romney.

So McCain took a pass on Hutchinson and the next female whose name came up in the hopper was Palin. Is that how he came to his decision? Hmmm.

[tutusue]

Well, more than half a day later, I still honestly can't figure out McCain's selection of Sarah Palin. What was he thinking?[...]
I'll admit I'm apolitical. The last time I was moved by an election was the year JFK ran. I was too young to vote. I've voted since then, of course, but I felt no exhilaration!

'Til now!

I read the HT presidential threads and am in awe of those of you with so much knowledge, understanding and passion. You are my mentors whether you like it or not! While politics will never by my "thing" I still feel the need to comment on McCain's choice of Sarah Palin for VP.

WTF??? :confused:

[TuNnL]

See Post #21 on this thread.

No offense to Linda Lingle.Amen to that. Palin barely looks old enough to meet the minimum age requirement for VP! She definitely has to be the hawtest vixen to run for national office. It must be the hair. Not that I’ll let that affect my vote. ;)

[MyopicJoe]

WTF??? :confused:

LOL. I would love to hear you say that in person.


Well my ex-special forces friend is totally gaga over Palin, mainly because she's pro-gun and an outdoors-woman. He said she's smart (I didn't ask him for evidence of this) and of course he mentioned her beauty. Sex and guns. Powerful combination for some people.

It's not that he's a knucklehead. He's rather intelligent and well spoken. He just believes strongly in a person's right to protect and take care of themselves, especially after the mess the government made of Katrina.

There are Americans who care less about a prez/vp's stance on foreign affairs, and more on their attitude towards internal affairs. Mainly to leave law abiding and self sufficient people alone.

[Frankie's Market]

She definitely has to be the hawtest vixen to run for national office. It must be the hair. Not that I’ll let that affect my vote. ;)

Unfortunately, that's one thing the folks in the 49th state can hold over our collective heads. :(

Our guv'ner looks hotter than yours. Nyah, nyah!

Damn, who can elect that would hold a candle to Sarah Palin? Any nominations?

My pick from among the current crop of politicians: State Rep. Lynn Finnegan. :D

[Frankie's Market]

For those who are curious about the ethics investigation into Sarah Palin, the following link contains a fairly detailed account. Note that the probe is not centered around determining whether the allegations against Palin's former brother-in-law are true or not. Rather, the investigation is looking into the charges that Palin and her staff might have improperly used the power of the governor's office to apply pressure on the state police chief to get her ex-brother-in-law fired. At the very least, it appears that Palin initially tried to cover up the number of times she and her staff made official inquiries into this matter. When faced with gathered evidence, she was forced to admit that her office made an inordinate number of phone calls concerning the ex-brother-in-law and the police chief. All of this undercuts against her image as a reformer, making it appear that Palin was using the power of her office to settle an old family score.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/29/AR2008082903598.html?hpid=topnews

[tutusue]

LOL. I would love to hear you say that in person.
Oh, I can have a truck driv, errr, I mean film crew's, mouth! I kinda have to make a point of thinking before I speak! :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, that's one thing the folks in the 49th state can hold over our collective heads. :(

Our guv'ner looks hotter than yours. Nyah, nyah!
Palin's hot factor will, no doubt, get the Republican ticket some votes in spite of the glasses and business suits as I'm sure the Dems will get some votes based on Obama's looks. <looking at floor, shuffling feet! :rolleyes: )

[sansei]

:o hi this is sansei and i agree that Palin would be a good Vp along with Mccain and i like these two.mccain would be the best Pres and Palin would be the best Vp and as i've shared,im voting for mccain and Palin.im praying they both will win and we'd have the best Pres and The best Vp so i thought to share this with everyone.

well thank's for your time:o

[scrivener]

Interesting. I have the opposite feeling. The more I think about Palin as a VP candidate, the more I like the thinking and the more I admire McCain's decision. First, he stole a LOT of attention away from Obama the day after the big acceptance speech. Early interviews with Palin have not demonstrated that she's any less qualified for her position than Obama is for his.

I agree with something someone in my Twitterstream said today: The Dems can't call Obama the fresh face of change because he's young and not a DC insider and then slam Palin for being the same thing.

One major thing I think the GOP did was make people sit up and pay attention. The shortlist of Lieberman, Romney, Ridge, and...whoever the fourth guy was may have been politically credible, but it was BORING and you know it. If Biden is going to be Obama's hatchet-man, I wonder how that's going to play if Palin is as gracious and steamy as she's been the few times I've seen her speak publicly.

[Creative-1]

Let's see...first wife - former beauty queen...

Second wife - former beauty queen...

Running mate - former beauty queen...

There's a common thread here, but I can't quite discern what it is....

[TuNnL]

If Biden is going to be Obama's hatchet-man, I wonder how that's going to play if Palin is as gracious and steamy as she's been the few times I've seen her speak publicly.“Steamy,” eh scriv? :D For the record, I ’aint disagreeing. ;)

[Frankie's Market]

Interesting. I have the opposite feeling. The more I think about Palin as a VP candidate, the more I like the thinking and the more I admire McCain's decision. First, he stole a LOT of attention away from Obama the day after the big acceptance speech. Early interviews with Palin have not demonstrated that she's any less qualified for her position than Obama is for his.

Then I guess that takes experience off the debate table. Fine with me. ;)

One major thing I think the GOP did was make people sit up and pay attention. The shortlist of Lieberman, Romney, Ridge, and...whoever the fourth guy was may have been politically credible, but it was BORING and you know it.

I guess when it came to shoring up the Christian/social conservative base, the choice of Sarah Palin has, for the time being, energized this constituency. Problem is, McCain also needs to reach out to moderate independents and the Reagan Democrats to win this election. And it doesn't appear that Palin will connect to these voters. Indeed, many of these voters will be uncomfortable with the idea of a candidate with zero foreign policy/national security experience being a heartbeat away from the Presidency. These are folks who would have been much more reassured with someone like Ridge or Lieberman in the veep slot, especially in a scenario where we are still fighting two wars (Iraq and Afghanistan) and possibly could face another (Iran). McCain's age and his past history of melanoma only accentuate these concerns.

If Biden is going to be Obama's hatchet-man, I wonder how that's going to play if Palin is as gracious and steamy as she's been the few times I've seen her speak publicly.

Maybe Biden's going to make Palin look like Dan Quayle in drag at the VP debate? :p

[TuNnL]

Well today, the Honolulu Advertiser moves us (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080830/NEWS05/808300343/1001) from choice verbage to choice adjectives and nouns.
Asked why McCain chose her, his campaign manager Rick Davis said, "Part of it is personal fit."Wonder which “part” fit best? Personally, of course. :D

[matapule]

The last time I was moved by an election was the year JFK ran. I was too young to vote.

Ah, Tutu, ya sweet young thang. I remember the Kennedy years well.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
"Ich bin ein Berliner!"
Peace Corps
Vista
Bay of Pigs
Camelot
Nikita leering at Jackie's decolletage

And then that passion was taken away from us. Those years of youthful enthusiam, idealism, and innocence......never to be recaptured. Yep, I think it is fair to call me a cynic.

But back on topic. Who would you choose to be President - Biden or Palin?

[matapule]

First, he stole a LOT of attention away from Obama the day after the big acceptance speech.

What does that have to do with her appropriateness for the position?

Early interviews with Palin have not demonstrated that she's any less qualified for her position than Obama is for his.

Was she asked the same questions about national and international policies that Obama has been asked over the last several months?

The Dems can't call Obama the fresh face of change because he's young and not a DC insider and then slam Palin for being the same thing.

It takes more than being a "fresh face" to be qualified to lead this country. Palin has 12 years of elective service. 10 of those years were on the Wasilla (pop. 6500) City Council.

One major thing I think the GOP did was make people sit up and pay attention.

Not exactly. It was McCain who made the decision not the GOP. And yes people are sitting up and paying attention to McCain, especially the GOP who are looking at McCain/Palin as loose cannons.

If Biden is going to be Obama's hatchet-man, I wonder how that's going to play if Palin is as gracious and steamy as she's been the few times I've seen her speak publicly.

Only time will tell. Steamy is not even skin deep. Gracious? Getting her former brother-in-law fired and then lying about it?

[U'ilani]

McCain needs to hold on to Evangelical voters, many who are not happy that he is the Republican candidate. Palin can not only speak of being pro-life, but has a story to prove it. She also looks, speaks, and lives, for the most part, in a way that middle America can appreciate. There are a bunch of other pluses by having Palin as a runningmate--her gender takes some of the wind out of Obama's colored sails; she can "use" some of her political stories and accomplishments to come off as a maverick and as a true fiscal conservative. I'm cynical/wise enough to know that the truth is somewhere in between, but nevertheless, it will play out well among conservative voters who are considering voting for Barr or sitting out the vote in November.

[Spin Dr.]

A legitimate observation. And here's my response:

Sen. Obama has been in the national spotlight since his momentous victory in the Iowa Democratic Caucus in January. He's been in scores of presidential debates. And voters have had a chance to get to know his background and to be comfortable with him, despite his relatively brief political career.

Gov. Palin? She gets into the national spotlight,.... today. She has 65 days to tell the nation abour her story and to establish her credentials before general election day. That's not a whole lot of time to re-assure voters who are just getting to know her.

So that's the way I see it. Both may be relatively inexperienced. But since Obama has been in the limelight seven months longer than Palin during this presidential campaign, it works out in his favor.

I'm sorry, but how does "being in the spotlight" make him any more qualified than Gov. Palin? Because that should be what this is all about, shouldn't it?

[matapule]

I'm cynical/wise enough to know that the truth is somewhere in between, but nevertheless, it will play out well among conservative voters who are considering voting for Barr or sitting out the vote in November.

I think that is a good anaysis. It will be interesting to see how her personal ethics hold up under close scrutiny - which is sure to come - with regards to the firing scandal of the Public Safety Director and her former brother-in-law.

Unfortunately, we will hear more about the scandal than her views on the economy or the conflict in Iraq (she has been quoted as saying while Governor, "I really haven't thought about it (Iraq).")

[Leo Lakio]

U`ilani sums it up well. Gov. Palin represents a very large part of the Republican Party's base, a part that was largely dissatisfied with the choice of Sen. McCain as their presidential candidate.

Both parties have to reach beyond their traditional membership in order for one to gain the White House - but you gotta make sure you have that traditional membership solidly in your camp first. Sen. McCain's choice of Gov. Palin goes a long way toward that goal. Many of us may be saying "who?" right now, but she's got a couple months in the spotlight to answer that question.

[Random]

There are Americans who care less about a prez/vp's stance on foreign affairs, and more on their attitude towards internal affairs. Mainly to leave law abiding and self sufficient people alone.
Yeah, it's now "us come first before the rest of the world (screw them)."

[Random]

Only time will tell. Steamy is not even skin deep. Gracious? Getting her former brother-in-law fired and then lying about it?
Ah. And all this time I thought she was inhuman. :p

[tutusue]

Ah, Tutu, ya sweet young thang. I remember the Kennedy years well.
I was one year shy of voting age and I was pi$$ed!
[...]Camelot
I remember the feelings Camelot elicited. There was something so regal about the first couple.
Nikita leering at Jackie's decolletage
Bwaha! Not to mention Marilyn Monroe's rendition of "Happy Birthday"!
[...]But back on topic. Who would you choose to be President - Biden or Palin?
Considering my political ignorance, this question best puts into perspective for me the topic of this thread.

[TuNnL]

I'm sorry, but how does "being in the spotlight" make him any more qualified than Gov. Palin? Because that should be what this is all about, shouldn't it?Absolutely. But certainly, being in the spotlight is part of the qualification process. Palin has been under it for less than 48 hours, and already a currently ongoing scandal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKNJ6bfBfIk) of hers has been brought to the forefront. Being the chief executive means you need to be able to make snap decisions under national scrutiny. And unless you are a national leader to begin with, hiding in a state that rarely makes headlines means you are a Panos Prevedouros in a Mufi Hannemann world. In short, Palin is literally a babe in the woods, and has yet to be under the microscope. The only national t.v. interview I know of that she made, was one in which she made a complete ass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMZmXCsg5_Q) of herself. :rolleyes:

Some on this message board have argued for a shorter campaign season. I scoff at these individuals. The point of a long campaign is to see whether a candidate is able to weather the storm under the pressure of the national spotlight. Only after months of vetting and critical evaluation do we see which individual has demonstrated the strength of character that having to appeal to a diverse an audience as the U.S.A. and worldwide, can we truly know for sure that we have a worthy president or vice president-elect. The fact that you question the importance of this Spin Dr., demonstrates how naïve and illiterate you are of national politics.

[turtlegirl]

If she wears that outfit I don't think she'll have any problem dealing with Vlad Putin. :D

Ummm.. what's up with this picture? Is it for real? Where is it from (I know, madogre.com, but where is it culled from)? Is it from her online dating service? Halloween? Why does a lawmaker and potential VP have sexy photos available online? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Leo Lakio]

Why does a lawmaker and potential VP have sexy photos available online?Because politicians are human, sexual creatures? At least she's more open about it, which beats skulking around a la Edwards, McCain, Gingrich, Clinton, Kennedy, et al.

I know - not much of an answer, but this whole tenor of discussion (the "babe-ness" of a vice presidential candidate) seems boringly irrelevant to me. She could be the hottest creature I've ever laid eyes upon (and Gov. Palin is FAR from that, imo), but she still ain't getting my vote, because her politics are so far from my own.

[TuNnL]

Ummm.. what's up with this picture? Is it for real?You’re kidding, right? Look carefully below the neckline. You do see where someone lazily (Photoshop™ingly) colored in the skin...right? ;)

[Mike_Lowery]

Because politicians are human, sexual creatures? At least she's more open about it, which beats skulking around a la Edwards, McCain, Gingrich, Clinton, Kennedy, et al.

I know - not much of an answer, but this whole tenor of discussion (the "babe-ness" of a vice presidential candidate) seems boringly irrelevant to me. She could be the hottest creature I've ever laid eyes upon (and Gov. Palin is FAR from that, imo), but she still ain't getting my vote, because her politics are so far from my own.
My feelings exactly. Well...I have different feelings when seeing her picture, but politics-wise, you're on the spot.

[matapule]

Ummm.. what's up with this picture? Is it from her online dating service? Halloween?

Cabo has an annual "Pimp and 'Ho Ball" to benefit the local animal shelter. THAT must be where the picture is from. :eek: Girl, you're a long way from Wasilla, pop. 6500.

[turtlegirl]

You’re kidding, right? Look carefully below the neckline. You do see where someone lazily (Photoshop™ingly) colored in the skin...right?

Ohhh! oops, hee hee hee :o

I thought that was so strange that.. well, nevermind...:o

My mind was on football when I posted that this morning! :D

[U'ilani]

Okay, if you all are going to be so frivolous as to talk about Sarah Palin's sex appeal, I will suggest that her hubby, the "first dude", Todd Palin, is every woman's dream guy: good-looking, common-sense smart, independent (politically), tough and competitive (not just the fact that he won that snowmobile contest 4 times, but the fact that he worked at the North Slope--that is grueling work in the harshest of working conditions), and yet is emotionally secure enough to be willing to act as Mr. Mom (chauferring the kids arounds to after-school activities, fixing dinner, etc.) in order to enable his wife to be governor. And the Hawaiian native part of me likes that he is part Alaska native (Yup'ik Eskimo).

High school sweethearts:
http://www.beldar.org/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/29/palinbook061.jpg

Now:
http://www.irondog.org/racers/bios/2008/photos/22-Todd-Palin.jpg

Family man:
http://www.albertmohler.com/images/PalinFamily_Outside_web.jpg

/end frivilous post (and frivolous, too!)

[Leo Lakio]

Okay, if you all are going to be so frivilous as to talk about Sarah Palin's sex appealNot all of us, mind you. And yes, that's one handsomely photogenic family. As is Senator Obama's. Not that any of that has anything to do with why we should or should not support a candidate --- but thanks for providing some "frivolous" balance.

[U'ilani]

Yes, I did not mean you, LL. :D

Ack--and I cannot believe I misspelled frivolous!

[TuNnL]

Because politicians are human, sexual creatures? At least she's more open about it, which beats skulking around a la EdwardsInteresting you should phrase it that way, Leo. I’m not sure Sarah Palin is necessarily “more open” about sexual creatures, particularly her daughter, Bristol. Like I told Spin Dr. earlier, it wouldn’t take long for the national spotlight to beat down on Gov. Palin. Remember, the truth of John Edwards’ adultery began with a “rumor” that the National Enquirer decided they would pursue.

Now there is a rumor that Palin’s fifth child (in itself a story because the infant has Down Syndrome) is not really hers (http://stupidcelebrities.net/2008/08/30/bristol-palin-pregnancy-is-vp-sarah-palins-5th-child-really-her-daughters-photos/). :eek: I must say it makes perfect sense. Very few 44-year-old women are still having kids, especially if they already have four and they happen to be busy running a state, as governor. No, according to several websites, the baby belongs to Palin’s 16-year-old daughter, Bristol, who was pulled out of school about five months before the baby was born. :eek:

Sounds like a scene from the new ABC hit series “The Secret Life Of the American Teenager (http://abcfamily.go.com/abcfamily/path/section_Shows+Secret-Life-Of-The-American-Teenager/page_Detail)” :eek:

[U'ilani]

Woah, and woe! :eek:

I just checked out the various family photos taken when Sarah Palin would have been pregnant, and yeah, the daughter definitely looks pregnant; Gov. Palin, meanwhile, never has "the look" of a pregnant woman. My guess is that she didn't learn of her daughter's pregnancy until her daughter was far along--and probably after that one photo was taken that makes it all rather clear (otherwise they wouldn't have allowed the daughter to be photographed up front with her belly in full view). Astonishing. I wonder how that will impact all of the media talk during the RNC convention this week.

This presidential election never ceases to amaze.

[LikaNui]

This presidential election never ceases to amaze. To me, it's the pettiness and (dare I say it spell it?) frivolity of so many Americans that never ceases to amaze (and disappoint) me.
While I feel strongly that Palin is a horrible choice for VP, I completely fail to see how her teenage daughter's alleged pregnancy has anything whatsoever to do with the VP position. :mad:
If Palin herself has skeletons in her closet, those are fair game.
If a family member is a convicted axe murderer or child molester, that's newsworthy and pretty fair game.
A teenage pregnancy? Pffffffffbt.
Too many people try to make themselves feel superior by picking on and heralding the frailties of others.
Sometimes humanity can be so inhumane. :(

[matapule]

My guess is that she didn't learn of her daughter's pregnancy until her daughter was far along--and probably after that one photo was taken that makes it all rather clear (otherwise they wouldn't have allowed the daughter to be photographed up front with her belly in full view).

This is all speculation at this point!!!!!!! You may be right about the mother not knowing. The daughter may have lied to Mom and the doctor didn't think to check for pregnancy and diagnosed as "mono" because it is kind of a catch all. But I am only speculating! The truth should come out fairly quickly.

However, the facts are:

1. that the daughter was taken out of high school sometime last fall on the pretext of having " contagious mono." Normally the recovery period for mono is 2 to 3 months. The daughter was out of school for over 5 months (some reports say that she didn't return to school at all this last year).

2. all family photos from the Alaska Government website have been mysteriously removed today.

3. Governor Palin flew home from Governors conference in Texas (an 8 hour flight with a stop over in Seattle) because she said her bag had broken and she was going into labor. Rather than "give birth" to a 1 month premature Down Syndrome baby in Anchorage (or even Dallas), where she landed, with modern facilities, she got in a car and drove more than hour to a hospital in a small village near her home town of Wasilla......where her daughter was.

4. People at the Governor's conference said Palin didn't look pregnant.

I honestly hope this story isn't true. If it is true, it has got to be one of the lowest and saddest points in American politics.

[LikaNui]

I honestly hope this story isn't true. If it is true, it has got to be one of the lowest and saddest points in American politics. WHAT?!?? I hope that your comment didn't come out the way you meant it to, because you're going to have to explain to me what the hell this story has to do with politics, much less be "one of the lowest and saddest points."
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and let you clarify your statement before I go into "pit bull" mode.

[tutusue]

[...]
Now there is a rumor that Palin’s fifth child (in itself a story because the infant has Down Syndrome) is not really hers (http://stupidcelebrities.net/2008/08/30/bristol-palin-pregnancy-is-vp-sarah-palins-5th-child-really-her-daughters-photos/). :eek: I must say it makes perfect sense. Very few 44-year-old women are still having kids, especially if they already have four and they happen to be busy running a state, as governor. No, according to several websites, the baby belongs to Palin’s 16-year-old daughter, Bristol, who was pulled out of school about five months before the baby was born. :eek:[...]
I have such mixed emotions about this. First of all, if the rumor about Bristol turns out to be just that, a rumor..the damage to her has already been done. Pretty heavy stuff for a 16 year old.

Interesting video. There are times Palin looks pregnant and times she doesn't. My first thought was of Natalie Morales on The Today Show. Her bun is due out of the oven within the next couple of weeks. At 7 months I marveled at how "unpregnant" she looked. Only at certain angles could I tell. Now that she's about to deliver, she finally looks pregnant! Palin's size is of much less curiosity to me than the fact that she waited 'til she was 7 months along to say anything and this coincided with her daughter being out of school.

Must admit I have a problem with this statement from the link:
In Sarah Palin’s defense here, if she did pretend the baby was hers, it is just a mother protecting her young daughter, and doing the right thing.
Doing the right thing? I dunno. Should the accusation be true I just don't see lying about this situation as "doing the right thing".

It's more common today than a generation ago for women in their 40s to continue having children. Sorry, TuNnl, I don't have the time to search for cites. It didn't surprise me at all to learn that Palin had a baby at 44. It also didn't surprise me to learn of the baby's Down Syndrome as older mothers have a higher risk of this. While it's always sad, it's not all that unusual.

Yes, 44 year old, "steamy" <g> women still have "steamy" sex! If not careful, that can lead to pregnancy! And, Palin's stance is anti-abortion.

All I'm saying in this long winded, boring reply is that nothing about Palin's family surprised me or even caused me to raise one hair of one eyebrow! I saw them as a beautiful family with children of varied ages...altho' the 4th child appears to be the postscript, so why not have a 5th and try for another boy! :D

[matapule]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and let you clarify your statement before I go into "pit bull" mode.

Oh, my point is that any politician would put their political ambitions ahead of protecting vulnerable members of their family from public scrutiny....if the rumors are true. I hope they aren't. I'm sympathetic to the family, whether the story is true or false.

[Frankie's Market]

I'm sorry, but how does "being in the spotlight" make him any more qualified than Gov. Palin? Because that should be what this is all about, shouldn't it?

You are right. But how are voters supposed to make a determination in their minds about who is more qualified for office? Like it or not, national exposure and media scrutiny are the tools by which most voters use to educate themselves and to familiarize themselves with the candidates.

Hey, it works both ways. At the beginning of this year (and even into August), many polls say that people assumed that McCain would be a better Commander-in-Chief than Obama. Why? A big reason for the assumption was because the nation was much more familiar with the Arizona Senator, having previously run for President in 2000. And of course, McCain could say that he's been in Washington years longer than Obama.

Right now, Obama is in a very serious position to be elected the next President of the US, despite his relative newcomer status. But this position wasn't just handed to him, Spin Dr. If I may remind you, it took 19 months of campaigning, hard work, debates, and media scrutiny to get to this point where many people in this country feel that he has passed the threshold of being qualified to be President.

And you think that Sarah Palin can similarly pass this threshold in a mere 48 hours after being picked by McCain.

I don't think so! :rolleyes:

This is not to say that Gov. Palin cannot be a competent vice-president or president. I'm not so close-minded as to make that conclusion just yet. But she has to make the case to the American public that she is ready to be this nation's Commander-in-Chief. And unlike Obama who had 19 months to make his case, Palin has about 65 days. But thems da breaks.

[Kalihiboy]

Rumors are rumors until proven true. Just like the rumor started by Rove and Bush in 2000 that McCain's adopted daughter is actually his, conceived via an extra-marital affair he had with an African-American woman.

What bothers pople I think about Palin's child not being hers, rather it being her grandchild is the lying or hiding of the truth. It might not be anyone's business but people like to know the truth.

If the rumor is true, might cause an embarrassment to the family, but I don't think an end to her campaign as VP. Just fess up and tell the truth, people like honesty, might be a reason Clinton was eventually forgiven and Edwards might as well down the line.

Now if she is investigated for some ethics violation regarding the dismissal of her brother in law's boss, that is a different story. It shows an abuse of powers and also maybe she is a perfect running mate for McCain considering she obviously has a temper like he does to do things like that.

Aj

[Frankie's Market]

To me, it's the pettiness and (dare I say it spell it?) frivolity of so many Americans that never ceases to amaze (and disappoint) me.
While I feel strongly that Palin is a horrible choice for VP, I completely fail to see how her teenage daughter's alleged pregnancy has anything whatsoever to do with the VP position. :mad:
If Palin herself has skeletons in her closet, those are fair game.
If a family member is a convicted axe murderer or child molester, that's newsworthy and pretty fair game.
A teenage pregnancy? Pffffffffbt.

I found out about the rumor yesterday and didn't mention it here. But now that the cat is out of the bag,....

If the rumor is indeed false, then whoever started it is a real scumbag.

But *if* the rumor is true, then it cannot easily be dismissed as mere pettiness or treated as a frivolous tabloid story. Remember! We are talking about the chief executive of a state flat out lying to her constituents. Lying about her own health status is a very serious matter, as it could have a dramatic impact on her capacity to carry out the duties she has sworn to uphold.

If this turns out to be true, then Palin's candidacy is toast. No way would the American public entrust her with the 2nd (and possibly, the first!) most powerful job in the world to someone who would tell such a serious lie, even if it was to protect her daughter.

[U'ilani]

I do hope this rumor is a non-starter that will blow up in the face of the democraticunderground.com & Daily Kos folks who savour schadenfreude, but all points seem to lead to Bristol, sadly enough.

In the end, I don't think it will matter who wins this election. Our government officials and the voters lack the cajones to make the tough decisions to get our country fiscally solvent and the wisdom to use our military force responsibly and appropriately.

[Kalalau]

Does anybody think congress should appropriate $65 million and appoint a special prosecutor to muck around in the Palin family's private life?

[Random]

Sometimes humanity can be so inhumane. :(
Too true, but most of our species fail to accept it.

[Spin Dr.]

Absolutely. But certainly, being in the spotlight is part of the qualification process. Palin has been under it for less than 48 hours, and already a currently ongoing scandal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKNJ6bfBfIk) of hers has been brought to the forefront. Being the chief executive means you need to be able to make snap decisions under national scrutiny. And unless you are a national leader to begin with, hiding in a state that rarely makes headlines means you are a Panos Prevedouros in a Mufi Hannemann world. In short, Palin is literally a babe in the woods, and has yet to be under the microscope. The only national t.v. interview I know of that she made, was one in which she made a complete ass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMZmXCsg5_Q) of herself. :rolleyes:

Some on this message board have argued for a shorter campaign season. I scoff at these individuals. The point of a long campaign is to see whether a candidate is able to weather the storm under the pressure of the national spotlight. Only after months of vetting and critical evaluation do we see which individual has demonstrated the strength of character that having to appeal to a diverse an audience as the U.S.A. and worldwide, can we truly know for sure that we have a worthy president or vice president-elect. The fact that you question the importance of this Spin Dr., demonstrates how naïve and illiterate you are of national politics.

If you think being in the media spotlight makes someone more qualified to lead, then by all means, go ahead and vote that way. I'll wait until I can learn more about the candiates than whether they've been on TV and in the newspapers a lot before I decide to vote for them.

[Frankie's Market]

If you think being in the media spotlight makes someone more qualified to lead, then by all means, go ahead and vote that way. I'll wait until I can learn more about the candiates than whether they've been on TV and in the newspapers a lot before I decide to vote for them.

Hats off to you then, Spin Dr. If every voter was as inquisitive and curious about the candidates as you were, what a different world it would be.

But in the real world, so many people are busy working 2 or more jobs, have family obligations, etc. Voter turnout is low in many communities. If anyone is serious about wanting to be elected to a major office, he/she can't be complacent, sit on their hands, and expect all the voters to carry out their own research as to where all the candidates stand on the issues. One has to aggressive, actively campaign, advertise, meet people, attend public functions, fundraise, etc. If someone doesn't, they don't stand much of a chance of getting elected, particularly for a statewide/national office.

[scrivener]

If this turns out to be true, then Palin's candidacy is toast. No way would the American public entrust her with the 2nd (and possibly, the first!) most powerful job in the world to someone who would tell such a serious lie, even if it was to protect her daughter.
With all due respect, this is absurd. This is not lying about her health, it's lying to protect her family from idiots who have no business knowing stuff like this, including me and you. Whether or not the lying is beneficial to the child(ren) involved is another matter, but we all know people who grew up thinking their biological mothers were really their biological siblings, and that their biological grandparents were really their parents. I don't know if this is good or bad; I know people who don't know this about themselves even in their early adulthood and I admit it concerns me, but even if these families run for public office, I don't see how this manner of child-raising has anything to do with their abilities to serve. Telling a lie to cover a shady business deal or a political deed is one thing; telling a lie to protect someone in your family, or telling a lie in a political arena about your sex life? Big deal. When we shouldn't be asking the questions in the first place, the lies are meaningless and we are guiltier of impropriety than the liars.

Does anybody think congress should appropriate $65 million and appoint a special prosecutor to muck around in the Palin family's private life?
This is exactly what I was thinking. Bill Clinton lied about sex and the GOP went so far as to make him only the second President ever impeached. Now here's a lie about the parenthood of a child in what appears to be a messy family situation. We all need to just chill. Politics is politics; family is family.

[matapule]

I'll wait until I can learn more about the candiates than whether they've been on TV and in the newspapers a lot before I decide to vote for them.

And THAT is called the media spotlight.

[matapule]

Telling a lie to cover a shady business deal or a political deed is one thing; telling a lie to protect someone in your family, or telling a lie in a political arena about your sex life? Big deal. This is exactly what I was thinking. Bill Clinton lied about sex and the GOP went so far as to make him only the second President ever impeached.

This is the same GOP that has run our country for the last 8 years and wants to run it for at least 4 more. Pathetic. 65 million.

[scrivener]

This is the same GOP that has run our country for the last 8 years and wants to run it for at least 4 more. Pathetic. 65 million.
What? 65 million what?

[Kalihiboy]

What? 65 million what?

Guessing? The bill Ken Starr charged to the American taxpayers to investigate a stained dress a decade ago?

Aj

[scrivener]

Oh yeah, sorry. If I'd read a few responses up that woulda made sense to me. :)

[TuNnL]

If you think being in the media spotlight makes someone more qualified to lead, then by all means, go ahead and vote that way. I'll wait until I can learn more about the candiates than whether they've been on TV and in the newspapers a lot before I decide to vote for them.And THAT is called the media spotlight.Thank you, matapule. You took the words right out of my mouth. So enlighten me, Spin Dr. If you aren’t going to pay attention to whether the candidate has been on TV and in the newspaper, how the hell are you going to “learn more about them”? Hint: the Internet is the media spotlight too. Unless you mean you’re going to rely on more “independent research” like this (http://stupidcelebrities.net/2008/08/30/bristol-palin-pregnancy-is-vp-sarah-palins-5th-child-really-her-daughters-photos/). :rolleyes:

[Frankie's Market]

With all due respect, this is absurd. This is not lying about her health,

So lying to people about being pregnant when you're not,... is not lying about your health status?

Now,... who's being "absurd" here? :rolleyes:

Listen, if you want to find some moral justification in anyone telling such a lie, then whatever. That can be legitimately debated. But let's not start losing a grip on simple logic.

it's lying to protect her family from idiots who have no business knowing stuff like this, including me and you.

Lying to protect her family's public reputation? Maybe. A cynic would say it would be a lie to protect Sarah Palin's political future.

It's up to each person to make up their mind about motives, just as I'm sure many people made up their own minds about John Edwards' motives for publicly admitting about having an extramarital affair with Rielle Hunter.

Telling a lie to cover a shady business deal or a political deed is one thing; telling a lie to protect someone in your family, or telling a lie in a political arena about your sex life? Big deal.

If this rumor turns out to be true, then Gov. Palin's lie would be a "big deal" to me, and I'll tell you why.

It's no secret that Palin is strongly pro-life. So much so that she opposes abortion, even in cases of rape and incest. That has made her the darling of the evangelical right-wingers.

But the same group of voters has almost raised her status to that of sainthood when she supposedly gave birth to Trig. Palin was not shy in telling everyone about how the doctor diagnosed that her unborn baby had Downs Syndrome. She had the option of getting an abortion, which most parents would choose when faced with this situation. But her decision to have this child anyway made her a folk hero with the pro-lifers.

Although I do not count myself in the pro-life camp, I have to admit that when I first heard the story of Gov. Palin going through with the decision of giving birth and raising a Down Syndrome baby, my initial reaction was one of admiration. Here, I thought, was a pro-life politician who doesn't just talk the talk, but she's willing to walk the walk.

Even now, my admiration still stands. But if it is ever proven that this whole thing was a lie, then my admiration for Palin would turn to disappointment. Anyone who would concoct such a scheme for political gain,..... that would be so pathetic.

[matapule]

I do hope this rumor is a non-starter that will blow up in the face of the democraticunderground.com & Daily Kos folks who savour schadenfreude,

I know what you mean, but there is no denying that the National Enquirer (another "news source" of questionable value) broke the John Edwards story. I am all for freedom of the press and I include democraticunderground and dailykos in that group. They just better be prepared to be sued if they don't get it right.

[scrivener]

Fair enough. I hadn't thought of it that way, and while my inclination is still to see this issue as a family issue, you've definitely given me something else to consider.

[matapule]

Although I do not count myself in the pro-life camp, I have to admit that when I first heard the story of Gov. Palin going through with the decision of giving birth and raising a Down Syndrome baby, my initial reaction was one of admiration. Here, I thought, was a pro-life politician who doesn't just talk the talk, but she's willing to walk the walk.

Even now, my admiration still stands. But if it is ever proven that this whole thing was a lie, then my admiration for Palin would turn to disappointment. Anyone who would concoct such a scheme for political gain,..... that would be so pathetic.

I don't count myself in the pro-life camp but not pro-abortion either. IF THE STORY IS TRUE.....I would have admired Gov. Palin if she had said, "my daughter was pregnant with a special needs baby, we encouraged her to give birth because my husband and I don't believe in abortion. Now my daughter and the baby need lots of help and love and my husband and I are going to insure that happens forever. " Now that is a person I could admire. That is someone who talks the talk and walks the walk!

Is it any of our business? No, as her private life it is none of our business, but IF she has participated in a coverup and lying for political gain, then it becomes our business. Clinton didn't have an affair with "that woman, Ms Lewinsky" for political gain. He did it to satisify his libido. I don't judge Clinton for having the affair, that is his private matter. His lying about it when caught is pathetic.

[acousticlady]

This probably should go under a different thread, but the conversation started here - so I'll ask the question here. Everyone is discussing whether or not Palin's down syndrome baby is really hers or her daughter's. Aren't down syndrome babies generally born to "older" mothers? I was under the impression that this occurs almost exclusively to women in their 40's. If that is the case, doesn't it automatically dispel the rumor? Or am I missing something?

[Kalalau]

A simple blood test would settle it. Maybe Maury Povich has some time available.

[TuNnL]

Everyone is discussing whether or not Palin's down syndrome baby is really hers or her daughter's. Aren't down syndrome babies generally born to "older" mothers? I was under the impression that this occurs almost exclusively to women in their 40's.It’s easy to get that impression because the likelihood of diagnosis increases as women get older. But a simple check of the National Down Syndrome website (http://www.ndsccenter.org/resources/package3.php) gives you the facts:
80% of babies with Down syndrome are born to women under 35 years of age
The real problem here, is that the youngest age group for mothers in Down Syndrome baby studies is 20-24. Bristol Palin is only 16. Relevant or irrelevant, it’s notable that teen pregnancy results in a disproportionately larger amount of birth defects. :(

[matapule]

Aren't down syndrome babies generally born to "older" mothers? I was under the impression that this occurs almost exclusively to women in their 40's. If that is the case, doesn't it automatically dispel the rumor? Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing the big picture. The incidence of Down Syndrome babies born to women over 40 increases from 1% to 3%. That is a threefold increase. But, 80% of Down Syndriome babies are born to women who are under 35 years of age, just by sheer numbers alone. So if you are comparing a 16 year old to a 44 year old, statistical probability says that the baby is the 16 year old's.

But I am not interested in statistical probability in this case. I am interested in the possibility that a politician may have used this incident for her own political gain.

[Spin Dr.]

Thank you, matapule. You took the words right out of my mouth. So enlighten me, Spin Dr. If you aren’t going to pay attention to whether the candidate has been on TV and in the newspaper, how the hell are you going to “learn more about them”? Hint: the Internet is the media spotlight too. Unless you mean you’re going to rely on more “independent research” like this (http://stupidcelebrities.net/2008/08/30/bristol-palin-pregnancy-is-vp-sarah-palins-5th-child-really-her-daughters-photos/). :rolleyes:

TuNnL, you and Matapule missed my point completely. I never said I wasn't going to pay attention to the media - I said just being in the media spotlight doesn't make someone qualified to lead. It simply means we "know" more about them. Maybe what people know about Sen. Obama makes them want to vote for him; fine. But people are bashing Gov. Palin because she hasn't been in media spotlight like Obama has, yet we've only known she would be tapped for the VP position for what, three days? Obama's been running for President -- not VP -- for what seems like forever. Of course he has an advantage in that regard. But they're acting like it's Palin's fault that we don't know more about her, and claiming she's not qualified because of it. Like Frankie's Market pointed out, we don't know if she's qualified yet, and do simply dismiss her without learning more about her is irresponsible, in my opinion. And Frankie, I also agree that candidates really have to be aggressive in their marketing of themeselves, because many people don't have the luxury of the time and wherewithal to research the candidiates - but again, it's not Gov. Palin's fault we don't know much about her (yet).

I'm just saying I'm willing to wait a little longer to find out more about her before making a decision -- a rather important one, I might add -- that will impact our nation's future. And yes, I'll be watching the media coverage of both parties to try and make the most enlightened decision I can. Does Obama have an advanatge over her in regards to what we know about them? Absolutely. But she's not running against Obama, per se -- Sen. McCain is. Yes, she's an integral part of McCain's campaign, but she's not the only part.

[Random]

But I am not interested in statistical probability in this case. I am interested in the possibility that a politician may have used this incident for her own political gain.
Have she used it for political gain, or is it just the media that keep hammering it down our throats?

Is she the only one or are there others, even if it is to promote healthcare, a hot issue in today's politics?

[Random]

Is it any of our business? No, as her private life it is none of our business, but IF she has participated in a coverup and lying for political gain, then it becomes our business. Clinton didn't have an affair with "that woman, Ms Lewinsky" for political gain. He did it to satisify his libido. I don't judge Clinton for having the affair, that is his private matter. His lying about it when caught is pathetic.
And yet Slick Willy served his full term, when he should have gotten an impeachment before then. If it is our business, why didn't we do something about that?

[Kalalau]

Lets make up a list of all the talented men whose service we would have lost if they had been thrown out of their jobs because of their private lives. I'll start. General Eisenhower at the height of World War Two. That would have been great. Another example. FDR at the height of the last Great Depression. Okay, your turn...

[Leo Lakio]

No foget Thomas Jefferson.

[Frankie's Market]

I don't count myself in the pro-life camp but not pro-abortion either. IF THE STORY IS TRUE.....I would have admired Gov. Palin if she had said, "my daughter was pregnant with a special needs baby, we encouraged her to give birth because my husband and I don't believe in abortion. Now my daughter and the baby need lots of help and love and my husband and I are going to insure that happens forever. " Now that is a person I could admire. That is someone who talks the talk and walks the walk!

I concur with those sentiments. But guess what? Many members of the evangelical right who make up the core of Sarah Palin's support base are, shall we say, a bit more judgemental about a politician having a child who is an unwed teen mother. Hey, when you court voters who support a zero-tolerance policy for abortion and a creationist curriculum in the schools, you had best have a squeaky clean family image.

Is it any of our business? No, as her private life it is none of our business, but IF she has participated in a coverup and lying for political gain, then it becomes our business. Clinton didn't have an affair with "that woman, Ms Lewinsky" for political gain. He did it to satisify his libido. I don't judge Clinton for having the affair, that is his private matter. His lying about it when caught is pathetic.

I concur again. And I want to re-iterate here: I'm not concerned, nor is it my intention to be judgemental, about Bristol Palin possibly being an unwed teenage mother. What I would be concerned about is Sarah Palin possibly engaging in an elaborate cover-up scheme to conceal her daughter's pregnancy and conjuring up this courageous (some would say reckless) story about her water suddenly breaking in Texas, but nonetheless proceeding to give a 30 minute speech at a governor's conference,.... and then making an 8 hour flight back home to Alaska in order to give birth to Treg in her home state. Now, if all this turned out to be an elaborate hoax, it makes me wonder just how far a Vice President (or President) Palin would go to cover-up wrongdoing in her administration.

[tutusue]

[...]What I would be concerned about is Sarah Palin possibly engaging in an elaborate cover-up scheme to conceal her daughter's pregnancy and conjuring up this courageous (some would say reckless) story about her water suddenly breaking in Texas, but nonetheless proceeding to give a 30 minute speech at a governor's conference,.... and then making an 8 hour flight back home to Alaska in order to give birth to Treg in her home state. Now, if all this turned out to be an elaborate hoax, it makes me wonder just how far a Vice President (or President) Palin would go to cover-up wrongdoing in her administration.
Assuming, for sake of argument, both the timeline and the story are accurate, and having worked in the OB-GYN field of medicine and given birth to 2 children myself...the basic assumption is that the more pregnancies the faster those babies exit the chute! Lotsa variables and not always true, of course, but it's best to plan for it.

My water broke with eldest spawn. There was NO WAY I could've given a 30 min. speech, not even to my doctor! Did Gov. Palin stand at a podium with a towel between her legs? Add to that, an 8 hour flight? Huh-uh, impossible! There is a greater possibility of infection after the water breaks. Why would any mother, first timer or fifth timer, knowingly risk giving birth under such unsanitary conditions. And who, amongst her entourage, would allow her to do such a stupid thing?

IF Gov. Palin's tale of labor and delivery turns out to be true <cough><cough> then count me as one who considers her RECKLESS, not couragious.

I have no problem with a politician having a daughter, teen or otherwise, who birthed out of wedlock. I have a huge problem should it be proved the story of baby Trig's birth is a lie. If Gov. Palin is proved to have lied about this baby what else is she capable of lying about?

[Leo Lakio]

I have no problem with a politician having a daughter, teen or otherwise, who birthed out of wedlock. I have a huge problem should it be proved the story of baby Trig's birth is a lie. If Gov. Palin is proved to have lied about this baby what else is she capable of lying about?Gonna call you Nutshell Sue for that summation.