Sarah Palin - pros & cons

[matapule]

A questionaire was sent to all Alaska Gubernatorial candidates in the 2006 election. The following question was asked:

11. Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

Sarah Palin answered on her questionaire with the following:

"Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance."

Someone needs to take Sarah aside and whisper in her ear: "SARAH! The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by a Baptist minister. The words "under God" were added in 1954 by the Legislature. The Founding Fathers are recognized from the period in the late 18th century. They had nothing to do with the Pledge of Allegiance!"

I hope Sarah Palin is never asked to spell potato!!!!

It appears that Sarah Palin's developmental maturity is stuck in high school. Her vocabulary is high school, her knowledge of world and governemental affairs is high school level, and at times her personal appearance is straight out of GREASE. At least this weekend, she had the "naughty librarian" look.

So Sarah Palin really doesn't know what the Vice President does. She thinks she has international policy experience because her state is next to Russia. She believes that being president of the PTA is appropriate experience to be Vice President of the USA. Couple this with John McCain who graduated 3rd from the bottom of his class at Annapolis.

And we haven't even begun to investigate in depth the abuse of gubernatorial powers, cover ups, and lies charges.

You certainly can't accuse the GOP of being intellectuals. The GOP is being consistent with first Bush/Cheney and now McCain/Palin.

Will it ever end?

[Vanguard]

Sarah Palin addresses the Alaskan Independence Party convention (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI)

[matapule]

This is very funny. She likes Ron Paul for President. This should make tunnl happy.

[Frankie's Market]

In that same 2006 questionnaire, Palin was asked:

3. Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

Well folks. I think we all now have ample evidence of how devastatingly effective a just-say-no-to-sex education is. :rolleyes:

[scrivener]

In all fairness, while I agree that abstinence-only sex-ed does not work, neither do most of the safe-sex models where education about contraception is also provided. In just about all instances of both forms of sex-ed, sexual activity dips steeply immediately after the instruction but gradually rises back to general levels. The studies tend to be very short, however, and sample sizes quite small (parents are eager to have their kids in programs, but not so eager to have their kids answer the surveys that these studies involve).

The most effective programs include involvement by community groups (which could be church groups or secular groups), the local media, parents, and educators, in a multi-pronged approach that covers sex itself, disease prevention, and pregnancy.

The biggest problem is that there is a disconnect between what some people think sex education should be and what others think it should be, and you can hear it in the tone of even the posts here and in the other VP thread. It is easy to mock the abstinence-only contingent and to make it look stupid because their ideas don't lead to lower rates of teen pregnancy. However, abstinence-with-contraceptive-ed endorsers typically have as their main goal a decrease in STDs and pregnancies, while abstinence-only folks have as their main goal abstinence.

This is a HUGE difference in philosophies, and while the educator in me sees the PRACTICAL advantage of contraceptive education (that doesn't sound right, the way I just worded it), my heart is with those who wish their kids would wait until they're married. I've been mocked for my own stance on this, but fine: I can take it.

It is sooooo easy to point to one family and say, "Ha! Your plan didn't work!" but teenagers are teenagers; some of them are going to get pregnant unexpectedly and some of them are going to wait until they are better equipped for sex before they become that intimate with someone, and we do everything we can as parents and educators to help them make the best decisions, but ultimately the decisions are their own.

I know this is somewhat off topic, but I'm becoming very uncomfortable with what sounds like GLEE at worst and understandable schadenfreude at best at what cannot be an easy situation for the people involved.

[Frankie's Market]

I know this is somewhat off topic, but I'm becoming very uncomfortable with what sounds like GLEE at worst and understandable schadenfreude at best at what cannot be an easy situation for the people involved.

Everybody's entitled to their opinion. Wolf Blitzer and his colleagues on CNN were discussing the pros-and-cons of abstinence-only education in the context of what is happening with Sarah Palin's family. Personally, I don't think commentators supporting a more explicit education need apologize for emphatically stating their case in the midst of what must be a very difficult time in the Palin household. YVMV, as I'm sure it may. And that's cool. You'll get no condemnation from me for disagreeing. But I don't think discussion and debate of this vital topic should suddenly be "pussy-footed" upon because of just one particular teen getting pregnant, as high profile as that teen has suddenly become based upon a fateful decision that her mother made to step into the national stage.

[Frankie's Market]

Breaking news: Sarah Palin has just hired a private attorney to defend her in the Alaskan Legistature's Troopergate investigation. Hmmm, looks like this scandal may be a little more serious that what it was earlier portrayed to be. Yet another sign that John McCain's veep selection was not adequately vetted.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h7VIY5GfDmjy-A5HsGLuHvA0SHtgD92U5TQO1

[matapule]

I know this is somewhat off topic, but I'm becoming very uncomfortable with what sounds like GLEE at worst and understandable schadenfreude at best at what cannot be an easy situation for the people involved.

Scrivener, you are free to spin this whichever way you want, but nothing in my posts in this thread discusses the "pregnancy." I have already stated in another thread that the 'pregnancy" issue is a sad one for the teenager. It is her mother, Sarah Palin, who needs to be held accountable for putting her career ahead of her daughter's well being.

If this discussion of the potential next Vice President of the USA makes you feel uncomfortable you might not want to read these threads anymore. It may sound like GLEE to you for people to ask and discuss honest questions about the qualifications and background of a vice presidential candidate, but that is a necessary part of the vetting process that was clearly not done by McCain and his staff. So spin away.

Tell us why you think Sarah Palin is a good candidate. I'd like to hear your reasoning. That's what this thread is about.

[Vanguard]

Breaking news: Sarah Palin has just hired a private attorney to defend her in the Alaskan Legistature's Troopergate investigation. Hmmm, looks like this scandal may be a little more serious that what it was earlier portrayed to be. Yet another sign that John McCain's veep selection was not adequately vetted.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h7VIY5GfDmjy-A5HsGLuHvA0SHtgD92U5TQO1

I don't think the hiring of an attorney in of itself is sufficient to base an assumption that this scandal will become bigger than what the MSM have made it out to be. According to her wikipedia entry, she doesn't have a Juris Doctorate herself, so hiring a (good) attorney is prudent. Interesting trivia -- she spent one semester at Hawaii Pacific University.

Don't get me wrong -- I still don't trust her. :p

[Frankie's Market]

I don't think the hiring of an attorney in of itself is sufficient to base an assumption that this scandal will become bigger than what the MSM have made it out to be. According to her wikipedia entry, she doesn't have a Juris Doctorate herself, so hiring a (good) attorney is prudent.

A fair enough observation. As you say, hiring a private practice attorney is a prudent move. But at the same time, it does show that this Alaskan state investigation is serious and not some frivolous matter that will just quietly fade away.

Even if Palin is eventually cleared of any wrongdoing when the investigation is completed, its net effect on the McCain/Palin ticket is negative as it adds a lot of noise and distraction to the message of their campaign.

Interesting trivia -- she spent one semester at Hawaii Pacific University.

Hey, whaddya know! A fellow Sea Warrior. :D

Be that as it may, she still doesn't get my vote. :p

[Vanguard]

A fair enough observation. As you say, hiring a private practice attorney is a prudent move. But at the same time, it does show that this Alaskan state investigation is serious and not some frivolous matter that will just quietly fade away.

Even if Palin is eventually cleared of any wrongdoing when the investigation is completed, its net effect on the McCain/Palin ticket is negative as it adds a lot of noise and distraction to the message of their campaign.

I wonder if it's bad enough to resign over? The fact that a VP candidate of a major political party is even under investigation must be a first in the history of this country.

With those photos of her waving around a firearm, she reminds me of Aaron Burr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Burr#Duel_with_Alexander_Hamilton). Cheney should have come to mind first :p

[Frankie's Market]

From the ABC News blog, there were a couple of comments there that I wanted to share.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/dobson-on-brist.html

COUNTRY FIRST, FAMILY SECOND
At age 44, Sarah Palin is still very capable of having more children herself. If elected as VP, and if she finds herself suddenly President: what if she also finds herself pregnant yet again? Clearly birth control is NOT something this family supports. And this family has proven that their "Abstinence Only" ideals DO NOT WORK, especially for them!
Having a lot of children does not a family make! It’s fairly common knowledge that when a teenage child becomes pregnant, usually something is missing in the family. Usually the case is that mom and/or dad are not all that available as parents to their children.

But maybe Palin and McCain are showing the world that a Man can handle a large family on his own while his other half is busy running the White House. Proving that the 'traditional' family that conservatives always we all must strive for is really not necessary. A man can do it alone. Sounds to me like it’s a fairly easy step from that stance to the one that says gays can raise children. After all, what children really need is a responsible and loving adult at home to raise them. Right Sarah?

How does McCain and Palin think that ANY parent, mom or dad, can deal with a family of 5 children that include a son freshly deployed overseas as a soldier in an ugly war, a daughter dealing with adolescence, another in grade school, a new-born infant with downs-syndrome and an unmarried teenager pregnant with their grandchild to be born just as before inauguration of the highest offices in the world???? PLUS DEAL WITH: Russia, Iran, North Korea, Columbia, Darfur, China, Iraq, Afghanistan, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Hurricanes, terrorists, nuclear proliferation, oil crisis, house markets failures, bank failures, global warming (just to name a few very real issues) and God Knows what else will be throw at the world over the next four years???

Who can deal with all that at the same time? NOBODY. And if Sarah finds herself in the fairly likely position of Commander in Chief, she will be faced with some VERY DIFFICULT decisions: the needs of her young and expanding family and the needs of the turbulent and ever-changing world.

No one should have to make that choice. And no one should suffer for whichever choice she makes. Her family deserves the attention they require from BOTH parents and this country and the world deserve the attention we all require from our leader.

Pretty simple really, Sarah Palin is years from being ready to be President of the United States. Maybe in 2016, at age 50 and with a smaller immediate household, she can manage to be a good parent and a good president but today, she obviously cannot be good at both at the same time.

Posted by: Paul Palmer | Sep 1, 2008 5:11:01 PM

I am a working Christian mother and I have been listening to FOBT for decades.

My issue is not with Palin's daughter it is with her mother. There is NO WAY that I would subject my family to this level of scrutiny given the challenges that they face:

1st: She just gave birth 4 months ago to a baby that has Down's Syndrome and within weeks was back at work. Who was taking care of the child? Who was breastfeeding, nurturing and working to ensure that this baby could maximize their potential. Who was taking care of her other 4 children that welcomed an adorable little boy in their hearts that would face challenges that will affect them all.

2nd: The 17 year old daughter is now pregnant for 5 months and it is bad enough that she is the Governor's daughter and that would put her in the headlines in Alaska. However, her MOTHER has now accepted the nomination for Vice President WHILE she is pregnant and could possibly take the oath of office when she is giving birth or shortly thereafter. Who is going to help this frightened high school senior through this? Who is going to teach her how to be a mother given that she is just a child-- the Vice President of the united states.....??? Who is going to dry her tears and teach her how to change diapers? Who is going to teach her how to be a woman? "Focus on the Family?????"" There is no focus for Palin on her own family--- that is clear.

3rd: How could you say yes to the "opportunity of a lifetime" when you need to say yes to the call of God on your life to be a MOTHER first and a politician second. The opportunity of Palin's life is to look at the challenges and make the decision to nurture and care for her family.

McCain's judgement is horrific and he definately is pandering to women and to Christians. Dr. Dobson should be ashamed of himself... the child is not the issue--- everyone does make mistakes. Palin is definately making a mistake-- she is neglecting her first priority her children. God help her.

Posted by: Rhonda | Sep 1, 2008 6:53:49 PM

As a final note, it should be said that Paul and Rhonda are not "liberal bloggers" who are in the tank for Obama. They are Christians who won't buy into Dr. James Dobson's spin on this latest revelation surrounding the Palin family. And if you take the time to read some of the other comments, you'll find that they're not alone in expressing disenchantment with Focus On The Family's response to this news story.

[AlohaKine]

http://4hillary.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/sarah-palin-vogue.jpg

I think it's great to see a women that is attractive as well as smart representing America instead of the nasty looking old bags that Clinton put in his cabinet. John McCain has good taste.

[AlohaKine]

From the ABC News blog, there were a couple of comments there that I wanted to share.



McCain's judgement is horrific and he definately is pandering to women and to Christians.
Posted by: Rhonda | Sep 1, 2008 6:53:49 PM[/I]

Paul and Rhonda, well said.

What's wrong with that. Should John McCain act all sexist so women don't want to vote for him? Does that also mean that Walter Mondale was "pandering" in 1984 when he had a women selected as his VP running mate?

As for Christians, they a major voting block within the Republican community. You can't just shaft them as a Republican and expect to win.

[Leo Lakio]

It's very telling about us, as a nation, that we spend so much effort discussing the physical appearance of a major political candidate. That's why we haven't had a female president yet.As for Christians, they a major voting block within the Republican community. You can't just shaft them as a Republican and expect to win.True - but don't forget that Christians make up a large part of Democratic voters as well (despite the GOP's efforts to portray the party's members as godless).

As for pandering to the female vote - if that's what the GOP is doing, they are in for a surprise. Women, as a group, are not so easy to manipulate.

[Random]

It's very telling about us, as a nation, that we spend so much effort discussing the physical appearance of a major political candidate. That's why we haven't had a female president yet.
Sarah Palin's name wasn't on the ticket earlier.

[AlohaKine]

It's very telling about us, as a nation, that we spend so much effort discussing the physical appearance of a major political candidate. That's why we haven't had a female president yet.True - but don't forget that Christians make up a large part of Democratic voters as well (despite the GOP's efforts to portray the party's members as godless).

.

The liberal Democrats also often stand for things like gay marriage, condom distribution in schools, sex ed. classes, abortion rights, removal of God references, and so on that go against the what strict Christians believe in many cases. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with this but to does seem to be how they feel.

George W. Bush for example REFUSED to meet the Log Cabin [ gay ] Republicans. While I'm sure the Log Cabin folks were not happy with him on that, his much larger Christian Conservative base was likely pleased. See below article.

03/24/00 - "Governor Bush would not meet with Log Cabin Republicans." Ari Fleischer, spokesman for Governor George W. Bush's presidential campaign, to the Wall Street Journal, but "may meet with a group of Republicans who support him and happen to be gay."

[matapule]

I think it's great to see a women that is attractive as well as smart representing America

So is that your criteria for what is necessary to represent America? Rather shallow don't you think? As far as being smart....she thinks the Pledge of Allegiance was drafted by the Founding Fathers and she doesn't know what the Vice President does, and we're only beginning to learn the rest about her.

instead of the nasty looking old bags that Clinton put in his cabinet.

Now that wasn't very classy.

John McCain has good taste.

We're not talking about good taste, we're talking about good judgement, there is a difference. If people are going to be so shallow, then we deserve the leadership we get.

[Vanguard]

Members of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Say Palin Was a Member in 90s (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html)

[AlohaKine]

It never hurts to be attractive, in particlular in diplomacy with other Governments for example. The concept works on the "reptilian" part of the brain. A person is normally more inclined to go with the plans of someone that is attractive as opposed to a short, bucktoothed, morbidly obese slob with big hairy worts all over his face, with a shovel jaw and hook nose.

[matapule]

A person is normally more inclined to go with the plans of someone that is attractive as opposed to a short, bucktoothed, morbidly obese slob with big hairy worts all over his face, with a shovel jaw and hook nose.

Well that settles it. I guess you won't be following me into battle anywhere!

[AlohaKine]

Well that settles it. I guess you won't be following me into battle anywhere!

I'm not saying it's that only factor but it is one factor.

[matapule]

I'm not saying it's that only factor but it is one factor.

My "looks" is the ONLY factor I have going for me! Other than that, I have no other redeeming social qualities. I'm not even house broken.

[Leo Lakio]

It never hurts to be attractive, in particlular in diplomacy with other Governments for example. The concept works on the "reptilian" part of the brain.Ah - that explains why Margaret Thatcher was such a failure as a politician. :rolleyes:

[Random]

Ah - that explains why Margaret Thatcher was such a failure as a politician. :rolleyes:
I dunno. Maybe she's beautiful by British standards. :p

[buzz1941]

I wish I'd been born rich instead of just good-looking.

[Random]

I wish I'd been born rich instead of just good-looking.
Use your good look to be a trophy spouse.

[LikaNui]

I dunno. Maybe she's beautiful by British standards. :p Well, why not? A Big Mac is gourmet cuisine by British standards. :p

[Frankie's Market]

Throughout the last couple of days, whenever questions were raised about Gov. Palin's preparedness (or lack thereof) to be vice president, or the impact that Troopergate and now, Babygate, will have on the GOP ticket, McCain supporters and Republican strategists fell back on the same response whenever they had no ready answer. "McCain's campaign has thoroughly vetted her." "When all the facts are revealed, everything will turn out fine." "She's the best possible candidate for the job."

Oh boy. I've got the feeling that those conservative pundits and their words of praise and assurance for Palin will soon make them look silly, in light of how poorly she was vetted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?ref=us

Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity,.... if all of them assumed that McCain knew what he was doing with this veep selection, well, they're soon going to find out how mistaken they were. None of them are going to say so publicly, of course. But in their minds, they probably realize just how colossal a blunder the Palin selection was.

[tutusue]

[...]
Oh boy. I've got the feeling that those conservative pundits and their words of praise and assurance for Palin will soon make them look silly, in light of how poorly she was vetted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?ref=us
[...]
Wuuuuu!!! That's one damning article...
Aides to Mr. McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now (my emphasis) to look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin’s background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before Mr. McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice. The campaign was still calling Republican operatives as late as Sunday night asking them to go to Alaska to deal with the unexpected candidacy of Ms. Palin.
Sumthin' tells me this is only the tip of the iceberg.

[TuNnL]

She likes Ron Paul for President. This should make tunnl happy.Actually, you are confusing the Libertarian Party with the Alaska Independence Party. From the article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?ref=us) posted by Frankie's Market:
Among other less attention-grabbing news of the day: it was learned that Ms. Palin now has a private lawyer in a legislative ethics investigation in Alaska into whether she abused her power in dismissing the state’s public safety commissioner; that she was a member for two years in the 1990s of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede;
The party Palin was “welcoming” in Vanguard’s initial post (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?p=208120#post208120) is one that she was a member of at one time. Small wonder for the big hoohaa. :rolleyes: (in any event, it has nothing to do with Ron Paul)

[Frankie's Market]

Not a major issue in the campaign, by any means. But interesting nonetheless.

Sarah Palin's own mother-in-law (Faye Palin) says she's currently undecided about who she'll vote for come November.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/politics/2008/view.bg?articleid=1116395&srvc=home&position=active

WASILLA, Alaska - Sarah Palin’s controversy-splashed arrival on the national stage continued as her own mother-in-law revealed she doesn’t know who she’ll vote for in the election.

Faye Palin admitted she’s a Barack Obama fan and wasn’t sure what the mother of her five grandchildren adds to McCain’s campaign.

“I’m not sure what she brings to the ticket other than she’s a woman and a conservative. Well, she’s a better speaker than McCain,” Faye Palin told the New York Daily News.

Needless to say, a very tepid comment. Of course, Faye no doubt has a deeper insight than the rest of us into the kind of person that Gov. Palin really is and what she's like in private when there's no reporters and cameras around. I just find it ironic that so many of Sarah Palin's supporters praise her as being a supermom. And yet, her own mother-in-law, someone who knows her a lot better and longer than any political commentator, can't bring herself to say that she'll vote for her son's wife. Curious.

[Frankie's Market]

Sarah Palin stormed onto the national scene last Friday with McCain and made an impression with her "Thanks but no thanks" quote when talking about how she rejected a federal earmark to build the now-infamous Bridge To Nowhere. Her battlecry against costly earmarks and wasteful pork barrel spending showed her as being on the same page with McCain.

But now, McCain is finding out why it is important to fully vet a veep pick instead of making a gut decision.

First, it didn't take long for the media to discover that Palin supported the Bridge To Nowhere during the 2006 Alaskan gubernatorial campaign. But once she achieved her goal of being governor, she promptly abandoned that pledge. (Safe to say that Palin doesn't have an 80% approval rating in Ketchikan.)

And now, its revealed that Palin actively seeked and lobbied for federal earmarks during her tenure as mayor of Wasilla.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-earmarks1-2008sep01,0,6108885.story

Well, at least when it comes to flip-flopping, McCain and Palin are still on the same page. :D

Things aren't looking so great on the Troopergate front, either. New e-mail correspondence between the former state police chief and the governor's office is now being considered in the ongoing ethics investigation.

[TuNnL]

Sarah Palin's own mother-in-law (Faye Palin) says she's currently undecided about who she'll vote for come November.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/politics/2008/view.bg?articleid=1116395&srvc=home&position=active

WASILLA, Alaska - Sarah Palin’s controversy-splashed arrival on the national stage continued as her own mother-in-law revealed she doesn’t know who she’ll vote for in the election.

Faye Palin admitted she’s a Barack Obama fan and wasn’t sure what the mother of her five grandchildren adds to McCain’s campaign.

“I’m not sure what she brings to the ticket other than she’s a woman and a conservative. Well, she’s a better speaker than McCain,” Faye Palin told the New York Daily News.Interesting. I can’t help but wonder if (Faye) Palin ever forgave her son, Todd, for his elopement with the then-Sarah Heath. The whole “how dare you let a woman upstage you” argument. All speculation, of course. ;)

A significant “Bristol” item came to light (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/AR2008090100710.html?nav=rss_nation) today. As far as I can tell, the Washington Post is the first mainstream media publication to fully identify her boyfriend/fiancé as 17-year-old Levi Johnston.

In the same report, a statement attributed to a “senior campaign aide” I find quite laughable:
The aide denied reports that a team of a dozen McCain staffers has traveled to Alaska to do further investigation of Palin's background. The adviser confirmed the team is there, but said it would have had a similar assignment whomever McCain had chosen.

Give me a break! Since when does the vetting process begin a few days before the candidate is announced, and continue sometime after? :rolleyes:

[matapule]

Actually, you are confusing the Libertarian Party with the Alaska Independence Party.

Actually no, in a television interview about 6 months ago, she was asked about Ron Paul. She said she thought he would make a good President. I've lost the link.

[Vanguard]

Oh boy. I've got the feeling that those conservative pundits and their words of praise and assurance for Palin will soon make them look silly, in light of how poorly she was vetted.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation did not participate in the vetting of Gov. Sarah Palin and did not conduct a background check as part of the process, an FBI spokesman said today. (http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/palin_and_the_fbi_background_c.php)

[matapule]

WASILLA, Alaska - Sarah Palin’s controversy-splashed arrival on the national stage continued as her own mother-in-law revealed she doesn’t know who she’ll vote for in the election.

Faye Palin admitted she’s a Barack Obama fan and wasn’t sure what the mother of her five grandchildren adds to McCain’s campaign.

“I’m not sure what she brings to the ticket other than she’s a woman and a conservative. Well, she’s a better speaker than McCain,” Faye Palin told the New York Daily News.

Needless to say, a very tepid comment. Of course, Faye no doubt has a deeper insight than the rest of us into the kind of person that Gov. Palin really is and what she's like in private when there's no reporters and cameras around.

Well, here's the rest of the story. When Sarah Palin stepped down as Mayor of Wasilla to run for Lt. Governor (which she lost), her mother-in-law, Faye Palin ran for the vacant mayoral seat. Sarah Palin supported her opponent, who eventually won. Evidently, she didn't support her MIL because Faye is "pro-choice." Since when is abortion rights a city government issue? Sarah Palin is vindicative, inflexible, and simply doesn't get it. Here is the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02palin.html?pagewanted=2&ref=politics

This must make for scintillating conversation around the cozy family setting at Thanksgiving. Dysfunctional Family! reminds me of my own.......but I'm not running for VP. AlohaKine says I am too ugly.. You broke da eyes, bruddah!

On another note, Sarah Palin says her daughter made a "choice" to have the baby: "We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby........" Isn't making a "decision" what pro-choice is all about?

Sarah Palin, I have a question for you, why are you allowing your daughter to make a decision, but you are willing to legislate that other woman in the USA cannot make this decison?

Sarah Palin is someone who talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. Do as I say, not as I do! In my opinion she is dangerous. She is willing to interject her personal conservative biases into every aspect of everyone's personal life. She has the characteristics of a fascist dictator in the making.

And she wants to be Vice President of the United States.

[matapule]

Here’s a reaction to the Palin nomination from Alaska State Democrat Representative Mike Doogan:
…But debating foreign policy with Joe Biden? What’s she going to do? Hit him with her briefing book? If Palin has two thoughts about foreign policy, she’s managed to keep them to herself. Ditto health care. National energy policy. Fiscal policy. You could make a long, long list, but I’ll stop there. She’s going to need a lot of handlers feeding her a lot of talking points, and she’s going to have to hope that the discussion only goes about yay-deep.
She’s also going to have to hope that the national media is as pliable as Alaska’s has been. Palin doesn’t like people criticizing her, and she’s as competitive as any linebacker you ever met. If the campaign gets a little rough and tumble, that could be a bad combination.
So she could be great as a candidate. Or so so. Or blow up on the pad. But if the McCain-Palin ticket should win? Yikers. There’s no way on God’s green earth that she’s prepared to be president of the United States. The only consolation for me is remembering that J. Danforth Quayle once held the job she’s trying to get, and the world didn’t end.
But Sarah Palin?
Really?

[Vanguard]

Proud to be a redneck: The teenager expecting a baby with Sarah Palin's 17-year-old daughter (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1051519/Proud-redneck-The-teenager-expecting-baby-Sarah-Palins-17-year-old-daughter.html)

Yeah, I went there.

Sorry, Barack!

[Leo Lakio]

Give me a break! Since when does the vetting process begin a few days before the candidate is announced, and continue sometime after? :rolleyes:Since time was running out, and Sen. McCain's camp felt it was key for him to make his VP announcement immediately following the Democratic Convention, so as to grab the media attention.

Boy, did they get the media attention, all right.

Sarah Palin is someone who talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. Do as I say, not as I do! In my opinion she is dangerous. She is willing to interject her personal conservative biases into every aspect of everyone's personal life. She has the characteristics of a fascist dictator in the making.

And she wants to be Vice President of the United States.Just following in the footsteps of the current administration. But I hear that Gov. Palin handles a firearm better than V.P. Cheney.

[scrivener]

I wonder if it's bad enough to resign over? The fact that a VP candidate of a major political party is even under investigation must be a first in the history of this country.
It's not. Well, maybe it is. But a sitting VP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiro_Agnew) has been under investigation.

With those photos of her waving around a firearm, she reminds me of Aaron Burr. Cheney should have come to mind first :p
I know it's tempting to compare her with Cheney in this respect, but she does come from a place where owning a firearm is a matter of survival against nature. I don't suspect the current VP owns firearms for similar reasons.

It's very telling about us, as a nation, that we spend so much effort discussing the physical appearance of a major political candidate. That's why we haven't had a female president yet.
If someone looks good, it's worth noting, 'though it certainly shouldn't be an issue. Many pundits commented on the good looks of John Edwards and Dan Quayle, too. Quayle, in response, once introduced himself to a group of journalists by saying, "Hi. I'm Robert Redford."

The liberal Democrats also often stand for things like gay marriage, condom distribution in schools, sex ed. classes, abortion rights, removal of God references, and so on that go against the what strict Christians believe in many cases. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with this but to does seem to be how they feel.
Not sure what "strict Christian" means, but I have spent most of my life in churches with people who have voted in recent years for Republican candidates, and a great many of them are in favor of these things you list. Please don't lump us all together. Like any segment of the voting population, we can be as intelligent or as stupid, as one-issued or as multifaceted as any other.

On another note, Sarah Palin says her daughter made a "choice" to have the baby: "We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby........" Isn't making a "decision" what pro-choice is all about?

Sarah Palin, I have a question for you, why are you allowing your daughter to make a decision, but you are willing to legislate that other woman in the USA cannot make this decison?
This is a good point that I hope someone brings up with her. However, all this quote says is that she let her daughter make a choice and is happy she made what she considers the right choice. The freedom to make even the wrong choice is one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith. Bristol could have chosen to rob a bank, too, but saying she's proud that Bristol didn't doesn't mean Palin is in favor of making the other choice legal.

[buzz1941]

This is all the Democrats' fault. If they hadn't had a national convention with a colossal speech by their candidate, McCain wouldn't have had to rush and fumble his VP pick.

Don't the Repubs have to endorse Palin at the convention this week? What if she doesn't pass?

[Kalihiboy]

This from the UK:

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1051911/Sarah-Palin-forced-quit-McCains-deputy-damaging-secrets-revealed.html

They're saying Sarah was possibly pregnant with her first child before she was married back in 1988. People are going to be saying Bristol is following in old mom's footsteps. Take what the UK newspapers say with a grain of salt at times considering some of the leading papers over there are equivalent
to our very own National Enquirer. Have to admit the National Enquirer is often correct, they would be sued more often if they were not.

Aj

[tutusue]

Has anyone else received the viral, lengthy email that contains a scathing expose of Gov. Palin by a Bryn Mawr grad, from Alaska, to her classmates? I checked snopes.com and, so far, it doesn't show up there!

[Kalihiboy]

Huffington Post weighs in on Sarah Palin:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/is-mccain-getting-set-to_b_123138.html

As we mentioned before in an earlier thread, if McCain does drop her from the ticket with someone else it won't be the first considering McGovern did this to the late Thomas Eagleton shortly after the two were nominated as the Dem's ticket in 1972.

Aj

[Leo Lakio]

Actually no, in a television interview about 6 months ago, she was asked about Ron Paul. She said she thought he would make a good President. I've lost the link.On MTV, back in February. She called him "cool," and admired his independence.
Link (http://newsroom.mtv.com/2008/08/29/sarah-palin-republican-vice-presidential-nominee-plugs-romney-paul-but-not-mccain-in-mtv-interview/)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I was mortified this morning watching GMA splatter pictures of Bristol, the boyfriend, his myspace bio and so forth. All I could think of was "McCain, I got to hand it to you. Hit the American bell curve right in the moral kisser. Ain't nobody paying attention to stuff like The Real Issues right now..." I cannot help but hurt for the Palin family, which is exactly where McCain wants me to be, considering that he couldn't get me to care about his ticket otherwise.

When I look at that teenage girl, I am angry on her behalf that she is being exploited.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

James Carville rips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RALnyUSj_gY&feature=related) it. ROTFLMAO!

[Amati]

Even without considering the adequate or inadequate qualifications of Palin, I find it very interesting that McCain hardly even knows her!

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/29/1307122.aspx

"The McCain camp has just released a tick-tock of how the Palinpick came to be. And according to it, McCain had met her just one time prior to yesterday".

[turtlegirl]

Proud to be a redneck: The teenager expecting a baby with Sarah Palin's 17-year-old daughter (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1051519/Proud-redneck-The-teenager-expecting-baby-Sarah-Palins-17-year-old-daughter.html)

Yeah, I went there.

Sorry, Barack!


Oooh! I saw this, and went there - to myspace!! It seems that the profiles available for Levi Johnston in Alaska were created by Barack Obama supporters. Sigh. I wish I had done this yesterday when it had occured to me. Likely he has removed his real profile by now.

[TuNnL]

Of course, context is everything, but the more we hear Palin unfiltered, the more you have to wonder if she’s VP material. In a radio interview she did as Governor, she laughs (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1051911/McCains-deputy-laughed-air-opponent--cancer-survivor--described-cancer-bitch.html) at a shock jock’s suggestion that Sen. Lyda Green, a cancer survivor, is “a bitch” and a “cancer.” Maybe she thought it was funny, but you have expect someone in Palin’s position should be mature enough to take the higher road.

[matapule]

However, all this quote says is that she let her daughter make a choice and is happy she made what she considers the right choice. The freedom to make even the wrong choice is one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith.

So is Palin pro-choice? No, only for her daughter. For everyone else, she is pro-life. No choice, no decision, Sarah Palin will decide what is good for you. What a hypocrite!

The freedom to make a choice about a woman's own body when it comes to child birth, is NOT one of the basic tenets of fundamental evangelical christianity. This religious movement is out of tune with God. God will decide whether a woman has made the right choice. Fundamentalist Evangelical christian, Sarah Palin, need not get involved.

[scrivener]

So is Palin pro-choice? No, only for her daughter. For everyone else, she is pro-life. No choice, no decision, Sarah Palin will decide what is good for you. What a hypocrite!
*sigh*

Yes, I know that is one way of looking at it. But I don't think it is the only way of looking at it. I'm not stepping into the abortion debate because we both know where that leads, and besides, I'm undecided. However, when a mother says she's glad her daughter made a certain choice, she's not saying that the alternate choice should be legal. My parents are glad I chose to be a teacher and not a pirate. That doesn't mean they think I should have the legal choice to hijack ships at sea. It is not hypocritical to be glad your daughter chose what you think is right.

The freedom to make a choice about a woman's own body when it comes to child birth, is NOT one of the basic tenets of fundamental evangelical christianity. This religious movement is out of tune with God. God will decide whether a woman has made the right choice. Fundamentalist Evangelical christian, Sarah Palin, need not get involved.
On this we may agree. A lot of things are not part of the basic tenets of Christianity: Those tenets all have to do with who we are, who God is, what the Bible is, and what our relationship with God is supposed to be.

From a legal standpoint, and I mean from a governmental standpoint, one side thinks the rights of the child supersede the rights of the mother, while the other thinks the rights of the mother supersede the rights of the child, where the interests of one conflict with the interests of the other. This is not a religious issue, 'though many try to make it so. I myself am an anti-abortion pro-choicer, if I absolutely must choose a side. I know this thread isn't about me, but you took it beyond Ms. Palin and made a statement about Evangelical Christians, and I am telling you that your judgment goes a bit far. Please, as I have asked before, don't lump us all into one category.

[LikaNui]

James Carville rips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RALnyUSj_gY&feature=related) it. ROTFLMAO! Oh, that's goooood! Loved it when he showed the picture of the City Hall where Palin was mayor, and he said it "looks like a bait shop in south Louisiana." :p
Also had to love how the lady politician from Minnesota kept refusing to answer if Palin was the best person the Republicans could've picked. Carville kept pressing her for an answer and she'd hem and haw and change the subject every time.
Good clip, PM. Thanks!

[Leo Lakio]

I'm not stepping into the abortion debate because we both know where that leads, and besides, I'm undecided. However, when a mother says she's glad her daughter made a certain choice, she's not saying that the alternate choice should be legal. My parents are glad I chose to be a teacher and not a pirate. That doesn't mean they think I should have the legal choice to hijack ships at sea.Well, for someone not stepping into the debate, you shouldn't have made any further statements on the topic, Scrivener.

I just want to point out that this is not a fair comparison to make. Your choice of career was not an either/or situation (teacher OR pirate, no other options - though that would make for a very interesting world). But having an abortion OR carrying the child to term is - there are no other options. (Yes, there are options after the child is born, but that's not relevant in this case.)

[matapule]

It is not hypocritical to be glad your daughter chose what you think is right.

Sarah Palin allows her daughter to choose but she doesn't want to let other people choose. Why can't Sarah Palin let other people decide and then be glad when they make the choice that pleases her? That is hypocritical. This is starting to sound like a circular argument.

From a legal standpoint, and I mean from a governmental standpoint,..........

Just stop right there. It has already been decided from the legal, governmental standpoint. It is called Roe v. Wade. Sarah Palin is part of a group that wants to overturn that Supreme Court ruling.

made a statement about Evangelical Christians, and I am telling you that your judgment goes a bit far. Please, as I have asked before, don't lump us all into one category.

I didn't call you a fundamentalist, evangelical christian. I don't know what you are. I think you must be a decent sort. And we probably agree on more than we disagree. I just ask you to think very carefully before you cast a vote for Palin. If you decide to do it, then so be it. That ticket will get at least two votes from Hawaii then, you and sansei.

[Random]

I just ask you to think very carefully before you cast a vote for Palin.
Palin's not running for President. Between her and Palpatine, I'd vote for "Leia."

[scrivener]

That ticket will get at least two votes from Hawaii then, you and sansei.
Please. That ticket is not conservative enough. I've already made it clear I'm voting for the Libertarian party (not for its candidate).

[turtlegirl]

Please. That ticket is not conservative enough. I've already made it clear I'm voting for the Libertarian party (not for its candidate).

OMG, I saw the Glenn Beck interview with Bob Barr last week! I don't want to deliberately poke fun at any of the candidates, because I'm sure that they are all trying their hardest and standing for what they believe in (or what's profitable, or what's popular)...but Bob Barr?? Waaahahahaha! I don't even know how to begin to criticize that guy! Dang, libertarians, I mean, he sure does have a lot of experience, but the way he represented himself in that interview...? No way!

Sincere kudos for sticking with your party, Scrivener!

[TuNnL]

Actually no, in a television interview about 6 months ago, she was asked about Ron Paul. She said she thought he would make a good President. I've lost the link.
On MTV, back in February. She called him "cool," and admired his independence.
Link (http://newsroom.mtv.com/2008/08/29/sarah-palin-republican-vice-presidential-nominee-plugs-romney-paul-but-not-mccain-in-mtv-interview/)So I’m assuming matapule, you are referring to the interview Leo has linked to. As you can see, Palin spends the majority of the exchange plugging Alaska and praising Mitt Romney. She absolutely does not say Paul ‘would make a good president,’ and simply gives a 19-second soundbite on him after being prompted by the reporter. :rolleyes:

In any event, if Palin truly supports Paul, she’ll show up tonight at his rally (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMNqiKa3R1U) in Minneapolis (just minutes away from the RNC) where more than 10,000 Paul supporters have gathered to support the candidate they feel is far better than McCain.

[matapule]

In any event, if Palin truly supports Paul, she’ll show up tonight at his rally (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMNqiKa3R1U) in Minneapolis (just minutes away from the RNC) where more than 10,000 Paul supporters have gathered to support the candidate they feel is far better than McCain.

Given a choice between Ron Paul and McCain, I think I would vote for Paul.

[Amati]

And according to it, McCain had met her just one time prior to yesterday".
I hate to quote my own posting, but doesn't this seem strange to anyone else that he's only met her ONCE????

[Frankie's Market]

I was mortified this morning watching GMA splatter pictures of Bristol, the boyfriend, his myspace bio and so forth. All I could think of was "McCain, I got to hand it to you. Hit the American bell curve right in the moral kisser. Ain't nobody paying attention to stuff like The Real Issues right now..." I cannot help but hurt for the Palin family, which is exactly where McCain wants me to be, considering that he couldn't get me to care about his ticket otherwise.

When I look at that teenage girl, I am angry on her behalf that she is being exploited.

AFAIAC, the only relevance this teen pregnancy matter has is on 1) McCain's poor judgement and lack of vetting and; 2) the possibility that Sarah Palin might have engaged in a coverup. That is IT!

Personal details re: Bristol herself, the identity of her child's father, the details of their relationship,..... all this is completely IRRELEVANT to the campaign. I don't know about anybody else here, but I choose not to have have any part in discussing this kind of information.

[TuNnL]

OMG, I saw the Glenn Beck interview with Bob Barr last week! I don't want to deliberately poke fun at any of the candidates, because I'm sure that they are all trying their hardest and standing for what they believe in (or what's profitable, or what's popular)...but Bob Barr?? Waaahahahaha! I don't even know how to begin to criticize that guy! Dang, libertarians, I mean, he sure does have a lot of experience, but the way he represented himself in that interview...? No way!I too cringed a little when I watched Barr’s interview with Glenn Beck. But you have to realize, turtlegirl, that Bob Barr isn’t the politician most libertarians supported this year. I still question whether Barr is really a libertarian. The candidate that drew the most interest was Ron Paul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8). Paul actually ran for president under the Libertarian banner in 1988 and this year, as a Republican. But he has always been a card-carrying Republican. This is because Paul (as well as many of his supporters, including me) believe that the Republican Party platform has been perverted by neocons like Karl Rove and Paul Wolfowitz. Today, it barely resembles what the pre-Reagan era GOP espoused. Conservatives are the original anti-war activists. They believed in a humble foreign policy — that we should avoid policing the world, and not get ourselves involved in entangling alliances like NAFTA, CAFTA, the United Nations, NATO and the New World Order (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=12729). Basically, what these organizations guarantee is the shipping of American jobs overseas, and the obligation to occupy and/or bomb the sh!t out of countries that supposedly disagree with our “allies.” :eek:

[GregLee]

AFAIAC, the only relevance this teen pregnancy matter has is on 1) McCain's poor judgement and lack of vetting and; 2) the possibility that Sarah Palin might have engaged in a coverup. That is IT!

Personal details re: Bristol herself, the identity of her child's father, the details of their relationship,..... all this is completely IRRELEVANT to the campaign. I don't know about anybody else here, but I choose not to have have any part in discussing this kind of information.
Maybe you mean to say you choose not to have any further part in discussing it, since you just discussed it. I've listened to a lot of political commentary today, and much of it has been about Sarah Palin's daughter, but everyone has agreed that they shouldn't be discussing Sarah Palin's daughter. It's interesting that it seems to be okay to discuss her so long as one includes a disclaimer that it's not okay to discuss her.

[Leo Lakio]

This is because Paul (as well as many of his supporters, including me) believe that the Republican Party platform has been perverted by neocons like Karl Rove and Paul Wolfowitz. Today, it barely resembles what the pre-Reagan era GOP espoused.Wow. For quite some time, I had been feeling like I was the only one who thought this.

As mentioned elsewhere, I was once a registered Republican, from the time I came of voting age, until ... the Reagan era. He and his cronies started the GOP down their long path of anger, divisiveness and nastiness.

No, wait --- Nixon did his part, too.

Please know, conservatives of HT, that I do NOT necessarily equate the disreputable behavior of those in control of the Republican Party with the long and proud tradition of American conservatism.

[AlohaKine]

Karl Rove and Paul Wolfowitz. How come they aren't running. Why go for half measures when you could get the real deal. :rolleyes:

[Frankie's Market]

If there's a silver lining to this teen pregnancy affair, I hope it's this:

Now that organizations like Focus On The Family and the Family Research Council have made the decision to embrace and not condemn Gov. Palin's daughter for her pregnancy, then in the future, AFAIAC, these right-wing Christian Fundamentalists groups should not be in the business of condemning any politician (Democrat or Republican) for any kind of indiscretion their children may have committed.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but I have the feeling that if the shoe was on the other foot and it was the Obamas that had a 17 year old daughter who was pregnant, those same evangelists would have been raking Barack and Michelle over the coals. They would have called them bad parents who are unfit to lead our country.

Anyhow,.....after this incident, the Christian right has lost whatever grounds they have to finger wag and condemn politicians for the misdeeds of their kids. No matter what party they are from.

Let it not be said that the Republicans have a lock on "family values."

[TuNnL]

I've listened to a lot of political commentary today, and much of it has been about Sarah Palin's daughter, but everyone has agreed that they shouldn't be discussing Sarah Palin's daughter.I must take issue with this false statement, as I never agreed we shouldn’t be discussing Bristol Palin. I’m sure there are others on HT that concur. Her relevance to the discussion is ofcourse, is the mountain of evidence that Sarah Palin’s alleged son, Trig, actually belongs to Bristol. The pre-birth (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=208132&postcount=177) photographic evidence, and the circumstantial (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=208230&postcount=209) evidence have been laid out. Now let me give you the post-birth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmvBz8JqnHY) photographic evidence. Clearly, a case can be made that Palin is lying about this four-month-old child. And in the spirit of John Edwards, if she’s lying about that, what else is she lying about? Perhaps her version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UJ-MHz90TY) of the firing of Walt Monagan and its relation to the failure to terminate Trooper Wooten? How about her past and present role in the Alaska Independence (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/02/politics/animal/main4407224.shtml) Party?

Trust is something you earn.

[Frankie's Market]

Maybe you mean to say you choose not to have any further part in discussing it, since you just discussed it.

No. I said that I wouldn't discuss certain aspects of the matter that are not relevant to the presidential campaign.

You need to re-read what I said previously.

[Keanu]

McCain chose Palin so he could stare at her ass for another two months, see for yourself..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RN5xbWtNSU

[TuNnL]

McCain chose Palin so he could stare at her ass for another two months, see for yourself... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RN5xbWtNSUAs was already noted (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=208356&postcount=32) earlier in another thread. ;)

[GregLee]

I must take issue with this false statement, as I never agreed we shouldn’t be discussing Bristol Palin.
It should be obvious from my using "listen" that I wasn't referring to you, since I've only read what you say. I've never heard you say anything at all. So far as I know.

[buzz1941]

Given that Palin is a governor, and Bush was a governor, that particular field is getting tainted as a barometer of political acumen.

[Kalihiboy]

Given that Palin is a governor, and Bush was a governor, that particular field is getting tainted as a barometer of political acumen.

Don't forget the late Vice President Spiro Agnew, former Governor of Maryland to add to that great field of past Governors.

McCain canceled an appearence on CNN's Larry King, guess his camp isnt too happy that his pick of Palin is held in scrutiny by journalists asking questions about her qualifications to lead the country as second in command.

Has Faux News questioned Palin, the GOP or her qualifications yet? :rolleyes:

Aj

[TuNnL]

Given that Palin is a governor, and Bush was a governor, that particular field is getting tainted as a barometer of political acumen.Let’s not forget Willy “I let tens of millions of dollars worth of cocaine pass through Mena (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1KHiZsDS4), Arkansas because me and my ’lil brother were cocaine addicts” Clinton. :cool:

[Random]

If there's a silver lining to this teen pregnancy affair, I hope it's this:

Now that organizations like Focus On The Family and the Family Research Council have made the decision to embrace and not condemn Gov. Palin's daughter for her pregnancy, then in the future, AFAIAC, these right-wing Christian Fundamentalists groups should not be in the business of condemning any politician (Democrat or Republican) for any kind of indiscretion their children may have committed.
Why are you so concern about those groups? Not many Republican supporters equate themselves to them.

[Random]

Given that Palin is a governor, and Bush was a governor, that particular field is getting tainted as a barometer of political acumen.
True, especially if you counted the former governor of Arkansas, Slick Willy.

[Kalihiboy]

Jimmy Carter was Governor of Georgia too, we've elected two Southern Democrats in the last 32 years. I don't think too many can fault President Carter's post-Presidency accomplishments from Habitat for Humanity to Nobel Peace Prize winner.

Well speaking for accomplishments there is George W. Bush who once owned the Texas Rangers, shortly after he sold the ball club, the team finally had success and made the playoffs in 1996 after 25 years as a franchise.

Clinton had near 70% approval ratings when he left office in 2001 despite a second term filled with nothing but investigations as to the DNA on a stained dress, impeachment, etc.

Despite all that, his approval ratings not too shaby.

Meanwhile George W. Bush might leave office with approval ratings in the 20-30% range. Good job George! I'm sure your daddy is proud, 20 years a Bush was in the White House in one form or the other since 1981 and each exit from the White House the American public was happy to see them go off into the sunset.

If you think people are sick of the Clinton's, well I got news for you...

Aj

[Frankie's Market]

More Palin revelations:

1) While the McCain camp uncovered records showing that Sarah Palin has continually registered herself as a Republican since 1982, Alaskan election officials confirm that husband Todd registered with the Alaska Independence Party in 1995 and 2000. Moreover, Gov. Palin addressed the AIP's 2007 convention by video hookup. All this seems to undercut the McCain campaign slogan of "Country First."

2) Palin accepted $4,500 in campaign contributions from an Alaskan oil company (VECO Corporation) during her unsuccessful bid for the lieutenant governor election in 2002. VECO has been linked to a bribery and corruption scandal that has led to an indictment of longtime Alaska Senator Ted Stevens. While the money that Palin received was not illegal, it once again undercuts her image as a reformer and a maverick against the state's old boy network.

By now, one has to seriously wonder how much longer McCain can keep Palin on board before she does irreperable damage to the GOP ticket.

[matapule]

Personal details re: Bristol herself, the identity of her child's father, the details of their relationship,..... all this is completely IRRELEVANT to the campaign.

Sarah Palin has dragged her daughter into the campaign. Sarah Palin has made it relevant to the campaign. Don't blame HT members.

[matapule]

Let’s not forget Willy “I let tens of millions of dollars worth of cocaine pass through Mena (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1KHiZsDS4), Arkansas because me and my ’lil brother were cocaine addicts” Clinton. :cool:

This post is nothing but SPAM. You do a disservice to HT. You "quote" Bill Clinton. Obviously, he never said that. If you are trying to be funny, it ain't. I will never be an apologist for Bill Clinton. He said enough things to get himself in trouble. But your post is garbage. If you want to post this kind of junk, do it on your "my space" site.

[TuNnL]

This post is nothing but SPAM. You do a disservice to HT. You "quote" Bill Clinton. Obviously, he never said that.Obviously, you haven’t watched the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1KHiZsDS4), or the documentary it was snipped from. Nor any of the reports filed by practicing journalists that have reached the same conclusions. No, you’re one of those “if it ’aint about bashing conservatives, then I don’t want to know.” I hear you. And here I thought you were one of the objective ones. Silly me. Of course Billy Bob didn’t say that. When you were raised by crooks to become crook-in-chief, why would you admit wrongdoing? He couldn’t even admit a so-called harmless sexual liason. :rolleyes:

If you are trying to be funny, it ain't ... But your post is garbage. If you want to post this kind of junk, do it on your "my space" site.Or what? You gonna call the feds on me? I stand by my post, every last word. If you can disprove any of it, I double-dog dare you. I bet you can’t. :p

[matapule]

Or what? You gonna call the feds on me? I stand by my post, every last word. If you can disprove any of it, I double-dog dare you. I bet you can’t. :p

Two words: supercilious sycophant

[matapule]

""[Pray] for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending out.....on a task that is from God....That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

What is this? The latest message from Al Quaida? The Taliban? Rev. Wright? James Dobson, FOTF?

No this is a quote from Sarah Palin as she addressed the members of the Assembly of God Church in Wasilla. This from the The Huffiington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/media-new-and-old-vet-pal_n_123363.html)

The HuffPost goes on to say:

"On an entirely different front, also disclosed by HuffPost, Palin, in supporting a $30 billion Alaskan national gas pipeline project, said: "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that."

So now God is in the oil business? This woman blasphemes. She could be praying for the refugees in Darfur, the ghetto children of Rio, or world peace even. But no, she prays for the industry in which her husband is employed.

The day of reckoning will come when this woman meets her god.

[matapule]

Vetting Sarah Palin is a serious affair. I think the discussions on this Board have been, for the most part, on topic. I do not support the following which has been posted on the Internet by someone trying to be funny.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-09-02-images-sarahpalinbikini.jpg

This picture is NOT true. This is not Sarah Palin. It is a fabrication. It has been PhotoShopped into something it isn't. Do not fall for this stuff. Keep your eye on the ball.

Here is the real picture

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/68/208036176_05fcaef86c.jpg?v=0

No crude comments please.

[TuNnL]

Two words: supercilious sycophantIn the words of timkona, “Ahhh...namecalling. A safe harbor.” :rolleyes:

[Leo Lakio]

Regarding Governors becoming President or Vice President in recent memory, good or bad, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Reagan.

[Frankie's Market]

Sarah Palin has dragged her daughter into the campaign. Sarah Palin has made it relevant to the campaign. Don't blame HT members.

If you're going to take me to task for supposedly "blaming" HT members, then please quote my remark completely. You left out my last sentence. It should have read,

Personal details re: Bristol herself, the identity of her child's father, the details of their relationship,..... all this is completely IRRELEVANT to the campaign. I don't know about anybody else here, but I choose not to have have any part in discussing this kind of information.

Note that I am not "blaming" or criticizing anyone else. Also note that I was strictly speaking for myself. What anyone else chooses to air out, that's up to them. I'm no moderator.

[Kalalau]

The coolest part is killing animals from the air. How very sporting. But why waste money on bullets? Just spread poisoned bait around, you can kill all the bears and wolves and beavers and deer and moose, etc, you'd ever want! A few sticks of dynamite in a lake, voila, all the dead fish a true American like Palin could ever hope for. What a hero.

[matapule]

But why waste money on bullets? Just spread poisoned bait around, you can kill all the bears and wolves and beavers and deer and moose, etc, you'd ever want!

Because there are a group of people who enjoy killing, just for killings sake. I have a relative who went deer hunting in Montana. He told me they got bored when they couldn't find any deer so they started shooting squirrels. He was laughing, saying it was just like an arcade at the Fair. Kill one and up pops another one.

I don't get it. Sure, kill an animal if you're going to eat it, but killing for killings sake is reprehensible. I'm embarrassed to tell you this story.

[Kalihiboy]

Regarding Governors becoming President or Vice President in recent memory, good or bad, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Reagan.

Like Reagan during his second term I'll quote him, "I forgot" or should I say I'd like to forget about him.

Aj

[scrivener]

Sincere kudos for sticking with your party, Scrivener!
Believe me: If I thought Barr had a shot at actually winning, I wouldn't vote for him. But in this state, the inclusion of the Libertarian Party on the general ballot is determined by the number of votes cast for that party in the election before. When I vote for Bob Barr in November, it will be strictly so I can help keep my party on the ballot.

[Kalalau]

Aah, the Great Communicator. I shall always remember, during the Peoples Park demonstrations in Berkeley, Governor Reagan saying, if I recall correctly, "If they want a blood bath, let it be now". And "You seen one redwood, you've seen em all!"

Here is a funny story about the Peoples Park era. National Guard troops circled Cal. The radicals shut down Sather Gate, no traffic could move through the main entrance to campus. They chanted, "Sather Gate Is Closed! Sather Gate Is Closed!". Then, the National Guard moved in and displaced the demonstrators. They established a perimiter at Sather Gate. No one was allowed through. The radicals gathered around and chanted, "Sather Gate Is Closed! Sather Gate Is Closed!" And indeed it was.

Then, the Guard established a perimiter at the Park itself. To taunt them, "hippie chicks" (their term, not mine!) took off their tops, and bore their bare breasts to the troops. How to possibly respond?? So on orders the troops...put on gas masks!!!

And then the time a National Guard helicpoter was patrolling the campus. Suddenly, the troopers spotted what looked like a massive demonstration beginning! Thousands upon thousands of students were pouring out of the buildings! Chaos! Disorder! So they released teargas cannisters. And gassed students leaving class for an ordinary hourly class change.

But it was not all fun. No. Sorry I forget the victim's name but indeed a demonstrator was killed, shot on his roof, he died. These are my memories of The Great Communicator as Governor of California, always a man to throw flaming gasoline upon stormy waters.

[Leo Lakio]

Like Reagan during his second term I'll quote him, "I forgot" or should I say I'd like to forget about him. "There you go again."

He's the reason I changed my party affiliation (at the time of his inauguration, from "Republican" to "Independent" - later changed to "Democratic," in order to participate in caucuses and primaries).

Years ago, there was a weekly news-quiz feature published in newspapers, aimed at students. One section was about Newsmakers, and featured a photo of someone in the news, along with a brief, first-person comment, ending with the question "Who am I?"

One week in 1994, it was a picture of the former President, with a comment along the lines of "I was President of the United States from 1980 to 1988, and was recently diagnosed as having Alzheimer's Disease. Who am I?" That ending query seemed particularly apt.

Sorry I forget the victim's name but indeed a demonstrator was killed, shot on his roof, he died.James Rector. There is a mural near the park, memorializing his death on that "Bloody Thursday" (May 15, 1969).

[Leo Lakio]

Sorry - post combined with above one.

[Ron Whitfield]

After (mostly) successfully righting the tables after Tricky Dick's unAmerican antics, we blew it again by voting Reagan into office, twice.
1980 was the beginning of the end for this country.

[matapule]

I shall always remember, during the Peoples Park demonstrations in Berkeley, Governor Reagan saying, if I recall correctly, "If they want a blood bath, let it be now". And "You seen one redwood, you've seen em all!"

OMG! How many of us were there? A trip down memory lane.

Oski, the gay mascot
Mario Savio
FSM (Free Speech Movement)
Betina Apfelberg
SNCC (Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee)
Hot damn, Viet Nam, Hell no, I won't go.
ho, ho, Ho Chi Minh
Brutus bathing in Sather fountain
Fraser's on Telegraph Ave.
The Rat for a beer
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Puff the Magic Dragon

Goooooo Bears!

[turtlegirl]

Believe me: If I thought Barr had a shot at actually winning, I wouldn't vote for him. But in this state, the inclusion of the Libertarian Party on the general ballot is determined by the number of votes cast for that party in the election before. When I vote for Bob Barr in November, it will be strictly so I can help keep my party on the ballot.

Wakarimashita - I totally understand, now I gotta give you extra kudos! :)

Sooo, has anyone tried to bring up this circumstance...
Overtime job mom + full time job dad + a lot of children (5!) + very small town = unsupervised children and unwed teenage mom children?

Just sayin'...

[Kalihiboy]

Here's one thing I remember about Reagan very early on in his presidency, some people will applaud his decision and others will lambast it. Remember the air Traffic Controllers Strike? He told the workers if you don't get back to work by Monday, your're all fired! And that is what he did.

Hawaii voted for Reagan in 1984, last time the state pulled for a Republican. But 48 other states also voted for him.

Here's a hypothetical question, if McCain had put Lingle on the ballot as VP going up against Obama, how would the state vote? I think they would go for Obama, but what do others think.

I dont think Alaska has ever voted Democrat in a national election before, correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Aj

[Random]

Sarah Palin has dragged her daughter into the campaign. Sarah Palin has made it relevant to the campaign. Don't blame HT members.
Did Bristol made any mention that she didn't want to be there? Because other than holding her youngest brother, I don't see her kicking and screaming while she got on-stage with her mother and her family.

Sighs. :rolleyes:

[Random]

Here's a hypothetical question, if McCain had put Lingle on the ballot as VP going up against Obama, how would the state vote? I think they would go for Obama, but what do others think.
Hey, I can only speak for my own vote.

But if you're looking for an analysis, considering the Hawaii's majority have a history of supporting Democrats most of the time, it's obvious.

[LikaNui]

Back on topic. The Associated Press is running a story about Palin that includes this:
The Arizona senator's campaign set the tone for the day early with a written statement that stood out for its admission that Palin is under siege _ it condemned "this vetting controversy" _ and for its attempt to blunt questions about how rigorously McCain and his campaign explored the background of a candidate who may get the nation's second most powerful job. It also suggested that Palin is a victim of gender bias in the media
"This nonsense is over," senior campaign adviser Steve Schmidt declared in the statement, lashing out at "the old boys' network" that he says runs media organizations. "The McCain campaign will have no further comment about our long and thorough process," Schmidt said.

I had to boldface the "long and thorough process" for the obvious reason that it's a ludicrous statement. :rolleyes:

[MyopicJoe]

LOL, listen to these MSNBC political commentators, when they think the microphones are off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg) (a bit of swearing).

[matapule]

LOL, listen to these MSNBC political commentators, when they think the microphones are off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg) (a bit of swearing).

That is funny! The sound on my laptop isn't too good and I couldn't hear all of it. Sure would like to see a transcript of what they said.

[Vanguard]

Sarah Palin has dragged her daughter into the campaign. Sarah Palin has made it relevant to the campaign. Don't blame HT members.

And John McCain is bringing further attention to it (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=625514).

[matapule]

LOL, listen to these MSNBC political commentators, when they think the microphones are off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg) (a bit of swearing).

And here is the transcript (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/peggy-noonan-mike-murphy_n_123647.html).

[MyopicJoe]

Ah, nice sluthing, matapule.

[Frankie's Market]

Hawaii voted for Reagan in 1984, last time the state pulled for a Republican. But 48 other states also voted for him.

Same thing happened in 1972, when Nixon swamped McGovern.

Here's a hypothetical question, if McCain had put Lingle on the ballot as VP going up against Obama, how would the state vote? I think they would go for Obama, but what do others think.

I think Obama's popularity and the tarnished image of the Republican party would have been more than enough to offset whatever support Lingle would receive. It might be close if you just counted the Oahu and Maui vote, but the rest of the state would be overwhelmingly for Obama.

I dont think Alaska has ever voted Democrat in a national election before, correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Alaska was a blue state in 1964, when Johnson won in a landslide over Goldwater. And the election before that, Nixon prevailed over Kennedy in the 49th state, but only by a thousand votes.

[matapule]

National Enquirer came out with story today that Sarah Palin had an affair with her husband's business partner (The Palin's have some sort of parttime fishing business that generates about $45K a year in income). The NE says this story is coming from some disgruntled family members. According to NE the whole Palin family is quite dysfunctional. The conflict between Sarah Palin and her MIL, Faye Palin, is well documented.

True or not? Who knows? The RNC is threatening the NE with a law suit if they don't retract. The NE is holding firm. According to NE they have staff in Alaska right now flushing out the story.

Here is the problem for the Republicans. Just one month ago, they were lauding the NE for breaking the Edwards story. Now they are calling the NE trash news. The Republicans are trying to have it both ways. So far, the Dems are steering clear.

[Peshkwe]

Here's something about that letter that's been going 'round:

http://fairlyconservative.com/the-race-for-president/a-chat-with-anne-kilkenny-from-alaska/

[LikaNui]

Well, Palin's speech was kinda cute, except it reminded me of this line from The Blues Brothers movie:
"You know what a Wish Sandwich is? It's when you have two pieces of bread and you WISH you had some meat."
Palin's speech had the bread, but absolutely no meat.

[U'ilani]

I liked her folksy, down-to-earthiness, and her attack on the elites and even big business (very populist!). Good job. The real test will be when she debates against Biden. The big question, though, is whether she can gain voters in those battleground states of Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. Too soon to tell, no matter what the overnight polling shows. But the debates will be interesting and will show if she really is ready for primetime or not.

[lavagal]

Reminded me tooo much of my GOP mom: cynical, sarcastic, gleefully itchby.

[U'ilani]

Hmm, I would probably like LikaNui's mom.

I think Peggy Noonan, she of the open microphone on MSN, was exactly right in how she described Palin:

"Because she jumbles up so many cultural categories, because she is a feminist not in the Yale Gender Studies sense but the How Do I Reload This Thang way, because she is a woman who in style, history, moxie and femininity is exactly like a normal American feminist and not an Abstract Theory feminist; because she wears makeup and heels and eats mooseburgers and is Alaska Tough, as Time magazine put it; because she is conservative, and pro-2nd Amendment and pro-life; and because conservatives can smell this sort of thing -- who is really one of them and who is not -- and will fight to the death for one of their beleaguered own; because of all of this she is a real and present danger to the American left, and to the Obama candidacy.
She could become a transformative political presence."

I've spent some time in Alaska for work and most recently for a family vacation and I will tell you that the women in Alaska are hardworking, gritty, no-nonsense folk whom I admire greatly. I don't believe this qualifies one for the office of VP, but it does, for me, compete adequately with Obama's story of "personal discovery".

But as I said, the debates are all-important. Then we will see if there is any meat to her personal narrative.

[Kalalau]

There is a really ugly rumor on the internetS now about the Palin family but of course I will not repeat it here. If it gets some mainstream press play, you will know exactly what I am talking about.

[Walkoff Balk]

Her story could be made into a dark movie about the perfect family with secrets starring Joan Allen.

[LikaNui]

Hmm, I would probably like LikaNui's mom. Thanks! She was a nurse who gave up her career to raise her family. Sweet, unassuming, religious, salt of the earth. A wonderful woman. (I'm just not sure why she got brought into this thread.)

But as I said, the debates are all-important. Then we will see if there is any meat to her personal narrative. Yep, that was my point too. She'll probably play well in rural small-town America, but poorly in urban metropolitan America.
She stumbled in the very brief part of her speech that was even fractionally close to "meat" and which was clearly from the teleprompter and not from her personally. I expect Biden will eat her alive in their debate. She'll cram and will likely have pat platform answers, but how will she handle the curveballs?
So far, the whole Republican convention has been no meat... just vicious negativity.

[Random]

There is a really ugly rumor on the internetS now about the Palin family but of course I will not repeat it here.
Wow. You are smart. :p

[Adri]

Re: "Troopergate"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26535299/

"EAGLE RIVER, Alaska, Sept. 3 - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the running mate for GOP presidential candidate John McCain, wrote e-mails that harshly criticized Alaska state troopers for failing to fire her former brother-in-law and ridiculed an internal affairs investigation into his conduct.

The e-mails were shown to The Washington Post by a former public safety commissioner, Walter Monegan, who was fired by Palin in July. Monegan has given copies of the e-mails to state ethics investigators to support his contention that he was dismissed for failing to fire Trooper Mike Wooten, who at the time was feuding with Palin's family.

/snip

Asked about the e-mails, Palin's campaign spokeswoman, Maria Comella, said that Palin was merely alerting officials to potential threats to her family and that there is no evidence that Palin ever ordered Wooten to be fired.

/snip

In August, Palin acknowledged that "pressure could have been perceived to exist, although I have only now become aware of it."

[Vanguard]

Sarah Palin's prepared speech included a phonetic spelling 'new-clear' (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/09/03/the-phoenetic-sarah-palin.aspx)

Palin mocks community organizers (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/4/0829/95775/196/585598)

Analysis: GOP contradicts self on Palin family (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cvn_measure_of_a_nation_palin_family_politics)

McCain: Palin Has Foreign Policy Experience Because ‘Alaska Is Right Next To Russia’ (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/03/mccain-russia-alaska/) (now McCain himself is saying it, not just Cindy)

[U'ilani]

Hmm, I would probably like LikaNui's mom.

Oops: It should read lavagal's mom, although I'm sure I would like LikaNui's mom as well.

[matapule]

Sarah Palin's husband has been a long time member of the Alaska Independence Party. Sarah Palin has attended their conventions, although never as an official member. Here is what the founder of the Alaska Independence Party wrote: “the fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government.”

With regard to these facts, this is what blogger "scientician" posted:

"It really doesn't take much imagination to know how it would be taken if Obama had ever attended a Muslim Brotherhood or Black Panther convention, nevermind if Michelle Obama was herself an actual registered member of either organization."

Interesting perspective. Could there possibly be a double standard in the GOP?

[GregLee]

Palin mocks community organizers (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/4/0829/95775/196/585598)
Will Palin's mockery be okay if McCain now praises community organizers? All the talk about the folly of McCain/Palin's pandering to the Republican Right, when the votes they need are elsewhere, misses the point that Pat Buchanan made a couple of days ago. The idea behind choosing Palin was to secure the Republican base so that, while Palin keeps the conservatives happy, McCain can move to the center, where he needs to be to win.

[Leo Lakio]

Shameful. Maybe Photoshopped. Still gonna post it.

NSFMealtimes.

http://blatherwatch.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/03/poo28215.jpg

[Ron Whitfield]

Looks like republican votes.

[Amati]

Will Palin's mockery be okay if McCain now praises community organizers? All the talk about the folly of McCain/Palin's pandering to the Republican Right, when the votes they need are elsewhere, misses the point that Pat Buchanan made a couple of days ago. The idea behind choosing Palin was to secure the Republican base so that, while Palin keeps the conservatives happy, McCain can move to the center, where he needs to be to win.
Speaking as a community organizer, Palin did have a valid point that having experience in community organizing does not equate to being a CEO of a major company, or to being experienced in leadership such as being Governor, etc. etc.

[MyopicJoe]

[/URL][URL="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/03/mccain-russia-alaska/"]McCain: Palin Has Foreign Policy Experience Because ‘Alaska Is Right Next To Russia’ (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/09/03/the-phoenetic-sarah-palin.aspx) (now McCain himself is saying it, not just Cindy)

Does that mean Linda Lingle is a foreign policy expert with China?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I think Peggy Noonan, she of the open microphone on MSN, was exactly right in how she described Palin:

"Because she jumbles up so many cultural categories, because she is a feminist not in the Yale Gender Studies sense but the How Do I Reload This Thang way, because she is a woman who in style, history, moxie and femininity is exactly like a normal American feminist and not an Abstract Theory feminist; because she wears makeup and heels and eats mooseburgers and is Alaska Tough, as Time magazine put it; because she is conservative, and pro-2nd Amendment and pro-life; and because conservatives can smell this sort of thing -- who is really one of them and who is not -- and will fight to the death for one of their beleaguered own; because of all of this she is a real and present danger to the American left, and to the Obama candidacy.
She could become a transformative political presence."

I've spent some time in Alaska for work and most recently for a family vacation and I will tell you that the women in Alaska are hardworking, gritty, no-nonsense folk whom I admire greatly. I don't believe this qualifies one for the office of VP, but it does, for me, compete adequately with Obama's story of "personal discovery".

boooyah.

But as I said, the debates are all-important. Then we will see if there is any meat to her personal narrative.


Now, I gotta say this: I love Joe Biden. He was always one of the more entertaining debaters. I hope he realizes that he had better take his gloves off when he debates Palin, because the Govermamma is coming with her brass-knuckle polish.

[Random]

Does that mean Linda Lingle is a foreign policy expert with China?
No, with the Philippines. :p

[GregLee]

I love Joe Biden. He was always one of the more entertaining debaters. I hope he realizes that he had better take his gloves off when he debates Palin, because the Govermamma is coming with her brass-knuckle polish.
No, he'd better keep kid gloves on. Just because she can be sharp with him doesn't mean he can with her. It's not fair to us men, but that's just the way it is. She's a girl. And Joe Biden better go into politeness-training before the debate, because he has a reputation for letting his tongue run away from him when he gets excited.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

in a fistfight, I'd agree, but he will lose more points if he treats her in a debate any differently than he would have HRC. He will lose the independents if he appears patronizing. Keep away from her family, hold her accountable for experience and public service record.

[Frankie's Market]

No, he'd better keep kid gloves on. Just because she can be sharp with him doesn't mean he can with her. It's not fair to us men, but that's just the way it is.

"That's just the way it is." Sez you.

Wouldn't the Republicans love it if everybody drank from that pitcher of kool-aid? :rolleyes:

For the voters who happen to take this election seriously and want to make the right decision about who is best qualified to be a "heartbeat away from the Presidency," punches can't and shouldn't be pulled.

She's a girl.

Hmmm, she's been billed as a hardworking mother (not "girl") of 5 children and able to handle the job of Alaska Governor. Someone who, in her own words, "stood up to the special interests, the lobbyists, big oil companies, and the good-ol' boys network.

Now, are voters supposed to accept all those things at face value,.... and then turn around and expect that she needs to be handled with kid gloves in a debate? GMAB!

How is anyone supposed to have confidence in Sarah Palin doing her part to bring about reform in Washington if the normal rules of campaign and politicking have to be changed for her, because of her gender? If she actually gets into office, do you think that the forces of corruption will go easy on her and make accomodations, just because she's a woman?

Nothing personal, but I hope your viewpoint is a minority one. If it isn't, then as the old saying goes,.... voters get the kind of govt. they deserve.

[GregLee]

Nothing personal, but I hope your viewpoint is a minority one.
I'm not giving my own personal view of how Biden should treat Palin (I don't care what he does to her). Rather, I'm giving my estimate of how those small-town, working women with traditional values from Ohio, Pennsylvania and the like, who are supposed to be swing voters, are going to react, if he beats up on her. They're not going to like it. He could score lots of debating points, but lose votes.

[Peshkwe]

*snort*

You wanna play with the big dogs, you'd best bite like an alpha bitch...and not whine like a cur when bitten.

[Frankie's Market]

I'm not giving my own personal view of how Biden should treat Palin (I don't care what he does to her). Rather, I'm giving my estimate of how those small-town, working women with traditional values from Ohio, Pennsylvania and the like, who are supposed to be swing voters, are going to react, if he beats up on her. They're not going to like it. He could score lots of debating points, but lose votes.

And your response right there says why Biden shouldn't hold back.

Small town voters. Traditional values voters. Most of them are going to be supporting Palin anyway, no matter what. So there's no point in Biden acting like Mr. Rogers in the debate to pacify those voters. He needs to persuade voters in the middle who want to hear what the candidates have to say on issues of substance. And if he has to hit hard to show himself as the better person to lead our country in a heartbeat, then that's he will do, with no apologies offered.

[Composite 2992]

Biden should pull no punches in a debate.

Palin has to show what she can do on her own two feet. Everyone will get to see what she's really made of when someone's not feeding her a stirring oratory via a teleprompter.

If she can't hold her own against a fellow candidate in an organized debate, then she wouldn't be able to handle the presidency (should that come to pass) in the adversarial world of international affairs.

[GregLee]

Most of them are going to be supporting Palin anyway, no matter what.
You understand the term "swing voter"? If what you say is so, then the current consensus among election analysts about who the swing voters are is simply wrong. Perhaps.

I'm not a swing voter; I will vote for Obama/Biden no matter how well or poorly Biden does in debating Palin. Biden should not rationally tailor his tactics to people like me. Are you a swing voter? If not, your own personal reaction to Biden's or Palin's tactics really isn't relevant to a political analysis. We are talking about politics here, aren't we?

[Leo Lakio]

The Hawai`i Connection: Gov. Palin attended HPU briefly in 1982; I did not know that. (Did I miss that earlier?)
Apparently, it was one of the five colleges she attended over a six-year period.

Story here (http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20080904/CVN.Palin.Education/).

[Frankie's Market]

You understand the term "swing voter"?

Someone who is not dogmatically locked into supporting a particular party. Someone who is open to supporting any candidate based on issues that are important to the swing voter in question.

If what you say is so, then the current consensus among election analysts about who the swing voters are is simply wrong. Perhaps.

You speak as if election analysts all speak as a monolith. In my experience, the study of the exact same election results can have hundreds of different interpretations and explanations. And in some cases, these different interpretations can be contradictory to each other.

I can offer my viewpoint, and you can take it or leave it, if you want. I don't consider someone to be a "swing voter" if they go into a debate, predisposed to the thinking that it is okay for the female candidate to go in there, with attacks and guns blazing. But her male counterpart is not entitled to the same tactics,..... all because of gender.

To me, your scenario is describing voters who are already predisposed towards supporting Palin. And when you talked about voters from small towns and those who identify with traditional values, these are also demographics that play into Palin's strengths. You seemed to be describing voters who are tailor-made to be receptive to the Alaska Govenor. That may not have been your intention, but that's my take on it.

In any case,... we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. You want to think that Biden has to enter into this debate arena like its Romper Room and be compelled to play nice, then whatever. To me, Biden can't worry about pacifying these voters who aren't inclined to support him anyway.

[pzarquon]

Jon Stewart's "Daily Show" segment on Sarah Palin's campaign (http://de.sperate.com/post/48794395/jon-stewart-on-sarah-palin-and-the-gop), and the GOP's official talking points, is fantastic.

Also notable, thinking about who's actually most reliably bringing up Sarah Palin's family (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gwVVaTDmEnfey52iYOpLi3LBvxWAD92VKK000), which Obama expressly declared as off limits and inappropriate in political discourse.

Finally, the Associated Press fact-checking her "big speech" (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check) last night.

[Vanguard]

Does that mean Linda Lingle is a foreign policy expert with China?

It means I have more foreign policy experience than Sarah Palin because I've been to over a dozen foreign countries, met one foreign president, and two foreign UN ambassadors :p

[Ron Whitfield]

I'd vote for you before any republican (providing you're not one!).

[matapule]

I'd vote for you before any republican (providing you're not one!).

I'd vote for Vanguard, regardless of affiliation. Since s/he is an HT'er s/he has got to be a good person. In fact there are any number of people on this Board who could do a better job than McPain/Falin. Seriously.

[tutusue]

I'm receiving so many personal emails from friends and family about this subject that I've stopped replying! No time! My last response to all of them contained the applicable HT URLs! ;)

One of my friends emailed photos of her s-i-l...a ringer for Gov. Palin! I referred my friend to Leno's show in case the writers are looking for a Palin impersonator! :D The show already has an Obama impersonator!

[Peshkwe]

Try to catch the Daily show tonight...tis gooood!

[Vanguard]

I'd vote for Vanguard, regardless of affiliation. Since s/he is an HT'er s/he has got to be a good person. In fact there are any number of people on this Board who could do a better job than McPain/Falin. Seriously.

You made my day! :D Thanks, Matapule! I'm a guy in case there was any confusion.

[Kalalau]

Palin looks like Elaine Benes from the Seinfeld show, to me. There are videos of her at her church carrying on. Ordinarily I'd think a person's religion ought to be off limits in a political campaign but since she wants to inflict her religious beliefs as a matter of government policy you have to consider her faith. Abstinence Only kids have the highest rates of VD, AIDS, and unwanted pregnancy. Do we really want creationism taught in schools when the rest of the world is leaping ahead of us already because of weak science education in America. I fear anybody who wants Jesus to come back and believes a nuclear war would do it. Reminds me of a conversation I had once with a sailor beside San Diego Bay. He was from a polaris nuclear sub, and he was waiting for the nuclear war to bring back Jesus. How do you even draw the line between religion and superstition? Separation of Church and State has always been a really good idea and its an especially good idea when one's faith might be a motivation for them to end all life on Earth.

[matapule]

I fear anybody who wants Jesus to come back and believes a nuclear war would do it. Reminds me of a conversation I had once with a sailor beside San Diego Bay. He was from a polaris nuclear sub, and he was waiting for the nuclear war to bring back Jesus. How do you even draw the line between religion and superstition? Separation of Church and State has always been a really good idea and its an especially good idea when one's faith might be a motivation for them to end all life on Earth.

What is the difference between Muslim fundamentalists like Osama bin Laden and Christian fundamentalists like Sarah Palin? Nothing.

[Vanguard]

What the Palin pregnancy says about US sex laws. (http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2008/09/what-paylin-pregnancy-says-about-us-sex.html)

[turtlegirl]

Thanks, Vanguard! That was a very interesting read!

[Frankie's Market]

The McCain campaign has sezied upon the notion that executive experience in govt. trumps legislative experience in an effort to prop up Sarah Palin as being more prepared for the Presidency than Barack Obama is. Let's stop for a moment and assume that statement is true. It would lead to the following questions, then;

1) How could McCain say that he was a better candidate for President than Mitt Romney (governor of Massachusetts), Rudy Giuliani (mayor of NYC), and Mike Huckabee (governor of Arkansas) when McCain himself has ZERO experience as a chief executive?

2) If executive experience is all that important, then McCain should have given more serious consideration to Linda Lingle. While Palin was mayor of Wasilla for 6 years and governor of Alaska for a year and a half, Lingle was mayor of Maui for 8 years and governor here for almost 6 years now.

The size of the respective municipalities/states are also striking. Maui County has over 140,000 people, while Wasilla has less than 9,000. The entire state of Hawaii's population is over 1.2 million, while Alaska is estimated at roughly 670,000.

When you make the comparison between Lingle and Palin, surely, the choice for McCain should have clear, right????

Well,.... of course I know the choice wasn't that simple. There would have been several problems with putting Lingle on the ticket.

1) Lingle is currently single. American public is used to the idea of their Presidents and Vice Presidents having a spouse and children.

2) Lingle is of the Judaism faith. This would not play well with Christian fundamentalists. Ironica