The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

[Kalalau]

There are several sites dedicated to exposing McCain's record as a POW, when he did propaganda and informed for the Communists and sold out his fellow Americans. These sites claim to be created by Vietnam Veterans who oppose him because of his betrayal. If they are correct, McCain's betrayal led directly to the deaths of many Americans. It is a mark of the decency of the Obama campaign that these accusations have not been used, unlike the lies from the washed up drunks and barflies used by Mr. Bush in his "Swiftboat" attacks against the legitimate war hero John Kerry in 2004. These sites are not hard to find. Happy hunting.

[matapule]

I keep asking myself, can I believe the stories this "war hero" tells about himself when he uses such dirty, untrue, miisleading campaign ads against his opponent, especially this last weekend of the campaign?

McPalin, all I can say is too little too late too dumb.

The true heros of the VietNam war era were the ones who refused to serve in an unjust war. McCain is not a hero in my opinion.

[matapule]

Is this all the Republicans have left in their abysmal arsenal? What an embarrassment this party has become. Glad I'm no longer a member! And, no, I'm not a Democrat either!

You tell 'em Granny! I'm happy to see you, and blogger Helen, and old fogies like myself, with such passion. Seniors rock! Pay attention youngsters!

[Vanguard]

While I have great respect for what McCain went thru, I don't believe for a minute that anyone can come out of 5 1/2 years as a tortured POW unscathed. McCain is the poster child for that.

McCain's fellow prisoners (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mBi7d6e5KI) would attest to that, but judging from their reactions, they must have heard and seen much worse!

[Vanguard]

Kucinich: Raid conducted to help McCain (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/15048.html)

[Vanguard]

Tampa Bay, Florida McCain rally draws 1,000 supporters (http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2008/11/tampa-tampa-ral.html).

Stadium capacity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_James_Stadium): 65,857

[Leo Lakio]

I'll bet Sen. McCain was relieved to finally get Vice President Cheney's endorsement over the weekend. Just the boot boost their campaign was looking for! :rolleyes:

[Kalalau]

Final Rove electoral map sees large Obama win over McCain--From the LA Times Online Edition

Well, the final day before the official presidential voting and the final version of Karl Rove's exclusive national electoral map sees a strong victory for Barack Obama, gaining the most electoral votes since Bill Clinton's lopsided win over Bob Dole in 1996.

According to the research of compiled state polls by Karl Rove & Co., the hypothetical electoral college numbers suggest an Obama win over the Republican ticket of John McCain and Sarah Palin of 338 electoral votes to 200.

For the final report, Rove has allocated each state to the candidate leading there in state polls today.

According to these calculations, Obama takes hard-fought Florida. But McCain edges ahead in Indiana, Missouri, North Dakota and North Carolina.

Rove notes that Obama and McCain are in dead heats in North Carolina and Missouri, but the most recent polls over the weekend show a trend toward the Republican ticket. "Florida, too, could end up in McCain’s column," Rove adds, "since he’s benefited from recent movement in the state." But it's not enough for the Arizona senator to capture the necessary 270.

[LikaNui]

George Bush clearly isn't the brightest bulb in the chandelier, and we clearly need a president who has some intelligence.
Like George Bush, John McCain also had a college reputation as a party boy. McCain entered the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis. There, McCain came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel, he did not always obey the rules, and that contributed to his being almost the very bottom of his class, ranking a miserable 894th out of 899. He did well in academic subjects that interested him, such as literature and history, but studied only enough to pass subjects he struggled with, such as mathematics. McCain graduated in 1958.
Compare that with Barack Obama. A graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he had the rare honor of serving as president of the Harvard Law Review. Obama worked as a community organizer and practiced as a civil rights attorney before serving three terms in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004. He taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004. He graduated with a Juris Doctor (J.D.) magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991.
I want a president who can thoughtfully look at his options and then make correct decisions.
John McCain's biggest decision in this campaign was whom to choose as his running mate. He chose Sarah Palin, quite likely the least qualified person in the entire political arena. McCain's very first important decision was a massive failure. What decisions would he make in the oval office? :eek:

[Vanguard]

Election Day Freebees:

Starbucks (http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=50042&catid=2): "To ensure we are in compliance with election law, we are extending our offer to all customers who request a tall brewed coffee." "I voted" sticker not mentioned (probably a good idea to bring it anyway)

Krispy Kreme (http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2008/10/30/krispy-kreme-giving-out-free-donuts-to-voters-on-election-day/): Requires "I voted" stickers, apparently

Ben and Jerry's (http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2008/11/03/free-ben-and-jerrys-scoops-for-voters-on-election-day/): 5pm - 8pm + "I voted" sticker

[Kelly0040]

aww. I have my receipt with my special electronic machine voting code on it that I got after standing in line for an hour on Saturday. That's kind of like a "I voted" sticker...kind of

[Vanguard]

"Democrats, vote Wednesday": Phony Virginia Flier Culprit Found (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/03/phony-virgnia-flier-culpr_n_140739.html), "no charges would be filed"

Ohio district touchscreens would only accept votes for Ralph Nader (http://blog.dispatch.com/vote08/2008/11/obama_mccain_missing_from_some.shtml)

Voting problems reported at Tampa Bay, Florida (http://media.myfoxtampabay.com/youdecide/nov08/problem.html)

Why John McCain will win (http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/11/03/tbruce_11103/)

[Adri]

Woohoo! He's over 270 (assuming the estimates are right)!

[Walkoff Balk]

The Democrats are Kicking ass and taking names.

[sansei]

:( hi this is sansei and this is the worst day of my life since obama was elected as president and one thing though,they havent counted the hawaii and west coast vote so their maybe a chance for Mccain and palin.

well thank's for your time:(

[Adri]

sansei: McCain has conceded so the rest of the votes in the presidential/vice presidential race do not matter anymore. Obama won.

[Ron Whitfield]

What a shame for you, sansei, as this is the best day in this country's history.
Too bad you weren't a part of it.

At least, have a good night.

[Walkoff Balk]

:( hi this is sansei and this is the worst day of my life since obama was elected as president and one thing though,they havent counted the hawaii and west coast vote so their maybe a chance for Mccain and palin.

well thank's for your time:(
As the late Lakers broadcaster Chick Hearn would say:
This game's in the refrigerator: the door is closed, the lights are out, the eggs are cooling, the butter's getting hard, and the Jell-O (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jell-O)'s jigglin'!: This game's in the refrigerator: the door is closed, the lights are out, the eggs are cooling, the butter's getting hard, and the Jell-O (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jell-O)'s jigglin'!:

[Ron Whitfield]

WB, Chickie baby would have only said it once, but this is a night for exceptions!

[sansei]

:confused: hi this is sansei and in response to adri,the vote's here and in the west coast do count is mccain even though they conceded,they would have a chance and if mccain may happen to become our pres,i'd then smile.

well thank's for your time:confused:

[Adri]

Obama only needed 270 of the electoral votes to win. He has 338 (at last count). Even if McCain got all the rest of the votes, he could not win.

[timkona]

Libs like Income Redistribution right up until you ask them to pay for your beer at the bar.

Funny la'dat.

[Composite 2992]

sansei: McCain has conceded so the rest of the votes in the presidential/vice presidential race do not matter anymore. Obama won.

Here's what the NY Times has to say about Obama's victory:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/opinion/05wed1.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

"Mr. Obama won the election because he saw what is wrong with this country: the utter failure of government to protect its citizens. He promised to lead a government that does not try to solve every problem but will do those things beyond the power of individual citizens: to regulate the economy fairly, keep the air clean and the food safe, ensure that the sick have access to health care, and educate children to compete in a globalized world.


This is about America being returned to its citizens. It's about civil rights being restored to the people who make this country what it is.

It's a time for better cultural understanding within our own borders. It's what America was supposed to be about but so many seem to have forgotten some of the most basic constitutional principles in the last eight years. The right to be heard. The right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. The protection of the weak and poor. And the fundamentals of justice.

It's about an America that doesn't condone torture. It's about an America whose agenda is determined by its citizens, not by a select few in darkened rooms. And its about an America that will once again earn a level of respect in the international arena.

But it won't be easy. Obama has to overcome eight years of terrible mistakes. Meanwhile, the world is watching.

[Vanguard]

:confused: hi this is sansei and in response to adri,the vote's here and in the west coast do count is mccain even though they conceded,they would have a chance and if mccain may happen to become our pres,i'd then smile.

well thank's for your time:confused:

Despite the election being called for Obama, I am sure that they will continue to diligently count the votes until 100% of precincts in all 50 states are reported. We will see full results, perhaps by tomorrow.

[Adri]

/snip
But it won't be easy. Obama has to overcome eight years of terrible mistakes. Meanwhile, the world is watching.


Yup, the world is watching the the global stocks are rising

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/04/world-markets-cheer-obama/?eref=politicalflipper

I hope the NY Times article is right about the rest too :)

[LikaNui]

Obama has to overcome eight years of terrible mistakes. Among many fascinating images we've seen tonight, I really enjoyed the person in Times Square holding up a huge sign that said
Bush, You're Fired


:p

[Vanguard]

But it won't be easy. Obama has to overcome eight years of terrible mistakes. Meanwhile, the world is watching.

And he has 4 years to do it! If Obama doesn't fix 8 years of mistakes in 4 years to the peoples' satisfaction, we'll have to deal with 4 more years of Sarah Palin or George P Bush. :confused:

[Amati]

:( hi this is sansei and this is the worst day of my life since obama was elected as president and one thing though,they havent counted the hawaii and west coast vote so their maybe a chance for Mccain and palin.

Worst day of your life? Then you are one lucky guy. The "worst day of my life" is certainly a heady decision, and not even in the running is an election which is decided by electoral college votes.

Worst day? How about a child's death? Or best friend's death? How about a family member's betrayal? Being sent to a war you don't support? Family member being addicted? Jail for a loved one? Child with life threatening illness. My Gawd, the list goes on and on what could constitute "the worst day of my life" for the average person. You must be very sheltered if an election is your worst day.

Heck, your having to hide in the bathroom whenever someone (I think you said 7th Day Adventist?) knocks on the door, that might qualify as a worst day. Fear must be one of the worst things.

Get over the election results. It is what it is. Concentrate now on how you can make things better.

I remain unconvinced that Sensei is not just pulling the collective HT leg.

[Vanguard]

I didn't even bat an eye when John Kerry lost the election. I said to myself, "Well, we had the choice of War Man, or Ketchup Man", and they were both quite awful.

Ross Perot remains a major influence in my political thought process. :D

[LikaNui]

Regarding Bush... one of my favorite bumper stickers:

1/20/09 - The End Of An Error


Amene.

[sansei]

:( hi this is sansei and in response to amati,im not pulling HT'S leg and this is in my own heart,no joke,obama will set us back many year's due to a certain bill by senator a who'm i wont mention and we'll be living back in the year's of the old way's,this is very sad.

well thank's for your time:(

[Adri]

sansei: Which bill? Which senator? Seriously, I am interested.

[sophielynette]

I have to say that this is a surreal feeling for me right now because I'm realizing, this is the first time I've really been aware of a change in Presidents. The last election there was no change; the one before that I was at the age where I really wasn't conscious of it. And putting all politics aside, I feel really lucky to have gotten to participate in and witness one of those monumentous events that is going to be spoken of in history classes a hundred years from now. I think we're all lucky.

[Vanguard]

Nader's last minute press conference (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/politics/Nader_holds_last_minute_press_conferencerally_at_I ndependence_Mall.html)

Network reports Rep. Rahm Emanuel has agreed to be Obama's chief of staff. (http://thepage.time.com/2008/11/05/offered/?xid=rss-page)

John McCain: What went wrong (http://www.clusterstock.com/2008/11/john-mccain-what-went-wrong-) (be sure that we will find many articles of this type for a while)

[Kalihiboy]

:( hi this is sansei and this is the worst day of my life since obama was elected as president and one thing though,they havent counted the hawaii and west coast vote so their maybe a chance for Mccain and palin.

well thank's for your time:(

I knew it was over when Obama already had 185 electoral votes because the west coast would guarantee him the election. This one was over with quite early. Thank goodness.

Aj

[Stephen]

I have to laugh at the ridiculous amount of Bush bashing - and true misunderstanding of what he faced and had to work with during his Presidency. Try to read this article with an open mind . . .

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB122584386627599251-lMyQjAxMDI4MjA1NTgwNDUzWj.html

Ragin Cajun

[Linkmeister]

I have to laugh at the ridiculous amount of Bush bashing - and true misunderstanding of what he faced and had to work with during his Presidency. Try to read this article with an open mind . . .

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB122584386627599251-lMyQjAxMDI4MjA1NTgwNDUzWj.html

Ragin Cajun

Right. The Wall Street Journal's op-ed pages are unbiased.

Who are you trying to kid?

[Stephen]

Open Mind. Try it.

[Vanguard]

FoxNews' Doocy confuses Obama with random black male voter (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/04/doocy-black-obama/)

Ralph Nader uses the phrase "Uncle Tom" to describe Barack Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo)

The McCain Belt - Districts that appeared stronger for McCain in 2008 than for Bush in 2004 (http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/11/the_mccain_belt.php)

Suddenly, it may be cool to be an American again (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/world/AP/story/758237.html) And to think I was tempted to call myself Canadian when I went to Europe some years ago. :p

[matapule]

I have to laugh at the ridiculous amount of Bush bashing - and true misunderstanding of what he faced and had to work with during his Presidency. Try to read this article with an open mind . . .

I have read your article with an open mind. I find that the article is full of inaccuracies, falsehoods, and statements not supported by the facts. My opinion of the article is that it is self serving neocon propaganda.

To compare Bush II to Truman is a travesty. If there is "true misunderstanding of what he faced and what he had to work with", then it is from your end. The fact of the matter is he had a budget with a surplus when he entered office 8 long years ago. He is going to leave office with a nation that is on the verge of bankruptcy with a debt that will impact future generations. He entered office with a nation that was virtually in peace 8 long years ago. He leaves office with a nation that is bogged down in an unwinnable conflict in the Middle East costing close to $1B per day. He entered office winning the electoral vote (even that was probably stolen in Florida) but not the popular vote 8 long years ago. He leaves office a pariah, even to his own political party.

No Stephen, good riddance to him. He has been a disaster to the American people and the American nation. In my opinion, history will judge him harshly in the lowest ranks of US Presidents. He is deserving of the repute with which the nation holds him.

Now is the time for us to believe, once again, in ourselves. We can overcome the obstacles left by W, his programs, his policies, and his bad decisions. We can do it. YES WE CAN!

[cyleet99]

Thanks for the link, Stephen. That piece echoes my feelings...lame duck presidents in general make good scapegoats, and Dubya makes an exceptional scapegoat. Despite the repeated ugliness thrown his way and being blamed for every problem under the sun, I am glad he was our president. Give me a strong-charactered Texan any day as opposed to other weak-willed "follow the crowd" politicians. Oh, and Laura was the best First Lady I have seen in office during my lifetime. Michelle has big shoes to fill.

Obama seems strong-willed now, but his Senate voting record is questionable. Wonder what they will call him at the end of his term?
I'm looking forward to seeing how he plans to solve all the ills of the world.

[cyleet99]

Y'all can back off any time now.

Try read about Harry Truman. I think GWB will get there, too.

[tutusue]

[...]
I'm looking forward to seeing how he plans to solve all the ills of the world.
Me too, cyleet, altho' "all" might be a bit of an exaggeration. ;) There are no guarantees. Just hope, at this point. Only time will tell.

[cyleet99]

Vanguard, I saw that bullying interview of Ralph Nader last night. He did not call Obama an Uncle Tom. That journalist went way over the top to be chastising to Nader.

[cyleet99]

Said in jest, TS.:p I don't think he will do it either, but I have hope that some things will get better.

[matapule]

I'm looking forward to seeing how he plans to solve all the ills of the world.

No, it is up to us to solve the ills of the world. Less government is better government. Presidents don't make things better, we make things better. We, the nation, need to change our attitude now. Stop looking at the Presidency as your mother who is going to take care of you. We need to take care of ourselves. We can do it! YES WE CAN!

[Ron Whitfield]

Dubya makes an exceptional scapegoat. Despite the repeated ugliness thrown his way and being blamed for every problem under the sun, I am glad he was our president. Give me a strong-charactered Texan any day as opposed to other weak-willed "follow the crowd" politicians. Oh, and Laura was the best First Lady I have seen in office during my lifetime. Michelle has big shoes to fill.

Bush hasn't even begun to get the blame he truly deserves. We don't know fully what he's pulled and certainly don't know what he's doing now or in the next 11 weeks before he's finally gone.

Also, please, tell us one thing Laura Bush has done with her 8 years as the most powerful woman in the world?

[AlohaKine]

Vanguard, I saw that bullying interview of Ralph Nader last night. He did not call Obama an Uncle Tom. That journalist went way over the top to be chastising to Nader.


Ralph Nader - Barrack could be an "uncle Tom". And right outta left field too. Any publicity is good publicity when you are fading from peoples minds and returning to nobody status. :)

Today a co-worker of mine called him a "black Jimmy Carter". I do fear this.

[Vanguard]

Vanguard, I saw that bullying interview of Ralph Nader last night. He did not call Obama an Uncle Tom. That journalist went way over the top to be chastising to Nader.

Whatever we wish to call it, Nader indeed used the phrase "Uncle Tom" to describe Obama taking a possible path (from Nader's POV).

I voted for Ralph Nader in the past. Twice (not this year, of course). I voted for him because I had more faith in him and my perception of his political stance than Gore and Kerry.

What Nader did during that newscast was help discredit those who share his views. He willingly accepted an interview with FoxNews, widely believed to be the most conservative major cable news network (i.e. anti-thesis to Nader), and exposed himself in such a way that could be exploited. It's even better than when Howard Dean yelled in Iowa (looking back, it was more like a martial arts kiai for politicians :) )! Did you see how those journalists gleefully carved Nader's political career tombstone on the air?

Nader didn't HAVE to use the phrase "Uncle Tom". I believe he could have made his point just fine without choosing that particular soundbyte. Now who's going to take up Nader's political causes? Cynthia McKinney?

[Adri]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581

Interesting article on campaign secrets including:

"/snip

One senior aide said that Nicolle Wallace had told Palin to buy three suits for the convention and hire a stylist. But instead, the vice presidential nominee began buying for herself and her family—clothes and accessories from top stores such as Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus. According to two knowledgeable sources, a vast majority of the clothes were bought by a wealthy donor, who was shocked when he got the bill. Palin also used low-level staffers to buy some of the clothes on their credit cards. The McCain campaign found out last week when the aides sought reimbursement. One aide estimated that she spent "tens of thousands" more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband. Some articles of clothing have apparently been lost. An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast," and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.

A Palin aide said: "Governor Palin was not directing staffers to put anything on their personal credit cards, and anything that staffers put on their credit cards has been reimbursed, like an expense. Nasty and false accusations following a defeat say more about the person who made them than they do about Governor Palin."

/snip"

[cyleet99]

Stop looking at the Presidency as your mother who is going to take care of you.

Absolutely, MP. I completely agree with you.

Also, please, tell us one thing Laura Bush has done with her 8 years as the most powerful woman in the world?

http://www.firstladies.org/biographies/firstladies.aspx?biography=44

Nader didn't HAVE to use the phrase "Uncle Tom". I believe he could have made his point just fine without choosing that particular soundbyte.

You are correct; it was inflammatory wording. The attack on him by the journalist was uncalled for and mean; I loved his response.

[Walkoff Balk]

Worst day of your life? Then you are one lucky guy. The "worst day of my life" is certainly a heady decision, and not even in the running is an election which is decided by electoral college votes.

I thought the worst day was on Saturday when UH lost to Utah St. Then, Punahou Guy was victorious to more than even things out until this Saturday when UH plays on the road again.

[Linkmeister]

Nobel Prize winning economist, NYT columnist (and guy who's been right about the Bush Administration since 2001) Paul Krugman noticed that WSJ article linked above and responded (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/meanwhile-in-an-alternative-universe/):Yes, George W. Bush’s status as the most disliked man ever to occupy the White House shows that America was not worthy of him. And attacks on Bush gave aid and comfort to his enemies — unlike the firehose of abuse that will be directed against President Obama, which will of course be an expression of true patriotism.

[cyleet99]

[Okay, y'all. My DH wants to say something.

(Can we do this? Two posters under one name? Will DH be okay with my avatar? Will Mel and Ryan ban me?:o)

So heere's my other half!]

After the results last night, I sat back, lit a cigar and wasn't sure if I had sex or not. (Clinton definition) Though I am a Republican (Extinct in Hawaii), I was rather optimistic that the Dems were now in office and our financial future is in the hands of people like Barney Frank. Anyone who is clever enough to be able to get out of a political problem like his roommate running a gay bordello out of his Georgetown townhouse, might just be able to creatively solve some of the complex problems we now face.

The election is over. You guys take yourself way too seriously. Recognize the comedy and tragedy in both parties and start thinking like Americans so we can fix this stuff.

I will now go back in hiding so you folks be nice to my AF.

[Stephen]

Matapule,

While I'm not trying to be a condescending pr*&k, I probably will come off as one.

A quick study of politics will teach you that the President's primary power is in his/her ability to set the national agenda. Last time I checked, it was Congress' responsiblity to originate, draft and pass legislation. And then, the President has the ability to sign or veto that legislation.

So to place the entirety of the blame on Bush's shoulders is, well short sighted.

While I agree with you that the money that is being spent/wasted/whatever in the Middle East has contributed to our growing debt, it is miniscule in it's effect on our current financial crisis. A great deal of the money that being spent in the Middle East is filtered right back into our economy via contracts with domestic producers (and I know there are some shady deals out there) and our soldiers.

Lax lending standards that originated with Bush 1 and Clinton, as well as the blessing during Clinton's presidency to allow financial institutions and insurance institutions to merge/practice both are the reason our economy is in the proverbial crapper.

The unwinnable conflict is an interesting topic. And another opportunity for a lesson in politics. The President does not have the ability to declare war - Congress, and 90% of the Congress voted for US intervention in Iraq, possesses the right to declare war. Do I think Bush looked at reports and somehow pulled the wool over Congress' eyes on the reports? Not really, because they saw the same reports. They were all equally fooled. And now we're in a sticky situation - but I can't see where it is even remotely a good idea to pull out. You can't start a fight and then walk away. Unless of course you want to foster an environment that allows someone like Hitler to sieze the day.

Bush has pretty much always been a pariah to Republicans, much like the recently defeated McCain. They are politically middle of the road on many issues, and that upsets the GOP establishment - not such a bad thing in my mind.

And Bush wasn't compared to Truman - he was said to be in good company with Truman based on upon approval ratings.

If we can't believe in ourselves regardless of who is in office, can we really believe in ourselves?

I am eager to see what Obama is able to accomplish. And he falls flat on his face, I will certainly have the class to not just trash him with reckless abandon.

Still Ragin

[Adri]

I believe a large part of our current financial crisis has to do with the "free market" idea that our financial institutions did not need no stinkin' regulations, they could watchdog themselves just fine ('cept that they didn't). Currently, Alan Greenspan is being blamed for carrying out Bush W's free market policy. It was sad to watch Greenspan admit that his understanding of the market was not right.

[Linkmeister]

Bush has pretty much always been a pariah to Republicans

You're kidding, right?

You can't really believe that.

Congressional Republicans have tied themselves to Bush and his agenda since 9/11, happily going along with every "security" measure he proposed (illegal wiretapping, contract overruns with no oversight, elimination of habeas corpus, torture, extraordinary rendition...I could go on for several hours of typing). They loved the man. They thought Karl Rove really could create a permanent Republican majority if they'd just follow where Bush led them, and they did. Repeatedly. To the great detriment of this country.

Have you observed nothing over the past 8 years?

[matapule]

A quick study of politics will teach you that the President's primary power is in his/her ability to set the national agenda. Last time I checked, it was Congress' responsiblity to originate, draft and pass legislation. And then, the President has the ability to sign or veto that legislation.

Here is the problem. When Congress has passed legislation, Bush has declared which parts of those laws he is going to enforce and which he isn't. This is done through "signing statements." There have always been signing statements, but W is the first President to use them as a purported legal excuse not to enforce legislation that he doesn't agree with.

So to place the entirety of the blame on Bush's shoulders is, well short sighted.

That is correct. The blame must also fall on the shoulders of those people who voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004. Bush is a person very much like Sarah Palin in many respects. Not up to the job intellectually and appealing to the darker side of the American psyche.

A great deal of the money that being spent in the Middle East is filtered right back into our economy via contracts with domestic producers (and I know there are some shady deals out there) and our soldiers

Yes, and don't forget to mention Lehman Bros, Haliburton, AIG, as well as pumping up the economy of Middle Eastern potentates. Do I feel wealtheir today than I did 8 years ago? I won't even answer my own question.

Lax lending standards that originated with Bush 1 and Clinton, as well as the blessing during Clinton's presidency to allow financial institutions and insurance institutions to merge/practice both are the reason our economy is in the proverbial crapper.

W could have stopped it. The republicans had control of Congress for 6 years under W. W not only didn't put a stop to it, he expanded it to the point that we have had a complete meltdown.

The President does not have the ability to declare war - Congress, and 90% of the Congress voted for US intervention in Iraq, possesses the right to declare war. Do I think Bush looked at reports and somehow pulled the wool over Congress' eyes on the reports? Not really, because they saw the same reports. They were all equally fooled.

Ah, how soon you forget. War has never been declared in Iraq by an act of Congress. The Presidents staff - with the knowledge of W - influenced the CIA to write reports to justfy the Administration's agenda to invade Iraq. It worked very well. Those reports did fool people, unfortunately. This is not America's war, this is W's war.

And now we're in a sticky situation - but I can't see where it is even remotely a good idea to pull out. You can't start a fight and then walk away. Unless of course you want to foster an environment that allows someone like Hitler to sieze the day.

This is utter nonsense, ragin cajun nonsense. I've had enough of America's chip on the shoulder "bring it on" bravado. Sometimes you have to back down. In poker, you have to "know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em." We are holding a losing poker hand in Iraq. You probably weren't born during the VietNam war. Go back and read some history. We didn't win there. We got our butts kicked and we just walked out and left with our tails between our legs and with people hanging onto the skids of the helicopters. I lost good friends and buddies in VietNam like Herman Huebner. For what? Nothing! Where is the Hitler that took over VietNam? Today, VietNam is a US trading partner, Americans are welcome there, and the people of VietNam are much better off than they were under the corrupt government supported by Johnson and Nixon.

Yes, I support packing up the troops today and getting them out of Iraq and Afghanistan today. We did it before, we can do it again. "Mission Accomplished?" Hell no, nothing accomplished.

Bush has pretty much always been a pariah to Republicans, much like the recently defeated McCain. They are politically middle of the road on many issues, and that upsets the GOP establishment - not such a bad thing in my mind.

This paragraph is so nonsensical, you embarrass yourself. No need to commment on something that even neocon republicans wouldn't agree with you.

And Bush wasn't compared to Truman - he was said to be in good company with Truman based on upon approval ratings.

Only history can judge, not snapshot approval ratings.

If we can't believe in ourselves regardless of who is in office, can we really believe in ourselves?

The President is the symbol of the United States. We have been embarrassed as a nation for the last 8 years.

I am eager to see what Obama is able to accomplish. And he falls flat on his face, I will certainly have the class to not just trash him with reckless abandon.

Fine, but I will hold Obama to his promises. I will hold him accountable for his actions, just like any other President or Presidential candidate.

We, the citizens, are the government. We are respionsible for our future. YES WE CAN!

[matapule]

I will now go back in hiding so you folks be nice to my AF.

You are a Coward! If you want to participate in HT, sign up for a screen name and participate.

[LikaNui]

From CNN.com moments ago:

What was Gov. Sarah Palin's overall effect on the McCain campaign?

Positive... 21%... 38,299

Negative... 70%... 127,144

Neither... 9%... 15,388

Total Votes: 180,831

[Jake's Ohana]

Questions:

Where has Cheney been hiding these passed 8 years? After "W's" administration took office, I think Cheney made a few blunders and went through his multiple cardio/stroke scare, and afterward, we never see or hear from him again. Perhaps all of the propaganda that he was linked to with the defense/security contracts did him in?

During the Clinton administration, Gore was working the streets, building relations on foreign soil, working with the tech industry, and focusing on global issues. Another words, we heard and watched Gore regularly during Clinton's admin.

I for one, don't have much political knowledge, but I just seem interested in knowing why Cheney fizzled out of the picture during W's reign - just my 2 cents.

[matapule]

Questions:

Where has Cheney been hiding these passed 8 years?

Cheney was the invisible President of the United States for 7 1/2 years. He was the puppetmaster pulling W's strings. In the last few months he has cut and run from Bush and the left the puppet in a heap on the stage, all by his lonesome.

[Ron Whitfield]

You're kidding, right?
You can't really believe that.
Congressional Republicans have tied themselves to Bush and his agenda since 9/11, happily going along with every "security" measure he proposed (illegal wiretapping, contract overruns with no oversight, elimination of habeas corpus, torture, extraordinary rendition...I could go on for several hours of typing). They loved the man. They thought Karl Rove really could create a permanent Republican majority if they'd just follow where Bush led them, and they did. Repeatedly. To the great detriment of this country.
Have you observed nothing over the past 8 years?

Thank you, LM!

I was rather optimistic that the Dems were now in office and our financial future is in the hands of people like Barney Frank.
The election is over. You guys take yourself way too seriously. Recognize the comedy and tragedy in both parties

Frank sucks, in many way's..., but if you think he's going to have any sway with this new administration, then have fun with it, on your own dime as the rest of us move on. But, I'd certainly take Frank over any republican any day. There's a new sheriff in town and garbage from the past is out, hopefully Reid and Pelosi as well.

What I want to know from those who like to spew this conservative crap, such as (after yet another deserved ass whipping...), "You guy's take yourselve's too seriously", just what the XXXX does that mean?

[Leo Lakio]

[Okay, y'all. My DH wants to say something...Okay - I admit I liked that post!

[Vanguard]

Some incorrect predictions for the 2008 election (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/11/06/bad_prediction/?bill)

[Leo Lakio]

Some incorrect predictions for the 2008 electionYou forgot my favorite, at the end of this post (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=208936&postcount=109).


(Yes. I am milking it. Tough.)

[Vanguard]

You forgot my favorite, at the end of this post (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=208936&postcount=109).


(Yes. I am milking it. Tough.)

If we're gonna talk HT member predictions, here's the one (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=185694&postcount=76) I'm proud of! :cool:

[matapule]

According to the Onion (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/mccain_gets_hammered_at):

PHOENIX—After conceding defeat in the 2008 presidential election, former Republican candidate John McCain reportedly got completely hammered Tuesday night at the Veterans of Foreign Wars bar in Phoenix. "I saw this old guy just kind of slumped over his drink for a couple hours before I realized who it was," bartender Rob Dubbin said of the former Navy officer, who sources confirmed arrived at the VFW community tavern around 9 p.m. wearing his lieutenant commander's jacket and cap. "He must have had about eight or nine boilermakers in all. I heard him muttering something about 'Pennsylvania,' I think, but other than that he was pretty quiet." Sources said McCain continued to drink alone until well after 3 a.m., at which point fellow patrons had to carry the sleeping senator to a couch in the back office.

[tutusue]

[...]Sources said McCain continued to drink alone until well after 3 a.m.,[...]
Wow. What an incredible sad scenario.

[matapule]

I wonder if he dropped a couple of "C" bombs in his mutterings?

[Ron Whitfield]

Somebody ought to make a new drink called the C Bomb.
What's the reverse of okole maluna?

[Stephen]

I hope everyone knows that the Onion is a Joke. In case you're not sure, check out this video they've posted on some of the Obama supporters:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive

[tutusue]

I wonder if he dropped a couple of "C" bombs in his mutterings?
Could be why he was alone...

[Stephen]

Matapule,
Alright, my original post was simply to throw some other insight into Bush's Presidency and the way history will judge him. And of course I had a few drinks and read Matapule's reply and spouted off in defense - simply because I'm a fan of a good debate and with a little booze I'll argue any point regardless of my belief it.

However, I again will restate that I find it short sighted to simply blame Bush (and his supporters.) There were so many other factors - if you prefer to blame Bush for them, fine. I'll just read the posts with rosy glasses.

In regards to the declaration of war, specifically, you are correct. However 90% of Congress voted to authorize Military Engagement. In my opinion, we're arguing semantics here.

Trust me, I have had my butt kicked, and know the value of walking away. I wish we would never have gone to Afghan/Iraq. I just dont' think that it's a good idea to go in, start a fight in such a hot bed for anti-American sentiment and then not help clean up the mess. I don't have a solution, but I don't think just pulling out is a wise one. BTW, that was a reference to WWI, not Vietnam. And you are correct, I was born after Vietnam. However, I have read plenty on Vietnam - my Dad took shrapnel to his grave from his service in Vietnam. And I also know that Vietnam survived just fine. But I also don't think the we can compare Iraq to Vietnam. I find it interesting that you mention Johnson/Nixon, but leave out JFK. . . .

One point you made earlier that I must have overlooked, has probably been one of the most intelligent posts I've seen recently and wanted to commend you on it:

"No, it is up to us to solve the ills of the world. Less government is better government. Presidents don't make things better, we make things better. We, the nation, need to change our attitude now. Stop looking at the Presidency as your mother who is going to take care of you. We need to take care of ourselves. We can do it! YES WE CAN!"

I'm outta goodies for now.

Ragin Cajun

[Walkoff Balk]

According to the Onion (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/mccain_gets_hammered_at):

Last Call!
Buy Me Drinku!

[cyleet99]

Matapule...my DH's post was meant in all silliness. He very much enjoyed adding to the mix, and may yet get his own screen name. There was no disrespect meant to any HTers, yourself in particular. Calling names was not necessary.

LL...I liked his post, too!

I bow out at this point. Enjoy the ride, y'all!

Cindy

[Vanguard]

County Where Palin Hailed "Real America" Voted Overwhelmingly For Obama (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/11/palins_real_america_voted_big.php)

[tutusue]

A little levity (http://www.minimovie.com/film-128460-McCain-Obama%20Dance-Off) but where's Biden? :D

[Peshkwe]

Here's another 'negative ad' related to the "otherness" of Obama 'cause he was born and raised in ....

*gasp*

Hawai-ee-ee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gCJolGLKbQ)

[matapule]

Here's another 'negative ad' related to the "otherness" of Obama 'cause he was born and raised in ....

*gasp*

Hawai-ee-ee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gCJolGLKbQ)

I don't know....maybe it's just me.......but it looks like paradise to me.

[matapule]

but where's Biden? :D

White men can't dance? http://www.clipartof.com/images/thumbnail/1959.gif

[Adri]

Well, truth be told, Obama isn't so great at dancing himself. *g* I saw his clip with Ellen.

[Peshkwe]

He does have a sense of humor tho:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=6208813

[escondido100]

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/countycartpurple512.png here is an unusual map of the presidential election for more maps and an explanation go here:http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/

[tutusue]

White men can't dance? http://www.clipartof.com/images/thumbnail/1959.gif
I thought McCain did one heckuva good job!
Well, truth be told, Obama isn't so great at dancing himself. *g* I saw his clip with Ellen.
I don't think dancing's been high on Obama's priority list. Still, he's got rhythm and he's got the beat. With more experience I think he could bust a mean move! Don't think he'll find much time for it, tho'.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Sorry if I missed it and someone already posted about this, but... when I watched Steven Colbert's reflection on what Obama's victory means for the children of Hawaiʻi (http://www.indecision2008.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=209526), I had to choke back a tear.

Or something.

[Frankie's Market]

More proof (as if much was needed anyway) that "Joe the Plumber" was a total phony:

Joe hires a PR firm to get himself a recording deal, which proves my earlier point that Joe was more interested in self-publicity rather than seriously trying to make any political statement.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/15072.html

And finally, Joe reveals himself to be a hypocrite when it is revealed that he was twice on welfare.

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/joe-plumber-welfare-queen-too

Hey Joe! Where do you think your family's welfare money came from? That's right. The taxes paid by other working people at the time. And it is no different with the taxes you are paying for now, as an unlicensed plumber. At least, with whatever taxes that you did pay. You still owe Uncle Sam some $1200, right? :rolleyes:

[Composite 2992]

I don't know....maybe it's just me.......but it looks like paradise to me.

I don't understand why my wife didn't get too excited when I told her we are going to take our vacation in Hawaii.

Maybe because we live there? :-)

[matapule]

I thought McCain did one heckuva good job!

That's because he is Panamanian, not a white guy!

[Leo Lakio]

In thinking about the possibility that Gov. Palin will make a run for the Presidency in 2012, has anyone else noted that 2012 is the year the ancient Mayan calendar predicts a great upheaval in the civilizations of humanity?

[Ron Whitfield]

I know I'd be rioting in Waipahu if that happens...

[Walkoff Balk]

I know I'd be rioting in Waipahu if that happens...
They're Identical Cousins!

[Frankie's Market]

In thinking about the possibility that Gov. Palin will make a run for the Presidency in 2012, has anyone else noted that 2012 is the year the ancient Mayan calendar predicts a great upheaval in the civilizations of humanity?

No, that's interesting.

I would take it with a grain of salt, tho. If the Mayan calendar was prophetic, why didn't it tell their people about the demise of their own civilization? :rolleyes:

[Leo Lakio]

If the Mayan calendar was prophetic, why didn't it tell their people about the demise of their own civilization? :rolleyes:Who says it didn't?

Just because a civilization is aware of its impending end doesn't mean they can stop it from happening.

;)

[craigwatanabe]

Who says it didn't?

Just because a civilization is aware of its impending end doesn't mean they can stop it from happening.

;)


That's right! There are intelligent people all around us that still feel compelled to smoke themselves to death.:D

[Composite 2992]

In thinking about the possibility that Gov. Palin will make a run for the Presidency in 2012, has anyone else noted that 2012 is the year the ancient Mayan calendar predicts a great upheaval in the civilizations of humanity?

I almost had a "great upheaval" laughing at Tina Fey's Palin impressions!

:D

[Walkoff Balk]

No, that's interesting.

I would take it with a grain of salt, tho. If the Mayan calendar was prophetic, why didn't it tell their people about the demise of their own civilization? :rolleyes:

I don't know why psychics don't just live the high life making their money on sports bets or the stock market.

[oceanpacific]

Palin in 2012 has the same chance as Dan Quayle had in 1996 .............. NONE! Get serious!

[Frankie's Market]

Palin in 2012 has the same chance as Dan Quayle had in 1996 .............. NONE! Get serious!

My first inclination would be to agree. But let's suppose,.....

Barack Obama does a bang-up job in his first term as president. The economy is improved. His approval ratings are high.

Under such circumstances, many Republicans with viable aspirations for the White House might choose to take a pass on 2012 and wait for '16. A strong Obama re-election campaign opens the possibility that the GOP might nominate a sacrificial lamb of sorts. If that is the case, Sarah Palin might very emerge as the victor in a lucklustre field of candidates. But for what? Only to get tromped on by a popular incumbent in the general election, much like McGovern in '72 and Mondale in '84.

OTOH, if the Obama presidency is a shaky one, then the cream of the GOP cream will no doubt step forward in '12 and will likely crowd out someone like Palin.

[Ron Whitfield]

Newt will be gunning for the White House asap, and will probably be the leader of that rat pack.

[Vanguard]

Bush uses hand sanitizer after shaking hands with Obama (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/09/bush-obama-meeting-hard-feelings-hand-sanitier/)

Wow. Does this mean Bush bathes in Purell after doing this (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=aBJ&q=john%20mccain%20hug%20bush&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) and this (http://images.google.com/images?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=bush+saudi&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title)?

Because he doesn't exactly exude Howie Mandel-esque (http://www.zimbio.com/Howie+Mandel/articles/5/Howie+Mandel+The+Face+of+OCD) tendencies in light of the two previous links!

[Stephen]

I find it alarming, and comical, that not one of my fellow posters here was able to see or admit to the bogus"ness" of the Onion post on McCain on election night, let alone see the absolutely hilarious comedy in the video link I posted in regards to a very true sect of Obama supporters. Does anyone here have an ability to actually view the world and find humor in it? Or are you (normally I would say we, but I'm flying solo right now) so blinded by some false belief that you can't find humor in what life throws at us? It really is pretty funny. Whether you walk the right or left aisle, if you can't laugh simultaneously at both, you're really just a lemming. And based on the dialogues and diatribes I've witnessed here, you're not lemmings. However, the lack of acknowledgement really makes me wonder.
RC

[Composite 2992]

Does anyone here have an ability to actually view the world and find humor in it? Or are you (normally I would say we, but I'm flying solo right now) so blinded by some false belief that you can't find humor in what life throws at us? It really is pretty funny. Whether you walk the right or left aisle, if you can't laugh simultaneously at both, you're really just a lemming. And based on the dialogues and diatribes I've witnessed here, you're not lemmings. However, the lack of acknowledgement really makes me wonder.
RC

Could be that no one bothered to look at the clip. Or maybe it just wasn't funny.

Personally, I've seen enough anti-Obama material for a while. The Republicans threw everything they could scrape up out of the cesspool in the last few months. It's gotten old.

[Adri]

I find it alarming, and comical, that not one of my fellow posters here was able to see or admit to the bogus"ness" of the Onion post on McCain on election night, let alone see the absolutely hilarious comedy in the video link I posted in regards to a very true sect of Obama supporters. Does anyone here have an ability to actually view the world and find humor in it? Or are you (normally I would say we, but I'm flying solo right now) so blinded by some false belief that you can't find humor in what life throws at us? It really is pretty funny. Whether you walk the right or left aisle, if you can't laugh simultaneously at both, you're really just a lemming. And based on the dialogues and diatribes I've witnessed here, you're not lemmings. However, the lack of acknowledgement really makes me wonder.
RC

I find it comical that you think you know that every one of the over 4000 registered users of this site did not see something. No need for you to be alarmed, I just assumed that no one bothered to respond to your post not that no one can actually view the world and/or find humor in it. A lack of response does not necessarily mean that everyone else is a lemming.

[matapule]

I find it alarming, and comical, that not one of my fellow posters here was able to see or admit to the bogus"ness" of the Onion post on McCain on election night,

I find it alarming and comical that you make such rash presumptions and conclusions.

[Leo Lakio]

I find it alarming, and comical, that not one of my fellow posters here was able to ...I find it alarming and comical that you make such rash presumptions and conclusions.I found his post comical, but not alarming, considering the source (admittedly always posting when soused doesn't give much credibility to the posts).

[timkona]

Pardon me Leo, but by your own admission, some of my most eloquent diatribes have been under the influence of adult beverages.

Drink on, in the spirit of Hemingway.

[tutusue]

Pardon me Leo, but by your own admission, some of my most eloquent diatribes have been under the influence of adult beverages.
Some people are just more eloquent than others while under the influence! ;) Oh wait...I'm not Leo!
Drink on, in the spirit of Hemingway.
Don't mind if I do. Okole maluna...

[LikaNui]

I saw a replay of the Tonight Show with Jay Leno, taped just a few days after the election, and his guest was John McCain.
Jay asked McCain how he was handling the election results.
"I'm sleeping like a baby," said McCain. "Two hours asleep, wake up crying, two hours asleep, wake up crying..." :p

[Random]

In thinking about the possibility that Gov. Palin will make a run for the Presidency in 2012, has anyone else noted that 2012 is the year the ancient Mayan calendar predicts a great upheaval in the civilizations of humanity?
Nope. I happened to notice that Barack's four-year term ends on 2012. :p