Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

[mel]

I have been reading with interest the Tivo vs. Oceanic Cable's DVR. The Tivo and other hard drive based devices like it offer consumers with a lot of flexibility to schedule, time shift and share programs with others. Sounds fine and dandy.

There looms a barrier to total digital flexibility come July 2005. A new technology known as the Digital Broadcast Flag will be required on all consumer TVs for sale after July 2005 and digital recorders too. The reason this technology is being mandated by the government is because the movie and TV studios want to prevent consumers from allowing "me to send shows to friends over the Internet, get shows from them, and download all sorts of content from third-parties. So far, the sky remains the limit," says PZ on the Tivo thread.

Well not for too long.

The broadcast flag is being put into place to prevent this kind of thing for happening in the HDTV format. Want to continue trading and stuff with your present Tivo? You may have to jury rig the thing if you buy a newer digital TV set that will prevent the Tivo from working as presently constituted.

I don't know about other current digital devices.

The broadcast flag will also prevent new DVD recorders from reproducing some (if not all) high def digital content. And whatever content you CAN record will not work on the DVD players you have today.

Will the DVD discs we all own today work on new DVD players built for HDTV? I hope so. I cannot fathom to think about buying the same movies all over again for a 3rd time, nor re-buying several hundred dollars worth of Babylon 5 episodes all over again because my present set will cease to work in some upcoming future device.

Some people are already urging consumers to stock up on some of the digital equipment that are currently offered now, because so far none have the digital broadcast flag technology.

The EFF has already started a campaign to help consumers fight the broadcast flag by purchasing certain types of equipment (including PC video capture cards) and setting them up so that users can continue to time shift and share programs as they do today.

Bottom line is that the broadcast flag much like upcoming copy protected compact discs are a draconian way to punish consumers for what is perfectly legal to do today.

Any thoughts????

[Konaguy]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

My thoughts on these copy protection measures potentially being implemented is if people stopped illegally sharing copyrighted material on peer to peer networks for example these draconian measures would probably not be implemented to the degree they're being implemented. Thus I'm not angry at the RIAA/MPAA/ etc for what they are doing. I'm angry at that bozo sharing a gazillion copyrighted files on Kazaa for the mess we are in.

[mel]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

And unfortunately the innocent get penalized along with the guilty.

[cezanne]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

Pardon my ignorance but what is "time-shifting"? Also, I'm in the market for a stand alone dvr/dvd-burner to archive copies of show's recorded on my Oceanic supplied DVR. My wife likes to record some cooking shows and I like to record some sports stuff. Should this ruling affect my decision to get a dvd burner used in this manner?

[pzarquon]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

Time shifting is basically what any television recorder does, from a Betamax to a VHS to a DVD recorder to a TiVo. Basically the courts ruled that devices that allow a consumer to record a broadcast to review it later is perfectly legal.

When you get into redistributing that content, or editing it, or doing other sorts of techy things to it, that's when you run into trouble. Hence, the "broadcast flag" and the battle over integrating HDTV and hard drives, and services like TiVo-To-Go.

From my reading, this "broadcast flag" doesn't care if you record a HDTV broadcast to watch later. They just don't want you sending it anywhere else. Of course, this will probably still limit whether you can copy it to removable (i.e. portable) media like a DVD.

But, since there's no standard right now, I think any DVD recorder should be able to nab the recorded content off your DVR and burn it to a DVD disk - though this process will probably be via analog or S-Video rather than direct digital (i.e. hard drive straight to DVD recorder as in an all PC-based transaction). Just like how I can record stuff I have on my TiVo to VHS the same way my VHS can record off the broadcast signal, but it'd be breaking the rules to grab the actual digital file from the TiVo hard drive and mess with it some other way.

It bears noting that there is already an industry-created (not government mandated) copy protection "standard" for basic home entertainment devices called Macrovision. This is why you can't hook most DVD players to VCRs and just tape your DVDs (or copy one tape to another between VCRs). Of course, there are ways around it... just as people will find a way around the broadcast flag. I wager it'll actually be easier, since the government is getting in the act.

Read the FAQs at the bottom of the article Mel linked. The broadcast flag won't and can't make current devices useless (so shop early, and definitely snap up stuff on clearance if the flag actually becomes law!), but still, if implemented, it'll lead to headaches and incompatibilities further down the road.

[Konaguy]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

The broadcast flag won't and can't make current devices useless (so shop early, and definitely snap up stuff on clearance if the flag actually becomes law!), but still, if implemented, it'll lead to headaches and incompatibilities further down the road.

This part makes no sense will the Broadcast flag make current devices
obsolete or not ?

[pzarquon]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

This part makes no sense will the Broadcast flag make current devices obsolete or not?

Like I suggested, read the FAQ, which does a better job of going through the various points better than I have here. I'll try again, though. The broadcast flag, when implemented, won't immediately make your hardware obsolete. I believe it's written into the spec that it be "backwards compatible." So, that 13" color TV with only one coaxial input you bought in 1998 will still work (with analog signals or the undoubtedly best-selling HD-to-NTSC converters).

However, just like how when Betamax went the way of the dodo and prerecorded movies and blank tapes in the format disappeared through simple market forces, you're going to see that as hardware dies or needs to be replaced, you won't be able to avoid buying a device that obeys the broadcast flag. Specifically, if you want to enjoy high definitionvideo, which allegedly all broadcasters will be sending out someday, the next HD-capable TV, VCR, DVD recorder or TV you buy afterthe flag becomes law will include the copy/transfer restrictions.

[mel]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

Specifically, if you want to enjoy high definitionvideo, which allegedly all broadcasters will be sending out someday, the next HD-capable TV, VCR, DVD recorder or TV you buy afterthe flag becomes law will include the copy/transfer restrictions.

And that is the rub. When you have to inevitably replace the equipment you now have say 5 to 10 years down the road, there is no guarantee that it will be compatible to the software (DVDs) you bought today. Given that I was told DVD as well as CD technology is supposed to last forever. Once I bought into DVD as well as CD, I thought I could rest assured that I would not ever have to buy the same content all over again because of a incompatible format change.

I mean I bought early on into Beta, amassed quite a large Beta movie collection only to see that format die. I half heartedly went to VHS, but luckily did not amass that big of a movie collection except for all the home taped episodes of Babylon 5 and some other TV shows that I collected in the 1990s. Now I have most of the movies that I used to have on Beta and TV shows I used to have on VHS on DVD. I want the DVD collection I own to be fully compatible with all future devices I buy for playback. I am tired of having to rebuy the same stuff over and over.

Ditto with the transistion from records to CDs.

[helen]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

It bears noting that there is already an industry-created (not government mandated) copy protection "standard" for basic home entertainment devices called Macrovision. This is why you can't hook most DVD players to VCRs and just tape your DVDs (or copy one tape to another between VCRs). Of course, there are ways around it... just as people will find a way around the broadcast flag. I wager it'll actually be easier, since the government is getting in the act.

I find it diffcult to understand, why would anyone would copy their DVD's to tape.

[pzarquon]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

Make a copy of a movie of a friend? I'm not sure. I doubt it'd be "for backup," since a magnetic medium like videotape would degrade much faster than a DVD disc.

Some might ask why someone would want to download a low-quality MP3 off the web instead of buying the CD, but tens of millions of folks have proven they're willing to settle for that, too.

Macrovision isn't specifically to stop DVD to VHS transfers, actually. Macrovision just does something specific to warp/mangle the NTSC video signal coming out of the player, so that it would look okay if going straight to a TV, but would cause distortion if another device was in the mix. Thus, even if you wanted to just pass your DVD signal through a VCR to get to a TV, even with no interest in taping it, you'd still get a messed up picture.

[Konaguy]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

Like I suggested, read the FAQ, which does a better job of going through the various points better than I have here.

I tried looking for that FAQ through that link with no sucess.

[pzarquon]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

I tried looking for that FAQ through that link with no sucess.

Ah. I only realize now that Mel's post had two links in it. The FAQ is after the article at the Slate website. Even without it, though, I hope I managed to explain things better here.

[Konaguy]

Re: Digital Broadcast Flag: Barrier for Consumers?

Ah. I only realize now that Mel's post had two links in it. The FAQ is after the article at the Slate website. Even without it, though, I hope I managed to explain things better here.

Oh well it is not huge deal. I have sneaking suspicion my DVD collection
will be still useable even after this broadcast flag is implemented. It is
not like I'm taping something. The DVD have pre recorded movies on them
and I figure they would be unaffected by this.