Christianity - Heaven & Hell

[Glen Miyashiro]

Glen we're at odds here but we can still respect each other's opinions and that's important here even though you'll be damned to hell for your remarks :eek: But then again I'll probably be your neighbor down there for making remarks like that!
That's cool. I'm glad we can have a discussion and not start name-calling. See you in hell -- if there even is such a place. :p

[kimo55]

That's cool. I'm glad we can have a discussion and not start name-calling. See you in hell -- if there even is such a place. :p

God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be
tortured for eternity in hell. That’s not free will. It’s like a man
telling his girlfriend, do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me, I
will track you down and blow your brains out. When a man says this we call
him a psychopath. When god says the same we call him “loving” and build
churches in his honor.
- William C. Easttom II

[Glen Miyashiro]

God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in hell. That’s not free will. It’s like a man telling his girlfriend, do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out. When a man says this we call him a psychopath. When god says the same we call him “loving” and build churches in his honor.
- William C. Easttom II
I guess it depends on exactly what you think hell is. I have heard some Christians say that hell is simply the absence of God. So for Easttom's example, it might be more like a man telling his girlfriend, if you leave me, you won't have me... and that's the worst punishment you could ever suffer. When a man says this, we say that he has a really high opinion of himself. :)

[craigwatanabe]

That's cool. I'm glad we can have a discussion and not start name-calling. See you in hell -- if there even is such a place. :p


you know as a Christian, I believe there is a place, but for the sake of humanity and I hate fire...I hope you're right too. :(

[craigwatanabe]

I guess it depends on exactly what you think hell is. I have heard some Christians say that hell is simply the absence of God. So for Easttom's example, it might be more like a man telling his girlfriend, if you leave me, you won't have me... and that's the worst punishment you could ever suffer. When a man says this, we say that he has a really high opinion of himself. :)


Hell is your worst place right? So what is hell to a police officer? A pimp's world. What's hell to a pimp? A world of do gooders. What's heaven to an officer? A world of do gooders. What's heaven to a pimp? A world full of prostitutes.

So Hell to me is what you make of it. So if you think you're in Heaven and you see your mother in law, oh well you made some bad decisions in life. But to your mother in law, she's in heaven! She gets to nag you for eternity!

What's Heaven for me? A message board where every one agrees with me (and Mel). Gee I must have died and gone to Hell. :eek: Hey Glen, we made it!

[kimo55]

I guess it depends on exactly what you think hell is.


some say hell or for that matter, heaven, is what you think it to be. What you envision, what you create in your mind, heart, emotions. what you were taught to believe it is, that's what it is. Its subjective. It is not objective and will never be a definitive thing.

After all, that's one of the major problems in defining the so called afterlife.
That's why this aspect of life on earth here (religion) that was supposedly created to help make 'man' more spiritual and loving seems to have been the cause of so much divisiveness, wars, strife...

We are using finite terms and concepts to define something that is infinite and abstract. We are using a finite brain to attempt to comprehend 'some-"thing" infinite. How can the human brain/mind conceive of, visualise, imagine, picture; something that there are no words for? words were created to help us define and understand the physical world. and there's nothing that can help us understand something outside of our reality.
so each and every person in this mortal coil has their own interpretation, translation, conception of god, heaven, hell... and many of like minds band together. and others of slighty differing viewpoints separate from them, and this scenario is replicated ad infinitum. and we have all these groups then posing upon their hilltops yelling their dogma and commanding their dictum: Worship and believe our way, worship and bow down to our god. Cuz if ya don't we and our god will come down and smite you and YOUR god.

[Miulang]

I think my hell would be when I get cremated and my ashes are scattered over the Pacific Ocean, that there's a huge wind that comes up and blows the bits and pieces of me back onto the boat or airplane, not into the ocean so I can become fish fodder! :eek:

Miulang

[kimo55]

I think my hell would be when I get cremated and my ashes are scattered over the Pacific Ocean, that there's a huge wind that comes up and blows the bits and pieces of me back onto the boat or airplane, not into the ocean so I can become fish fodder! :eek:

Miulang


my heaven would be my ashes tossed over the ocean, a wind carries them over to walmart and falls on that smiley face icon rolling back prices who then chokes on them.

[Miulang]

my heaven would be my ashes tossed over the ocean, a wind carries them over to walmart and falls on that smiley face icon rolling back prices who then chokes on them.

Good one, Kimo! ROFLMAO!

[craigwatanabe]

my heaven would be my ashes tossed over the ocean, a wind carries them over to walmart and falls on that smiley face icon rolling back prices who then chokes on them.

And your hell would be when nobody cares when that smiley face takes some discounted Nyquil from it's racks and keeps on smiling. :eek: :) ;)

So far Jesus is living his hell since not a whole lot of people seem to care about his crucification. But then good always prevails over evil in the end. :)

[Miulang]

So far Jesus is living his hell since not a whole lot of people seem to care about his crucification. But then good always prevails over evil in the end. :)

I guess people like Kimo and me are the reason that Jesus is living his hell? Actually, I am a pantheist...I like some of the Christian stuff (both Catholic and Protestant--in fact I can still say the "Hail Marys" as fast as any kid in catechism!), some Buddhist stuff, some Moslem stuff, some Hebrew stuff, some Unitarian stuff even. In fact, I find religion fascinating. Ever considered the fact that most of the great religions of the world seem to have been started around the same time (insert "Twilight Zone" music here)? So maybe it was the aliens who landed and went on pilgrimages to teach the heathens about things which should be common sense, like "don't kill anybody". Every religion has tenets that are very similar to each other. Why is that?

My Dad was raised as a Buddhist (his mom wanted him to be a Buddhist minister, according to family legend) but was sent to a Methodist boarding school (MidPac). He used to take my brother and me to Buddhist church every Sunday except on Easter Sunday, when we'd be singing "Onward Christian Soldiers" at the Easter Sunrise services! That's one of the beautiful things about living in Hawaii.

Miulang

[kimo55]

I guess people like Kimo and me are the reason that Jesus is living his hell? Actually, I am a pantheist...


To YOU I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition

[Miulang]

To YOU I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition

Hey Kimo. We stay be on da same side, bruddah. A pantheist believes in many religions and that there's no one true religion. An atheist believes there is no ultimate being or religion, for that matter (look what happened to Madelyn Murray O'Hair, da wahine who help create da law dat wen go ban prayers in public schools? She wen go make die dead for her beliefs anden!). We gotta believe, just in case, yeah? :D

Miulang

[kimo55]

that was the short answer.
to really define, i suppose I'd be fairly guilty of being a teleological, existential agnostic pantheistic essene theosphist with growing gnostic leanings that believes religion is essentially one of those complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

[Miulang]

that was the short answer.
to really define, i suppose I'd be fairly guilty of being a teleological, existential agnostic pantheistic essene with growing gnostic leanings that believes religion is essentially one of those complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

You got it bruddah! And it ain't a Toyota!

Miulang ;)

[kimo55]

You got it bruddah! And it ain't a Toyota!

Miulang ;)


I dunno, sometimes I worship my Toy Yoda...
he appears sooo wise!


(or should I say;
Wise, he appears!)

[Miulang]

I dunno, sometimes I worship my Toy Yoda...
he appears sooo wise!


(or should I say;
Wise, he appears!)

Wouldn't that be: Appears he, wise?

Miulang

[kimo55]

Wouldn't that be: Appears he, wise?

Miulang


no. it's
Ape pears. He Whys?

[Miulang]

no. it's
Ape pears. He Whys?
Nah, I believe it's: "Sire, hew sap pea!"

Miulang

[kimo55]

Nah, I believe it's: "Sire, hew sap pea!"

Miulang


aaaah ya found one o those rearrange da woids web sites!

smaht kine an' all akamai li' dat are you!

[kimo55]

hell is when yer stuck in one dogmatic cult. heaven is when you are free to study all the comparative religions and philosophies of the world and of the ages.

and ya better have leanings toward some kinda reincarnation concept cuz it'll take more than one life...

[kimo55]

no. it's
Ape pears. He Whys?


ok. new thread;
word play
semantical ambulations

[Miulang]

aaaah ya found one o those rearrange da woids web sites!

smaht kine an' all akamai li' dat are you!

Yeah, when I'm not terrorizing forums, I'm playing those stupid games! Question: what's the best way to rouse a rabble?

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Oh well, as my 15-year old tells me.

Okay one and my only attempt to convince you (yeah right but I gotta try right?)

Let's say there is a Heaven and Hell and you believe in it and follow your god's mighty wisdom. Poof rapture comes along and you are rewarded your ticket to paradise.

Let's say there isn't a Heaven and Hell and you've just wasted your entire life believing in something that doesn't exist. Poof you die and become fertilizer for the rest of the food chain. So far no big deal it's either great or whatever but NO Problem right? You're dead, you're fertilizer you have no feelings or fear anymore you're nothing.

Those odds are something I could handle despite the outcome.

Now let's say there is a Heaven and Hell and you DON'T believe in it. Poof, Boy it's hot here wonder what part of the US I'm in now? Holy Crap it's hot down South!

Okay now let's figure on no Heaven and no Hell. Poof you die and turn to fertilizer and feed the rest of the food chain.

So in both scenerios (believe in it or not) if there isn't a Heaven or Hell then the outcomes are the same so they kinda cancel each other out and that option is irrelevent, you're dead, you're nothing, case closed, next!

That leaves the two other options available. Heaven or Hell.

I'd rather believe and take the chance that I'll go on to a better life rather than not believe and go to my mother in law's dungeon in Hell.

Nuff said, believe, don't believe, life's a gamble. I believe so it'll be either paradise or fertilizer. For those who choose otherwise, it's a barbecue or fertilizer. I'll take the sure bet and the better outcome. :)

[kimo55]

Question: what's the best way to rouse a rabble?

Miulang

I dunno.
whut.
ya thwow the kwazy wabbit at da webble wowzuz?!

[kimo55]

Nuff said, believe, don't believe, life's a


Haaay!

no fair!

You said;
"Nuff said"
and then kept on sayin'!

[kimo55]

Poof rapture comes along and you are rewarded your ticket to paradise.




waiiddaminute!

What da hell's this "poof rapture" thingy?!
some kinda queer eye for the straight guy religious makeover promise thing?!
who you been listening to!?

[craigwatanabe]

Damn! we must be in real time with our replies to each other. Talk about Quantum Science!

[craigwatanabe]

Sorry the Poof theory is limited to Costco members only. You must be a Sam's club member. :D

[kimo55]

Damn! we must be in real time with our replies to each other. Talk about Quantum Science!


i don't believe in real time.
real science and quantum time, i do believe in however.
'least that's what they tell me at church.

[craigwatanabe]

Shesh we must be wearing out this thread. We should go over to the Ideal Liberal Govenment thread...nothing updated since this morning!

[kimo55]

Sorry the Poof theory is limited to Costco members only. You must be a Sam's club member. :D


my theory is Sam's a poof. And if you get near his club, he's spank ya with it. slowly. and gently.
I won't EVEN go near "member"

[Miulang]

When I push up crocuses, I certainly am not going to care about heaven or hell. About the only ones who will care about my soul might be some well-meaning LDS'ers, who will perform a Baptism for the Dead to ensure that my soul rests in peace eternally, even though they may not even know me.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Oh Damn I had to bring up that Wal-Mart issue again. Boy this volley is better than watching the last second bidding on Ebay stuff!

[kimo55]

Yeah, when I'm not terrorizing forums, I'm playing those stupid games! Question: what's the best way to rouse a rabble?

Miulang


ahhh yes. Anagram.

My gram's name is ann.

no that's not it.
But anagram is whatcher doing i think.

easy kine; where it rearranges to say anythings else;

mo bettah kine
rearranges thesauruslike:

* The earthquakes
That queer shake

* Debit card
Bad credit

* Slot machines
Cash lost in 'em

* School master
The classroom

* Eleven plus two
Twelve plus one

* Dormitory
Dirty room

* Punishment
Nine Thumps5

* Desperation
A rope ends it

* The Morse code
Here come dots

* Snooze alarms
Alas! No more Zs

* A decimal point
I'm a dot in place

* Astronomer
Moon starer


how bout ambigram;
what kine dat!?
the ambiguously opposite arranger:
the Nuclear Regulatory Commission = your rules clone atomic nightmares.



how about antigram:
An anagram which is antonymous of the original phrase;
violence = nice love.

[kimo55]

Oh Damn I had to bring up that Wal-Mart issue again. Boy this volley is better than watching the last second bidding on Ebay stuff!


this volley is a ball!

[Miulang]

ahhh yes. Anagram.

My gram's name is ann.

no that's not it.
But anagram is whatcher doing i think.

easy kine; where it rearranges to say anythings else;

mo bettah kine
rearranges thesauruslike:

* The earthquakes
That queer shake

* Debit card
Bad credit

* Slot machines
Cash lost in 'em

* School master
The classroom

* Eleven plus two
Twelve plus one3

* Dormitory
Dirty room

* Punishment
Nine Thumps5

* Desperation
A rope ends it

* The Morse code
Here come dots

* Snooze alarms
Alas! No more Zs

* A decimal point
I'm a dot in place

* Astronomer
Moon starer


how bout ambigram;
what kine dat!?
the ambiguously opposite arranger:
the Nuclear Regulatory Commission = your rules clone atomic nightmares.



how about antigram:
An anagram which is antonymous of the original phrase;
violence = nice love.

And don 't forget about the barellinas and flutterbys!

Miulang

[helen]

While reading the book I, Robot there was a reference to one of the characters encountering St. Peter who happens to be at the enterance to Heaven. And I am thinking, yeah there has been lots of references of St. Peter at the enterance to the pearly gates. So is this the same St. Peter who was one the apostiles of Jesus right?

If so, then keep in mind St. Peter was alive around 2000 years or so ago, then he died and now he has the job of seeing people before they enter Heaven. Now call it favortism or cynorism since St. Peter knew the Son of God but the questions I have is who was the person that used to have the job of being at the enterance to the pearly gates before St. Peter and whatever happen to that person?

[kimo55]

the questions I have is who was the person that used to have the job of being at the enterance to the pearly gates before St. Peter and whatever happen to that person?



aaaah the mysteries of heaven and of the lord, my child, will be fully exposed to you when you reach the penultimate destination. god's mysteries will be revealed to you when you are revealed to god.


'sides;
why you like know erryting now? Donchu want a lil suspense in your life?!

[kimo55]

we seem to all have some pretty serious delusions about death and dying around here. ..



Mel, your religious intolerance and spiritual arrogance is showing.

An individual's concepts and perceptions of death and dying are their own. ...a very personal thing and something which oftimes serves as a major thing in their life which gives them succor or peace of mind; their concept of what comes after and its passage. To claim these beliefs, feelings and ideas they openly and trustfully voice in this online ohana; to label them as "delusional" is ethnocentric, myopic, oppressively judgemental and religiously fascistic; as a "moderator", we give you more credit than that.

[aloha_girlz]

Lani is home, I think is like Hawaii and Kehena is the opposite of that.

Christ showed the forgiveness that we all must take up.

[kimo55]

Lani is home, I think is like Hawaii and Kehena is the opposite of that.

Christ showed the forgiveness that we all must take up.


Huuuungh!?

[Albert]

This is so absurd.

The Christian concepts of "heaven" and "hell" are absolutely ridiculous.

You get ONE chance to live a life?! If you succeed by "Christian" notions, you go on up to "Heaven", nod to Saint Peter as he lets you past the Gates, and then what??? You play a harp for eternity, dance on the golden streets? Won't you get bored?

I'd miss most of my friends if I went there.

On the other hand, you are going to tortured with fire and brimstone for all eternity???

Totally absurd.

I think the Buddhists have a much better idea of what is going on here.

[mel]

>Originally Posted by mel



>we seem to all have some pretty serious delusions about death and dying around here



Mel, your religious intolerance and spiritual arrogance is showing.

An individual's concepts and perceptions of death and dying are their own. ...a very personal thing and something which oftimes serves as a major thing in their life which gives them succor or peace of mind; their concept of what comes after and its passage. To claim these beliefs, feelings and ideas they openly and trustfully voice in this online ohana; to label them as "delusional" is ethnocentric, myopic, oppressively judgemental and religiously fascistic; as a "moderator", we give you more credit than that.

Look, I don't remember making that statement in this topic. It seems a lot of messages from the closed old WalMart topic got yanked and tacked in over here... not by me. I did not wish to participate in this topic matter. I deleted my posts in this topic that originally appeared in the WalMart topic. This topic is in somewhat of a mess now. This will be my only post in this topic. I had not originally partiicpated in this "heaven and hell" topic and choose not to be a part of this topic.

I think once an old topic is closed, it should just stay that way with all of its original messages intact, whether on topic or off....

Perhaps the board is beginning to fill up and maybe all the messages need to be purged and we all start fresh and new all over again.

That's it. I am off topic here but then I never wanted to be in this topic. I just had to spill my 2 cents here on this matter. :(

[admin]

I've posted an explanation (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=2476&highlight=walmart) at the Front Desk. This particular thread split was definitely a mistake. Mea culpa. Perhaps we'll try a more focused analysis of existential issues at a later time.