Undecided on who to vote for Prez?

[Miulang]

Those of you who have already made up your mind, you can ignore this posting (noone is gonna change your mind, either way!). But for the 10% of you who are, according to the polls, undecided, take a look at this article that originally appeared in The Guardian UK (it was commissioned by the Italian newspaper, La Republica).

It's a very thoughtful exchange of letters between Arthur Schlesinger, who was in JF Kennedy's cabinet, and Timothy Garton Ash, a British political writer. Schlesinger, in his letter, beseeches the Europeans not to give up on America; we are a little sidetracked right now by the policies of the current administration. Ash replies that Europe will never forget what America has stood for in the past, but that in acting in strength now, America has not acted wisely.

Pretty good reading, and certainly thought-provoking.

Go here: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/091204J.shtml

Miulang

[Miulang]

Good thing Bush isn't running for President of the World!

The issue before us, the American electorate is this: does the US want to continue to perpetuate the Lone Ranger go-it-alone-in-the-world mentality in world affairs (Bush), or do we want to play nicey-nicey with the leaders of the UN and other countries who could help extricate us from Iraq and Afghanistan and reduce the threat of worldwide terrorism?

Funny thing is, the rest of the world is so galvanized against us right now, they are still preferring Kerry over Bush even though they know very little about Kerry, the man.

More here: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004Y.shtml

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

The issue before us, the American electorate is this: does the US want to continue to perpetuate the Lone Ranger go-it-alone-in-the-world mentality in world affairs (Bush)
Hey, you're insulting the Lone Ranger. George W. Bush Ain't No Cowboy (http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0439/baard.php).

[Miulang]

Hey, you're insulting the Lone Ranger. George W. Bush Ain't No Cowboy (http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0439/baard.php).
Bahahaha! OK, then. How about "Maverick"? No wait. I used to like that TV series. Hmmm....how about "Outcast". Wait! Wasn't that a TV show, too? I was gonna say "John Wayne" but that's no good, either. Everybody loves John Wayne!

Jeez...Some days you just can't win for losing...and this is one of those days.

Miulang :D

P.S. Anybody who was thinking of watching the Presidential debate tomorrow night shouldn't bother. Especially not the 10% "Undecided" voters. The "Rules of Engagement" are soooo stupid and juvenile (no making faces at each other or making personal comments, etc. etc). That ain't no debate. It's a staged, scripted event with no way for any intelligent American to be able to assess the quality of either candidate. Give me some sweat on the upper lips...the twitch of the brow...

[Miulang]

For the cynics who believe that there is no more free speech in this country, there stands the Lone Star Iconoclast, which is the newspaper for Crawford, Tx (the Prez's home town). Last week, they issued an editorial endosing the Kerry/Edwards ticket over the Bush/Cheney ticket, and gave good reasons why they believed they needed to make that statement.

Naturally, this has brought out some of the best and the worst in people determined to express their own opinions...unfortunately, those who disagree with the endorsement have, in some cases, resorted to threats of physical harm to the staff of the newspaper. Why is this necessary in a "civilized" country?

Anyway, the Iconoclast did print a bunch of letters to the editor (both pro and con endorsement) that are worth reading. Note the tone particularly of those who disagree.

Here:http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/Columns/Letters/email1.htm

Miulang

[Miulang]

Anybody else outraged by Sinclair Broadcasting's insistence that their stations broadcast an anti-Kerry "mockumentary" called "Stolen Honor" between Oct. 21-24 in some of this Presidential election's swing states? the documentary accuses John Kerry of being a turncoat and prolonging the Vietnam war through his testimony before Congress.

A representative from Sinclair claims that they have invited John Kerry to be part of the program and that they weren't sure what parts of the documentary they wanted the stations to air. Yeah right. :mad:

These tactics are used by desperate men in desperate times and should be considered illegal campaign contributions and not impartial reporting.

Here: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/101304X.shtml

Miulang

[Miulang]

More information on the Sinclair brouhaha. I forgot that the Sinclair network was the one that took Ted Koppel's show off the air of their stations the night that he read all the names of the troops killed in Iraq earlier this year.

Here: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/election2004/9894736.htm?1c

Miulang

[Linkmeister]

Ok, my turn (http://www.linkmeister.com/blog/archives/001087.html). I've got some links to various other places in there.

[Miulang]

Ok, my turn (http://www.linkmeister.com/blog/archives/001087.html). I've got some links to various other places in there.
Good stuff. I heard, though, that the Democratic steering committee thinks it's too late for them to halt the broadcast. So what is the Presidential Election Committee going to do with the protests that are now coming in?

Miulang

[Miulang]

Guess we haven't lost all our international friends yet. In today's Moscow Times, Vladimir Putin has come out endorsing Dubya by saying that if Kerry wins, terrorism also wins. Gee, I wonder how much foreign aid we had to promise Vlad in order to get that endorsement? :rolleyes:

More here: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/10/19/002.html

Miulang

[Albert]

"In today's Moscow Times, Vladimir Putin has come out endorsing Dubya by saying that if Kerry wins, terrorism also wins. Gee, I wonder how much foreign aid we had to promise Vlad in order to get that endorsement?"

Evidently Russia intends to endorse the Kyoto Protocol. Embarrassing for Bush2, so Russia won't do it until after the election. :)

[mcnabbmcnow]

Good thing Bush isn't running for President of the World!

The issue before us, the American electorate is this: does the US want to continue to perpetuate the Lone Ranger go-it-alone-in-the-world mentality in world affairs (Bush), or do we want to play nicey-nicey with the leaders of the UN and other countries who could help extricate us from Iraq and Afghanistan and reduce the threat of worldwide terrorism?

Funny thing is, the rest of the world is so galvanized against us right now, they are still preferring Kerry over Bush even though they know very little about Kerry, the man.

More here: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004Y.shtml

Miulang


Actually, funny you say that. The two countries that would prefer Bush, are Israel and Russia. In Israel it is about 64-28%. They would vote for Bush over Kerry...two countries who have had their fair share of terrorism....Also, I believe the President/Prime Minister of Japan wants Bush re-elected.

[pzarquon]

Actually, funny you say that. The two countries that would prefer Bush, are Israel and Russia. In Israel it is about 64-28%. They would vote for Bush over Kerry...two countries who have had their fair share of terrorism....Also, I believe the President/Prime Minister of Japan wants Bush re-elected.Bush also got a nod from the head of Iran's security council (http://newsobserver.com/24hour/politics/story/1749871p-9585329c.html). Not surprisingly, Bush campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel said, "It's not an endorsement we'll be accepting anytime soon." :)

Regardless of one's party and leanings this election, I think the level of interest from foreign countries and the once-unheard-of head-of-state endorsements of either candidate is remarkable. Conventional wisdom holds that you don't make such statements, especially in a neck-and-neck race, because you might very well have to end up working with the opponent. This year, perhaps, folks on both sides feel the stakes are too high to pretend to be neutral.

[Vanguard]

This radio ad made me want to vote for Kerry :D (http://images.radcity.net/5145/792261.mp3)

[Miulang]

Actually, funny you say that. The two countries that would prefer Bush, are Israel and Russia. In Israel it is about 64-28%. They would vote for Bush over Kerry...two countries who have had their fair share of terrorism....Also, I believe the President/Prime Minister of Japan wants Bush re-elected.
The Asahi Shimbun, one of the leading newspapers in Japan, conducted a poll, along with several other international newspapers, which asked their subscribers whether the US was right or wrong to invade iraq. The results are below.

Israel loves the US because we're on their side in the Palestinean homeland crisis, and the Russians love us because of all the money they're getting via the Food for Oil program and other US-backed programs. According to the poll, the majority of Japanese don't think the US was right to invade Iraq, although they might like us more now that we're getting ready to ease the USDA ban on importing Japanese beef.

http://www.asahi.com/english/world/TKY200410150139.html

Miulang

[Miulang]

Found this article in today's E-commerce Times. Big business traditionally has always been for the Republicans. In one very interesting case, though, the Chairman of Intel, Andy Grove, says he's definitely not going to support Bush this year.

He rakes the Bush Administration over the coals for creating the flu vaccine shortage and says that if the government can't even get that straight, how can anyone expect the government to get more complex business and technology issues (like outsourcing technical jobs overseas) straight either? It is very curious that neither campaign has made a big deal out of science and technology being used to make peoples' lives better, though. And come to think about it, why didn't they bring the ethical issues surrounding implantable chips in human beings up during the second or the third Presidential debate? News about the FDA approval of the implanted RFID chip for "certain" medical conditions had already been released by then.


http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/37478.html

Miulang

[Steve Gulitti]

VOTE FOR YOUR OWN BEST INTERESTS ON NOVEMBER 2ND

Guns, gays and God, with all the discussion that these topics get today one would think that the American people were pretty well situated when it comes to jobs, retirement, health care and other important matters. Why are these so called “wedge issues” getting so much attention when so many other seemingly important matters remain unresolved?

Lets put things in perspective. The Second Amendment does not guarantee anyone the right to own a gun per se. It does allow gun ownership for the purpose of participating in an organized militia. That said, no one is proposing that people give up their firearms. The issue is regulating the access to handguns and military assault weapons and their use in committing a crime. The vast majority of law enforcement professionals are in favor of such regulation. That marriage between men and women has been on the decline for the past thirty years has nothing to do with homosexuality. Outlawing gay marriage will not lead homosexuals to seek sex heterosexual partners, they will simply continue to cohabitate outside of a legally recognized status. Mandatory jail time for adultery would do more to support traditional marriage but that seems a bit too drastic. I’ve never met God but due to certain life experiences I am quite certain of his existence. At the same time I can’t bother him with mundane issues like having a job, paying doctor bills or meeting my mortgage. The separation of church and state has served us well for over two hundred years. Anyone favoring a change in that practice should take a good hard look at the theocracy ruling Iran or the disruptive influence of religious political parties in Israel.

The Real Issues

JOBS: Thirty-two states have fewer jobs and forty-six have higher unemployment than at the start of the recession in 2001. Average income in expanding industries is $8,532.00 lower than where jobs are declining. Average family incomes have declined by $1,511.00 in 2004 while median household income has fallen for three straight years. Eighty percent of the new jobs are classified as low paying. This is the first administration since Herbert Hoover to preside over a net loss in employment and that is not a myth.
TAX EQUITY AND GOVERNMENT SPENDING: The tax burden has shifted from wealth to work. Wages and salaries are taxed at twice the rate of capital gains and dividends. The bulk of the tax breaks have gone to the top two percent of taxpayers resulting in the greatest tax disparity since the 1920s. Next year the average tax savings to those in the bottom tax bracket will be $91.00, for the middle bracket: $863.00, and for the top one percent: $59,292.00. Government spending is twice as high as it was during LBJ’s Great Society and one and a half times higher than during the Clinton years. According to the General Accounting Office taxes would have to be doubled or government programs cut by fifty percent to get back to a zero deficit.
SOCIAL SECURITY: Alan Greenspan had suggested that the budget surplus of the 1990s be used to secure the Social Security Program but instead it has been squandered. Eighty percent of those over the age of forty favor some type of governmental guarantee of old age retirement. The Administration’s plan to privatize a portion of Social Security could result in a windfall of billions in fees to Wall Street and a reduction of benefits to retirees.
HEALTH CARE: The reform of Medicare is 150 billion dollars over the projected cost with the cost to the recipient having risen seventeen percent this year alone. Americans pay more for health care yet receive less than do the citizens of any other advanced nation. Employers are shifting a greater percentage of health care costs to employees or eliminating coverage altogether. Seventy percent of the uninsured now have full time jobs. Prescription drugs are higher by sixty six percent compared to Canada and double the price paid in Europe. The Administration’s Medicare reform expressly prohibits the government from negotiating lower purchase prices.
IRAQ: That the rush to war was characterized by a lack of logic; faulty intelligence; a questionable list of “imminent threats; an unsubstantiated link to Al Qadea; a lack of a strategy for managing the peace or exiting the region; and the alienation of important allies and world opinion is now an established fact. Claims of victory or being on the road to that end are self-delusion and political spin. The war has turned out to be a costly distraction from what should have been a well thought out program of insuring domestic security while fashioning an effective strategy for eradicating terrorist cells throughout the Muslim world. To much time, money and manpower has been tied up in Iraq. The net result has been a further radicalization of the Muslim world and an increase in recruitment into Al Qadea and like-minded organizations. In all honesty, in it’s strategic planning; Al Qadea doesn’t care which party controls the White House.

Think About Your Vote

On the morning of November 2nd leave the television and the radios turned off and think about where the country is heading and what kind of society you want to live in. Ask yourself if you are better off today than you were four years ago and to what extent you have let “wedge issues” and fear mongering get in the way of voting for what is ultimately in your own best interest.

Steven J. Gulitti
New York City
October 27, 2004

[Konaguy]

Absoultely Hillarious {and true} :D
http://www.boomchicago.nl/Section/Videos/BoomChicagoVotingMachine
mms://streamingmedia.cyso.nl/cyso.nl/Voting_Machine.wmv

[JTracey]

I've finally figured out what the W in "George W. Bush" really stands for.

It's not "Walker" as we were led to believe. It's "worst," as in this guy is one of the worst Presidents ever.

He's reacted to problems rather than prevent them. He ignored warning from several credible sources about serious and specific threats from Al Qaeda.

Richard Clarke, former advisor on counter-terrorism for all Presidents from Ronald Reagan to George W. Bush, laid out the threat (in writing) from nearly day one. On January 25th, 2001, just a few days after Bush was inaugurated, Clarke laid out the threat. Bush didn't act on it until September 2001. Clarke's memo has since been classified.

Other sources, including a British intelligence briefing in August 2001, warned Bush prior to 9/11 (see http://www.sundayherald.com/24822). Bush’s daily briefing on August 6, 2001 contained warnings that Al Qaeda was planning to attack on US soil and that they were interested in hijackings.

In the seven and a half months from his inauguration to 9/11, he spent more time on vacation or asleep than almost any President that I can think of it. He used to be proud of it. No longer.

What about health care? During his administration, health care costs have soared, posting double digit cost increases while the average family's income is stagnant.

He's given carte blanche to lobbyists for big business, including pharmaceutical companies, leading Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) to refer to one piece of Bush legislation as "No Lobbyist Left Behind."

Meanwhile, seniors have struggled to keep up with drug costs. Some on the mainland have resorted to taking bus or train trips to Canada to save money. Others are trying to import the drugs from Canada, but the Bush administration has blocked this.

Warnings about the potential problem with the flu vaccine went unheeded from 2001 until now. One of Bush's proposed solutions was to contact the Canadian government and request help. During the final Presidential debate, Bush mentioned this. I nearly fell off my chair.

While Canada does have a surplus of the vaccine, and they are willing to help, Canada is a nation of 32 million people. They couldn't possibly bail out the USA, with 9 times the population!

This is too little too late. I think even Bush realized what a crock it was when he said it. I remember the look on his face that said "I know this sounds really lame, but..."

(Why the Canadian government is willing to help is beyond me. The Bush Administration has abused Canada and other allies on trade and on priorities in the war on terrorism. To their credit, Canada bit its collective lip and did the right thing.)

I could go on for days...The Bush administration's record on a number of issues is abysmal. He's the first President to lose jobs since Herbert Hoover. The American economy has lost over 800,000 jobs according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics since Bush took office.

Like his father, he has focused heavily on Iraq, but casualty rates are higher than many expected.

Terrorism continues around the world and many of the weak spots at home (cargo containers, etc.) have not been addressed.

Policing has not been as well funded as it should be and Bush has not worked to renew the Assault Weapons Ban, putting the lives of police in danger.

Nuclear sites in Iraq have gone unguarded, radioactive material has gone missing, but the Oil Ministry has been secured.

Multi-billion dollar contracts with Halliburton and other GOP contributors have been awarded with insufficient scrutiny.

Republican backers Diebold have expanded the use of their flawed voting machines into 11 states. (Hackers from Rice University and Johns Hopkins have exposed weaknesses). Meanwhile, many of the problems in the electoral process have not been addressed, potentially making the USA a laughing stock again.

Based on his record, Bush doesn't deserve a second term. America deserves a President, not a cheerleader.

[Karen]

We are at war! Now, I do admit that as I first heard that we are at war, & I mean right after 9-11, for a long time, I just didn't buy it, didn't let the severity of the times sink in. I refused to see that the terrorists WERE/ARE at war with us. I saw it as a one-time action. I didn't let the truth totally dawn on me for a long time, even a couple of years past 9-11, the infamous one.

The truth has fully dawned. We are at war, the enemy is a friggin coward that doesn't put on a uniform & identify himself, he is a member of a terrorist army & they are all waiting for the chance to strike again, this IS WAR & the most diabolical of all. We can't pull out of this one, they are on our shores & it is just a matter of time till they show themselves again.I now see that the end of the age, what bible truthfully speaks of will be so horrible because of the types of warfare. Atomic isn't the worst, but the surprise of terrorism is, by cowards that won't identify themselves per uniform, like we do.

This IS the most important election of this nation's life. We already were at culture war with our peers of this nation, and now the fight of good vs. evil is one of terrorism AND culture.

I was seriously condisering going to Haleiwa all day, election day, for most of this year, instead of voting. I now see that I have no choice BUT to vote, & I see that there will never be a perfect man run for office. I see that to get to the top, to even have many people offer money to elect you, you have to play politics, & I will no longer blame Bush FOR doing so.

I clearly see he is MUCH better than the fake persona of Kerry. Bush has the balls to stand against terrorism, he is probably doing his best within a large administration, & bottom line is Bin laden WANTS Kerry. This nation is NOT giving him Kerry. Sad that some are blind enough to still vote for Kerry, voting for the maniacal terrorists (bin laden & his army) that will still attack us no matter who's in office.

[Konaguy]

I clearly see he is MUCH better than the fake persona of Kerry. Bush has the balls to stand against terrorism, he is probably doing his best within a large administration, & bottom line is Bin laden WANTS Kerry. This nation is NOT giving him Kerry. Sad that some are blind enough to still vote for Kerry, voting for the maniacal terrorists (bin laden & his army) that will still attack us no matter who's in office.

If we stopped being the world's supercop and stop meddling in places
like the middle east and stop supporting Israel we would be way better
off. Right now we are targeted because of our meddling nature in world
affairs.

What is making it worse is Bush's divisive foreign policies. He is isolating
us from the rest of world. Plus his huge error in Iraq is sucking dry our
ability fight more critical threats like North Korea. Making things worse Bush's domestic policies have been a dismal failure.

Basically I would hate to see how really fragmented America is in 4 years
if Bush gets re-elected. Too many people are looking at the short term
effects. What about the long term effects. You don't have to worry about
paying off a massive debt rung up by yours truly. I bet you don't even
care, " oh let the future generations worry about that."

Thus John Kerry has my vote and NO ONE is going to change my mind

[craigwatanabe]

OH well I just heard today that the Associated Press Poll on the Electorial College states that it's a dead heat for the Presidential race and that Hawaii could be the tie breaker.

Well...as we know our electorial college votes are all democratic so if the west coast still puts the EC votes at a tie then it won't matter what anyone votes here in Hawaii, Kerry wins because I hardly doubt that Hawaii's congressmen will vote republican.

This is the exact reason why I don't believe in the EC! Now if our EC was like California's well yeah but we only have four and all four are democrats, it doens't take rocket science to figure which way our EC will vote. If you can count the party affiliation of each state and the party for which every state's EC comes from you pretty much can figure out who's gonna be the next president even before the campaigning begins.

Tell me why our individual vote for President is so important when our EC is all one party? It makes no sense at all. Congress dictates who will be the next president, not your individual vote. So focus your vote on your congressional leaders not the president if you want to change or strengthen your party's power.

[Karen]

I also am against our having troops in over 130 nations! Problem is, this is both Dems & GOP administrations that keep our military as police of the world. Clinton had us in way over 100 if not 130 nations, too. Every admin has done this for way too long. You can, like me, gripe about this all you need to, it is not going to change no matter who sits in our white house, sadly.

We would NOT be safer if we stopped doing anything we are, now. the mindset of those that hate us is that they must avenge the blood of those of theirs already dead, so no matter what we do, stay in Iraq, or pull out, we're in deep danger, the army wishing to attack again is among us in plain clothes, the cowardly men they are, and they will attack again when they can. This war is NOT about to end.

Ever heard of a burglar, for example, or rapist that told their victim to obey them, and that they then wouldn't hurt them, but when they were finished obeying the maniac, they were killed anyway?! Of course this happens a lot.

Bin laden wants Kerry because he knows Kerry lacks the will to fight, and that Kerry said his own plan is to "have summits," as if you can negotiate and be okay with bully terrorists! Weakness or just the appearance of it causes bullies to salivate, and attack more. Bin laden prefers "summits" to our taking military action and he WANTS KERRY.

Kerry, if he has any brains, soul, wisdom and light, is very embarassed at being endorsed by the terrorists, horrible as they are.





If we stopped being the world's supercop and stop meddling in places
like the middle east and stop supporting Israel we would be way better
off. Right now we are targeted because of our meddling nature in world
affairs.

What is making it worse is Bush's divisive foreign policies. He is isolating
us from the rest of world. Plus his huge error in Iraq is sucking dry our
ability fight more critical threats like North Korea. Making things worse Bush's domestic policies have been a dismal failure.

Basically I would hate to see how really fragmented America is in 4 years
if Bush gets re-elected. Too many people are looking at the short term
effects. What about the long term effects. You don't have to worry about
paying off a massive debt rung up by yours truly. I bet you don't even
care, " oh let the future generations worry about that."

Thus John Kerry has my vote and NO ONE is going to change my mind

[Linkmeister]

Karen, I don't really see how Kerry is "endorsed" by the terrorists. Osama's appearance seemed to me to say to GWB, "Nyah, Nyah, missed me." This is the guy who was "wanted, dead or alive." He's the guy who not so long later was trapped in Tora Bora but was allowed to escape because our soldiers were not allowed to go after him; the job was outsourced to Afghan warlords who didn't work very hard at it. And this is the guy who, in May 2003, Mr. Bush said, "doesn't concern me very much."

Google for that material. It's out there from respectable newspapers, not the wild-eyed left.

[j3rr3y]

HAHAHA
that was really funny... :D
edit:
but I don't think there is any truth behind it

[Konaguy]

HAHAHA
that was really funny... :D
edit:
but I don't think there is any truth behind it


sure there is plenty of truth behind it. Try looking at
http://www.blackboxvoting.com/
http://www.safevotehawaii.com/

[admin]

With Election Day upon us, this thread has been closed and rolled here (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=3497).