Poor pronunciation

[Glen Miyashiro]

Argh! I can't stand it any more!

Hawai'i, Havai'i. Either one's OK. But listening to HPR, I constantly hear Kayla Rosenfeld say Hawa'i (ha-WA'-i), and even worse, Chad Blair says Hawai (ha-WAI), with no 'okina at all. It just grates on my ears.

[Albert]

Oh well, they've got some announcer on KHPR right now who says "con-sair-toe" (poor Dvorak).

Bad form to do that just before they are going to beg, plead, and nag us to give money in their (sigh) upcoming Fund Raising.

As for the name of these islands, I grew up with my Mama saying "hi-wah-ya", no matter how many times she visited here.

[Ailina]

As for the name of these islands, I grew up with my Mama saying "hi-wah-ya", no matter how many times she visited here.
You got that right. No one can butcher pronunciation like the South! "haw-WYE-yuh"...

[Kalani]

Argh! I can't stand it any more!

Hawai'i, Havai'i. Either one's OK. But listening to HPR, I constantly hear Kayla Rosenfeld say Hawa'i (ha-WA'-i), and even worse, Chad Blair says Hawai (ha-WAI), with no 'okina at all. It just grates on my ears.
hahaha, you sound just like me! In one forum, under my profile I mentioned this. That it doesn't matter how you pronounce it, as long as the 2 "i"s are mentioned.

It seems that people consciously think about the V sound that they mispronounce it anyway b/c they omit the 1st "i".

[kamlost]

Wasn't it that just till a few years ago people did not pronounce the second i?

[Glen Miyashiro]

Wasn't it that just till a few years ago people did not pronounce the second i?
You're right that many people don't pronounce the second i, but it's always been there. These days, with more people paying attention to the Hawaiian language, it's become more common for people to emphasize the pronunciation.

I went and checked Pukui, Elbert, and Mo'okini, and they said:

The orthography used in the Pocket Dictionary represents the slow speech of careful speakers. Normal fast speech differs in several ways. Some of them are:
[...]
(b) Like vowels separated by a glottal stop reduce to glottal stop plus vowel: Hawai'i becomes Hawa'i, pua'a 'pig' becomes pu'a.

The Pocket Hawaiian Dictionary, 1975
So this isn't exactly a new issue, nor is it strictly a bad thing I guess. Just sloppy speaking.

[Linkmeister]

Can I throw in the one that drives me crazy? It's from the English language, but still:

You. Televison weather ladies. The word is temperature. Thefirst "r" is not silent. "Tempachur" is incorrect.

Then there's "liberry" for library. What's so difficult about pronouncing your "r's?" It's not like they need to be rolled (don't ask me to pronounce "Nicaragua" correctly; I'll screw that up big time).

Diction, I say, diction! :D

[Kalani]

You're right that many people don't pronounce the second i, but it's always been there. These days, with more people paying attention to the Hawaiian language, it's become more common for people to emphasize the pronunciation.

I went and checked Pukui, Elbert, and Mo'okini, and they said:


So this isn't exactly a new issue, nor is it strictly a bad thing I guess. Just sloppy speaking.
I know that issue is brought up in HAWAIIAN GRAMMAR as well as the regular dictionary, but this is the first time I've heard of the same thing with "Hawaii". But the question is, is it a recent thing? B/c the fusion of vowels with those examples actually is a natural occurance, not limited to the Hawaiian language.

[AuntieNellieKulolo]

The word I always have trouble with is mu'umu'u. OK, I know it should be two syllables instead of four, but it seems kind of...pretentious? pedantic? himakmaka? especially coming from my haole mouth. :D How do you pronounce it?

[Miulang]

The word I always have trouble with is mu'umu'u. OK, I know it should be two syllables instead of four, but it seems kind of...pretentious? pedantic? himakmaka? especially coming from my haole mouth. :D How do you pronounce it?
If you want to be correct, you need to pronounce every letter (should be 4 syllables). If you want to be like the tourists who don't know any better, you could say "moomoo", but I crack up laughing at the visual image of someone being swathed in a baggy cowskin :eek: !

Miulang ;)

[Glen Miyashiro]

What's the difference between a mu'umu'u and a mu'u? I have heard of both but I'm no fashion expert. Is a mu'u only half as long? :)

[Mokihana]

Can I throw in the one that drives me crazy? It's from the English language, but still:

You. Televison weather ladies. The word is temperature. Thefirst "r" is not silent. "Tempachur" is incorrect.

Then there's "liberry" for library. What's so difficult about pronouncing your "r's?" It's not like they need to be rolled (don't ask me to pronounce "Nicaragua" correctly; I'll screw that up big time).

Diction, I say, diction! :D

Here's my "grating on the nerves" favorite: News people who leave out the C in Arctic and say "Artic"...... Arggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!

[AuntieNellieKulolo]

I taught English for a couple of years in Venice, Italy, and constantly overheard tourists saying 'gon-DO-la'. As annoying to a speaker of Italian as a Midwesterner saying Hawaya...

:mad:

[Mokihana]

You're right that many people don't pronounce the second i, but it's always been there. These days, with more people paying attention to the Hawaiian language, it's become more common for people to emphasize the pronunciation.

I went and checked Pukui, Elbert, and Mo'okini, and they said:


So this isn't exactly a new issue, nor is it strictly a bad thing I guess. Just sloppy speaking.



So are you saying that fast speaking is sloppy? It sounds a little confusing to me, what Pukui et al are saying... The orthography used in the Pocket Dictionary represents the slow speech of careful speakers. Normal fast speech differs in several ways. Some of them are:
[...]
(b) Like vowels separated by a glottal stop reduce to glottal stop plus vowel: Hawai'i becomes Hawa'i, pua'a 'pig' becomes pu'a.


If normal fast speech would say "Hawa‘i", then is it sloppy or just fast? Are there any native Hawaiian speakers whose first language was Hawaiian say it this way? Or would they use the slow form of speech and put in both of the i's?

That said.... when I was growing up, no one said "Hawai‘i", the way it should be said. As a matter of fact, still yet, when I run into locals here on the mainland, it's easy to tell if they're old-timers because they say "Hawa‘i", same as when I was growing up. Most of the locals I know say it that way... it's how we said it growing up, when there wasn't the wonderful emphasis on the language that there is today.

And that said, because the Hawaiian language is so important to me, I now say "Hawai‘i". It feels right. Like now I say "mu‘umu‘u", even though growing up, we never did.

[dick]

Interestingly enough, growing up on Maui, we always pronounced Hali'imaile as "hailee-mailee" ; Omaopio as "omo-pioh" and Ma'alaea as "mah-lie-ya." Most everyone I knew pronounced them that way. If they were to be pronounced correctly, everyone would be like, "where?"

[Glen Miyashiro]

Interestingly enough, growing up on Maui, we always pronounced Hali'imaile as "hailee-mailee" ; Omaopio as "omo-pioh" and Ma'alaea as "mah-lie-ya." Most everyone I knew pronounced them that way. If they were to be pronounced correctly, everyone would be like, "where?"
"Ma'alaea" really trips me up. I know that the local Maui pronunciation is way far from the textbook pronunciation, and I keep trying to find a happy medium between the two. It's not easy. :p

[Miulang]

I think the "sloppy pronounciation" of local Hawaiian place names and objects is a vestigial remnant from our immigrant parents and grandparents who would have had a hard time pronouncing the double vowels. Now it's just a habit and laziness on the part of the kama'ainas.

If we want to honor our Hawaiian legacy, we should, whenever possible, try to pronounce Hawaiian words correctly; the tourists and malihinis don't know any better; kama'ainas should know better and set a good example. :)

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

One of my pet peeves is Mauka and Makai. Everybody pronounces Makai correctly but not Mauka.

[pzarquon]

Hmm. What's the right and wrong way to pronounce Mauka?

One common mispronunciation is Wahiawa. Pretty much everyone says "Wa-hee-wa." But it's actually Wahiawā, with a short 'a' after the 'hi' and a long 'a' at the end -- "Wa-he-a-WAH." Then there's ‘Aiea, to which many add an extra ‘okina. It's ‘Aiea, but people say Ai‘ea!

[Glen Miyashiro]

One common mispronunciation is Wahiawa. Pretty much everyone says "Wa-hee-wa." But it's actually Wahiawā, with a short 'a' after the 'hi' and a long 'a' at the end -- "Wa-he-a-WAH." Then there's ‘Aiea, to which many add an extra ‘okina. It's ‘Aiea, but people say Ai‘ea!
I too have noticed that some people put 'okina into other words that don't need it, like "Hana'uma Bay" (it's spelled Hanauma, and pronounced ha-NAU-ma, not hana-uma). I think the problem is that they think that Hawaiian doesn't have any dipththongs (blended vowels), and that every Hawaiian vowel has to be separate and distinct. Hawaiian diphthongs do exist, and sometimes they blend vowels from separate phonemes, like how Kaimukī is pronounced kai-mu-kī even though the name's meaning parses out as ka-imu-kī (the kī imu). The four-vowel diphthong in 'Aiea really throws them for a loop. :p

[Glen Miyashiro]

I think the "sloppy pronounciation" of local Hawaiian place names and objects is a vestigial remnant from our immigrant parents and grandparents who would have had a hard time pronouncing the double vowels. Now it's just a habit and laziness on the part of the kama'ainas.
That's probably true, especially for the harder-to-pronounce words. Just cuz you local doesn't mean you Hawaiian.

[Pelix]

hehe... peronsally i like "havai'i" best. :)

[Ailina]

And that said, because the Hawaiian language is so important to me, I now say "Hawai‘i". It feels right. Like now I say "mu‘umu‘u", even though growing up, we never did.
I'm glad to read you say "mu'umu'u!" When I was there, everyone referred to it as "moo-moo." I've taught my kids to say "mu'umu'u," and even though I know it would sound awkward in certain circles, we know it's correct.

[AuntieNellieKulolo]

I think the "sloppy pronounciation" of local Hawaiian place names and objects is a vestigial remnant from our immigrant parents and grandparents who would have had a hard time pronouncing the double vowels. Now it's just a habit and laziness on the part of the kama'ainas.

If we want to honor our Hawaiian legacy, we should, whenever possible, try to pronounce Hawaiian words correctly; the tourists and malihinis don't know any better; kama'ainas should know better and set a good example. :)

Miulang

Well said. K'den, I going say mu'umu'u from now on, even if I neva wen say 'em li'dat growing up.

:)

[aleno]

Hi, My tutu Lady always used the term moo moo. She wasn't educated as her siblings were but she was born in the 1890's and she knew how to speak hawaiian. I don't think it was the immigrants fault but those who grew up as Hawaiians who used the terms in their everyday language.
I believe the words were used by all. Place names were also used in the same fashion. My family was from Punalu'u but it was refered to as Punalu. As far back as I can remember into the 1960's and even when I found out it was spelled Punalu'u, I still say Punalu.
I'm glad the Hawaiians have decided to go back to the original pronounciation of words but lets not forget, many Hawaiians pronounced hawaiian from what they were taught.

[pzarquon]

One of my pet peeves is Mauka and Makai. Everybody pronounces Makai correctly but not Mauka.Since an HPR citation started this, and since you mentioned "mauka," I thought I'd give credit where credit is due. One of the Maui correspondents (Lilian Zahn? I can't quite make out her name) specifically said "ma uka" yesterday. Weird that it sounds wrong after all these years, even when you know it's technically correct.

[kimo55]

What's the difference between a mu'umu'u and a mu'u? I have heard of both but I'm no fashion expert. Is a mu'u only half as long? :)


if yer too lazy to say mu'umu'u and even too lazy to say moo moo, ya say mu'u.


unless yer regerring to kalo.

[Glen Miyashiro]

...and now I'm gonna pick on poor pronunciation of Japanese words, too. NPR just had a short piece on the izakayas of Vancouver. An izakaya is a Japanese pub. The way the NPR reporters said it, it sounded like they were talking about the obscure Biblical prophet "Izzachiah". :eek:

Hey NPR, repeat after me: ee-ZAKA-yah! :mad:

[jdub]

...and now I'm gonna pick on poor pronunciation of Japanese words, too. NPR just had a short piece on the izakayas of Vancouver. An izakaya is a Japanese pub. The way the NPR reporters said it, it sounded like they were talking about the obscure Biblical prophet "Izzachiah". :eek:

Hey NPR, repeat after me: ee-ZAKA-yah! :mad:

mahalo, glen! now when i put my japan tour together, i'll be able to find my gigs!

[alohabear]

Speaking of mispronoucing
why do a lot of locals say, Kaneohee not Kaneohe? It always cracks me up....I actually heard this on a Hawaiian Kapena CD once.

[jdub]

i've always been tickled by the way local folks add an "s" onto everything:

"so what, you like go costcos? rock za's? femme nu's? L&L's?"

"bartendah, can get one heinekens?"

[Pomai]

What about naturalized U.S. citizens (formerly immigrants) who've lived here almost their ENTIRE LIFE who still can't, or refuse to make an effort to pronounce ENGLISH properly? :mad:

That's like living in Japan for 10 years and still saying, "AIR'EE'GAH-TOE GOW'ZAY-MAS'SU"? lol

Then again, doesn't President Bush still say, "NOO'KEE'LUR" and "TERRST"?
:p

[Pomai]

i've always been tickled by the way local folks add an "s" onto everything:

"so what, you like go costcos? rock za's? femme nu's? L&L's?"

"bartendah, can get one heinekens?"

LOL!

What about surfer style "half-the-word" abbreviations:

"Brah, rights was mean!". (right breaking wave)
"Whoah, Points was going off! (Point Panic)
"So what? Bowls?" (Ala Moana Bowls)
"Wheah you like grind, Jack's'? (Jack in the Box)
"Wheah you like grind, Zips"? (Zippy's)
"Whoah dat was unz" (uncool)
"We go cruise Waiks!" (Waikiki)

[MadAzza]

i've always been tickled by the way local folks add an "s" onto everything:

"so what, you like go costcos? rock za's? femme nu's? L&L's?"

"bartendah, can get one heinekens?"

Another localism: In words ending with "ct," only the "c" sound is pronounced.

For example, "impact," a word that should never be used as a noun in the first place (pet peeve), becomes "impack." Newscasters and politicians are the worst offenders.

Family confession: My mom moved here about eight years ago, after Dad died. The first time I heard her say "Ewa," I just about fell off the sofa laughing. "Eeee-waaah."

Bless her heart, she's a Cherokee/Scot from Georgia who grew up in Oklahoma and Florida before marrying a Swede and moving to the Pacific Northwest, so I guess she has a lot of her own "local" influences battling one another. And now she knows how to pronounce Ewa. But sometimes she says it the wrong way just to make me laugh.

[Lalalinder]

It drives me nuts when i hear "a-tha-leet" for athlete and "heighth" for height. You don't say "weighth" do you?

[Leo Lakio]

Speaking of mispronoucing
why do a lot of locals say, Kaneohee not Kaneohe? It always cracks me up....I actually heard this on a Hawaiian Kapena CD once.
...and Kelly Boy even lives there...

[Rickyrab]

Soaw! Haow's the boiys in Hoi-woi-ee? (attempting an old Brooklyn/ Noo Yawk accent here, which is tough cuz I never properly had a Brooklyn accent, and intending to say "so! how's the boys in Hawaii?")

When I was growing up, Hawaii to me was Hah-wah-ee.... nowadays the glottal stop has come in: Hahvah'ee or Hawa'ee, something like that. (Although, since I've heard of Havaiki, I've been tempted towards Hava'ee...)

To me:
Kilauea = Kill-awayah
Mauna Loa = Mawnah Lowah or Ma-unah Lowah
Oahu = Owahoo
Honolulu = Hahnohlooloo
Waikiki = Why-ki-ki
Lanai = Lan-ay, but I've heard of the glottal stop and now think a bit of "Lanah'ee".
tiki = tih-ki.
Loihi = low-ee-hee
And, yeah, admittedly, muumuu = moo-moo, lol. :)

And how are they supposed to be pronounced?

[Rickyrab]

Another localism: In words ending with "ct," only the "c" sound is pronounced.

Me: Look at the duck crossing the bridge!
Nudnik: Vhy a duck?
Me: Yeah, it's on the viaduct.
Nudnik: Yeah, but vhy a duck?

(/bad joke)

[Mokihana]

One of the other ones much mispronounced is Waikīkī. Before the emphasis on correct pronunciation, all locals I knew pronounced it Waikikī. Unless you were a tourist... then it was usually Wackykee. :D

[MadAzza]

It drives me nuts when i hear "a-tha-leet" for athlete and "heighth" for height. You don't say "weighth" do you?

"Weighth for me, Heinth, I'm trying to cat-thup!"

[Pomai]

My GF bought a pair of Uli Uli implements for a Hula Dancing job a while back.

She showed an aunt who was visiting, "Aunty, check out the new Uli Uli I just bought from the Hula Supply Store."

Aunty was casually offended in how GF pronounced it and corrected her.

GF pronouced Uli Uli "OOH'LI-OOH'LI" (connectively quick)

According to aunty, it's supposed to be pronounced, "OOH'LEE OOH'LEE" (quick "ooh, extended "lee")

Aunty claimed the way GF pronounced it is a bad word for a man's "you-know-what" things that produce swimming tadpoles.

Seriously, anyone know if there's a truth to that? Looking upon my Hawaiian dictionary, it mentions Uli Uli being a hula implement, but nothin' mentioned about it also meaning a man's "huli huli's". :confused:

[kamuelakea]

You know what i love about Hawaii residents today.

They spend so much energy on the proper pronuciation, enunciation, diction and syntax of Hawaiian and Japanese.

Meanwhile, they butcher English and are proud of it.

I'm all for speaking all languages "properly" whatever that is, but the hypocrisy is humorous.

Did I say that correctly?

[kimo55]

enunciate,

when a sister sees another sister at da convent have dinner.




diction

what a lesbian does.


syntax

extra payment on cigs and likker.
of course.