Flash Memory cards

[helen]

Anyone got any good or bad experiences with the various flash memory cards. The type used for digital cameras, PDA and whatever?

For me I have been using CompactFlash since August of 2003 when I purchased a Veo Capture 1300 that used it. At the time I purchased the camera I also brought a PNY 32Mbyte CompactFlash card.

Since then I picked up other cameras which are the Argus DC3200, the SiPix SC3300 and the Aiptek DV3100 and all three of them use CompactFlash to store the images.

And I got at least 15 cards ranging from 32MBytes to 512Mbytes from various brands which include PNY, SanDisk, Lexar and Memorex. For the most part I have been happy with what I got but I do have a couple of horror stories that related to the card itself verus the camera.

Case in point was the second card that I purchased a few weeks later which was a Memorex 32Mbyte card. When I used the PNY 32MByte in the Veo Capture 1300 I was having problems with the camera accepting the card, after a couple of times turning the camera off and on, it finally accepted the card and I could take pictures. When I used the Memorex 32Mbyte card it took longer for the camera to accept the card. Of course I didn't tell this to anyone so I accept it as a fact of life with the camera.

A month or two goes by and whenever CompUSA had specials on CompactFlash cards I would buy them. I purchased a PNY 64Mbyte and then later a PNY 128Mbyte card. The Veo Capture 1300 camera accepted these cards with no problem, so I just kept the 32Mbyte cards as just in case.

When I brought the Argus DC3200 around December, without thinking I used the Memorex 32Mbyte card on that camera and the camera accepted the card with no problem. Never needed to cycle the power. So I take some test pictures and I got really crappy shots. The URL below shows an example of this:

http://www.hawaiistories.com/gallery/album15/Cnxt0024

My first reaction was that I was using the camera improperly. So I took more test shots. Some of them came out okay at first but after awhile it turns out badly again. So I took more test shots that resulted with still crappy images.

Because the Argus DC3200 was kind of a cheap camera and the fact that it wasn't moving that much at CompUSA lead me to believe that this camera was really junk, but after talking to a co-worker who purchased the same camera that the real problem was not the camera but maybe the CompactFlash card I was using.

So trying one of the PNY cards on the Argus DC3200 solved the image capture problem and my outlook on the Argus also changed as well. So much so that when the price dropped to $40 I picked up a second camera (if it ever dropped to $25, I try to horde some from CompUSA).

[pzarquon]

I don't have any specific advice, but I find it fascinating that the memory would have an impact on image quality. I figure, if it's a flash storage device, it either mounts and works or it doesn't. It's certainly not subject to the kind of odd degradation that affects old magnetic media, I figure.

I stuck with CompactFlash for as long as I could, as it was my favorite format. But then most of the devices I wanted to use went with SmartMedia. I still think they're more prone to failure (because of the exposed terminals), but the capacities have kept up with other formats, so it's okay. (I also have Memory Sticks because that's what Sony, and pretty much only Sony, uses.) Of course, now even those formats are being given up for SD/MMC, xD, and who knows what else in the future.

My primary problem is that these things are getting too small! I mean, I've lost CF cards, and they're relatively huge today compared to the size of an xD card (http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/cpg_xd.asp). What good is 512MB of photos if your cat can swallow it? :p

[helen]

I don't have any specific advice, but I find it fascinating that the memory would have an impact on image quality. I figure, if it's a flash storage device, it either mounts and works or it doesn't. It's certainly not subject to the kind of odd degradation that affects old magnetic media, I figure.

I don't have any theories as to why it did. Granted it was the only Memorex CompactFlash that I had. I did buy those SanDisk 256Mbyte CompactFlash cards from Costco for around $40 which is a pretty good deal and I picked up four of them across time with #1 in October, #2 in Feburary and #3 and #4 in April, about 2-3 weeks apart. What's strange is that #3 does not want to work in my Aiptek DV3100, it just hangs the camera at startup and the only way to get around it is to remove the batteries from the camera. But if I take this card to my PC it has no problem using the card. I can save data on it with no problem. It ended up at work whenever I need to transfer data between machines that don't have access to a file server.


My primary problem is that these things are getting too small! I mean, I've lost CF cards, and they're relatively huge today compared to the size of an xD card. What good is 512MB of photos if your cat can swallow it? :p

The other side of the coin is trying to view the photos on a 512MB card. This past weekend I managed to capture over 300 photos at 2048x1536 and it used up around 1/4 of the 512MB card.

[pzarquon]

What's strange is that #3 does not want to work in my Aiptek DV3100, it just hangs the camera at startup and the only way to get around it is to remove the batteries from the camera.Just a quick note to say that this is a common problem if you regularly access your camera media directly via Windows, as a mounted external drive. What can happen is, various Windows processes - whether 'viewing thumbnails' when viewing the card in Windows Explorer to using Windows to format or clear the card - can remove things a camera is looking for hidden in the card's BIOS (or whatever it's called). Olympus cameras have this issue, and I have two SmartMedia cards that are now only good on my PC, not in my camera.

There's a way to restore it, by getting into the obscure hex code hidden on the card, but I haven't the patience.

[mel]

Just a quick note to say that this is a common problem if you regularly access your camera media directly via Windows, as a mounted external drive. What can happen is, various Windows processes - whether 'viewing thumbnails' when viewing the card in Windows Explorer to using Windows to format or clear the card - can remove things a camera is looking for hidden in the card's BIOS (or whatever it's called). Olympus cameras have this issue, and I have two SmartMedia cards that are now only good on my PC, not in my camera.

This problem is probably not unique to the PC. I use both Memory Stick for my Sony digital cameras and Compact Flash for my Canon Camera. If you fool around with the contents of the card while it is connected to your computer (Mac in my case) like adding on another folder, the card's formatting can get messed up. I know I messed up a Memory stick big time on my Mac once and the only way to restore it so that the camera could read it was to REFORMAT the thing in the camera again. Lucky for me, I had already saved all of the images to my computer before the card was reformatted.

Remember to think of these cards as another hard drive and if you use it enough times in your computer I think in time the card will take on the attributes of whatever operating system the computer is running and shut the camera out from it.

That said I have thought about using a CF card as a straight on hard drive substitute for just backing up temporary data for transport or other purposes. These things work just like quiet zip drives without the threat of the click of death if you use them with a card reader such as the ones offered from "Dazzle".

[helen]

The SanDisk 256MB card that gave me the problem did this was straight from the box. Even tried a couple of times to reformat the card from the PC and that didn't help.

And I do tend to reformat the cards from time to time after I transfer the photos to the PC.

[helen]

So trying one of the PNY cards on the Argus DC3200 solved the image capture problem and my outlook on the Argus also changed as well. So much so that when the price dropped to $40 I picked up a second camera (if it ever dropped to $25, I try to horde some from CompUSA).

Stopped by CompUSA on Wednesday evening and there are selling the Argus DC3200 for $20. Picked one up.

[dick]

I use CF cards daily for work. They are a very reliable media to store images from a digital camera. But there are ways to ensure that they work for you all the time, and it matters not what size, speed, etc. Be sure reformat your card everytime in-camera. Never, ever, reformat the card on your computer and expect it to work properly in your camera. Download the images to a seperate folder on your HD, remove it from the reader, and reformat in-camera. Do a full-format in-camera every month (or more often) again, in-camera. There are quick format functions in-camera, but there is often left-over data on the card which could affect reliablility in the long run.

If you get corrupt images such as Helen's example. Pull the card, do a full format in camera, and take test shots. Is the card still acting up? If so, throw it away. Were these bad images saved at the end of the card's memory? Don't fill the card to capacity. Save a few megs of space. Images stuffed into the very end of the card are more likely to be corrupted.

I've run CF cards through a full laundry cycle, and they still held images and worked fine.

Also, I use relatively small cards. I work on the all-my-eggs-in-one-basket theory. I usually put about 80-100 images on a card, then switch out. Should the card become corrupted (and they do -- CF cards have a finite life span), I'll still have images on another card. It's like having multiple rolls of film.

Another thing, unless you're shooting on a tripod in a studio, microdrives are very dangerous things for image storage. Since these actually contain moving parts (unlike CF cards which are solid-state), they are very vulnerable to impact. Especially when writing data to the disk. While the price might seem attractive, the potential for data loss far outweighs the savings.

[helen]

Been noticing that the prices have been dropping on these cards. Picked up a 128 Mbyte CompactFlash card for $30. Last year for that price would have gotten me a 64 Mbyte card.

1Gbyte cards are selling for under $100, never mind that fact none of my cameras can use such a card.

[EastCoastTropics]

Mahalo Dick for the great advice on the CF cards. I got a new digital camera for Christmas from the hubby and kids and have a 1GB CF with it. I've been downloading all the photos to my HD on my PC, remove from the reader, but haven't reformatted in-camera! Will make certain to do that now that I know! Forturnately, I haven't gotten any corrupt images.

I did a price comparison for 1GB CF cards and the least expensive I found at Sam's Club for $70.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Sony Vaio notebooks have Memory Stick slots, and it makes it really easy to move pictures from a Sony camera to a Sony notebook. Most new desktop PCs these days have slots for memory cards, but aside from the Sonys I haven't seen any notebooks with card slots. Are there any others?

[helen]

I was setting up a Gateway laptop for a co-worker last month and I noticed that it had a slot for one of the flash memory cards but not for a Compact Flash card. Could have been for a SD card

[EastCoastTropics]

My husband has a HP laptop and has slots for Flash and CF cards.

[pzarquon]

I think it's interesting that everything from laptops to printers to high-end televisions now have slots for flash media built into them. The proliferation of consumer digital still and video cameras have basically rewritten what's considered a "basic" electronic interface. Bye bye, coaxial, hellow SD/MMC!

[Glen Miyashiro]

I guess I haven't looked closely at the new notebooks. Thanks for the reality check, folks. :D

[helen]

Prices have been dropping on CompactFlash cards, picked up a PNY 512Mbyte card from CompUSA this week, was on sale for $30.

[pzarquon]

I get the strangest feeling that CompactFlash is disappearing as a media format. I'm having more and more trouble finding them, particularly under familiar brands, and a lot of online retailers report them as discontinued outright.

[mel]

This is going to be real bad for owners of several Canon cameras like the original Digital Rebel 300. I guess I better stock up on Compact Flash cards.

[helen]

I could agree about the lower capcity cards, I doubt it you can find 32Mbyte or 64Mbyte CompactFlash card nowadays, but the 256Mbyte or higher are still available.

[pzarquon]

The growing popularity of high-capacity microdrives (in the CF form factor) will probably be the saving grace of the format, such as it is. Newer pro cameras have CF slots with the full expectation that you're not going to slip a 256MB flash chip in there, but instead a 4GB IBM microdrive.

[dick]

Like I mentioned earlier, I'd avoid microdrives at all costs. Anyway, most photogs use 2 or 4 GB CF cards. I prefer 1 GB as the largest. I use a Canon 20D and 1D MarkII which create 8 megapixel files. Depending on the ISO I'm shooting at I can get about 250 - 320 images per card (shooting JPEG FINE - I rarely, if ever, shoot RAW). Interestingly enough, the 1D has two slots - one for a CF card (still industry standard, and will be for the forseeable future), and one for one of those SmartMedia things. I only use the CF slot, though.

[EastCoastTropics]

Prices have been dropping on CompactFlash cards, picked up a PNY 512Mbyte card from CompUSA this week, was on sale for $30.

Mahalo for the heads-up on this....gonna go check it out and get me one if they have any left....

[mel]

I bought a 1GB SanDisk compact flash card at Comp USA yesterday. They're selling these for $79.99. They seem to have a pretty good supply of compact flash cards in their showcase. There were some of the $29.99 512MB cards there too.

[mel]

I prefer 1 GB as the largest. I use a Canon 20D and 1D MarkII which create 8 megapixel files. Depending on the ISO I'm shooting at I can get about 250 - 320 images per card (shooting JPEG FINE - I rarely, if ever, shoot RAW).

I think one of the advantages of using a smaller card (and just like anything else) is the fact that if your card should unexpectedly crash, you don't lose as much data as a larger one. Of course smaller cards mean you have to carry more of them around.

I agree about the RAW format. Nice pictures, but those take up a lot of space... not to mention I usually have to dumb them down to JPG anyway if I want to use them. A high-res JPG can be used as is, dumbed down smaller or converted to TIFF.

[craigwatanabe]

I prefer the SD cards over the Compact Flash cards.
1) They're more compact than CF cards
2) Less contacts to to get dirty

Yes those contacts are exposed but typically only when not in use. Those contacts are easier to clean than CF cards and provide a greater contact area than pins. Electronics being my hobby as well as a career, SD contacts are superior to pin contacts as found in CF cards.

And I've seen SD cards that pivot to create USB 2.0 contacts within the same dimensions as a typical SD card. So no thumbdrive needed for those computers that have no SD card slot.

[EastCoastTropics]

Mahalo for the heads-up! Got myself the 512MB for $30 at the local CompUSA. I'm all set now for my trip to Oahu next week. Have a 1GB CF and that holds 285 images. The 512MG holds 142 images so I'm all set.

[mel]

I prefer the SD cards over the Compact Flash cards.

Most people are locked into the memory card format they have depending on the camera they are using. Like for my Canon 300D Rebel, the only card it takes is Compact Flash and the microdrive derivative of that format. The newer 350D takes SD now. Of course money for this kind of high end cameras don't grow on trees... and this is the low end of the high end too.

My Sony cameras both use only Sony's memory stick card format. They are the only manufacturers who use that format. Luckily Sony cameras are quite popular so unlike the Betamax, their memory stick is not going away very soon.

I also noticed that Fuji's newest camera the S9000 uses Compact Flash. It was just introduced yesterday according to dpreview.com.

So if camera manufacturers are introducing new gear using Compact Flash who is to say that this format is going the way of the Betamax?

Of course consumers could always look into the memory card format before they buy a camera, but I think most people don't. They buy the camera and the memory card format is an afterthought.

Good thing I have a SanDisk 8 card USB reader connected to my Mac. I can take any memory card and read it into the computer. Those are pretty good and sell for around $35.

[pzarquon]

I have several CF devices, so I also hope it's not going anywhere soon. I was just saying that there was definitely a period quite recently where availability seemed very low. Maybe there was another fire at another obscure chip factory in Southeast Asia?

CF was my favorite format for a while, since it seemed so sturdy and easy to understand. The exposed contacts of SD were a worry, too. But, I too came to learn that pins aren't all that great, and at least you can clean a contact like the one on an SD card.

xD cards, though? Those are scary. You could lose hundreds of photos if your cat swallows it!

[mel]

xD cards, though? Those are scary. You could lose hundreds of photos if your cat swallows it!

Yes, they are. Of course if the cat ate them, you can always wait for your pictures and the card to come out of the other end of the cat. :D

[craigwatanabe]

Like a poloroid or hemorroid :D

I'm one for simplicity and the few contacts on an SD card means fewer bad connections than a CF card and that means less data transfer failure. The problem with CF's pin slots are the fact that they are many little wells in which dust can accumulate and with Hawaii's humidity, this dust can turn into insulation as it fills the pin holes up plus the male pins on the camera can eventually get bent and so much for your camera's contacts.

[helen]

So far I have been sticking with the CompactFlash as my personal standard when buying digital cameras with removable media. Like Mel I do have those 8-in-1 media readers on my computers (Lexar on my work and old Compaq PC, while my new Compaq came with it as standard on the tower) should the occiasion arise if I am going to another card standard in future or I get a card from someone else.

I did pick up another CompactFlash card today from Best Buy, it was a SanDisk 128 Mbyte card, it was selling for $19. CompUSA was advertising them for $18 but ran out when I was there on Tuesday.