Hawaiian Culture

[Kalani]

While leisurely going through many of the old threads over the past week or so, I noticed how typical and racists one can be in regards to Hawaiian culture. It's "racist" when one uses the word "Haole", usually in a demeaning way, but it's okay to criticize Hawaiian culture or aspects of it b/c they don't seem to follow the norms of those who strongly follow western tradition as demonstrated on the issue of iwi and how they are seen by some people in this community as either meaningless or not even worth mentioining or being handled in a proper way.

What would happen if someone began building over a place where Christian were buried? Or where Caucasians were buried? Blacks? Now we certainly would hear it from the NAACP if that ever happened.

I am posting this here and tackling the issue at hand rather than go back to the old threads back in July and respond to that very issue when more likely the person responsible for posting such insensitive and racist remark would never reply.

In any case, what I'd like to know is of the Hawaiian culture, why is it that people think "hula" seems to be the only cultural thing that should be elevated and idolized whereas everything else is looked at as "garbage" or claim that we are making a fuss over nothing. Seriously, can non-Hawaiians put themselves in our shoes? I highly doubt it.

As the saying goes by others of People of Color, unless you look the part and have experienced some type of discrimination would you ever know. I do, I've gone through that back in the 70s. We live in a new time and I am not about to experience humiliation and discrimination like I did growing up by supposedly adults that are semi educated.

[Miulang]

As the saying goes by others of People of Color, unless you look the part and have experienced some type of discrimination would you ever know. I do, I've gone through that back in the 70s. We live in a new time and I am not about to experience humiliation and discrimination like I did growing up by supposedly adults that are semi educated.

Aloha e, Kalani:
You're exactly right about the above statement. Growing up in the 'aina, I was always part of the "majority" so I never knew what discrimination was. Then, when I went to college in Ohio, I became one of the "minority". Ho! Talk about culture shock!

When you walk in someone else's shoes (or moccasins, as Peshkwe might say), you begin to understand why you need to temper some of your biases with a least a modicum of respect for others. I might never really know all there is to know about the kanaka maoli and their traditions and culture, but I can certainly respect their right to believe what they do and how they practice it.

Miulang

[kimo55]

It's "racist" when one uses the word "Haole", usually in a demeaning way, .


haven't seen that here. I HAVE seen the term used in a descriptive way. To describe the attributes and details of a person and what they are doing that elicits the scenario and dialogue.

[craigwatanabe]

When cultures clash there's always misunderstanding and sometimes war between them. At Kalani High School where I graduated back in 1978, the "local" bruddahs and the rest of the student population had a general meeting in the upstairs library.

This meeting was put together by the student council and the principal to find a common ground between the mokes and everybody else.

As it turns out the mokes felt intimidated because of the intelectual differences coupled with grammer. It astounded all of us because everybody else felt intimidated by the shear brutality of these buggahs. None of us ever thought we would be the intimidators but that's the subtle message that was conveyed to these guys.

After the meeting there was a better understanding of each other's feelings but by year's end, it was back to the general attitude of beating the crap out of any Japanese kid with a Pan Am bag. I still have mine as a reminder of those days.

So now that a lot of us have graduated and continued onto professional careers and most of us are the bosses of those braddahs who beat the crap out of us in school and really for no reason it's no wonder why there is this indifference to their suffering. It has nothing to do with the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom, heck we're all supportive of some kind of resolution to that, but emotional scars run deep when Junior Boy comes up to you and asks for one job, "Eh wassup remember me we wen grad same year" "Yeah I remember you so what your kid beating up my kid now?"

But before you judge another man you should first walk a mile in his moccasins (yeah Miulang I remember that indian quote too), same holds true for the victim of the perpetrator. Being the akamai Japanese kid in High School I walked that short mile by taking those classes those mokes took and bonding with them. We both had mutual respect for each other but it wasn't just the poor Hawaiian kid vs the rich Japanese kid. We were both insensitive to each other's cultures. In high school, the negative way in which Haole was used came from the very group that felt criticized by virtue of their Hawaiian culture.

Haole is a hawaiian word and it became a negative conotation when someone added the word F@#kin before it and pointed it at the first Caucasian that deserved to be called that. Is it no wonder that today's modern caucasian (who had nothing to do with the overthrow) feels a bit indifferent to the plight of Hawaiians? And I do understand. I was in Denver Colorado at Aurora Mall when this very Haole lady came up to me and slapped me in the face yelling, "it's all your fault...for bombing Pearl Harbor". Now I was 18-years old and this was 1978. I wasn't even born then. And the worst part was that I was serving in the US Air Force defending her right to accuse me of being the enemy! Boy the negative side of Haole wanted to come out that day but I was in uniform and took the slap with dignity.

Regarding other virtues of Hawaiian culture, there is a revitalization of the culture more than Hula. Kalani where are you located? Because I can understand if you live on the mainland and don't see the resurgance of Hawaiian culture (and respect for it) going on here in Hawaii. But if you do live here, then I cannot understand especially the people you refer to that think of everything else as garbage? Certainly not the people who live in Hawaii. I don't think the resurgence of canoe building (since Hokulea) is garbage or Hawaiian Language Immersion schools for that matter.

Now more than ever there is a greater awareness of Hawaiian culture going on in local business, our classrooms, and in our families. I tell my kids (part Hawaiian from my wife) that instead of learning Japanese language they should learn Hawaiian. I teach them how to respect the Aina. I may not be Hawaiian but when you live on land rich in Mana you have a greater respect for it and with that comes understanding, something some Hawaiians have yet to learn.

I may not be Hawaiian but I've walked the lava fields barefoot in respect for the land and have trekked to ancient places of worship to pay my respects while passing by. I live in a community rich in Hawaiian heritage yet I'm 100% Japanese born local here in Hawaii. I may not be Hawaiian but I think there are Kanaka Maoli out there who know less about their own culture when hate overcomes them and modern conveniences corrupt their souls.

The fact is that there are a lot of Hawaiians who cannot put their foot in their own cultural shoes because they've lost the ability to do so. And there are a few of us non-Hawaiians that can because we choose to embrace the culture in it's respect for the Aina.

As far as racism, to the Haole being called one in a negative way, he's the victim. For the Hawaiian who's culture is trashed by meaningless commercial exploitism of it, their victims as well, either case both are victims and both are at fault. I guess caucasians are people of color when they come to Hawaii and feel the rub just as I felt that rub going to Colorado. I've walked that mile and then some and can make those critical remarks because I've been there on both sides and felt the humility and respect for and from my adversaries.

[kimo55]

Haole is a hawaiian word and it became a negative connotation when someone added the word F@#kin before it and pointed it at the first Caucasian that deserved to be called that.


right.
So, there's haole. and there's F@#kin haole.

[Miulang]

Simplistically, I think it's OK to dislike an individual person for whatever reason (assuming they did something bad to you personally), but how can you broad brush contempt on an entire group of people based on their skin color, religion or anything else? Seems to me that for every good person of one nationality, race, religion or whatevas, you're gonna come across an equally rotten one. and it's the rotten ones that make other people broad brush a whole group in the wrong way.

Xenophobia is one sure way to have discrimination and hate crimes. Why did Mother Teresa work among the poorest of the poor in India? She certainly wasn't bucking for sainthood. She was compassionate yes, and she also knew, from living among these people, how wretched their lives were and she spent most of her life trying to help ease their suffering.

Miulang

[kimo55]

how can you broad brush contempt on an entire group of people based on their skin color, religion or anything else?

Xenophobia is one sure way to have discrimination and hate crimes. Miulang


....not sure if anyone here is exhibiting xenophobia.
(hatred or fear of strangers or foreigners)

However; the general and consitent behaviour of many 'strangers' to these islands (for the last hundred plus years or so) certainly may assist in the development of an attitude that may elicit a response of "F@#kin haole" at ONE individual if and when that person does something reprehensible. This in NO way says; "I hate ALL foreigners"
Now. IF... the reader assumes this is the intent or the message, THEY are the racist.

[Miulang]

....not sure if anyone here is exhibiting xenophobia.
(hatred or fear of strangers or foreigners)

However; the general and consitent behaviour of many 'strangers' to these islands (for the last hundred plus years or so) certainly may assist in the development of an attitude that may elicit a response of "F@#kin haole" at ONE individual if and when that person does something reprehensible. This in NO way says; "I hate ALL foreigners"
I was not implying anyone on these threads actually could be or should be considered racist. However, I also believe if you (not you personally, mind you) don't or won't try to understand what others believe in, then you're being an elitist xenophobe. My definition: someone who hates strangers or foreigners because he believes he is better than anyone else. I never use the "h" word in any of my conversations (even when in Hawai'i) because most people think of it as something perjorative and not merely a nonjudgemental description of a caucasian. Kimo, you've travelled around the country enough to know that those people who only have lived in one area all their lives and don't know about anything else are the ones who are most likely to be xenophobic and have twisted, racist opinions about others they don't understand.
right.
So, there's haole. and there's F@#kin haole.
So Kimo, does that imply that a "haole" is simply a nonpolitical description of a Caucasian and the latter kind of haole could actually be a non-Caucasian exhibiting typical Caucasian characteristics? Could a local Asian American be called a F@#kin haole too? :confused:

Miulang

[kimo55]

Kimo, you've travelled around the country enough to know that those people who only have lived in one area all their lives and don't know about anything else are the ones who are most likely to be xenophobic and have twisted, racist opinions about others they don't understand.

Miulang

yes.
everything is yellow, to the jaundiced eye

[Miulang]

yes.
everything is yellow, to the jaundiced eye
Housed in a body filled with green bile and ignorance :D .

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

okay okay lets not get all poetic and all dakine mumbly jumbly la dat. If you going be one asshole den you deserve to be called whatever your culture's word for it is. But it's like God or Jesus. As a Christian, I don't like it when someone uses either name in vain. It's an assault on my beliefs and shows a lack of integrity from the mouth it came from.

So really F@#kin Haole really shouldn't come together because F@#k really desecrates the Hawaiian language by it's insertion :eek: . Actually it desecrates even the English language too.

But like George Carlin said, "F@#k it's such an innocent word meaning to procreate as opposed to KILL because I'd rather watch a Western where the bad guy tells the Sheriff: Okay Sheriff we're gonna F@#k ya now, but we're gonna F@#k ya real slooowww." And who said Westerns were boring :eek:

[Miulang]

I also think that when any perjorative word becomes commonplace within a language, then it dilutes the meaning. Hence, to say go f--- yourself has become so common that its original perjorative meaning kinda disappeared (that's why I think Dick Cheney wasn't chastised too much when he uttered those words in Congress). I've always thought a true insult would be to tell someone to "go un---- yourself!"

I wouldn't use any Christian terms in vain, either, or anything smacking of any religion because I never know who might be listening. Now Craig, what do you make of the people who call themselves Christian but who espouse beliefs different from yours?

Miulang

[kimo55]

So Kimo, does that imply that a "haole" is simply a nonpolitical description of a Caucasian Miulang


well being for the most part very apolitical, no.
I mean yes.
ah hell. it's jess a freakin haole.
most o da time a caucasian from the mainland. And the ones that give the mainlanders a bad name are mostly from L.A.

This is in no way prejudicial. It is postjudicial. I don't pre judge. I judge after i get all da faks in.
k den.

[kimo55]

Housed in a body filled with green bile and ignorance :D .

Miulang



iiiiieeeuuugh...!

[kimo55]

okay okay lets not get all poetic and all dakine mumbly jumbly la dat.


why not?!


look! we're being repressed based on our personal cultural linguistic choices!

[kimo55]

So really F@#kin Haole really shouldn't come together because F@#k really desecrates the Hawaiian language by it's insertion :eek: . Actually it desecrates even the English language too.


wait. after all the desecration to these islands committed by da "F@#kin Haole", we gotta be concerned about dis now?!

I'll leave that to anal retentive bean counter bureaucratic politically correct manini mister language person.

[kimo55]

So really F@#kin Haole really shouldn't come together because ....

But like George Carlin said, .....



soooo, asked and answered within your own post!

[kimo55]

But like George Carlin said, "F@#k it's such an innocent word meaning to procreate as opposed to KILL because I'd rather watch a Western where the bad guy tells the Sheriff: Okay Sheriff we're gonna F@#k ya now, but we're gonna F@#k ya real slooowww." And who said Westerns were boring :eek:



personally I am very offended by this statement.
cuz it should be:

"we're gonna F@#k ya very slooowwwly"

[kimo55]

(that's why I think Dick Cheney wasn't chastised too much when he uttered those words in Congress). Miulang



uhhh, nooo. That's cuz by then erryone's ears were shot ta hell from Teresa Heinz Kerry's profanity.

As well as Kerry's favorite comedienne at his gathering and her foul mouth.

[Miulang]

uhhh, nooo. That's cuz by then erryone's ears were shot ta hell from Teresa Heinz Kerry's profanity.

As well as Kerry's favorite comedienne at his gathering and her foul mouth.
Don't hate her because she's (gasp!) a foreigner and a tough broad businesswoman who gives away millions of dollars every year, OK :D? I think at least she's got some piss and vinegar in her, unlike Stepford Wives Laura. :)

Miulang

[kimo55]

Don't hate her because she's (gasp!) a foreigner and a tough broad businesswoman who gives away millions of dollars every year,
Miulang no, I like any woman that does that. DON"T like the profanity. And if stepford wife implies lending much needed dignity to that station, that's good enuff for me.

Piss and vinegar should be left at home in the bathroom and the kitchen. Not displayed in public to that extent.

[Miulang]

no, I like any woman that does that. DON"T like the profanity. And if stepford wife means dignity in that station, that's good enuff for me.


Piss and vinegar should be left at home in the bathroom and the kitchen. Not displayed in public to that extent.
It may just be a "cultural thing" for Teresa. She's Mozambiquan, daughter of a diplomat, studied in South Africa and Geneva, got a job at the UN. She's been surrounded by very powerful men most of her life (including her marriage to Sen. John Heinz). After his death, lots of people wanted her to run for his seat, but she instead went on to become chairperson of 2 Heinz endowments. In order to succeed, she's had to emulate many of the characteristics of the men who surrounded her (Remember Maggie Thatcher? Same thing). She's got quite an extensive CV of accomplishments. I don't necessarily condone her talking like a man, but at least I know she has strength in her convictions and is a doer, and not necessarily a follower.

What does Laura Bush's CV look like? Former teacher and librarian, mother to 2 hell-raising daughters.

Miulang

[kimo55]

Laura Bush

Former teacher and librarian, mother to 2 hell-raising daughters.

Miulang


that's good enuff for me, too
Nothing ignoble about those two positions. I am proud to say, I am a former teacher. and I grew up in libraries to a great extent and I was a librarian too.

[Miulang]

that's good enuff for me, too
Nothing ignoble about those two positions. I am proud to say, I am a former teacher. and I grew up in libraries to a great extent and I was a librarian too.
Yeah, but I bet you don't have 2 hell-raising daughters! :p

Miulang

[kimo55]

Yeah, but I bet you don't have 2 hell-raising daughters! :p

Miulang


progeny = irrelevancy

[Miulang]

progeny = irrelevancy
Strictly O/T, but how your kids turn out is a reflection on the parents and their skills, I think.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

This post is getting so F@#ked up! Darn and to think it all started with a simple theme of Hawaiian Culture.

Hmmm...So should you use your finger or a spoon when sampling poi at a gathering? :)

[kimo55]

This post is getting so F@#ked up! Darn and to think it all started with a simple theme of Hawaiian Culture.

Hmmm...So should you use your finger or a spoon when sampling poi at a gathering? :)
hmmm.
I would have my own bowl. 2 finger, one finger whatevahs.
use fingers at small gathering with ohana.

but big gathering or some wackywacky beach public haole tourist luau, nutting from da communal bowl fer me t'anks!

Strictly O/T, but how your kids turn out is a reflection on the parents and their skills, I think.
on topic;
i teach kids to appreciate poi with one finger or two. No spoons. haole way, ugh..
try things the Hawaiian way. there's a good book on that subject i think with that title:
Doing things the Hawaiian way.
wherein with alotta illustrations, shows how to do create things... prep food, make clothing, etc. the old Hawaiian way. This is a great book for kids of all ages to use in order to appreciate our land and people

I think this kinda thing is greatly missing in Hawaii., Too much emphasis in schools and the media on whats cool and irrelevant trends and vacuous pastimes from the mainland.

I believe more of what was taught to the ancients should be brought to the forefront in early days of education, when da keiki can learn the respectful "wholistic" ways of the original people.

Respect of the aina. But not just buzzwords and empty slogans like that which, like many pidgin sayings, have degenerated into nothing more than a t shirt or bumersticker slogan.
Why and how tdid the ancients respect the aina? What did they feel about the ocean? How did they show repect? What rituals, concepts, religious and philosophical teachings were disseminated ?

My stepfather's aumakua was the mano, so, I was taught much at an early age about our relationship with the shark. and the water.

The ancient Hawaiians loved and greatly respected the ocean. This was where they lived. their source of food. It was the embodiment of a sacred God to them. And now, to see the wanton thoughtless treatment at all levels, now that this sacred land and its surrounding waters have been taken over, stolen, subdued, destroyed and generally in a daily fashion, shown no respect or reverential treatment as is its due, as it was for hundreds of years past.

It hurts to see firsthand the depressing way things have degenerated. To see tourists walk along the beach fully clothed with shoes on, walking on the shore, throwing their cigarette butts right into the water. Tourists sitting on their aluminum beach chair snubbing their cigarettes out in the sand leaving them as if the whole world is their ash tray or trash can. (They can treat their own home however they want. Litter the 405 or 101 as much as they want. But not our beaches, ocean and land.) To see people allow trash they bring to the beach to wash out into the waves. To witness even our local beachboys and boat crews spit into the ocean. All this breaks the heart of anyone having any connection with our culture or any interest in respecting the ways of the ones who were here before our 'modern civilisation" which is very incivil.

[LikaNui]

It hurts to see firsthand the depressing way things have degenerated. To see tourists walk along the beach fully clothed with shoes on, walking on the shore, throwing their cigarette butts right into the water. Tourists sitting on their aluminum beach chair snubbing their cigarettes out in the sand leaving them as if the whole world is their ash tray or trash can. [...] All this breaks the heart of anyone having any connection with the our culture. any interest in respecting the ways of the ones who were here before our 'modern civilisation" which is very incivil.

Amen to that last part.
And we need to also remember that it's not the tourists who leave abandoned cars and refrigerators and tons of other rubbish along most of the roadsides. Sometimes, even within a few hundred yards of a county dump.
:mad:

[kimo55]

we need to remember that it's not the tourists who leave abandoned cars and refrigerators and tons of other rubbish along most of the roadsides. within a few hundred yards of a county dump.


I don't remember anyone blaming tourists for THAT junk!

[kimo55]

Strictly O/T, but how your kids turn out is a reflection on the parents and their skills, I think.

Miulang


to a smaller degree than most think.

I subscribe to the concept of individual personal accountability.
Esp. after the age of cognition.

[Miulang]

to a smaller degree than most think.

I subscribe to the concept of individual personal accountability.
Esp. after the age of cognition.
True, but parents have the responsibility of teaching their kids about choice and consequences and accountability. If parents aren't good role models, how are the kids supposed to know what's right or wrong? Especially if they don't have religion to teach them these things? Don't say the schools should be the primary places where these things are learned, either. Basic morals should be taught at home.

Which leads back to what's happening to Hawai'i and all the opala. I've been to local Maui county beaches where no tourist is likely to venture, and these are the places that have all kinds of beer bottles and cans, garbage and human waste scattered about. The state parks and beaches are generally well maintained and the "nonlocals" tend to be pretty vigilant about picking up after themselves. I think why the dichotomy between the tourists and the locals exists is because the tourists can rightfully blame the locals for some of the opala that's littering beaches and roadsides--such as the abandoned cars and refrigerators that litter the sides of the roads on Maui. Like you say, many locals take what they have for granted and don't even think about a day when many of the things they appreciate today will be gone.

Miulang

[kimo55]

True, but parents have the responsibility of teaching their kids about choice and consequences and accountability. Miulang

yes. and the kids do with that what they will.
some turn out well, some don't. When the kids are young adults, you don't judge the parents.

[Miulang]

yes. and the kids do with that what they will.
some turn out well, some don't. When the kids are young adults, you don't judge the parents.
You rememba small keed time how our parents used to say "no bring shame on da family by being kolohe and getting in trouble wit da police?" (At least dat's what my parents used to say). Howcum parents today no enforce someting lidat?

Miulang

[kimo55]

You rememba small keed time how our parents used to say "no bring shame on da family by being kolohe and getting in trouble wit da police?" (At least dat's what my parents used to say). Howcum parents today no enforce someting lidat?

Miulang

I do hope that is a rhetorical question.

[Miulang]

I do hope that is a rhetorical question.
Yup. which is why I'm not a parent! :D

[craigwatanabe]

yeah lucky you! I made that mistake 6 times but I guess I still haven't learned...Oh well had fun "learning" :D

But getting back to opala, it's not just the tourists messing up our beaches, look at what happened to Barber's Point? I don't think tourists have discovered that place yet, but ho boy plenty of locals have and look at the mess over there.

What's sad is even over here when I follow the school buses dropping students off at each corner I always see kids throwing soda bottles out the window. I've phoned the school that bus came from but it still happens.

Remember that old PSA made during the 70's showing the indian walking thru once pristine lands desecrated by progress, the final scene of him standing next to a highway, the camera closes in on his face and a tear comes from his eyes? Maybe a local version should be made depicting the exact same thing.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Remember the local slogan from the 1970s, "Lend a hand to clean our land"? I always thought it was pretty effective. Unfortunately the office that used to sponsor all the anti-littering campaigns was abolished by Ben Cayetano due to budget cuts, so now there's nobody coordinating anti-litter efforts in the state. :(

[craigwatanabe]

They had this bird that looked like Big Bird's brother or something. I still have that round sticker somewhere, the one you're supposed to put on your rubbish can. The plastic bag that I got when the program came to our elementary school was made so that if you burned it, it would turn to carbon dioxide. So I burned it and guess what, I contributed to global warming now. :eek:

[nykkybaby]

Ok... I think i understand this right. I am a caucasian, which makes me haole. I can make the decision to be a f*&@ing haole by being ignorant to the hawaiian culture. But I can also be a haole from the mainland who has so much respect and aloha for Hawaii that I am there in my mind everyday. I can understand frustration with people who are uneducated therefore disrespectful to Hawaiian people. But when you see me in the water with my tattoo of Na Pali it states "100% haole" on it for a reason. Respect.

[kimo55]

But when you see me in the water with my tattoo of Na Pali it states "100% haole" on it for a reason. Respect.


haole is also a concept, a state of mind, a persona...
Someone f.o.b. from L.A. and showing no consideration of the island style and the local ways of doing things, or having no thought of "when in rome..." is a haole. But a caucasian that was raised here and has the local culture firmly and deeply intstilled in them, if they steh local style... they are not haole. They are kama'aina. They are NOT kanaka maoli but they could be considered keiki o ka aina. they MAY be white/caucasian, externally, but that is not even evident to other locals. cuz they exhibit braddah braddah kine ....wot... local feel. internally and in their heart, their koko, their actions, aloha feel, they are local. cannot fake that. so they are not refferred to as 'haole". also cuz they are not a foreigner.

[craigwatanabe]

Like I told my Hawaiian friend born and raised in LA: Eh braddah you stay one: Katonka Mahaole not one Kanaka Maoli." Good ting we stay friends so we can joke la dat.

[Konaguy]

I was born and raised here in Hawaii. But I look F.O.B haole
due to fan I cannot tan. I have been raised to be respectful
of local culture.But a lot of times it has been not a two way street as I have been harassed and picked on because of
being haole.

[kamlost]

yah.. there ain't no perfect place here. Go to the mainland and you'd be called pansy for being respectful.

[kimo55]

yah.. there ain't no perfect place here. Go to the mainland and you'd be called pansy for being respectful.


good point. On the mainland it is very fashionable, even necessary for survival to:
be sardonic and very sarcastic in yer communications.
appear as a knowitall.
be as profane as possible. all the time.
Wear black. and flames. and leather and black leather with flames. and skulls.
consider me, me, me, me first and foremost and only .
take what ya can get first or you'll be left behind. this action starts on the 101 and the 405. It carries over to most every other aspect of life.
Put down all other things you don't;
agree with.
understand.
appears different from your own culture.
and if you think you have some affinity to the islands, or "tiki culture", or ukulele, act like only YOU are the only group connected to the islands. act like only YOU own and can disseminate information on yer own knowledge handed to you from the gods on this subject. cuz after all you know if you appear like a king thug you will be respected....

('least that's the way it appears, generally. OB-viously there are exceptions to this rule.)