Hawaii's Bottle Bill

[Albert]

I noticed at Foodland yesterday that new separate entry on the sales receipt, was surprised the Bottle Bill "tax" is going to be kept separate from the base price of the object. I was also surprised to see it appear this soon, since I understood it doesn't go into effect until November 1st. But I guess Foodland was just getting their computer system ready for it, because that entry was not on receipts this morning.

This surely is going to increase the number of "trashpickers", and that already has begun. I overheard a man in the mall boasting to a friend about his huge bag, evidently filled with plastic bottles he'd harvested. "Five cents apiece!" he said.

Somehow, though, I can't see many people collecting the big, heavy forty-ounce beer bottles in order to profit five pennies.

[Miulang]

I noticed at Foodland yesterday that new separate entry on the sales receipt, was surprised the Bottle Bill "tax" is going to be kept separate from the base price of the object. I was also surprised to see it appear this soon, since I understood it doesn't go into effect until November 1st. But I guess Foodland was just getting their computer system ready for it, because that entry was not on receipts this morning.

This surely is going to increase the number of "trashpickers", and that already has begun. I overheard a man in the mall boasting to a friend about his huge bag, evidently filled with plastic bottles he'd harvested. "Five cents apiece!" he said.

Somehow, though, I can't see many people collecting the big, heavy forty-ounce beer bottles in order to profit five pennies.
This is going to create a whole industry for the homeless, and certainly make the rest of the citizens aware of the environmental costs of not recycling. I think they have to keep that tax separate from the rest of the things on your register list because the state is the one who will be collecting that money (plus, there's no sales tax on food, is there?). Oregon has a bottle bill that requires a deposit on each bottle, WA does not. Oregon has less of a trash on the side of the road problem than WA does.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

I think Costco has been itemizing the "HI BEVERAGE FEE" for a while now.

No one likes taxes, but I'll complain less about taxes for things like this. Besides, unlike, say, a gas tax, you can recoup your money (well, 5 out of 6 cents), if you're the one that does the recycling -- It's just that most folks will just leave it to "someone else," and fortunately there are a lot of "someone elses" willing to do the collecting and returning.

Apparently, there are already some bottlers adding "HI 5¢" - even though you won't get to collect that until Jan. 1.

Here are a couple of informational sites:

Beverage Container Deposit Law (http://www.opala.org/BottleBill/Container_Legislation.htm) (City & County of Honolulu Department of Refuse)
Hawaii Deposit Beverage Container Program (http://www.hawaii.gov/health/environmental/waste/sw/depbevcon.html) (Hawaii State Department of Health)

there's no sales tax on food, is there?
Yes, we do have a tax on food, and on medicine, and on other products that several other states exempt. In fact, we have an "excise" tax, which is a compounding tax, rather than a simple sales tax. Meaning, a product can be taxed several timies already before it's taxed in the last transaction to the consumer.

[Mocha]

Thanks for the links Pzarquon! It's interesting that they want the recycled items in "pristine" condition! I have to remember NOT to crush the cans...I'm used to crushing them so I can get as many as possible into the garbage bag. :p

[mel]

The bottle bill fee is a tax... plain and simple. All new taxes are bad for consumers and in this case also bad for business as this entire program will increase costs for doing business which will be passed along to the consumers.

No New Taxes. Period.

People don't learn. Taxes hurt consumer wallets.

[Miulang]

The bottle bill fee is a tax... plain and simple. All new taxes are bad for consumers and in this case also bad for business as this entire program will increase costs for doing business which will be passed along to the consumers.

No New Taxes. Period.

People don't learn. Taxes hurt consumer wallets.
In many cases, that's true, Mel. But on this particular issue, if you continue on the same/old same/old path of no bottle tax, how would you get people to learn to recycle more? How would you deal with the ever-mounting piles of opala alongside your highways and county beaches? :(

Being fiscally responsible is one thing. Not also being invested in the well-being of an entire island and/or community is not being responsible. Since this tax only affects people who buy their beverages in bottles, there is one alternative, I guess: don't buy any beverage that's in a bottle or can! ;)

Miulang

[pzarquon]

Hey, like I said, I'm no fan of taxes. But taxes on medicine people need to survive (which we do) is one thing, taxing a Pepsi is another. No one's making you drink Gatorade. Heck... buy a big bottle once, pay the tax only once, and fill it at the tap or at a water vending machine.

The "bottle bill" raises revenue for a program that - in a partnership between government, business, and individual people willing to pick up irresponsible people's discards - fights an environmental/social ill that affects everyone. It directly impacts the people who contribute to the problem (buyers of bottled items), yet those who do buy bottled beverages and take the time to recycle will only be minimally impacted. One cent per beer seems reasonable to me to not have to navigate around glass litter in parks or on roads.

Six cents per beer to assuage the guilt of not recycling seems reasonable to me too. :)

[Glen Miyashiro]

Now if someone could only come up with a way to get people to stop throwing their cigarette butts on the ground. Those damned things are made of cotton fiber and they take decades to deteriorate. :(

[Albert]

One advantage of being poor is that you do NOT pay the tax on food ... if you use foodstamps. :)

[Glen Miyashiro]

Albert, does that mean that if you use foodstamps to purchase a beverage, you don't have to pay the 6-cent fee?

[Albert]

"Albert, does that mean that if you use foodstamps to purchase a beverage, you don't have to pay the 6-cent fee?"

I'll have to check that out. Although, usually the "beverages" I buy can't be bought with foodstamps.

Well ... except in some places in Chinatown (where you wouldn't get a receipt anyway ... or be charged tax).

[Konaguy]

The bottle bill fee is a tax... plain and simple. All new taxes are bad for consumers and in this case also bad for business as this entire program will increase costs for doing business which will be passed along to the consumers.


Ok Mel, I guess you do not care about encouraging recycling and want to
spend even more taxpayer money to build landfills or ship our trash to
the mainland. Correct me if I'm wrong or I misunderstand your position.

[Konaguy]

In many cases, that's true, Mel. But on this particular issue, if you continue on the same/old same/old path of no bottle tax, how would you get people to learn to recycle more? How would you deal with the ever-mounting piles of opala alongside your highways and county beaches? :(



Yeah I'm drooling to find out what Mel's solution is :) :D

[Albert]

It's back on Foodland receipts, although they are only charging one cent right now.

[mel]

Hey, like I said, I'm no fan of taxes. But taxes on medicine people need to survive (which we do) is one thing, taxing a Pepsi is another. No one's making you drink Gatorade. Heck... buy a big bottle once, pay the tax only once, and fill it at the tap or at a water vending machine.

You forget that we are now being taxed TWICE for that Pepsi. The general excise tax which hits all goods and services at serveral levels in Hawaii is applied to this. The bottle bill tax is an ADDITIONAL TAX to the cost of the product. And even if you redeem your bottle you are still being hit with the 1 penny the state takes away on every bottle, not to mention the hassle of storing and actually returning the damn things.

You cannot be a "no fan of taxes" and turn around to support a tax increase. Sounds like all of the Democrats down at the legislature.

A consistent "no new taxes" policy is just that. Opposition to all new taxes and tax increases. Here in Hawaii people forget that we have one of the highest tax burdens in the nation. The bottle bill doesn't help ease this burden one iota.

A link for further reading.

Bottle Up The Bottle Bill (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?3ee9e975-bdd5-446c-9c42-90d1ecd7f86f)

This person runs and operates a small business and the implementation of this new tax will hurt her and her own efforts to deal with recycling.

I don't expect any of you tax and spend liberals to understand any of this. I am in the minority here for sure and you guys can all fall on me like a ton of bricks. But I won't change my mind on this issue regarding this tax. And I expect neither will any of you.

So be it.

[mel]

The "bottle bill" raises revenue for a program that - in a partnership between government, business, and individual people willing to pick up irresponsible people's discards

BTW, to me a partnership is something people voluntarily agree to. This is a shotgun partnership as far as state and business "cooperation" is concerned. Government is forcing a program down the throats of business. Plain and simple.

[mel]

Ok Mel, I guess you do not care about encouraging recycling and want to
spend even more taxpayer money to build landfills or ship our trash to
the mainland. Correct me if I'm wrong or I misunderstand your position.

It should remain up to individuals and organizations whether or not they want to recycle. Government should not be forcing this kind of penatly on consumers and taxpayers.

And whether or not we did have a bottle bill, the fact is that another landfill will be built no matter what. The city council faces a deadline I believe to choose a site pretty soon. This has nothing to do with the bottle bill so far.

The bottom line is that people struggle to work for their wages every day and the current mantra of the Demcoratic controlled government is to only think of a way to take more money away from you and I via more taxes such as this.

http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/notax-s.gif

[Konaguy]

Excuse me Mel, but I'm not a liberal nor a conservative. For the record
I am tired of the bureaucracy and taxes that the democrats imposed
on us over the years here in Hawaii. It was why I voted for Linda
Lingle for governor. But I digress that is O/T. I'm just tired of your
babbling saying it is you against the rest of the board. That you are only
conservative and the rest of us are liberals.

" It should remain up to individuals and organizations whether or not they want to recycle. Government should not be forcing this kind of penalty on consumers and taxpayers.

And whether or not we did have a bottle bill, the fact is that another landfill will be built no matter what. The city council faces a deadline I believe to choose a site pretty soon. This has nothing to do with the bottle bill so far."

Look at how trashed up the sides of our roads are Mel with bottles.
You obviously are blind to that. The bottle bill will help alleviate that.
Also you do not know for a fact that if we did have the bottle bill we would not need another landfill. Sorry Mel, but your attitude is me, me, me,me
it seems no offense. But we need to promote eco-friendly initiatives like
the bottle bill.

[pzarquon]

Aaron, you undermine your points by repeatedly and pointlessly wrapping every rebuttal to a conservative point of view with a broad-brush dismissal of Mel and his opinions. And Mel, if you want to help your case, I'd suggest not continuously including a preamble about how everyone here is a closed-minded liberal.

Nothing is black-and-white. You shortchange yourselves and others here if you frame every issue in those terms.

Now. Instead of dissecting each others' personalities, let's get back to the topic, shall we?

You cannot be a "no fan of taxes" and turn around to support a tax increase. Sounds like all of the Democrats down at the legislature.I'm no fan of taxes, but I'm not a down-the-line "no taxes ever" opponent, either. I suppose my liberal leanings are behind a slightly greater willingness to accept taxes as a "neccessary evil" -- I admit, I generally favor social services, public works (parks, roads, other amenities)... While I admire all Americans who achieve the American Dream, I do want there to be a safety net for those who might otherwise fall between the cracks.

I complain more about what my taxes go toward than I do the fact that there are taxes in the first place. And I'd rather pay a tax to go toward reducing litter and environmental degredation than I would, say, an overpriced "Welcome to Nuuanu" sign that no one in Nuuanu wanted. :)

And again, a Pepsi isn't exactly a vital neccessity. If I ever feel the pinch of the bottle bill, hell, I could stand to drink a little less soda. I'd even say we could stand to drive a bit less, but I know transportation is a neccessity for some folks. But I wish we would rework our taxes to exempt food and medicine like other states. That's an application of the excise tax that always pissed me off.

[mel]

Mel, if you want to help your case, I'd suggest not continuously including a preamble about how everyone here is a closed-minded liberal.

To me there is that perception that a lot of people are raving liberals. Especailly when I lurk in those Bush vs. Kerry debates. The mantra in those topics are overwhelmingly against any conservative agenda or value. That is why I reach these broad conclusions. I look at the polls, and the vote is overwhelmingly on the liberal side. (Granted I never bothered with those polls because I am in the definite minority here. I figure let the liberals go in that area and mutually agree on everything against Bush, tradition and conservatism until they all get bored).... Also I monitored the gang pounding poor old Karen had to endure to sustain her viewpoint in support of the president. How can I not conclude that the usual vocal majority here are liberal?

And then Adri got pounded for that Same Sex Marriage topic by the liberals and the liberal leaning moderates. I don't blame him for sticking with the "safe" topics such as lunch and digital cameras.

And of course I get pounded here, there and not everywhere but sometimes in the strangest places where my opinions are stated. Sometimes I feel like just giving up. But someone pressed my hot button today when taxes were mentioned and the pathetic state of Hawaii's business climate. I have been in that business climate war for years now.

Nothing is black-and-white. You shortchange yourselves and others here if you frame every issue in those terms.

When it comes to taxes, black and white it is for me. Sorry. When you see your personal funds sucked out for more taxes and look the long term drain it will create for your pocketbook, it cannot be nothing but black and white... or possibly red in the future... especially for business.


I'm no fan of taxes, but I'm not a down-the-line "no taxes ever" opponent, either. I suppose my liberal leanings are behind a slightly greater willingness to accept taxes as a "neccessary evil" --

I have a very hard time accepting an evil if it personally will be a cumulative hurt to my spending power. Most of our incomes don't increase as much as taxes and other uncontrollable costs.

I complain more about what my taxes go toward than I do the fact that there are taxes in the first place. And I'd rather pay a tax to go toward reducing litter and environmental degredation than I would, say, an overpriced "Welcome to Nuuanu" sign that no one in Nuuanu wanted. :)

Well those expensive signs, the ridiculous and costly BRT project is what our environmentalist and Democrat liberal mayor has produced for us. A huge waste of money on "look-good" projects vs. "need to do" projects. (Damn I beginning to sound like Mufi!!!!) Fiscal policy gone amok at the city level, that is what 10 years of Mayor Jeremy Harris has left us. And now with only 2 months or so left in this sorry administration he wants to toss another $6 million in tax money to pound pylons into a crumbling swimming pool down at Waikiki!

And again, a Pepsi isn't exactly a vital neccessity. If I ever feel the pinch of the bottle bill, hell, I could stand to drink a little less soda.

Hey it's not only soda. I know of some people who only want to drink bottled water. That law is going to severely hurt them.


But I wish we would rework our taxes to exempt food and medicine like other states. That's an application of the excise tax that always pissed me off.

When the bill to exempt food and medicine from the excise tax comes up next session, I hope to see you there testifying in favor of it. Or at least give all the legislators a call or a fax urging them to give the darn bill a hearing. The bill was introduced twice in the past 2 years and it never got a hearing... The Democrats... yes, the liberal wing controls both houses of the legislature and they don't want to have anything to do with this bill.

http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/notax-s.gif

[Konaguy]

Aaron, you undermine your points by repeatedly and pointlessly wrapping every rebuttal to a conservative point of view with a broad-brush dismissal of Mel and his opinions.


I can't help that my views fall between a liberal and conservative point of view.
To put it bluntly I don't like either side the right OR the left. If that is unacceptable to you, Mel or whoever I'm sorry but that is the way I am.

[mel]

I can't help that my views fall between a liberal and conservative point of view.
To put it bluntly I don't like either side the right OR the left. If that is unacceptable to you, Mel or whoever I'm sorry but that is the way I am.

Hey I think one thing we can agree upon now... we are both stubborn in our viewpoints! :)

[Konaguy]

Hey I think one thing we can agree upon now... we are both stubborn in our viewpoints! :)

Funny you should say that, that is what my mom tells me I'm too stubborn :D

[Keith H.]

Well, the bottle bill is going to go into full effect in a couple of days. Just a few thoughts...

For my part, I went to college in Oregon, where the whole bottle bill thing started, and got used to the recycling mindset that permeated Portland in the '90s and still does today. When I came back, I was a bit disturbed about how much waste we just throw away, cans included. So when I heard that Hawaii was thinking about putting a bottle bill in place, I thought, what took us so long?

Our bottle bill, though, definitely looks way different from the Oregon bottle bill...Oregon's deposit is completely refundable, and the state doesn't take any of the money; it just enforces the law if it's broken. None of this 1 cent non-refundable stuff.

Plus, I liked how I could take my containers to the nearest store and get my refund quickly and easily. When I went back this summer to see a friend get married, I bought a 12-pack of soda, saved all my cans and just fed the empties into a reverse vending machine at the nearby grocery store, and got my refund back. Simple. I see on the www.hi5deposit.com website that there's only 20 redemption centers serving almost 1 million people on the island of Oahu. Excuse me?!? :confused: I have to lug the empty cans across town to a redemption center? I can't just take 'em to my neighborhood Safeway?

IMHO, too much politics got into the bill (specifically, the beverage lobby) and now I have serious concerns about whether it will work. But then Oregon is the old pro at this, and we're the rookies. Perhaps all these shortcomings would be resolved in time. They'd better, though. The whole success of a container deposit law lies in making redemption convenient.

[AbsolutChaos]

Thanks for the links Pzarquon! It's interesting that they want the recycled items in "pristine" condition! I have to remember NOT to crush the cans...I'm used to crushing them so I can get as many as possible into the garbage bag. :p


I've been a faithful recycler of cans, newspapers, etc for many years, but I have to admit that this new tax on recycling drink beverages, due to all the stipulations involved for getting your money back, is probably going to result in me recycling less. :(

[kimo55]

Now, if they will only institute a similar "tax" or deposit thing on those obnoxious cigarettes and the resultant butts we see everywhere.
Charge smokers extra for the apparent privilege, or "right" they asume they have to use our fragile aina for their own personal trash can. THEN, the homeless, or others, or those that are inclined, may realise a profit by collecting these butts and redeem them at 5 cents a pop.
I predict either/and/or;
Cleaner streets, parks, beaches.
Less instances of these jerks creating noxious fumes while they suck on their stinksticks in the car in front of you and then we see them flick their trash onto the roads.
(hey; ya wanna die early? Ainokeah! But don't pollute MY air and the land I am sharing here!)


C'mon; we have this fairly disproportionate quite ridiculous expenditure of tax dollars and police manpower in the direction of "clik it or ticket".
We need a similar;
"You Flik it and we Ticket!"

[pzarquon]

I've been a faithful recycler of cans, newspapers, etc for many years, but I have to admit that this new tax on recycling drink beverages, due to all the stipulations involved for getting your money back, is probably going to result in me recycling less.How is that? If you're recycling now without getting money back, why couldn't you continue recycling the same way next year? Are the current drop-off spots (i.e. RecycleHawaii containers scattered all over) going away? I wouldn't think so. At worst you'll be avoiding the hassle of an official redemption center and giving the state free money, but your stuff can still be recycled, right?

Plus, I liked how I could take my containers to the nearest store and get my refund quickly and easily.I saw those when visiting friends in Oregon, too. I wish those "reverse vending machines" were deployed here, but that's really the call of the supermarket or retailer... and most will not have to offer them (being within {x} miles of an official redemption center), and I imagine many won't want to offer them (given the basic logistics and traffic on their property from people who aren't customers). I know there are companies trying to sell those machines here, but I haven't heard of any major grocery chain signing up.

"You Flik it and we Ticket!" I like it. Seriously. Tax smokers into extinction, either through their own poor health or through economic neccessity. Charge an extra buck per cigarette, even, and refund it per non-biodegradable filter returned. Every cigarette on the beach, in parks, and anywhere else will vanish within days!

Well, folks will probably start stealing ash trays out of hotels and parking garages, actually... :)

[kimo55]

Well, folks will probably start stealing ash trays out of hotels and parking garages, actually... :)


hell. they will steal cigarettes.

[kimo55]

Sometimes I feel like just giving up.


Never give up. Not in anything in life. Hold strong your position but view the subject synoptically, allow your perspective to evolve and convey it maturely.

and fer gawd's sakes don't fall into this pattern;
"but that is the way I am and ah ain't ah gunna change..."
That is a sad sound and death knell to the intelligent, potentially thinking, expanding brain and mind we all possess.
You have just died. Now all you are waiting for is someone to come and bury you.

[admin]

Kimo, that line from Mel was buried in a long message posted way back in October, when this thread drifted into yet another liberal-conservative spat. Let's keep on topic this time.

Of course, if you still want to give sage advice to Mel, feel free to send him a Private Message. :)

[kimo55]

Of course, if you still want to give sage advice to Mel, feel free to send him a Private Message. :)


oh, well dat wuz what could be called universally applied philosophy.

[mel]

Never give up. Not in anything in life. Hold strong your position but view the subject synoptically, allow your perspective to evolve and convey it maturely.

and fer gawd's sakes don't fall into this pattern;
"but that is the way I am and ah ain't ah gunna change..."
That is a sad sound and death knell to the intelligent, potentially thinking, expanding brain and mind we all possess.
You have just died. Now all you are waiting for is someone to come and bury you.

As far as my conservative viewpoints go on this board, I am long ago dead and buried by all the liberals that populate this place. :(

[pzarquon]

...but, like the zombie in the horror movie that keeps coming back, apparently not dead enough to resist whipping out the broad brush once again. :p

Back on topic, looking at the state DOH's h5deposit.com list of redemption centers linked above, I wonder if that list is more current than the one on the city's opala.org (http://www.opala.org/BottleBill/Redemption_Centers.htm)? One thing I thought was neat were the photos of the "mobile redemption centers" on the city page. Actually, I think these trailer-mounted reverse vending machines will constitute many of the redemption centers on the list (as I know the one across from Star Market in Mililani is already just a trailer).

Also notable, the statement that "at least two local companies plan to use [reverse vending machines] as part of their recycling operations." Only two? And are these companies putting these machines out for the public to use, or keeping locked up for their own internal container programs?

[kimo55]

and do I heard this right?!

they tell us don't crush the cans!

what th...

[Keith H.]

and do I heard this right?!

they tell us don't crush the cans!

what th...

If it's going to based largely on reverse vending machines, then you don't want to crush the cans. Reverse vending machines scan the barcode on the can...if it's unreadable, it rejects it.

[kimo55]

If it's going to based largely on reverse vending machines, then you don't want to crush the cans. Reverse vending machines scan the barcode on the can...if it's unreadable, it rejects it.

far as I know no vending involved; it's all bulk recycling.
scanning would be labor intensive.

[Kalihiboy]

I never thought in a million years that I would pay for bottled water and never in a million years did I think I would be taxed on the bottle itself.

The tax on bottles would have been much better had it been for vices such as booze or a higher cigarette tax.

This is the first experiment, the state lottery system will be next, not sure if it will happen under the current Lingle administration though.

KalihiBoy

[AbsolutChaos]

How is that? If you're recycling now without getting money back, why couldn't you continue recycling the same way next year? Are the current drop-off spots (i.e. RecycleHawaii containers scattered all over) going away? I wouldn't think so. At worst you'll be avoiding the hassle of an official redemption center and giving the state free money, but your stuff can still be recycled, right? Exactly. I'm being financially punished for not recycling "their way," which I don't appreciate at all. I wish HI had a system like the one I knew in OH...you paid a small monthly fee, and for that fee they provided you with the recycling bin, into which you could place ALL recyclables, NOT just beverage containers, and you could crush the cans, and they would just pick it up with the regular trash. No beverage tax on selected items, no list of stipulations on how the specific beverage containers have to be maintained, no requirement for me to go to a specific place to wait in line to have each and every beverage container counted so I can recoup some of my financial punishment. I'm a big proponent of recycling, but I'm very disappointed at the way it's being done here. Recycling incentives should not only be financial, but they should be time-efficient and space-efficient and all-encompassing too.

[kimo55]

I never thought in a million years that I would pay for bottled water and never in a million years did I think...KalihiBoy


I never thought in a million years you would live so long!


hey.
I told you a thousand times! Don't exaggerate!

[adrian]

Did anyone turn in the beverage containers to the authorized places yet?

My group in the Law Enforcement Explorers Program collected just about all of the cans at the Mayor's Inauguration today, and came up with 6 bags of cans and bottles. We went to the Daiei Pearl City recycling place, and we got about $33 for it. If I remember right, we did the same thing (saved some cans from sodas we drank) at home and brought it to a place in Waipahu, and got $100 (or more)!

Am I missing something?

[kimo55]

Am I missing something?


hell, I don't think you missed a thing. ya earned 133 bux.
not bad!

[1stwahine]

Drink homemade iced tea or lemonade!

[adrian]

hell, I don't think you missed a thing. ya earned 133 bux.
not bad!
its $33, not $133. If we made that much money,then I'd go to the mayor's formal inaugural and collect cans there.

[mel]

Am I missing something?

The penny per container that the State took away as part of the tax that they keep no matter what. :(

[Konaguy]

Mel,
I heard the Republicans in the legislature want to modify the bottle bill and
give the responsibility to the counties. In the scenario the 1 cent the state
collects to manage the program would be dropped. Would you think differently
of the bottle bill if that happens ? To me the 1 cent portion is the real tax as you don't get that back. You can get your 5 cents back, so that part is not a tax as you claim.A tax is when you do not get your money back, try looking
at your W-2 and see how much taxes Uncle Sam takes out your paycheck.

[mel]

I heard the Republicans in the legislature want to modify the bottle bill and give the responsibility to the counties. In the scenario the 1 cent the state collects to manage the program would be dropped. Would you think differently of the bottle bill if that happens ?

No. That is only the House Republicans. Senator Slom is introducing a bill to get rid of the bottle bill and Rick Hamada at KHVH radio is rallying for support of the repeal bill.

The only solution to this tax is to get rid of it completely. There is no compromise in my book.

Of course this being a Democrat and liberal controlled legislature, the odds of the bill passing or even getting a hearing is rather slim.

Unless there is great public outcry against this like how it was for the traffic cams a few years ago.

Of course I suspect none of the liberal majority here will support and rally to support the repeal of this TAX. All I assume will happen is that I will be bashed again.

Thanks for prompting me to this post both here and by personal message. I think you got what you expected.

________________________________

Caution: You have entered a liberal inundation zone.

[Kalihiboy]

No. That is only the House Republicans. Senator Slom is introducing a bill to get rid of the bottle bill and Rick Hamada at KHVH radio is rallying for support of the repeal bill.

The only solution to this tax is to get rid of it completely. There is no compromise in my book.

Rarely do I agree with Mel, especially when it comes to taxes, but this bottle bill thing is ridiculous. It was not planned out very well at all. The stores where we buy these bottles from arent supporting it and why should they? How is the state to expect them to suddenly have all this money in their cash register to refund customers? And dont be surprised if people just simply walk into the store get their refund and walk out without purchasing anything. Its a no-win situation for the stores. Get rid of it.

The scant number of refund centers on this island are spread out so far it isnt funny. So the wait in line is long, some people have to wait in line a couple hours and find that there is no more money to be given out.

What a waste of time and money!!

All I see who is making out on this deal are the recycling plants.

This bill was first proposed when Cayetano was governor and I was hoping Lingle would get rid of it, shame on her for not dumping it.

KalihiBoy

[Glen Miyashiro]

I'm a supporter of the bottle bill and of recycling in general, but this redemption center business isn't working. :(

I had a little extra time today during work hours, so I tossed a bag of soda cans in my car and headed for the Isenberg Street redemption site. It was so full of people, there was nowhere for me to park. Undeterred, I took a little extra time and cruised to the Kalihi Shopping Center site. There was plenty of parking there, but all I found was a Reynolds Recycling shipping container sitting there, locked up tight. A custodian informed me that they were "closed today, come back tomorrow".

Sheesh. This is way too inconvenient for a regular working stiff like me. Never mind the deposit; I'm probably just going to drop my cans in the local elementary school's bin, like I always do.

Ted Rall said (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&ncid=742&e=8&u=/ucru/20050105/cm_ucru/whatsthematterwithmanhattan), "because I'm too lazy to wait in an extra line for the rebate at the grocery store, I pay an extra nickel per soda and give the cans to the homeless. Despite this additional cost, I support bottle deposit laws because I value the environment."

I agree with Ted.

[Konaguy]

The only solution to this tax is to get rid of it completely. There is no compromise in my book.


Mel,
How can it be a tax when you can redeem your cans at the redemption
for the 5 cents. What is a tax is that 1 cent that you do not get back.
If they allow the counties to manage the program and do away with the
1 cent tax on top of the 5 cents I don't see the problem.

[mel]

Mel,
How can it be a tax when you can redeem your cans at the redemption
for the 5 cents. What is a tax is that 1 cent that you do not get back.
If they allow the counties to manage the program and do away with the
1 cent tax on top of the 5 cents I don't see the problem.

The entire thing is a tax and a gross inconvenience for many people. The tax part of course comes if you don't return the damn container or just dump it in the city's blue recycling bin or down your apartment's trash chute, which is the easiest and cleanest solution for me.

However I have come up with a better solution for myself. As of September 29, 2004 I gave up drinking soda. So I don't buy any soda, juices, or water that comes in those gawd awful rip off containers... which means everything. I can live without it. And since I never touch a drop of alcoholic beverages, beer and other liquors never figured into my equation.

So simply the beverage and supermarket industry has lost me as a customer on just about 100% of this stuff. Bottled water is not that big of a deal for me in terms of "I gotta have it". I may need to buy a bottle on occasion just to replace the ones I am currently using and write the entire 6 cents off as a sunk cost. I hate it.

I don't like the fact that the state is forcing behavioral change through disencentives such as this TAX. It is a tax because the law mandates that it be charged to EVERYONE who buys a beverage whether they return the containers or not. I HATE IT and will always RESENT everyone, especially politicians in the legislature who voted this into law.

Sadly, you liberals have won on this.

Hawaii has had enough onerous, anti-business laws and taxes that continually drain the pocketbooks of everyone, especially the poor whom the liberal left Democrats who support measures like this profess to try to help. Baloney.

I don't expect most of you to understand this as you are all just blinded by the so called miniscule "environmental benefit" this brings. I am sure I am going to be flamed by the liberal lefters and environmentalists on this board once again. I tried to leave this topic behind Aaron, but you again prompted me to air my views. So here they are.

Take it or leave it.

________________________________

Caution: You are playing in a liberal inundation zone.

[Konaguy]

I know you wanted to avoid this thread. It is just interesting
to read your thoughts after the bottle bill has started. It hasn't
changed at all your views. But something has stuck out for me
in regards to this situation. If the county can assume the
program and you can easily get your 5 cents back......hmmmm

[mel]

I am very consistent and focused on my "no new taxes" principle.


________________________________

Caution: You are playing in a liberal inundation zone.

[pzarquon]

With the nonrefundable cent, this program is definitely a tax. But the question is, I guess, whether it's a "tax" if you could get all your money back... albeit with a bit of hassle. If it were purely the five cents, it makes sense for people to simply make the call themselves -- return the bottles, get back those nickles, or just toss 'em and accept the five cent fee as your penalty for being lazy.

A fully refundable bottle deposit - were we to get it, as proposed in the 'direct to counties' plan - might not technically be a "tax," but insofar as it would still create the same headaches and hassles for merchants and residents, it's certainly a "tax" on patience and effort, even if not easily quantifiable in dollar figures.

All that said, I accept it. I'd much rather my tax money go toward cleaner streets and beaches than brass plaques and vanity press projects, that's for sure. :p

By the way, an extensive story about the bottle recycling program (including comparisons to other states' programs) by Jeannette Lee went out over the Associated Press wire yesterday, and is being republished by dozens of newspapers and news sites (http://news.google.com/news?q=hawaii+lured+recycling&filter=0) across the country.

[Miulang]

At least the school kids in Hawai'i are aware that recycling can pay off.
Kahului School kids earned $10,000 for taking first prize in the large school category of the statewide contest. Baldwin High School won $5,000 for coming in second to Kahului School.

Since you have to pay the recycling fee anyway, if you don't want to put up with the current hassle of taking the empties to a local recycling station to get your money back, find out if your local school is having a fund drive where they are collecting and redeeming empties. At least that way, the kids can benefit, and so will Hawai'i's roadsides.

http://www.mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=5101

An interesting aside: the restaurants and bars in town are having issues with the new law, too. For one thing, they're not passing along the cost of the deposit to their customers, and they now have to post guards and secure the containers that hold the recyclables so thieves don't steal them. I think there's going to be a great underground economy in cashing in bottle deposits.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

The Honolulu Advertiser gave some perhaps overdue attention to the burden the "bottle bill" places on local small businesses today:

Bottle law a drain on business (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Jan/19/bz/bz02p.html)
Catherine E. Toth, Honolulu Advertiser, January 19, 2005
He's not complaining about the backlog at redemption centers or their inconvenient hours. It's about storing hundreds of cans and bottles — which can't be smashed or pulverized — at his two restaurants, paying the extra nickel for each bottle — which he doesn't want to pass onto his patrons — and worrying about people stealing his stash of now-valuable junk.

[Miulang]

Hopefully one of the akamai certified recycling outfits on Oahu will want to emulate Aloha Recycling on Maui, which is setting up free redemption accounts for local organizations so people can give the money from their bottle deposit to a nonprofit organization. There are also some tips at the bottom of this article which might make it a little less of a headache for people to recycle.

Miulang

http://www.mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=5102

[zztype]

I have an idea to even it up between the state and the consumer: How about we implement a system where all consumers PAY the 6¢ per bottle or can AT THE REDEMPTION CENTER?

When you go to the grocery store, the store issues you a little receipt stating how many canned or bottled items you purchased and how much you owe the state. Then the consumer is expected to go to the redemption center provided by the state, stand in line for 45 minutes, present the receipt and then pay the bottle deposit.

When the consumer wants the deposit back, they gather their empties and drive back to the redemption center and stand in line for 45 minutes, get a paper receipt, then stand in another line to collect their nickel.

How's that sound?

What? Won't work? Why not? If it's good for the goose, it must be good for the gander.

[Miulang]

Those of you who live near the UH campus can recycle bottles and cans on campus on Sundays and Mondays, according to the following item in the Star Bulletin this morning. It's only a pilot project, but at least some attempts are being made to try to accommodate the needs of some citizens.

Miulang

"Recycling available around UH campus
Students and people who live near the University of Hawaii at Manoa will be able to turn in cans and bottles for cash on campus on Sundays and Mondays starting today through March.
The pilot program will be reviewed after two months to determine whether it should be modified or extended.

The truck will be parked from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. on Sundays at the Music Department parking lot at Dole Street and University Avenue.

On Mondays, the truck will move around campus. From 11 a.m. to noon, it will be at Andrews Amphitheater. From 12:30 to 2:30 p.m. it will go to the Hale Aloha Lehua lower campus dorms. Then from 3 to 4 p.m. it will be at the Zone 6 parking lot adjacent to the Center for Korean Studies."

[mel]

Repeal Hawaii's Beverage Container Tax (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?6d2cd7eb-c3c3-4927-9ec1-af5d40bc043a)

If you support the repeal of the beverage container program and its onerous fee (6-cent hit per container and only 5 cents returned if you redeem your container), then call members of the Senate's Energy, Environment and International Affairs committee as well as members of the Commerce and Consumer Protection Committee to bring SB 892 up for a public hearing.

Senator Kalani English, chair EIA committee:
Phone 808-587-7225; fax 808-587-7230
From Maui, toll free 984-2400 + 77225
From Molokai and Lanai, toll free 1-800-468-4644 + 77225
E-mail senenglish@Capitol.hawaii.gov

Senator Ron Menor, chair CPH committee:
phone 808-586-6740, 623-7797; fax 808-586-6829
e-mail senmenor@Capitol.hawaii.gov

If you oppose the beverage container tax, ask these senators to place the repeal bill on their calendar for a public hearing.

More info:

SB 892 Bill Status (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/docs/getstatus2.asp?billno=SB892)

Text of SB 892 (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessioncurrent/bills/sb892_.htm)


Email all Senators: sens@capitol.hawaii.gov

Email all Representatives: reps@capitol.hawaii.gov


________________________________

Caution: This is a liberal inundation zone.

[Miulang]

The first results of the new recycling law (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/17/bz/bz04p.html) are in. Officials are disappointed by the low rate of redemption. Consumers are either tossing their cans and bottles in the trash or hoarding them.

Rather than lament about the low redemption rate, the State should be asking itself if removing 6 million cans from the 'opala heap is significant. And then they should still try to make it more convenient for customers to recycle their cans and bottles. Up here, we can either take the aluminum cans to a recycler and get paid by the pound for the aluminum, or we can put it in our recyclable trash to be hauled away (we don't get anything back if we do this). In fact up here, recycling is not an option; it's mandatory, and they can refuse to haul away your garbage if there is recycled material mixed in with the true garbage.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

A curbside recycling plan was in the works, but was sidelined by labor disputes (of course). I still have the blue bin in our garage. As far as the ease of recycling, I agree, and think that if and when the retailer-end of the current law comes into effect (meaning many stores far from "official" centers will have "reverse vending machines" out front), things might get better.

We have three 30-gallon garbage bags filled with rinsed, dried, capless beverage containers, and we live less than a mile from the Mililani redemption center. I don't blame that on the law, though, I blame that on my lazy butt!

[Glen Miyashiro]

Likewise with me. The collection points are inconvenient, but I'm still accumulating those cans and bottles.

[Konaguy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the legislature deferred any bills
that would've repealed the bottle bill ?

[mel]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the legislature deferred any bills that would've repealed the bottle bill ?

No. None of the bills that were for the purpose of completely repealing the beverage container tax law were even heard. Guess why? All the committee chairs are DEMOCRATS, they are liberal, they voted the damn law into place and won't dare think about repealing it. I am sure all you liberals here love this. No hope for repeal, so why complain? You won. You got what you want. Live with it.

(The repeal bills I know of were introduced by Republicans. Figure it out. It's all the rule of the majority party.)

[Waiting for liberal bricks to be hurled in my direction]

________________________________

Caution: This is a liberal inundation zone.

[pzarquon]

Didn't Lingle herself say she'd prefer an improved bill rather than a flat repeal? Or did the call for a repeal eventually become the unanimous desire of the minority party? Considering that the bill in question hasn't even been fully enacted, I thought that folks on both sides were still in a "wait-and-see" mode.

In the mean time, it certainly seems to be a moneymaker for the state (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/17/bz/bz04p.html). Anyone know if the fund is held or cycled through some kind of interest-bearing fund? Until my bags of bottles and cans can make it to the nearest center, I'd hope their value is doing some good.

Hey, if the money continues to pile up, maybe everyone'd go for a tax cut! Heh.

Anyway, depending on how big a mess it turns out to be once the retailer segment is in place, I can see legislators of both parties looking to gut or kill. A fickle public can change things in a hurry, as the "van cam" debacle taught us.
Waiting for liberal bricks to be hurled in my directionWhy bother, if the first brick is preemptively hurled for us? :p So helpful, you!

[zztype]

I still contend that we should PAY THE DEPOSIT at the SAME PLACE that we COLLECT THE REFUND!

My plan would work like this: At the grocery store, you buy a six-pack of your favorite libation. At the checkout, the clerk hands you a little printout "invoice" for the deposit due on the bottles or cans.

The consumer then drives to the DEPOSIT/REDEMPTION CENTER, hands the invoice to the clerk there and pays the deposit. (It might also be a convenient time to turn in your empties and collect your refunds!)

There, that's equitable!

No?!

Why not?

What? Nobody would drive to the redemption center to pay the deposit?

Oh.

Well, why in hell would they drive to the redemption center to turn in the empties, then?

:mad:

[Miulang]

Well, if it gets to the point that the bottles and cans you've been hoarding are crowding you out of your house or garage, you might give some thought to giving them to some school group (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/18/ln/ln12p.html) or civic association that is collecting them to raise money for a project.

That way, you'd be helping some kid earn enough money for a school trip, or a civic organization a piece of equipment, and you'd be clearing your house of the clutter! :)

Miulang

[EastCoastTropics]

When I first moved to this town we only had a redemption center. Now our grocery stores have redemption machines for plastic bottles and alum cans. These machines are usually located in the front of the grocery store. Customers put their bottles/cans in, then it gets shredded and the machines spits out a receipt so that the customer can get his refund at the register. The deposit is a nickel. Whatever isn't refunded to the customer goes back to the state of MA, and the store gets half a cent on every nickel.

Paper is also recycled....we have a little paper recycling bin and boxes and papers are broken down and put into the bin. The bin is left out on the curb every other week for curbside collection.

[zztype]

Lovena,

I would LOVE IT if Hawaii had similar redemption at the place of purchase system. But we don't, and that was the point of my post.

In Hawaii, the lovely legislators crafted a law where they collect 6 cents per container at the checkout. Then they promise to refund you 5 center per container at a couple of redemption centers. The centers are in out of the way industrial areas, and are only open from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. on weekdays.

There are long lines at the centers, with folks reporting 45 minutes to an hour in line to redeem a bag of cans. And when one reaches the front of the line with a large quantity of cans, you are allowed to redeem only a limited number before being sent to the back of the line.

The recycler then offers to take your cans at the bulk price of 5 cents PER POUND. (Before the law went into effect, they used to pay 25 cents per pound, or thereabouts.) If you forfeit the nickle-per-item deposit and go for the riduculously low bulk price, the recycler later claims your deposit, and is paid a couple of cents fromt he state, on top of that!!!

That's why our recycling law sucks. The house is rigged for the state to make millions of dollars while insuring that almost nothing gets recycled. Recent news reports stated that while something in the vicinity of $12 million in deposits have been collected by the state, only $300,000 had been paid out in redemptions. That sucks.

And it's only because the deck is stacked in favor of the state getting free money. They made it too much of a hassle to get your deposit back, so they just keep the money while your recyclables go into the landfill.

[Albert]

Well, my main returnable object would be one of those 40-ounce bottles which hold malt liquor, and no way am I lugging an empty one to anywhere to get five cents.

[EastCoastTropics]

Lovena,

I would LOVE IT if Hawaii had similar redemption at the place of purchase system. But we don't, and that was the point of my post.

That's why our recycling law sucks. The house is rigged for the state to make millions of dollars while insuring that almost nothing gets recycled. Recent news reports stated that while something in the vicinity of $12 million in deposits have been collected by the state, only $300,000 had been paid out in redemptions. That sucks.


zztype,

That's what I like about our redemption system. It's convienient and there is an incentive for the customer to recycle and an incentive for the stores that sell as well.

It's a win-win situation for all involved and we are helping to protect our enviroment and managing our solid waste.

Rarely do I puchase any drinks in recyclable containers but when I do I don't turn the bottles in. I don't care about the nickel but I do care about recycling. I give my empty plastic and alum items to neighbors or neighborhood kids who do go in and recycle.

Lovena,

That's why our recycling law sucks. The house is rigged for the state to make millions of dollars while insuring that almost nothing gets recycled. Recent news reports stated that while something in the vicinity of $12 million in deposits have been collected by the state, only $300,000 had been paid out in redemptions. That sucks.

And it's only because the deck is stacked in favor of the state getting free money. They made it too much of a hassle to get your deposit back, so they just keep the money while your recyclables go into the landfill.

I believe the key here is enviromental. I also believe that Hawaiian residents know the importance of protecting their enviroment and consumers should demand that Hawaii state law makers adopt a beverage container law that that will lead to an efficient solution to achieving solid waste management goals.

[Miulang]

Interesting followup (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/24/bz/bz01p.html) on the costs associated with the companies who are doing the recycling.

Washington State doesn't have a recycling law, but we don't have much of a problem with cans either, because when redeemed, we get somewhere around 26-28 cents/lb. Of course, recycling is mandatory in the City of Seattle anyway.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Just got back from Maui last night. There is a very enterprising owner of 2 gas stations in Kahului who, on his own, went out and bought 2 reverse redemption beverage recycling vending stations. They cost him $25k, but he said since his convenience stores at the stations sold soda and other canned beverages, he wanted to make it easier for his customers to recycle their canns and bottles. The customers can get cash back, or they can apply the refund to the price of their fill up.

I think that's a win-win situation, because the vending machines will be available 24x7, and will take both bottles and cans.

Paul Hanada, the owner of the gas stations, thinks if the Legislature would provide tax incentives for purchase of these machines, more businesses would also be willing to act as redemption centers.

Miulang

[EastCoastTropics]

Miulang, hope you had a good trip to Maui.

Kudos for Paul Hanada for taking the inititive! Would be good publicity if the local paper and tv news stations would come down and do a story of it, even taking a few photos of his customers using the recycling vending stations.

[pzarquon]

I saw a lot of coverage of that guy. And I definitely hope it spurs other merchants to make the investment. I mean, supermarkets already welcome "Coinstar" coin counting machines, which aren't even good deals - the customer loses 8 percent of their money - but they still spur people to spend that cash in the store where the machines are located.

[EastCoastTropics]

I hope so too pzarquon. And I also hope it spurs support from those politicians who feel that same way as well.

Is there a Recyclying org in Hawaii? If so, what's their stance on all of this? What are they doing to educate the public about this?

[pzarquon]

Officials fine-tune bottle law (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Mar/24/ln/ln01p.html)
Sean Hao, Honolulu Advertiser, Thursday, March 24, 2005
Officials are tweaking Hawai'i's new bottle law to encourage consumers to claim their 5-cent deposits... The state Department of Health said consumers now will receive 83 cents per pound of redeemable plastic containers, up from 60 cents, and 12 cents per pound for eligible glass containers, up from 10 cents... [and] lawmakers, looking for ways to boost participation, are close to reversing the rule that says you can't return crushed aluminum cans and plastic bottles.
We've finally made taking our bottles to the Mililani recycling center a weekly tradition, and my daughter loves the regular excursion (as she gets to keep the cash - it's part of her allowance!). But yes, this just has to be made easier.

Recycling at the point-of-sale (reverse vending machines at supermarkets) is really what I think would turn the tide. Since the state is seriously underpaying out of the bottle bill fund ($600,000 out of $7 million collected), they should grab a couple million and just buy reverse vending machines for retailers and subsidize them to ultimately cost just pennies on the dollar.

[Glen Miyashiro]

I had some spare time last week so I took a carload of cans and bottles to my nearest neighborhood redemption center (http://www.hawaii.gov/health/environmental/waste/sw/hi5/redcenters.html). Let's just say that there are a few kinks still to be worked out with the process.

At center #1, the big Matson container sitting in the parking lot was locked and unattended, although a half dozen tired-looking men were sitting around on curbs waiting for somebody to open up and redeem their cans. I didn't feel like waiting, so I went to the next place on the list.

Center #2 was open and running, and people were there. But when the bored young woman running the place told me that not only did I have to separate my aluminum from my plastic, but that I had to separate the different colors of my glass bottles, I gave up there too.

Center #3 was an industrial-scale metals recycling place in Kalihi, and the sight of workers in steel-toed shoes and safety goggles warmed my heart. Now these guys would know what to do! Sure enough, they were polite to this out-of-place townie, and even though I still had to separate my plastics from my metals, they didn't make me sort my glass by color. The guy I talked to even brought over some empty bins for me to sort into. What service! I even was able to unload my non-HI-5 glass jars and plastic milk jugs, although they wouldn't give me money for them. I walked away with about $15 in my pocket, all in all not too bad.

Now that I know, I'll remember to keep separate bags of aluminum cans and plastic bottles. And next time I'm going straight to #3 -- the service at the first two places really sucked.

[pzarquon]

Bottle returns surge after 2 slow months (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Apr/06/bz/bz04p.html)
Sean Hao, Honolulu Advertiser, April 6, 2005
The state paid back $1.59 million in March to consumers who returned bottles for the 5-cent deposit per container. In each of the previous two months the state paid out only about $300,000. The state collects about $2.5 million per month in deposits... Even with the improvement in March redemptions, the state has paid back only about 10 percent of the deposits it has collected so far. The state has also raised $4.4 million through Feb. 28 via the 1-cent fee for administrative costs associated with running the program.

[Miulang]

What's laughable is Mufi is now worried that the new island-wide curbside recycling program that's about to be launched on Oahu will get swamped by the thousands of cans and bottles that people have been saving up to redeem and either haven't had the time or gotten disgusted with the current rules and recycle center hours.

I think if people don't want their money back from their deposits, then Mufi should hire a bunch of people to pull those recyclable cans and bottles out and sell them back on behalf of the City. Maybe then part of the expense of pothole repairs could be covered by a recycling fund rather than out of the City's general fund.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

I think if people don't want their money back from their deposits, then Mufi should hire a bunch of people to pull those recyclable cans and bottles out and sell them back on behalf of the City. Maybe then part of the expense of pothole repairs could be covered by a recycling fund rather than out of the City's general fund.Wouldn't that be something? It'd burn through the ridiculous surplus the state has accumulated to date, and serve the common good. I can just hear the phone call from the recycling center, though. "Uh, boss? There's a line of container trucks here, reporting seven hundred and thirty six tons of bottles... At 83 cents a pound, that's, what, $1,221,760? I think I'm going to need a bit more cash."

[craigwatanabe]

Talk about a rip off, yesterday I went to the Food Court at the Prince Kuhio Mall in Hilo and bought a 20oz bottle of Coke at one of the food vendors for $1.97 They said the price hike is due to the bottle bill. I should have returned the empty bottle and asked for my deposit back the way the bottle deposits worked back a few decades ago, let the vendors deal with the bottle bill.

[Glen Miyashiro]

That's like how when the gas stations post their prices at the pump they make sure to tell you how much of their price is due to federal, state, and local taxes. Hey, I don't care about that, I just want to fill my tank. :p

[craigwatanabe]

yeah but you don't want to drain your wallet at the same time! $2 for a Coke amazing!

[pzarquon]

Recycling site closing unless state pays bill (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Apr/12/bz/bz04p.html)
Island Recycling Inc. said it is owed $250,000 by the state for containers redeemed between January and mid-March and will stop accepting bottles and cans at its redemption center in Kalihi tomorrow if it isn't reimbursed before then. Atlas Recycling on the Big Island closed six satellite redemption centers last week after the state fell behind in reimbursing the nickel-per-container refunds.

[Miulang]

Good news for all you Oahu residents who have been storing up all those cans and bottles, thinking "someday" you'd be able to get your money back. As of the beginning of May, 3 of the 4 Foodland (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Apr/15/bz/bz03p.html) supermarkets on Oahu will start accepting recycled cans and bottles for instore credit (meaning, you won't get any cash back, but can buy food at Foodland with your rebates).

I think once Foodland starts, other grocery stores will also want to jump on the bandwagon for fear of losing patrons.

Miulang

[Keith H.]

Good news for all you Oahu residents who have been storing up all those cans and bottles, thinking "someday" you'd be able to get your money back. As of the beginning of May, 3 of the 4 Foodland (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Apr/15/bz/bz03p.html) supermarkets on Oahu will start accepting recycled cans and bottles for instore credit (meaning, you won't get any cash back, but can buy food at Foodland with your rebates).

I think once Foodland starts, other grocery stores will also want to jump on the bandwagon for fear of losing patrons.

Miulang

Well, hey, it's a start. Time to dust off that Maika'i card. (There are way more than 4 Foodlands on Oahu, BTW.)

[pzarquon]

It is a start. Good for them. I wonder if the 'mobile' redemption center is the one the recycling company was showing off on TV: not just a trailer, but a rack of "reverse vending machines" that takes bottles one at a time and scans codes? If so, this might be a good test for Foodland to determine if they want to invest in permanent "reverse vending machine" installs at their stores. I'll make a point to use the service if it'll encourage more moves like this.

[EastCoastTropics]

Awesome!!!

[DaveNSoKona]

First of all let me say that I have seen the bumper sticker that says "We don't care how you did it on the mainland".

That said, before I moved here from Oregon we would pull up to selected grocery stores and feed our cans and bottles into a machine out front or on the side of the building and the machine would spit out a slip of paper that was redeemed in the store for merchandise or money. I don't know who owned those machines or how they were paid for. Every grocery store had some sort of redemption center.

The last time I was at the transfer station at Wai`ohinu (on a weekday) there was a pile of cans and bottles as high as a house. They only man the redemption center there on weekends. So I guess people in Kau don't rally need the refund.

When they were proposing the Hawaii bottle bill, with a baffling proposal to collect more than the return value, I emailed my representative and pointed out that with a 10 cent bottle deposit, any equipment or infrastructure needed could be paid for (or at least a down payment) with the "float". The float being, all those bottles sitting in peoples pantries waiting to be returned. Well I guess they didn't like that idea.

Anyway, I think Hawaii merchants that sell pop here are big babies. If it cost you more to hire more employees to deal with it, then charge more and pass it on to you customers. If you don't want to deal with the bottles just stop selling things that come in cans and bottles. Simple.

[Keith H.]

It is a start. Good for them. I wonder if the 'mobile' redemption center is the one the recycling company was showing off on TV: not just a trailer, but a rack of "reverse vending machines" that takes bottles one at a time and scans codes? If so, this might be a good test for Foodland to determine if they want to invest in permanent "reverse vending machine" installs at their stores. I'll make a point to use the service if it'll encourage more moves like this.

It looks like Foodland outsourced to that company. But really, eventually we should be moving in the direction of permanent reverse vending machine installs. And whoever said that the store's employees have to regularly maintain them? They could be outsourced (the company that puts 'em there regularly comes by to empty and maintain them...less employee-hours spent).

[DaveNSoKona]

I thought this might give some pro-retail, anti-recycling advocates some perspective from a retailer faced with the bottle bill in another state.

reposted from Konaweb:

"We gave up already on taking the cans in. Takes way to much time for the amount of money we receive back. I read in the paper awhile back that the Kona Humane Society was collecting cans to build a pet friendly pen area for people to get to know a pet before adopting. We thought that this was a fantastic idea for the humane society to do and a great way for them to receive donations. I think the stores should provide the drop off for cans. When Oregon started their bottle bill we as grocery store owners had to provide a place in our store for the sorted cans and bottles until each distributor came and picked them up. Coke, pepsi, Bud etc. They deliver the goods, they should pick up. We should not have to drive all those miles to a redemption center to stand around for 2 hours to get our money when the distributor makes these rounds. It just makes more traffic on our over crowded roads, besides the price of gas. I know we have really cut back on our purchase of anything with a HI5 sticker on it. If the distributor saw that their product was not selling as well anymore since the bottle bill, and the state was not receiveing all that extra money maybe the state would rethink the law. In Oregon we never got an extra cent to count and collect these cans and bottles. It was just part of doing bussiness. Granted it was forced upon us but in the end it was the best. It was the distributor who paid us the day he delivered. No waiting for months to get a check from the state.

Janice"

[pzarquon]

Hmm. Island Recycling, the same company that raised the red flag over the state's non-payment of bottle recycling refunds (see above), has meanwhile been fired by the city (http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/4409392/detail.html) from operating the long-stalled curbside recycling project.

Just as well. We're using the bright blue curbside bins they delivered with such promise a year ago as a staging area for our household's bottle recycling efforts anyway.

I think my daughter's made $100 bucks so far counting bottles for us. That's a lot of Barbie dolls. :D

[poi cocktail :)]

my little piles of redeemables hardly hoarding (only got $4.33 last time :p ) but "saving". loaded up the bags and went to halawa and there was no line. had plenty rejected bottles too so that reduced the refund. it was interesting process but I think in the future will just donate them instead.

all containers clean and rinsed now. last time I thought was like mainland where they just toss on a scale (this was at the dumps) not feed one by one! homeowners there have 3 mandated garbage cans curbside even, one for trash, blue one for recycles, green one for organic. nobody use the green ones really. but I think the trashcans are from the recycled bottles! LOL

[EastCoastTropics]

First of all let me say that I have seen the bumper sticker that says "We don't care how you did it on the mainland".

That said, before I moved here from Oregon we would pull up to selected grocery stores and feed our cans and bottles into a machine out front or on the side of the building and the machine would spit out a slip of paper that was redeemed in the store for merchandise or money.

That's how we do it up here in MA! The grocery stores where I shop (Market Basket, Shaw's and Super Stop & Shop) have one each redemp machine for glass, alum and plastic! The deposit is a nickel. Whatever isn't refunded to the customer goes back to the state of MA, and the store gets half a cent on every nickel.

Advertiser article
Redemption bill passed to allow crushing of cans
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/May/04/bz/bz02p.html

[craigwatanabe]

when kid time I used to just pop the top, drink the soda and give the empty back to the cashier for my nickle. So simple a little kid could understand it.

[poi cocktail :)]

chocolate sodas! :)

[cola]

Have you guys seen many RVMs beeing placed at Hawaii lately? Do you think the number of these machines will increase with the new legislation which involves tax refunds?

[mel]

Have you guys seen many RVMs beeing placed at Hawaii lately? Do you think the number of these machines will increase with the new legislation which involves tax refunds?

Tax refund legislation? There weren't any. With the bottle bill tax in place, the legislature this year only increased taxes... GE TAX, Conveyance tax... county is raising property taxes, vehicle weight taxes....

Can you say "Hawaii is a Tax Hell?"

http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/notax-s.gif

[cola]

"Improves the controversial state bottle bill calling for reverse vending machine rebates and increasing redemption center incentives"

Reported by Starbulletin.

[Miulang]

Those RVMs are working great in Kahului at the 2 gas stations that have them. And the owner put those in as a public service to his customers without any State subsidy (each machine costs about $25k). And Foodland is bringing those to Maui (Pukalani and Kihei) once a week.

I also understand the State Legislature has decided it's OK to crush the cans now so they'll take up less space as you save them up.

Miulang

[mel]

"Improves the controversial state bottle bill calling for reverse vending machine rebates and increasing redemption center incentives"

Reported by Starbulletin.


What is the bill number? What issue of SB? URL? :confused:

[cola]

http://starbulletin.com/2005/05/05/news/story4.html

SB 212

How many RVMs are there at the redemption centers? Who has manufacutred them?

[Miulang]

If this pilot project works, you might see reverse vending machines (http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/13/news/index10.html) at a lot of County-owned locations. And it will cost the county about $25k/machine. These machines are certainly more convenient than having to save up enough cans to make a trip to the redemption centers worthwhile.

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

I'm just glad they're accepting crushed cans now. I've got a bunch of old ones left over from last year that I never got around to turning in -- now I can get a better price on them. :D

[cola]

Anybody seen new reverse vending machines installed lately?

[Pretender]

They just recently installed a set in the State Capitol basement loading dock, just east of the main basement entrance.

I really wish Mufi would stop making excuses and get the curbside recycling project underway. It just make so much sense for you to have one process to be able to recycle a whole bunch of different items like: all types of beverage containers (not only HI-5 containers); newspaper; corrugated cardboard; telephone books, etc. But as it is now, we have a process, tax and incentive for HI-5 containers, and a process for other recyclables. Why is the more complicated solution a better one? Keeping it simple seems like a good idea, and dumping all my stuff in one blue bin and rolling it out to the curb seems like a simple concept to me.

My 2 cents (well actually 6 cents, but only 5 are refundable).

[Lei Liko]

Has anyone been ripped off by a recycling center?

Mom and stepdad went to the Pearl City recycling center with about 750 cans and water bottles in tow. After weighing the items, you know how much they got back?

Doing the math, it'd be about $37.50, right?

Those idiots told my parents they only made $5.00!

Now, until today I thought that you'd get 5 cents for each acceptable container.

According to this Consumer Info PDF (http://hi5deposit.com/consumers.html), apparently the started weighing the containers last year (for consumers with over 50 containers). Still, 1 pound = about 16.6 plastics/30 aluminums. Granted, it may be a penny or two off depending on the size of your container, but still...it should all add up.

My parents aren't the type to make trouble, but they called me as this was happening. I printed copies of the consumer information and took it over to them and demanded to know why they weren't getting their money. The stupid idiots wouldn't give me a reason despite the info I gave them. They even threatened to call the cops on me. I gladly accepted that threat but in the end, they didn't.

They still wouldn't fork over what my parents should have got. No receipt, nuttin.

And when asked what their names were so that my mom can call the DOH tomorrow to complain, they wouldn't give that to us either. I'm still so pissed off like you can't believe.

I get the feeling that my parents won't ever get to see the rest of the $$$ and we all learned our lesson from this. I think next time around we're going to an RVM. Or I hope they get a water tank thing installed at the house.

[manoasurfer123]

Has anyone been ripped off by a recycling center?

Mom and stepdad went to the Pearl City recycling center with about 750 cans and water bottles in tow. After weighing the items, you know how much they got back?

Doing the math, it'd be about $37.50, right?

Those idiots told my parents they only made $5.00!

Now, until today I thought that you'd get 5 cents for each acceptable container.

According to this Consumer Info PDF (http://hi5deposit.com/consumers.html), apparently the started weighing the containers last year (for consumers with over 50 containers). Still, 1 pound = about 16.6 plastics/30 aluminums. Granted, it may be a penny or two off depending on the size of your container, but still...it should all add up.

My parents aren't the type to make trouble, but they called me as this was happening. I printed copies of the consumer information and took it over to them and demanded to know why they weren't getting their money. The stupid idiots wouldn't give me a reason despite the info I gave them. They even threatened to call the cops on me. I gladly accepted that threat but in the end, they didn't.

They still wouldn't fork over what my parents should have got. No receipt, nuttin.

And when asked what their names were so that my mom can call the DOH tomorrow to complain, they wouldn't give that to us either. I'm still so pissed off like you can't believe.

I get the feeling that my parents won't ever get to see the rest of the $$$ and we all learned our lesson from this. I think next time around we're going to an RVM. Or I hope they get a water tank thing installed at the house.
It's experiences like this and the long line I faced the one time I did try and turn in my recyclables that led me to the determination... recycling is worth it... for the earth...but not worth my time....

I still to this day throw my recyclables to the people that live in the park next to my place. Keeps them from pawing through my garbage and I feel at least like their still getting recycled.

Yeah...it irks me that it's not easier to recycle.... I'm a firm believer of get rid of the way they are doing it now... and just implement a curbside pick up... ! This way I don't look so stupid throwing my empties out into the park and having to explain why I'm doing it sometimes!

[anapuni808]

Since I can't bear to throw away a soda can or plastic bottle - I've had someone from the Sierra Club pick up bags & take to a Charter School that had a recycling program going. Now, I just bag them & a neighbor from across the street comes over to get them when I get a full bag. He donates to a youth organization. No hassle for me & now I don't even have to call him - he just checks outside my apt. door & when he sees the bag, comes over to pick it up. It's like magic :D

[Jewlipino]

The original bill would have required supermarkets and such to receive the container trash.... but at the last moment the bill was modified to remove that requirement that said something along the lines of "if within X distance from a recycling center/reverse vending machine..." Come to think of it I should look up the darn statute. Anyway the point is the law has to be fixed to require vendors to receive container trash. We make people who sell car batteries take batteries back, and there are other examples of vendors being required to take back the waste products of the goods they sell. Make the supermarkets take responsibility for the container trash they help to generate!

Jewlipino