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  • Substitute teachers get pay cut

    It's kinda sad when the BOE announces that it will cut substitute teachers' pay by 7%. According to the story below, approximately 1/4 of all regular teachers in the State system can be out on any given day, and about 1,000 of 3,000 available substitute teachers are called on to teach.

    The article further states that the pay for a substitute teacher should be the same as an entry-level full time teacher with a 4 year degree, but here's the clincher: Just as the BOE announces the 7% pay cut for the substitutes, it makes no mention of a similar cut to the entry level full time teacher pay, nor did it provide any reason why the pay cut was ordered.

    Could it also be a slap at the substitute teachers by the HSTA, since the substitute teachers are not part of that union? Just really curious it should happen now and be effective on Nov. 1.


    More here: http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../br/br06p.html

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  • #2
    Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

    Sounds like they're putting it off, but not backing down:

    DOE delays cutting pay for substitute teachers
    The Department of Education is backing off temporarily from plans to cut the pay of substitute teachers, a move that had triggered an outcry from many substitutes who already feel they are underpaid. Superintendent Patricia Hamamoto announced yesterday that substitutes will continue to receive the current $119.80 per day rate until Jan. 24, when it will drop to $112.53. The department had told substitutes earlier this month that the rate would fall to $111.41 on Nov. 1.

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    • #3
      Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

      The substitute teachers are still not going to get parity with the entry level full time teachers, even though the State and the DOE now say the pay cut will only be 6% instead of 7%.

      I think it's time for the substitute teachers to organize. I generally am not in favor of labor unions, but when there's discrimination like this, I think they should go for it.

      Miulang
      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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      • #4
        Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

        I have mixed feelings on this one but I have to side with the DOE on this one.

        My wife had to endure a very long time to get "certified" to teach in a DOE school system. That meant enduring lots of night school at UH and Chaminade and giving up her daytime part time job as a pre school teacher so she can do her lab work. That was a huge sacrifice on this mother of six and wife to a pathetically lazy husband (me). She spent hours late at night to pass tests and write essays to get certified and eventually graduate.

        My sister in law simply applied to be a substitute teacher with absolutely no teaching credentials nor experience in what she was to teach as a sub. And she was going to get parity to my wife after all that educational torture she had to endure? Where's the logic in that? That a sub can earn the same pay as a four-year degree certified teacher? Subs aren't certified in classroom management nor are they certified in classroom conflict resolution or setting up DOE sanctioned curriculum. My sister in law was just a housewife.

        I'm sorry but after seeing what my wife had to go thru just to get certified and to see someone with no credentials or certifications get equal pay astounds me. DOE teachers went on the line (the picket line) to demand better pay.

        Yes substitute teachers should organize but by doing so their collective bargaining contract will spell in black and white what they must possess in the area of certifications (just like full time DOE teachers) before they can set foot in a DOE sanctioned classroom. And that's what they don't want because right now they don't have to prove their qualifications like their full-time counterparts must do.

        My wife had to jump thru a lot of hoops to get to where she is and she did it with honors. It's a slap in her face and others who made that sacrifice to get certified while others didn't have to for the same pay.
        Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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        • #5
          Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

          Originally posted by craigwatanabe
          Yes substitute teachers should organize but by doing so their collective bargaining contract will spell in black and white what they must possess in the area of certifications (just like full time DOE teachers) before they can set foot in a DOE sanctioned classroom. And that's what they don't want because right now they don't have to prove their qualifications like their full-time counterparts must do.
          The parity should be with full time teachers who haven't been certified and the substitute teachers. I don't know what the breakdown is within the levels of the substitute teachers, but maybe some of the substitutes have PhDs and masters' degrees, too and are certified to teach full time. I think a lot of the substitute teachers choose to do this because of other life circumstances (motherhood, etc) rather than a fear of not meeting qualifications. I see no reason why they shouldn't have the same certification requirements as the full time teachers if they expect to be paid parity. And no one goes into the public school system to be a teacher to get rich!

          Miulang
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

            Originally posted by Miulang
            The parity should be with full time teachers who haven't been certified and the substitute teachers. I don't know what the breakdown is within the levels of the substitute teachers, but maybe some of the substitutes have PhDs and masters' degrees, too and are certified to teach full time. I think a lot of the substitute teachers choose to do this because of other life circumstances (motherhood, etc) rather than a fear of not meeting qualifications. I see no reason why they shouldn't have the same certification requirements as the full time teachers if they expect to be paid parity. And no one goes into the public school system to be a teacher to get rich!

            Miulang
            There I agree. Parity is essential for when it's due. And it may not to be rich (to be a sub) but for my sister in law, it was a way to earn extra income when the last child went to kindergarden. She didn't need the money.
            Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

              The judge hearing the suit filed on behalf of the state's substitute teachers ruled yesterday that the $7/day cut in pay mandated by state law would not substantively hurt the teachers. But the teachers are planning to appeal the decision.

              For many, I think it's not the pay cut itself, but the principle that allows the state to get away with paying teachers who are at the beck and call of the schools less the salary of a beginning full time teacher that is irksome. And the only people who will truly suffer ultimately are the kids.

              Miulang

              http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../ln/ln11p.html
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

                Originally posted by Miulang
                The parity should be with full time teachers who haven't been certified and the substitute teachers.

                With all due respect, I must disagree. I am a full-time teacher, and when I have to call for a sub, I still do lesson plans. TEACHING a well-conceived, well-honed, effective lesson and DESCRIBING it for someone else to execute are two different things--the describing takes much, much more work! I can go into my own classroom and execute certain lessons without even thinking about them. I can take nothing for granted when I have to count on a sub.

                Subs do an important job and should be compensated for it, but there's no way they deserve pay equal to the salaries of full-time, non-certified teachers.

                And that's just the teaching stuff. Subs don't go to faculty meetings, subs don't advise clubs, or stay late so the juniors can get their homecoming floats ready to go by game day. Subs don't reach into their own pockets in order to pay for stuff that makes the learning experience better for the students. Additionally, qualifying to be a sub is a piece of cake--I know, because I went through it. Being hired to be a full-time member of a faculty is a completely different animal and is not nearly as easy, certification or no.

                Rather than letting substitute teachers organize, what schools need is the freedom to pay top-tier subs differently from lower-tier subs. Rather than pay all subs the same amount, schools should reward those subs who consistently do good work--and not just with more work, because as you say, the demand is outstripping the supply. To a full-time teacher, there are few things more precious than a good substitute who follows the lesson plans. And you'd be amazed at how many subs can't even follow a dang lesson plan.
                But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                GrouchyTeacher.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

                  100+ per day!!!??? Here in OK, its only 40 bucks! Course, this stupid state is second lowest in the nation for teacher pay tho too.........I just started subbing and dont sneeze at 40 but sure wouldnt mind the 100+ tho!
                  If anyone on Oahu is NOT happy , feel free to trade places with me.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

                    I'm not feeling well and have already called in sick for tomorrow. Rather than crawl between the sheets and hibernate, which is what I dearly want and need, I have to work on lesson plans, and then I have to go to school and arrange my classroom and leave the plans somewhere the sub won't get them mixed up with something else. When substitute teachers are sick, all they have to do is not answer their telephones. When a full-time teacher is sick, he or she has to do more work than usual the night before.

                    Ask any teacher how often he or she goes in on mornings when he or she shouldn't, and then ask the reason. Most of the time, your answer will be that it's just too much work to call in sick.

                    Subs want to make a per-diem that's equivalent to what full-time teachers make? Preposterous. You know what they should ask for? A per-HOUR equivalent. I'm sure the state would LOVE that because it would save a ton of money. Subs make far more per hour than I do.
                    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                    GrouchyTeacher.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

                      As a former public school substitute teacher here on Oahu, I gotta say that if you work for the DOE, be ready for anything. One of the main reasons I am no longer a sub is that I believe it was 2 or 3 years ago, they required that ALL subs get recertified by taking night classes/training. We already went through this the first time we got certified. It's like a 20-hour deal, at night, and we had to pay a good amount of money for this training just like the first time.

                      Also, I don't know what happened to that lawsuit that was filed on behalf of the subs a few years ago also. The judge ruled in our favor, and I was told I would be receiving back pay. (If memory serves me correctly, I think the ruling said something about if full-time teachers receive a raise, then subs would get one also.) I haven't received a red cent, and I believe I'm entitled to thousands of dollars in back pay.

                      With regard to full-time teachers deserving more than subs--I agree wholeheartedly. Just like many have said, it takes way more effort to become certified as a full-time teacher, and they work WAAAY harder than subs. Subs just come in and follow the lesson plans of the regular teacher. They don't have to make any lesson plans, don't have any homework, don't attend any meetings, etc.

                      Does anyone know what happened to the lawsuit, though? It's been so long that I just kinda gave up on it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Substitute teachers get pay cut

                        Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                        Subs want to make a per-diem that's equivalent to what full-time teachers make? Preposterous. You know what they should ask for? A per-HOUR equivalent. I'm sure the state would LOVE that because it would save a ton of money. Subs make far more per hour than I do.
                        Scrivener - Doesn't your school have a whole different pool of substitutes to choose from then DOE's?

                        I thought Private schools and Public Schools had two completely different set of subs to choose from.

                        Can't private schools pay there subs whatever they feel like?

                        I do like that per hour equivalence though!

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