attempting to build a computer with no knowledge base...help!

[craigwatanabe]

Okay you computer techies out there. I've finally decided to attempt to build my own computer. Actually it's for my 15-year old boy who also wants to learn how. We've decided to start with a very modest investment (about $350 for a barebones system/HD/Memory/Processor) with plans to upgrade the processor and video.

The goal is to make an easy computer to understand what we're doing. If we fail miserably well it's only $350 down the drain and lots of spare parts to use for our next project, buying one ready made.

Okay I bought the parts and am waiting for FedEx to deliver them to me. Here's what I bought and all from NewEgg.com:

Intel Celeron 2.26 GH with 256 L2 cache
Roswill DDR400 (PC3200) 184-pin 256Mb x 2 ram
Maxtor ATA133 7200rpm 40GB hard drive
SOYO Barebone System for Socket 478 at 400/533/800 FSB Intel CPU, Model SY-A45A0 (this includes a SOYO Mid tower ATX case and power supply)

The barebones is a special going on right now at
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=56-157-001&depa=0

It includes the Mid-tower design case in black and silver, an ATX Motherboard socket 478 and 350-watt power supply. The price after $40 rebate for this barebones system is $50.00 Yeah no joke!

Now I don't think this project is going to be as easy as it seems so I may be on this message board asking for a lot of advice when everything comes in and nothing boots up.

As for optical and floppy drives, I got three burned out computers to cannibalize from all P3's.

Right now if we can get this project to fire up then we'll drop in another couple of hundred for a Radeon graphics card and another few hundred for a P4 with HT since the motherboard with the barebones system can accomodate a P4 with HT and a FSB of up to 800. Now all this jargon I just learned from painfully reading PC Modder and PC Builder magazine and trying to understand what the hell they were writing. I finally figured what Hyper Threading was and Front Side Bus but when it comes to configuring the BIOS, I think I'll be prepared to load a gun and shoot myself if I can't figure that part out.

Is building a computer like this fairly easy? I really want to understand how to build this thing because my closet is filling up with desktops that won't boot up and I want to fix all of them and donate some to some of the neighborhood kids who's families are too poor to buy one themselves.

Thanks for any help. :)

[Konaguy]

It should be fairly easy :) . Just remember before you power
the computer up, you have everything connected properly. I fried
my last computer by not letting the static discharge.

[j3rr3y]

Putting together a computer is easy IF you have all the right parts. Its sorta like putting legos together lol. BTW, the barebones you showed there has NO CPU or memory included... you do know that yeah? If you run into problems while putting it together, just post here, I should be able to help you out

my main job is to put together computers for the army ;)

[craigwatanabe]

you know all the PC Modder fans are bent on maximum cooling so....I was thinking...I'm building this computer for my teenage boy with room for gaming upgrades. The mobo (motherboard) can accomodate a P4 with HT. It can also accomodate processors with a FSB of 800MHz and DDR400 memory of up to 2Gb.

All that tech jargon aside, cooling seems to be the "cool" mod to do to your case/processor with fans and water cooling, even dry ice!

Now I have this spare 12vdc auxillary cooling fan I bought but didn't need for my BMW. This sucker pushes in some major CFM, enough to cool a decent automobile engine in bumper to bumper 90-degree weather. I'm thinking of cutting a major hole in one of the access panels (as a joke) in this SOYO steel case and mounting this fan in it (14-inch diameter). The noise will be unbearable but when it comes to cooling, it'll be the envy of all the gamers at my boy's next LAN party when he turns on that thing.

Maybe I should mount an automobile oil-cooler and run it as a water cooler for the CPU. Can you imagine that small radiator device bolted on the side of his gaming computer?

I'm learning a lot from building my kid's computer for the first time. I did buy a cheapo Celeron-D processor at 2.26 MHz with a 256Kb L2 cache and running at 533 for the mobo's FSB. I also purchased some memory, DDR400 (PC3200) 512Mb ram and an ATI Radeon 9200SE graphics card because this mobo doesn't include video. I also purchased a 40-Gb ATA/133 hard drive as opposed to a SATA because of cost (the HD cost me $40).

Eventually my kid wants to upgrade the processor to the mobo's max: P4 3.4GHz w/HT and 1Gb onboard cache at 800FSB, 2Gb of ram and a 128bit graphics card (the one I bought for him is only a 64-bit but it should suffice for now with the Celeron processor)

But I will probably be searching for help once I'm ready to do the initial boot up and configure the BIOS which should be sometime early November when the graphics card arrives (it's backordered). Thanks for the help!

[j3rr3y]

Yeah... it certainly would be impressive, however, the noise would be as you said unbearable, making it completely impractical, IMO. The celeron Processor is not a high performance cpu, and doesnt generate too much heat. However, if you wanted to do some extreme cooling for the purpose of looks... I would recommend cutting a window out of the side panel, and ordering a good water cooling kit, with clear water tubes. You can then get some UV Sensitive dye, put it in the coolant, slap some UV CCFL lights, and you have a glowing water cooling system. This generally gets good results for a simple mod.
Good choice on the graphics card btw... ATI is definately the best in most price ranges.

My current system:

AMD Athlon 64 (bit) 3400+
ATI Radeon x800 Pro
2GB Geil Dual Channel PC3200 C2.0
ASUS K8N-E Deluxe Motherboard
Samsung 160GB SATA x2 HDD
--\
Its currently in the process of being painted by my friend who does auto body stuff. I will post some pics when its done being modded. It should be pretty cool.

[craigwatanabe]

I wanted to go Athlon (for the pricing) but I've been a bit leary about AMD regarding SP2 and just the compatibility issues with applications.

I'm slowly learning the different name brands and ATI was recommended to me. What's the purpose of dual channel memory? As for the CPU, if this build is successful (with the help from you folks out there), I'm planning on another build when my boy decides to upgrade to a P4. I'll take the Celeron and build myself a decent host computer for my network (that I'm also learning to understand).

I eventually want to build a computer that will handle all of my multi-media home theater stuff and network it to all computers in the household wirelessly. It's ambitious but I'm taking classes on networking and it seems like a decent project to keep my retired ass busy.

I'm learning a lot from those PC magazines and hopefully from this message board thread. Suddenly desktop computers are gaining my attention again. Should be fun!

Thanks for your input and help, I'll be hitting you again for more info as I proceed with this project. :)

[easTTriver]

Eventually my kid wants to upgrade the processor to the mobo's max: P4 3.4GHz w/HT and 1Gb onboard cache at 800FSB, 2Gb of ram and a 128bit graphics card (the one I bought for him is only a 64-bit but it should suffice for now with the Celeron processor)



1GB cache?

[craigwatanabe]

yeah come on stay current man...nah I meant to say 1Mb of cache, sorry.

Gee I was reading CPU magazine and realized that my ATI Radeon 9200SE 64Mb AGP graphics card is passe now and that current gamers are working with 256Mb PCI-E cards on the newer 915-chipset motherboards. I'm so obsolete before I even build this computer and even if I decide to upgrade to a P4 with HT, my socket 478 mobo is also obsolete even with the capacity to run an 800MHz FSB processor because it doesn't have the newly released PCI-Express bus that's supposed to run circles around AGP and PCI.

And just when I determined that motherboards that have integrated graphics built onboard was a bad thing because it robs ram and processor speed, the new 915G mobos are turning heads on the hardcore exclusive graphic card motherboard users because those boards are outperforming their wildest expectations on what integrated graphics shouldn't do.

So much to understand! And I thought a P4 with HT was enough to be current...Hah was I wrong! Then there's cooling, fragging and what else do gamers indulge in, oh yes silent running boxes.

I need help wading through all this stuff!

[adrian]

- Go with the AGP video cards for now. Unless you'll be locking up the computer and won't be upgrading it for 2 years, then PCI video cards are useless untill the other technology won't bottleneck the performance (and they haven't used up all of the bandwidth that AGP offers, so just wait a few more years).
- Stay with a 128mb video card, unless your son will be doing CAD work or running some extreme setup that requires a lot of video memory.
- 512mb of RAM is all you need.
-*Looks at the first post* NOOOOOO!!! NOT A CELERY!!! That's the worst move you could have made. I know that you have a low budget, but if you look around, then you can get a faster P4 or even an Athlon for that price, and it'll probably kick the behind out of that celery.

Choose a crappy mobo, a highend video card, just don't choose a crappy processor.

[craigwatanabe]

But I don't understand the major differences in the P4 and the Celeron other than speed.

The Celeron D has a rated FSB of 533 and an L2 cache of 256k, same as certain P4's. The only difference I could see is that the P4 has hyper threading.

I know there must be an advantage by going P4 but what is it? Otherwise anyone wanna buy a brand new Celeron-D with 256k L2 cache, 533 FSB, heatsink and cooler fan for a fair price?

[adrian]

But I don't understand the major differences in the P4 and the Celeron other than speed.

The Celeron D has a rated FSB of 533 and an L2 cache of 256k, same as certain P4's. The only difference I could see is that the P4 has hyper threading.

I know there must be an advantage by going P4 but what is it? Otherwise anyone wanna buy a brand new Celeron-D with 256k L2 cache, 533 FSB, heatsink and cooler fan for a fair price?
Its just that there's some instruction changes between those two, and IMO, the P4s are good for gaming, multitasking, or future upgradability (you can do that with a celeron, but you'd have to get a good motherboard to guarantee that).

If you want help in building the computer, then PM me and probably we can make an appointment where I can show you the ropes.

[craigwatanabe]

IT'S ALIVE!!!! IT LIVES!!!! Oh crap had to reset the BIOS...BUT IT LIVES AND BREATHES WINDOWS XP HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA (efx of maniacal laughter echoing in Keaau......)


Actually the build was the easy part, simply slapping everything together, even the BIOS resetting was a piece of cake. After loading in Windows XP, Norton Anti-virus and Open Office (great freeware that emulates MS Office) and Office 2003, I began the tedious process of updating drivers, OS and Anti-virus software.

Now that may seem duck soup but try downloading 10.7Mb of data at 30.2Kbs (dial up with a 56k v92 modem and crappy telephone lines). It took six hours just to update Norton anti-virus! I'm still not done!

My first computer build was a complete success! Amazing, even my wife couldn't believe it. I can't even put together a friggin TV stand from WalMart but I was able to throw together all the stuff needed to make this computer fly. Next step is to upgrade the cpu to a P4 with HT technology and use the Celeron-D 2.26ghz cpu for my home entertainment audio media center computer that's my next project.

Thanks for all the support!

[Glen Miyashiro]

Right on Craig! Don't forget the anti-spyware software, too.

[craigwatanabe]

Eh Glen I got em installed and updated already. Ad-Aware SE loaded and cleaned out the system and ready for installation of SP1 and SP2. That's another all nighter on the internet. I have to do this after midnight when my wife logs off from her online classes at Chaminade. They do this all night chat discussions on Child Development and earn credits while the instructor follows the chat and chimes in occasionally.

That chat room is soooooo boring.

Today I'm painting the monitor black to match the SOYO gaming case I bought to house everything, it's a Sony Trinitron 17" flat screen that I picked up at a computer recycling store (Community Technology Center Hawaii: 934-7748 in Hilo) for $29. It had a year 2000 manufacture date so it's still pretty recent. All it needed was a focus adjustment and that thing is razor sharp now. Tomorrow I finish the project with a trip to Office Max and pick up a decent matching (black) internet keyboard and optical mouse. For sound I'm using my existing Altec Lancing three piece system with subwoofer and another Altec Lancing set of computer speakers for the surround. This PCI sound card is a 6-channel board.

I just may end up keeping this one and build another more powerful monster for my boy. This build was a test to see if I could do it and keep the cost under $600.

[adrian]

Wait, why are you installing Open Office and MS Office?

Congrats on your build! Don't forget to update XP and install SP2!

[craigwatanabe]

I'm installing both Open Office and MS Office 2003 because this computer will eventually go bye bye when my boy leaves the nest in a couple of years. This way in the event something goes "oops" with the MS suite, he has a backup available immediately.

Since I wanted to try Open Office to see how good it was so I decided my boy will be the guinea pig!

On the subject of the build, last night I was updating some of the MS critical updates for WinXP Pro and during two of the downloads I got a virus detection and removal notice from my Norton Anti Virus software. After I cleared the screen, I noticed I couldn't complete my MS downloads.

As a matter of fact I couldn't get thru to any URL! I did a ping test in the "Command" screen and was able to get to the website but not so using either IE or Opera as a browser. I think my anti-virus became corrupted during the MS download (was updated). I tried a process that allowed me to remove a virus was supposed to be removed whereby you turn off your system restore, reboot, do a virus scan, remove the virus then turn on system restore. I just completed the scan but it didn't detect anything.

I may have to reinstall a fresh copy of my anti virus software (Norton 2004) if the copy on the HD is bad. I hope I don't have to reinstall XP but if nothing works, I just may have to. Otherwise the computer's running fine.

I wish Microsoft would put all of the current updates on a CD that can be purchased so people like myself on dial up can update our OS to some recent point and do the more current updates online. They put out SP2 on a CD-ROM why didn't they put the rest of the critical updates on it or another CD and make that available.

Anyway looks like another long night of downloading tonight!

[adrian]

I'm installing both Open Office and MS Office 2003 because this computer will eventually go bye bye when my boy leaves the nest in a couple of years. This way in the event something goes "oops" with the MS suite, he has a backup available immediately.

Since I wanted to try Open Office to see how good it was so I decided my boy will be the guinea pig!

On the subject of the build, last night I was updating some of the MS critical updates for WinXP Pro and during two of the downloads I got a virus detection and removal notice from my Norton Anti Virus software. After I cleared the screen, I noticed I couldn't complete my MS downloads.

As a matter of fact I couldn't get thru to any URL! I did a ping test in the "Command" screen and was able to get to the website but not so using either IE or Opera as a browser. I think my anti-virus became corrupted during the MS download (was updated). I tried a process that allowed me to remove a virus was supposed to be removed whereby you turn off your system restore, reboot, do a virus scan, remove the virus then turn on system restore. I just completed the scan but it didn't detect anything.

I may have to reinstall a fresh copy of my anti virus software (Norton 2004) if the copy on the HD is bad. I hope I don't have to reinstall XP but if nothing works, I just may have to. Otherwise the computer's running fine.

I wish Microsoft would put all of the current updates on a CD that can be purchased so people like myself on dial up can update our OS to some recent point and do the more current updates online. They put out SP2 on a CD-ROM why didn't they put the rest of the critical updates on it or another CD and make that available.

Anyway looks like another long night of downloading tonight!
You can order a CD from Microsoft that has all of the updates and SP2 (on two seperate discs).

If I can find those, then maybe I can send you a copy. (where are you downloading the updates from? I hope its from MS's main site)

BTW, since you like free software, ditch norton, and get AVG AV (http://www.grisoft.com). Its free, and sometimes, it better than Norton.

And get a firewall like ZoneAlarm's free firewall.

[craigwatanabe]

I'm not a huge fan of freeware but I use it when applicable. The Norton anti-virus package I bought was the 5-user pack (five licenses). I think I will dump it as Norton has allowed a Trojan to infect at least three of my computers at some point or other. I tried the AVG and it worked then it too fell to a trojan with the latest updates. I may try this one advertised in PC Magazine called NOD 32, "Record winner of the Virus Bulletin 100% Award" whatever that is. But they claim 100% as compared to Norton missing 50% on WinXP.

I tried ZoneAlarm and quite frankly I find it a bit confusing so I use WinXP's built in firewall.

You know it funny you mentioned where I was downloading the updates from because in the past I simply went to Tools>Windows Update and downloaded right there. This time during one of the downloads, the screen took me to a site that looked close but different from the MS site and it even asked me to click onto a "mirror" site for the updates. That's when Norton started detecting a trojan. After I couldn't get back into the Windows update website, I tried MSN and got this really funky substitute version. I tried Yahoo and same thing a somewhat different version appeared. At that point I think my computer got hijacked so I immediately shut down the system and am now running both Norton and Ad-Aware in safe mode offline. Ad-Aware caught one spyware that it didn't catch in the normal Windows screen. I'm still scanning in safe mode with Norton.

If scanning doesn't detect anything in safe mode my next step is to reinstall Norton then go directly to Windows Update and update the OS before I update Norton. I did it the other way and I got hit while updating the OS. If all that doesn't work, I'll reinstall a fresh copy of WinXP and hope for the best.

I would really appreciate a copy of the earlier updates for WinXP. I'm running XP Pro. Private message me by clicking onto my name in this post and lets talk! Thanks

[Konaguy]

Craig they did put all the Pre SP2 XP security updates on to a CD.It came out in February 2004. Unfourtnately it is not
available anymore.

But I have a solution for you. If you can get a hold of SP2
update CD it will include all the previous security updates.

Better yet you can slipstream SP2 with your XP CD making the
installation easier by reducing all the files on to one CD.
I did this by using this program http://nuhi.msfn.org/download.html.

If you want to walk on the wild side, you can use that same
program to eliminate Windows components you do not need.
I did this and reduced the installation from 584MB with SP2
to 188MB.

Bear in mind do not remove :
1. IE Browser [Can't access Windows Update]
2. IE Core [Cannot activate XP]
3. Out of the box experience [Cannot activate XP]

[craigwatanabe]

That's cool! Cuz I got the SP2 cd. I ordered it online (free) from MS because with dial up I'd rather listen to Waioli Kai (American Asylum message board) rant for an entire evening than downloading SP2 online.

I'm hesitant on using the SP2 cd because of all the problems associated with SP 2. Can I selectively download from the CD without SP 2?

If possible this would help me immensely!

[Konaguy]

That's cool! Cuz I got the SP2 cd. I ordered it online (free) from MS because with dial up I'd rather listen to Waioli Kai (American Asylum message board) rant for an entire evening than downloading SP2 online.

I'm hesitant on using the SP2 cd because of all the problems associated with SP 2. Can I selectively download from the CD without SP 2?

If possible this would help me immensely!

The previous security update CD you could select what updates to install.
I believe on the SP2 CD that is not possible, as it just has XP SP2 on there.
To be honest I have run XP SP2 on two different computers and never ran
into a problem. As far as I read the problems were related to 3rd party software not playing nice with the update.

Essentially if I were you I would install SP2 it would secure your computer
better, adds a pop-up blocker to IE, and will save time in downloading.

[easTTriver]

The previous security update CD you could select what updates to install.
I believe on the SP2 CD that is not possible, as it just has XP SP2 on there.
To be honest I have run XP SP2 on two different computers and never ran
into a problem. As far as I read the problems were related to 3rd party software not playing nice with the update.

Essentially if I were you I would install SP2 it would secure your computer
better, adds a pop-up blocker to IE, and will save time in downloading.

it had problems when it first came out with not only 3rd party stuff but also Microsoft's own such as .net and SMS and others. we had problems with these at the company that i work for.

[craigwatanabe]

Problems? Okay I'll start...Here's today's Craig Watanabe computer tip of the day: Never install SP2 if you went cheap and decided to use a hacker's bootlegged WinXP Pro Disk. Yep got a hand on one of those "cracked" XP Pro with corporate reg key since I didn't buy a legit copy when I purchased my barebones kit (gotta call New Egg to see if they'll honor a purchase without hardware since I already bought the hardware).

Well SP2 went in flawlessly and when I rebooted it hung right after the bios. I did a fresh install again and it hung once more. Lesson learned, SP2 will search and disable your bootlegged Windows product if you download it into your system. At least that's what it did to me.

You're right about the SP2 disk from MS. You cannot select which updates you want. You load it in and it takes over from start to finish.

Now I'm afraid to download this disk in my legit computer. SP2 is good as they say but gosh after going thru what I went thru I don't want to take that chance.

There's this place recommended by Tucows called Megasoft Discounts at http://www.cheapsoftz.com/microsoft.html

These guys will as I paste their statement:

No shipping necessary! All listed software is available for immediate download - after you submit your order, you will be given access to our download servers. Software comes in as a single ISO image (.iso), or WinZIP/WinRAR archive. You are receiving FULL version of software.

All our products are covered by an unconditional 60-day money-back guarantee. If for any reason you are not satisfied with your product in the first 60 days after purchase, simply contact our customer service team and we'll make it right, or we will arrange for a return and full refund, less shipping and handling (if applicable).

Why so cheap!?
Unlike retailers, we do not sell software in a fancy box, with printed documentation, etc., meaning we do not shell out on CD manufacturing. The software itself is only what you get - available for download right after purchase!

Apparently you download a compressed file of whatever software you want (Windows XP Home full version) and they include the trial copy of Nero 6.3 Ultra CD burning software. You burn a copy of that CD and viola, your legit copy of Windows XP Home for $49.

So my question is: Is this website legit? I mean $49 for an OEM legitimate copy of Windows XP Home full-blown edition? That's too good to be true, and you should check out their full software selection including games, utilities and others.

[adrian]

Problems? Okay I'll start...Here's today's Craig Watanabe computer tip of the day: Never install SP2 if you went cheap and decided to use a hacker's bootlegged WinXP Pro Disk. Yep got a hand on one of those "cracked" XP Pro with corporate reg key since I didn't buy a legit copy when I purchased my barebones kit (gotta call New Egg to see if they'll honor a purchase without hardware since I already bought the hardware).

Well SP2 went in flawlessly and when I rebooted it hung right after the bios. I did a fresh install again and it hung once more. Lesson learned, SP2 will search and disable your bootlegged Windows product if you download it into your system. At least that's what it did to me.

You're right about the SP2 disk from MS. You cannot select which updates you want. You load it in and it takes over from start to finish.

Now I'm afraid to download this disk in my legit computer. SP2 is good as they say but gosh after going thru what I went thru I don't want to take that chance.

There's this place recommended by Tucows called Megasoft Discounts at http://www.cheapsoftz.com/microsoft.html

These guys will as I paste their statement:

No shipping necessary! All listed software is available for immediate download - after you submit your order, you will be given access to our download servers. Software comes in as a single ISO image (.iso), or WinZIP/WinRAR archive. You are receiving FULL version of software.

All our products are covered by an unconditional 60-day money-back guarantee. If for any reason you are not satisfied with your product in the first 60 days after purchase, simply contact our customer service team and we'll make it right, or we will arrange for a return and full refund, less shipping and handling (if applicable).

Why so cheap!?
Unlike retailers, we do not sell software in a fancy box, with printed documentation, etc., meaning we do not shell out on CD manufacturing. The software itself is only what you get - available for download right after purchase!

Apparently you download a compressed file of whatever software you want (Windows XP Home full version) and they include the trial copy of Nero 6.3 Ultra CD burning software. You burn a copy of that CD and viola, your legit copy of Windows XP Home for $49.

So my question is: Is this website legit? I mean $49 for an OEM legitimate copy of Windows XP Home full-blown edition? That's too good to be true, and you should check out their full software selection including games, utilities and others.
Lesson learned (you're the second person I know locally who did that).

BTW, get the OS from a reputable place like newegg.com. I rather spend the $100 for a legit copy than from some place that.

And sorry, I can't find the CD with the updates.