supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

[dogbuckeye]

Hi,

In January, my partner and I are traveling to Maui and Molokai on a low-impact vacation (mostly camping). Here in Denver, Colorado, we support indigenous liberation struggles, such as the American Indian Movement. While we're in Maui and Molokai, we'd like to pay our respects to local Hawaiian social and political organizations seeking freedom. Any recommendations? Any activities or actions planned in January/February?

I recently read that about a year ago or so there were protests on Molokai against the cruise ships invading and further exocitizing. Any update?

in solidarity,

Mark Schneider
Denver, CO
dogbuckeye@yahoo.com

[Miulang]

Hi,

In January, my partner and I are traveling to Maui and Molokai on a low-impact vacation (mostly camping). Here in Denver, Colorado, we support indigenous liberation struggles, such as the American Indian Movement. While we're in Maui and Molokai, we'd like to pay our respects to local Hawaiian social and political organizations seeking freedom. Any recommendations? Any activities or actions planned in January/February?

I recently read that about a year ago or so there were protests on Molokai against the cruise ships invading and further exocitizing. Any update?

in solidarity,

Mark Schneider
Denver, CO
dogbuckeye@yahoo.com
You need to be very very careful as a malihini (newcomer) not to rock the boat. Even though Hawaii and its people are perceived to be warm and welcoming, charging full speed ahead (as most nonlocals tend to do) will probably not get you very far nor will you be very welcome. The political climate in Hawai'i is a little cloudy right now. Yes, there is a move in Congress to officially recognize the kanaka maoli (the original people of Hawai'i) and award them the same kinds of rights that some Native American tribes have (read about the Akaka Bill), but there is no unity among the kanaka maoli in this regard. Some recognize the Office of Hawaiian Affairs as the arbiter in their struggle for recognition while remaining part of the US (the ones who favor the Akaka bill), and then you have other groups who want to become an entirely sovereign nation.

The best thing you can do is just listen to and respect everyone while you are visiting. And most of all, respect the land. This is particularly true on Moloka'i, which is a whole lot less cosmopolitan than the rest of Hawai'i, which is part of its "charm". But the residents do look askance at anyone who acts differently and they only tolerate tourists. In fact, many residents would prefer to be left alone. They live very self contained lives, there's a lot of unemployment (there's no industry per se) but for the most part, the residents seem pretty content. They have a saying there: Leave your money and leave.

They could have welcomed the cruise ships into their harbor and created many new jobs and a lot of much-needed income, but they protested and managed to get the cruise lines to back off. Tourism is kind of a sore topic for them, even though some do make a living being tour guides.

I imagine you will be camping at Papohaku Beach? There aren't that many nice camping areas on Moloka'i, but Papohaku Beach is spectacular. If you visit a heiau (there's a huge one on Moloka'i called Iliiliopae but you need permission to visit because it's on private property), don't bring any offerings and simply relish the quiet and say a silent prayer.

You'll probably be bummed out by Mau'i. It's gotten very commercialized. While not quite as bad as Honolulu, it's well on its way to becoming another LA. :(

Miulang

[kimo55]

They have a saying there: Leave your money and leave.



here's just a lil assortment of other things that "some" say:

"We'll take your money and you take your leave.
and stay away from our heiau. Too sacred for the profane."


"Tourists; the other white meat."

"If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them?!"


sorry, eh, but dass da way 'tis.

oh. anodda tourist experience...

On the way to the Aloha Tower, walking through Chinatown, a tourist is fascinated with all the Chinese restaurants, shops, signs and banners. He turns a corner and sees a building with the sign, "Hans Olaffsen's Laundry."

"Hans Olaffsen?", he muses. "How in hell does that fit in here?" So he walks into the shop and sees an old Chinese gentleman behind the counter.

The tourist asks, "How did this place get a name like 'Hans Olaffsen's Laundry?'" The old man answers, "azz da owner's name."

The tourist asks, "Well, who and where is the owner?" "I steh right heah, brah," replies the old man.

"You? How did you ever get a name like Hans Olaffsen?"

"dass seempo," says the old man. "Many, many year ago when firs' time wen steh coming to this island, was stand in line Documentation Centah. Man in front was big bumboocha haole Swede. da wahine wen spok heem and spik, 'What your name?' He say, 'Hans Olaffsen.' Then she look at me and go, 'What your name?'"

"I say Sam Ting."




****** but all seriousness aside, I gotta tellya:

as "sovereignty" means freedom from external control, they will rightfully be suspicious and unaccepting about an external element, (tourist/mainlander/haole) coming over and interjecting into the "fray".

hell; it is known that some kama'aina haole even have a tough time as it is, helping toward the cause of the Kanaka maoli. Why would a f.o.b tourist find it any easier?

[Miulang]

Ass one good one, Kimo! :D

[dogbuckeye]

Thanks so much for being so clear and honest with your advice. Got it.

- Mark
Denver

[kimo55]

Thanks so much for being so clear and honest with your advice. Got it.

- Mark
Denver


no but really, seriously. no offense meant. I am cognizant of much of your efforts in this milieu, Mark. The quantity and quality of your writings (and efforts) are exemplary.... but all the above actually holds true irrespective of a mainlander's resume.

aloha.

[craigwatanabe]

Remember when going to Molokai, Kaunakakai (where the airport is) is the dividing line between east and west Molokai much like the Mason Dixon line! On the east is the Haole's (foreigners) and on the west is the Kanaka Maoli (locals). But if you go to the eastern tip of Molokai where Haleiwa Valley is, don't go hiking without permission from the landowner or you may get shot. And da buggah ain't aiming for your kneecaps!

For those activists or supporters of Sovereignty, the Hawaiians have already been stabbed in the back by the White man. They simply don't trust them anymore regardless of their sympathies. The best way to show support for the Hawaiian Sovereignty movement is to acknowledge their plight and stay out of their way. Hawaiians are a proud people and don't feel they need the help of outsiders.

I'm 100% Japanese born and raised in Hawaii and support the Hawaiian's protests but you won't see me marching in their protest marches simply because I don't belong in that crowd. To march with them tells them that I feel their frustrations and can understand their anger.

Unless you have been victimized directly, how can you understand the pain and anguish the true victim went thru. I can't and for that I don't pretend to or even try to understand their frustrations. All I can do is to support them from a distance and honor their desire to be left alone and that's what you as supporters of a different skin should do also.

It's good that you feel the need to support the plight of the Hawaiians. It's not good if you tell them you understand their frustration as an outsider because you haven't had your ancestral lands taken away from you illegally. All you can do is to stand back and show your support from a respectable distance. Every person needs their space, and for the Hawaiians that space is the state of Hawaii and you're trampling on it simply by being there in good faith or not.
:)

[Glen Miyashiro]

What Craig said.

[kimo55]

What Craig said.


What Glen said.

[Peshkwe]

I am metis...I am Ojibwe, Odawa, and Potowatomie. I have cousins on Walpole Island Rez and Little Travers Bay Rez.

I wouldn't even go unless invited...it's a little thing called respect.

[Miulang]

I am metis...I am Ojibwe, Odawa, and Potowatomie. I have cousins on Walpole Island Rez and Little Travers Bay Rez.

I wouldn't even go unless invited...it's a little thing called respect.
What Peschkwe said.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

And there you go...show respect and be respected for respecting their plight...nuff said. :)

[kimo55]

being shot around anonymously via e-mail lately..

How Hawaiians feel about the overthrow


Let's pretend I visit your house: You offer me food and rest. I decide to stay. I order you and your family around, use your things and rearrange the rooms. I take down your photos and religious symbols, replace them with my own and make you speak my language. One day, I dig up your garden and replace it with crops that I can sell. You and your family must now buy all your food from me. Later, I invite my father and his buddies over. They bring guns. We take your keys. I forge a deed and declare my father to be owner of the house. I bring more people. Some work for me. Some pay me to stay in your house. I seize your savings and spend it on my friends. You and your family sleep on the porch.


Finally, you protest. Being reasonable, I let you stay in a corner of the house and give you a small allowance, but only if you behave. I tell you, "Sorry, I was wrong for taking the house." But when you demand your house back, I tell you to be realistic.


"You are a part of this family now, whether you like it or not," I say. "Besides, this is for your own good. For all that I have done for you, why aren't you grateful?"

[craigwatanabe]

Well look on the bright side Kimo...nah no matter what happens a wrong cannot be justified and one day justice has to be served, keep the vigil!

[kimo55]

and another intriguing site...

http://freehawaii.org

"Most Americans still think Hawaii actually wanted to become part of their country, never knowing that we're a conquered Nation and deeply resent our loss of Sovereignty."

Hawaii has NEVER legally become a territory of the US, let alone a State. Make it Right! Restore us to the status of independent and sovereign Nation. Free Hawaii - NOW!

[katw2323]

I am writing a paper on Hawaiian sovereignmty and I wanted to get some feedback from those who feel strongly on this subject. I am having to write pros and cons for the paper, and i do not want to step on anyones toes here either. Could any of you help me on this. Thanks you. You can email me directly at jackrussel23@hotmail.com

[1stwahine]

R E S P E C T ! plain and simple...odda wise you in trouble big time!

[sinjin]

Hawaii has NEVER legally become a territory of the US, let alone a State. Make it Right! Restore us to the status of independent and sovereign Nation. Free Hawaii - NOW!

In a freed Hawaii what would likely happen to "locals" with no Hawaiian blood? How about haoles born there or long time residents? I assume haole mainlanders would likely be prohibited from moving there in future but what about non-haole mainlanders or foreigners?

[kimo55]

In a freed Hawaii what would likely happen to "locals" with no Hawaiian blood? How about haoles born there or long time residents? I assume haole mainlanders would likely be prohibited from moving there in future but what about non-haole mainlanders or foreigners?


yaknow, I will never claim to have the answers re; sovereignty. It is a very complex issue. with no clearcut definitive answers. that quote was from that site. I raise these "issues" to get people thinking. And talking about the subjects. and think about what their true feelings are. and maybe they think they should learn more about it... (just like the pope is dead thing. Look how people elucidate... or voice their convictions...)
I will invite, to this board, the various heads or resentatives of the groups from the links I listed, (and others on my site) to share their mana'o and see what they feel about these questions...

[sinjin]

Not meant to convey anything but if I could share a little story my wife told me of late and ask a question:

My wife belongs to an online mommy group. A military wife stationed on Oahu related her story about going to the park regularly and seeing a "local" family there whose children played with hers. When she thought to ask if a "play-date" might be arranged between their kids she was snubbed and told absolutely not, "we are Hawaiian Sovereignty supporters".

How does not allowing children to play together further HS?

[Glen Miyashiro]

In a freed Hawaii what would likely happen to "locals" with no Hawaiian blood? How about haoles born there or long time residents? I assume haole mainlanders would likely be prohibited from moving there in future but what about non-haole mainlanders or foreigners?Who knows? There are so many examples in the world of really scary and violent changes when the colonizing power moves out of a former colony -- some of the African countries come to mind, where the non-blacks (both white and Indians) who've lived in the country for generations are forced to flee and their property is appropriated, legally or not, by others. Closer to home, there's all the turmoil in Fiji and the uncertainty that the Indian-Fijian population there still suffers under. I can only hope that if Hawai'i ever takes back sovereignty from the USA, those in power will consider these examples and choose their course compassionately.

[kimo55]

How does not allowing children to play together further HS?


good question. this either was a solitary, individual case, or the guidelines for a particular sovereignty group. dunno. would be intriguing to find out.

[pzarquon]

You'll find all kinds, as with anywhere else, and in addition to the fact that there are some intensely committed advocates of complete and unequivocal Hawaiian independence, there is a long history of animosity between Hawaiian groups and the military. The military mom in your story probably wandered into the perfect storm of unfriendliness, unfortunately. True, working to educate others rather than preemptively shunning them might be a more productive approach in the long run, but there's a lot of underlying (and understandable) hostility and frustration out there.

I'm part Hawaiian (got my OHA card for when the revolution comes), but I'm actually a moderate, which in some circles makes me either misguided or a traitor. And, believe it or not, there are some native Hawaiians who are not interested in sovereignty issues at all. So I'd only urge caution in characterizing the views of a group too broadly.

[kimo55]

I'm part Hawaiian (got my OHA card for when the revolution comes), but I'm actually a moderate, which in some circles makes me either misguided or a traitor.


no, you will be chosen as the diplomat for the settlement proceedings and various powwows.

[craigwatanabe]

easy...marry a Hawaiian and transfer all your land holdings to that spouse so you can stay provided you apply for the Hawaiian version of the green card and I don't mean American Express.

[Miulang]

I'm sure the government and the DoD would have a big time worry if Hawai'i became a sovereign nation. The DOD would have to pay the kanaka maoli all kinds of biiiiiig kala to keep Pearl Harbor and Schofield active, because then they would have to pay rent. Ha! Then it would be just like Panama City or Gitmo...All the non Native people who thought they bought their houselots "fee simple" might become leaseholders. I seriously doubt the US government would allow the kanaka maoli true sovereignty...their "compromise" is the Akaka Bill, whose passaage would then treat the kanaka maoli like Native American tribes. I dunno...most of the federally recognized tribes are all into casinos and gambling, not going back to the way they used to live before. Would the same thing happen to the kanaka maoli? Would Hawai'i become another Principality of Monaco? Or would it evolve into another Las Vegas? (might as well...plenty Hawai'i people have moved to LV to escape the high prices of Hawai'i).

Miulang

[sinjin]

easy...marry a Hawaiian and transfer all your land holdings to that spouse so you can stay provided you apply for the Hawaiian version of the green card and I don't mean American Express.

I asked, my wife said no.

[pzarquon]

I'm sure the government and the DoD would have a big time worry if Hawai'i became a sovereign nation. The DOD would have to pay the kanaka maoli all kinds of biiiiiig kala to keep Pearl Harbor and Schofield active, because then they would have to pay rent. Ha!I've not read anyone say this before, but I honestly think that locals vastly overestimate Hawaii's value to the military. In terms of invested infrastructure, you bet your sweet bippy giving it up would hurt. But in terms of strategtic importance? I think our time in the "sweet spot" of federal warmaking pork has long since passed.

Not only has technology and aircraft range pretty much made the Pacific no different from any other geographical expanse, but as the nature of conflict changes from inter-national to intra-regional (i.e. instead of country X against country Y, it's group X within countries Y and Z), having heavily fortified bases or even "staging grounds" in one location is really not that important.

If even, in the independence advocates' wildest fantasies, the military were pushed out (and that would take some doing), the U.S. wouldn't be particularly harmed. Even with the increasingly cool reception the U.S. military has been having in some southeast Asian locations, there are still plenty of small countries (and south Pacific islands) that'd be happy to host a mobile strike force or two in exchange for the economic boost it would bring.

I know those who hate the military would love to see them pull out of Hawaii entirely, to hell with the real economic impact it would have on real families, Hawaiians included. But when I see people whose livelihoods depend, even if indirectly, on the military say, "They need us, so screw 'em, it's not like they're going anywhere," I have to think, "Don't be so sure."

[Glen Miyashiro]

True. Look at the Philippines. The US military just pulled out and left, and how's Subic Bay doing these days anyway? Not so good from what I've heard. Wham bam, thank you ma'am.

[Miulang]

I know those who hate the military would love to see them pull out of Hawaii entirely, to hell with the real economic impact it would have on real families, Hawaiians included. But when I see people whose livelihoods depend, even if indirectly, on the military say, "They need us, so screw 'em, it's not like they're going anywhere," I have to think, "Don't be so sure."
That's why your local government has to stop thinking of the DoD as a cash cow that is never gonna go away. What would replace it if the Navy and Marines folded up their tents and left town? Where would all those civilian workers be able to find jobs? You can't really rely on tourism, either, because that's kind of cyclical...depends on which part of the world is booming economically and which part is going bust. With less money coming in to the State coffers from the military and tourism, how would the state be able to feed all its people if the farmlands are all being swallowed up by development?

I did a little research on kalo for an article I submitted to the April edition of the enewsletter for www.alohaworld.com. Did you know, for instance, that a productive l'oi could yield 3-5 tons of taro in a year? As a byproduct, the wetland lo'is can also be used to raise fish and opa'e. Hard work, but every part of the taro plant can be used. Those kanaka maoli were on to something.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Ahhh but all of you forget one strategic importance of Hawaii and it's geographic location. Yes it does provide a convienent staging point for Pacific Rim issues however we're also isolated (the most isolated port of call on Earth) indicating if someone wanted to nuke our Pacific Fleet, or Military Airlift Command, Hawaii is so far removed from the the mainland that any nuclear or collateral damage will be limited to JUST THE HAWAIIAN ISLANDS and it's inhabitants.

So let's look at the conspiracy theory whacko ultra paranoid view on this scenerio: North Korea is building it's long-range nuclear capeability to a point where it's ICBM's can reach Hawaii. Why? Our military bases and strategic location that's why.

Before NK is allowed to get to that point, the United States stations aircraft carriers to remove any marine and navy personnel and weapons on short notice. The U.S. Air Force deploys it's C-17 cargo planes in Hawaii to quickly relocate it's Army troops to the West coast. The Air Force along with the Army is gone with it's planes and personnel, the Navy is gone along with the Marines on it's large flotilla. The Coast Guard is on active duty under the Navy so they ditch Hawaii's coastal waters and head northeast to the West coast.

Suddenly Hawaii's skies and shorelines (thousands of miles of it) is suddenly unprotected leaving the former 50th state open for the taking by any nation.

Okay, which nation does Hawaii want to ally itself with? Remember this state is dependent on open ocean shipping lanes much like Cuba. An embargo by any large foreign navy could literally bring Hawaii to it's knees.

So who wants Hawaii's stratetic location? Well North Korea comes to mind as they could do a rear flank invasion on Japan or even hold the entire West Coast of the United States hostage. China is another country that could appreciate Hawaii's location. Virtually every country capeable of overtaking Hawaii's state militia that hates us (and the list keeps growing) would want these islands.

Does Hawaii want to be under an islamic nation? Or how about a Greek Orthodox nation (any of the former Soviet bloc republics), hmmm how about an atheist nation! I'm sure the ACLU would love that. But then again the ACLU would be all corralled and hung because countries like China despise civil liberties for any of it's country men and women.

Bottom line is that Hawaii couldn't defend itself to the point of independance by any nation bent on wanting or destroying us. Remember even countries like Iraq could wreak havoc on us with terrorism since we wouldn't be under the protective cover of the U.S. Homeland security, the CIA, FBI, or even our Federal Air marshals.

Our physical location is more important to nations who hate the United States of America than our political/international business relations to the world. The Hawaiian Islands is an important stepping stone to virtually any Pacific Rim country and that's why the U.S. is so bent on keeping Hawaii within it's republic. The West Coast represents a very big and open border of this country. Hawaii is the border patrol that keeps hostile nations from reaching the mainland. The East coast at least has Great Britain to buffer it's coastline before any attack. Canada and Mexico are our North and South buffer zones. But the West coast is wide open to attack from North Korea and China with the exception of Hawaii, Guam and Japan. We lost Subic Bay to the gain of Hawaii. If the U.S. loses Hawaii, Guam will reap the gains. You cannot put too much credance in Japan because it is a foreign nation much like Hawaii would become.

My feelings are that if we see a major build up of military bases on Guam, better consider selling your real estate in Hawaii and moving to the East Coast because the West coast will be soon losing another strategic location to protect itself. Hawaii right now has no way of protecting itself from incoming long range missle attacks other than it's strategic and tactical forces offered by the USA. Basically we're sitting ducks open for attack and easy pickings once the United States of America relenquishes it's governing authority over Hawaii.

If I had to pick a nation for security, I'd pick the biggest, baddest, and most powerful buggah on the planet. Unfortunately they picked Hawaii first but then if the United States hadn't overtaken Hawaii when it did, I'm fairly sure the fate of WWII would have been remarkably different and those plastic Tiki gods that Longs Drugs sells at it's Ala Moana Center store location would have true meaning with it's "made in Japan" sticker on the base. :eek:

I support the Hawaiian's plight but realistically I cannot see a long term favorable outcome for Native Hawaiians other than monetary reparations. That's sad but with the state of the world as we see it today, we are much safer under the governance of the United States of America than any other country or independance. :(

[sinjin]

...if the United States hadn't overtaken Hawaii when it did, I'm fairly sure the fate of WWII would have been remarkably different and those plastic Tiki gods that Longs Drugs sells at it's Ala Moana Center store location would have true meaning with it's "made in Japan" sticker on the base. :eek:
(

I'd bet that if Hawaii had not been under U.S. "protection" that a full scale landing by the forces of the Japanese empire would have been carried out instead of an aerial bombardment. Hawaii might be another Okinawa today.

[Glen Miyashiro]

I'd bet that if Hawaii had not been under U.S. "protection" that a full scale landing by the forces of the Japanese empire would have been carried out instead of an aerial bombardment. Hawaii might be another Okinawa today.A few years ago, a couple of local history professors decided to write a what-if book about that, called Red Sun: The Invasion of Hawaii After Pearl Harbor (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1573061336). It was pretty horrific: death camps in Diamond Head crater, Waikīkī comfort women, a puppet Hawaiian monarchy controlled by Tokyo, the works. A worthwhile read.

[sinjin]

A few years ago, a couple of local history professors decided to write a what-if book about that, called Red Sun: The Invasion of Hawaii After Pearl Harbor (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1573061336). It was pretty horrific: death camps in Diamond Head crater, Waik?k? comfort women, a puppet Hawaiian monarchy controlled by Tokyo, the works. A worthwhile read.

Much appreciated.

[waioli kai]

dogbuckey: "My partner and I are traveling to Maui and Molokai on a low-impact vacation (mostly camping)."
Low budget, too, one might surmise. Regardless, be wary of indigenous "tax" collections.
- - - - - - - - -

: "We support indigenous liberation struggles, such as the American Indian Movement. While we're in Maui and Molokai, we'd like to pay our respects to local Hawaiian social and political organizations seeking freedom. Any recommendations?"
If you get any e-mail responses, I recommend you first suspect you may be stung by some "eager to serve" US Homeland Security wanna-be director not much older than yourself.

As for "local Hawaiian social and political organizations seeking freedom": to say "local Hawaiian" to a Hawaiian is something of an insult. In Hawai'i, to be Hawaiian is necessarily to be local. A Hawai'ian can ask another Hawai'ian if is he is "local" Hawaiian, but, it is usually out of place (in fact rude) for a haole (a foreigner) to ask a Hawai'ian, 'Are you local Hawai'ian?'
- - - - - - - - -

: "Seeking freedom", "indigenous liberation struggles" ? 'Secessionists from corporatUSt$, capitalUSt$. militarUSt$ US of the United States?'
U.S. citizens conspiring to secede, plotting to secede from the United States is right up there at the top of US paranoiUS of State's "To Prevent List". Or is it, To Pre-empt List

[craigwatanabe]

It's even ruder to use the word, "Hawaiian" as a means of asking of one's ancestry. The word Hawaiian was adopted by early missionaries as a way of describing those indigenent to those islands. And for that reason you don't put that okina in the word Hawaiian because it's not in it's vocabulary.

The correct term is Kanaka Maoli which is the true 100% Native Hawaiian so when asked you're Hawaiian you shake your head and tell them you're Kanaka Maoli.


And there are non-local Hawaiians...those born away from the islands who have never been to Hawaii much less know anything of it's culture. I wouldn't exactly give them the honor of being called "local" by any means. I have a friend who is just that and I refer to him (jokingly) as Katonka Ma Haole (as in the Japanese term for U.S. Mainland born Japanese called Katonks and Haole in general).

[Glen Miyashiro]

It's even ruder to use the word, "Hawaiian" as a means of asking of one's ancestry. The word Hawaiian was adopted by early missionaries as a way of describing those indigenent to those islands. And for that reason you don't put that okina in the word Hawaiian because it's not in it's vocabulary.

The correct term is Kanaka Maoli which is the true 100% Native Hawaiian so when asked you're Hawaiian you shake your head and tell them you're Kanaka Maoli.Really? You must travel in very different circles from me. The kanaka maoli I know have never made a point of insisting to be called that. "Hawaiian" was always the term that they used, so it's the term I use, too.

But yeah, "Hawaiian" is the English term, and therefore is without 'okina and kahakō; and "kanaka maoli" is the term in 'Ōlelo Hawai'i.

[craigwatanabe]

we must have been watching different programming on OC16 because that's where I heard this too, on Olelo. My wife says the same thing after taking Hawaiian Studies at UH Manoa.

Bottom line though is that the word "Hawaiian" is foreign to native speakers as it is an english derivative to describe being of that particular ancestry.

On Olelo I heard that the term Kanaka Maoli meant 100% and not part-Hawaiian.