Racial tensions at Radford High School

[Miulang]

Hawai'i is considered the "Melting Pot" which means that everybody gets along with everybody else...most of the time.

I realize that there has always been underlying conflict between races in Hawai'i, but rarely does it get to this point. Sad to see that the kids at Radford have to resort to violence. :mad: Where do their misperceptions about people come from? The kids' parents? Their friends? The community?

Being a teenager is a pretty dicey time anyway. All kinds of temptations surround you (drugs, alcohol, smoking), and peer pressure (wanting to belong to a group) just makes things worse.

Miulang

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/02/ln/ln10p.html

[kimo55]

Hawai'i is considered the "Melting Pot" which means that everybody gets along with everybody else...most of the time.


that's the supposed theory, most of the time. but back when I wen go Central and McKinley, had fights, small and large altercations weekly. Just a part of growing up. part of life in the melting pot. No one sued. Now a federal case is made outta it erry time. back then, it just toughened up the students and made them learn how to deal with it. Rather than running to mommy or calling in the authorities and lawyers.
Sheesh.

[1stwahine]

that's the supposed theory, most of the time. but back when I wen go Central and McKinley, had fights, small and large altercations weekly. Just a part of growing up. part of life in the melting pot. No one sued. Now a federal case is made outta it erry time. back then, it just toughened up the students and made them learn how to deal with it. Rather than running to mommy or calling in the authorities and lawyers.
Sheesh.

WOW! I got to agree. I went to Kalakaua and Mckinley, GO TIGERS! Yep, back then, we fight against schools, amongst each other, even kill Haole Day. Nothing ever came to this extreme, and parents suing? Give me a break! It's a part of growing up. But then again, today is different from when I was going to school. :rolleyes:

[Glen Miyashiro]

The whole "everybody gets along in Hawai'i" meme is getting ragged at the edges. I think a lot of the truth of it originally was because everybody (read: all the different plantation-laborer ethnic groups) was in the same boat and had shared the same experiences. These days that's just not true anymore. Hawai'i society is stratifying again, and now you've got people who barely know anything about each other living in close proximity.

A Farrington High grad I know told me about how, at UH-Mānoa, she met an 'Iolani boy from Kailua who was embarrassingly naive and sheltered and asked her, wide-eyed, about all the gang violence in Kalihi. Really, they came from two different worlds. :(

This Radford incident is just another example, which is exacerbated by the culture clash and the extreme lack of exposure of most local kids to black people.

[hkplayer]

Part of my experience on this thread allows me to learn the cultural aspect of hawaii. Even though I always considered hawaii to be the melting pot of all melting pots (certainly moreso than canada), it is unfortunate that there is violence and racial tensions amongst its people.
I think no matter where we live there will always be racial tension and/or teases, I just always wished that there was less of this in hawaii. Nonetheless, it happens everywhere...I cant see this to be a factor in dissuading me to relocate there someday.

[kimo55]

...I always considered hawaii to be the melting pot of all melting pots .


as rap points out in his video, that's pretty much a misnomer. It's more like a tossed salad, all meexemup insai.
Not much melting done, aside from the decades ago cultural assimilation of languages, food, customs, etc.. ( hemo da sleepahs... japanee words mixed in pidgin...etc..)


the "melting pot" thing along with the overinstitutionalised, conceptualised concept of "the aloha spirit" expounded by the visitor tourist bureau, is to a very large degree, pure marketing, heavy exploitation of, and playing up aspects of island life that are some of the marked differences we have with the mainland.

[pzarquon]

Educator friends of mine are debating this quite a bit this week. The Radford incident has three basic theories.

The "racial" (general anti-black) angle was the most loudly proclaimed, mentioned explicitly and early by KITV (which happened to have cameras rolling on Monday when several follow-up fights broke out on campus). The school seems to think the stronger faction dividing lines are "gang related," and in fact that the gangs in conflict are not so clearly separated by race. And lots of folks feel it's more a "cultural" conflict, as in "military versus local," again with race as an element but not the deciding factor.

I think race relations are an issue in Hawaii, and I agree that the "happy melting pot of cultures" stereotype/sell is hogwash. And this incident certainly provides a basis for more attention and discussion. But unlike the Radford parents, I'm not ready to declare the Radford fights as proof of a "race war" or anything, nor something with which to condemn the entirety of the school or the island community as a whole.

[Glen Miyashiro]

If you look at military dependents in Hawai'i, you'll find some like our own Memorylane who love it here, but I think that you'd probably find quite a few who hate it and can't wait to get back to the States. And you can't really blame them; after all, they didn't ask to come here in the first place. Dad or Mom got assigned to Schofield, or Hickam, or Pearl, or K-Bay (how I hate that neologism) and so here they are in a new school amidst new kids who they have little in common with. Hawai'i isn't unique in this respect; this whole military-vs-local thing gets played out in military towns all over the country.

[kimo55]

...ah, the famous contemporary cliche and myth:
It's a melting pot here. and everyone gets along in this pot. and everyone shows and extends to you the distinctive, exclusive aloha spirit, each moment of the day.
nope. Nice image, but that's a product of years of ad agency propaganda.

You are familiar with the rat tail biting syndrome aren't you?
Put a few rats in a large box. watch 'em all get along. Put many rats in a smaller box, watch them TRY to get along, but soon, we see them biting each other's tails. What we got here on this island, is a prime example of the growing tail biting syndrome. This finite land mass covered with too many people, supposedly governed by growth oriented politicians with the idea, that we can overpopulate and over develop this fragile land, implement foreign laws, rules, regulations, lifestyles, living parameters, traffic systems all foreign to these delicate Hawaiian islands, previously owned and populated by a people that highly respected each and every aspect of nature, the land, and all it's activity; volcanic, the ocean, rain, the reef system, the plants, the animals...
Look how this has been usurped by the foreigners. Now, ask yerself. WHY should anyone expect everyone to be showing your idea of aloha spirit each day.
Or why wouldn't you expect to all of a sudden be dissapointed to learn, to realise and think to yourself: "maybe it's not the paradise it was marketed to me as, maybe I won't after all, grace the islands with my presence?"

[kimo55]

Hawai'i isn't unique in this respect; this whole military-vs-local thing gets played out in military towns all over the country.

....ah, but it's a little stronger here. And the implications are different.
Ask Haunani Kay Trask.
There are many that have very strong feelings re; the military presence on Hawaiian islands. Many feel, among other things, the Military should pay rent to Hawaiians for the land use and its destruction. Many don't like the fact Waianae is being used (and has been for quite a while), as a Nuclear Arms Storage facility.
yes. it's not so much racial as it is cultural.

[Glen Miyashiro]

....ah, but it's a little stronger here. And the implications are different. Ask Haunani Kay Trask.Do you think that filters down to schoolkids, though? My impression is that kids don't pay that much attention to politics.

[kimo55]

Do you think that filters down to schoolkids, though? My impression is that kids don't pay that much attention to politics.

Politics?
POLITICS!?
We don' need no steenkin' politics!

[pzarquon]

If you look at military dependents in Hawai'i, you'll find some like our own Memorylane who love it here, but I think that you'd probably find quite a few who hate it and can't wait to get back to the States.This isn't quite relevant, but I always marvel at my wife and her brother. Both grew up military brats, moved often up and down the east coast. One (my wife) moved here and fell in love with the islands. The other (her brother) got stationed here, and quite frankly can't wait to be shipped somewhere else. Talking to him, even, it's clear the discomfort is a mixture of many things.

"Culture clash" is as much "haole-vs.-Pacific Islander" as it is "military vs. civillian" - the military might seem fairly segregated, but compared to other "military towns," I think people stationed here have to adapt more to civilian influence than elsewhere, where military people can live their whole lives inside a military bubble. So I agree that some of this stuff is universal.

There's also the fact that some people want to come here, while others are put here. The aspect of choice in where you call home is pretty fundamental in what your attitude is going to be.
"maybe it's not the paradise it was marketed to me as, maybe I won't after all, grace the islands with my presence?"
Well, like I said, Hawaii ain't the happy rainbow of warm fuzzies we're sometimes made out to be, but I think we do a lot of things right... and I think we have a lot to offer the rest of the world, and that conversely, the rest of the world can bring a lot of good to Hawaii.

I don't discourage people from coming to Hawaii, I just like to make sure they come with both eyes open. And I sure as hell am glad my wife decided to get on that plane over a decade ago!

[kimo55]

I don't discourage people from coming to Hawaii, I just like to make sure they come with both eyes open.


yep. Both eyes wide open, and the one mouth firmly shut.
One thing islanders get tired of is the loudmouth pushy overly opinionated braggart blowhard tourist that just has gotta tell everyone how it's done on the mainland. And give their unsolicited opinion and spew their assumptions, commands, demands, ridicule, vitriol, sarcasm and denigration on each and every thing here. Because it is different and foreign to them. And therefore, inferior.
(it's not just tourists. We see this underlying current in many venues; magazine, newspaper, talk show, comedian coverage and travelogues on Hawaii among others; where that little smarmy haole girl, I think samantha brown is it? whenever she reviews the islands.)
This is one of the many sources of anti-foreigner/mainlander sentiments felt here.
(of course, there are exceptions to the rule. But this personification of the stereotypical average tourist is reinforced daily by so many examples.)

[pzarquon]

One thing islanders get tired of is the loudmouth pushy overly opinionated braggart blowhard tourist that just has gotta tell everyone how it's done on the mainland. And give their unsolicited opinion and spew their assumptions, commands, demands, ridicule, vitriol, sarcasm and denigration on each and every thing here.Ah, yes, as opposed to the respectful, humble, modest, earnest, and honest enlightened methods of expression exhibited by locals, right Kimo? :p

[kimo55]

Ah, yes, as opposed to the respectful, humble, modest, earnest, and honest enlightened methods of expression exhibited by locals, right Kimo? :p


azzrite, brah! It's da angels against da debbils, erry time.
da pure against da profane. da black against da white.
(oops. block that metaphor!)

[hkplayer]

Thanks for sharing all your views with me. I suppose the marketing of aloha and even ohana did stay with me from my first which was also my most recent stay (10 years ago) but perhaps even back then those philosophies were in stronger force. However, I am sure there are many more things that draw people to the islands and hopefully that will never stop my love for them. Racism and military conflicts seem to never end, no matter where we are, unfortunately.

[kimo55]

aloha and even ohana ...

there are original 'forms' of this that cements kama'aina and is evident, "behind the scenes" never to be viewed by "prying eyes". And it has for decades, antedating the HVCB, and Disney, with their Lolo and stitch cartoons, appropriating the concepts.

oh yea. Disney.
I just love Eisner, their animation mill, churning out colorful versions of other's cultures;
the Disney touch on Africa and that damned "makoombaya baton ta daa" song...
and
"ohana means no child gets left behind". lovely. a double negative.

[1stwahine]

*****FIVE STARS! I truly enjoyed this thread. ;)

[Miulang]

Some people describe what is happening with regard to racial tensions in Hawai'i as a population in denial of the problem.

We make jokes (calling each other names, "e.g. "You Portagee!") to try to defuse the situation, and the article points out that because there are so many "hapa" people in Hawai'i, those people will take whatever "side" of them is important in that particular situation.

Ignorance is what exacerbates intolerance. If the local kids who were giving the military kids a hard time could understand that most of those kids had parents who were in Iraq, would they still give those kids the same hard time? Would the military kids rag on the local kids if they understood that their mainland attitudes sometimes are pilau?

Miulang

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/03/ln/ln01p.html

[kimo55]

Some people describe what is happening with regard to racial tensions in Hawai'i as a population in denial of the problem.
Miulang



...and this article uses the m.p. word:
"It's supposed to be a melting pot, but at the same time you have these levels of people who feel they are being treated in ways that aren't fair."


reminds me of that cartoon in the New Yorker.
Guy sitting in a lawyer's office asking him:
"Life's not fair; who can I sue?"

[1stwahine]

Ok, now school violence has hit Waipahu. Is this one cultural or racial? Students says Police made the situation worse! AUWE! I pray it does't spread like wild fire to other schools!

[kimo55]

Some people describe what is happening with regard to racial tensions in Hawai'i as a population in denial of the problem.

Miulang

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/03/ln/ln01p.html


ya know, "in denial of the prob..." Saw that too in da pepah.
It's just the new politically correct, modern, dysfunctional, co-dependent hyper sensitive, litigious, non-accountability perspective on something we here for decades never considered any big thing. Now, this mainland dis-ease of the group soul/mind of society is growing to be a big thing. Another mainland problem transplanted to our islands.
(And journalists imply the likes of deLima exacerbate the problem by making light of it and not addressing it as some morbid cancerous plague)
Now, (we see reported often in papers) we have people, groups, associations... etc.. variously shouting:

"When will we start to HEAL the pain?"

"I am hurt! I am offended. It's not Fay-YURRR!"

"hey, I wanna join in too: I dun wanna be called 'haole'!"

"Why won't people take this verrryyy serious problem more seriously?"


O.K., people, collective whiners of the world: calm down, take a chill pill, have a few maitais, drink a twelve pack, pop da top on da fourty, drop a quaalude, pump some prozac down yer piehole, lite up a spleef, jump in a volcano... just, get over yerself.
Damn! Ya carry on as if you think yer the center of the gaw dayum universe, and you'll live forever. And lemme tellya. Yer not, and life is short. Too short for this sh*t.

[1stwahine]

O.K., people, collective whiners of the world: calm down, take a chill pill, have a few maitais, drink a twelve pack, pop da top on da fourty, drop a quaalude, pump some prozac down yer piehole, lite up a spleef, jump in a volcano... just, get over yerself.
Damn! Ya carry on as if you think yer the center of the gaw dayum universe, and you'll live forever. And lemme tellya. Yer not, and life is short. Too short for this sh*t.

WELL SAID! :D What The World needs now, Is LOVE, Sweet Love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of............ ;)

[Haken]

A Farrington High grad I know told me about how, at UH-Mānoa, she met an 'Iolani boy from Kailua who was embarrassingly naive and sheltered and asked her, wide-eyed, about all the gang violence in Kalihi. Really, they came from two different worlds. :(

Yeah, I get that all the time. I grew up in Kalihi (still works there) and there are people I know who "believes" they are from the better parts of town have told me they're afraid of commuting through Kalihi because they fear being carjacked or confronted by gangs.

Sure, there are places like KPT and MWH, but Kalihi isn't a ghetto by any stretch.