Tax Hike for Rail? [Archive] - HawaiiThreads.com

Miulang

February 9th, 2005, 08:18 AM

The real conundrum for residents and taxpayers of Hawai'i is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you don't want to fund light rail or some other form of public transportation and then don't use it once it's built, you will forever be doomed to griping about crowded roads and long commutes, which will result in your paying more for gas, frayed nerves and increase your blood pressure.

People of the East Coast consider public transportation as a fact of life because it's so crowded and costs more to live there. People on the West Coast have almost the same mentality as the people in Hawai'i, where we wouldn't be caught dead on a bus or train if we can drive our cars.

But for the public good, the voters in the State of Washington have approved funding for a regional light rail system and in the City of Seattle, we've approved expanding our monorail line three times over the last 8 years! Yes, it increases my property tax, but I think that's the price I pay for living in this city and wanting it to remain a good place to live. I would probably take a train to get to work (I commute 50 miles a day) to eliminate the cost of fuel and the hassles with traffic.

Using the excise tax as a way to pay for this is probably not the best way to go about it, though, because it most impacts the lower income people, although they would be the ones who would get the most benefit from it.

Miulang

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/09/ln/ln07p.html

Albert

February 9th, 2005, 09:03 AM

"Using the excise tax as a way to pay for this is probably not the best way to go about it"

Ain't that the truth.

Miulang

February 15th, 2005, 07:06 AM

Here's a very thoughtful piece by Advertiser Transportation report Mike Leidemann (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/15/ln/ln42pmike.html) about why public transportation, whether it benefits you directly or not, is a good idea. It's all about paying the price for living in a civilized society, something that many people are losing sight of as they burrow further into their own little coocoons.

If you have a car and use any of the State roads, remember that people who don't own cars helped pay for them. If you have kids in public school, remember that the people who don't have kids are helping educate them.

Miulang

pzarquon

February 15th, 2005, 11:33 AM

An excellent piece to make a basic point. Things are probably skewed overall against independently wealthy single people who don't drive, but... that's the cost of "government."

I'm not convinced an excise tax increase is the way to go (though just hiking it to 5 percent even, with exemptions for food and medicine, would certainly make day-to-day math easier!), but I know that a rail system will cost big bucks. Some way to assess people most likely to benefit would probably ease some of the "it won't help me" belly-aching. But once you start making fine adjustments like that, you're more likely to get complaints about exceptions.

A mileage tax? Turning the airport segment of H-1 into a toll road? Not attractive options.

Miulang

February 26th, 2005, 07:35 AM

Whether you use it or not, whether it will benefit you or not, the residents of the City and County of Honolulu will get a light rail system (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/26/ln/ln16p.html) to ease traffic congestion. The only issue left is how to pay for it. If it's not through an increase in excise taxes (nobody's favorite) or increased gasoline, property or hotel taxes, the Legislature has to come up with a way to fund the project.

Depending on what the City and County of Honolulu do, other counties might follow suit. All islands need some form of scheduled public transportation to help ease the horrible traffic congestion.

Miulang

mel

February 26th, 2005, 08:52 AM

http://www.smallbusinesshawaii.com/images/nonewtax.gif http://www.smallbusinesshawaii.com/images/nonewtax.gif http://www.smallbusinesshawaii.com/images/nonewtax.gif

WHAT: Protest against the City's disinformational meeting.

WHY: We need to protest this shibai of a 25% hike in the GE tax rate from 4 to 5%.

WHEN: Monday, February 28, 2005, meet at 7:00am, then stay as long as you can up to 8:30 am.

WHERE: Memorial Auditorium, which is the brick building adjacent to City Hall on the Diamond Head side.

SIGNS: We will have signs, or you can make your own.

MORE INFORMATION: http://www.honolulutraffic.com

State legislators are talking about the tax hike bill as a Home Rule issue for the counties. That is pure shibai; the counties can raise money through the gas tax and property taxes. State legislators just want to make it easy for Councilmembers. And the money cannot be used for repairing POTHOLES?

The Tax Foundation has calculated the tax hike effect as $900 annually for an average family of four. This much money is needed since the feds will only finance $500 million, or 19% of its cost.

This is a Summit that the City is having as an Informational Briefing for members of the State Legislature, Business and Community Leaders, and media representatives. We are protesting both the tax and that our suggestions, that are working elsewhere, for reducing traffic congestion, are not on the agenda. Is this open and transparent?

Other sponsors are OMPO and a new outfit called CBT (the Committee for Balanced Transportation) a same old, same old group run by a collection of City employees and City consultants at least one of whom has been fined for illegal campaign contributions.

This might be known in the future as "The Gods Must Be Crazy Summit."

Please let us know as soon as possible if you will be here with us and who you have convinced to take part.

Call 545-4495 or email to: info@honolulutraffic.com

Mel adds: Liberals, rail transit supporters, Robin Hoods, tax and spend red diaper doper babies need not apply.

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Caution: This is a liberal inundation zone.
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Konaguy

February 26th, 2005, 01:24 PM

Mel on this situation I have to agree with you. I don't want the GET to be
increased to pay for rail transit. They need to find other solutions to traffic
mess than spending billions on rail transit.

Miulang

February 26th, 2005, 05:10 PM

Here's one onerous solution guaranteed to make people wish they had public transportation: Make your gas tax double what it is today and then see how many people start thinking about taking public transportation. Once gas prices hit $4.00 or so a gallon, then people will stop and think about it. Those who are well off will still drive their SUVs (mainly because they can afford the gas), but the average Honolulu driver is gonna be huhu. Oh wait, your Legislature just passed a gas cap, didn't they? Well, forget about gas taxes subsidizing this light rail system, then.

It's already a done deal: the Feds and your State government want more public transportation. You guys just have to fight over how you're going to pay for it.

Up here, we're being taxed up the ying yang for a new light rail system for King Co. AND a monorail system for Seattle. Even though I would probably use neither (I work about 25 miles away from home and they aren't planning to put a light rail terminal anywhere near my workplace, so I would have to bike to work from the terminal or take another bus to get to work), I still voted for the taxes and I'm not complaining about it either. The State has also put together a rule that says "x" amount of your workers either have to be on flextime or take public transportation or your company gets assessed higher taxes to pay for roads (I think it may also be a Federal mandate). I work 10 hour days so I get every Friday off, and that's how I helped my company qualify for commuter tax credits. Yes, it's pretty tough doing business in Washington, too.

Miulang

mel

February 26th, 2005, 09:21 PM

Miulang

February 27th, 2005, 07:04 AM

It's easy for you to advocate more taxes for Hawaii because 1. you don't live here and 2. you won't have to pay Hawaii taxes as long as you don't come here.

I am not surprised a bleeding heart liberal like you will advocate and actually vote for more taxes. I guess you have extremely deep pockets and can afford to absorb the increased cost of living government unleashes on you.

More new taxes are not good for Hawaii. Liberals don't get this. They can easily absorb the higher cost of living through more taxes.

Yeah, and when I fly to Maui tomorrow and pick up my rental car, these are the taxes I will pay: $27.00 "Hawaii rental surcharge", "concessionaire/permitee fee", $13.77, and a "sales tax" of $7.65, or a total of $48.42 --a little more than 21% of the total bill. Good thing I'm staying with my parents, because if I had to stay at a hotel, the State and Maui County would tack another 25% or so to that hotel bill for various fees and taxes.

I pay a lot of taxes up here. Last year, I paid about $1,300 in property taxes. Our sales tax rate (your GES) for this county is 8.8%. We have about the highest gas taxes in the country. I don't have extremely deep pockets, but I make enough to be comfortable. The salary I make would also keep me comfortable in Hawai'i, if I didn't have to pay for housing. Mel, I'm not getting a free ride up here. I support public transportation because without it, lots of people who don't have cars wouldn't be able to get to work; those who are environmentally aware would hop into their cars and further pollute the environment. I supported a property tax increase so my local library could be rebuilt (it's gorgeous now, and widely used). I voted against a referendum calling for a rollback of property taxes because, frankly, I like my quality of life up here and I don't see how reducing taxes would enhance my life. I'm mad that this State's $2 billion biennial revenue gap is causing my local fire station to have to lay off a firefighter and make the firefighters who are left behind to be put into a more precarious situation when they are out on a call.

It's a social tax...the price of living in a civilized society. You free marketers are all about me-me-me-me, and "not in my back yard". Unfortunately, that ain't the way things work in the "real" world. Also, please don't go calling me a liberal. Back in my college days you could have called me that, maybe even called me a radical (after all, I did belong to the Students for a Democractic Society for about a month, in UTAH, of all places). I am now a pragmatic moderate realist, and I vote my conscience, rather than any political ideology because, frankly, there is no difference between the mainstream Dems and Republicans right now. And as for the neocons, they will have their comeuppance in 2006.

Miulang

P.S. Heehee! I just looked up the definition of a "liberal" and look what I found. Check out the second definition. Gee, Mel, that sure has hell sounds like you! So you're a liberal too (at the other end of the spectrum)
1. liberal, progressive -- (a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties)
2. liberal -- (a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets)

mel

February 27th, 2005, 08:11 AM

I knew I was going to be slammed by you Miulang. What is wrong with looking out for ourselves first? Nothing. We know what to do with our personal funds more than what government does with the funds they consistently take away from us.

Call me a liberal or whatever (I consider myself a fiscal conservative) but then again it is all a term.

Moderate or whatever, your long string of posts here at HawaiiThreads are generally anti-American, anti-business, pro-tax (take more money away from individuals so people cannot afford to live comfortably but instead always have to sacrifice personal income for socialistic, expensive government programs such as fixed rail).

Hawaii has enough social taxes perpetuated by 40+ years of Democrat party rule in the legislature (still continuing) and the executive branch (up to 2002). We have enough taxes, and you know it. Hawaii citizens cannnot continually to afford to pay more.

But you Democrats, liberals and moderates leaning toward more taxes (you) just don't understand how painful it is to have to give up more of our personal income to involuntarily pay for more government, more programs and whatever you liberals love to perpetuate on us who are just trying to hold on to what we have.

Yeah, and when I fly to Maui tomorrow and pick up my rental car, these are the taxes I will pay: $27.00 "Hawaii rental surcharge", "concessionaire/permitee fee", $13.77, and a "sales tax" of $7.65, or a total of $48.42 --a little more than 21% of the total bill.....

There you go. Why do you bitch about these taxes when liberals and moderates that you probably support are the very ones who levied these taxes through legislation upon us? It was the Democrats who voted in the car rental surchage, the general excise tax and the transient accomodations tax upon us through the years. We did not have some of these taxes a while back.

When is enough enough???

Last year the Democrat legislature socked it to us with the damn bottle tax.

This year the following tax increases are being proposed:

* General Excise Tax Increase of 25% to pay for mass transit that we cannot afford.

* The Democrat Mayor of the City and County proposing to increase sewer fees because the previous Democrat mayor raped the sewer fund (used for maintenance and upgrades of the system) to build fancy smancy monuments and unneeded projects for his legacy throughout the city.

* The possibility of all residents of older condos having to be forced to install very expensive fire sprinkler upgrades while property taxes still increase and only a miniscule tax credit is given to offset the expense.

* The possibility of more taxes and more fees coming down the pipeline in future years.

Hawaii's taxpayer incomes are not increasing by 25% or even less to pay for these new taxes and fees.

When is enough enough? When do we say "STOP RAPING OUR WALLETS"?

I am sick of the cumulative effect tax increases that are constantly perpetuated by the Democrats, liberals and misguided moderates. It is time for us to stop the bleeding today. Save our funds, put it to our own personal use. There is nothing wrong with thinking "me first". Nothing.

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Caution: This is a liberal inundation zone.

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Konaguy

February 27th, 2005, 11:15 AM

Mel, after I read your latest posting if we had a school tax like they have
on parts of the mainland you'd probably be complaining why do I have to
pay this tax, I don't have kids.

I'm not trying to knock you, but there is things we have to pay for the society overall.No man is island, your not the only person who lives here. There is billions of different people who live on this earth. Your opinion is not better than other peoples. Nor is other peoples opinions better than yours.
But it does help to listen to other peoples view.It is simply not beneficial
to rip other peoples opinion just because they are a liberal, a communist etc.

It is frankly really sad to see your unwilling to listen or even justify your
views. You just simply bash the conflicting view as liberal. I know your
probably going to say I'm an idiot or I'm lecturing you again. But I have
noticed a very obvious pattern with your postings.

Miulang

February 27th, 2005, 01:53 PM

There you go. Why do you bitch about these taxes when liberals and moderates that you probably support are the very ones who levied these taxes through legislation upon us? It was the Democrats who voted in the car rental surchage, the general excise tax and the transient accomodations tax upon us through the years. We did not have some of these taxes a while back.

Oh Mel, you rightest LIBERAL, you! :p I wasn't complaining about the taxes I'm paying on my rental car; I only used it as an example of how I, as a "tourist", am supporting the State of Hawai'i and Mau'i County by paying a 21% excise fee for the right to drive on your roads. If I had stayed in a hotel, I would be giving the State and Maui County 25% to use however they choose to use it; I have no say in how they use what they collect from me. The residents of the State of Hawai'i and the cities and counties are the ones who have the power to decide where that money goes, so rather than just bitching about it or resigning yourselves to your high taxes, you should continue to do what you're doing: trying to organize people to stop what you call the "madness" of taxation.

I'm telling you, whether you like it or want it or not, you WILL have more public transportation shoved down your throat, mainly because more people think about the public good for their community than you do. Your only battle will be how to fund it.

OK, you say that the liberals and moderates are taxing the hell out of people so they can't live a decent life. Well, what about the neocons taking away American citizens' basic freedoms (as in the Bill of Rights)? Ever since the current Administration was elected the first time (and especially after 9/11), there have been constant assaults on personal freedom so that everytime you turn around, you now have Big Brother watching you. Do you like that? I don't. I am not anti-American (no moreso than you are), but I am certainly the loyal opposition, which is what you need in a free society, because if everybody thought the way you did, we wouldn't have a democracy anymore, would we?

Miulang

Miulang

February 27th, 2005, 04:39 PM

BTW, Mel, two of the examples that you gave above are good examples of what happens when people aren't watching the wolf that's guarding the henhouse:

* The Democrat Mayor of the City and County proposing to increase sewer fees because the previous Democrat mayor raped the sewer fund (used for maintenance and upgrades of the system) to build fancy smancy monuments and unneeded projects for his legacy throughout the city. Something has to be done about the aging infrastructure in Honolulu. I just read this morning that there was a 3rd sewer leak in Niu Valley (the 3rd this month) because the pipe is corroded. Why isn't there a hew and cry to indict Harris for thievery? Why are you blaming Mufi for trying to correct the problem? Would you rather continue having sewer breaks constantly that make people huhu because of the traffic diversions? do you think if a Republican was elected that your sewers wouldn't break?

* The possibility of all residents of older condos having to be forced to install very expensive fire sprinkler upgrades while property taxes still increase and only a miniscule tax credit is given to offset the expense. I'm sorry that your State government (or maybe it's the City's problem and therefore only Mufi's administration's problem now) isn't giving building owners a bigger tax break to fix fire code violations. I don't know if you remember the MGM Grand Fire in Las Vegas about 10 years ago? How many people got killed in those high rise buildings? Do you live in one of those older condo buildings? It's a very important thing to keep people safe from fires. It's also not my fault that property taxes in Hawai'i are rising at an accelerated rate. Blame that on the desirability of your location and the greedy developers who want to make a fast killing in the market and then leave town with their profits. If this bothers you, then go lobby your legislature for greater tax relief for fire safety upgrades. Don't just kvetch about it. I'm on the board of a homeowners association, too, and I know we have to follow the fire codes. My fellow Board members and I are responsible for the lives of occupants of 44 units in our building. I certainly wouldn't want to be caught in a multistory building without active fire sensors, and in a high rise, a sprinkler system is probably required because your fire dept. probably doesn't have ladders that can go high up enough the side of a building to effectively fight a high rise fire or rescue anyone. If the tax breaks aren't available, most capital projects are amortized over a number of years, and that can be taken off the individual unit owners' income tax bill. If you truly mean a condo and not a hotel or apartment building, then all the owners are responsible for the safety of the building and its occupants. Owners get assessed for things like new roofs and elevators that are in common use, so everyone pays for a share.

Miulang

mel

February 27th, 2005, 09:41 PM

Just as I expected. Another slam from the liberal leaning moderate tax and spend Miulang. And another lecture from Aaron, even though I never addressed anything he posted here..... Geez. Liberals just hate conservatives and anyone who wants to keep their own money in their own wallet.

Repeat, there is nothing wrong with thinking about ourselves first, especially when it comes to our money that we all bust ass to work for.

Our wallets and bank accounts are forever doomed in Hawaii as long as the agenda perpetuated by liberals and Democrats continue to dominate Hawaii politics.

That train tax makes me absolutely sick.

Every fiscally conservative opinion is slammed by the maniacal tax and spend liberals and their moderate friends. That is why there are hardly any conservatives on this board. They are slammed by the liberal majority who pepper the politically charged topics with their ongoing speil. This is a liberal inundation zone for sure. All they want is government to take away more of your personal income.

Take away, take away, take away, take away. It's sickening.

We already pay enough taxes to support schools, roads, parks and other government services.

None of us can afford more taxes to pay for fixed rail that only 10% of Oahu's population will use and no one on the neighbor islands will benefit from. Hell, people in urban Honolulu, the Windward side and North Shore will not benefit one iota from the rail tax.

It is sickening. At least the taxes for schools get spread around to all of the public schools in every district throughout the state. The rail tax only benefits a sliver of the population within a set corridor. No one else.

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Caution: This is a liberal inundation zone.

Miulang

February 28th, 2005, 03:22 AM

Oh Mel, I'm not slamming you. Can't you see that I AGREE with you about the malfeasance of your former Mayor? Can't you see that I symphathize with all the people who are being taxed senseless? I don't advocate raising taxes for the sake of raising taxes. But you give me a coherent plan to fix your sewers without increasing your sewer taxes and I'd agree with you on that, too.

Miulang

Linkmeister

February 28th, 2005, 11:49 AM

Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming have no income tax. Washington, as Miulang tells us, has made up for that loss in other ways. Texas isn't noted for its education and health care. Alaska, Wyoming and SD have tiny populations. Nevada gets the bulk of its income (I'm guessing) from taxes on casinos. Florida I don't know about; I can only guess it's got humongous room taxes on hotels to make up for the shortfall.

Mel, we all feel squeezed by taxes, but do you really want us to be Texas, Wyoming or South Dakota?

mel

February 28th, 2005, 08:45 PM

Can't you see that I symphathize with all the people who are being taxed senseless? I don't advocate raising taxes for the sake of raising taxes.

You are advocating the rail tax (GE Tax Increase) which impacts everyone in Hawaii in some way or another.

That coupled with the increased sewer fee (tax) on top of the taxes we already pay makes the cost of living more expensive. This is what you tax and spend liberals want? To make our cost of living more expensive?

That seems to be the agenda. Build this, tax us more. Build that, tax us more. Even without building you liberals still want to levy more taxes upon the population.

Enough is enough.

Rail... do we need it? NO!
Can we afford it? Definitely not!
Will the city be able to maintain it? I seriously doubt it.

Rail will only create another expensive boondoggle that Hawaii taxpayers cannot afford to live with.

Stop the tax train....

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Caution: This is a liberal inundation zone.

mel

February 28th, 2005, 08:51 PM

Mel, we all feel squeezed by taxes, but do you really want us to be Texas, Wyoming or South Dakota?

What you tax and spend liberals want to do is squeeze even more taxes OUT of us! We should be entitled to keep most of the money we work for to pay for our personal expenses, needs and wants..... not piss it away to even more taxes that are being proposed by the liberal Democrats who run the bulk of the state government and much of the city and county of Honolulu.

Keep our money in our own pockets is what we need. Not more money pissed away on rail transit that no one will use or bottles that no one is bothering to return.

Enough is enough. Hawaii cannot afford another tax increase. Liberals have to learn how to stop raping our wallets.

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Caution: This is a liberal inundation zone.

Miulang

March 10th, 2005, 08:15 AM

I think you're selective about which tax increases you are against, Mel. You already stated that if the GET was increased to support the 24 failing public schools, you wouldn't object to that. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't object to the increases in sewer taxes because without sewer pipes being repaired when they burst it creates a public health problem, and you can't go back to cesspools tanks because, frankly, the Feds would come after you after April 5. And if a sewer pipe burst in front of your house, would you want to pay for that out of your own pocket?

If you had Bainum as Mayor instead of Hanneman, would he be making the same kinds of hard choices Mufi has had to make about funding only those things which were essential and not just "nice to have", which is what the Harris administration didn't do?

Once the cost of gas tops $3/gallon for Hawai'i possibly later this year, will you continue to drive your car? When gas prices rise, the poorer people are the ones who suffer first. If they can't drive their cars because they can't afford the gas, how will they get to work? Do you really want your "booming economy" to tank? I was reading the Advertiser Letters to the Editor the other day and there were people complaining about bus service from Hawaii Kai (sometimes 2 hour waits for buses). If bus service is this bad now, what will the city do to encourage more public transportation usage?

Miulang

Glen Miyashiro

March 10th, 2005, 08:18 AM

Or Lillian Hong, for that matter. Mel, would it be better to leave the roads as they are? If you were In Charge, what would you do to improve the traffic situation?

mel

March 10th, 2005, 05:55 PM

I think you're selective about which tax increases you are against, Mel. You already stated that if the GET was increased to support the 24 failing public schools, you wouldn't object to that.

Where the fuck did I state that? I am against all and every new tax increase period. Don't you ever put words in my mouth!!!!!! :mad:

It is so damn easy for you Miulang to advocate tax increases that you will never pay because you don't live here in Hawaii. I don't give a damn about the taxes you pay in Oregon or wherever it is you are from.

All you tax and spend liberals know is to take away more, more, more, more and more away from personal incomes.

No one's personal income suddenly inceases by 25% to pay for a damn train that only 8% of the population will use.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't object to the increases in sewer taxes because without sewer pipes being repaired when they burst it creates a public health problem, and you can't go back to cesspools tanks because, frankly, the Feds would come after you after April 5.

And what makes you assume that I won't object to this??? I do. I will be complaining against this and placing 100% of the blame on the neglected sewers to the Harris administration which has driven the city to near bankruptcy. Now the current administration has to pay the piper, and well we all have to.

SHIT HAPPENS and I hate it. Shit, sewers, taxes, liberals, Democrats.... their tax and spend policies, fiscal discipline are all the same... one big sewer pipe that our personal incomes are sinking into every year.

If you had Bainum as Mayor instead of Hanneman, would he be making the same kinds of hard choices Mufi has had to make about funding only those things which were essential and not just "nice to have", which is what the Harris administration didn't do?

What the hell makes you assume that I voted for Bainum? I supported neither of the mayoral candidates and turned in a blank ballot on that race because both of them advocated rail transit.

Rail transit = more taxes raped out of taxpayer wallets.

Liberals don't care about people's personal funds. All they want to do is take it away and fund big ticket "nice to have" projects like rail.

Do we need it? NO

Can we afford it? NO

Can we maintain it? NO

Once the cost of gas tops $3/gallon for Hawai'i possibly later this year, will you continue to drive your car?

While I and the majority of motorists will continue to complain about the cost of a gallon of gas, the bottom line is that we will keep on driving our cars. Cars = convenience. Cars = independence. I paid for my car, keep it maintained, pay for the insurance, the high gas prices, the taxes... so I will continue using it until it is time for a new one or when I die, whichever comes first.

America is a country built on the success of the automobile. We will not change.

Those people who think the vast majority of people will abandon their vehicles in favor of mass transit are sickly delusional.

Do you really want your "booming economy" to tank?

Of course not. But you and the tax and spend liberals certainly want it by taking away personal income via more taxes from individuals and families to fund expensive public works projects such as rail will certainly contribute to our economy's decline. Business, especially small business cannot afford to take the continued hits by liberal Democrat policies... increased taxes, higher minimum wage laws, more mandates, fees, costs, etc.

Hawaii's reputation as a bad place to do busienss and a tax hell is certain to continue when the GET is increased. Mark my words.
________________________________

Liberals want to take away more of your personal funds. Always.

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mel

March 10th, 2005, 06:02 PM

Or Lillian Hong, for that matter. Mel, would it be better to leave the roads as they are? If you were In Charge, what would you do to improve the traffic situation?

Lillian Hong had no mathematical chance of ever winning the mayor's race. Yes, I did vote for her in the primary, but that does not mean I would have voted for her in the general should she would have suddenly garnered a huge chunk of the vote and went up against either Mufi or Duke. She's always advocating better bus service. I suspect she would support rail and the onerous tax increases that would entail.

I am not in charge, so I don't have to answer your silly question.

It is the tax and spend liberals who are in charge and everyone who voted for them is responsible for the pain they will unleash upon the taxpayers.

________________________________

Liberals want to take away more of your personal funds. Always.

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Miulang

March 10th, 2005, 06:21 PM

Where the fuck did I state that? I am against all and every new tax increase period. Don't you ever put words in my mouth!!!!!! :mad:

It is so damn easy for you Miulang to advocate tax increases that you will never pay because you don't live here in Hawaii. I don't give a damn about the taxes you pay in Oregon or wherever it is you are from.

All you tax and spend liberals know is to take away more, more, more, more and more away from personal incomes.

No one's personal income suddenly inceases by 25% to pay for a damn train that only 8% of the population will use.

And what makes you assume that I won't object to this??? I do. I will be complaining against this and placing 100% of the blame on the neglected sewers to the Harris administration which has driven the city to near bankruptcy. Now the current administration has to pay the piper, and well we all have to.

SHIT HAPPENS and I hate it. Shit, sewers, taxes, liberals, Democrats.... their tax and spend policies, fiscal discipline are all the same... one big sewer pipe that our personal incomes are sinking into every year.

What the hell makes you assume that I voted for Bainum? I supported neither of the mayoral candidates and turned in a blank ballot on that race because both of them advocated rail transit.

Rail transit = more taxes raped out of taxpayer wallets.

Liberals don't care about people's personal funds. All they want to do is take it away and fund big ticket "nice to have" projects like rail.

Do we need it? NO

Can we afford it? NO

Can we maintain it? NO

While I and the majority of motorists will continue to complain about the cost of a gallon of gas, the bottom line is that we will keep on driving our cars. Cars = convenience. Cars = independence. I paid for my car, keep it maintained, pay for the insurance, the high gas prices, the taxes... so I will continue using it until it is time for a new one or when I die, whichever comes first.

America is a country built on the success of the automobile. We will not change.

Those people who think the vast majority of people will abandon their vehicles in favor of mass transit are sickly delusional.

Of course not. But you and the tax and spend liberals certainly want it by taking away personal income via more taxes from individuals and families to fund expensive public works projects such as rail will certainly contribute to our economy's decline. Business, especially small business cannot afford to take the continued hits by liberal Democrat policies... increased taxes, higher minimum wage laws, more mandates, fees, costs, etc.

Hawaii's reputation as a bad place to do busienss and a tax hell is certain to continue when the GET is increased. Mark my words.

Hanakokolele! Mel DA MODERATOR wen go use pilau kine words! Somebody like to give him one chill pill or something? When I move back to Hawaii in about 5 years, I'll be in the same boat you are in. So yes, I know what you're saying. But Mel, you have NEVER given anyone any alternatives to getting out of the current fix your city and county are in. All you do is complain.

People are getting tired of your complaining without giving alternatives (and not increasing taxes is NOT an alternative because the money's gotta come from somewhere to maintain even the current bus routes and your corroding sewer pipes). You REALLY would pay, out of your own pocket, to fix a broken sewer main if it burst in front of your house? Wow, you're way richer than I am.

What do you want your City and County government and the State Legislature to do? Do you want them all take pay cuts to help balance the budget? I honestly want to know if you do have alternatives to suggest. I and everyone else on the forum will listen if you JUST GIVE US SOME IDEAS on alternatives. Your mantra of "all taxes are evil" and "damned those Democrats and tax and and spend liberals" is wearing thin. Constantly griping about something without proposing something better to take its place turns more people off than just about anything else I know.

Miulang

mel

March 10th, 2005, 06:42 PM

Hanakokolele! Mel DA MODERATOR wen go use pilau kine words! Somebody like to give him one chill pill or something? When I move back to Hawaii in about 5 years, I'll be in the same boat you are in. So yes, I know what you're saying. But Mel, you have NEVER given anyone any alternatives to getting out of the current fix your city and county are in. All you do is complain.

I have every right to complain as much as you have every right to trumpet and praise your liberal tax and spend agenda. It is not my job to offer alternatives because I am not an elected official and therefore have no power to implement any solution.

I am working in my own way to keep taxes down. I don't have to elaborate.

As for the swearing, I hate it when someone like you accuses me of supporting a tax increase when I haven't come out and support any tax increase on this forum or anywhere. I haven't made much comment about educational issues here, if any.

I remember when HawaiiThreads was started, I thought there would be a built in parsing routine that would automatically delete swear words to #$^&*!$* symbols... I guess that option is not implemented. Ryan?????

People are getting tired of your complaining without giving alternatives (and not increasing taxes is NOT an alternative because the money's gotta come from somewhere to maintain even the current bus routes and your corroding sewer pipes).

And I am sure people are sick and tired of your constant posts regarding WalMart, the Iraqi War, and your continual Bush bashing in the other topics. Everyone has a freaggin' agenda.

Mine is to keep personal income in our own pockets. You and the rest of the liberals will never ever understand that. All you want to do is take away. More, more, more, more, more money out of people's pockets.

Your mantra of "all taxes are evil" and "damned those Democrats and tax and and spend liberals" is wearing thin.

Hey guess what? Am I holding a gun to your head forcing you to read my stuff? I don't think so. You can simply ignore my posts and not respond.

There are other topics which you can entertain yourself with instead of reading my posts.

________________________________

Liberals want to take away more of your personal funds. Always.
http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/notax-s.gif

mel

March 10th, 2005, 08:32 PM

No Tax Hike For Light Rail (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?4350508b-2083-40e1-85e8-fc86ef578fe4)

As posted to HawaiiReporter.com (http://www.hawaiireporter.com)

Raising taxes for transit is bad news for Hawaii's economy. Residents already face the fourth-highest state and local government tax burden in the nation and this burden will only grow heavier if the state excise tax is raised to fund light rail. Perhaps even more harmful than the immediate impact of higher taxes is that by saddling taxpayers with the costs of constructing and maintaining a new government transportation boondoggle, the Legislature is setting taxpayers up for even heavier tax burdens into the future.

You can read the entire article at this link. (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?4350508b-2083-40e1-85e8-fc86ef578fe4)

________________________________

Liberals want to take away more of your personal funds. Always.

http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/notax-s.gif

mel

March 10th, 2005, 08:43 PM

Top 8 Myths About the Rail Planned For Honolulu (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?5135f8ce-dcaa-4f74-acfd-c6dc9f1b3f23)

As posted to HawaiiReporter.com (http://www.hawaiireporter.com)

* No rail line anywhere is doing anything to reduce traffic congestion

* We are the 56th largest urban area in the U.S. and a clear majority of those larger than us have no rail line.

* From 1980-2000 only one U.S. urban area of the 22 with a rail line increased the percentage of commuters using public transportation and that was San Diego with a minuscule rise from 3.3 percent to 3.4 percent.

* So-called "rapid transit" is slow averaging only 22.5 mph whereas uncongested HOTways operate at free-flowing highway speeds of 55-60 mph.

* In addition to federal funding, rail transit construction will need local funding of $2.1 billion whereas a HOTway would need only $300 million. That is the difference between a tax increase and no tax increase.

* Rail transit will need $57 million in increased operating costs versus only $10 million for the HOTway.

In short, judging from results, both nationally and locally, we should not be placing any faith in public transportation to help in relieving traffic congestion.

We must remember that only about 8 percent of Honolulu’s commuter traffic is by transit and trying to solve a 100 percent problem by focusing on the least important element of that problem is not too smart. To solve the traffic congestion problem you have to focus on the vast majority of it, which is the auto and truck traffic and the highways. That is where the action is.

The Alliance for Traffic Improvement (http://www.honolulutraffic.com) advocates a HOT tollway.

________________________________

Liberals want to take away more of your personal funds. Always.

http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/notax-s.gif

Miulang

March 11th, 2005, 07:24 AM

See, Mel? Now that you've given folks some facts, you've gained some credibility. That's all I was trying to get out of you. Maybe after reading what you posted above from the Hawaii Reporter, you'll get more people to agree with you! Besides, I'm the one who started this thread, so of course I have to read what's in it! :)

Miulang

mel

March 11th, 2005, 07:42 AM

I don't need another lecture.

Glen Miyashiro

March 11th, 2005, 07:46 AM

Well, what do you know, an alternative! These Alliance for Traffic Improvement folks have a plan, which I assume Mel likes. I'll have to look into this HOTway idea of theirs.

Miulang

March 11th, 2005, 05:38 PM

The US House of Representatives just approved a transportation bill (http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/4276625/detail.html) that will bring Hawai'i $32 million in highway money that the State badly needs. Among the items scheduled for funding include $7 million for repairs to the H-1, $3 million to widen the Queen Kaahumanu Highway on the Big Island, and $3 million for another bypass on Kauai. The money is also supposed to be used for construction of a light rail system in Honolulu, although no specific amount was given.

This means that the State and City and County governments are going to have to ante up some money from their budgets too, since most federal funding is contingent upon the State contributing a portion of money too.

Miulang

mel

March 11th, 2005, 09:39 PM

HOTway Costs Far Less, Carries Far More (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?4bb578f8-ee0a-4b5d-b280-b6bb64f14a44)

As posted to HawaiiReporter.com (http://www.hawaiireporter.com)

(emphasis added)

Do we need it? Can we afford? Can we maintain it? Those are the right questions and should be answered by tough-minded financial analysis rather than wishful thinking.

The National Tax Foundation’s Business Tax Climate Index rates Hawaii as the worst state in the Union. And we are already the fourth highest taxed state per capita in the nation. Can the average hard-working taxpayer with two jobs afford an increase of $900 a year?

Read the complete piece
at this link. (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?4bb578f8-ee0a-4b5d-b280-b6bb64f14a44)

________________________________

Liberals want to take away more of your personal funds. Always.

http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/notax-s.gif

Konaguy

April 6th, 2005, 07:09 PM

Evidently the bill that would've raised the GET statewide has died. But the
sister bill House Bill 1309 is still alive. The latter bill would give the counties
the right to increase GET.

If you want to voice your opinion against this.....

http://www.hawaiirealtors.com/misc_subpages/excise_tax.asp

mel

April 7th, 2005, 09:31 PM

The Hawaii Realtors are going all out with a media campaign to get people to tell their legislators that they don't want a general excise tax increase. Look for their ad with a bag of rice on it soon.

http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/notax-s.gif

mel

April 7th, 2005, 09:39 PM

Lawmakers on the Verge of Raising State G.E. Taxes (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?2a6c1f30-8e1f-4fe9-89dc-f6af12497e45)

This article posted today at HawaiiReporter.com:

Twelve of 15 members of the Senate Ways and Means committee, chaired by Sen. Brian Taniguchi, D-Manoa, voted yesterday to increase Hawaii’s general excise tax by 12.5 percent to fund a fixed rail system on Oahu.

Those who voted for the measure in the WAM committee include Democrat Sens. Brian Taniguchi, Shan Tsutsui, Kalani English, Wil Espero, Carol Fukunaga, Gary Hooser, Lorraine Inouye, Brian Kanno, Donna Kim, Russell Kokubun, Clarence Nishihara, and Norman Sakamoto. All of the Republicans on the committee opposed the measure and spoke out against it including Sens. Fred Hemmings, Sam Slom and Gordon Trimble.

The bill earlier passed the state House with House members voting to increase the G.E. Tax by 25 percent.

Hawaii already has the overall highest tax burden in the nation and one of the highest costs of living.

Are the lawmakers who voted for this tax increase, which affects every level of sale on goods and services in Hawaii, heroes or scoundrels?

You vote and let them know what you think.

Go to this link and cast your vote. (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?2a6c1f30-8e1f-4fe9-89dc-f6af12497e45)

http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/notax-s.gif

alohabear

April 27th, 2005, 06:48 AM

Why should taxpayers on the neighbor islands pay for O'ahu's rail system? By raising taxes it's exactly what we will do. O'ahu's traffic problem is bad, but it should be a city problem ...not the State. 900.00 a year is a lot for a train I won't use.

craigwatanabe

April 27th, 2005, 09:01 AM

Hi Mel...Hi Miulang, well this sure turned into a festive thread :)

Being from both Honolulu and the Big Island now I can see the valid points from both sides.

Whether Oahu needs a rail system or not, something needs to be done with it's growing population and major congestion (#1 reason why I left Oahu for the open spaces of the Big Island) and funding has to come from somewhere.

Private transit? Well we all know how Hawaii attacks new transit ventures (i.e. Super Ferry) and other business start ups. It is hard to start a business here in Hawaii without being taxed to hell.

Public transit? Mel's arguement seems to point out the deficiencies in this approach.

Public/Private transit? Yeah like our bus system (MTL). I was a juror involved in a civil whistleblower case against one MTL manager against the corporation. The evidence that was presented and later restricted blew my mind to the point where having a private company manage a government funded operation wreaks of greedy hands in the til.

So who? Well unfortunately it has to be the Government if nobody steps up.

But I did vote against raising the GET to fund the rail program simply as Aloha Bear and Mel indicated: We on the neighbor islands will have to help fund a transit system that we won't be able to utilize. If there should be any government funding it should come primarily from the county for which that transit system will benefit (with the aid of federal monies)

Yes that means that Deep Pocket C&C of Honolulu won't be there to help subsidize outer island projects but hey that's the downside and you just gotta live with it.

If Honolulu doesn't want to bear the burden alone then Honolulu has to figure out a way to reduce it's transit woes.

When I used to ride TheBus to work I've always lamented that why should a middle-aged man in the Tax Gap Group (in other words pays the highest taxes) have to pay full fare on the bus and have to stand in the bus to get to work?

There should be more buses during peak hours to accomodate more comfortable seating and a law that requires all passengers to be seated when the bus is moving. That way everybody gets a seat and would make public transportation (the bus) more viable.

Adding a few more buses during these times would cost Honolulu a whole lot less and encourage motorists like myself to ride it.

The problem with rail is that it's fixed and you cannot change it's route if the population density moves.

On the flip side though, the arguement that a lot of motorists need their cars to pick up and drop off their kids in town when they live in Kapolei is kinda weak. Just take a look at motorists who are sitting in the parking lot known as H1/H2...they're alone in their cars. No kids there only one person. Then look at them again in the afternoon rush...same thing.

Rail would work for those individuals who just go to work then go home. But like improving the sewer and sidewalks in front of your own home, that cost should be aimed at those who will benefit from it.

Someone (editorial in the Honolulu Advertiser) even advocated limiting population growth! Yeah that's an easy answer keep people from moving to Hawaii or from having kids? Maybe that lady should start the movement by moving out of her house and out of Hawaii. If she thought that was such a great idea why isn't she implimenting it?

Is there an answer? If I could answer that million dollar question then I'd be Mayor of Honolulu. Go ask Mufi...it's his job to have that answer, Mel, Miulang we can only suggest and maybe someone will see the virtues in your statements and can work with them to find a viable solution to this decades old problems of mass transit in Honolulu. Remember F.A.R.T.? Fasi Area Rapid Transit (mocking SFO's B.A.R.T)? When Frank Fasi was our beloved mayor back then, he advocated a rail system that long ago.

For now my personal solution was to make the move away from Honolulu to do my part in relieving congestion there. Really though we need to de-urbanize Honolulu and get more working people to work closer to where they live. Kapolei was supposed to be that answer as the second city, however anyone driving townbound facing the sun in the morning then Ewa bound facing that same sun in the afternoon will tell you it ain't happening.

Okay Mufi, you got four years to do something about it. Let's see you earn your paycheck. :)

Miulang

April 27th, 2005, 09:39 AM

Yikes. We have the same problem up here. The State Legislature just voted to increase our gas taxes by 9.5 cents over the next 3 years so we can rehabilitate 2 major thoroughfares that mostly benefit King County (Seattle and Bellevue) residents. And the people of Eastern WA are raising all kinds of cane...just like the Neighbor Islanders are...because they get to pay the taxes and don't get the benefit. Eastern WA people would like to cecede from the State of WA and start their own state (current proposed name: Cascadia) because their needs and concerns are so different from those of the more urban western WA. I can emphathize with the farmers, etc. but one fact still remains: NOBODY SAID LIFE IS FAIR.

One thing most people don't realize is that big city folks also help subsidize those in smaller towns too. Take phone service, for instance. The reason the land line phone rates are equal for everyone for the same set of services whether they live in Honolulu or Kahalu'u is because the people in the city are helping to subsidize the cost of the service to areas where it's not profitable for the phone company to operate otherwise. Businesses subsidize all residential phone customers because they pay higher rates for basic service. You would not have universal phone services if it was not for the city dwellers and business owners.

The acceptance of "urban villages" really is growing. Why would you want to have to commute for hours to get to a job and then commute all the way back home if you could find a job and all the essential services you require on a daily basis in your own neighborhood?

The reason why subdivisions became the norm was because cars became cheaper and we were all programmed into believing that the American Dream was a home with a yard and a white picket fence around it. Sprawlinization required more land, and available land was farther and farther away from the city core. As more and more people moved into the suburbs, they spent less time in town outside of their work hours, so small businesses began to fail because fewer people patronized them. It was more "convenient" to drive x miles to a megamall and do all your shopping in one place than it was to have to visit several businesses which might be blocks away from each other.

As I said before, the "village" I live in is 20 minutes north of Seattle, but I have banks, McD, a department store, a library, 3 supermarkets, multiple restaurants, schools and a somewhat decent bus line (soon to be a monorail stop too), 3 Starbucks, antique stores, car repair shops and other small retail businesses, gas stations, and 2 hospitals within 3 miles of me. When the time comes for me to permanently garage the car, I can hop on the bike and get to anything I need.

If the CC of Honolulu is smart, they will turn Kapolei into a true city that has all the services that Honolulu has so people can find work and live in Kapolei without putting undue stress on your already stress-filled roads.

Miulang

P.S. Here is a question to the neighbor islanders who think it unfair to spend $900 annually on a service that they can't use: what if you paid the $900 annually to your own county government so they could beef up public transportation on your island? Would that be more palatable? Because you know you have traffic problems, too.

Miulang

April 27th, 2005, 12:40 PM

And that additional 9.5 cents is over and above what I pay in sales tax every year for my car (this year the bill was $531), which is also supposed to be funding public transportation up here.

Miulang

Moto

April 27th, 2005, 01:48 PM

Hawaii's sales Tax is one of the lowest in the Nation. When I go to California I pay 8+% for sales tax, Nevada 6+%. Why can't we raise our sales tax to, say 7% and provide a calculated credit that will make the additional 3% a wash when we file for Hawaii State Taxes. In essence, we will be placing the buren on the tourists. The opposition will say that it will hurt tourism, but think about it, does anyone decide not to go to California because their sales tax is 8%? I don't think so. Additionally, we will be somewhere in the middle, just not at the low end where we are now. We can make this tax effective statewide and make the tax credit to Hawaii Residents filing their tax returns Statewide too. I'm sure it's not all that simple, but we should be looking more into those lines.

craigwatanabe

April 27th, 2005, 05:31 PM

First off the GET tax isn't a sales tax as we all mistakenly apply. Second yes our sales tax is lower than most, however it's the cost of goods due to shipping which makes products here higher than the mainland average prices. Raising the GET will burden those Title I families who have little income to spend. My feeling is if we do raise the GET, then we exempt things like food and prescriptions alone so the poor can afford to eat and be medicated.

Aaron, remember your thread on Home Depot on DHHL lands? Wasn't there an issue with High-cost loop phone service and a waiver that allowed that other company to come in and provide phone service there? What was that waiver for? This is regarding Miulang's comments on the cost of phone service.

One thing I do understand is that all taxes won't benefit all taxpayers, however for such a massive undertaking, raising the GET to cover a very limited transit system seems unfair. When using the example of phone service, at least you get to use that service despite having a larger county pay for most of it. There is some equity in there unlike rail.

No I still stand on my position that the outer islands shouldn't have to pay for a system they'll never use, NEVER USE. Now a ferry service yeah I can see raising the GET to have that, all counties can benefit from it (Including Maui County if they get their act together).

Yes life is unfair however at least we in the United States have a voice. Voting for raising the GET isn't good and the consequences for our elected officials to do so will be seen in the next elections.

Konaguy

April 27th, 2005, 06:26 PM

pzarquon

April 27th, 2005, 07:20 PM

Boosting the GET to an even five would at least make it easier to calculate. What the heck is this 4.16666666666 crap anyway? :) But since a GET is a compounding tax - charged on a product or service every step of the way, sometimes a handful of times before it gets to the consumer - I wish we'd at least add the usual exemptions for food and health care.

Konaguy

April 27th, 2005, 07:48 PM

BWhat the heck is this 4.16666666666 crap anyway? :)

It is because its a "sellers tax" not "buyers tax" . Thus as far as I understand
why the tax is .041666 is because the sellers have to charge 4% of 4% of
the selling price to pay their state tax obligations.

http://starbulletin.com/2003/03/16/news/story6.html

Now here's where it gets tricky. Some merchants will sell you the $100 item, and add on a tax of $4.16.

The reason is that the excise tax is the seller's tax, not the buyer's tax as it would be in most states, counties and cities across the nation that charge a "sales tax" on the final retail sale of an item.

At the close of the business day, the Hawaii merchant adds up his gross receipts, including the amount he added onto the sales ticket as "tax," and then multiplies his total by 4 percent to determine how much he owes the state.

That means the $100 he got for the item, plus the $4 tax he added to total $104 times 4 percent to equal $4.16 he owes the state

mel

April 27th, 2005, 08:15 PM

The following link contains a brief explanation of the GE Tax from the Tax Foundation of Hawaii:

http://www.tfhawaii.org/taxes/get.html

Here's a PDF direct from the State Dept. of Taxation on the GE Tax:

http://www.state.hi.us/tax/brochures/ge_bro.pdf

No matter which it is, a tax increase is a tax increase. More money out of your pocket and more money into the coffers of government.

Call, fax or email your legislator. Tell them to vote "no" on HB 1309 & HB 1645.

http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/notax-s.gif
No New Taxes Hawaii (http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/index.html) | HAR - Oppose the GE Tax Increase! (http://www.hawaiirealtors.com/misc_subpages/excise_tax.asp)

craigwatanabe

April 28th, 2005, 12:04 AM

Firstly I'm STRONGLY opposed to any GET increase. I have tried
to drill that home with my legislators. GET gets applied to any service, product
you purchase here in Hawaii. Besides that I don't want to be financing something on Oahu.... gimme a break....

"Aaron, remember your thread on Home Depot on DHHL lands? Wasn't there an issue with High-cost loop phone service and a waiver that allowed that other company to come in and provide phone service there? What was that waiver for? This is regarding Miulang's comments on the cost of phone service.

I don't know how this fits into the GET increase discussion, but for starters...
it wasn't about Home Depot on DHHL lands. It was about Home Depot using
Sandwich Isles Communications for telephone service.

I'm strongly opposed SIC project on the grounds it is a waste of taxpayer funds and the fact that after complete it will create a disparity between
DHHL and non-DHHL lands. DHHL lands will get Fiber-optic connections to the home while non-DHHL areas won't have FTTH.

Part of it was Sandwich Island Communications' filing for a waiver to allow High Cost Loop phone service on DHHL lands and that Verizon was fighting it because they were given the go ahead by the State to provide statewide telephone service and that included DHHL lands.

How it relates to this topic is the way phone service is partially subsidized by Federal grant monies to help areas where phone service would be cost prohibitive due to the small pool of subscribers. Miulang speculates that although Honolulu pays the brunt of Verizon's phone service statewide, the outer islands benefit from Honolulu's deep pockets. But does this waiver make that speculation moot? I don't know.

:)

Moto

April 28th, 2005, 05:50 AM

pzarquon

April 28th, 2005, 07:00 AM

Bottom line, I am tired of paying for other states' programs when I visit them and don't have their residents pay for our programs when they visit us.Care to elaborate? I'm not sure I understand. Tax revenues from visitors are a big chunk of the pie, I thought... especially considering the huge Transient Accommodations Tax (TAT).

Meanwhile, here's a story from today's Star-Bulletin:

Hawaii ranks first among states in taxes per capita (http://starbulletin.com/2005/04/28/news/story7.html)
Hawaii has the highest per-capita state tax collection in the nation, according to figures released yesterday by the U.S. Census Bureau... The data from the 2004 Annual Survey of State Government Tax Collections found that per-capita taxes collected by states averaged $2,024 nationally. Hawaii recorded $3,048 in per-capita taxes collected, followed by Wyoming, $2,968; Connecticut, $2,937; Minnesota, $2,889; and Delaware, $2,862... One reason Hawaii's per-capita tax take is high is because it is the only state that funds public education. In other states, schools are funded by local property taxes. "It's kind of like looking at apples and oranges," said Linn Garcia, a tax specialist with the state Department of Taxation.

Moto

April 28th, 2005, 08:22 AM

What I am advocating for is a raise in the Sales Tax to say 7% from 4%. But to balance that off, when you file your Hawaii State Income tax, you will receive a larger exemption (that proposal was introduced yesterday for the GET proposal), large enough to offset the additional 3% a resident would pay. In a perfect world, it would be a wash for local residents that pay taxes. The plus would be that visitors to our islands will also pay the tax, but since they do not file for Hawaii State Income taxes, their contribution will be what the state essentially uses to fund a special program. Essentially, it is a tax hike but only for non-Hawaii Residents. Is 7% unreasonable? I pay 8% when I am in California, 6% in Nevada. I am not sure what it is at other areas, but I don't think 7% is unreasonable, provided the adjustment is given when I file for my taxes. Hope this clears things up. I also understand that this may not be the perfect solution, but I would like to think this is a step in the right direction.

mel

April 28th, 2005, 10:31 AM

Konaguy

April 28th, 2005, 10:34 AM

I'm a bit baffled Hawaii doesn't have a Sales Tax. We do have a General
Excise Tax which is nothing like a Sales Tax. GET applies to any purchase,
service made in Hawaii. If it moves it will be taxed by GET.

Konaguy

April 28th, 2005, 10:41 AM

Miulang speculates that although Honolulu pays the brunt of Verizon's phone service statewide, the outer islands benefit from Honolulu's deep pockets. But does this waiver make that speculation moot? I don't know.

:)

Well that may be true as 90% of the 707,000 Verizon Hawaii landlines are in urban Honolulu. But the FCC waiver for SIC is allow it to tap the Universal
Service Fund to build their network. If the FCC pulls it SIC won't be able to
build their network.

SIC claims DHHL areas are underserved. They were able to convince the FCC
and USDA RUS of this fact. Hence why they qualified for the USF/USDA RUS
funding.

Miulang

April 28th, 2005, 11:47 AM

I don't understand why the State of Hawai'i has GET instead of a sales tax either. Here's the definition of GET (http://www.tfhawaii.org/taxes/get.html) from the Hawai'i Taxpayer's Foundation. And then this year, there's a "depyramiding" on certain services for the calendar year 2005 and then 0.5% in 2006 and thereafter. Is GET more like VAT in Canada?

What I also don't get is why the State collects the money to fund public education. Why doesn't it reduce the GET and let the cities and counties levy property taxes to fund schools in their areas as well as public transportation?

Everywhere else, property taxes fund public education, and those are levied by county. Up here, we don't pay sales tax on most food in the markets or prescription medicine. We do pay sales tax on restaurant dining, beauty parlors, liquor, cigarettes, etc. We also have no personal state income tax, but that's the reason why our county sales tax (8.8%) is so high. I would almost rather have a WA state personal income tax of say, 4% and a sales tax not to exceed 4.8% (so the net result is our tax base would increase while our tax to consume goods would go down). That way, we wouldn't get nickle and dimed by the gas tax, the monorail tax, the light rail tax...etc. And I could get back some of my state sales tax money on a tax return. Right now, I can only claim a portion of the sales tax I pay and then that exemption goes away after this year.

You could also start a State lottery. Money collected from that could go into your State general fund or help fund public education.

Miulang

Konaguy

April 28th, 2005, 12:11 PM

Since education, transportation etc are centralized with the State of Hawaii.
Thats why the state of Hawaii funds education here for example. I believe
we are the only state with a centralized school system. On the mainland
its on the city and county level that funds education.If we wanted to
change things a good start is to abolish the centralized education system we have and give it to counties.

DaveNSoKona

April 28th, 2005, 03:15 PM

P.S. Here is a question to the neighbor islanders who think it unfair to spend $900 annually on a service that they can't use: what if you paid the $900 annually to your own county government so they could beef up public transportation on your island? Would that be more palatable? Because you know you have traffic problems, too.

That wouldn't matter here on the Big Island because most of the DOT money goes to pay for four lane highways in Hilo. So Kona residents are used to paying for services we don't get to use (much, or at all).

I am surprised at Hawaii, being a democratic (blue) state having what is generally considered a regressive tax as the GET (AKA sales tax). Then again, I was surprised it took so long for Hawaii to pass a bottle bill.

OT: I recently read that the contractor that provides a dumpster for Milolii refuge transfer station gets $7000/month!! Serving a very generous estimate of 700 people. As far as I can see that and similar cronyism spending has been the legacy of a Democratic Party here in Hawaii.

Thinking out load: ‘Anytime an alternative to Federal Income Tax is suggested, like a national sales tax, it is always shot down for the reason it is a regressive tax. Maybe someone can enlighten me here. Don’t people with more money buy more things and therefore pay more tax? How is that regressive?’

I don’t endorse either party BTW. I think each party has it faults and have little to recommend them.

To answer your question. No I don't think neighbor islanders should pay such a large bite to support the rail project on Oahu.

The subject of taxes is ludicrous to me considering congress voted overwhelmingly to repeal the Spanish-American War excise tax on telephone service (circa 1898) only to be vetoed by President Clinton. Now the IRS wants to expand it to VOIP services!!!

Konaguy

April 28th, 2005, 03:30 PM

T Now the IRS wants to expand it to VOIP services!!!

Actually it is the FCC not the IRS who handles telecom regulation...:)

Moto

April 29th, 2005, 06:07 AM

The Hawaii General Excise Tax is NOT a SALES tax. You cannot raise a Sales tax if we do not have a sales tax. We have a general excise tax and the proposed raise is for that. Whatever taxes get raised, the bottom line is that there is MORE MONEY out of your pocket now. NO NEW TAXES!

Even if they adjust the tax schedule to allow a larger exemption per person? That would mean that when you file for taxes you would get your money back. If you adjust your witholding amounts, you would be able to keep your money up front.

I guess there are two issues here that are forcing this to come to a head. First, the people in support of the Rail system understand that the Federal Government is willing to put up matching funds, however, that offer expires, so there is a push for this to happen now. For the people against rail, this issue either does not affect them, will not use it, don't believe this is the best solution, or does not want a change to our GET structure.

I have been trying to suggest a solution that I thought would satisify the people against the rail. I am not sure that rail is the correct answer, will sufficient people utilize it? I would assume that the people that currently ride the bus, would use it. The function of the busses that will be used less would be to shuttle people from their community to the rail stops. I guess the State/City could initiate otehr initiatives such as staggered work times. Maybe they should lead the initiative with changing the work schedules for State/City offices/facilities, they control this.

I guess the bottom line is that the legislators see the matching funds as a bone dangling in front of them and they do not want to lose it.

mel

April 30th, 2005, 07:32 AM

Conference Committee Passes GE Tax Bill :mad:

A Senate-House conference committee passed the General Excise Tax Increase bill (HB 1309 CD1 (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/docs/getstatus.asp?qu=HB1309&showstatus=on&showtext=on&showcommrpt=on&press1=docs)) yesterday. This version of the bill will increase the General Excise Tax by 12.5%. Here is the vote count for the bill:

4/29/2005
The Conference Committee recommends that the measure be Passed, with Amendments.The votes were as follows: 5 Ayes: Representative(s) Souki, Takamine, Karamatsu, Lee, Yamane; Ayes with reservations: none; 0 Noes: none; and 1 Excused: Representative(s) Fox.

Note: Rep. Fox would have voted "yes" for this bill as he had in earlier drafts.

4/29/2005
The Conference committee recommends that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes of the Senate Conference Managers were as follows: 3 Aye(s): Senator(s) Taniguchi, Inouye, Espero; Aye(s) with reservations: none ; 0 No(es): none; and 1 Excused: Senator(s) Ige.

Note: Sen. Ige would have voted "yes" for this bill as he had in earlier drafts.

4/29/2005
Reported from Conference Committee (Conf Com. Rep. No. 186) as amended in (CD 1).

4/29/2005
Reported from Conf. Com. as amended CD 1 (Conf. Com. Rep. No. 186).

4/29/2005
48 Hrs. Notice (as amended CD 1) 05-03-05.

The bill will go to a full floor vote in both houses of the legislature on Tuesday, May 3.

How can you stop this tax from happening? Call all of your legislators. Here is a link to all of the Senate (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/senate/members/members.asp?press1=senate&press2=members) and House (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/house/members/members.asp?press1=house&press2=members) member contact information. Call, fax or email them today! sens@capitol.hawaii.gov |reps@capitol.hawaii.gov.

Also, call Governor Lingle (http://www.hawaii.gov/gov/gov/contact.html) and urge her to not sign this bill. The Governor has vowed to sign a tax hike bill should the bill such as this one gives authorization to the counties to raise the tax.

Is Hawaii open for business? Not if this tax kicks in. The General Excise Tax increase will hurt business, hurt consumers, the elderly, the poor, tourists and everyone else who makes any financial transaction in the State of Hawaii. State or County GE tax, the money is the same, coming out from the same pockets and hurting the same people. NO NEW TAXES!

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No New Taxes Hawaii (http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/index.html) | HAR - Oppose the GE Tax Increase! (http://www.hawaiirealtors.com/misc_subpages/excise_tax.asp)

Miulang

May 5th, 2005, 05:00 AM

Signed, sealed and delivered (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/May/05/ln/ln05p.html) by 7 of the Honolulu City Council members yesterday. I guess you guys will get your light Kapolei light rail line soon, because Linda Lingle will probably sign the bill.

Miulang

mel

May 5th, 2005, 05:58 AM

Money Money Money (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?256d0b3c-d701-4c6e-b7d6-14f211baf36d)

Legislators Vote for General Excise Tax Increase Bill, Despite More Than 1,000 Letters Flooding Capitol Offices; The Decision Will Likely Lead to Biggest Tax Increase in State's History.....

Details at the Link (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?256d0b3c-d701-4c6e-b7d6-14f211baf36d)

Trail of Tears (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?fac1d692-6008-4173-9ac5-a0b3fb839793)

Hawaii's High Cost of Living, High Taxes, Have Driven Families to Leave State.....

Hawaii's General Excise Tax is harsh, and there is no doubt, it has created a trail of tears and separated Hawaii's families.

The proposal to increase the state's General Excise Tax by 12.5 percent, only makes this divide worse.

Complete text at this link (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?fac1d692-6008-4173-9ac5-a0b3fb839793)

Morphing Into Governor Mazie (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?82e81296-0f1b-407b-8558-12a64a1516ec)

Gov. Linda Lingle Should Stop Acting Like the Democrats and Veto Hawaii's Legislation that Would Establish the Largest Tax Increase in Hawaii's History

Complete, painful text at this link. (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?82e81296-0f1b-407b-8558-12a64a1516ec)

If you want this tax increase to stop call, fax or email Governor Linda Lingle:

Telephone 808 586-0034
Fax 808 586-0006

Call her on the air Wednesday mornings 7 - 8 am KHVH, KAOI, KPUA, KONG radio: 808 521-8383, or toll free from the neighbor islands, 888 565-8383.

Send her an email at this link. (http://www.hawaii.gov/gov/gov/email)

The bill must be vetoed ASAP!

The bill passed out of the Senate by a 16 - 9 margin with nearly all Democrats voting yes for the tax. NO REPUBLICANS voted yes.

The House was a mixed bag with 32 yes votes and 19 no votes, that cut across party lines both ways.

All this despite thousands of faxes, emails and phone calls mostly urging a NO vote to Hawaii's largest tax increase ever.

Link to Bill Status/History of HB 1309 (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/docs/getstatus2.asp?billno=HB1309)

The Case Against Rail Transit on One Page (http://www.honolulutraffic.com/onepage.pdf) (PDF file)

Alliance For Traffic Improvement (http://www.honolulutraffic.com/)

This tax is not about home rule, it is about our aching wallets!

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No New Taxes Hawaii (http://macpro.freeshell.org/notax/index.html) | HAR - Oppose the GE Tax Increase! (http://www.hawaiirealtors.com/misc_subpages/excise_tax.asp) :mad:

pzarquon

May 5th, 2005, 06:25 AM

I don't envy Lingle. It's a tight spot. No one wants to be the next Rene Mansho -- you know, the single person to torpedo yet another exhaustive attempt at passing something to have a chance at some federal dollars to address transportation on a macro scale.

With this bill, she has an 'out' in that it's the counties that will be raising your taxes. Honolulu's already got the John Q. Taxpayer check drafted and is ready to go, but who knows, maybe the other counties will take a longer look at it. I'm pretty sure they'll also want to invest in public transportation, though. They've been stuck in TheBus' shadow for too long.

The fact that the state will have to administer the higher tax collection is certainly a pain in the butt, and gives the counties an out in that the 'tax' line on all your receipts will still have the state's name on it. But I do think it's simpler than expecting individual counties to suddenly develop a collection system and for all receipts to have a second line for 'tax' - talk about adding insult to injury.

As someone who's wanted to see rail in Honolulu since he was six years old or so, I fall into the "about damn time" camp. (Though I don't have it in front of me, Howard Dicus wrote a pretty succinct pro-rail piece in the Pacific Business Newsa few weeks back.) That's not to say, however, that I don't think this is going to hurt. Damn straight taxes suck. But it'd have hurt less if we got it over with in the '80s, and you bet your sweet bippy it'll hurt more if we wait another 15 years.

Miulang

May 5th, 2005, 06:39 AM

And us guys on the Mainland will have a vested interest in making this thing work too, if the State qualifies for federal funding. Some of my tax money will be going to help you build your public transportation system, too, on top of all the taxes I pay whenever I visit da 'aina.

Miulang

mel

May 5th, 2005, 06:44 AM

It is quite convenient that the previous posts have pre-empted my post (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=25831&postcount=60) by adding a new page. So now I add another follow-up post to remind people that plain and simple this whole rail scam is just another money grab at your wallet. It is time to stop the bleeding today.

Call, fax and email Governor Linda Lingle and tell her to veto this bill today.

Our wallets are aching. Approving this tax will only cement Hawaii's dismal reputation as being a continual tax hell.

This is not about home rule. This is about our wallets.

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pzarquon

May 5th, 2005, 07:18 AM

It is quite convenient that the previous posts have pre-empted my post (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=25831&postcount=60) by adding a new page.It's hardly a conspiracy, Mel. Pagination is automatic. I'm pretty sure most of us here are smart enough to know how to catch up on a multi-page thread.Call, fax and email Governor Linda Lingle and tell her to veto this bill today.Unless, of course, you want her to sign it.

Er, okay, I don't think anyone wants her to sign it. Just like no one really wants to go to the dentist. Just close your eyes and think of England... :p

mel

May 5th, 2005, 07:37 AM

It's hardly a conspiracy, Mel. Pagination is automatic. I'm pretty sure most of us here are smart enough to know how to catch up on a multi-page thread.

But it was just plain ol' convenient after I had put up a substantial post. I never said "conspiracy" when I made my follow-up post. You read whatever you like into that... and I guess you read conspiracy.

What is a bigger conspiracy is this onerous rail tax that must absolutely be stopped. Rail will NOT solve traffic gridlock. It will only add to the cost of living to all Hawaii residents and visitors. It is a tax up front and later will be a continual tax from other sources as homeowners will have to subsidize both rail and the money losing Bus that only serves 8% of the population.

Not to mention that the pinko communist Congressman, Neil Abercrombie stated in his recent article that they plan to sell development rights along the rail route to developers thus increasing people's property taxes along the line once some kind of plan is finalized.

This rail tax will involve more than the GET.

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:mad:

jdub

May 6th, 2005, 12:18 AM

I'd have to agree that a light rail system will not do much to solve the traffic problem on Oahu. Even the exorbitant gas prices drivers pay here haven't increased ridership on theBus to any appreciable extent. This issue has been a quagmire for as long as i can remember, and throwing money at a problem like traffic is not likely to provide any real solution. Even with a rail system as an option, i just don't see John and Jane Platelunch getting out of their cars.

As far a the tax hike, I find it unconscionable that lawmakers failed to provide ANY tax relief this session. Auwe!

mel

May 6th, 2005, 06:51 AM

Raising State General Excise Tax Bad for Hawaii Families (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?0223f74c-7fac-4f59-83ad-3138a201777a)

According to the Tax Foundation of Hawaii, this tax increase that passed the state Legislature this week, will cost my family $450 a year.

I cannot afford this.

I am on a fixed private pension that has no cost of living increases. Unfortunately, I do not have one of those generous public employee pensions with its cost of living increases.

In 14 years, I have not had a cost of living increase in my pension. I wish lawmakers were as concerned with my financial welfare as they are of the state employees.

If you pass this tax increase, you will certainly certify that you are not concerned with my financial welfare as well as that of others in the private sector on fixed pensions.

Read the entire essay at this link. (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?0223f74c-7fac-4f59-83ad-3138a201777a)

I know several people who in the same predicament as this person. The GE Tax and all the other taxes that both the city and state are raising will not only hurt the average wage earner, but also negatively impact the elderly on fixed incomes.

Do we really want to perpetuate Hawaii's horrible reputation as being the worst state for taxes any longer? If so call the Governor and urge her to veto this tax increase today!

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Miulang

May 12th, 2005, 05:47 AM

Mufi wants light rail (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/May/12/ln/ln02p.html) to stop his constituents from complaining about gridlock on Honolulu roads. Is Mufi going to get what he wants?

Miulang

mel

May 12th, 2005, 06:20 AM

Bill 40 on fast track; no community public hearings: (http://www.honolulutraffic.com) :eek:

Bill 40, the transit tax, which will collect $3,000,000,000 ($3 billion) from taxpayers, or $13,000 for each family of four, would be the largest tax increase in Hawaii's history and yet there will be no opportunity for the opposition to voice its rebuttal in any detail; the "privilege" of being able to make a one minute comment does not count as a "hearing" — it is a joke. Nor will there be any opportunity for community understanding and input.

How are average voters expected to take off 3 to 4 hours from work to attend these "hearings"? Of course they can't.

This is an absolute outrage; we must demand hearings in each Neighborhood Board District. With a new Council and a new Mayor, we had expected the promised "open and transparent" process. Instead it is the "same old same old" shibai. Call, fax or email your Council member and express your outrage. Tell them you want an open process and hearings in each community. Don't let them get away with it.

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________________________________

Liberals want to take away more of your personal funds. Always.

bustedbyu

May 13th, 2005, 02:15 PM

Let me say that this is my first post and wished that I visited this forum earlier in the legislative session. Please bear with me as I move from point to point, though I may be off track at times.

The general excise tax is not a sale tax. Our 4% GET is like a 12-16% sales tax because it has the pyramiding effect. Products are sold and taxed from manufacturer to distributor to wholesaler to retailer and essentially to you. With the estimated 3 billion dollars that the tax will create, the Feds will only match approximately 500-600 million dollars. They have never gone higher than that, ever.

The city council IS fast tracking Bill 40. Though they don't have a plan, they are ready to increase your taxes. They are not even discussing the issue of property condemnation along the rail line as some residents and businesses will be forced out of their property. There are 2 more council hearings to vote on the bill before it is enacted.

Governor Lingle publicly stated that she will sign the bill. You can help stop Bill 40 at the city council by faxing letters to them:

Visit http://capwiz.com/hirealtors/issues/alert/?alertid=7581591&type=CU

One letter you generate will be faxed to all 9 council members. Once you send your letter, forward the link to everyone you know.

Miulang

May 13th, 2005, 02:36 PM

How many more 9 hour traffic jams on H-1 is it gonna take before Honolulu gets serious about beefing up public transportation (not necessarily light rail)? Twice a week may be unusual (as happened this week), but with all the lolo drivers yakking on cell phones or otherwise being distracted and causing accidents as they navigate the roads, this kind of traffic mess is bound to only get worse.

Yes, our new monorail and light rail systems up here required condemnation of businesses and homes, but the money that was offered to the owners was fair and not many complained about having to leave. We get more complaints about building a 3rd runway (which is really required because of the air traffic) at Sea-Tac Airport.

Miulang

Kalihiboy

May 13th, 2005, 09:23 PM

I'm tired of the whining and bitching, tell me a alternative solution to the traffic jams on Oahu? THEN I will consider your proposals and go against the light rail supporters. You guys just scare people with the 'taxes=death' propaganda but dont offer solutions to fix the problems. And I want GOOD ideas, not lame ones like I see in the paper, "fix the roads and build more highways". Please!! That is just what we need more gridlock caused by more cars on more roadways.

I wish it could be as simple as putting the railway in the existing zipper lanes on the highway, but I know its much more complicated than that. I think eliminating road traffic to part of Waikiki, like Kuhio or Kalakaua would be a good idea or turning parts of King Street into light rail are options. Heck, years ago we did have a rail system on King Street it worked then, why not now!?

I dont drive, I walk 60 miles a week all over this island, I dont need a damn car, nor do I need the worthless bus. But if I need to get somewhere in a hurry, yes I'll highly considering riding the rail system because it will get me there quicker while the rest of you yahoo's who insist on driving all over the place and clogging up the roadways, sit in logjams while I wave and laugh at you as I wiz by.

KalihiBoy

Miulang

May 14th, 2005, 07:15 AM

Hey, Kalihiboy, long time no see...
Here are some alternatives to the traffic jams that don't require any new roads or light rail:

1) move closer to where you work. This might mean giving up a single family house with a yard, but hey, those days of being able to afford to live out in suburbia and drive in to work in an SUV are gone. Moving closer to work might mean renting or buying a condo, although you gotta act fast: the Capitol Place (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/May/14/bz/bz01p.html) condo development on the edge of downtown is selling units for an average of nearly $660,000, and the units won't be ready to move into for another couple of years. The developers thought they would be selling the units in the high $200k for one bedroom units, and now those units are going for around $345k. So the hot real estate market is just gravy for the developers.

2) Have the State give businesses an incentive to allow more workers to go on flextime. One of the reasons why traffic congestion is so bad is because everybody has to be on the road at the same time. If more of the major employers in Honolulu allowed employees to work flextime (maybe four 10 hour days instead of the five eight hour days), there would be fewer cars on the road. Up here, there is a Statewide mandate for businesses employing more than 50 people to partially subsidize bus passes, carpooling, telecommuting, anything to reduce the volumes of traffic during the peak commute times. I am generally at work by 7:30 a.m. and leave at 4:30 p.m., so I miss the peak traffic times by about half an hour at either end. And I get Fridays off, so I always get 3-day weekends.

These 2 things alone can probably ease much of the congestion between 7-9 a.m. and 4-6 p.m.

Miulang

craigwatanabe

May 14th, 2005, 09:15 AM

Not having a car can be a good thing however when you need to go to some major shopping for whatever or have to go to a formal event, suddenly a car is a godsend as some of my carless friends have found out.

You want solutions? If you hate the traffic but are in it guess what...you're part of the problem. Solution? Get out, my how simple.

I did, I hated the traffic so I left the island and moved to the Big Island where traffic isn't so much of a problem (with the exception of Kona, thank you Aaron). I did my part to relieve traffic congestion. But if you choose to live and work in Honolulu you ARE part of the problem and staying there isn't going to reduce the congestion for as long as you sit in your car/bus/light rail to get to work.

Oahu is like a box with it's seams ready to burst. Adding another transit system won't make that box any bigger. Sooner or later it's gonna bust wide open. So to relieve the pressure you gotta purge the system now and then.

Some woman in an editorial said we should limit population growth on Oahu. Oh yeah she got hers and wants to keep it. If she thinks it's such a great idea she should set the example and leave. I think it's a great idea so guess what I did?

Light rail won't work simply because getting several hundred people out of their cars will only make space for several hundred more people that will replace them. DUH!!! Now you got congestion and a white elephant taking up valuable transit space being paid for with your tax dollars!

Solution? Like I said: As long as you're sitting in traffic you're part of the problem. I don't sit in traffic so I don't have a transit problem anymore.

But I do have a problem when I did my part, yet my tax dollars are going to be used to try and solve someone elses problem because they won't solve their problem themselves. Does that make sense?

:)

Miulang

May 14th, 2005, 11:07 AM

Miulang

May 14th, 2005, 01:17 PM

I did, I hated the traffic so I left the island and moved to the Big Island where traffic isn't so much of a problem (with the exception of Kona, thank you Aaron). I did my part to relieve traffic congestion. But if you choose to live and work in Honolulu you ARE part of the problem and staying there isn't going to reduce the congestion for as long as you sit in your car/bus/light rail to get to work.
:)
Eh Craig, I thought you were musing a few weeks ago about cashing out on your Kea'au house (making money hand over fist) and possibly moving back to Oahu? Is that plan off now? :D (Shhh! don't tell more people to move to the Big Island! It's getting too crowded as it is).

Maybe instead of light rail, the planners should consider something like an elevated system (like a monorail). It wouldn't take up much space, could even run parallel with major highways like H-1 and you'd get more riders because of the shaka view they would have as they soared in air conditioned comfort above the people who are in cars who are all huhu because they have to sit in place for hours on end. :cool:

Miulang

bustedbyu

May 14th, 2005, 10:13 PM

Honestly, I'm not sure what a working solution for traffic gridlock is... it can be double decker freeways; but, more buses or hov lanes should be tested. The state nor the counties explained why the "Zipper Lane" could not be implemented for Ewa bound during peak times. I travel via Pearl Ridge to town and traffic is not too bad as I take Nimitz exit, which offers a HOV dedicated lane to town. As of today, just the fact that UH students are in their last day of final tests alleviate some gridlock.

I recall that there was a bill to build a UH school arould Kapolei side. Why not do it? UH Professional Workers (UHPW) did get a pay raise and though they didn't get the equivalent raise like the state HSTA and UPW in 2005, they will be asking for more money once their arbitration runs out.

Rather than mandating everyone pay more money without even a plan in place, is just undemocratic; then again, the term democratic requires another thread and more arguments because it does not have the same definition in the 80's as it is today -- young babies in legislative office.

Good night. Time to sleep.

craigwatanabe

May 14th, 2005, 11:24 PM

Eh Craig, I thought you were musing a few weeks ago about cashing out on your Kea'au house (making money hand over fist) and possibly moving back to Oahu? Is that plan off now? :D (Shhh! don't tell more people to move to the Big Island! It's getting too crowded as it is).

Maybe instead of light rail, the planners should consider something like an elevated system (like a monorail). It wouldn't take up much space, could even run parallel with major highways like H-1 and you'd get more riders because of the shaka view they would have as they soared in air conditioned comfort above the people who are in cars who are all huhu because they have to sit in place for hours on end. :cool:

Miulang

I'm still musing however the thought of leaving paradise is weighing heavy on my heart now. It's nice out here on the Big Island but like that Keola and Kapono Beamer song goes: Each time Honolulu City lights...will bring me back again. It's tough when you're born and raised on Oahu to lose that home town connection.

Right now it's 10:40 pm on a Saturday night and my kids have invited some of their school friends for a sleep over at our house. They went frog hunting on our 1-acre property and don't have to worry about disturbing any neighbors because we don't have any adjacent to our property! Plus you can hear the surf as we're about a five minute walk from the shore. It's so dark out here you can see the Milky Way Galaxy so clearly it stands out like a neon sign. Tonight is a great night for the kids to go out and venture and I'm sure as hell am going to miss this if I go back to Honolulu.

One thing though is that even if I go back to Honolulu, I won't have to work again so I won't be contributing to the rush hour traffic every morning.

If the state of Hawaii did what it was supposed to do Kapolei wouldn't be such a bad place to commute from or to. But anyone that has played Sim City knows that you develop the Industrial and Commercial zones first then establish the residential communities in order for that city to prosper.

Our City planners did it the wrong way, they built the homes first then put in the commercial zones. It didn't work with Hawaii Kai, it didn't work with Windward Oahu. The urban districts of Honolulu simply remain a magnet for commercial employment for all points of Oahu. Until that changes traffic will remain a problem on that island.

One of the best solutions so far has been to build a west campus for the UH. But for as long as the Manoa campus stays up and running, traffic will remain. You really have to eliminate the UH Manoa campus and redirect all college activity to perimeter campuses. The same goes for government offices, and major shopping centers. You have to move the influx away from the urban core of Honolulu and redirect it to the perimeters of Oahu to disperse traffic instead of having everyone merge into the core of Honolulu.

Yeah that means a complete rebuild of Oahu and a slow disintegration of all establishments that draw people by the thousands. That is highly unlikely but if you start to build on the perimeters slowly the traffic will move in those directions. Aloha stadium was a start when Halawa was considered the boonies on Oahu.

Really, long range planning is essential and the goal should be to decentralize Urban Honolulu. Putting a sports center at UH to me was a big mistake. It should have been built as part of a west Oahu campus vision. Now we have these huge complexes in the urban core of Honolulu and all it's doing is attracting people into it like a black hole.

One easy way to limit traffic is to make it more expensive to drive. Toll booths may be necessary to discourage single occupant vehicles on certain roadways. Better implimentation of policies regarding lane closures when there are accidents, restructuring on/off ramps to allow better thru put of freeway traffic like shutting down the Ewa bound Alexander street on ramp during morning and afternoon rush hours to allow facilitation of town bound traffic on the H-1 and shutting down the Kokohead bound Ward Avenue on ramp during the afternoon rush. Certain on ramps simply create more congestion to an already overloaded freeway system during peak hours.

On certain off ramps like the town bound Kinau off ramp that street that merges with that off ramp should be limited to local traffic only and not a feeder from Downtown Honolulu. That way the Kinau off ramp can merge into Kinau street effortlessly in the morning.

I won't even talk about Lunalilo and Piikoi Streets other than police monitoring to keep people from crossing over those solid lines by the Makiki post office should be enforced more often.

These are viable solutions for city traffic. But for light rail, even if it does attract 100% ridership, that only means that for every commuter that rides the rail, there's room on the H1/H2 for another to use his/her car and it will happen.

Instead of light rail the focus should have been on using the ferry systems to transport cars in mass between west Oahu and the urban core because it's hard to get people out of their cars they work so hard to drive.

These are some solutions not just blah blah blah. I got so sick and tired of that rhetoric from our elected officials I just had to leave that BS.

But those city lights...oh that magical cityscape at night that's something I miss too. Hopefully there can be a viable solution(s) to correct the traffic woes of Oahu, but honestly I don't think a light rail will work, better traffic management can make a difference.

Miulang

May 15th, 2005, 06:25 AM

In order to help fund some critical infrastructure improvements up here (like a new bridge between Seattle and Bellevue), there will be a toll associated with usage. The other major roadway that needs to be replaced (to the tune of something like $3 billion) the State decided it can't put toll booths on because it will be a major north-south arterial and they don't want to put additional traffic on the Interstate (they'll have to do that anyway, until the new Viaduct is built---it will be an underground tunnel). Plus, we're saddled with another 9.5 cent/gallon increase in gas taxes over the next 3 years to help subsidize part of the cost of construction (our gas taxes are about the highest in the nation right now as it is).

They also figured out that some of the HOV lanes are underutilized, so they are planning to implement PASS-type permits to single occupant cars who use the HOV lanes during peak commute times. In other words, commuters with only one occupant can pay a user fee to drive in the HOV lanes. Each driver in the program will be given a sensor and everytime they trip the sensor, their account will be billed for the trip. For some people, it would be worth the $5/day not to sit in traffic along with everyone else.

Me? I'll continue to work flex hours so I avoid the rush hours and always have a 3-day weekend.

Miulang

mel

May 16th, 2005, 07:37 AM

Light-Rail Projections Disappoint Feds (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?eccc08b1-d4d9-4849-a1ac-bfaa92e5d712)
From the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii

GRIH Comment: Note the article below designates Charlotte as a "winner" with a mere $199 million federal subsidy. The oft-stated subsidy projection for Oahu’s rail is on the order of $500 million. This is never going to happen. The federal government is learning the lesson and severely cutting back on mass transit subsidies. In other words, the residents of Hawaii are going to get soaked big-time in the long run. All the current projections are inadequate and wrong. (dn)

RALEIGH - Even while North Carolina’s three largest metro areas try to boost their “world class city” credentials with new light-rail transit systems, ridership trends suggest that such prestige projects will only aggravate already-spiraling costs.

Nowhere is this more evident than in Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, where the Triangle Transit Authority is the lead agency for a regional light-rail system that is supposed to cost about $630 million.

Select the link embedded in the article title for the complete text.

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Miulang

May 17th, 2005, 05:48 AM

For in-towners who only need a car periodically, the Flexcar option (http://www.flexcar.com/company/faq.asp) might just be the ticket. You basically pay a $40/month fee plus usage, and you reserve a Flexcar, which are parked in reserved spaces all over town. This concept started here in Seattle. The cars they have up here are mostly Priuses. You don't have car payments or car insurance to hassle with, no paying extra for gas or maintenance on the car, either.

Hmmm...maybe I should start a franchise in Honolulu... :cool:

Miulang
So I emailed Flexcar's corporate HQ here in Seattle the other day and asked them if/when they might be putting in an office in Honolulu. The reply I got back from the company President and CEO, Lance Ayrault:
"Thanks for your note. We actually get a lot of inquiries from Hawaii asking about Flexcar. I will have to take a closer look. "

Miulang

craigwatanabe

May 17th, 2005, 07:25 AM

wasn't there a city somewhere on this planet that had a system of bicycles like those flexcars?

From what I heard that didn't work at all with a lot of bikes ending up getting stolen or lost.

Other than the simple logistics of how a flexcar system works, what did they do to keep people from simply stealing them or not leaving them where they can be used by others?

mel

May 17th, 2005, 07:56 AM

GE Tax Increase will Increase Hawaii's Homeless Population (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?804dfb6c-6bf0-4e4c-a3fd-25da7f45ee13)

From Don Newman as published in HawaiiReporter.com

If the Honolulu City Council passes the 12.5 percent increase in the General Excise Tax (GET) this is going to further exacerbate the homeless problem. Because of the ubiquity of the GET, the impact of this increase is much larger than it first appears.

The GET is one of the most regressive taxes possible, hitting lower income residents the hardest. This is especially true because the GET is also levied on all goods and services including food and medical bills, one of the most unfair aspects of the tax. Those who are in marginal conditions, barely keeping themselves and their families from homelessness, are going to be pressed even more. The question is: How many will be driven into homelessness by the greater drain on their family finances due to the GET increase?

Read the complete article by clicking on the title or link (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?804dfb6c-6bf0-4e4c-a3fd-25da7f45ee13) here.

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craigwatanabe

May 17th, 2005, 09:34 AM

Hey Mel...I'm thinking Harry Kim and the county council on the Big Island may have fallen onto some good fortune by not exercising the right to raise the local county GET. By not raising it countywise, the Big Island may become the place to buy big ticket retail items such as cars, boats and other expensive retail merchandise because you'll be charged at the lower tax rate.

And that brings up the point of economics...not only the homeless but those in the gap group and those who are one paycheck from being homeless will be impacted as well.

With less money in the pocket to spend on goods, what good is an increase in the GET if you cannot afford to buy anything that is taxed by the GET?

Businesses will be hurt especially the small businesses that keep it's profits here in the islands. When businesses get hurt, it cannot afford to pay it's employees so layoffs occur and the joblessness rate increases. This results in higher unemployment figures which taxes our welfare system. But since the GET increase affects all retail (and wholesale) sales our poor as said will suffer the most, affording to buy only the cheaper variety of goods which comes full circle back to the retailer who cannot turn a profit on these low-margin goods. This further reduces the ability of a retailer to keep its employees and thus the vicious cycle turns another round.

Pretty soon you'll have a bunch of unemployed people who don't have the need to ride the rail that made them broke!

Raising taxes is not the answer for a robust economy and it's not the way to subsidize something that couldn't be bought with money in the bank!

Imagine you going to a car dealer to buy a car you cannot currently afford but try to buy it anyway based on the supposition that you will be making more money to cover the extended budget shortfall from this capital purchase. With limited funds available and going on projections that you will make more despite your current financial condition, you'd be a fool to even engage in this risky investment.

The State of Hawaii is going on the supposition that raising the GET will bring in more dollars. That's simple mathematics, however it takes a college degree to understand the complexities of economics and it's impact on society.

Yes more money will flow into the coffers, but for how long? Raising taxes is only stealing from Peter to pay Paul. The money doesn't magically appear out of nowhere, it has to come from some other source of funding that will be impacted negatively and that source of funds is your wallet! Remember the GET is a tax on tax. Your money in your wallet is what's left after government took out almost a third of your gross income. IT'S YOUR MONEY AND THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO TAKE THAT TOO!

Yeah sure you'll get something out of it...really? The only ones that will benefit from this tax increase are those directly impacted by what it's subsidizing. In Honolulu that will be for the light rail that services only one sector of Oahu. You simply cannot take that rail and move it somewhere else if another sector says it needs it.

And like I said before light rail takes several hundred motorists off the freeway only to leave room for several hundred more cars to take their places on the road. But this time the rail has taken up some transit space as well as cost the taxpayer for those few that will ride this white elephant.

There's a reason why a fixed transit service isn't here. It's because the design of our residential/commercial/industrial sectors were designed around being highly mobile with direct routes to final destinations instead of hubs where a transit system could work. Our state planners dictate that for every commercial establishment being made you must include adequate parking! So with a policy mandate like that it only encourages people to drive their cars!

If downtown Honolulu was devoid of parking I can s