crowded and exploited

[newroots]

h0wZiT. i'm a kid from Guam. but i really like hawai'i , the people seem so nice and the culture is ideaL. i think its the best place in the world. but i heared its crowded there. i was wondering if a person from another place can become 'kanaka'. and if anyone can tell me what a true hawaiian is , i'd like to know. mahalo.

[1stwahine]

h0wZiT. i'm a kid from Guam. but i really like hawai'i , the people seem so nice and the culture is ideaL. i think its the best place in the world. but i heared its crowded there. i was wondering if a person from another place can become 'kanaka'. and if anyone can tell me what a true hawaiian is , i'd like to know. mahalo.

Aloha and a Good Morning! I'm happy that you like Hawai'i and feel that it is the best place in the World. I do too! As with ever place, we have good people and bad ones too. The beauty of our islands is perfect unlike it's people. Yes, Honolulu is very crowded and our country areas are begining to grow at a rapid rate. Our outer islands still retain some old style Hawai'i but also is fast becoming a cement jungle as well.

As for your questions on a person becoming a kanaka and what is a true Hawaiian, you will get many definitions this morning. I'll leave it to them. GOD BLESS YOU DEAR CHILD! :)

[hkplayer]

i look fw to what the others say too...thanks in advance :)

[kimo55]

i was wondering if a person from another place can become 'kanaka'. and if anyone can tell me what a true hawaiian is , i'd like to know. mahalo.


first we must define your terms.
What are you calling a "kanaka"?

what is a "true Hawaiian"
as opposed to a "false Hawaiian"?
what is the implication?



In ancient days, kanaka was a subject of the cheif.
the average islander. laborer. a person. Man. Individual.
(according to the context of course.)
Now the word implies a person of Hawaiian ancestry.
One with Hawaiian blood.


so, obviously one can't decide and then "become kanaka".
It's as if you wake up one day, bolt outta bed and throw open the curtains and proclaim, "today, I am the dalai lama!"

as for "True Hawaiian", who, esp. a non Hawaiian would judge this?
Could judge this?
Who would even come up with a moniker such as this?
again; define your terms.

[1stwahine]

Good morning Kimo, remember this is a kid...so act accordingly and teach him well!

Much Aloha,
Lynn V

[kimo55]

Good morning Kimo, remember this is a kid...so act accordingly and teach him well!
yezz mazzah.

waiddaminit! act like an accordian?!

wait. how you know it is a kid and a him?

I believe being a teenager, our Guamite, at age 17, can handle most of what I offer.

YOU are free to teach, as well, aunty...

[1stwahine]

yezz mazzah.

waiddaminit! act like an accordian?!
accordion? not talking about an instrument.
Wake-up! You still in the daze..... :eek:

wait. how you know it is a kid and a him?
Gut feeling....about 9-12 yrs. old.

Aloha Kid! How old are you? I think you are very intellegent to be asking such questions! Good Luck!

[newroots]

aloha. sorry i'm replying so late. i'm 16 , not 9-12 lol. for a kanaka , i thought since , the hawaiian culture and bloodline was kind of dying , a person can become one. but your right , if you dont have the blood than you cant , by definition , become a 'kanaka'. for a true hawaiian. i dont really know any hawaiians. i only know one. thats why i was asking what is a true hawaiian. heres a more clear question. if someone learns hawaiian culture , looks hawaiian , speaks the language , and gets along wid em good , can they call themselves a 'hawaiian'?

[LikaNui]

heres a more clear question. if someone learns hawaiian culture , looks hawaiian , speaks the language , and gets along wid em good , can they call themselves a 'hawaiian'?

I get it now: you're joking, right?
Cuz obviously the answer to your question is not just "no" but "Hell no!".
:mad:

[newroots]

damn. i was looking foward to becoming hawaiian. why does the answer have to be no though. dont some haoles consider themselves hawaiian , like dog chapman.

[kimo55]

damn. i was looking foward to becoming hawaiian. why does the answer have to be no though. dont some haoles consider themselves hawaiian , like dog chapman.


next week, will you proclaim yourself to be a brain surgeon?
and in May '05, will you be the president of the united states? while also claiming to be a Cherokee Indian?

"why does the answer have to be no"
tha't life. and the nature of the subject.
read previous posts.

"dont some haoles consider themselves hawaiian"
uuhhh... who exactly claimed this, and what exactly did they claim?!

"like dog chapman"
do not even go there.

"if someone learns hawaiian culture , looks hawaiian..."
do you think Chapman looks Hawaiian?!

"damn. i was looking foward to becoming hawaiian"
(talk to Shirley MacLaine. Maybe you could put in a request for a subsequent incarnation.)
here's one clue; profaning the race/concept, not good.
and assuming it is some kinda "costume" you drape over yer superficial frame.

You need to learn more of different cultures. and the world in general.
"unclear on the concept", indeed.


yep.
as Lika sez:
ya gotta be joking.



OK, I got it. if yer REALLY serious, ask these same questions to leaders of the Hawaiian community:
Uncle Charlie at Mo'olelo.
V.H. Takamine.
H.K. Trask at U of H.
do a search and find relevant web sites. IF you are serious.
If not, you are most emphatically not serious.
and don't even think of querying Serge King and his ilk on this. THEY think you reword and repackage Hawaiian culture, you are spreading the word, and no, they are doing more harm than good.
(not that they ever assumed to be assisting indigenous Polynesian cultures.)

[1stwahine]

tOLD YA HE WAS A kid! :rolleyes:

[kimo55]

Quote:

"I think you are very intellegent to be asking such questions! Good Luck!"

"tOLD YA HE WAS A kid!"


aunty, your insight and perception is surpassed only by your teaching and guidance. well done.

[newroots]

so therez no way someone can become hawaiian. even if their dedicated to the culture and look like one. sorry for all the dumb questions but. didnt those european people become hawaiian when the bought the island ni'ihau.

[cezanne]

I don't have a drop of Hawaiian blood in me but I'd like to think that I've got a Hawaiian heart. :)

[1stwahine]

Ok, now you making Auntie mad kid. Stop with the DUMB questions or the Menehune's will swim to GUAM and give you a WHACK WHACK on your head.

[kimo55]

I don't have a drop of Hawaiian blood in me but I'd like to think that I've got a Hawaiian heart. :)


doesn't make it so.
As opposed to what; a haole heart?
mexican heart?
Does this mean some Hawaiians somehow ended up with a haole heart?

This is another thing many kama'aina get tired of hearing;
So many people thinking they have assimilated the culture to the extent they now have a Hawaiian heart.
Where da hell ya get this transplant?
"I've got the aloha spirit. I really show it. I am Hawaiian at heart'
Where does this leave those that actually DO have a Hawaiian heart, Hawaiian koko?

"so therez no way someone can become hawaiian. even if their dedicated to the culture..."

I really don't think this could be attributed to Hawaiians; the concept that you are not proud of, or even acknowledge yer own bloodline, to the extent, you assume to take on another culture and assume to be a member of the race.
What exactly does this mean, when you say you have a Hawaiian heart, but yer not at all Hawaiian?

[kimo55]

"Good morning Kimo, remember this is a kid...so act accordingly and teach him well!"

"Ok, now you making Auntie mad kid. Stop with the DUMB questions or the Menehune's will swim to GUAM and give you a WHACK WHACK on your head."


oik, now, I hear a general murmer through the crowd; some of the board here are a little confused...

[cezanne]

I meant to have the freakin aloha spirit OK?! :D

[LikaNui]

oik, now, I hear a general murmer through the crowd; some of the board here are a little confused...

I agree, Kimo. Whoever the original poster is, they're obviously "trolling" just to get reactions. Answering people like that merely serves to make them continue, so my suggestion is for all of us here to either block that screen name or to simply ignore them. Soon enough he'll get bored and go somewhere else to get his kicks.

[kimo55]

I meant to have the freakin aloha spirit OK?! :D

ok. question: why not just claim that?
Why add "insult to injury" by claiming to own a major organ of another race, that again, has seen for too long, many aspects of their culture reworked, repackaged, appropriated and dispossessed?
Why have your own race's concept of natural "neighborliness" replaced with another concept of another culture and race?
Too often we see Non Hawaiians overuse the term: "aloha spirit" and add, in their written letters and notes, they end with "Much aloha, much aloha!"
This is one of the many things that has been conceptualized and crystalised by the HVCB and the "tourist authority" to sell the islands.
and something so many people casually toss out in conversation to appear Hawaiian at heart.


http://www.aaari.info/2002%20spring%20-%20remapping.htm

[1stwahine]

oik, now, I hear a general murmer through the crowd; some of the board here are a little confused...

Whatever you say Kimo...I am confused :confused: Rough time, I'm having but someone out there somewhere is having a more tough time. Have a great DAY EVERYONE! ;)

[Lei K]

People like this guy from Guam trying to turn themself Hawaiian DO exist.

Story:

About 2 years back now I was about to take my yearly trip back home to visit da' aina/ohana back in O'ahu. My husband couldn't go. He had just started a new job and had no vacation, nor could we risk the chance that he'd have no job when he came back if he took off with me :p I had a friend who had always been interested in where I came from and my culture (I'm part Native Hawaiian and from O'ahu) and she had money to tag along (I paid for her hotel stay and ALL activities). So I thought, okay, no harm in her going, right? So we went and things got really bad, really fast. Let me start off by saying this girl is a mix of German/Danish etc. racially and is about as pale as one can be. Since she knew so much previous to the trip due to my rambling on about Hawai'i and all things Hawai'i she acted like she knew EVERYTHING to everyone (this includes locals, not just other tourist), she thought that going to Paradise Cove's luau show somehow made her authority on ancient Hawaiian ritual, she couldn't stop gushing about how her spirit belongs in Hawai'i and that it's going to be her new home one day, and here's the worse part, SHE STARTED TO TRY TO TALK LOCAL PIDGIN! with accent and all :eek: !!! This is all within a 6 day stay! I was barely wanting to be around her by the end of the trip and probably mostly stayed by her side in fear of leaving her alone with her acting like that! So fast forward....

We get back to California and she's all of the sudden "Hawaiian" She talks all the "aloha spirit" and "Hawaiian heart" stuff and we argue and argue about it. She tells everyone, expert like, all about Hawai'i, basically don't bother asking me, she's knows just as much! It got really, really, bad. I contribute it to being the number 1 reason I can't stand being anywhere near her anymore. The last time I talked to her she was currently even trying to hang out in Hawai'i rooms online so she can land herself a "local" boy or "preferrably" part Hawaiian as to make herself closer to Hawai'i.

Other pet peeves of mine...
Many people in California aren't aware that Hawaiian is even a blood. They think Hawaiian means the same thing as saying "Californian". Or you get those I tell my racial mix to and they go, "OH, so you are Samoan?" and I'm like, "What? how'd you get that? I said Hawaiian" and they continue, "Yes, I heard you, so that makes you Samoan" :rolleyes: and I say, "Go look at your map, Samoa is a whole nother island" and I've actually argued with people that Samoa is an actual place!!! May you never come to the mainland and run across these sort of people. :mad:

Not that I have any issue with Samoan's or think that it's an insult, but I will not claim to be a blood I am not, ya know? As I find that to be the wrong thing to do.

[kylertz]

I am from North Dakota and I'm white with blonde hair so I would probably be considered a haole to most Hawaiians, but the reason I would want to leave the mainland is to leave this whole fucked up society. I hate the way of life here and I honestly wish I could live in Hawaii and not have any type of office or corporate job. But I know that the natives would see the way I look and be mad that Im there. I fully understand what they mean though. I would be really pissed off if stupid assholes that want nothing more than more money came and started destroying land that I have kept preserved for such a long time too. I just want a different life that isn't materialistic like it is here.
peace

[Palolo Joe]

But I know that the natives would see the way I look and be mad that Im there. I fully understand what they mean though. Not all locals will be mad... some, but not all. Having the right attitude and respect for the local culture will make it a lot easier for you.

[pzarquon]

And, depending on where you end up, you're going to find much of the same materialism, consumerism, corporate-ism here, anyway. We've got WalMart and the Gap, we've got dog-eat-dog commercial competition, we've got capitalists, socialists, racists, the whole mix. I have the quintessential office job, a cubicle and no nearby windows. (Haven't quite convinced the boss to let me telecommute via WiFi from Waikiki beach.)

To be sure, I think the people and the pace of Hawaii is remarkable, wonderful, and exactly why I fight to stay here, despite all the challenges. But it's always important to know that there are many sides to every place, and that the only pure paradise you're every going to find is the one in your head.

[kylertz]

yeah thats true. Its kind of sad. I knew there were other big businesses there and stuff but i was just mainly wishing for a slower relaxing pace of life. Plus like i said i live in North Dakota which should have never been occupied by people. I will always appreciate it b/c i was born here but it really sucks. Just a flat, windy, barren landscape. Not to mention the -30 degree winters with way too much snow. I wouldn't miss that at all. But most of the people are nice because its not too populated. But there are bigger and bigger corporate businesses moving in. But anyways back to Hawaii. It sure would be better to live there. thanks for ur input.

[newroots]

hello. yeah i get what your trying to say kimu. but i dont really agree on it. in guam there was some people on magellans ship that stayed. and they learned the language and had good ties with the people. i think if they stayed there for all their life. they would at one point consider themselves officially chamoru. as long as the chiefs and stuff say its okay. is that not possible for hawaiians? i dont think its just a superficial costume (as you say) on becoming a hawaiian. i just really really like the culture. and the people. my ties with the people on guam arent so good. thats why i'm so intereted in trying to be hawaiian. c'mon. i'm not like that danish/german chick from california. just another pacific islander from micronesia....... cant i be hawaiian , if i learn the culture and respect the people. i know i dont have dakine bloodline. so i'll never think i'm more hawaiian than anyone else. sorry for talking so much about 'me'. sorry. so is this possible or no? .... thanks for reading this. peacE

[kimo55]

yeah i get what your trying to say kimu. but i dont really agree on it.
cant i be hawaiian , if i learn the culture and respect the people. i know i dont have dakine bloodline. so i'll never think i'm more hawaiian than anyone else. sorry for talking so much about 'me'. sorry. so is this possible or no? .... thanks for reading this. peacE


well... gawd... where to I start?! or finish? No, you DON"T get what I am saying. You don't seem able to grasp the concept: Someone can NOT simply on a whim, or even after a few months of thinking hard about it, JUST become "Hawaiian". You don't become another member of a race or culture or bloodline or lineage or whatever, just because you want to feel an affinity for it.
I am curious; is this some kinda magic power your favorite comic book hero seems to have?
Cuz bruddah, in the real world it ain't possible. To any degree.
Even IF.. you were to show a little respect by capitalizing the word.

This is NOT an actual, real concept of yours: "on becoming a hawaiian"
Even after being told: "it ain't agonna happen, bwah. Not in this life or another..." you have a BIIIIG clue right in front of your nose, where you admit: "sorry for talking so much about 'me'. sorry. so is this possible or no?"

And your prime motive and background I must say doesn't speak well of you:
"my ties with the people on guam arent so good. thats why i'm so intereted in trying to be hawaiian."
Many would recommend you move on...
Try another island:
http://www.longisland.com/





and gottdammit, kneeruts, get my name right!

[1stwahine]

well...
and gottdammit, kneeruts, get my name right!

heheheheheh...yeah, his name is Kimo.

you may want to check out MWH.com too, get plenty microdots (nah, joke)

Oooooh....please, i'm sorry too. Nah, we one big ohana hea, all in the fun and local style of defending our island's people! ;)

[kimo55]

heheheheheh...yeah, his name is Kimo.



hehehe is NOW forbidden.

****

the kid knows my name.

[Lei K]

Wow Newroots, you don't give up. Understand by what I say I'm not trying to be mean but it's apparent that it's nearly impossible to get through to you.

My husband is of Irish ancestry and I love his ohana as if they have always been my own. I am into his Irish and Celtic culture because of my own love for it and to help out with my kids learning both sides of their ancestry. I don't like to be one sided. BUT as much as I love and have enveloped myself in his culture I will never "be" Irish or Celtic in any which way. I am my own mix of things of which I am VERY proud of and of which I also teach my keiki. For a very long time in my life my Portuguese father didn't teach us to be proud of what my mother is (Hawaiian/Chinese) and forced us after moving to the mainland to be "haole" which I will never understand. White people up here treated him like a second class citizen for being brown skinned and often just assumed he was Mexican as they don't seem to know the difference in California between one dark featured race and another. I was not even allowed to date another race but white! Believe it or not. I never understood his want to deny his culture and my mother's and turn us into something we weren't. I felt lost for many, many years until I was able to go get out of the house and afford to go back home to the 'aina regularly and rediscover who I was and what makes me so special. You need to reevaluate yourself and discover what makes you special and how beautiful it is to be what you are. Celebrate your culture, don't turn your back on it. Your ancestors are why you are living, they are in your blood and it's a wonderful thing. Don't disrespect that.

[1stwahine]

Thank you for sharing you beautiful thoughts about respecting and being proud of one's culture and heritage. Today, I get that chance. I go to Kapiolani Park and although I'll be promoting the products I sell, I'll be amongst fellow Filipinos as well as others from different cultures. All enjoying the foods, products and what makes the Philippines the pearl of the orient!

Mahalo once again and may all have a safe and wonderful weekend! Got to get ready. Today, proud to be a filipina!

Mahal kita (I love you) everyone!
Aunty Lynn
momthresoldiers@msn.com

[Miulang]

is that not possible for hawaiians? i dont think its just a superficial costume (as you say) on becoming a hawaiian. i just really really like the culture. and the people. my ties with the people on guam arent so good. thats why i'm so intereted in trying to be hawaiian. c'mon. cant i be hawaiian , if i learn the culture and respect the people. i know i dont have dakine bloodline. so is this possible or no?

First of all, Newroots, you need to make peace with the people around you. Examine why your ties with your people "aren't so good" and make amends. You will never be able to run away from being from the race you were born into. If you were born a Chamorro, you will always be a Chamorro, no matter where you eventually land. You should be proud of your culture and heritage.

You certainly can learn as much about the kanaka maoli as you want, but just learning about and respecting the kanaka maoli won't ever make you a "true Hawaiian". If you were born in Hawai'i (and not of Native Hawaiian ancestry) the closest you could come is to be called a "local" if you lived in Hawai'i for a generation or two, and even that would be a stretch since you don't seem to understand that you have to be born into a kanaka maoli family to be considered a Native Hawaiian. You can be hanai'd ("adopted" informally) but even that will never qualify you to be a true Hawaiian because you have no Hawaiian ancestors.

Nice try.

Miulang

[cezanne]

Maybe that's what he's asking... what does it take to become a "local" in Hawaii? I dunno... we're beating a dead horse here.

[newroots]

alright. now , i really get it haha. thanks for all your help people. ssssee ya laters.

[Royce]

aloha. sorry i'm replying so late. i'm 16 , not 9-12 lol. for a kanaka , i thought since , the hawaiian culture and bloodline was kind of dying , a person can become one. but your right , if you dont have the blood than you cant , by definition , become a 'kanaka'. for a true hawaiian. i dont really know any hawaiians. i only know one. thats why i was asking what is a true hawaiian. heres a more clear question. if someone learns hawaiian culture , looks hawaiian , speaks the language , and gets along wid em good , can they call themselves a 'hawaiian'?
I just registered in HawaiiThreads tho I've been lurking for a long time. I have debated leaving this thread alone since it's been inactive for over two months, but I thought I should either drop my $.02 in or forever lurk and not admit my origins since I have this feeling it's been "tainted" somewhat.

I'm not originally from Hawaii but have been here for two decades as of this coming fall. I am not schooled in the Hawaii system so don't have a good grasp of "Hawaiiana" (my kids have to teach me basics), but I think I know more from 20 years' exposure here than if I was just wishing to be here from 3,800 miles away. I was born and raised on Guam tho I am not Chamorro-- my father was from Kona, my mother from the PI, my Guam origins are courtesy of my father's employment with the federal government in the early 50's ( I always wondered growing up why my siblings and I were the only ones in the neighborhood who used words like bambai and kaukau-- tanks for explaining Dad...).

Having said that, let me say Newroots that I know where you're coming from with your line of questions. Your concept of "becoming Hawaiian" is totally skewed because of the Guam concept of "becoming Chamorro". They're not the same, nowhere near, and personally I subscribe to the belief that there are no real Chamorros left because of that very concept. I can elaborate on the conceptual difference if you really are confused but I can see that, and totally understand why, several people's attempts to do so fail because they cannot understand your train of thought here.

I am not nearly as unqualified to know the Chamorro side of things. Tho not one by blood, my wife is Chamorro. I know the customs and traditions, speak the language, and Chamorros can't even tell I'm not "one of them" unless I admit it. Does that make me Chamorro? Someone had pointed out that being Hawaiian is not the same as being "Californian". That's exactly the way your and the common definition of being Chamorro has become... like being a Californian. Yet in the same breath, on Guam we attempt to revere that Chamorro-ness in the same sacred way Hawaiian is here... but it can't be done because there's no frame of reference, people on Guam can't even prove significant bloodline. If that's how Guam wants to define its Chamorros that's fine, I'm Chamorro too. But let's understand that what Guam decides to use as qualifying criteria to be called that isn't the same criteria Hawaii uses, or anyone else uses to define who they are.

[newroots]

thats really offensive. you got it all wrong. your not chamorro , you know why... cuz you dont got ancestors haahahaha... it was kinda hard , to understand the whole ancestral thing but i get it now. but you dont get it bro. your wife , if not chamorro by blood , than chamorro by ancestry , if not chamorru by ancestry.. than shes not chamorru.

[kimo55]

I can elaborate on the conceptual difference if you really are confused but I can see that several people's attempts to do so fail because they cannot understand your train of thought here.



Or newroots cannot understand others'.